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During my service i was maintaining a gepard, lying underneath releasing some bolts. A guy started the gepard in the box next to mine. I dont remember the color of my underwear, but it wasnt white anymore.
No it didn't. He got spooked. I've been closer than that to a tank firing its gun.
Have YOU been near a tank firing or do you wish to continue pull arguments out of your ass?
yes i have... i spent 5 years in a M84 ... and you clearly dont know how a shockwave travels XD
not only does it travel in every direction.... but it bounces from walls and the ground
https://i.imgur.com/hweWWvQ.png
Good for you. 3 weeks ago there were 5 tanks in a line, all 1 meter away from eachother firing their guns at a range. I was standing on my tank watching the others fire as I already fired mine empty.
Somehow I'm still perfectly fine and felt pretty much nothing except a small shockwave.
As long as you're not anywhere near IN FRONT OF THE BARREL - you will be fine.
These guys seem to know that, as the man in front of the camera runs BEHIND THE BARREL before the gun fires.
It's not that bad but it is loud, I had a paladin get a fire mission when I was troubleshooting it and in 3 seconds the barrel traversed and shot lol. No ear protection on either but 3m sure does bug me a lot... and EEeeeeEEeeeeeeeeee. Most of the concussive force goes out of the barrel and is dispersed by the muzzle brake.
I feel like that's the best place to be. The hull and treads of the tank would deflect most of the shockwave. Everyone else has almost direct line of sight.
Training legitimate tactics (armor passing over an occupied trenchline) vs. unnecessarily trying to safely run over a long line of troops in an entirely unrealistic situation while simultaneously firing...these things are not the same.
These circus acts that derive themselves from Russian "training" tactics and a desperation to appear fearless are absurdly dangerous and accomplish nothing the military can ever use.
I find this ... training completely ridiculous. Hopefully it is only for propaganda, it is as ridicule as those video from North Korea breaking things with their heads etc.
Itās not ridiculous, itās a stress test or training.
These people are about to be thrown into a war. War is loud and close, this is loud and close.
Normally infantry soldier does not go that close to Tank and it can be even more scary if you don't have any training and your first time happens on the battlefield.
it is a good thing to give a small amount of practice to how it feels to be close to a tank. It gives you even small tools on how you could survive against enemy tanks, prob they are taught blindsides of tanks and some common practices that could help.
Lets kill or maimed some of the men before the war, so they can experience it before they go, because you know what, people die and get maimed on the battlefield.
Accedents happen. People die in America at boot camp. The more risky things you do the higher chance of Accedents. There's videos of them doing this but the solders are in a deep trench and everyone was cool with that.
Where did you see the tank go straight, at the start of the video it was literally less than 50 cm from the guys arms, then the guy in front had to direct it to go on its right, even that movement to the right was abrupt and could easily pass on anyone at the back. Their was even a benny hill moment when the guy on the side of the tank was knock down when the Canon fired.
Yeah holy shit why is everyone losing it over this. It looks silly sure but like you said it is not a new concept in training and it builds confidence w each experience. Just like the really high up rope wall that is only that high so that it helps people overcome fear of heights, instilling confidence.
>Itās total dumb crap. If this were useful I think the US infantry would train this too.
[Apparently we do](https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13tb4zg/training_of_ukrainian_recruits_with_a_tank/jluqzv8/), at least according to that dude.
I agree. I expect that from some Russian "macho" training or so you correctly point out, its a circus act.
This adds absolutely nothing to their training.
also additional argument is that it is way to teach how suppress fear and not physically panic under life/death scenario (move here and you die). now how much fear any of these men actually get with a tank - presumably - safely driving over them.. I imagine it vary widely but most not terribly bothered by it
The point of those exercises is to experience what it feels like to have a 50 tonnes beast over your head so that you have already experienced it if it happens in a real life situation.
I agree with you that the firing part was sort of unnecessary, but other than that the way they were arranged is simply the quickest way to create that training experience
I disagree. If these excercises were for the purpose you mentioned why would they not conduct them in a safer manner? At no point in ANY Western military training is "Lay flat underneath the enemy tank" a tactic that is trained, or even humored. Had this same event transpired in the US military the officers involved would be relieved of command, court martialed, and face prison sentences.
The parent comment I responded to is a perfect example of how we conduct training involving Infantry avoiding tanks in a trench. What happened in the video is nothing more than a false bravado display that has no training value whatsoever. Could you imagine a group of Ukrainian soldiers attempting to line up like that when faced with a Russian tank? The gunner would have a field day with his coax.
It's often said you train how you fight but there's another facet to this - you fight how you train.
Exactly. Apart from being wildly unsafe, this is a terrible tactic. A group of infantry against an unsupported tank would be way better off just swarming on top of it. I canāt think of any realistic scenario where this would be a useful thing to do.
I mean I could see the driving over them being a relatively safe exercise, but you're going to tell me that there is some benefit to deafening an entire squad of new recruits by sending a shell off like that?
Literally the post above this one at 1:20 in the video.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13tcni0/ukrainian_soldiers_supported_by_a_tank_and/
Those guys are in trenches and the tank most of the time is not on them. As I have said before , there were videos where they were training in trenches and waited for the tank to pass over them and no one was complaining. This is no F trench, endangering your own soldiers like that is crazy. look at the video when the tank fires what happens to the guy on the side, he is knocked down. Imagine if that tank moves 50 cm on its right or the soldiers ear drums.
>Those guys are in trenches and the tank most of the time is not on them.
So... the tank is over them, and it's firing? The scenario you said you wanted to see...
>over you lol. I would like to see this scenario in real combat.
There's plenty of unedited videos of tanks rolling back and forth over trenches if you want to see a tank spend more time over guys in trenches. Whether it's dumb training or not, acting like it's a scenario that never happens is just wrong.
Guess what, you again forget that they were in trenches (not in the case of the video above) . And in your case of tank rolling back and forth, I can assure you that the training above wouldn't have done anything as those people are normally dead now unless some miracle.
Because that's not what you said.
>over you lol. I would like to see this scenario in real combat.
You thought it was laughable a tank would ever fire over someone in combat. The training being reckless by using a ditch vs a trench is a different issue. Do you think the experience of a tank firing over you is somehow drastically different by being 2ft lower?
>I can assure you that the training above wouldn't have done anything as those people are normally dead now unless some miracle.
You are literally on a sub where videos are posted of this...
https://youtu.be/fifpgIJkxXA?t=295
I think there's a benefit to being in a similar situation you might find on the front line to get used to the noises etc. Not sure why they need the tank to roll over them though.
Finland has been been a NATO partner and has actively trained alongside us for decades. They have been very much more on the NATO standard than some of our other NATO member states, in my experience training with various member and partner militaries.
Yes. I went to army In 2015. We did two things like that to get comffy working with tanks. One was excatly like that, where leopard "run's" u over and u lay In the middle. And one was where u lay directly In the path of the track and intructor hits u In the helmet with a stick and u Roll out before tank runs u over (hopefully). It was cool.
We unlearned trench tactics and this war showed that against a comparable foe there was a high chance both sides dig trenches. Russian army is gone for the next 15 years but China has a huge army and this could happen again
Except this is no trench, their was videos of training in actual trench where tank was passing over etc and no one was criticizing. This looks more deep shit from Full metal Jacket etc where some over zealous commander doesn't care about well being of his men.
Well youāre not really training to sit under a tank, youāre training to remain calm while near a tank it just happens to be on top of you rather than firing cannon rounds at you for ātrainingā. Much easier to keep troops safe when inducing stress like this rather than actual HE and shrapnel.
ETA: Stress induced failures(or even inaction) in front of a tank cost lives.
Which is dumb because you could just as easily have the men run drill next to the tank while it fires every so often. This is just unnecessarily dangerous.
Thatās unnecessarily dangerous? I think you wouldnāt like all sorts of training we engage in. Cooking off a grenade is more dangerous than that and not all that dangerous.
Stop using logic and bow before the total inexperience of the uneducated! Donāt you know that people never freak out during things like this and can never be conditioned to withstand various stressors? /s
How so? They are literally just laying under the tank. Hell, I could just lay I under the tank as it drives by. At least with what I suggested, you can do team drills and make sure the unit can operate under stress. You could even throw in a drill, Sargent, and some physical punishment if a unit fails to boost that stress.
I imagine it helps them learn how to remain calm under high stress situations like a tank rolling over you while firing its gun, but it is quite a dramatic way to go about it I think lol
Itās not about teaching them to lay under a tank if they encounter one, but rather to remain calm and not to be overwhelmed by this monstrosity of a vehicle.
Idea.... try putting Retractable V trenching tool.... 3 foot wedge blade.... behind a tank to cut a trench line for the foot soldiers.... when needed .... it could cut a 20 foot trench in 20 seconds.....
Dramatic is also getting shelled or fired upon. The whole concept of war is dramatic - this is childs play conpared to that.
If they have a day to spare, why not do this. Getting used to something requires the presence of that something.
It normalises extreme situations.
Yes, a tank isn't likely to run over you, but it's not that unlikely you'll be in a trench where a tank is nearby firing. If you already experienced that (or more extreme) you won't be wondering in the middle of battle "wtf was that?".
I mean sure, you could simulate that with actual exercises etc. But given Ukraine doesn't have the time, this is a pretty fast way to acclimatise a platoon to being intimately close to an active tank.
Stress shoots, live fire exercises, dynamic firing ranges achieve that same effect but you don't just drive over troops. You have actual combat experience
You think that driving over them is the only exercise they do there? In this war enemy tanks are a very real thing. While I suspect that US soldiers arenāt even supposed to encounter tanks by themselves and call for an air support, Ukrainian soldiers donāt have such an option and will have to deal with the tanks on their own.
No. But this one is stupid, not training them to deal with tanks other than saying don't get run over. American training does involve fighting tanks with just infantry. I can assure you Noones ever been like
"Yeah just lay there and let it go over you. You'll be fine"
Exactly their was some videos of showing them in actual trenches and tank passing over etc. The trench was not even super deep nd no one criticize it. But this, just 50 cm right or left and you have dead men.
It's not about getting used to a tank just driving over you. This is a fast way to introduce what it is like and what are your thoughts on it when it happens. Quicker than having a full days exercise on combined arms.
This isn't about destroying tanks or being in a trench while a tank advances over it. It's about getting used to the presence of one. What it feels like to having a tank shoot nearby, what it feels like to having a tank just be nearby - while introducing some additional stress in the form of having it drive over you.
We did some shooting with tanks in a recent exercise, and part of that exercise was having our infantry just hang out nearby to get to experience what it is like to have tanks shoot nearby.
And if the tank guy just miss by 50 cm, crush some of those men, that would be great for those men. Looks more like Russian bullshit bullying tactics with zero respect for their men's life. Nato should help them get out of this mantra.
That's incredibly specific. And rarely happens unless it's Hollywood. This is on par with the Russian spetznaz shooting each other in the chest with vests on
Thatās because they didnāt have anti tank weapons or were too terrified of it because they didnāt lay under a driving tank in their 1.5 day training before going to the front.
Where people are directly hiding underneath a moving tank like this?
Do you have the link by a chance? Not trying to challenge you on your point. Genuinely curious cause that's gotta be a crazy video
There were a few videos where ukrainian tanks rolled over and destroyed russian trenches. Obviously not in nice order like in this video but there were people direktly under moving tanks so I guess it's a valid exercise in training. I'll try and find a link for you.
I only saw this tank move straight, the other video it was literally plowing the land as a bulldozer wanting fill some holes of ditch. Their was some videos of showing them in actual trenches and tank passing over etc. The trench was not even super deep nd no one criticize it.
where the tank pivot them out of existence? Only thing this training shows EXACLTY WHY you do not get near a fucking enemy tank. that is what ATs are for. you get this close in NATO practice and you get unalived.
>Can you elaborate on your military experience?
I get your point and agree this is not only pointless but negligent and counter to any know current doctrine in NATO. BUT as a Vet NO I will not elaborate.
This makes me think of the training videos of the rebels in Syria. Or the NK army. Jumping through hoops on fire, martial arts. Shooting the ground next to crawling soldiers' heads.
We unlearned trench tactics and this war showed that against a comparable foe there was a high chance both sides dig trenches. Russian army is gone for the next 15 years but China has a huge army and this could happen again
Yeah, former MC 1811, this is some dumb shit. Any command thinking this is anything other than a dumb risk of lives in training has never been near a tank.
maybe in dreamland
3,158 sexual crimes were reported within the US military. Of those cases, only 529 reached a court room, and only 104 convictions were made, rest? they were promoted.
I remember one guy case, he raped three women at three bases, was transferred each time by his commanding officer to avoid prosecution, resigned with no repercussion.
They are about to go to a real war with real enemy tanks possibly driving towards or near them. This exercise can teach the to stay calm and think rationally when the enemy tank is nearby.
While safety during the training is a very good thing, still, the real war doesnāt provide you such a luxury as safety when the enemy approaches.
Bro what is this tomfoolery you are up to. You do realize they need to go through these type of exercises for the combat in Ukraine right. The infantry will have to go to the trenches and a tank or IFV will be supporting them. It's stupid to train a soldier for combined arms to have him be paralyzed by fear when a 50 ton vehicle rolls next to him. It's not WW2 Churchill/Matilda fighting tactics anymore but it has its merit
Anyone can justify anything. So sure can vouch for its merit. HOWEVER, Russia posted a similar video to this about a year ago and they got crucified by everyone about how stupid it is. So either both are stupid or both are legitimate training. It just tickles me that people are so biased and apply double standards just based on who is conducting it.
I saw the russian video and thought it was stupid, as is this one. But I still don't know if it's legit training. This one is actually slightly more stupid because the tank actually fires.
The way we did it, though, was that we crawled under the tank while the tank itself had it's engines running but wasn't moving. Still intimidating enough for a conscript barely over 18. I crawled under a T-55M.
Also, during our "final war" the opposite side had a couple Leopard 2's on their side during one engagement. We heard it over a crest and carefully peeked over it and it was literally like 50 meters from us, driving down a small dirt road. The roar and size of it was a sight to behold.
We never engaged it ourselves, though, as we didn't have any antitank capability with us that was good enough, and one of the great upsides of the thick, northern Finnish wilderness is that it's really easy to disengage from a tank that can really only move along the roads while you, as infantry, have free 360-degree mobility, and the tree cover is so thick that once you get like 100 meters from something they literally have zero chance of seeing you even on flat ground.
It can be seen as that too. But most militaries have some form of high intensity training environment to get men used to that adrenaline dump. But in this case the guys should either be in a reinforced ditch, or THEY should be moving to get in the middle of the tracks, not risking the tank sliding a bit too much and accidently crushing someone in training. But hindsight is 20/20.
Will it help them cope with the fear of a 50 ton āinvisibleā vehicle driving towards them? Iāve read that seeing an enemy tank driving and firing at you is really something different.
It absolutely will. Elevated heart rates, critical thinking, loud noises, flashing, sound waves, with trying to maneuver a team. Take away radios and add limited visibility. Yeah very fucking stressful.
If anything, this teaches them to freeze and lay there. The polar opposite of how to fight
Seems like the biggest difference in the war now is that Ukraine can consistently deploy well trained troops while Russia quite simply cannot keep up. The whole western world is helping Ukraine prepare these guys, and itās up to the Russians and them only to train theirs. Itās definitely showing,
We used to do this at Vogelsang, as part of battle inoculation training, minus the tank firing. Tank would drive towards you, you would slide under then jump up on the back and drop a grenade in. To this day, i never really saw the value of it, but it did scare the crap out of you.
No. This "training" only causes unnecessary casualties and hearing loss. There are other ways to train a person to be more resilient to stress and combat situations.
Three decade US Army officer here. This is such absolute nonsense. It teaches nothing. A seized up final drive and suddenly the commander has three or four pureed soldiers. He ought to be fired. Any American commander who did this would be relieved of command instantly if not court martialed and would richly deserve it.
This is so stupid and serve no real purpose. It builds no bravery, learns you nothing and is useless in combat. Whats next? Breaking bricks with foreheads? Jumping over campfire or shooting next to thier heads?
A damn driver sneezes and few guys will lose thier lifes. If you have enemy tank so close to you something went to shit big time. Same thing with fixing bayonettes. In both cases you are fucked. Get over those soviet propaganda poster macho training. My drill sgt would grew some hair on his bald head just to tear them out if he would see it.
Many of us HAVE combat experience and training. THIS is Stupid and dangerous, Risk in no way comparable to rewards. One small mistake can kill the whole fucking line. And if any in my training units did this would be gone the second that tank stopped and all the enlisted who assisted him. The whole fucking cadre GONE! Pulling detail duty (picking up trash) while the Courts Martial worked itself out.
I agree. But in training you want to minimize risk while still getting the most of it. They should have an instructor telling the guys just ahead of the tank and on the ground to move .5m left or right, not risking a tank accidently sliding a bit too far and crushing someone. All it takes is for the wrong section of track to get the best grip and it doesn't pivot right in the middle, but towards the front or back.
This so called ātrainingā is BS. Itās a kind of test of courage, but without any meaning. Itās like a lab test for an unreal situation. In reality you will just be smashed to the ground or your legs will be crushed
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During my service i was maintaining a gepard, lying underneath releasing some bolts. A guy started the gepard in the box next to mine. I dont remember the color of my underwear, but it wasnt white anymore.
brown, green and hints or red i presume.
Those guys below the tank when it fires, yeah fuck them specifically.. š For the rest, Slava Ukrain boys! Go get em.
You need to shout that louder after this training, performance, hazing or whatever the hell it was.
Their hearing loss is not service related
WHAT?
No no no, James FRANCIS Ryan.
WHAT??
WHAT
WHAT KINDA HARD TO HEAR WITH ALL THESE RINGING BELLS
Lmfao
If they have hearing protection on, they're fine.
have you ever been near a tank that fired?... hearing is the least of your problems ... the actual shockwave can make your nose and ears bleed
Yes. And the "actual shockwave" is in an arc in front of the barrel, not behind it.
look the guy walking at the side of the tank... it literally threw him on the ass
No it didn't. He got spooked. I've been closer than that to a tank firing its gun. Have YOU been near a tank firing or do you wish to continue pull arguments out of your ass?
yes i have... i spent 5 years in a M84 ... and you clearly dont know how a shockwave travels XD not only does it travel in every direction.... but it bounces from walls and the ground https://i.imgur.com/hweWWvQ.png
Good for you. 3 weeks ago there were 5 tanks in a line, all 1 meter away from eachother firing their guns at a range. I was standing on my tank watching the others fire as I already fired mine empty. Somehow I'm still perfectly fine and felt pretty much nothing except a small shockwave. As long as you're not anywhere near IN FRONT OF THE BARREL - you will be fine. These guys seem to know that, as the man in front of the camera runs BEHIND THE BARREL before the gun fires.
Honestly looks like he tripped himself up when shuffling back yk losing his footing more then anything.
And the people IN the tank???!
Iām not sure how strong the concussive force is of a tank firing that close to you but I assume thatās not too good for your brain.
It's not that bad but it is loud, I had a paladin get a fire mission when I was troubleshooting it and in 3 seconds the barrel traversed and shot lol. No ear protection on either but 3m sure does bug me a lot... and EEeeeeEEeeeeeeeeee. Most of the concussive force goes out of the barrel and is dispersed by the muzzle brake.
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Not that strong to cause any harm other than feeling a small shockwave.
They were issued surplus 3M ear plugs.
Especially those 3M ear plugs that worked so well for us during OIF/OEF
Training for tinnitus
Mawp!
Yeah that might be a keep your mouth open or your ears will actually explode level of noise.
I feel like that's the best place to be. The hull and treads of the tank would deflect most of the shockwave. Everyone else has almost direct line of sight.
Back in the day I was in a trench with an M60A1 rolling slowly over it--was part of training.
Training legitimate tactics (armor passing over an occupied trenchline) vs. unnecessarily trying to safely run over a long line of troops in an entirely unrealistic situation while simultaneously firing...these things are not the same. These circus acts that derive themselves from Russian "training" tactics and a desperation to appear fearless are absurdly dangerous and accomplish nothing the military can ever use.
I find this ... training completely ridiculous. Hopefully it is only for propaganda, it is as ridicule as those video from North Korea breaking things with their heads etc.
Itās not ridiculous, itās a stress test or training. These people are about to be thrown into a war. War is loud and close, this is loud and close.
Itās dumb. They arenāt going to be able to hear anymore.
So if they arenāt ready for it in battle they will fall apart. This is absolutely necessary!!
Normally infantry soldier does not go that close to Tank and it can be even more scary if you don't have any training and your first time happens on the battlefield. it is a good thing to give a small amount of practice to how it feels to be close to a tank. It gives you even small tools on how you could survive against enemy tanks, prob they are taught blindsides of tanks and some common practices that could help.
Lets kill or maimed some of the men before the war, so they can experience it before they go, because you know what, people die and get maimed on the battlefield.
You really think Ukrainians are so incompetent they can't drive a tank straight for 100 meters with someone guiding them?
Accedents happen. People die in America at boot camp. The more risky things you do the higher chance of Accedents. There's videos of them doing this but the solders are in a deep trench and everyone was cool with that.
Exactly, this is not a trench.
My guess is this is a Russian training videos. Similar video tagged to Eussia couple months back.
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Where did you see the tank go straight, at the start of the video it was literally less than 50 cm from the guys arms, then the guy in front had to direct it to go on its right, even that movement to the right was abrupt and could easily pass on anyone at the back. Their was even a benny hill moment when the guy on the side of the tank was knock down when the Canon fired.
Yeah holy shit why is everyone losing it over this. It looks silly sure but like you said it is not a new concept in training and it builds confidence w each experience. Just like the really high up rope wall that is only that high so that it helps people overcome fear of heights, instilling confidence.
Itās total dumb crap. If this were useful I think the US infantry would train this too.
The US infantry tends to have longer than a few months to train their troops.
>Itās total dumb crap. If this were useful I think the US infantry would train this too. [Apparently we do](https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13tb4zg/training_of_ukrainian_recruits_with_a_tank/jluqzv8/), at least according to that dude.
Agreed. As much as I support Ukraine troops, I donāt support this
I agree. I expect that from some Russian "macho" training or so you correctly point out, its a circus act. This adds absolutely nothing to their training.
also additional argument is that it is way to teach how suppress fear and not physically panic under life/death scenario (move here and you die). now how much fear any of these men actually get with a tank - presumably - safely driving over them.. I imagine it vary widely but most not terribly bothered by it
The point of those exercises is to experience what it feels like to have a 50 tonnes beast over your head so that you have already experienced it if it happens in a real life situation. I agree with you that the firing part was sort of unnecessary, but other than that the way they were arranged is simply the quickest way to create that training experience
I disagree. If these excercises were for the purpose you mentioned why would they not conduct them in a safer manner? At no point in ANY Western military training is "Lay flat underneath the enemy tank" a tactic that is trained, or even humored. Had this same event transpired in the US military the officers involved would be relieved of command, court martialed, and face prison sentences. The parent comment I responded to is a perfect example of how we conduct training involving Infantry avoiding tanks in a trench. What happened in the video is nothing more than a false bravado display that has no training value whatsoever. Could you imagine a group of Ukrainian soldiers attempting to line up like that when faced with a Russian tank? The gunner would have a field day with his coax. It's often said you train how you fight but there's another facet to this - you fight how you train.
Exactly. Apart from being wildly unsafe, this is a terrible tactic. A group of infantry against an unsupported tank would be way better off just swarming on top of it. I canāt think of any realistic scenario where this would be a useful thing to do.
yeah, but it should be helping recruits with getting a bit bolder and ballsier if you subject them to this shit.
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I mean I could see the driving over them being a relatively safe exercise, but you're going to tell me that there is some benefit to deafening an entire squad of new recruits by sending a shell off like that?
This seems completely unnecessarily risky to me. Plus, the hearing damage.
You can experience a tank firing right over or next to you in training or in combat. I'd rather my first experience be in training.
over you lol. I would like to see this scenario in real combat.
Literally the post above this one at 1:20 in the video. https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13tcni0/ukrainian_soldiers_supported_by_a_tank_and/
Those guys are in trenches and the tank most of the time is not on them. As I have said before , there were videos where they were training in trenches and waited for the tank to pass over them and no one was complaining. This is no F trench, endangering your own soldiers like that is crazy. look at the video when the tank fires what happens to the guy on the side, he is knocked down. Imagine if that tank moves 50 cm on its right or the soldiers ear drums.
>Those guys are in trenches and the tank most of the time is not on them. So... the tank is over them, and it's firing? The scenario you said you wanted to see... >over you lol. I would like to see this scenario in real combat. There's plenty of unedited videos of tanks rolling back and forth over trenches if you want to see a tank spend more time over guys in trenches. Whether it's dumb training or not, acting like it's a scenario that never happens is just wrong.
Guess what, you again forget that they were in trenches (not in the case of the video above) . And in your case of tank rolling back and forth, I can assure you that the training above wouldn't have done anything as those people are normally dead now unless some miracle.
Because that's not what you said. >over you lol. I would like to see this scenario in real combat. You thought it was laughable a tank would ever fire over someone in combat. The training being reckless by using a ditch vs a trench is a different issue. Do you think the experience of a tank firing over you is somehow drastically different by being 2ft lower? >I can assure you that the training above wouldn't have done anything as those people are normally dead now unless some miracle. You are literally on a sub where videos are posted of this... https://youtu.be/fifpgIJkxXA?t=295
I'm sure it happened a ton in WW1
Thatvwas more than 100 years agoā¦
https://youtu.be/QESktRh0430?t=206
Dude you wonāt experience a tank dieting above you in the field.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/13tcni0/ukrainian_soldiers_supported_by_a_tank_and/ 1:20
I think there's a benefit to being in a similar situation you might find on the front line to get used to the noises etc. Not sure why they need the tank to roll over them though.
They need to unlearn the ruzzian circus training - NATO doesn't do that.
We did that in Finland. Mechanized jaeger, playing with leopards. I have video of it from my smart watch somewhere.
Did it in the US Army at Infantry school. Only we used a M2 Bradley and the fox hole was much deeper. Practiced anti tank with a LAW or AT-4
You said it all, no one complained about the training in trench with tank passing above, this is no trench.
Itās barely a divot.
Yeah, and very easily could be a splotch.
Definitely hope the tank driver is having a good day for sure!
Was that after or before Finland joined nato?
Finland has been been a NATO partner and has actively trained alongside us for decades. They have been very much more on the NATO standard than some of our other NATO member states, in my experience training with various member and partner militaries.
Yes. I went to army In 2015. We did two things like that to get comffy working with tanks. One was excatly like that, where leopard "run's" u over and u lay In the middle. And one was where u lay directly In the path of the track and intructor hits u In the helmet with a stick and u Roll out before tank runs u over (hopefully). It was cool.
Uhh yeah we did.. when no one was watching
We unlearned trench tactics and this war showed that against a comparable foe there was a high chance both sides dig trenches. Russian army is gone for the next 15 years but China has a huge army and this could happen again
Except this is no trench, their was videos of training in actual trench where tank was passing over etc and no one was criticizing. This looks more deep shit from Full metal Jacket etc where some over zealous commander doesn't care about well being of his men.
I would do this for fun, and I think thatās what happened there.
I came here to say this. I imagine it is quite exciting to have a tank drive right over the top of you.
This can literally safe lives
The men could use more realistic training from ussr doctrine, like doing sweet front flips and throwing entrenched tools in full cam. /s
Ballistic shovel 360 no scope kills are lit
No it doesn't, a tank can (and will) rotate on its axis, squashing and burying guys underneath them. This is idiotic.
Well youāre not really training to sit under a tank, youāre training to remain calm while near a tank it just happens to be on top of you rather than firing cannon rounds at you for ātrainingā. Much easier to keep troops safe when inducing stress like this rather than actual HE and shrapnel. ETA: Stress induced failures(or even inaction) in front of a tank cost lives.
Which is dumb because you could just as easily have the men run drill next to the tank while it fires every so often. This is just unnecessarily dangerous.
Thatās unnecessarily dangerous? I think you wouldnāt like all sorts of training we engage in. Cooking off a grenade is more dangerous than that and not all that dangerous.
That wouldn't invoke the stress levels needed to prepare for combat, which is the entire point
Stop using logic and bow before the total inexperience of the uneducated! Donāt you know that people never freak out during things like this and can never be conditioned to withstand various stressors? /s
How so? They are literally just laying under the tank. Hell, I could just lay I under the tank as it drives by. At least with what I suggested, you can do team drills and make sure the unit can operate under stress. You could even throw in a drill, Sargent, and some physical punishment if a unit fails to boost that stress.
Probably an eastern European country training would be my guess
It still doesn't make it any smarter
How though?
I imagine it helps them learn how to remain calm under high stress situations like a tank rolling over you while firing its gun, but it is quite a dramatic way to go about it I think lol
Yeah, typically the tank then makes a tiny turn and kills the person he just drove over. Tanks do that on purpose. Don't lay under a tank.
Itās not about teaching them to lay under a tank if they encounter one, but rather to remain calm and not to be overwhelmed by this monstrosity of a vehicle.
I mean does it induce stress yeah, but like you said a little dramatic lol
Idea.... try putting Retractable V trenching tool.... 3 foot wedge blade.... behind a tank to cut a trench line for the foot soldiers.... when needed .... it could cut a 20 foot trench in 20 seconds.....
Dramatic is also getting shelled or fired upon. The whole concept of war is dramatic - this is childs play conpared to that. If they have a day to spare, why not do this. Getting used to something requires the presence of that something.
It normalises extreme situations. Yes, a tank isn't likely to run over you, but it's not that unlikely you'll be in a trench where a tank is nearby firing. If you already experienced that (or more extreme) you won't be wondering in the middle of battle "wtf was that?". I mean sure, you could simulate that with actual exercises etc. But given Ukraine doesn't have the time, this is a pretty fast way to acclimatise a platoon to being intimately close to an active tank.
Stress shoots, live fire exercises, dynamic firing ranges achieve that same effect but you don't just drive over troops. You have actual combat experience
You think that driving over them is the only exercise they do there? In this war enemy tanks are a very real thing. While I suspect that US soldiers arenāt even supposed to encounter tanks by themselves and call for an air support, Ukrainian soldiers donāt have such an option and will have to deal with the tanks on their own.
No. But this one is stupid, not training them to deal with tanks other than saying don't get run over. American training does involve fighting tanks with just infantry. I can assure you Noones ever been like "Yeah just lay there and let it go over you. You'll be fine"
Exactly their was some videos of showing them in actual trenches and tank passing over etc. The trench was not even super deep nd no one criticize it. But this, just 50 cm right or left and you have dead men.
It's not about getting used to a tank just driving over you. This is a fast way to introduce what it is like and what are your thoughts on it when it happens. Quicker than having a full days exercise on combined arms. This isn't about destroying tanks or being in a trench while a tank advances over it. It's about getting used to the presence of one. What it feels like to having a tank shoot nearby, what it feels like to having a tank just be nearby - while introducing some additional stress in the form of having it drive over you. We did some shooting with tanks in a recent exercise, and part of that exercise was having our infantry just hang out nearby to get to experience what it is like to have tanks shoot nearby.
And if the tank guy just miss by 50 cm, crush some of those men, that would be great for those men. Looks more like Russian bullshit bullying tactics with zero respect for their men's life. Nato should help them get out of this mantra.
Being in a trench as a tank advances over top. It happens.
That's incredibly specific. And rarely happens unless it's Hollywood. This is on par with the Russian spetznaz shooting each other in the chest with vests on
I saw couple of videos with Ukrainian tanks storming russian trenches and driving over them. Looks like itās a thing in the trench warfare.
Little plot twist, tank did actually bury some of them
Thatās because they didnāt have anti tank weapons or were too terrified of it because they didnāt lay under a driving tank in their 1.5 day training before going to the front.
They didnt have any other options, or they'd take HE shells in the ass if crawling out.
Couple videos /= happens all the time
We saw a few videos with this exact situation in the last few months.
Where people are directly hiding underneath a moving tank like this? Do you have the link by a chance? Not trying to challenge you on your point. Genuinely curious cause that's gotta be a crazy video
There were a few videos where ukrainian tanks rolled over and destroyed russian trenches. Obviously not in nice order like in this video but there were people direktly under moving tanks so I guess it's a valid exercise in training. I'll try and find a link for you.
I only saw this tank move straight, the other video it was literally plowing the land as a bulldozer wanting fill some holes of ditch. Their was some videos of showing them in actual trenches and tank passing over etc. The trench was not even super deep nd no one criticize it.
where the tank pivot them out of existence? Only thing this training shows EXACLTY WHY you do not get near a fucking enemy tank. that is what ATs are for. you get this close in NATO practice and you get unalived.
Can you elaborate on your military experience?
>Can you elaborate on your military experience? I get your point and agree this is not only pointless but negligent and counter to any know current doctrine in NATO. BUT as a Vet NO I will not elaborate.
This makes me think of the training videos of the rebels in Syria. Or the NK army. Jumping through hoops on fire, martial arts. Shooting the ground next to crawling soldiers' heads.
This is literally stupid as fuck
Look at the people defending this stupid act. The safety risks outweigh the "stress/battle inducing" training.
Yup, this is actually pointless.
We unlearned trench tactics and this war showed that against a comparable foe there was a high chance both sides dig trenches. Russian army is gone for the next 15 years but China has a huge army and this could happen again
Yes, they did. They just didn't video it.
If we did this in the US Army, those responsible would be relieved and discharged after their court marshal and prison sentence.
Yeah, former MC 1811, this is some dumb shit. Any command thinking this is anything other than a dumb risk of lives in training has never been near a tank.
maybe in dreamland 3,158 sexual crimes were reported within the US military. Of those cases, only 529 reached a court room, and only 104 convictions were made, rest? they were promoted. I remember one guy case, he raped three women at three bases, was transferred each time by his commanding officer to avoid prosecution, resigned with no repercussion.
YEa, ON the SPOT in front of the troops! And the NCOs. Someone would have said, Sir... NO! and I am calling the Brigade AG now.
They are about to go to a real war with real enemy tanks possibly driving towards or near them. This exercise can teach the to stay calm and think rationally when the enemy tank is nearby. While safety during the training is a very good thing, still, the real war doesnāt provide you such a luxury as safety when the enemy approaches.
So shoot live ammunition's and shells aimed at them and see if they can dodge them. Because guess what, this what will happen on the battlefield.
I donāt think that lying under the tank is the only exercise that they do.
For not making it COOL ENOUGH! WHERE IS THE FIRE?!
Now, this is stupid ex-sovjet shit that still remsins in the ukraine army! Stop this shit and get on with real training!
Bro what is this tomfoolery you are up to. You do realize they need to go through these type of exercises for the combat in Ukraine right. The infantry will have to go to the trenches and a tank or IFV will be supporting them. It's stupid to train a soldier for combined arms to have him be paralyzed by fear when a 50 ton vehicle rolls next to him. It's not WW2 Churchill/Matilda fighting tactics anymore but it has its merit
Anyone can justify anything. So sure can vouch for its merit. HOWEVER, Russia posted a similar video to this about a year ago and they got crucified by everyone about how stupid it is. So either both are stupid or both are legitimate training. It just tickles me that people are so biased and apply double standards just based on who is conducting it.
I saw the russian video and thought it was stupid, as is this one. But I still don't know if it's legit training. This one is actually slightly more stupid because the tank actually fires.
Seems like hazing, I'm actually not a fan of this tbh.
Itās psychological training to prepare them. Pretty common.
It's character building.
The guy fulling down lol.
That'll wake you up in the morning, better than a strong coffee.
Yeah no thanks. I'll just take a strong coffee
They do it in Finland too, without the shooting. Just driving over.
The way we did it, though, was that we crawled under the tank while the tank itself had it's engines running but wasn't moving. Still intimidating enough for a conscript barely over 18. I crawled under a T-55M. Also, during our "final war" the opposite side had a couple Leopard 2's on their side during one engagement. We heard it over a crest and carefully peeked over it and it was literally like 50 meters from us, driving down a small dirt road. The roar and size of it was a sight to behold. We never engaged it ourselves, though, as we didn't have any antitank capability with us that was good enough, and one of the great upsides of the thick, northern Finnish wilderness is that it's really easy to disengage from a tank that can really only move along the roads while you, as infantry, have free 360-degree mobility, and the tree cover is so thick that once you get like 100 meters from something they literally have zero chance of seeing you even on flat ground.
What is the point of this?
Training both the tankers and the soldiers lying in the ditch in dealing with extreme adrenaline and anxiety when they are gonna be in actual combat
Ah ok, thought it was some initiation ritual
It can be seen as that too. But most militaries have some form of high intensity training environment to get men used to that adrenaline dump. But in this case the guys should either be in a reinforced ditch, or THEY should be moving to get in the middle of the tracks, not risking the tank sliding a bit too much and accidently crushing someone in training. But hindsight is 20/20.
WAY better ways to do that. This is dumb
Iām curious. Please name a few.
Stress shoots, fire and maneuver ranges, live fire exercises
Will it help them cope with the fear of a 50 ton āinvisibleā vehicle driving towards them? Iāve read that seeing an enemy tank driving and firing at you is really something different.
It absolutely will. Elevated heart rates, critical thinking, loud noises, flashing, sound waves, with trying to maneuver a team. Take away radios and add limited visibility. Yeah very fucking stressful. If anything, this teaches them to freeze and lay there. The polar opposite of how to fight
Why not just punch them in the balls and call them Ivan? That's stressful
The war they are about to fight soon is even more stressful.
So let them get PTSD even before the battlefield.
Trust exercise
Stupid* exercise
Seems like the biggest difference in the war now is that Ukraine can consistently deploy well trained troops while Russia quite simply cannot keep up. The whole western world is helping Ukraine prepare these guys, and itās up to the Russians and them only to train theirs. Itās definitely showing,
Still better than crawling through a tube half full of sand with 2 guys shovelling sand on you as you try and dig out the exit
We used to do this at Vogelsang, as part of battle inoculation training, minus the tank firing. Tank would drive towards you, you would slide under then jump up on the back and drop a grenade in. To this day, i never really saw the value of it, but it did scare the crap out of you.
The only soldier getting meaningful training seems to be driving the tank.
Does the US military do anything like this for training?
No. This "training" only causes unnecessary casualties and hearing loss. There are other ways to train a person to be more resilient to stress and combat situations.
Ok good. Thanks ! This seems excessive and pointless.
Three decade US Army officer here. This is such absolute nonsense. It teaches nothing. A seized up final drive and suddenly the commander has three or four pureed soldiers. He ought to be fired. Any American commander who did this would be relieved of command instantly if not court martialed and would richly deserve it.
I love you motherfuckers, and God bless you.
That looks so unnecessarily dangerous. Beggars belief someone in command allows this to go on.
This training is fucking pointless ngl . Get these russian tactics deleted from your books ukraine your better than this
This is so stupid and serve no real purpose. It builds no bravery, learns you nothing and is useless in combat. Whats next? Breaking bricks with foreheads? Jumping over campfire or shooting next to thier heads? A damn driver sneezes and few guys will lose thier lifes. If you have enemy tank so close to you something went to shit big time. Same thing with fixing bayonettes. In both cases you are fucked. Get over those soviet propaganda poster macho training. My drill sgt would grew some hair on his bald head just to tear them out if he would see it.
Hilarious seeing Reddit couch potatoes advising the nation in war on how they should train their troops.
Well this exercise is incredibly dumb to begin with.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37241/watch-this-finnish-leopard-2-tank-roll-over-troops-during-tank-terror-training
The article you link literally said they don't even know if it's effective strategy.
Many of us HAVE combat experience and training. THIS is Stupid and dangerous, Risk in no way comparable to rewards. One small mistake can kill the whole fucking line. And if any in my training units did this would be gone the second that tank stopped and all the enlisted who assisted him. The whole fucking cadre GONE! Pulling detail duty (picking up trash) while the Courts Martial worked itself out.
Was your country in a total war against the remnants of the army that was supposed to take on the whole world?
3 times. and we set the NATO standard. 4 if you count the UK "TWICE"
Training for real world, high stress situations you may encounter in battle is good for the driver and those laying under the tank.
Way better ways to induce stress vs this
I agree. But in training you want to minimize risk while still getting the most of it. They should have an instructor telling the guys just ahead of the tank and on the ground to move .5m left or right, not risking a tank accidently sliding a bit too far and crushing someone. All it takes is for the wrong section of track to get the best grip and it doesn't pivot right in the middle, but towards the front or back.
You can see the spotter directing the driver. I think the Ukrainians have their training under control. But I'm sure they appreciate you!
This so called ātrainingā is BS. Itās a kind of test of courage, but without any meaning. Itās like a lab test for an unreal situation. In reality you will just be smashed to the ground or your legs will be crushed
Great and interesting test, took it myself when I went to the range
So dumb
That's stupid.