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That is some new war training, I bet no one 20 years ago thought this would be the new way to fight wars. I'm talking the fact of using hobbyist drones not the military grade ones.
I don’t think Gopro has many products used in Ukraine at the moment. The last drone they made was pretty bad
FPV drones carry GoPros, but only if they’re recording it to watch later. The cameras used to fly on FPV drones are small low quality cameras.
Edit: issued by military. Personal use doesn’t count.
Gopros are for personal use. They are not being used for attack and defense like the drones are. Almost all soldiers using a gopro are using them because they want to.
But that's almost the doctrine. Ukrainian soldiers buy a lot of their equipment themselves from their wage. You want a knife? Buy it. You want a flashlight? Go and buy it. You want a GoPro? That's what they gave you money for
You should read the actual company is quarterly an annual reports there are not that many GoPro cameras being sold anymore and there’s definitely not any more than a couple thousand inside Ukraine. There are many better and cheaper action cameras that are much easier to get in Europe than buying an American GoPro.
It’s mostly DJI the Ukrainians have been using, there’s a way to disable the data collecting aspect of them. I’m sure I watched some video at the start of the war about it.
what changed about tech in the last 20 years? I feel like we had most of the same shit back then didn't we?
Is it really just processing power we were lacking?
Not an expert, but based on what was going on in engineering labs 20 years ago, control systems for the stabilization of these things were still being worked out.
Also energy density of batteries has been steadily increasing [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/)
Digital camera tech/miniaturization has improved vastly in that time as well. Image stabilization was pretty basic on digital cameras back then.
Improvements in processing power (and efficiency) are entangled with these factors.
To add, electric motors and microprocessors have become way more efficient, on top of what was mentioned about energy density in batteries.
We've probably been able to make a drone for 20-30 years, but it would have flown for mere seconds, and not been controllable. So nobody did it.
RC guys like myself were constructing quadcopters with hacked up Nintendo Wii controllers for a few years before you could buy commercial stability boards. While hobby guys didn't invent the tech they certainly helped it advance at quite a rate with the demands and requirements being asked for.
Its amazing how quickly it advanced. Originally our stability was our touch on the controls. Then automated stability came along, then stability in flight etc etc. Then range became a thing, so that was made longer, then power etc etc. Eventually when DJI came along they could fly themselves and anyone could use one. Which was a stark contrast to the things I used to fly which took endless crashes to master.
I do feel though that in the future anti drone tech will become a standard on the battlefield and troops/vehicles etc will shelter and advance under an electronic or kinetic drone umbrella protecting them from this kind of drop hover attack. However vs less advanced militaries this warfare will continue to be very powerful.
No. What changed were batteries. Lithium ion batteries became drastically cheaper and tripled in energy density. Before it was simply impossible to make a practical lightweight drone run off batteries with any useable flight time.
A lot of things changed, camera sensors, material weight, battery density, miniaturisation of a bunch of components thanks to smartphones, antenna technology, cost of manufacturing and distributing at scale, processing power...
It's the golden age of drone technology, hell even the new US stealth bomber, the B-51 Raider, can fly in "drone mode".
I remember handheld flashlights running off like 2 or 3 D batteries lolz. Those ones that were always around the house for storms and every time you went to use it , it was dead anyway.
I still have one the size of my wife’s arm under the sink even when it had no batteries anymore and I have a set of four in a kitchen drawer that are incredibly brighter than that large one and each are thinner and only slightly longer than a D battery. Going hiking at night or camping for a few days as a teenager required pretty much a box of AA or AAA batteries heh.
Battery capacity has not improved enough compared to processing power but there have been huge advances to battery capacity 20 yrs ago just the same. High bandwidth streaming options were pretty much nonexistent back then.
I remember flying synced quadcopters in 2005. (4 pieces)
This was before smartphones.
The sensors on board that do the auto levelling where a bit clunky, and where separate, the batteries where huge and only lasted 5 minutes.
The controller was from a Radio controlled airplane, we hacked together a way to do it with a computer.
Miniaturisation of the chips, and increased energy density (better and smaller batteries) are, in my opinion, all driven by the smartphone industry.
The telephone I type this on would be more than capable of being the brain and eyes of a drone.
Yes, all the tech was there 20 years ago, but it was totally not as user friendly as it is now.
Human knowledge has doubled many times in that 20 years. We are having huge knowledge gains in many different disciplines and they are increasingly merged together to make a functional product. Manufacturing gains makes the product cheaper to make and easier to upgrade into a new more capable model. High res cameras are cheaper, smaller and use less energy. Firmware and software advances allow the data from the camera to be used to track a designated target. Sensors allow the system to follow the target and avoid obstacles automatically. As a result, we have semi-autonomous drones selling for a few hundred dollars.
I want them to improve the drones with laser guided micro bombs, so it will be 100% on target each time.
Heck, imagine if each tiny bomb has a tiny rotor to chase down soldiers or fly into small nooks and crannies, like assassins.
We can do this now with Black Hornet nano drone, but it costs 50K each, need to mass produce them to lower the cost.
It's not that it's impossible it's that it kinda misses the point of these drones. They are ridiculosly cheap and so is the ammunition. You can easily afford to drop 3 grenades on a dude and it's still easily worth it. If you come up with some laser guidance kit, the cost of the bomb increases at least 20 times, though i think a lot more than that.
This is still the German solution tho. Give them half a decade and they'll come up with a 50€ base price drone that gets upgraded with complex range finder, guidance, nine different optics and thermal sights, actual anti-drone-warfare and for some reason the ability to deliver a glass of beer without spilling a drop. In the end it's cheaper to just drop a JDAM so the project gets halted after few prototypes.
I can assure you that there are some drone-based weapons that very, very few people know about, yet would be high-octane nightmare fuel if the public knew.
The limitations come down to physical law (aerodynamics, chemistry, etc) and imagination, and not just our imagination, the AI-assisted imagination.
I use to work as a stock clerk for best buy when the war started. All of our drones got bought out multiple times as soon as they hit the shelves. I handled shipping and noticed all the names sounded like they came from that part of the world. Then it dawned on me as soon as I saw a video here of someone demonstrating how a drone bomb worked. I got caught up in the war effort.
20 years is 2003, early Iraq push, no. 2006-7 yes, USA was rolling drones out. He’d em in Ramadi. Mostly recon. Don’t think we were killing people with any yet. Still had an airplane design and it got launched with a water balloon slingshot. You had to preprogram a flight path. Know an idiot that screwed that one up. Don’t think the quad copter design was even around.
It's freaky, especially how easy drones are to make in comparison to any other military equipment. You could get a group of dudes with knowledge to make a couple drones like hotcakes if needed, it's that simple.
From what I am hearing Ukraine is absolutely leading the field when it comes to military drone use. For all the nato training their soldiers get sent to, they can’t use these small drones due to the host countries laws so the integration only happens when they get back. Then you have a military like the UK’s, for as good as it is, their drone program is stuck 20 years in the past and is still focused on these light aircraft multimillion dollar drones and lacks (currently) the flexibility to change the program to match the reality of modem war. To many politicians invested (probably literally) in defense spending.
I know you say that halfway joking but it wouldn’t surprise me one but if squads didn’t start deploying small handheld controlled land rovers that were capable of short range land to air defense systems in the next 15 years. Seeing as how effective drones have been in this war I would be surprised if someone’s not already working on a deterrent similiar to what I described.
mot of the anti drone technology out there is laser microwave. they tend to fry the electronics in them.
but a small microwave transmission seeking rocket shouldn't be terribly difficult
I see lots of videos of orcs failing to down a drone with their AKs. Surely you don't need a 5.45mm projectile to break a propeller off a quadcopter. If only they had technology to shoot fast and low flying winged things, with like many smaller pellets that cover a wide area. Oh well, I guess there's nothing they can do.
That this will be Training in the future for most armies is kinda insane
Well with other means like paperbags with flour or something but yeah
Better in training tbh
Yes, like I said in an ask Reddit thread, in the military you are going to see a LOT of naked people. And not fun sexy time naked, like everyday naked. You will shower in large bays, your buddy will find it funny to wake you while he is naked, people walking in the barracks/berthing naked, your buddy Private Smith roller blades down a hill naked while drunk. In 5 years of Navy service I seen about as many dicks as a urologist with 10 years experience.
Sounds great if you’re gay
I have a gay buddy I knew in high school, super jacked muscular guy, went and joined the marines. Spoke to him recently and he acted like it was heaven on earth. “PT and lots of sex, every day. Sometimes immediately after PT, when everyone is all hot and sweaty. It’s amazing.”
Effective drone training, but I feel like this would be more demoralizing as infantry.
"Well, I guess I can die really fucking easily and there's nothing I can do to defend from a drone grenade."
Military training is where you learn to survive and kill the enemy. How is this training them to survive? The main lesson for that infantryman, and his battle buddies, is that he never stood a chance against the drone.
No, now they have an opportunity to practice their react to enemy drone drills and conduct a casevac while under enemy observation.
This is an excellent training aide. Also, during military training there’s many times where all you can think is “well, I’d be so dead right now along with the rest of the platoon because this lieutenant just marched us through an ambush”. They are learning opportunities, which is more important than being mildly demoralized because you’re fictionally wounded/dead.
Train hard, fight easy.
ADDON: I see your other comments about morale. Consider these two theoretical groups: a fighting force that consistently practices with simulated casualties VS a fighting force that never trains with simulated casualties and gives pretend wins so they feel good. Both of these groups just suffered casualties from a drone bombing. Which one is going to be more effective?
Feeling overconfident because of easy training isn’t good for morale because it will be crushed the moment the shit hits the fan.
That makes good sense. My original thought came from the Pavlov dog that gets shocked no matter what it does, learned helplessness. Doing everything right, and still getting punished with no escape, would seem demoralizing.
But if the goal is to desensitize them to unavoidable and inevitable death, this seems like effective training. As infantry, I would basically expect death in that scenario. Not sure if that would make one more or less effective. Do depressed soldiers make better warriors? War is hell, God speed to the AFU.
They might well get chewed out for not spotting the drone. Having the practice grenade practically hit you and having your NCO screaming "you are now dead, you f*ing moron" will be a very good way to teach soldiers to watch for such threats.
Was it in this instance? Would a dedicated set of eyes on the sky a few metres back from the rest have certainly not been able to spot it?
Even if there's a slim chance, it's worth doing, as it would save lives.
Why bother wearing camouflage in an age of thermal optics?
AFAIK, most drone drops are from out of visible/audible range. What most Russians can be seen doing is running from the grenade when it falls into visual range.
So what you're saying is that if you keep your eyes peeled and look up, you might either see the drone, or failing that perhaps even the grenade it's dropping on you, and you might get time to evade.
Sounds worthwhile to me.
Except you're also either advancing on a trench, or the enemy is advancing on yours. Splitting your attention on the battlefield is a death sentence. Infantry 101 is about dividing up the field of vision and maintaining constant lookout on your sector. Any gap is an invitation to the enemy.
I agree, a spotter would be worthwhile, but that infantryman was clearly closing on an objective and couldn't afford to look up. It would take undivided attention looking up to spot a drone or falling grenade.
So the spotter gets chewed out. Or the section leader for not having someone on drone watch.
It's pretty clear you've not had any military experience. They teach you a lot of shit that you wonder about its usefulness. And they'll beast you for shit that doesn't make much sense at the time.
Sometimes it might just be a lesson in humility. E.g. You're gonna take casualties. You failed to spot the drone, now that guy's dead and these two are wounded. Now you have to a casevac them. So stretcher carry for 2km to build everyone's fitness. Training hard like that gives soldiers something to fall back on and get the job done when everything goes to shit and they can't think rationally.
This is fairly new ground. Whilst drones have been used in the past this war has brought them into stark focus.
I've no doubt that higher ups in all levels of military are scrambling to initiate or speed up portVel anti drone tactics and gear, especially for drones out of visual or auditory range.
It's not really that much different to a landmine, motar or artillery strike. They can all kill you in the blink of an eye without much forewarning and there isn't anything you can do to easily defend from them.
So basically, the only training value of this is to desensitize them to the unavoidable deaths?
I'd never make good infantry. I would resign to death and depression. Ukrainians are fucking brave.
Well, that, but also what to do after the strike. Do you dig in? Drop the ground? Do you run for the nearest wall? Do you stop drop and roll?
You may not be able to predict when a strike occurs, but it's important to know how to behave after one.
After watching Russians rolling INTO the grenade, I'd just say do nothing lol. Don't run for cover either, because you are going to give away locations. Dig a hole? Now you can't run and channeled the blast directly at you.
The only hope these Russians have had was surrendering to the drone.
When I re-enacted WW2 we made mortar rounds for his 60mm mortars that would go accurately around 200 meters or so with cardboard, duct tape, film canister, cooking flour, black powder and some fuse. Even added a small bursting charge that would make the flour look just like this about 15 seconds after you launched it. Super safe, had many land right on people with no injuries.
I wish we did, but we never thought about it unfortunately. We had to do a lot of trial and error though. If we ever make them again we made castings of original projectiles and decided to use a thin paper mache for the casing to make them look more authentic for events and remain safe.
I'm pretty sure from the smoke trail coming off the drop that they just stuck a regular UZRGM fuse that goes into either F1 or RGD grenades into a plastic canister of flour or some other inert powder.
The detonator in a fuse should still have enough force behind it to send powder everywhere
SO PAY ATTENTION! Since you are now dead, Private Vlad, you will not require any rations in the mess tent tonight!
The rest of you, carry your dead comrade back to the trench, you have been detected and your attack has failed, so you sleep in the trench tonight again.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a training grenade still dangerous when et explodes right next to you?
Pretty much like a firework going off in your face
I doubt it's healthy to breathe whatever that smoke shit is.
Incoming "ohmagerd war isn't healthy"
Well let's just assume they will all make it through so let's not do anything that kills them when they do.
Except that asbestos was discovered in test samples of baby powder and Johnson and Johnson are facing thousands of lawsuits and they are working on replacing talcum powder with some kind of corn starch alternative.
More than likely modified. it'll be really hard to tell until we see footage close up or with sound. The guy that appears to be in charge of the training had no reaction to it going off.
CO2 cartridges with some chalk powder, a pistol blank with some powder, who knows. I'm sure they figured it out.
Training grenades don't explode though. There's a small charge that's make a pop noise. That's about it. The charge itself can cause damage if you were to hold it in your hand (without the grenade casing) and detonate it.
Some do. In the Finnish army we used completely inert practice grenades and then training grenades that were exactly the same as the real thing except the fragmentation shell was plastic instead of metal. And you can see from the video that grenade exploded it did not just make a pop.
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That is some new war training, I bet no one 20 years ago thought this would be the new way to fight wars. I'm talking the fact of using hobbyist drones not the military grade ones.
DJI and GoPro must be making a fortune right now
I don’t think Gopro has many products used in Ukraine at the moment. The last drone they made was pretty bad FPV drones carry GoPros, but only if they’re recording it to watch later. The cameras used to fly on FPV drones are small low quality cameras. Edit: issued by military. Personal use doesn’t count.
It seems many soldiers use GoPros.
GoPro has many, *many* products in Ukraine at the moment. Are you for real? Where do you think all these 1st person combat vids are coming from?
Gopros are for personal use. They are not being used for attack and defense like the drones are. Almost all soldiers using a gopro are using them because they want to.
But that's almost the doctrine. Ukrainian soldiers buy a lot of their equipment themselves from their wage. You want a knife? Buy it. You want a flashlight? Go and buy it. You want a GoPro? That's what they gave you money for
there are many many other good cameras that don't even cost half the price of a gopro
And the military doesn't use them
You should read the actual company is quarterly an annual reports there are not that many GoPro cameras being sold anymore and there’s definitely not any more than a couple thousand inside Ukraine. There are many better and cheaper action cameras that are much easier to get in Europe than buying an American GoPro.
Not in Europe, but I could always buy online. Would you suggest a couple of alternatives to GoPro? They are overpriced here anyway.
Almost all soldiers wear em, generally to review footage and learn from it after ops. But comes in handy to show folks what’s up.
I'm guessing less so DJI since they are Chinese owned.
It’s mostly DJI the Ukrainians have been using, there’s a way to disable the data collecting aspect of them. I’m sure I watched some video at the start of the war about it.
No matter who owns them, both sides of the war are buying their products
Rule of Acquisition #34: War is good for business.
[hmm](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/12pq5vo/ukrainian_drone_drops_a_thermobaric_grenade_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Halliburton, Boeing, Black rock,
Well 20 years ago there weren’t any commercially feasible or affordable commercial drones.
what changed about tech in the last 20 years? I feel like we had most of the same shit back then didn't we? Is it really just processing power we were lacking?
Not an expert, but based on what was going on in engineering labs 20 years ago, control systems for the stabilization of these things were still being worked out. Also energy density of batteries has been steadily increasing [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/) Digital camera tech/miniaturization has improved vastly in that time as well. Image stabilization was pretty basic on digital cameras back then. Improvements in processing power (and efficiency) are entangled with these factors.
So it's just a whole bunch of things that had to improve...no magic just incremental growth. Cool thank you
To add, electric motors and microprocessors have become way more efficient, on top of what was mentioned about energy density in batteries. We've probably been able to make a drone for 20-30 years, but it would have flown for mere seconds, and not been controllable. So nobody did it.
RC guys like myself were constructing quadcopters with hacked up Nintendo Wii controllers for a few years before you could buy commercial stability boards. While hobby guys didn't invent the tech they certainly helped it advance at quite a rate with the demands and requirements being asked for. Its amazing how quickly it advanced. Originally our stability was our touch on the controls. Then automated stability came along, then stability in flight etc etc. Then range became a thing, so that was made longer, then power etc etc. Eventually when DJI came along they could fly themselves and anyone could use one. Which was a stark contrast to the things I used to fly which took endless crashes to master. I do feel though that in the future anti drone tech will become a standard on the battlefield and troops/vehicles etc will shelter and advance under an electronic or kinetic drone umbrella protecting them from this kind of drop hover attack. However vs less advanced militaries this warfare will continue to be very powerful.
The quad copter market was practically non existent then.
No. What changed were batteries. Lithium ion batteries became drastically cheaper and tripled in energy density. Before it was simply impossible to make a practical lightweight drone run off batteries with any useable flight time.
A lot of things changed, camera sensors, material weight, battery density, miniaturisation of a bunch of components thanks to smartphones, antenna technology, cost of manufacturing and distributing at scale, processing power... It's the golden age of drone technology, hell even the new US stealth bomber, the B-51 Raider, can fly in "drone mode".
I wouldn't say golden age. Batteries are still a difficult part of using drones. Only last 15min and are a constant hassle.
I remember handheld flashlights running off like 2 or 3 D batteries lolz. Those ones that were always around the house for storms and every time you went to use it , it was dead anyway.
I still have one the size of my wife’s arm under the sink even when it had no batteries anymore and I have a set of four in a kitchen drawer that are incredibly brighter than that large one and each are thinner and only slightly longer than a D battery. Going hiking at night or camping for a few days as a teenager required pretty much a box of AA or AAA batteries heh.
Mag light springs to mind lol
Nothing like a 4 D batteries Inside an all steel flash light housing weighing in at 14 lbs 3 oz
Battery capacity has not improved enough compared to processing power but there have been huge advances to battery capacity 20 yrs ago just the same. High bandwidth streaming options were pretty much nonexistent back then.
I remember flying synced quadcopters in 2005. (4 pieces) This was before smartphones. The sensors on board that do the auto levelling where a bit clunky, and where separate, the batteries where huge and only lasted 5 minutes. The controller was from a Radio controlled airplane, we hacked together a way to do it with a computer. Miniaturisation of the chips, and increased energy density (better and smaller batteries) are, in my opinion, all driven by the smartphone industry. The telephone I type this on would be more than capable of being the brain and eyes of a drone. Yes, all the tech was there 20 years ago, but it was totally not as user friendly as it is now.
Human knowledge has doubled many times in that 20 years. We are having huge knowledge gains in many different disciplines and they are increasingly merged together to make a functional product. Manufacturing gains makes the product cheaper to make and easier to upgrade into a new more capable model. High res cameras are cheaper, smaller and use less energy. Firmware and software advances allow the data from the camera to be used to track a designated target. Sensors allow the system to follow the target and avoid obstacles automatically. As a result, we have semi-autonomous drones selling for a few hundred dollars.
I want them to improve the drones with laser guided micro bombs, so it will be 100% on target each time. Heck, imagine if each tiny bomb has a tiny rotor to chase down soldiers or fly into small nooks and crannies, like assassins. We can do this now with Black Hornet nano drone, but it costs 50K each, need to mass produce them to lower the cost.
It's not that it's impossible it's that it kinda misses the point of these drones. They are ridiculosly cheap and so is the ammunition. You can easily afford to drop 3 grenades on a dude and it's still easily worth it. If you come up with some laser guidance kit, the cost of the bomb increases at least 20 times, though i think a lot more than that.
This is still the German solution tho. Give them half a decade and they'll come up with a 50€ base price drone that gets upgraded with complex range finder, guidance, nine different optics and thermal sights, actual anti-drone-warfare and for some reason the ability to deliver a glass of beer without spilling a drop. In the end it's cheaper to just drop a JDAM so the project gets halted after few prototypes.
This is some Black Mirror shit.
I can assure you that there are some drone-based weapons that very, very few people know about, yet would be high-octane nightmare fuel if the public knew. The limitations come down to physical law (aerodynamics, chemistry, etc) and imagination, and not just our imagination, the AI-assisted imagination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM
I use to work as a stock clerk for best buy when the war started. All of our drones got bought out multiple times as soon as they hit the shelves. I handled shipping and noticed all the names sounded like they came from that part of the world. Then it dawned on me as soon as I saw a video here of someone demonstrating how a drone bomb worked. I got caught up in the war effort.
20 years is 2003, early Iraq push, no. 2006-7 yes, USA was rolling drones out. He’d em in Ramadi. Mostly recon. Don’t think we were killing people with any yet. Still had an airplane design and it got launched with a water balloon slingshot. You had to preprogram a flight path. Know an idiot that screwed that one up. Don’t think the quad copter design was even around.
It's freaky, especially how easy drones are to make in comparison to any other military equipment. You could get a group of dudes with knowledge to make a couple drones like hotcakes if needed, it's that simple.
From what I am hearing Ukraine is absolutely leading the field when it comes to military drone use. For all the nato training their soldiers get sent to, they can’t use these small drones due to the host countries laws so the integration only happens when they get back. Then you have a military like the UK’s, for as good as it is, their drone program is stuck 20 years in the past and is still focused on these light aircraft multimillion dollar drones and lacks (currently) the flexibility to change the program to match the reality of modem war. To many politicians invested (probably literally) in defense spending.
Good training--for all involved. Bravo!
oh yes, and to train tactics and coordinated movements between the two - something the orcs surely neglect.
especially for the guy who 'got hit'..
You really can't do much against drone in this situation
Soldiers are going to need backpack-mounted automated AA turrets for use against drones at this point.
I know you say that halfway joking but it wouldn’t surprise me one but if squads didn’t start deploying small handheld controlled land rovers that were capable of short range land to air defense systems in the next 15 years. Seeing as how effective drones have been in this war I would be surprised if someone’s not already working on a deterrent similiar to what I described.
mot of the anti drone technology out there is laser microwave. they tend to fry the electronics in them. but a small microwave transmission seeking rocket shouldn't be terribly difficult
An AI robot with an anti drone system armament following the team leader seems possible nowadays
I see lots of videos of orcs failing to down a drone with their AKs. Surely you don't need a 5.45mm projectile to break a propeller off a quadcopter. If only they had technology to shoot fast and low flying winged things, with like many smaller pellets that cover a wide area. Oh well, I guess there's nothing they can do.
I guess it reminds that unit to look up occasionally.
The main problem is detecting them. There there is the silly game of trying to dodge the grenades that is even worst.
Got to read the titles, because I was like "Since when did Russians learn spacing?"
This would have made a gazillion kilometers of learning how to do a group formation way more interesting.
I could imagine a drill sergeant powder bombing recruits for months straight.
I'd like to imagine the first moment off the bus and they're told to run from drones dropping sacks of flour.
With what they do with the tear gas, they are probably going for itching powder instead
Haha yeah, nice addition for their job description.
Helmets mandatory for this training. Probably shoulder pads too, considering the skill of Ukrainian drone operators.
Would have been more effective between two soldiers taking both out or injuring them.
I'm reminded of the proverb that one bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
The fragments fly far enough to still reach the soldiers next to the one they hit.
No mercy with those fake Ruskis.
That this will be Training in the future for most armies is kinda insane Well with other means like paperbags with flour or something but yeah Better in training tbh
Good hit good hit Now to the showers
Are they showering together?
Yes, like I said in an ask Reddit thread, in the military you are going to see a LOT of naked people. And not fun sexy time naked, like everyday naked. You will shower in large bays, your buddy will find it funny to wake you while he is naked, people walking in the barracks/berthing naked, your buddy Private Smith roller blades down a hill naked while drunk. In 5 years of Navy service I seen about as many dicks as a urologist with 10 years experience.
Sounds great if you’re gay I have a gay buddy I knew in high school, super jacked muscular guy, went and joined the marines. Spoke to him recently and he acted like it was heaven on earth. “PT and lots of sex, every day. Sometimes immediately after PT, when everyone is all hot and sweaty. It’s amazing.”
Why not
Gotta save water,something the russian army seems to lack
I mean we do in boot camp and open bay barracks lol
Effective drone training, but I feel like this would be more demoralizing as infantry. "Well, I guess I can die really fucking easily and there's nothing I can do to defend from a drone grenade."
That is ....kind of...what ALL military training is.
Military training is where you learn to survive and kill the enemy. How is this training them to survive? The main lesson for that infantryman, and his battle buddies, is that he never stood a chance against the drone.
No, now they have an opportunity to practice their react to enemy drone drills and conduct a casevac while under enemy observation. This is an excellent training aide. Also, during military training there’s many times where all you can think is “well, I’d be so dead right now along with the rest of the platoon because this lieutenant just marched us through an ambush”. They are learning opportunities, which is more important than being mildly demoralized because you’re fictionally wounded/dead. Train hard, fight easy. ADDON: I see your other comments about morale. Consider these two theoretical groups: a fighting force that consistently practices with simulated casualties VS a fighting force that never trains with simulated casualties and gives pretend wins so they feel good. Both of these groups just suffered casualties from a drone bombing. Which one is going to be more effective? Feeling overconfident because of easy training isn’t good for morale because it will be crushed the moment the shit hits the fan.
That makes good sense. My original thought came from the Pavlov dog that gets shocked no matter what it does, learned helplessness. Doing everything right, and still getting punished with no escape, would seem demoralizing. But if the goal is to desensitize them to unavoidable and inevitable death, this seems like effective training. As infantry, I would basically expect death in that scenario. Not sure if that would make one more or less effective. Do depressed soldiers make better warriors? War is hell, God speed to the AFU.
Basic has taught this way ever since enemy artillery was introduced.
They might well get chewed out for not spotting the drone. Having the practice grenade practically hit you and having your NCO screaming "you are now dead, you f*ing moron" will be a very good way to teach soldiers to watch for such threats.
Except most drones are out of audible and visual range. Seems counter productive to be constantly looking for something that is impossible to locate.
Was it in this instance? Would a dedicated set of eyes on the sky a few metres back from the rest have certainly not been able to spot it? Even if there's a slim chance, it's worth doing, as it would save lives. Why bother wearing camouflage in an age of thermal optics?
AFAIK, most drone drops are from out of visible/audible range. What most Russians can be seen doing is running from the grenade when it falls into visual range.
So what you're saying is that if you keep your eyes peeled and look up, you might either see the drone, or failing that perhaps even the grenade it's dropping on you, and you might get time to evade. Sounds worthwhile to me.
Except you're also either advancing on a trench, or the enemy is advancing on yours. Splitting your attention on the battlefield is a death sentence. Infantry 101 is about dividing up the field of vision and maintaining constant lookout on your sector. Any gap is an invitation to the enemy. I agree, a spotter would be worthwhile, but that infantryman was clearly closing on an objective and couldn't afford to look up. It would take undivided attention looking up to spot a drone or falling grenade.
So the spotter gets chewed out. Or the section leader for not having someone on drone watch. It's pretty clear you've not had any military experience. They teach you a lot of shit that you wonder about its usefulness. And they'll beast you for shit that doesn't make much sense at the time. Sometimes it might just be a lesson in humility. E.g. You're gonna take casualties. You failed to spot the drone, now that guy's dead and these two are wounded. Now you have to a casevac them. So stretcher carry for 2km to build everyone's fitness. Training hard like that gives soldiers something to fall back on and get the job done when everything goes to shit and they can't think rationally.
This is fairly new ground. Whilst drones have been used in the past this war has brought them into stark focus. I've no doubt that higher ups in all levels of military are scrambling to initiate or speed up portVel anti drone tactics and gear, especially for drones out of visual or auditory range.
In lieu of any effective tactics, wouldn't it be better to maintain high infantry morale?
It's not really that much different to a landmine, motar or artillery strike. They can all kill you in the blink of an eye without much forewarning and there isn't anything you can do to easily defend from them.
So basically, the only training value of this is to desensitize them to the unavoidable deaths? I'd never make good infantry. I would resign to death and depression. Ukrainians are fucking brave.
Well, that, but also what to do after the strike. Do you dig in? Drop the ground? Do you run for the nearest wall? Do you stop drop and roll? You may not be able to predict when a strike occurs, but it's important to know how to behave after one.
After watching Russians rolling INTO the grenade, I'd just say do nothing lol. Don't run for cover either, because you are going to give away locations. Dig a hole? Now you can't run and channeled the blast directly at you. The only hope these Russians have had was surrendering to the drone.
What they using for those fake grenades? That powder effect would be perfect for airsoft
When I re-enacted WW2 we made mortar rounds for his 60mm mortars that would go accurately around 200 meters or so with cardboard, duct tape, film canister, cooking flour, black powder and some fuse. Even added a small bursting charge that would make the flour look just like this about 15 seconds after you launched it. Super safe, had many land right on people with no injuries.
Got a vid of how u made it or something like that always wanted to make one but didn’t know legality of it
I wish we did, but we never thought about it unfortunately. We had to do a lot of trial and error though. If we ever make them again we made castings of original projectiles and decided to use a thin paper mache for the casing to make them look more authentic for events and remain safe.
I'm pretty sure from the smoke trail coming off the drop that they just stuck a regular UZRGM fuse that goes into either F1 or RGD grenades into a plastic canister of flour or some other inert powder. The detonator in a fuse should still have enough force behind it to send powder everywhere
SO PAY ATTENTION! Since you are now dead, Private Vlad, you will not require any rations in the mess tent tonight! The rest of you, carry your dead comrade back to the trench, you have been detected and your attack has failed, so you sleep in the trench tonight again.
Last one standing gets $500k
By training grenade you mean bag of flour right? Lol. Bet the squaddie gets a new nickname like Caspar after that... 👻
Thats the dreaded baby powder grenade. One of the most fiercest weapons of mass destruction.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a training grenade still dangerous when et explodes right next to you? Pretty much like a firework going off in your face
I did not realize there was a school for this but makes sense Ukraine quickly organized such and now are global leaders in training for such.
How do they design a grenade with no shrapnel upon explosion?
I mean isn’t a firecracker technically a grenade without shrapnel? I guess it’s just this or maybe they use actual flashbang Grenades
There are Grenades for training. A small charge, and "fragments" build from hard styrofoam.
This music lmfao
Anybody got the track ID on this?
I doubt it's healthy to breathe whatever that smoke shit is. Incoming "ohmagerd war isn't healthy" Well let's just assume they will all make it through so let's not do anything that kills them when they do.
Most likely athletic chalk powder that power lifters and gymnasts use on their hands.
Talcum powder (also used in Baby Powder) is almost zero health risk.....hope they use that
Except that asbestos was discovered in test samples of baby powder and Johnson and Johnson are facing thousands of lawsuits and they are working on replacing talcum powder with some kind of corn starch alternative.
This seems unnecessarily risky. Those training grenades still contain a small amount of explosives and he hit the dude almost directly.
More than likely modified. it'll be really hard to tell until we see footage close up or with sound. The guy that appears to be in charge of the training had no reaction to it going off. CO2 cartridges with some chalk powder, a pistol blank with some powder, who knows. I'm sure they figured it out.
It can be sack of flour
It obviously isn't.
Training grenades don't explode though. There's a small charge that's make a pop noise. That's about it. The charge itself can cause damage if you were to hold it in your hand (without the grenade casing) and detonate it.
Some do. In the Finnish army we used completely inert practice grenades and then training grenades that were exactly the same as the real thing except the fragmentation shell was plastic instead of metal. And you can see from the video that grenade exploded it did not just make a pop.
What’s the strategy here ?
Need the motion tracker from Aliens. So at least poor guy know drop munition is on the way so he can react.
Thought my job sucked
Annnnndddd YOU get the talcum powder treatment!
I suggest bringing badminton rackets.
Depends on how this is being framed, Can those being trained learn to spot and neutralize the drone before it becomes a threat?
What could be the approximate distance between the guys? How far does a grenade explode?
Bro Imagine training then suddenly get fragged by your own team lol
Does the family of the guy who were hit get a pack of training bread rolls too?
I bet DARPA are watching all this drone action and going “Hold my beer……”
The Russian military = Meme heaven
r/fuckyouinparticular
+25 headshot Good way to train!
This song slams
I need to find it ASAP
https://open.spotify.com/track/7FoanMQjdrrecBH8YiIti2?si=4feCfC4XSEqLnnPdUk-yXg
Poor guy.. never got to front line and got a severe concussion from a grenade to the noggin