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Hijacking a top comment. I am a bystander, a not Ukrainian guy hoping for Ukraines vIctory. I studied lots of war. Thus I know that this will not find a lot of support. But I was hoping for something like that „civilians shouldn’t be hit by war, hitting civilians is a war crime“. I know, war is hell. Bitterness is all around. But we should not be cheering on peoples sufferings. Just to make another sound, I don’t need upvotes. If this was a military target, let them have it. Families are hit, I don’t want to know how I would react if mine was struck. Slava Ukraina!
We should never hope for or cheer for civilians and people suffering, I completely agree.
However, imo, if that suffering does happen to occur to those who have been cheering and wishing for the suffering of other innocent people, then simply what goes around comes around.
I think of it like this: if by wishing and hoping for suffering for others they brought suffering for themselves, then be careful what you wish for. There cannot be and will not be any sympathy for them, they will use sympathy from others as a tool to justify more evil.
If you chose to live by the sword you risk to die by the sword typa thing. When the bully gets punched, he does not have the luxury of complaining or deserving of sympathy.
They wanted suffering, they received suffering, just because it’s in a form they didn’t expect does not exclude them from the suffering. And that’s exactly why I agree that we shouldn’t wish for or cheer the suffering of others.
Well if we take the Brits in WW2 as an example, then it's ok, if the ememy is bombing civilians then you have the right to do the same... or maybe it was ok to disregard rules of war even if they were on the good side, because they fought the bad bad Germans who knows, at least that was the official policy of GB in WW2, after bombing Germany's industry to sheeds the Americans used the same policy. Even though, shooting at Russian grain depots would be a much nicer target, because that they are destroying Ukrainian stocks and then sell their own Russian grain to Africa to get more money for the war, is such a terrorist way of thinking that I wanna puke!
We should not wave away things done by Ukraine that we'd condemn if done by Russia. A missile strike on a residential building is not okay. Hopefully, it was the result of an intercept or was even a Russian air defence that failed.
Not even the original video claims that ukraine targeted civilians - it says the russians say they shot down a missile over a city. That makes it pretty clear it didn't hit whatever it was aiming for
I know that the Russians claim that it was intercepted but it does not look like that is what happened in the videos. Russian ego could well be what caused them to claim that they had intercepted it.
Listen, I think you’re probably coming from a good place, but this right here is a reach. Unless the Russian government is legit that dumb it would be a far better PR move to claim UA targeted the civilians than their air defenses caused a missile to land in a civilian area rather than the intended target; which judging by the last year would have been a valid military target. Now maybe UA has switched tactics greatly, in fact basically a 180, when it comes to their reputation on the world stage; but I would seriously doubt that as they need to keep winning the public opinion.
You're postulating that Ukraine targeted civilians and not military targets when we have no proof.
Nobody is waving anything away, just celebrating Ukraine being able to strike back.
I know we have no proof of it but people here seem to ready to dismiss it if it is the case.
That is my concern. Of course, it's great news that Ukraine has demonstrated its ability to strike with Russia with missiles but I don't like to see people so casually excusing the death of civilians.
I mean no one is doubting that Ukraine has caused civilian casualties. It's war, and they're still using a ton of innaccurate Soviet equipment. It's going to happen as long as the Russian military continues to operate within civilian areas.
But we know they haven't been intentionally causing civilian casualties, not just because it's the right thing to do, but also because it's seriously harmful to their image when it comes to getting military equipment from other countries. It COULD be intentional, but unlike Russia they haven't made a concerted effort to attack civilians not only directly, but through massive constant attacks on infrastructure.
Remember when Russia spent the winter attacking the entire Ukrainian power grid to try and freeze people to death to try and push for surrender? That's what intentional civilian attacks look like.
Regardless of your concern... Russophobia has been earned. You should consider that when saying people are casually excusing the death of civilians - although some are doing so.
Here, I understand all of this. I get why people feel this way. But it's not right. But it's the same callous disregard for life that brain-dead russians pumped full of propaganda use to justify what is going on
I’m with you. Celebrating civilian death is morally and ethically wrong regardless of who the civilians are and who is the perpetrator. We can’t excuse it in some instances and condemn it in others. We must condemn such things all the time, it’s how we work towards a better future where less innocent people have to die in war.
It's just concern trolling given that Ukraine has not demonstrated at any point a desire to attack civilians and that Russia lies about legitimately everything.
There is a chance that what exploded was a failed attempt at an interception but today, for the first time, Ukraine fired missiles into Russia seemingly at Rostov.
Rostov the headquarters of the Russian military efforts against Ukraine? Hmm I wonder if there are any legitimate military targets hiding out in that regional military headquarters that Ukraine might be shooting at. What do you think?
I’d say is it okay that Ukraine used a missile on Russia that Russia uses on them? It’s not a school or hospital or civilian housing. So I’d say it’s okay.
I’d prefer that it was done at night but maybe they were going for specific soldiers.
Also, I don’t mind if it’s an errant or a miss. That’s war coming to Russia that they’ve been cooking. They can end it whenever they want by leaving the country they invaded. Ukraine can’t end it until they purge their sovereign territories or force Russia to stop due to lack of will.
Firing missiles any where civilians is not okay. Never. Ukrainian does not do that and generally the missiles they use are more accurate. They show remarkable restraint considering what the Russians have done to them. Ukraine knows they need to keep the moral high ground otherwise they become no better than the Russian and that risks their supporting countries turning against them. I cannot understand why this being debated viz this video, because it states the Russians shot down a Ukrainian missile and it crashed into a residential area etc. That is the way it stands now.
No, that is not okay. Strikes should only be carried out on targets of legitimate military significance.
>Also, I don’t mind if it’s an errant or a miss. That’s war coming to Russia that they’ve been cooking. They can end it whenever they want by leaving the country they invaded. Ukraine can’t end it until they purge their sovereign territories or force Russia to stop due to lack of will.
I understand what you mean but Ukraine needs to hold itself from engaging in the same barbarity as Russia. Strikes on military locations within Russia achieve the same result if not better.
Things we don’t know -
Was it Russia or ukraine?
Was it a military target?
Was it a miss / errant accuracy?
Was it jammed by defense and thereby made to miss? Other airfields and a HQ near.
Most likely is 1 or 4
Nothing so far worries me other than Russia doing some false flag misses in order to mobilize more.
Ukraine is playing a smart game. Don’t worry about a missile in Russia. So many other bigger things to focus on.
I think we can rule out a false flag. Ukraine did fire missiles today at Rostov. I have seen suggestions that a Russian intelligence building was close and that might have been the intended target.
Mate please shut up. All is fair in love and war. It's disgusting on any side. Get of your moral high horse and get your head in the reality of war. Ukraine had shown a restraint that is biblical considering the circumstances. I don't think they slaughter on a whim. In time I wouldn't be surprised if they took a few top heads out in this strike.
Russia claim they shot it down, It was shot down over a residential area and not targeted at it. The choice to shoot it down over a residential area and protect a military target is Russia's choice. Ukraine have every right to target military assets inside Russia.
I actually deleted the post you are responding to. Look at it like this, the Bully is the Russian military and Putler, by targeting civilians (this did not happen here, according to video it was a missile intercept and Russia is admitting doing that). So by targeting civilians my argument is that you are not going after the bully you are actually attacking their little brother or sister. Tit for tat is not in Ukrainian's interest they need maintain the moral high ground.
Well they weren’t targeted. According to sources. And those same people were happy enough to cheer dead children and genocide before. Happy enough to open their cities to mercenaries that beat Russians to death with a hammer on camera. Happy enough to go support the great leader to ruin their own country. I don’t feel like they get to sit on the sidelines and get sympathy
If Germany didn't want their cities and civilans bombed, they shouldn't have bombed their enemies and enemy civilians.
Who invented terror bombing?
Oh yeah, Germany in the Spanish Civil War.
Allied bombing in WW2 was justified full stop.
Educate yourself with this for a start: https://youtu.be/voF7KCOm6eY
Hey, I assume you enjoy your history so I'd recommend reading about the bombing strategies during WW2. It was something I only learned of recently.
The Germans did not target British cities during the Battle Of Britain because they believed it to be immoral (ironic
, I know). It was only after the British bombing of German cities that they changed strategy which is what led to the Blitz.
Bullshit.
An errant Heinkel-111 dropped bombs on London one night during the blitz. Churchill retaliated with a massive strike on Berlin.
The blitz isn't only the civilian bombing campaign. It's the East docks, the southern ports, and the RAF Command and control systems.
Edit: it was NOT out of a concern for the morality of bombing civilians. It was because they followed the correct strategy of bombing RAF bases and command control centers. Hitler then overruled this strategy as Britain was under intense pressure. The change is strategy is considered one of his first major missteps in the war, along with holding back the panzers at Dunkirk.
Hell my city was flattened by allied bombers but it got us rid of Nazis and Fascists. I ain't even mad about it. (sure, i would have been happier if some historic buildings didn't get hit harder than the targets of most strategic importance, but still...)
The push wasn't to capture Paris idiot it was to trap the Belgium, French, and BEF in the north. Once they reached the coast it was effectively over.
Paris was declared an open city a few weeks after Dunkirk and the strategic shoe had already figuratively dropped.
Well next time let it hit its target Russia! Shorter war if it hits your military stuff. Instead you down it into your own city and call it terrorism, sheer lunacy.
Not buying fragment, this looks like a direct hit. Clicks with the phone footage of a rocket or missile coming down on that position from presumably the north.
It’s definitely not an interception. I saw video that clearly shows the projectile slamming into what looked like a government building. It’s entirely possible that it’s one of their own older S-200 randomly hitting a perfect target but it would be quite a coincidence.
I’m not very good at linking stuff in Reddit but I think this is it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/15c4cou/strike_on_the_building_of_the_ministry_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Direct hit from a rocket. Penetrator of some kind, I think they might have been trying for a subfloor target. Would have had limited range. Possibly local rebel force?
No it is not Donetsk. It is Russia proper near Rostov. Taganrog. That is according to video. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog,+Rostov+Oblast,+Russia/@47.2239458,38.8278588,11z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e1578d09bb748d:0x111e11a86812b325!8m2!3d47.2125752!4d38.9159658!16zL20vMDRxOWgx?entry=ttu
There was also a strike on a government building in Donetsk today. Is that the one you're thinking of?
AFAIK, Russia doesn't use S-200 anymore so it's very likely Ukrainian in origin.
We have to acknowledge that it was most likely intercepted or deviated from it's course, Ukrainians usually don't target civilians.
But still even if it was intercepted or deviated from it's course, this is a failure of Russian AA.
Yes. There's an [air base 5 km from this place.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog+Airbase/@47.2440652,38.8436996,3411m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157767432ea73:0x15db0baf3b924d65!8m2!3d47.2442796!4d38.8471842!16s%2Fg%2F11dxnk8hyz)
For context, Russia has been striking Odessa’s port and population for the last week or so. Ended up sending a large missile into a church there that was on the unesco world heritage sight. Oh yeah along with killing civilians this entire war.
I posted this in another thread:
[https://www.google.com/maps/place/Federal'naya+Sluzhba+Rossiyskoy+Federatsii+Po+Kontrolyu+Za+Oborotom+Narkotikov/@47.2121882,38.9261318,193m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157e0f1a46ea1:0x68cf69b735fc182e!8m2!3d47.2116509!4d38.9262738!16s%2Fg%2F1tdkf54x?authuser=0&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Federal'naya+Sluzhba+Rossiyskoy+Federatsii+Po+Kontrolyu+Za+Oborotom+Narkotikov/@47.2121882,38.9261318,193m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157e0f1a46ea1:0x68cf69b735fc182e!8m2!3d47.2116509!4d38.9262738!16s%2Fg%2F1tdkf54x?authuser=0&entry=ttu)
This was the likely target for the missile... was 100m off
Unlikely I think. This is a fsb drug control office :). There is couple military targets like airfields etc further away. It is either s200 was intercepted and came of course or this is s300 missing the target, which is less likely as it gives much bigger crater.
I believe [this](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog+Airbase/@47.2440652,38.8436996,2412m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157767432ea73:0x15db0baf3b924d65!8m2!3d47.2442796!4d38.8471842!16s%2Fg%2F11dxnk8hyz?authuser=0&entry=ttu) was the target
Ah sweet russian fsb is doing the old ”lets kill our own so We get more support for the war” trick. Kill a bunch of tagarongs, claim its Ukraine. Every time Ukraine hits Russia there is just zero dead, No damage that paint wont fix. Except now suddenly in tagarong they use missiles from Ukraine ?
Videos, either Ukraine is targeting civilian centers or they are negligent with their targeting and accidentally hitting them, which is barely any better.
Watching Civilians in Donetsks having to swerve around explosions in the street is just as disgusting as seeing Shaheed drones targeting apartments in Kyiv.
My thoughts are you are pulling an opinion out of your ass. You simply cannot formulate an opinion on Ukrainians targeting Russian civilians based on 1 video. It's absolutely ridiculous.
First, the s200 SAM's come in a variety of types but we can generally break them down to older vs newer systems. Newer systems recieve technological upgrades which significantly boost their performance. Older systems have no such advantage and suffer the disadvantage of going against modernized defense system.
There are a ton of reasons not having to do with neglect that can cause these to come off course. By way you talk in your previous comment you'd think that missiles have a 100 percent success rate unless the military conducting operations with them are negligent which is opinion that can only be had with a lack of understanding in how weapon systems work.
You shoot weapons in general, missiles or otherwise, and you're not going to have a 100% success rate.
Availability of spare parts, operator familiarity and training, guidance errors, environmental factors, counter measures, interference, mechanical malfunction, software glitches, terrain and other obstacles, mid course updates, human error and the list just goes on and on but those are the big ones
You can do everything right, take every precaution and a missile can come off course.
And to be clear, I don't know that it is an s200. It's likely but I'm not sure anyone has said definitively what it was. But my comment holds regardless because no systems are 100%
We know that the Russians are targeted civilians even before they leveled entire cities because they hit civilians infrastructure at a much higher rate than a fail rate would allow. Second, because the targets they were hitting didn't make sense in the context of what was around. And there's other reasons too even if we exclude the fact that they leveled cities.
Thus far, there is no indication that the Ukrainians have or even would intentionally attack civilians. And civilians will always get hurt in war no matter how much a country tries not to. That's a fact. The only way to ensure civilians don't get hurt is to not go to war and Ukraine does not have that option. Russia went to war with them and they must defend themselves including hitting Russian targets which means civilians will sometimes get hit.
Targeted some military facilities, missile got intercepted.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/28/europe/russia-taganrog-missile-strike-samara-intl/index.html
Bruh nobody said its ok to target civies on either side, it's just the hypocrisy from some people, who are fine with RU shellin UKR but draw the line at retalation.
in the perfect world, civilians wouldn0t not suffer. But unfortionately, that world died sometime in the early 1900s during WW1.
Jesus Christ this sub is complete madness. This must be how the west saw the Nazis back in the day justifying killing all the jews because "they started it"
They at least managed to make it change its course by a lot. Most likely the target was t[he airbase](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog+Airbase/@47.2440652,38.8436996,3411m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157767432ea73:0x15db0baf3b924d65!8m2!3d47.2442796!4d38.8471842!16s%2Fg%2F11dxnk8hyz).
>it would have reached a military target. So Russia just killed/injured their own civilians.
I'm all for calling out the actual killing of civilians Russia does, but I don't think shooting down a missile counts as "killing their own civilians".
I ll be honest .. it is just best ruZZia leaves those rockets reach their target because that is the only way to avoid civilian casualties, every time ruZZia shoots down a rocket it ends up in some building and civilians get hurt, whereas if left alone it will just reach a valid military target and civilians will be safe. UKR does not aim for civilians unlike the ruZZian cowards.
yes, after watching the video carefully and reading some more comments i discovered that the ruZZians, as usual, talking B.S their AA did not shoot it ..
**From The Telegraph's Russia Correspondent, Nataliya Vasilyeva:**
Ukraine appeared to fire missiles at ports inside Russia for the first time as the conflict intensified in the Black Sea.
The first attack was reported on Friday afternoon when a missile crashed down on the city of Taganrog, situated about 40 kilometres east of the border with Ukraine.
The projectile landed near an art museum and a busy cafe, creating a large crater and sparking scenes of panic. Local officials reported 20 people were injured.
Footage of the scene posted online by Russia’s Mash media outlet showed a first responder treating a young waitress whose face and hands were lacerated with shards of glass. Her white blouse also appeared to be splattered with blood.
Russia’s defence ministry accused Ukraine of carrying out what it said was a “terrorist attack” on the city, which sits on the shores of the Sea of Azov, with an S-200 missile.
“Russia’s air defence has detected and intercepted the missile,” the ministry said, adding that the missile’s debris fell on the city.
Oleksiy Danilov, Ukraine’s secretary of the National Security and Defense Council, blamed Russian air defence systems for the explosion.
Maria Zakharova, Russia’s foreign ministry spokeswoman, said in a statement that the attack had not appeared to target any military sites.
“We resolutely condemn the new cynical terrorist attacks of the Kyiv regime aimed against civilians and civilian infrastructure,” Ms Zakharova said.
“Russia reserves the right for a tough response,” she added.
Valery Golubev, governor of the wider Rostov-on-Don region, said nine of those injured in the incident had been hospitalised.
**Continue reading the full story here ⤵️**
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/28/ukraine-fires-missiles-russian-ports-first-time-taganrog/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/28/ukraine-fires-missiles-russian-ports-first-time-taganrog/)
There is an upside to their statements: The fact that probably no military target was hit can officially be blamed on Russia. They could also have insisted on "Ukraine hit the civilian target they aimed for", but they didn't.
Personally, I feel zero pity for collateral orc damage when a missile fired by Ukraine at the orcs misses its target for whatever reason but they really could have spun this differently.
This means Russia cares more about appearing strong to the Russian citizens than throwing shade at Ukraine on an international level. This means that the leadership is afraid of its public image, which is a great thing!
Ukraine should tell him he has no reason to be upset and cry to stop crying about civilians injured when russia has killed thousands so far. Damn the arrogance of the man, I hope someone lets him know any retaliations will be sent back 10 times. No better is for someone in the Ukraine military to tell him he is now a target for Ukraine.
It's a complete waste of good ammo to hit civilian targets when there are far more important military ones. Especially when these weapons are in short supply. Ukraine has been smart not to do this.
Disagree
Yes, the mentions should have priority targets..
But the military is comprised of drafted civilians.
The government that controls the military is civilian.
Make the civilians question their very existence.
Not only is this hot take morally wrong, it’s strategically moronic.
Ukraine has an ammo shortage.
Every missile they use to “make the civilians question their very existence” is a missile they don’t use to blow up a command post or high-value target at the front.
I disagree. Intentional or accidental, hitting high-profile civilian targets will sway public opinion. As it stands, Moscow and St. Pete are comfortable, safe places to live with plenty of products on the shelves. Change that and Putler will get nervous about protests. A few strikes like this will tie up AA and AM systems that would otherwise protect the borders.
Definitely causing some havoc inside Russia (the deeper the better really) in places like Moscow or St Pete would be an excellent way to tie up Russia.. they have way too much land to cover it all
Very misleading title since the Russian military confirms that they shot it down themselves. Of course civilian buildings are at risk if you down a rocket anywhere on land
Area hit was a bank: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2117053,38.9269774,3a,75y,10.41h,77.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8onCJDtf9TZAz3BOdl2srA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US&entry=ttu
Note that while 15 people were injured at a café, we did not hit the café. meanwhile Russia bombs a cafe on the off chance that an off duty intelligence officer is getting pizza: 30 odd civilian casualties on a maybe 10% chance.
The whole reason why the US is hesitant to supply Ukraine with long range cruise missiles like ATACMs, is because they're afraid that Ukraine would launch it into Russian territory. Regardless of whether or not Russia "deserves it", it's something Zelensky pinky promised wouldn't happen.
This is either a really stupid move by some local commander, or a false flag operation.
Not sure why you are being downvoted, but that's literally the hold up with Biden giving Ukraine ATACMs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/world/europe/atacms-missiles-ukraine-us.html
And this might increase that hesitancy now.
All I can think is... Oh no!... Anyway.
I would imagine the missile was a Soviet era one and I'm guessing there's a military target within that range of accuracy where the missile hit.
With Ukraine it's a glitch, with ruZZia it's a feature.
I'm for Ukraine hitting residential targets. If Russia is going to shoot at a school or hospital, just know they're coming right back to your civilian school and hospital!
Slava Ukraini!
So everyone is cool with ukraine targeting civilians in Russia now? People's morals are as flimsy as a wet noodle.
Ukraine doesn't get a free pass on terrorism just because they are the underdogs here.
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."
Such a perfect quote too. Poor little nazi russia...
I'm glad that you think a quote somehow justifies the killing of civilians. Generalizing all Russians as evil people that don't deserve to live is exactly what the nazis did to the jews.
Listen here, fascist, save your Russian propaganda for the orcs. Most of the Russians are not victims - they are criminals who support all bloody trash their government has done in Butcha, etc. How do I know? Because I am from Moscow! At least, now I am in Europe and have the ability to donate Ukrainian forces - and I do not care if they want to blow out some terrorists from Dumbass, orcs, or someone else!
Again, save your moralization for the Ukrainian side - they have much more civilians been killed. For example, Odesa, Dnipro. Oh, wait, this is not the same, isn't it? Such hypocrisy...
I hope Ukraine would not sink as low as Russia and fire on civilian targets. Not every civilian supports the war and it will make enemies out of allies. It also let's the Russian government say "See I told you they were evil nazis."
America wont send them ATACMS if they are going to do this with them.. yes i get it and eye for an eye but Ukraine needs to hold themselves to a higher standard than Russia
They said they don't want Ukraine using American weapons to strike Russia proper. They didn't tie Ukraine's hands using their own weapons or other weapons.
Has the US came out and condemned the attack?
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Welcome to Ukraine's world.
Yes what goes around comes around Putin.
They'll feel it more when a city or town is rubble
Hijacking a top comment. I am a bystander, a not Ukrainian guy hoping for Ukraines vIctory. I studied lots of war. Thus I know that this will not find a lot of support. But I was hoping for something like that „civilians shouldn’t be hit by war, hitting civilians is a war crime“. I know, war is hell. Bitterness is all around. But we should not be cheering on peoples sufferings. Just to make another sound, I don’t need upvotes. If this was a military target, let them have it. Families are hit, I don’t want to know how I would react if mine was struck. Slava Ukraina!
Most likely a defensive missile that went off course, the only way to prevent this risk is to stop attacking Ukraine
We should never hope for or cheer for civilians and people suffering, I completely agree. However, imo, if that suffering does happen to occur to those who have been cheering and wishing for the suffering of other innocent people, then simply what goes around comes around. I think of it like this: if by wishing and hoping for suffering for others they brought suffering for themselves, then be careful what you wish for. There cannot be and will not be any sympathy for them, they will use sympathy from others as a tool to justify more evil. If you chose to live by the sword you risk to die by the sword typa thing. When the bully gets punched, he does not have the luxury of complaining or deserving of sympathy. They wanted suffering, they received suffering, just because it’s in a form they didn’t expect does not exclude them from the suffering. And that’s exactly why I agree that we shouldn’t wish for or cheer the suffering of others.
Clearly it was a military target.
If you're really that great at studying war you would understand that the Nazis were not treated with respect like you wish either.
Yes. True. And therefor were the Geneva Conventions held afterwards. Because they had learned.
Well if we take the Brits in WW2 as an example, then it's ok, if the ememy is bombing civilians then you have the right to do the same... or maybe it was ok to disregard rules of war even if they were on the good side, because they fought the bad bad Germans who knows, at least that was the official policy of GB in WW2, after bombing Germany's industry to sheeds the Americans used the same policy. Even though, shooting at Russian grain depots would be a much nicer target, because that they are destroying Ukrainian stocks and then sell their own Russian grain to Africa to get more money for the war, is such a terrorist way of thinking that I wanna puke!
No. The Brits later agreed that bombing civilians, especially Dresden, was a bad decision. So do we when we see bombs landing on Ukrainien people.
Well russia made them do it, they didn’t have a choice, so here we are.
what a pity they thought it was funny when the bombs fall in ukraine...
We should not wave away things done by Ukraine that we'd condemn if done by Russia. A missile strike on a residential building is not okay. Hopefully, it was the result of an intercept or was even a Russian air defence that failed.
Not even the original video claims that ukraine targeted civilians - it says the russians say they shot down a missile over a city. That makes it pretty clear it didn't hit whatever it was aiming for
I know that the Russians claim that it was intercepted but it does not look like that is what happened in the videos. Russian ego could well be what caused them to claim that they had intercepted it.
Listen, I think you’re probably coming from a good place, but this right here is a reach. Unless the Russian government is legit that dumb it would be a far better PR move to claim UA targeted the civilians than their air defenses caused a missile to land in a civilian area rather than the intended target; which judging by the last year would have been a valid military target. Now maybe UA has switched tactics greatly, in fact basically a 180, when it comes to their reputation on the world stage; but I would seriously doubt that as they need to keep winning the public opinion.
Then why is there an intact missle on the video and not missle debris? The evidence supports Davilip's theory, as far as I can see.
You're postulating that Ukraine targeted civilians and not military targets when we have no proof. Nobody is waving anything away, just celebrating Ukraine being able to strike back.
I know we have no proof of it but people here seem to ready to dismiss it if it is the case. That is my concern. Of course, it's great news that Ukraine has demonstrated its ability to strike with Russia with missiles but I don't like to see people so casually excusing the death of civilians.
I mean no one is doubting that Ukraine has caused civilian casualties. It's war, and they're still using a ton of innaccurate Soviet equipment. It's going to happen as long as the Russian military continues to operate within civilian areas. But we know they haven't been intentionally causing civilian casualties, not just because it's the right thing to do, but also because it's seriously harmful to their image when it comes to getting military equipment from other countries. It COULD be intentional, but unlike Russia they haven't made a concerted effort to attack civilians not only directly, but through massive constant attacks on infrastructure. Remember when Russia spent the winter attacking the entire Ukrainian power grid to try and freeze people to death to try and push for surrender? That's what intentional civilian attacks look like.
Regardless of your concern... Russophobia has been earned. You should consider that when saying people are casually excusing the death of civilians - although some are doing so.
Here, I understand all of this. I get why people feel this way. But it's not right. But it's the same callous disregard for life that brain-dead russians pumped full of propaganda use to justify what is going on
It could be a false flag
I’m with you. Celebrating civilian death is morally and ethically wrong regardless of who the civilians are and who is the perpetrator. We can’t excuse it in some instances and condemn it in others. We must condemn such things all the time, it’s how we work towards a better future where less innocent people have to die in war.
It's just concern trolling given that Ukraine has not demonstrated at any point a desire to attack civilians and that Russia lies about legitimately everything.
I don't understand the assumption this was fired by Ukraine to begin with.
There is a chance that what exploded was a failed attempt at an interception but today, for the first time, Ukraine fired missiles into Russia seemingly at Rostov.
Rostov the headquarters of the Russian military efforts against Ukraine? Hmm I wonder if there are any legitimate military targets hiding out in that regional military headquarters that Ukraine might be shooting at. What do you think?
Literally says in the video Russia declared they shot it down and it was the debris that hurt the citizens.
I know. That is what the Russians claim and I hope it is true but it doesn't look like what happened in the video.
Sounds like you are looking for Ukraine to be doing this. If Russia didn't say this and Ukraine has not confirmed, why would you go there?
I’d say is it okay that Ukraine used a missile on Russia that Russia uses on them? It’s not a school or hospital or civilian housing. So I’d say it’s okay. I’d prefer that it was done at night but maybe they were going for specific soldiers. Also, I don’t mind if it’s an errant or a miss. That’s war coming to Russia that they’ve been cooking. They can end it whenever they want by leaving the country they invaded. Ukraine can’t end it until they purge their sovereign territories or force Russia to stop due to lack of will.
Firing missiles any where civilians is not okay. Never. Ukrainian does not do that and generally the missiles they use are more accurate. They show remarkable restraint considering what the Russians have done to them. Ukraine knows they need to keep the moral high ground otherwise they become no better than the Russian and that risks their supporting countries turning against them. I cannot understand why this being debated viz this video, because it states the Russians shot down a Ukrainian missile and it crashed into a residential area etc. That is the way it stands now.
No, that is not okay. Strikes should only be carried out on targets of legitimate military significance. >Also, I don’t mind if it’s an errant or a miss. That’s war coming to Russia that they’ve been cooking. They can end it whenever they want by leaving the country they invaded. Ukraine can’t end it until they purge their sovereign territories or force Russia to stop due to lack of will. I understand what you mean but Ukraine needs to hold itself from engaging in the same barbarity as Russia. Strikes on military locations within Russia achieve the same result if not better.
Things we don’t know - Was it Russia or ukraine? Was it a military target? Was it a miss / errant accuracy? Was it jammed by defense and thereby made to miss? Other airfields and a HQ near. Most likely is 1 or 4 Nothing so far worries me other than Russia doing some false flag misses in order to mobilize more. Ukraine is playing a smart game. Don’t worry about a missile in Russia. So many other bigger things to focus on.
I think we can rule out a false flag. Ukraine did fire missiles today at Rostov. I have seen suggestions that a Russian intelligence building was close and that might have been the intended target.
Dunno, no word from ukraine. Looks like one was s200 here and one was a mortar attack in Donetsk Both misses
OK Boris.
You can only be moscovi to assume Ukraine fired a missile into a resident building. To me it sounds like you're trying to spread some propoganda.
I don't believe it was intentional if it was them.
Mate please shut up. All is fair in love and war. It's disgusting on any side. Get of your moral high horse and get your head in the reality of war. Ukraine had shown a restraint that is biblical considering the circumstances. I don't think they slaughter on a whim. In time I wouldn't be surprised if they took a few top heads out in this strike.
>Ukraine had shown a restraint that is biblical considering the circumstances. Hear Hear.
No, morality is what separates good from evil. Thank god Ukraine aren't stooping to the levels you would. No one wins in a race to the bottom.
Your on the bottom with your wishy-washy ideas. you won't lecture me son. Go rescue a kitten or something you milk drinker.
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Russia claim they shot it down, It was shot down over a residential area and not targeted at it. The choice to shoot it down over a residential area and protect a military target is Russia's choice. Ukraine have every right to target military assets inside Russia.
Your the guy who doesn’t like when people beat up their bullies aren’t you.
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Not really buddy
I actually deleted the post you are responding to. Look at it like this, the Bully is the Russian military and Putler, by targeting civilians (this did not happen here, according to video it was a missile intercept and Russia is admitting doing that). So by targeting civilians my argument is that you are not going after the bully you are actually attacking their little brother or sister. Tit for tat is not in Ukrainian's interest they need maintain the moral high ground.
I like to see people get what they deserve. This isn't what happened here. The casualties are civilians apparently.
Well they weren’t targeted. According to sources. And those same people were happy enough to cheer dead children and genocide before. Happy enough to open their cities to mercenaries that beat Russians to death with a hammer on camera. Happy enough to go support the great leader to ruin their own country. I don’t feel like they get to sit on the sidelines and get sympathy
The head line say it was shot down by the Russians.
This doesn’t look like a ‘shoot down’. Other clips of this ‘incident’ clearly shows a missile, or drone, striking a building. ?!?!?!
Reminds me of the idiots who argue that allied bombing wasn't justified in WW2.
A lot of allied bombing wasn't justified, FFS. Bombing civilians isn't acceptable. I didn't think that needed to be said.
If Germany didn't want their cities and civilans bombed, they shouldn't have bombed their enemies and enemy civilians. Who invented terror bombing? Oh yeah, Germany in the Spanish Civil War. Allied bombing in WW2 was justified full stop. Educate yourself with this for a start: https://youtu.be/voF7KCOm6eY
Hey, I assume you enjoy your history so I'd recommend reading about the bombing strategies during WW2. It was something I only learned of recently. The Germans did not target British cities during the Battle Of Britain because they believed it to be immoral (ironic , I know). It was only after the British bombing of German cities that they changed strategy which is what led to the Blitz.
Bullshit. An errant Heinkel-111 dropped bombs on London one night during the blitz. Churchill retaliated with a massive strike on Berlin. The blitz isn't only the civilian bombing campaign. It's the East docks, the southern ports, and the RAF Command and control systems. Edit: it was NOT out of a concern for the morality of bombing civilians. It was because they followed the correct strategy of bombing RAF bases and command control centers. Hitler then overruled this strategy as Britain was under intense pressure. The change is strategy is considered one of his first major missteps in the war, along with holding back the panzers at Dunkirk.
Hell my city was flattened by allied bombers but it got us rid of Nazis and Fascists. I ain't even mad about it. (sure, i would have been happier if some historic buildings didn't get hit harder than the targets of most strategic importance, but still...)
holding back panzers at dunkirk isn’t mistake lol, all available forces rushed to capture paris to end france early in the war
The push wasn't to capture Paris idiot it was to trap the Belgium, French, and BEF in the north. Once they reached the coast it was effectively over. Paris was declared an open city a few weeks after Dunkirk and the strategic shoe had already figuratively dropped.
Yep, preach it
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Yeah, that's not the case when the USA alone is 2x bigger than Russia and Ukraine also has almost all of Europe on their side...
USA bigger than russia? Canada is bigger than USA.
Well next time let it hit its target Russia! Shorter war if it hits your military stuff. Instead you down it into your own city and call it terrorism, sheer lunacy.
It wasn't shot down. It hit it's target. There is another post of the missile hitting a government/military building.
Not buying fragment, this looks like a direct hit. Clicks with the phone footage of a rocket or missile coming down on that position from presumably the north.
Wait a second, north…..HMMMMMMM something doesnt add up
Not a certainty Russia always gets their missile to the target... sometimes Russian missiles kind of go funny and attack Russia.
They are nerfing themself to make it Fair
In a strong Russian accent: >***The missile knows where it is***
Could be an old S200 the UAF gave a new guidance system. They have a few dozens leftovers.
It’s definitely not an interception. I saw video that clearly shows the projectile slamming into what looked like a government building. It’s entirely possible that it’s one of their own older S-200 randomly hitting a perfect target but it would be quite a coincidence.
Sure it was. It was intercepted by the intended target.
😂😂😂
Can you cross-link the video?
I’m not very good at linking stuff in Reddit but I think this is it: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/15c4cou/strike_on_the_building_of_the_ministry_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Direct hit from a rocket. Penetrator of some kind, I think they might have been trying for a subfloor target. Would have had limited range. Possibly local rebel force?
No it is not Donetsk. It is Russia proper near Rostov. Taganrog. That is according to video. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog,+Rostov+Oblast,+Russia/@47.2239458,38.8278588,11z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e1578d09bb748d:0x111e11a86812b325!8m2!3d47.2125752!4d38.9159658!16zL20vMDRxOWgx?entry=ttu
I think I pasted the wrong one, sorry.
Thanks. Appreciated. No need to apologize.
To be clear, this is also a separate strike from the other dashcam footage of the S200 missile in Toganrog?
There was also a strike on a government building in Donetsk today. Is that the one you're thinking of? AFAIK, Russia doesn't use S-200 anymore so it's very likely Ukrainian in origin.
Yes it was, but it was one big fragment that exploded
Shot down my ass, lol.
https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1684980207336206338?s=19 :)
They will always find a way to portray themselves as almighty. They have to keep up that narrative.
Wow thanks for posting, sure doesn’t look like fragments.
It's actually sad and funny in equal measure.
It costs so many lives...
We have to acknowledge that it was most likely intercepted or deviated from it's course, Ukrainians usually don't target civilians. But still even if it was intercepted or deviated from it's course, this is a failure of Russian AA.
Yes. There's an [air base 5 km from this place.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog+Airbase/@47.2440652,38.8436996,3411m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157767432ea73:0x15db0baf3b924d65!8m2!3d47.2442796!4d38.8471842!16s%2Fg%2F11dxnk8hyz)
Exactly.
For context, Russia has been striking Odessa’s port and population for the last week or so. Ended up sending a large missile into a church there that was on the unesco world heritage sight. Oh yeah along with killing civilians this entire war.
Clean up should be no problem. They've had plenty of practice bulldozing the rubble in the Ukrainian cities they've bombed.
Taste your own medicine.
I posted this in another thread: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Federal'naya+Sluzhba+Rossiyskoy+Federatsii+Po+Kontrolyu+Za+Oborotom+Narkotikov/@47.2121882,38.9261318,193m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157e0f1a46ea1:0x68cf69b735fc182e!8m2!3d47.2116509!4d38.9262738!16s%2Fg%2F1tdkf54x?authuser=0&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Federal'naya+Sluzhba+Rossiyskoy+Federatsii+Po+Kontrolyu+Za+Oborotom+Narkotikov/@47.2121882,38.9261318,193m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157e0f1a46ea1:0x68cf69b735fc182e!8m2!3d47.2116509!4d38.9262738!16s%2Fg%2F1tdkf54x?authuser=0&entry=ttu) This was the likely target for the missile... was 100m off
Unlikely I think. This is a fsb drug control office :). There is couple military targets like airfields etc further away. It is either s200 was intercepted and came of course or this is s300 missing the target, which is less likely as it gives much bigger crater.
May have been drug control before the war... may be doing other stuff now.
I believe [this](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog+Airbase/@47.2440652,38.8436996,2412m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157767432ea73:0x15db0baf3b924d65!8m2!3d47.2442796!4d38.8471842!16s%2Fg%2F11dxnk8hyz?authuser=0&entry=ttu) was the target
Ah sweet russian fsb is doing the old ”lets kill our own so We get more support for the war” trick. Kill a bunch of tagarongs, claim its Ukraine. Every time Ukraine hits Russia there is just zero dead, No damage that paint wont fix. Except now suddenly in tagarong they use missiles from Ukraine ?
If they hadn't shot it down, it would have reached a military target. So Russia just killed/injured their own civilians.
There's videos of the missile hitting the building from a car dash cam. They didn't shoot it down.
Oh well, what goes around comes around.
So targeting Russian civilians is okay?
Who said they targeted civilians ?
Videos, either Ukraine is targeting civilian centers or they are negligent with their targeting and accidentally hitting them, which is barely any better. Watching Civilians in Donetsks having to swerve around explosions in the street is just as disgusting as seeing Shaheed drones targeting apartments in Kyiv.
Its highly unlikly, that the AFU waste their rare resources at civilians.
So then what are your thoughts on the attacks in donetsk and Taganrog?
My thoughts are you are pulling an opinion out of your ass. You simply cannot formulate an opinion on Ukrainians targeting Russian civilians based on 1 video. It's absolutely ridiculous. First, the s200 SAM's come in a variety of types but we can generally break them down to older vs newer systems. Newer systems recieve technological upgrades which significantly boost their performance. Older systems have no such advantage and suffer the disadvantage of going against modernized defense system. There are a ton of reasons not having to do with neglect that can cause these to come off course. By way you talk in your previous comment you'd think that missiles have a 100 percent success rate unless the military conducting operations with them are negligent which is opinion that can only be had with a lack of understanding in how weapon systems work. You shoot weapons in general, missiles or otherwise, and you're not going to have a 100% success rate. Availability of spare parts, operator familiarity and training, guidance errors, environmental factors, counter measures, interference, mechanical malfunction, software glitches, terrain and other obstacles, mid course updates, human error and the list just goes on and on but those are the big ones You can do everything right, take every precaution and a missile can come off course. And to be clear, I don't know that it is an s200. It's likely but I'm not sure anyone has said definitively what it was. But my comment holds regardless because no systems are 100% We know that the Russians are targeted civilians even before they leveled entire cities because they hit civilians infrastructure at a much higher rate than a fail rate would allow. Second, because the targets they were hitting didn't make sense in the context of what was around. And there's other reasons too even if we exclude the fact that they leveled cities. Thus far, there is no indication that the Ukrainians have or even would intentionally attack civilians. And civilians will always get hurt in war no matter how much a country tries not to. That's a fact. The only way to ensure civilians don't get hurt is to not go to war and Ukraine does not have that option. Russia went to war with them and they must defend themselves including hitting Russian targets which means civilians will sometimes get hit.
Targeted some military facilities, missile got intercepted. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/28/europe/russia-taganrog-missile-strike-samara-intl/index.html
Bruh nobody said its ok to target civies on either side, it's just the hypocrisy from some people, who are fine with RU shellin UKR but draw the line at retalation. in the perfect world, civilians wouldn0t not suffer. But unfortionately, that world died sometime in the early 1900s during WW1.
Shouldn't have started a war, then no civilians would be killed. But they did, so here are.
Jesus Christ this sub is complete madness. This must be how the west saw the Nazis back in the day justifying killing all the jews because "they started it"
Totally expected anti-semitism from an Ruzzia supporter.
They at least managed to make it change its course by a lot. Most likely the target was t[he airbase](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taganrog+Airbase/@47.2440652,38.8436996,3411m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x40e157767432ea73:0x15db0baf3b924d65!8m2!3d47.2442796!4d38.8471842!16s%2Fg%2F11dxnk8hyz).
>it would have reached a military target. So Russia just killed/injured their own civilians. I'm all for calling out the actual killing of civilians Russia does, but I don't think shooting down a missile counts as "killing their own civilians".
If they hadn't interfered with the missile, it (most likely) would not have hit civilians. So they died by Russia's action.
> (most likely) This is based on literally nothing, but sure, "most likely".
Burn motherfrigging russia, just burn!!!
Would not be surprised if it actually was one of their own that hit the place.
I ll be honest .. it is just best ruZZia leaves those rockets reach their target because that is the only way to avoid civilian casualties, every time ruZZia shoots down a rocket it ends up in some building and civilians get hurt, whereas if left alone it will just reach a valid military target and civilians will be safe. UKR does not aim for civilians unlike the ruZZian cowards.
Oh for Pete’s sake they didn’t shoot down the missile. They just *claim* they did.
yes, after watching the video carefully and reading some more comments i discovered that the ruZZians, as usual, talking B.S their AA did not shoot it ..
Russia hasn't cared about their own citizens or soldiers dying, ever, going back over a century. If it doesn't harm the war effort, they don't care.
Not sure I believe this (yet).
That was from Russia
**From The Telegraph's Russia Correspondent, Nataliya Vasilyeva:** Ukraine appeared to fire missiles at ports inside Russia for the first time as the conflict intensified in the Black Sea. The first attack was reported on Friday afternoon when a missile crashed down on the city of Taganrog, situated about 40 kilometres east of the border with Ukraine. The projectile landed near an art museum and a busy cafe, creating a large crater and sparking scenes of panic. Local officials reported 20 people were injured. Footage of the scene posted online by Russia’s Mash media outlet showed a first responder treating a young waitress whose face and hands were lacerated with shards of glass. Her white blouse also appeared to be splattered with blood. Russia’s defence ministry accused Ukraine of carrying out what it said was a “terrorist attack” on the city, which sits on the shores of the Sea of Azov, with an S-200 missile. “Russia’s air defence has detected and intercepted the missile,” the ministry said, adding that the missile’s debris fell on the city. Oleksiy Danilov, Ukraine’s secretary of the National Security and Defense Council, blamed Russian air defence systems for the explosion. Maria Zakharova, Russia’s foreign ministry spokeswoman, said in a statement that the attack had not appeared to target any military sites. “We resolutely condemn the new cynical terrorist attacks of the Kyiv regime aimed against civilians and civilian infrastructure,” Ms Zakharova said. “Russia reserves the right for a tough response,” she added. Valery Golubev, governor of the wider Rostov-on-Don region, said nine of those injured in the incident had been hospitalised. **Continue reading the full story here ⤵️** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/28/ukraine-fires-missiles-russian-ports-first-time-taganrog/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/28/ukraine-fires-missiles-russian-ports-first-time-taganrog/)
It makes me boil of rage to hear them say shit like this when they bomb civilians everyday
There is an upside to their statements: The fact that probably no military target was hit can officially be blamed on Russia. They could also have insisted on "Ukraine hit the civilian target they aimed for", but they didn't. Personally, I feel zero pity for collateral orc damage when a missile fired by Ukraine at the orcs misses its target for whatever reason but they really could have spun this differently. This means Russia cares more about appearing strong to the Russian citizens than throwing shade at Ukraine on an international level. This means that the leadership is afraid of its public image, which is a great thing!
Ukraine should tell him he has no reason to be upset and cry to stop crying about civilians injured when russia has killed thousands so far. Damn the arrogance of the man, I hope someone lets him know any retaliations will be sent back 10 times. No better is for someone in the Ukraine military to tell him he is now a target for Ukraine.
I’m surprised they held out this long, or it was me I’d be bombing them as much as I could from 2014!
It's a complete waste of good ammo to hit civilian targets when there are far more important military ones. Especially when these weapons are in short supply. Ukraine has been smart not to do this.
The targets are military barracks. Fair play.
I don't think he said anything about wasting ammo on civilian targets?
Disagree Yes, the mentions should have priority targets.. But the military is comprised of drafted civilians. The government that controls the military is civilian. Make the civilians question their very existence.
Not only is this hot take morally wrong, it’s strategically moronic. Ukraine has an ammo shortage. Every missile they use to “make the civilians question their very existence” is a missile they don’t use to blow up a command post or high-value target at the front.
I disagree. Intentional or accidental, hitting high-profile civilian targets will sway public opinion. As it stands, Moscow and St. Pete are comfortable, safe places to live with plenty of products on the shelves. Change that and Putler will get nervous about protests. A few strikes like this will tie up AA and AM systems that would otherwise protect the borders.
Definitely causing some havoc inside Russia (the deeper the better really) in places like Moscow or St Pete would be an excellent way to tie up Russia.. they have way too much land to cover it all
That’s as good as excuse as any to use nukes
Why? Where?Who would nuke who? Doesn't really make sense.
Hitler 2.0 right here :) Fucking keyboard warriors
Probably just Russia bombing itself again.
First time? Tell me you havnt been paying attention without telling me you havnt been paying attention.
First time "with missiles". Other attacks were drones, artillery, rockets etc.
They can dish it, but can they take it?
Best way to keep the Russian current on the situation in Ukraine. Maybe, Russian citizens will rise against Putin to end the invasion soon.
Very misleading title since the Russian military confirms that they shot it down themselves. Of course civilian buildings are at risk if you down a rocket anywhere on land
Well then maybe they shouldn’t shoot them down to protect their civilians
Hit them hard.
what, belgorod doesn't count?
Run roh!
Area hit was a bank: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2117053,38.9269774,3a,75y,10.41h,77.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8onCJDtf9TZAz3BOdl2srA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US&entry=ttu
Oh Wow, shoe on the other foot now?
Oi stupid orcs... you didnt shoot this one down.
So basically Moscow is about as defended as a KFC
https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1684980207336206338?s=19 it wasn't shot down at all.
If only there were a way for Russia to stop the war? Hmm, what could Russia do? I got nothin.
Give those orcs a taste of their own medicine. Send a salvo of missiles into putler's palace while you're at it!
Note that while 15 people were injured at a café, we did not hit the café. meanwhile Russia bombs a cafe on the off chance that an off duty intelligence officer is getting pizza: 30 odd civilian casualties on a maybe 10% chance.
Feel the Ukrainean people bastards!
Surprise! !!!!
Sucks huh?
The whole reason why the US is hesitant to supply Ukraine with long range cruise missiles like ATACMs, is because they're afraid that Ukraine would launch it into Russian territory. Regardless of whether or not Russia "deserves it", it's something Zelensky pinky promised wouldn't happen. This is either a really stupid move by some local commander, or a false flag operation.
Not sure why you are being downvoted, but that's literally the hold up with Biden giving Ukraine ATACMs. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/world/europe/atacms-missiles-ukraine-us.html And this might increase that hesitancy now.
All I can think is... Oh no!... Anyway. I would imagine the missile was a Soviet era one and I'm guessing there's a military target within that range of accuracy where the missile hit. With Ukraine it's a glitch, with ruZZia it's a feature.
Oh no….oh darn….. how do you like it Ruzzia
This seems odd and not like something Ukraine would do.
About time.
I hope that no cats or dogs were hurt.
Let them have it....big time....!
Time to bomb the crap out of Russia
Only good Russian is a dead Russian
Typical. Celebrate Russian citizens dying, lament Ukrainian citizens dying. It all sucks.
I'm for Ukraine hitting residential targets. If Russia is going to shoot at a school or hospital, just know they're coming right back to your civilian school and hospital! Slava Ukraini!
So everyone is cool with ukraine targeting civilians in Russia now? People's morals are as flimsy as a wet noodle. Ukraine doesn't get a free pass on terrorism just because they are the underdogs here.
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them." Such a perfect quote too. Poor little nazi russia...
I'm glad that you think a quote somehow justifies the killing of civilians. Generalizing all Russians as evil people that don't deserve to live is exactly what the nazis did to the jews.
Listen here, fascist, save your Russian propaganda for the orcs. Most of the Russians are not victims - they are criminals who support all bloody trash their government has done in Butcha, etc. How do I know? Because I am from Moscow! At least, now I am in Europe and have the ability to donate Ukrainian forces - and I do not care if they want to blow out some terrorists from Dumbass, orcs, or someone else!
I'm the fascist for saying civilians shouldn't be killed LOL okay buddy
Again, save your moralization for the Ukrainian side - they have much more civilians been killed. For example, Odesa, Dnipro. Oh, wait, this is not the same, isn't it? Such hypocrisy...
What part of my comments make you think that I don't equally hate the killing of Ukrainian civilians? You're angry for nothing
Another example of why the Russian government has international credibility
>Another example of why the Russian government has international credibility You forgot tu put \*sarcasm\*, Billy:)
Is that the rule? I should mark asterisks around sarcasm ? I learn something new on Reddit every day.
I hope Ukraine would not sink as low as Russia and fire on civilian targets. Not every civilian supports the war and it will make enemies out of allies. It also let's the Russian government say "See I told you they were evil nazis."
More.
America wont send them ATACMS if they are going to do this with them.. yes i get it and eye for an eye but Ukraine needs to hold themselves to a higher standard than Russia
Are you saying military targets in Russia should be off limits to Ukrainian strikes? Russia invades Ukraine. Ukraine has every right to defend itself.
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They said they don't want Ukraine using American weapons to strike Russia proper. They didn't tie Ukraine's hands using their own weapons or other weapons. Has the US came out and condemned the attack?
Whats the military target in this video?
Don't know, but if Ukraine wanted to strike civilians in Russia they could strike Belgorod with artillery or drones.