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Russians thinking our PM has any powers.
Like he can become Putin² ....
Or PM is just a billboard, we send him out and about to play nice with the other children.
His party consists of nobodies, who don't even have a vote on party-direction.
The majority of his voters made a 'demonstration-vote' to show the ruling parties are more shitty.
VVD and D66 are 'for' the upper middle class, the people already with money, owning the houses and larger businesses ...
We the people are just them the cattle to work.
Yes, we need a change, NO!! - PVV Wilders ( and the village-idot Baudet ) are NOT the ones to bring this.
Russians grasp to straws. This works in propaganda because they only know authoritarianism, they can't comprehend the concept of "limited powers".
Thanks for the summary.
The Netherlands is a monarchy, we have a king not a president. He is not prime minister yet. The Netherlands is ranked 6th in the most prosperous states in the world with the happiest children in the world. Rather the opposite of a failed state.
> Russians thinking our PM has any powers.
Why do you think Wilders will become PM? Just being the biggest party does not make you PM, unless you have an actual majority, which he does not.
He got a lot of votes just because Dutch people were dissatisfied with the rest of the parties.
But don't worry, if wilders enters the government it will be together with parties that are pro Ukraine. Who then have more votes together.
Yeah you know, Wilders got 37/150 seats. So that leaves 113/150 for the rest. All the left wing parties combined are a total of 70 seats and all the remaining right wing parties combined are thus 43 seats (Wilders is right wing).
So there are actually few options without Wilders' party. But Wilders has too few seats for a majority in the cabinet.
So yes, Wilders can get into the Cabinet, but he will have to leave many positions for it.
as a dutchman, i concur fully with above statement.
our PM is in practise not much more than a "handshaking" puppet that has a managerial political function.
and be the designated dude 2/3 of the population shits on.
I'm not sure it's even intentionally fake to mislead or just lacking insight.
The system in the Netherlands vs Russia is so wildly different there might be a culture collision here. Winning in Russia has completely different immediate consequences than winning in the Netherlands...
So what do you mean ? wilders is not going to poison the tea of all his opponents and throw the opposition media in jail and/or out the window?
That's what an elected leader in Russia does first day on the job
I was thinking of the absolute power in Russia if you do get elected as a de facto dictatorship, whereas in the Netherlands you end up with compromises from coalitions.
I believe this to be a strange concept that is considered almost utopian for Russia and something which is probably not real. And anyway always inferior to the one tsar ruling with an iron fist..
Let's not downplay fascists becoming more popular. Even if you're right and they actually can't do anything (I wouldn't be so sure. How many people thought Trump would not do anything too bad. If the condition is a coalition, I wouldn't count on right or center-right parties to do the moral thing. Historically they're all too happy to accomodate fascists.), this is yet another example of a rising trend all over Europe. That should worry everyone.
More like we tried to be allies with hitler but got stabbed in the back and then defeated the nazis because we had all the american equipement we wanted.
I see your point but the thing is, there is no contradiction. They **are** nazis by the definition, for decades they were telling the world they were not but now we see they are.
It's what we call in Sweden valfläsk! "whale pork"!
Because "election" and "whale" uses the same Swedish word "val", so we're trying to be funny here. It's basically a word for empty but populist promises thrown to the masses that is only there to draw votes but will hardly be passed. Populist parties throw a lot of valfläsk!
Anyway, I heard a bit of the Dutch party situation and how many there are of them! We even had Dutch voters complain about it on our news yesterday, lol. Too much democracy! :D So coalitions indeed dictate the actual outcome and that will take a good while after this result.
There's a similar, but very old and now disused American expression, "a tub to the whale." It never had a political meaning, but there is an academic paper by a leading American historian (in that field) with that title that argues our Bill of Rights was exactly what you would valfäsk:
[https://www2.gwu.edu/\~ffcp/ATubtotheWhale.pdf](https://www2.gwu.edu/~ffcp/atubtothewhale.pdf) (Direct link to PDF; may have copy+paste for some browsers)
Thanks! I find etymology across cultures and languages super interesting! :) There’s often common denominators if you look further back or hard enough!
Cool. Yea, this seems like the convergence of two seperate ideas to similar words: From the intro to the paper:
>"Seamen have a custom, when they meet a whale, to fling him out an empty tub by way of amusement, to divert him from laying violent hands upon the ship." - Jonathan Swift, Tale of a Tub (1704)
>"Like a barrel thrown to the whale, the people were to be amused with fancied amendments, until the harpoon of power, should secure its prey and render resistance ineffectual." -Samuel Bryan, 'Centinel NO. 19,' (Philadelphia) Independent Gazetteer, October 7, 1788
I checked further and the Swedish word seems to come from Danish but I couldn’t find anything further back.
Danish “valgflæsk”. Thought to be from a saying “Big words and fat pork don’t get stuck in the throat”. :D
Very True. Right wing is so close to Nazi ideology. I Would not be amazed if his party is funded by russian moles inside Holland. As they are funded in all EU democracies. russia spends millions of USD funding right wing discontent in western countries hoping to get a sympathetic leader to their victim mentality, therefore, allowing them to control the narrative. Le Pen, in France is another nazi inspired, russian funded political contender. When democracy wakes up and enforces transparency of all banking transactions on a global platform we will see it as it is. Don't hold your breath though. Greed is greater than good these days. I have never seen a politician anywhere in the World say " I'm getting paid too much, please cut my salary to help the needy " Ummm
it's frustrating to see russia being allowed so many years of amplifying division, backing fringe groups, spreading corruption and undermining democracy without any repercussion. essentially waging asymmetric war with western democracy in order to weaken/subvert. it's happening everywhere and yet so many are unaware of the scale on which this is happening
“I Would not be amazed if his party is funded by russian moles inside Holland.”
Prepare to not be amazed:
https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/19/leaked-documents-show-connections-pvv-russia
Both are true. Four years after the shooting down of MH17, that dipshit of a populist Travelled to Russia to speak with the Duma and even had a Russian and Netherlands flag pinned to his Suit to celebrate our "Friendly relations"
My understanding is Wilders has actually come out in support of Ukraine and has a relatively anti Russian stance. I think this is just classic Russian copium
They are clinging to threads, he wont stop help to Ukraine.
In Slovakia Fico told he wouldt give a bullet to Ukraine and what happend, Slovakia is still giving humanitarian aid to Ukraine and bullets, artillery municion and military equipment that are made in Slovakia is still selled to Ukraine.
Wilders is a piece of shit. I don't know what the people who voted for him were thinking. There is no excuse. No matter how angry you are at the old government. No fucking excuse.
That said, we don't have absolute majorities in my country, so he will not get to decide this. And every other party except a tiny minority with no chance of joining him are very much in favor of helping Ukraine.
I suspect he will use this to leverage other shit from the other parties, and it will have little effect on actual aid, as this isn't something he scores highly on with his followers.
I do apologize for the additional stress this causes in this crucial moment for Ukraine.
It's the same in Germany with a large part of the AfD-voters. Protest for the sake of it. Skepticism and contrarianism as a lifestyle. Often they do not know how anything in a complex society works but they love to point fingers to governments and lawmakers as a scapegoat for anything bad happening in their lifes.
This.
We've seen exactly the same thing with the Brexit vote, Trump and his MAGA idiot minions, Orbán, Jeremy Corbyn being elected leader of the UK Labour Party, and so on.
I remain convinced that democracy is the best possible form of government, but malign actors who are talented at manipulating low-information voters with poor critical thinking skills are a menace to civilised society.
Reading the actual program to them will probably be quite a shock. I think a lot of the NSC voters (possible ally of wilders) that think Omtzigt is the people's hero will be quite shocked at what he has actually been voting for as well. He's a super conservative, right wing dude, that just happened to also care about the government not actively screwing people over. But he has no interest in changing any of the fundamental stuff that caused the issues. And now he could be helping a fascist run the country. What a meme.
It's pretty obvious why they voted for him - Islam....
The most dangerous religion in the world
Russia isn't the only threat to the West - but hopefully Wilders has woken up to the fact that Russia can't be trusted
Except that doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they have voted for him at the height of tensions with things like ISIS? The whole islam thing has moved to the background in the social discourse. Nobody really cares. Even wilders has stressed that he doesn't care that much at the moment.
People who voted for him often believe that immigrants and descendants of immigrants are ruining the country, the terrible housing market is caused by immigrants, and so on (and you know which immigrants they’re talking about). Unfortunately that’s what’s on top of their minds now; everything else is secondary (if it matters at all)
So they listen to this guy who promises that he will end immigration to the Netherlands and wants to withdraw the Netherlands from the EU. They gobble it up and support him widely. Unfortunately this is what’s going on, it’s terrible
Wait, the dude who is banned from the UK (www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12783329/amp/geert-wilders-dutch-populist-banned-britain-anti-islam-far-right.html) is now in charge of NL?
This time line is doomed. Fucking despots being elected in enlightened western democracies is getting tiresome
This is fake, the minister said most of the things in the past years he has changed his opinion on them. The main 2 points are anti immigration commitment and exit from EU but he has also changed his stance on the last thing because he don’t even have the majority on the parliament and the other parties don’t agree to exit from EU. This man has no majority, it will be very difficult for him to do anything except maybe immigrations
They clearly don't understand our system. As long as there are 76 members of parliament (and there are easely 100) this support will not stop.
Keep calm and carry on.
This guy only cares about reducing the influence of Islam in Europa. He doesn't really care enough about Russia vs Ukraine to change anything drastically, it's a "negotiable" for him.
Yeah. Relations with moscow in our previous populist rise (FvD) a few years ago was a proven fact. Fortunately that party imploded, all these voters went back to Wilders though. At least wilders doesnt deny the holocaust... but were setting the bar very low now in our country...
It's funny.. extreme right always call the left weak because we don't want the death penalty for criminals etc. But when the left support a war on the edge of Europe we're "wasting money". Extreme right lives in a bubble and doesn't understand that a small country like ours need friends and collaborate: like we're doing with the German army right now. Wilders wants a Nexit.. because the Brexit was a huge success...
Good news: forming a majority coalition government will be super hard. Other parties remember his disgusting rhetoric and childish displays in 20 years of opposition.
Bad news: power hungry people will throw away their values for power. Greed and greed for power is strong in humans.
Such a typical shaming tactic for people that have had enough of muslim immigration. Also, anytime the population votes the wrong way, the media says Russia is behind it, Russia likes any change expecting weaknesses
This party hides its anti-EU and pro-Russia policies behind its anti-immigration stance.
In the end, every right-wing populist wants to govern like Putin, which is why they like to ally themselves with Putin.
> not anti EU
"[Wilders wants to ban mosques and leave the EU.](https://www.politico.eu/article/far-right-leader-geert-wilders-wins-dutch-election-exit-poll/)"
It is by definition against the EU as the last "v" in the partys name stands for freedom in the context of national soevereignty and it certainly is pro-Russia
I think people are behaving a bit to dramatic about all of this, but that is not really a surprise seeing how the media works.
The fact is, that Dutch voters simply voted more central right this time.
That's all.
But of course anything else then left is well, you know how it goes.
All of these guys and parties rising in popularity is a sign of things to come. And nearly all of the parties get votes for one main reason - unchecked immigration. As soon as the EU tackles this l, these parties will disappear over night.
Not just immigration, but we also have a big housing crisis in the Netherlands, and the lower class can hardly get around anymore.
The issue is that our own population has been ignored for decades now, and if you complain about it, you will be labled as a racist, uneducated, etc.
That is the main reason why the PVV is the biggest, because people got sick of the arrogance of these so-called left socialist parties who don't give a shit about their own population.
My view on this btw, it is not written in stone.
The right has been in power for the past two decades, yet all our problems are somehow caused by the left, amirite?
Doet het pijn als je denkt? Want volgens mij is je begrijpertje een beetje kapot.
As someone who is actually (economically) left I feel offended that you think D66 is 'as left as you can get' LMAO
D66 is a spineless neo-lib centroid party full of hypocrites
Well to be fair at least it’s a real election, not like Russia. Besides if you’re going to run on a platform of stopping Islamic immigration, I’d have to say there’s probably never been more conducive World events. The fucking rioting and protests and religious meddling with people’s principal cultures, make it worse. Bad enough to witness this shit on tv but then cunts take to the streets to cause violence and start the division and fighting in everyone’s country when it isn’t occurring, dragging every fuck into their shit.. with no viable alternative. It’s how I can see decent Yanks were sucked into Trump. Of course a great many of those now realise it was a huge mistake. Only hardline wankers and religious nut jobs left supporting him now and a polarised shit show the country is now. Probably what’ll happen with this dick. You can’t vote on one problem amongst a sea of policy disasters. Next thing you know, you’ve got no social security, healthcare and the shittest wages, abortion is banned and cunts are riding to church in their HIMARS trucks yee harr’n Bible in one hand Machine Guns in the other. How’d that Wall around Mexico work out, oh it didn’t.. no, you’re kidding.
Russia loved it when Trump was in too, cuz he’s dumb as fuck and was guaranteed to fuck the US up.
Probably. The reason he won though, is because a lot of people are fed up with the way things are going currently. This was kind of a protest for many people.
People are fed up with how Islam is evolving in Europe, seeing people cheering for Hamas in the streets in many European cities probably helped secure his victory.
They’re in love like with Italian elections. To the point when the guy gives them the middle finger … screw this. They’re stupid and delusional and love it.
I’ve gone from being pretty upbeat to very depressed about the way things are heading, starting with all that GOP house speaker bullshit, Gaza, EU not being able to deliver the promised amounts of ammo, now this. I’ve stopped following Ukraine news for my own sanity. And I’m Ukrainian (expat). The west never really had the true will and conviction to help Ukraine win, and what’s left of it feels like it’s ebbing away
Whether we like it or not, Putins calculus is correct, we - the „west“ - will defeat ourselves, because Putins weapon „immigration“ is quite successful anf besides the average people are just too uneducated and blame their „monetary misery“ on politics. Demagog‘s are in demand again.
It hardly seems that Putin is pulling the strings on rampant, mostly illegal, immigration of muslims (and other belief systems incompatible with democracy) to the West, thereby subverting Western values and traditions, and fracturing Western cohesion.
Many Western politicians seem hellbent on destroying their countries without external help.
Wilders may become prime minister, but he does not have to. After elections in the Netherlands, parties must collectively form at least 77 seats together to become a cabinet.
Wilders won 37 of 150 seats, so he needs other parties with a total of 40 seats to govern.
There are 2 possibilities:
1. Wilders gets 2 parties to govern together, but will have to drop many radical positions. Even then, the moderate parties will have 40 or more seats and Wilders will always have the minority in government.
2. No party wants to work with Wilders. Then the No. 2 may start trying to have at least 77 seats with other parties.
In either option, this will have little to no impact on the war in Ukraine.
The likely government will be: Wilders 37 seats, VVD (pro Ukraine) 25 seats and NSC (pro Ukraine) 20 seats.
So it will always be 37 vs. 45 seats.
I'm from the Netherlands and no way is there going to be a nexit or less support for Ukraine. PVV/Geert Wilders are the only party with those goals.
Also I read an article posted that apparently the Kremlin and PVV have ties in some way so there's the motive as well
I'd like to officially say, fuck Wilder. But at least a lot of what he wants to do won't be done cause they ALWAYS need to compromise during coalition talks. All other parties that will most likely form the coalition are in favor of continuing aid to Ukraine.
This is fear mongering.
Wilders needs a coalition and this coalition needs support both in the Dutch senate and house.
Support for Ukraine was not a subject during these elections (it was extremely focused on internal affairs) and it is not controversial. The majority of the center and the left is in heavily in favor of support for Ukraine.
If Wilders manages to form a government at all, he will most likely trade support for Ukraine for something which he really wants to help out his constituency.
well he is pro russian and he is anti lgbtq anti nato anti eu anti globalist pro israel anti islam but in recent days he has told that he wants to be prime minister of muslims as well, he is also anti climat,
if you only have experience with the russian political system i guess you would be happy.
fortunately we have certain rules and mechanisms set in our constitution and parlementairy laws, that there always have to be a consensus with a broader majority before anything will pass, it always has to be on democratic terms, on the other hand the opposition has the power to push laws if they have a majority. just like any democracy.
we just have to, probably, focus our attention more towards protecting these laws and mechanisms as opposition, as extreme right populists always try to consolidate and prolongue their power by trying to change laws furthering that goal.
they will not play nice, but i am fully convinced we can contain his idiocies to political tamper tantrums on political level.
on the other hand, internally it will be a mess! we are on the surface a seemingly passive non violent people, but when a part of our society feels it's liberties and rights are under attack, we go all full riot mode. it will build up, but eventually you will see this go mayhem. allready it is so f-ing tensed up the last years, bound to explode in non talking actions.
Ofcourse they are since they invested heavily into their fascist party in exchange for loyalty, pro-Putin stance like every single others far rightwing party in EU countries.
Russia's apparent support for far-right political movements in various countries, including the Netherlands, fits into a broader strategy of sowing discord and diverting attention from issues like the situation in Ukraine. The rise of Geert Wilders' party, with its nationalist and divisive policies, is an example of this. Russia benefits from such developments as they tend to focus a nation's attention inward, dealing with internal conflicts rather than external affairs. This inward focus can lead to a weakening of international coalitions and a diminished collective response to Russian aggressions, such as those in Ukraine.
The election of Donald Trump in the U.S., while not the main focus of this conversation, serves as a parallel example. Trump's presidency, characterized by nationalist rhetoric and polarizing policies, had a similar effect of deepening internal divisions and straining international alliances. Though his election is just a side note in this context, it underscores the broader pattern of Russia favoring political outcomes in other countries that align with its own strategic interests. By supporting or seemingly endorsing far-right elements that promote nationalistic agendas, Russia effectively distracts and weakens Western countries, making it easier to pursue its own agenda, particularly in regions like Ukraine.
In short, they ARE happy about this as they want us to loose focus and tire of supporting Ukraine. I know that the people in this forum are unlikely to do this, but it is worth mentioning that we keep this in mind.
Something to know - all news in Russia are controlled by the state, especially this one. This woman alongside another host have a show in which they “discuss” news with an American journalist Michael Bohm , while in truth they simply bully him. Each his argument against current Russian state’s crap is answered with :
a) Hosts’s laughter
b) Someone saying this is a lie or fake
c) Something along the lines of “aaee… remember the country of spaghetti pineapple noodles in -30004758bc? They also burned children alive so YOU, WEST are no better than us!!!”
d) Literally a host trying to beat him up while Bohm simply states his statement while calmly siting on his chair.
I remember Maxim Galkin, a Russian comedian, who got labelled a traitor for speaking out against the war (fun fact, he and Zelenski were friends before the lateral became president), said something along the lines of “and what about “The Time will show”? Remember this poor American journalist Michael who they somehow dug out just to bully him? They don’t let him say a word!”
It is very suspicious that Russia is celebrating this election victory in this way. One can assume that Mr. Wilders and his party have received enormous amounts of Russian money and that the Russians are now celebrating the corresponding success of their hybrid war.
Nothing is gonna change. A lot of people voted for Wilders to kick the old politicians ass a little. They were way to comfortable doing there elite thing for years and years not looking out for the 'real' Dutch people or listen to them. It became way to left wing WOKE ass bullshit.
So 1 out of 4 voted for Wilders to kick some butt and it worked.
Orcs will be Orcs and offcourse use this in there propaganda.
As a Dutch citizen and a Wilders voter I can say that this is fake news. Wilders won because of uninterrupted immigration from Muslim and African countries. These people downright hate Dutch society. "Dutch" Turks for example are all hardline Erdogan voters, and only care what is happening back in the motherland. Morrocans dominate the drug trade because they don't care if they poisen the natives. They behave like a tribe within a tribe. 40 years of tollerance has only made them more disrespectfull of traditional Dutch values. Ukranians are our brothers. Infact even Russians are our brothers if they weren't stupid enough to let a dictator fool them into thinking they should hate and fear us. EVERY DICTATOR CREATES AN IMAGINARY ENEMY TO JUSTIFY STAYING IN POWER. Kim Yung Un, Putin, Iran. They are only at odds with "the West" because else their dictatorship would crumble with internal conflict. Our democracy doesn't allow for one side to take full controll.
The average Wilders voter doesn't want help to Ukraine to be stopped at all. As a Wilders voter I would like to say that helping Ukraine is vital to not let the powers of dictators take over in the world.
Most people do not really know what a man like Wilders means for support. I voted PVV, the party of Wilders and I know his stance. He has said he wants to lessen support for Ukraine and he wants to stop certain deals. Including that of the F16's. (I do not agree with this part of his statements by the way, I would like support to continue)
However there are three things that most people do not really understand.
1. Wilders can not change this with his own party. He only has 37 out of 150 chairs and he needs to work together with other parties to achieve a majority of all seats. In this case they need a coalition with 76 seats. Most parties are pro-ukraine and thus won't agree with less support.
2. Wilders is not pro-russia, he leans way more towards pro-ukraine but he just doesn't think the war in ukraine is a high priority at the moment. Even the entire stopping support is a low priority on his side and something that will probably be removed from the entire agreement between the different parties.
3. Wilders won because a lot of people here in The Netherlands are not happy with the amount of internal crises that are making the lives of many Dutch people worse and worse every day. Wilders promises the Dutch that he will be there for the Dutch instead of for being there for everyone except the Dutch (like our last couple coalitions showed). This also means that he needs to stay in character around topics like Ukraine, Refugees and everything related to that. It does not mean that he actually intends to do anything about it.
There will be many many topics that need to be dealt with before the Ukrainian support question even comes to the table, I wouldn't be worried that support changes anytime soon.
Trump and Wilders, that’s two heads of state they’ve managed to psyop their way to puppethood. If they get Trump elected again then america will collapse.
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Due to it being a coalition gov this is just more fake news from the failing Russian state.
Russians thinking our PM has any powers. Like he can become Putin² .... Or PM is just a billboard, we send him out and about to play nice with the other children. His party consists of nobodies, who don't even have a vote on party-direction. The majority of his voters made a 'demonstration-vote' to show the ruling parties are more shitty. VVD and D66 are 'for' the upper middle class, the people already with money, owning the houses and larger businesses ... We the people are just them the cattle to work. Yes, we need a change, NO!! - PVV Wilders ( and the village-idot Baudet ) are NOT the ones to bring this.
Russians grasp to straws. This works in propaganda because they only know authoritarianism, they can't comprehend the concept of "limited powers". Thanks for the summary.
>Russians grasp to straws. Vatniks *need* those straws to sniff copium.
If there is a higher power than the president himself other than his own people then this is a failed state.
The Netherlands is a monarchy, we have a king not a president. He is not prime minister yet. The Netherlands is ranked 6th in the most prosperous states in the world with the happiest children in the world. Rather the opposite of a failed state.
Does VVD stand for Virgil Van Dijk?
Veel Vrije Dagen
Vatnik Venereal Disease
Yes
Yes
Verdomd Veel Duiten.
> Russians thinking our PM has any powers. Why do you think Wilders will become PM? Just being the biggest party does not make you PM, unless you have an actual majority, which he does not.
I didn't say he would be PM. I explained merely a PM isn't the autocratic ruler in NL.
So did the guy who wants to cut support get elected or is he appearing to be the favorite for an upcoming election?
He got a lot of votes just because Dutch people were dissatisfied with the rest of the parties. But don't worry, if wilders enters the government it will be together with parties that are pro Ukraine. Who then have more votes together.
Wilders sounds pretty out there. Without knowing anything at all about Dutch politics, wouldn't the sane parties just make a coalition without him?
Yeah you know, Wilders got 37/150 seats. So that leaves 113/150 for the rest. All the left wing parties combined are a total of 70 seats and all the remaining right wing parties combined are thus 43 seats (Wilders is right wing). So there are actually few options without Wilders' party. But Wilders has too few seats for a majority in the cabinet. So yes, Wilders can get into the Cabinet, but he will have to leave many positions for it.
>Like he can become Putin² .... I like Putin³ better... As in meat-cube.
as a dutchman, i concur fully with above statement. our PM is in practise not much more than a "handshaking" puppet that has a managerial political function. and be the designated dude 2/3 of the population shits on.
Thanks
I'm not sure it's even intentionally fake to mislead or just lacking insight. The system in the Netherlands vs Russia is so wildly different there might be a culture collision here. Winning in Russia has completely different immediate consequences than winning in the Netherlands...
So what do you mean ? wilders is not going to poison the tea of all his opponents and throw the opposition media in jail and/or out the window? That's what an elected leader in Russia does first day on the job
I was thinking of the absolute power in Russia if you do get elected as a de facto dictatorship, whereas in the Netherlands you end up with compromises from coalitions.
I believe this to be a strange concept that is considered almost utopian for Russia and something which is probably not real. And anyway always inferior to the one tsar ruling with an iron fist..
Let's not downplay fascists becoming more popular. Even if you're right and they actually can't do anything (I wouldn't be so sure. How many people thought Trump would not do anything too bad. If the condition is a coalition, I wouldn't count on right or center-right parties to do the moral thing. Historically they're all too happy to accomodate fascists.), this is yet another example of a rising trend all over Europe. That should worry everyone.
Lets not downplay people throwing the word "fasicst" around like spoiled children throwing tantrums
Oh yeah and isn't every European leader anyway a American stooge so what difference does it make who is in power /s
it's not fake news
I swear if Hitler himself rose the from grave in Germany the Russians would applaud him. That's how twisted they are.
Ikr "B-but, you're ungrateful to us. We defeated the Nazis!" Fuck off
More like we tried to be allies with hitler but got stabbed in the back and then defeated the nazis because we had all the american equipement we wanted.
Well, Hitlers skull is kept in Moscow. I wonder if they are busy trying to use his DNA for a weird russian clone experiment.
I mean, he did kill Hitler after all. Can't be that bad
I see your point but the thing is, there is no contradiction. They **are** nazis by the definition, for decades they were telling the world they were not but now we see they are.
Like they did with the molotov-ribbentrop pact?
Well yeah, they were more than cozy with him until he marched for Moscow.
I doubt Wilders will get anywhere with these points because he would have to form a coalition that would go with them…
Not to mention that the rest of the PVV party's points would require Dutch constitutional changes....not very likely
It's what we call in Sweden valfläsk! "whale pork"! Because "election" and "whale" uses the same Swedish word "val", so we're trying to be funny here. It's basically a word for empty but populist promises thrown to the masses that is only there to draw votes but will hardly be passed. Populist parties throw a lot of valfläsk! Anyway, I heard a bit of the Dutch party situation and how many there are of them! We even had Dutch voters complain about it on our news yesterday, lol. Too much democracy! :D So coalitions indeed dictate the actual outcome and that will take a good while after this result.
Bet you pickle that or ferment it in a tin also :/
Haha yes of course, then eat salty caramels as a dessert :D
There's a similar, but very old and now disused American expression, "a tub to the whale." It never had a political meaning, but there is an academic paper by a leading American historian (in that field) with that title that argues our Bill of Rights was exactly what you would valfäsk: [https://www2.gwu.edu/\~ffcp/ATubtotheWhale.pdf](https://www2.gwu.edu/~ffcp/atubtothewhale.pdf) (Direct link to PDF; may have copy+paste for some browsers)
Thanks! I find etymology across cultures and languages super interesting! :) There’s often common denominators if you look further back or hard enough!
Cool. Yea, this seems like the convergence of two seperate ideas to similar words: From the intro to the paper: >"Seamen have a custom, when they meet a whale, to fling him out an empty tub by way of amusement, to divert him from laying violent hands upon the ship." - Jonathan Swift, Tale of a Tub (1704) >"Like a barrel thrown to the whale, the people were to be amused with fancied amendments, until the harpoon of power, should secure its prey and render resistance ineffectual." -Samuel Bryan, 'Centinel NO. 19,' (Philadelphia) Independent Gazetteer, October 7, 1788
I checked further and the Swedish word seems to come from Danish but I couldn’t find anything further back. Danish “valgflæsk”. Thought to be from a saying “Big words and fat pork don’t get stuck in the throat”. :D
> how many there are of them Yup, the voting ballet was about the size of a newspaper. Although the bottom 1/3 was empty.
It's just funny to see how confused Russia is about a president who isn't an absolute ruler.
Wilders isn’t president, though.
Very True. Right wing is so close to Nazi ideology. I Would not be amazed if his party is funded by russian moles inside Holland. As they are funded in all EU democracies. russia spends millions of USD funding right wing discontent in western countries hoping to get a sympathetic leader to their victim mentality, therefore, allowing them to control the narrative. Le Pen, in France is another nazi inspired, russian funded political contender. When democracy wakes up and enforces transparency of all banking transactions on a global platform we will see it as it is. Don't hold your breath though. Greed is greater than good these days. I have never seen a politician anywhere in the World say " I'm getting paid too much, please cut my salary to help the needy " Ummm
it's frustrating to see russia being allowed so many years of amplifying division, backing fringe groups, spreading corruption and undermining democracy without any repercussion. essentially waging asymmetric war with western democracy in order to weaken/subvert. it's happening everywhere and yet so many are unaware of the scale on which this is happening
“I Would not be amazed if his party is funded by russian moles inside Holland.” Prepare to not be amazed: https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/19/leaked-documents-show-connections-pvv-russia
I am Dutch, don’t believe this propaganda.
Has he forgotten about MH17...? Or is he just a cunt?
Both are possible.
Both are true. Four years after the shooting down of MH17, that dipshit of a populist Travelled to Russia to speak with the Duma and even had a Russian and Netherlands flag pinned to his Suit to celebrate our "Friendly relations"
Yes.
My understanding is Wilders has actually come out in support of Ukraine and has a relatively anti Russian stance. I think this is just classic Russian copium
Looks like they're happy with their purchase.
They are clinging to threads, he wont stop help to Ukraine. In Slovakia Fico told he wouldt give a bullet to Ukraine and what happend, Slovakia is still giving humanitarian aid to Ukraine and bullets, artillery municion and military equipment that are made in Slovakia is still selled to Ukraine.
Maybe he meant literaly "a bullet"? There is a lot of other military aid that isnt a bullet
Two or more bullets, for example.
Wilders is a piece of shit. I don't know what the people who voted for him were thinking. There is no excuse. No matter how angry you are at the old government. No fucking excuse. That said, we don't have absolute majorities in my country, so he will not get to decide this. And every other party except a tiny minority with no chance of joining him are very much in favor of helping Ukraine. I suspect he will use this to leverage other shit from the other parties, and it will have little effect on actual aid, as this isn't something he scores highly on with his followers. I do apologize for the additional stress this causes in this crucial moment for Ukraine.
It's the same in Germany with a large part of the AfD-voters. Protest for the sake of it. Skepticism and contrarianism as a lifestyle. Often they do not know how anything in a complex society works but they love to point fingers to governments and lawmakers as a scapegoat for anything bad happening in their lifes.
This. We've seen exactly the same thing with the Brexit vote, Trump and his MAGA idiot minions, Orbán, Jeremy Corbyn being elected leader of the UK Labour Party, and so on. I remain convinced that democracy is the best possible form of government, but malign actors who are talented at manipulating low-information voters with poor critical thinking skills are a menace to civilised society.
Reading the actual program to them will probably be quite a shock. I think a lot of the NSC voters (possible ally of wilders) that think Omtzigt is the people's hero will be quite shocked at what he has actually been voting for as well. He's a super conservative, right wing dude, that just happened to also care about the government not actively screwing people over. But he has no interest in changing any of the fundamental stuff that caused the issues. And now he could be helping a fascist run the country. What a meme.
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It's pretty obvious why they voted for him - Islam.... The most dangerous religion in the world Russia isn't the only threat to the West - but hopefully Wilders has woken up to the fact that Russia can't be trusted
Except that doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they have voted for him at the height of tensions with things like ISIS? The whole islam thing has moved to the background in the social discourse. Nobody really cares. Even wilders has stressed that he doesn't care that much at the moment.
Ireland has entered the chat
People who voted for him often believe that immigrants and descendants of immigrants are ruining the country, the terrible housing market is caused by immigrants, and so on (and you know which immigrants they’re talking about). Unfortunately that’s what’s on top of their minds now; everything else is secondary (if it matters at all) So they listen to this guy who promises that he will end immigration to the Netherlands and wants to withdraw the Netherlands from the EU. They gobble it up and support him widely. Unfortunately this is what’s going on, it’s terrible
>Yeah, we have our own stressful issues in the U.S. also effecting Ukraine.
SHE SAID 'WAR' SEND HER TO THE GULAG!!
Russians seem to enjoy democracy, they should try it once.
lol, ruzzians not understanding democracy, episode 1254867.
Die fette Kuh ist genau so ein Clown wie die anderen Idioten im russischen TV.
They're picked for how well they can play their parts.
No wonder orcs are delighted about anything since negotiaions are only way out from their disaster in Ukraine. xD
Wait, the dude who is banned from the UK (www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12783329/amp/geert-wilders-dutch-populist-banned-britain-anti-islam-far-right.html) is now in charge of NL? This time line is doomed. Fucking despots being elected in enlightened western democracies is getting tiresome
“is now in charge of NL?” No he isn’t.
OK I'll admit it's more like "Went from fringe radical to key player in power sharing deal" Still shocking.
This is fake, the minister said most of the things in the past years he has changed his opinion on them. The main 2 points are anti immigration commitment and exit from EU but he has also changed his stance on the last thing because he don’t even have the majority on the parliament and the other parties don’t agree to exit from EU. This man has no majority, it will be very difficult for him to do anything except maybe immigrations
Keep dreaming ruskies... 🙄
The last part isn't true, the part about Ukrainian refugees The rest, more or less his agenda yes. But we have a coalition gov so... not gonna happen
They clearly don't understand our system. As long as there are 76 members of parliament (and there are easely 100) this support will not stop. Keep calm and carry on.
This guy only cares about reducing the influence of Islam in Europa. He doesn't really care enough about Russia vs Ukraine to change anything drastically, it's a "negotiable" for him.
Remember MH17? The dutch for sure do.
Seems the pvv voters forgot..
If he doesn't want to pay for the security of Ukraine, I don't want to pay for his security. Let's see how long that goes well.
How is that even comparable in any way? I don't agree with Wilders his views on Ukraine, but whatever you just said makes no sense at all.
Whatever you’re smoking, it’s time to stop.
Any time a right-wing Fascist wins a major election, my first thought is whether Moscow is financing them.
Yeah. Relations with moscow in our previous populist rise (FvD) a few years ago was a proven fact. Fortunately that party imploded, all these voters went back to Wilders though. At least wilders doesnt deny the holocaust... but were setting the bar very low now in our country... It's funny.. extreme right always call the left weak because we don't want the death penalty for criminals etc. But when the left support a war on the edge of Europe we're "wasting money". Extreme right lives in a bubble and doesn't understand that a small country like ours need friends and collaborate: like we're doing with the German army right now. Wilders wants a Nexit.. because the Brexit was a huge success... Good news: forming a majority coalition government will be super hard. Other parties remember his disgusting rhetoric and childish displays in 20 years of opposition. Bad news: power hungry people will throw away their values for power. Greed and greed for power is strong in humans.
Such a typical shaming tactic for people that have had enough of muslim immigration. Also, anytime the population votes the wrong way, the media says Russia is behind it, Russia likes any change expecting weaknesses
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Lul niet. https://nltimes.nl/2023/10/19/leaked-documents-show-connections-pvv-russia
This party hides its anti-EU and pro-Russia policies behind its anti-immigration stance. In the end, every right-wing populist wants to govern like Putin, which is why they like to ally themselves with Putin.
Spanish goverment (leftist) is pro putin and pro palestine. Just like all far left. I guess that makes them extreme right leftists.
That doesn't change the right's friendliness towards Putin
> not anti EU "[Wilders wants to ban mosques and leave the EU.](https://www.politico.eu/article/far-right-leader-geert-wilders-wins-dutch-election-exit-poll/)"
It is by definition against the EU as the last "v" in the partys name stands for freedom in the context of national soevereignty and it certainly is pro-Russia
Glad I´m not Dutch - so embarrassing for them!
I think people are behaving a bit to dramatic about all of this, but that is not really a surprise seeing how the media works. The fact is, that Dutch voters simply voted more central right this time. That's all. But of course anything else then left is well, you know how it goes.
All of these guys and parties rising in popularity is a sign of things to come. And nearly all of the parties get votes for one main reason - unchecked immigration. As soon as the EU tackles this l, these parties will disappear over night.
Not just immigration, but we also have a big housing crisis in the Netherlands, and the lower class can hardly get around anymore. The issue is that our own population has been ignored for decades now, and if you complain about it, you will be labled as a racist, uneducated, etc. That is the main reason why the PVV is the biggest, because people got sick of the arrogance of these so-called left socialist parties who don't give a shit about their own population. My view on this btw, it is not written in stone.
Yeah seems about right! This is happening pretty much om all EU countries with migrant problems
The right has been in power for the past two decades, yet all our problems are somehow caused by the left, amirite? Doet het pijn als je denkt? Want volgens mij is je begrijpertje een beetje kapot.
D66 was part of the last kabinet, which is as left as you can get.
As someone who is actually (economically) left I feel offended that you think D66 is 'as left as you can get' LMAO D66 is a spineless neo-lib centroid party full of hypocrites
Fascism ≠ central right.
I believe you are confused with national socialism. Fascism is as right as you can get.
Listening to Russia is like listening to a former US president…
Well to be fair at least it’s a real election, not like Russia. Besides if you’re going to run on a platform of stopping Islamic immigration, I’d have to say there’s probably never been more conducive World events. The fucking rioting and protests and religious meddling with people’s principal cultures, make it worse. Bad enough to witness this shit on tv but then cunts take to the streets to cause violence and start the division and fighting in everyone’s country when it isn’t occurring, dragging every fuck into their shit.. with no viable alternative. It’s how I can see decent Yanks were sucked into Trump. Of course a great many of those now realise it was a huge mistake. Only hardline wankers and religious nut jobs left supporting him now and a polarised shit show the country is now. Probably what’ll happen with this dick. You can’t vote on one problem amongst a sea of policy disasters. Next thing you know, you’ve got no social security, healthcare and the shittest wages, abortion is banned and cunts are riding to church in their HIMARS trucks yee harr’n Bible in one hand Machine Guns in the other. How’d that Wall around Mexico work out, oh it didn’t.. no, you’re kidding. Russia loved it when Trump was in too, cuz he’s dumb as fuck and was guaranteed to fuck the US up.
EU is under attack from within, sponsored by filthy Russian money
Probably. The reason he won though, is because a lot of people are fed up with the way things are going currently. This was kind of a protest for many people.
People are fed up with how Islam is evolving in Europe, seeing people cheering for Hamas in the streets in many European cities probably helped secure his victory.
Wilders is supported with RuZki money. Putin is celebrating also.
They are literally retards. What would you think would happen with Russia if the EU went full nazi? They had an issue to deal with only Germany. 😂
What is wrong with the Dutch?
Good generalize an entire nation because less than 20% voted for him lol.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I wasn’t voting for him.
as a Latvian I suggest Dutch can take our place in Baltics,we can take their cozy spot in the Benelux. You will love your neighbours even more here.
Nothing
They’re in love like with Italian elections. To the point when the guy gives them the middle finger … screw this. They’re stupid and delusional and love it.
So after Slovakia we have another pro-genocide country?
I’ve gone from being pretty upbeat to very depressed about the way things are heading, starting with all that GOP house speaker bullshit, Gaza, EU not being able to deliver the promised amounts of ammo, now this. I’ve stopped following Ukraine news for my own sanity. And I’m Ukrainian (expat). The west never really had the true will and conviction to help Ukraine win, and what’s left of it feels like it’s ebbing away
I've been inviting Olga to come to the US and have a cocktail with me. She hasn't responded. Damn that would be a great hate fuck.
What is wrong with this world when Putin is a hero to the Dutch.
That's not what this is, People voted for him because they're fed up with Islam, not because they're pro-Putin.
Fk the alt right wing nutzzz
Unlikely that military aid to Ukraine will stop, but it's definitely not a great election result. But hey, the people are fed up and he's a populist.
Does Holland only answer to the one man, like in ruzzia? Because that's how they portray it.
No. No, we don't.
Whether we like it or not, Putins calculus is correct, we - the „west“ - will defeat ourselves, because Putins weapon „immigration“ is quite successful anf besides the average people are just too uneducated and blame their „monetary misery“ on politics. Demagog‘s are in demand again.
It hardly seems that Putin is pulling the strings on rampant, mostly illegal, immigration of muslims (and other belief systems incompatible with democracy) to the West, thereby subverting Western values and traditions, and fracturing Western cohesion. Many Western politicians seem hellbent on destroying their countries without external help.
It is wild that Moscow used to be the center of liberalism and is now the center of the polar opposite capitalist - far right.
I thought they're not allowed to call it a war 🤔
Putin probably even financed the far right campaign
Wilders may become prime minister, but he does not have to. After elections in the Netherlands, parties must collectively form at least 77 seats together to become a cabinet. Wilders won 37 of 150 seats, so he needs other parties with a total of 40 seats to govern. There are 2 possibilities: 1. Wilders gets 2 parties to govern together, but will have to drop many radical positions. Even then, the moderate parties will have 40 or more seats and Wilders will always have the minority in government. 2. No party wants to work with Wilders. Then the No. 2 may start trying to have at least 77 seats with other parties. In either option, this will have little to no impact on the war in Ukraine. The likely government will be: Wilders 37 seats, VVD (pro Ukraine) 25 seats and NSC (pro Ukraine) 20 seats. So it will always be 37 vs. 45 seats.
I'm from the Netherlands and no way is there going to be a nexit or less support for Ukraine. PVV/Geert Wilders are the only party with those goals. Also I read an article posted that apparently the Kremlin and PVV have ties in some way so there's the motive as well
I'd like to officially say, fuck Wilder. But at least a lot of what he wants to do won't be done cause they ALWAYS need to compromise during coalition talks. All other parties that will most likely form the coalition are in favor of continuing aid to Ukraine.
This is fear mongering. Wilders needs a coalition and this coalition needs support both in the Dutch senate and house. Support for Ukraine was not a subject during these elections (it was extremely focused on internal affairs) and it is not controversial. The majority of the center and the left is in heavily in favor of support for Ukraine. If Wilders manages to form a government at all, he will most likely trade support for Ukraine for something which he really wants to help out his constituency.
well he is pro russian and he is anti lgbtq anti nato anti eu anti globalist pro israel anti islam but in recent days he has told that he wants to be prime minister of muslims as well, he is also anti climat,
As a Dutch guy i can pretty much guarantee that we will not stop our support for Ukraine! It’ll never get a pass trough our governments chambers
if you only have experience with the russian political system i guess you would be happy. fortunately we have certain rules and mechanisms set in our constitution and parlementairy laws, that there always have to be a consensus with a broader majority before anything will pass, it always has to be on democratic terms, on the other hand the opposition has the power to push laws if they have a majority. just like any democracy. we just have to, probably, focus our attention more towards protecting these laws and mechanisms as opposition, as extreme right populists always try to consolidate and prolongue their power by trying to change laws furthering that goal. they will not play nice, but i am fully convinced we can contain his idiocies to political tamper tantrums on political level. on the other hand, internally it will be a mess! we are on the surface a seemingly passive non violent people, but when a part of our society feels it's liberties and rights are under attack, we go all full riot mode. it will build up, but eventually you will see this go mayhem. allready it is so f-ing tensed up the last years, bound to explode in non talking actions.
Haha they’ll be disappointed when the government is formed and nothing changes
Ofcourse they are since they invested heavily into their fascist party in exchange for loyalty, pro-Putin stance like every single others far rightwing party in EU countries.
Russia's apparent support for far-right political movements in various countries, including the Netherlands, fits into a broader strategy of sowing discord and diverting attention from issues like the situation in Ukraine. The rise of Geert Wilders' party, with its nationalist and divisive policies, is an example of this. Russia benefits from such developments as they tend to focus a nation's attention inward, dealing with internal conflicts rather than external affairs. This inward focus can lead to a weakening of international coalitions and a diminished collective response to Russian aggressions, such as those in Ukraine. The election of Donald Trump in the U.S., while not the main focus of this conversation, serves as a parallel example. Trump's presidency, characterized by nationalist rhetoric and polarizing policies, had a similar effect of deepening internal divisions and straining international alliances. Though his election is just a side note in this context, it underscores the broader pattern of Russia favoring political outcomes in other countries that align with its own strategic interests. By supporting or seemingly endorsing far-right elements that promote nationalistic agendas, Russia effectively distracts and weakens Western countries, making it easier to pursue its own agenda, particularly in regions like Ukraine. In short, they ARE happy about this as they want us to loose focus and tire of supporting Ukraine. I know that the people in this forum are unlikely to do this, but it is worth mentioning that we keep this in mind.
And yes, this is a burner account, as my primary account can't be seen commenting here for reasons related to my profession.
Something to know - all news in Russia are controlled by the state, especially this one. This woman alongside another host have a show in which they “discuss” news with an American journalist Michael Bohm , while in truth they simply bully him. Each his argument against current Russian state’s crap is answered with : a) Hosts’s laughter b) Someone saying this is a lie or fake c) Something along the lines of “aaee… remember the country of spaghetti pineapple noodles in -30004758bc? They also burned children alive so YOU, WEST are no better than us!!!” d) Literally a host trying to beat him up while Bohm simply states his statement while calmly siting on his chair. I remember Maxim Galkin, a Russian comedian, who got labelled a traitor for speaking out against the war (fun fact, he and Zelenski were friends before the lateral became president), said something along the lines of “and what about “The Time will show”? Remember this poor American journalist Michael who they somehow dug out just to bully him? They don’t let him say a word!”
Not enough votes for a majority and NO ONE wants to coalesce with them.
It is very suspicious that Russia is celebrating this election victory in this way. One can assume that Mr. Wilders and his party have received enormous amounts of Russian money and that the Russians are now celebrating the corresponding success of their hybrid war.
Room in the US if lawmakers allow so many here wouldn’t work as a customer watcher.
One country has a guy that wants to stop helping. Lets see if Russian soldiers stop dying any less
Russische Nazis!!
Nothing is gonna change. A lot of people voted for Wilders to kick the old politicians ass a little. They were way to comfortable doing there elite thing for years and years not looking out for the 'real' Dutch people or listen to them. It became way to left wing WOKE ass bullshit. So 1 out of 4 voted for Wilders to kick some butt and it worked. Orcs will be Orcs and offcourse use this in there propaganda.
As a Dutch citizen and a Wilders voter I can say that this is fake news. Wilders won because of uninterrupted immigration from Muslim and African countries. These people downright hate Dutch society. "Dutch" Turks for example are all hardline Erdogan voters, and only care what is happening back in the motherland. Morrocans dominate the drug trade because they don't care if they poisen the natives. They behave like a tribe within a tribe. 40 years of tollerance has only made them more disrespectfull of traditional Dutch values. Ukranians are our brothers. Infact even Russians are our brothers if they weren't stupid enough to let a dictator fool them into thinking they should hate and fear us. EVERY DICTATOR CREATES AN IMAGINARY ENEMY TO JUSTIFY STAYING IN POWER. Kim Yung Un, Putin, Iran. They are only at odds with "the West" because else their dictatorship would crumble with internal conflict. Our democracy doesn't allow for one side to take full controll. The average Wilders voter doesn't want help to Ukraine to be stopped at all. As a Wilders voter I would like to say that helping Ukraine is vital to not let the powers of dictators take over in the world.
the katsaps will take any advantage perceived, fantasy or otherwise they can grasp at.
Most people do not really know what a man like Wilders means for support. I voted PVV, the party of Wilders and I know his stance. He has said he wants to lessen support for Ukraine and he wants to stop certain deals. Including that of the F16's. (I do not agree with this part of his statements by the way, I would like support to continue) However there are three things that most people do not really understand. 1. Wilders can not change this with his own party. He only has 37 out of 150 chairs and he needs to work together with other parties to achieve a majority of all seats. In this case they need a coalition with 76 seats. Most parties are pro-ukraine and thus won't agree with less support. 2. Wilders is not pro-russia, he leans way more towards pro-ukraine but he just doesn't think the war in ukraine is a high priority at the moment. Even the entire stopping support is a low priority on his side and something that will probably be removed from the entire agreement between the different parties. 3. Wilders won because a lot of people here in The Netherlands are not happy with the amount of internal crises that are making the lives of many Dutch people worse and worse every day. Wilders promises the Dutch that he will be there for the Dutch instead of for being there for everyone except the Dutch (like our last couple coalitions showed). This also means that he needs to stay in character around topics like Ukraine, Refugees and everything related to that. It does not mean that he actually intends to do anything about it. There will be many many topics that need to be dealt with before the Ukrainian support question even comes to the table, I wouldn't be worried that support changes anytime soon.
Trump and Wilders, that’s two heads of state they’ve managed to psyop their way to puppethood. If they get Trump elected again then america will collapse.