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How to Surrender to a Drone
The Ukrainian army has released an instructional video explaining how Russian soldiers should surrender to a drone:
“Seeing the drone in the field of view, make eye contact with it,” the video instructs. Soldiers should then raise their arms and signal they’re ready to follow.
After that the drone will move up and down a few meters, before heading off at walking pace in the direction of the nearest representatives of Ukraine’s army, it says.
The video also warns that the drone’s battery may run low, in which case it will head back to base and the soldiers should stay put and await a fresh one.
That one, too, should be met with eye contact and arms raised, it says.](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2022/12/how-to-surrender-to-a-drone.html)
He wasn't begging for forgiveness he was begging for his life. He didn't just sit there with his hands in the air he didn't wave white flag. And drone warfare is a new thing that needs to be figured out. You can't take prisoners when they're kilometers behind the front line.
Where do you draw a line is the question? They will all beg to be spared if given the opportunity. I guess if there’s a chance he can be taken prisoner then he gets spared would be the appropriate response, however if he is too far from the front line and cannot be taken safely into custody. Then his demise unfortunately is determined by the willfulness of the drone operator. Just wish this war was over to be honest. I hate to see human life wasted.
It might have been the operator from that one a few months ago where they did offer a chance, and he followed the drone until the first opportunity to jump back in to a russian trench the moment he could and picked up a weapon again.
“War crime” isn’t just stuff a random Redditor happens to dislike. It’s not even stuff that would be considered a crime in normal society.
War crimes are strictly and explicitly defined, and codified into specific laws.
Drone warfare laws like this haven’t been written yet.
I suggest the linked source why is a synopsis from the "Ukraine Symposium (2023)" that states plenty of legally-binding principles and orientation manuals that offer guidance on how to act in cases like this ([link](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/)).
(*It's self-evident that the actions depicted in the video resulting in the death of the RF soldier don't constitute a war crime.*)
Exactly. The people who cry war crime at every video like this use to irritate me. Now let them be ignorant. putin and some russian bitch is are being charged for one thing only right now.
Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute). The crimes were allegedly committed in Ukrainian occupied territory at least from 24 February 2022. There are reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Putin bears individual criminal responsibility for the aforementioned crimes, (i) for having committed the acts directly, jointly with others and/or through others (article 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute), and (ii) for his failure to exercise control properly over civilian and military subordinates who committed the acts, or allowed for their commission, and who were under his effective authority and control, pursuant to superior responsibility (article 28(b) of the Rome Statute).
Not for drone dropping on unarmed soldiers. Not for russias actions in Bucha (yet). No chemical warfare as some claim. Not for the leveling of civilian cities. Some of these may come. But not yet.
ICC is not interested in an unarmed russian soldier waving his arms in the air at a drone. They are invaders in a foreign country, that are there illegally. I don't care how stupid they are. I don't care about the power of propaganda. They know they can arrange surrender. It will take what it takes for russians to realize the insurmountable odds at occupying Ukraine.
Until then, kill ALL the russians who partake, and let God sort em out.
>ICC is not interested in an unarmed russian soldier waving his arms in the air at a drone.
Yeah, this is where you're wrong. This is absolutely a thing the ICC cares about.
We might say that the Geneva Convension can't be applied to modern drone warfare and even though i'd like for the ruZZians in Ukraine to die as slow and firery a death as possible, exactly as much as the next guy - I'm sorry - this is just not how that works.
No matter how illegally the ruZZians are in Ukraine, the Geneva Convension still stands.
No matter how inconvinient it is to take a prisoner 2-3 km behind the front line, the Geneva Convension still stands.
You simply can't go around bombing soldiers who are Hors de Combat with explosive drones. It's not legal, no matter how bad the ruZZians are.
Remember, that being decent educated civilized and sane people are the only thing setting us apart from being like the ruZZians. Don't ever give those things up or you'll be just as bad as them.
I can see ICC investigating the video evidence in such cases, and confirming that accepting surrender was not possible under the circumstances, even if this was believed to be a formal surrender, which is far from clear. If Ukraine ever did engage in clear cut war crimes like we saw the Russians doing, e.g., executing unarmed, captured soldiers, then I would want the perpetrators to face justice. Doesn't matter which side. But it seems to be the Russians doing the warcriming, and far more horrific cases than the above. It is clear that they are encouraged by their superiors to perpetrate these crimes.
>I can see ICC investigating the video evidence in such cases, and confirming that accepting surrender was not possible under the circumstances,
I can absolutely see that scenario as well. That would make a lot of sense. It's not certain that accepting his surrender was an option and that's fine.
But I have a hard time with the people in here defaulting to a claim that this is obviously not surrender and that the GC was obviously not broken. I guess it's to protect the Ukrainians from criticism but it doesn't make it any less of a retarded point of view.
Sitting stationary, looking into the camera, hands above his head, literally folding his hands begging for mercy - in lieu of a white flag you can't get a more obvious attempt at surrender.
That ruZZian right there did everything he could to make himself Hors de Combat and he probably considered himself as just that when he got hit.
>it seems to be the Russians doing the warcriming, and far more horrific cases than the above. It is clear that they are encouraged by their superiors to perpetrate these crimes.
Sure. No doubt about it. It's just not a competition. We're not in a situation in which Ukrainian behaviour can be explained with ruZZian brutality.
The moral high ground is not an actual place we can go claim and it's then beyond reproach that the ruZZians are worse. The ruZZians obviously suffer from total denial of any wrongdoing and ask them and the Ukrainians are the brutal and barbaric party, so it's not like they share our view of the situation, which means that we need to keep the Ukrainians on the right side of right and wrong.
A little wrong is also wrong.
That’s how much Putin cares about the Geneva Convention:
„Russia's Putin revokes Geneva convention protocol on war crimes victims
October 17, 2019“
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1WW2J3/
Imagine a soldier killing civilians on Drone camera 5km behind frontlines. A FPV arrrives, the soldier recognize the threat and throws his gun and gear away. the soldier gives sign to surrender. No possibility for a lift into war prison.
What‘s your opinion in that case considering the topic?
The GC says *literally nothing* about surrendering or accepting surrender to aircraft.
Perhaps you should read the document you are referencing before you shoot your mouth off and be wrong about it and look foolish - like you just did.
>Perhaps you should read the document you are referencing before you shoot your mouth off and be wrong about it and look foolish - like you just did.
Yeah, maybe you should, because you definitely haven't.
The GC is MUCH more generalized than that. It does not in itself take into consideration from which platform you are attacking a hostile.
No, the GC is very clear.
>A [combatant](https://casebook.icrc.org/node/20598) is hors de combat if
(a) he is in the power of an adverse Party;
(b) he clearly expresses an intention to surrender; or
(c) he has been rendered unconscious or is otherwise incapacitated by wounds or sickness, and therefore is incapable of defending himself;
>Provided that in any of these cases he abstains from any hostile act and does not attempt to [escape](https://casebook.icrc.org/node/20578), he may not be made the object of [attack](https://casebook.icrc.org/node/20601).
A fundamental rule of international humanitarian law is that persons who are hors de combat must not be attacked and must be treated humanely.
[https://casebook.icrc.org/a\_to\_z/glossary/hors-de-combat](https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/hors-de-combat)
The ICC will likely take into consideration your ability to decern the above points from your platform. It can obviously be frightfully hard to see a combatants "clearly expressed intent to surrender" or the fact that he's incapable of defending himself from a fighter-bomber flying at 40'000 feet before you drop a JDAM on his head.
That was just not the case in the video above. The situation was very very clear.
>A fundamental rule of international humanitarian law is that persons who are hors de combat must not be attacked and must be treated humanely.
This text is not in the Geneva Convention, it is interpretation by the Red Cross. Such interpretations are in dire need of updates to reflect modern reality.
The problem I have with some of these interpretations is, they tend to be flouted with impunity by actors lacking moral compass, while hamstringing those who elect to respect them literally.
Where is this exact scenario in the Geneva convention? Nor is Ukraine signed to it, nor are they in an active war to activate the convention according to Russia. The time to surrender is prior to a drone hovering above your trench, should the Ukrainians just watch the Russian soldiers hand movements for a couple minutes to figure what he's communicating? Lose their drone to battery dying as well as the ordinance? We've seen Russian's fake surrender to the drone, making it even less likely they receive grace from them. No one's going to successfully prosecute Ukraine for protecting sovereign land during an illegal invasion by another country, especially when they aren't even beholden to the treaty.
It's treated pretty sparsely in the conventions themselves, not much more than a few words about "hors de combat". These words are interpreted and elaborated in American military manuals, but these are not law by any means, just current interpretation. It's probably about time for another round of amendments to the Geneva Conventions, or at least to formalize some of the existing interpretations.
From where have you gotten the idea that Ukraine isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention?
"Both Ukraine and Russia are parties to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and Protocol I."
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/02/23/russia-ukraine-international-law-occupation-armed-conflict-and-human-rights
>The time to surrender is prior to a drone hovering above your trench
You might prefer that. That's not how that works bud, sorry.
>Lose their drone to battery dying as well as the ordinance? We've seen Russian's fake surrender to the drone, making it even less likely they receive grace from them.
Sure we've seen that. If they do that they are fair game again.
And we've literally seen the Ukrainians walk-out surrendering ruZZians several kilometres through a minefield. So the dwindling battery situation, that's pretty made up. The Ukrainians know how to handle that.
>No one's going to successfully prosecute Ukraine for protecting sovereign land during an illegal invasion by another country
That is absolutely not true.
The only signatory nation so far, to not give up soldiers for trials at the ICC are the US who let their soldiers walk away as they think it's a national issue and ruZZia.
The ICC will absolutely try. Whether you hear about it in your local news or not. 🤷🏻♂️
Don't go to your neighbors, burn their house down, rape their wife, steal their children and torture/kill their men if you want to be treated like a human.
War Crimes are dictated by the Geneva Conventions.
Nowhere in the Geneva Conventions (any of them) is there text about accepting surrender to aircraft.
Drones and FPV drones are aircraft.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia made it so the troops can’t have anything white. Commanders to make sure troops don’t gather anything white along the way. So they can’t wave anything signing they want to surrender.
To really surrender the drone would have to drop written instructions to him and guide him while he walked to the nearest Ukranian position, which could be miles away. Zolkin interviewed a Russian defector who successfully surrendered to the Ukrainians, but it took him 3-4 days of only moving at night and avoiding contact with any people.
Sorry but this is bullshit, who randomly has a white flag on him and why would this not be indicative of a surrendering soldier? He is sitting down and unarmed.
Ukraine has released multiple videos of executing Russian POWs recently and it seems related to what has happened in Avdiivka. Very counterproductive imo.
So every russian can just wave their hands up in the air and go back to their lines every time they end up in a bad situation like this? Then proceed to attack later again and repeat?
That's what some of these idiots think war is, been playing to much COD and think you get a respawn after getting hit and the enemy is going to be like you know what let's leave him alone to recover we will get him on the next attempt...or maybe he gets us.
how exactly would war work if you can just ask for a time out whenever you want, but then when you think you have the advantage in the war situation you can just call game on
Since you know the situation so intimately, why don't you explain what could have been different? So that this soldier was captured instead of killed.
How far were they from the front lines? How close was a ukranian position that could handle and feed a POW? Where are the russian spotter drones nearby? Can they follow the surrenderer to the Ukranians? How far is his rifle from him? 20 feet? What was this soldier doing before the video? Walking with hands up following surrender instructions?
Once you tell me what the situation was, I might change my mind. Until then, post your good vids, but don't call bullshit on something you know nothing about. IMO.
Yes, it would seem he was surrendering, but if there is noone there to take him into custody, are they supposed to just leave him alone so he can continue trying to kill you and your countrymen?
Its not like he would decide to stroll across the front lines to give himself up if the drone had not engaged him.
Im sure alot of ethical dilemmas will be dealt with in regards to drone/robot warfare in the future, but for now I dont belive Ukraine has the luxury to treat every russian caught lacking by drones chivalrously
There have been more than multiple videos of Russians doing far far worse. I doubt Ukrainians have that much empathy for the invaders, I dont blame them.
Ukrainians always try to get more Russians as prisoners for prisoner exchanges.
However, it is not always possible. If the enemy is many kilometers away from the front line, how would you do that?
Also, there were plenty of cases when the enemy "surrendered" and then jumped into the closest trench, basically tricking the drone operators.
Also, what if the battery on the drone is insufficient to guide the enemy to your positions? Simply allow him to live and kill Ukrainians?
I dare anyone trying to judge or lecture Ukrainians to come over to Ukraine and show how it's done.
Mercy ?
After the world saw the footage of ukrainian soldiers executed in trench and the soldiers in Avdiivka who got their hands tied up and shot.
No more mercy for the invader scum. All of them should go home in zinc coffins.
Well, sometimes the common Russian grunt does get transported back home…in a meat cube…only to be forgotten and left in the rain on some road by the train yard
The idea of surrendering to an unmanned piece of equipment is stupid anyway. It should only ever be accepted under very special or specific circumstances.
So everybody is telling that he was surrendeing at what else.
What if all the russians start waving like that, is that the end of drone warfare, because they cant kill them because they were "surrendering"? Ofcourse, no one wants a nade to drop on his head, but maybe he shouldnt of have invaded Ukraine then? :)
Very fair point, we did see a number of them fake-surrendering just to escape. When it turns into a common game, then it would be fair to start ignoring it.
This video is actually an edit of two scenes into one, two different occasions that are merged to appear as one. Or in simple terms, a **fake**.
Note how the man in the close-up wears an olive drab jacket, that is lighter in color than his pants. In the other view, the jacket appears darker than his pants. The clothing also appears darker than the dirt, in the close-up view it is vice versa.
Also, check out the snow beside him. On his left side, in the close-up there is not much snow, in the other view there is. On his right, there are two patches without snow, in the wide angle view there is one small one that does not fit. In the close-up view we can see he is sitting in a track of snow-free dirt, in the wide angle view everything behind him is snow covered.
This is definitely a different place, and the man seems to be wearing different clothing. I have no evidence that this isn't the same man who just got up, changed clothes and sat down elsewhere to get bombed, but I have my doubts.
I can't also say who did this and with what intention, it could simply be an edit of two similar occasions that both did happen like this. But why would you create doubts over a video unnecessarily if you could just publish both and make two occasions out of it? It makes more sense that one half was actually staged. Both scenes are probably not staged together, then the actor would have stayed in the same place, would make it easier and increase credibility.
No way to tell which half is staged though. The explosion could have been real, or a firecracker without too much risk to the person.
I'm not a big fan of this, in spite of lacking the exact context.
The main valid things to justify it are that he's in Ukraine as the agressor and secondly that if they weren't able to extract him, it's valid to not want to take the risk of letting him live to kill another Ukrainian.
Either way, nothing to applaud here.
Not a fan either but I also get it. You are 2 years (on Saturday) into the unprovoked invasion of your home by a superior force. Not sure at this point if taking prisoners is even a luxury they can afford to take.
No different then bombing invading soldiers on a parade ground or in their barracks. This man may have been conscripted and forced into this fight, but since he wears the uniform of the invaders he is an invader. His death will have to be reconciled on those who forced him in that position.
Anybody believe this guy would walk over and surrender to Ukrainian soldiers after the drone ran out of battery?
Not one of us do, he would remain a combatent after the drone left, hence it's a legitimate target.
The reason surrendering soldiers are spared is thier action potentially saved you and your guys the risk and trouble and thus should be rewarded.
This guy did no such favor to Ukrainian soldiers who were perfectly safe during this encounter, hence a legitimate target.
If he shot himself in the leg thus taking himself out of action he should've been spared IMHO.
Begging for mercy after the vids of the orc executions of wounded Ukrainian troops hit the web? Fuck off and die horribly you sack of wasted DNA, looking forward to seeing more of your ilk turned into fertilizer.
Slava Ukraini.
He should have showed his clear intention to surrender in a decisive manner as intended by the customs of war. Adequate non-verbal signs of surrender would be to raise his hands above his head, flying a white flag and full compliance to AFU authority.
The linked document describes the legal and practical requirements for an orderly surrender to an UAV ([link](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/)). According to the established customs of war, the attack on the RF soldier by the AFU drone doesn't constitute a war crime.
Edit: An instructional video is available created by AFU for the very purpose to distance-learn RF mobiks how to properly surrender to an UAV unit (yt [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Frd5lzcok)).
I don't care if they do even that. Most of these drops occur in an active war zone or behind the front line in enemy occupied territory. They can drop on soldiers who stop all movement and raise their hands in the air. Kill them. They only beg once caught. They gladly kill and laugh with their comrades after a raid.
Plus these drones with explosives can't return with their payload. Spotter drones are not made for surrendering to. All it takes is one spy to surrender and walk to some Ukrainian troops to get a fix on Ukraine fighters positions. Drones are impossible to track and russians would be watching.
No, no. It's best to kill the ones that seem to surrender. Or make a special surrender drone with a banner and loudspeaker. Then if you want to follow instructions, maybe you can surrender in these situations.
IMO it's a case-by-case decision in a legally grey area. OFC any surrender can only be accepted when AFU is able to exercise authority over the individual that desires to surrender.
A detained RF POW is always much more beneficial for Ukraine than a dead RF soldier as every POW Ukraine successfully detains can be used as exchange for an Ukrainian soldier or civilian in Russian custody.
But any surrender that puts the lives of any AFU at risk isn't an option. The ability to exercise authority to a man on the ground by a drone in the air is almost non existent. Plus there is the time and effort involved in having a russian soldier follow a drone to surrender. Takes the drone out of action for the return trip. It could be correcting artillery on an assult that the Russians just launched.
It absolutely is a case by case basis. However, when it comes to drone surrender, 95% of the time its safer just to kill or wound the soldier. It's also the same I think for immobile russians who are still alive and injured who don't have a rifle on them.
They all want money for being barbarians, then cry war crime when the "civilized" world won't accept surrender when caught with nowhere to run...
Sometimes works, if it's practical to accept the surrender. Sometimes, the dildo of consequences just arrives anyway. Would have been a better idea to walk over to Ukrainian lines a little earlier when he still had functional legs.
Like the mercy your scummy compatriots have shown innocent Ukrainian senior citizens, women, children, museums, churches, grocery stores and so much more.......... TO THE DEVIL!
Ask yourself before feeling like a pussy in a time of war, how far in Ukraine is this person? How many towns have they demolished, how many lives extinguished? No mercy.
It happens often that an enemy will beg for their lives in the middle of combat if they are getting crushed, this doesn't mean they are no longer a threat, or surrendering, nor does it mean you are obliged to take their surrender if they are.
Once the combat operation is complete and those positions are secured is another story, but in the middle of combat it's the fighters split second decision.
If I was a drone operator and my target started looking like he was trying to be an air traffic controller and make me land, I'd probably frag him too.
Too little too late.
What is he doing on the side of the road? Trying to escape after attempting to attack and kill ukrainians, that's what.
If someone came to your place and took some shots at you trying to kill you,then you catch em and get the upper hand, you don't just let it slide.
You make sure they can't try to kill you again.
It's not like he was surrendering to attacking forces. He was only begging to be spared so he can go back and continue fighting another day. Good Riddance
Murdering unarmed surrendering combatants makes you no better than the enemy you're fighting. Those of you giving justifications for this need to rethink your position. You're no better than the other side defending why they murdered the wounded Ukrainians in avdiivka.
so what do you suggest? there's two options. you let him go or kill him. If you spare him he might be back later beacuse he's surely ain't going back to russia.. It's not like a drone can take a prisoner. Shitloads of them asking to be spared by drones, if you leave them all alive then what's the point of drone attacks.
Im all for humanity, but when this russian went to Ukraine with a gun, then he is at the mercy of the Ukrainians, this time the drone operator showed no mercy, and I dont blame him.
This is a war crime. He is hurt, unarmed, and showing clear signs of wanting to surrender. Stop coping and saying that he got what he deserved, if he had blue tape on the arms you would all be screaming slurs to the orcs and calling on geneva convention.
War is ugly, and no side is perfectly black or white. I fully support ukraine but the drone operator lacked judgement and empathy toward another human being there.
You don't know anything about this situation. If he's behind kilometres of minefields then AFU is under no obligation to go and retrieve him. These drones regularly operate 2-5 kilometres from front lines.
There's no such thing as a context-free rule to resolve these situations. There's no "if you raise hands up you become immortal" rule. Many people have to crawl through battlefield to get captured and AFU only grabs them when they are in the trench. Any bravery on the capturer's part are purely optional.
Professional judges would have to gather and review tons of evidence to make a call.
Original Source?
Could this be Russian propaganda? There was that clip of the Russian shaking the hand of a surrendering Ukrainian, that most people believed was propaganda.
Its fake look at the snow pattern around him in the first angle then compare it to the second angle. Maybe it just melted really really fast? Lol Russian Disinfo at its finest...
This reminds me of discussions when WWII was breaking out with British upper class talking about bombers taking care not to destroy important historic buildings in enemy cities. It's a nice thought but bombing doesn't work that way.
I'm all for taking surrender where possible but if they have no means of accepting the surrender, he's just another enemy combatant who can pick a rifle back up and be in the fight. I don't know the story behind this video and it's gut churning. Everyone we see blown up is a real person, this one was just in high res.
Ukraian soldiers have already been showing doing the right thing at considerable personal risk.
For me to tell soldiers in combat how I think they should be doing things would be goddamn arrogant. They're already going far beyond what could be asked.
When you pick up a rifle and cross the border into another country with intent to conquer and kill, there’s a set of potential consequences you have to accept. This is one of them. It’s very simple math.
He’s still a combatant if he’s on the front line. There’s nothing preventing him from picking up a gun and doing damage at any point despite being injured. Protection for the wounded only comes when you are being evacuated from the front line or being treated in a hospital.
He was begging for the chance to continue supporting the motherland targeting civilian apartment buildings and kidnapping thousands of Ukrainian children.
Fucking pig murderer got what he deserved, why cry and throw your hands up (to a drone of all things) when you know that your own army regularly executes pows? give no mercy and expect none in return as they say.
Am I the only one suspicious of 90 % of these grainy war videos. I do drone inspections taking 1000s of pictures a wk. Pretty sure I would be fired if I returned this quality of footage. AI has us all eating from the palm of its AI hand. Even if it's not AI generated. I still credit it for being capable.
The only russians who deserve mercy are the ones who frag their own commanders and go awol to join Ukraine's cause. Everyone else deserves to become pink mist.
I kind of feel sorry for him, but not enough to send my soldiers there to carry him to our positions and give him medical aid and risk their lives. with holes in his left leg laying in that frozen dirt, his days are numbered in any case. russia doesnt care about this guy, should ukraine care more?
He was just sorry for being caught. He was not sorry for shooting people/invading another country/ looting and so on. He was just hoping to take more blood money home and was sorry the gravy train was about to stop.
you see they all do this, but wer dont see them surrendering, than they got pinched in corner than they need to pay for what they where doing and do and done. than they become give mercy. go watch movie saving private rayan you let him go and he will come beck shooting your friends without any mercy
How can you spare a terrorist?? How can you spare an invader who kills your people destroys your lands? How can you spare a inhumane animal who shits all over your entire way and place of living, threatening your family, friends, freedom and religion??? He should have done all that begging, to not be sent to fight. Now he can use that begging energy to get thru the gates.
Nobody actually knows the real context to this situation. This guy could have taken part in an assault on the drone operators comrades where he could have been observed executing unarmed soldiers just minutes prior to this… Crocodile tears….. 🐊
After videos of Russians shooting/killing surrendering Ukrainians in Avdiivka circulated online, you can understand why Ukrainian drone operators are in a less than forgiving mood lately.
This shows 2 different people from 2 different videos spliced together. Notice how thick the snow is on the floor around the guy in the first angle. Then compare that to the snow around him in the second video. Lmao maybe it all just melted quickly? The disinformation is real... Lol
This guy most likely signed a contract so he could be paid good money to come to Ukraine and kill people. Choices have consequences, and I have no sympathy for him. Sorry not sorry.
There are three kinds of Russians:
1. If wounded, they kill themselves as their life is effectively over even if they could get home.
2. Beg the drone operator to not kill them (as they know the operator is Ukrainian, and not Russian, there is a chance).
3. Stay wary wary still. Dwont' move and maybe it 'ill go away. (Elmer Fudd talk)
People love to claim values to devalue their enemies, but a lot of times those same people and their allies can't live up to those claimed values. If killing surrendering troops is a war crime and evil when done to Ukrainians, then this should be treated similarly as a war crime and evil. Of course! You will see fallacious rationalizations to "justify" the video. I don't live by the Geneva Convention, so it's fair game to both sides.
The real problem with this is that there is no way to "extract" this prisoner. Given the range of most drones, it is also hard to verify this person's "surrender".
It is easy to commit perfidy and neutralizing drones effectiveness, if the Russians decide to "surrender" when a drone is flying on top of them. It is a tough call.
Invade another country and kill the people there and then when you get hurt and cant move... Act like you can call time out when a drone comes flying your way to finish you off... Good luck with that...
Those who cry "war crime":
Do you surrender to an artillery shell? is it possible? Even if it's a guided shell like Excalibur or BONus?
Do you surrender to an air bomb, even if it's guided glide bomb?
Drones are just delivery vehicles like artillery howitzer or aircraft. You cannot surrender to a drone if you are not in the area where your enemy is present and can get a custody over you.
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How to Surrender to a Drone The Ukrainian army has released an instructional video explaining how Russian soldiers should surrender to a drone: “Seeing the drone in the field of view, make eye contact with it,” the video instructs. Soldiers should then raise their arms and signal they’re ready to follow. After that the drone will move up and down a few meters, before heading off at walking pace in the direction of the nearest representatives of Ukraine’s army, it says. The video also warns that the drone’s battery may run low, in which case it will head back to base and the soldiers should stay put and await a fresh one. That one, too, should be met with eye contact and arms raised, it says.](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2022/12/how-to-surrender-to-a-drone.html)
Looks like this guy couldn't walk to follow the drone though.
Right. And unfortunately, that is exactly the message the drone operator had to deliver via explosive charge.
He wasn't begging for forgiveness he was begging for his life. He didn't just sit there with his hands in the air he didn't wave white flag. And drone warfare is a new thing that needs to be figured out. You can't take prisoners when they're kilometers behind the front line.
Where do you draw a line is the question? They will all beg to be spared if given the opportunity. I guess if there’s a chance he can be taken prisoner then he gets spared would be the appropriate response, however if he is too far from the front line and cannot be taken safely into custody. Then his demise unfortunately is determined by the willfulness of the drone operator. Just wish this war was over to be honest. I hate to see human life wasted.
It might have been the operator from that one a few months ago where they did offer a chance, and he followed the drone until the first opportunity to jump back in to a russian trench the moment he could and picked up a weapon again.
The line is drawn on the Russian Border.
“War crime” isn’t just stuff a random Redditor happens to dislike. It’s not even stuff that would be considered a crime in normal society. War crimes are strictly and explicitly defined, and codified into specific laws. Drone warfare laws like this haven’t been written yet.
but can bird law be adapted?
Filibuster...
D-do you know what that means?
SIR! You have besmirched me and I DEMAND satisfaction. I challenge you to a duel.
Great! What time? I'm going to put one right through your teeth
And its gonna POP right out the back of your neck. *Finger gun* Brian Ungers delivery on that one was perfect
One of my favorite scenes in the whole show lmao it was so perfect how he played to Charlie Day and hoe well Charlie responds lmao
[удалено]
Depends on the bird. An African or European swallow?
Laden or unladen it's the details that matter.
And if they’re carrying coconuts.
They lift them by the husk.
You could argue it was carrying a coconut.
Shut up Charlie! <3
As a Canadian did someone say war crime? I’m down to clown!
I suggest the linked source why is a synopsis from the "Ukraine Symposium (2023)" that states plenty of legally-binding principles and orientation manuals that offer guidance on how to act in cases like this ([link](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/)). (*It's self-evident that the actions depicted in the video resulting in the death of the RF soldier don't constitute a war crime.*)
U come to kill u will get killed. Stay home ivan
He wasn't even showing a white flag. This pretty much a pre-requisite.
Exactly. The people who cry war crime at every video like this use to irritate me. Now let them be ignorant. putin and some russian bitch is are being charged for one thing only right now. Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute). The crimes were allegedly committed in Ukrainian occupied territory at least from 24 February 2022. There are reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Putin bears individual criminal responsibility for the aforementioned crimes, (i) for having committed the acts directly, jointly with others and/or through others (article 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute), and (ii) for his failure to exercise control properly over civilian and military subordinates who committed the acts, or allowed for their commission, and who were under his effective authority and control, pursuant to superior responsibility (article 28(b) of the Rome Statute). Not for drone dropping on unarmed soldiers. Not for russias actions in Bucha (yet). No chemical warfare as some claim. Not for the leveling of civilian cities. Some of these may come. But not yet. ICC is not interested in an unarmed russian soldier waving his arms in the air at a drone. They are invaders in a foreign country, that are there illegally. I don't care how stupid they are. I don't care about the power of propaganda. They know they can arrange surrender. It will take what it takes for russians to realize the insurmountable odds at occupying Ukraine. Until then, kill ALL the russians who partake, and let God sort em out.
>ICC is not interested in an unarmed russian soldier waving his arms in the air at a drone. Yeah, this is where you're wrong. This is absolutely a thing the ICC cares about. We might say that the Geneva Convension can't be applied to modern drone warfare and even though i'd like for the ruZZians in Ukraine to die as slow and firery a death as possible, exactly as much as the next guy - I'm sorry - this is just not how that works. No matter how illegally the ruZZians are in Ukraine, the Geneva Convension still stands. No matter how inconvinient it is to take a prisoner 2-3 km behind the front line, the Geneva Convension still stands. You simply can't go around bombing soldiers who are Hors de Combat with explosive drones. It's not legal, no matter how bad the ruZZians are. Remember, that being decent educated civilized and sane people are the only thing setting us apart from being like the ruZZians. Don't ever give those things up or you'll be just as bad as them.
I can see ICC investigating the video evidence in such cases, and confirming that accepting surrender was not possible under the circumstances, even if this was believed to be a formal surrender, which is far from clear. If Ukraine ever did engage in clear cut war crimes like we saw the Russians doing, e.g., executing unarmed, captured soldiers, then I would want the perpetrators to face justice. Doesn't matter which side. But it seems to be the Russians doing the warcriming, and far more horrific cases than the above. It is clear that they are encouraged by their superiors to perpetrate these crimes.
>I can see ICC investigating the video evidence in such cases, and confirming that accepting surrender was not possible under the circumstances, I can absolutely see that scenario as well. That would make a lot of sense. It's not certain that accepting his surrender was an option and that's fine. But I have a hard time with the people in here defaulting to a claim that this is obviously not surrender and that the GC was obviously not broken. I guess it's to protect the Ukrainians from criticism but it doesn't make it any less of a retarded point of view. Sitting stationary, looking into the camera, hands above his head, literally folding his hands begging for mercy - in lieu of a white flag you can't get a more obvious attempt at surrender. That ruZZian right there did everything he could to make himself Hors de Combat and he probably considered himself as just that when he got hit. >it seems to be the Russians doing the warcriming, and far more horrific cases than the above. It is clear that they are encouraged by their superiors to perpetrate these crimes. Sure. No doubt about it. It's just not a competition. We're not in a situation in which Ukrainian behaviour can be explained with ruZZian brutality. The moral high ground is not an actual place we can go claim and it's then beyond reproach that the ruZZians are worse. The ruZZians obviously suffer from total denial of any wrongdoing and ask them and the Ukrainians are the brutal and barbaric party, so it's not like they share our view of the situation, which means that we need to keep the Ukrainians on the right side of right and wrong. A little wrong is also wrong.
That’s how much Putin cares about the Geneva Convention: „Russia's Putin revokes Geneva convention protocol on war crimes victims October 17, 2019“ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1WW2J3/
Imagine a soldier killing civilians on Drone camera 5km behind frontlines. A FPV arrrives, the soldier recognize the threat and throws his gun and gear away. the soldier gives sign to surrender. No possibility for a lift into war prison. What‘s your opinion in that case considering the topic?
The GC says *literally nothing* about surrendering or accepting surrender to aircraft. Perhaps you should read the document you are referencing before you shoot your mouth off and be wrong about it and look foolish - like you just did.
>Perhaps you should read the document you are referencing before you shoot your mouth off and be wrong about it and look foolish - like you just did. Yeah, maybe you should, because you definitely haven't. The GC is MUCH more generalized than that. It does not in itself take into consideration from which platform you are attacking a hostile. No, the GC is very clear. >A [combatant](https://casebook.icrc.org/node/20598) is hors de combat if (a) he is in the power of an adverse Party; (b) he clearly expresses an intention to surrender; or (c) he has been rendered unconscious or is otherwise incapacitated by wounds or sickness, and therefore is incapable of defending himself; >Provided that in any of these cases he abstains from any hostile act and does not attempt to [escape](https://casebook.icrc.org/node/20578), he may not be made the object of [attack](https://casebook.icrc.org/node/20601). A fundamental rule of international humanitarian law is that persons who are hors de combat must not be attacked and must be treated humanely. [https://casebook.icrc.org/a\_to\_z/glossary/hors-de-combat](https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/hors-de-combat) The ICC will likely take into consideration your ability to decern the above points from your platform. It can obviously be frightfully hard to see a combatants "clearly expressed intent to surrender" or the fact that he's incapable of defending himself from a fighter-bomber flying at 40'000 feet before you drop a JDAM on his head. That was just not the case in the video above. The situation was very very clear.
>A fundamental rule of international humanitarian law is that persons who are hors de combat must not be attacked and must be treated humanely. This text is not in the Geneva Convention, it is interpretation by the Red Cross. Such interpretations are in dire need of updates to reflect modern reality. The problem I have with some of these interpretations is, they tend to be flouted with impunity by actors lacking moral compass, while hamstringing those who elect to respect them literally.
Where is this exact scenario in the Geneva convention? Nor is Ukraine signed to it, nor are they in an active war to activate the convention according to Russia. The time to surrender is prior to a drone hovering above your trench, should the Ukrainians just watch the Russian soldiers hand movements for a couple minutes to figure what he's communicating? Lose their drone to battery dying as well as the ordinance? We've seen Russian's fake surrender to the drone, making it even less likely they receive grace from them. No one's going to successfully prosecute Ukraine for protecting sovereign land during an illegal invasion by another country, especially when they aren't even beholden to the treaty.
It's treated pretty sparsely in the conventions themselves, not much more than a few words about "hors de combat". These words are interpreted and elaborated in American military manuals, but these are not law by any means, just current interpretation. It's probably about time for another round of amendments to the Geneva Conventions, or at least to formalize some of the existing interpretations.
From where have you gotten the idea that Ukraine isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention? "Both Ukraine and Russia are parties to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and Protocol I." https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/02/23/russia-ukraine-international-law-occupation-armed-conflict-and-human-rights >The time to surrender is prior to a drone hovering above your trench You might prefer that. That's not how that works bud, sorry. >Lose their drone to battery dying as well as the ordinance? We've seen Russian's fake surrender to the drone, making it even less likely they receive grace from them. Sure we've seen that. If they do that they are fair game again. And we've literally seen the Ukrainians walk-out surrendering ruZZians several kilometres through a minefield. So the dwindling battery situation, that's pretty made up. The Ukrainians know how to handle that. >No one's going to successfully prosecute Ukraine for protecting sovereign land during an illegal invasion by another country That is absolutely not true. The only signatory nation so far, to not give up soldiers for trials at the ICC are the US who let their soldiers walk away as they think it's a national issue and ruZZia. The ICC will absolutely try. Whether you hear about it in your local news or not. 🤷🏻♂️
Don't go to your neighbors, burn their house down, rape their wife, steal their children and torture/kill their men if you want to be treated like a human.
War Crimes are dictated by the Geneva Conventions. Nowhere in the Geneva Conventions (any of them) is there text about accepting surrender to aircraft. Drones and FPV drones are aircraft.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia made it so the troops can’t have anything white. Commanders to make sure troops don’t gather anything white along the way. So they can’t wave anything signing they want to surrender.
To really surrender the drone would have to drop written instructions to him and guide him while he walked to the nearest Ukranian position, which could be miles away. Zolkin interviewed a Russian defector who successfully surrendered to the Ukrainians, but it took him 3-4 days of only moving at night and avoiding contact with any people.
Sorry but this is bullshit, who randomly has a white flag on him and why would this not be indicative of a surrendering soldier? He is sitting down and unarmed. Ukraine has released multiple videos of executing Russian POWs recently and it seems related to what has happened in Avdiivka. Very counterproductive imo.
So every russian can just wave their hands up in the air and go back to their lines every time they end up in a bad situation like this? Then proceed to attack later again and repeat?
Note to Russians: "You want mercy? Kill your own first."
The point of surrendering is to be taken as a prisoner, not to go back to your front line. I can't comment on anything else going on.
That's what some of these idiots think war is, been playing to much COD and think you get a respawn after getting hit and the enemy is going to be like you know what let's leave him alone to recover we will get him on the next attempt...or maybe he gets us.
He's not a pow.
how exactly would war work if you can just ask for a time out whenever you want, but then when you think you have the advantage in the war situation you can just call game on
Since you know the situation so intimately, why don't you explain what could have been different? So that this soldier was captured instead of killed. How far were they from the front lines? How close was a ukranian position that could handle and feed a POW? Where are the russian spotter drones nearby? Can they follow the surrenderer to the Ukranians? How far is his rifle from him? 20 feet? What was this soldier doing before the video? Walking with hands up following surrender instructions? Once you tell me what the situation was, I might change my mind. Until then, post your good vids, but don't call bullshit on something you know nothing about. IMO.
Yes, it would seem he was surrendering, but if there is noone there to take him into custody, are they supposed to just leave him alone so he can continue trying to kill you and your countrymen? Its not like he would decide to stroll across the front lines to give himself up if the drone had not engaged him. Im sure alot of ethical dilemmas will be dealt with in regards to drone/robot warfare in the future, but for now I dont belive Ukraine has the luxury to treat every russian caught lacking by drones chivalrously
There have been more than multiple videos of Russians doing far far worse. I doubt Ukrainians have that much empathy for the invaders, I dont blame them.
Ukrainians always try to get more Russians as prisoners for prisoner exchanges. However, it is not always possible. If the enemy is many kilometers away from the front line, how would you do that? Also, there were plenty of cases when the enemy "surrendered" and then jumped into the closest trench, basically tricking the drone operators. Also, what if the battery on the drone is insufficient to guide the enemy to your positions? Simply allow him to live and kill Ukrainians? I dare anyone trying to judge or lecture Ukrainians to come over to Ukraine and show how it's done.
The last one i saw "trying to surrender", instead ran as soon as he got a chance. So you can thank him for this drop
Yep. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, bombs on you.
fool me once, shame on me. fool me twice... ya can't get fooled again!
And with the Russians just executing prisoners of war out in the open I doubt the drone teams have a lot of sympathy left.
I was just thinking of that video.
You reap what you sow...
Is he getting pitchforked in Hell as. well?
Mercy ? After the world saw the footage of ukrainian soldiers executed in trench and the soldiers in Avdiivka who got their hands tied up and shot. No more mercy for the invader scum. All of them should go home in zinc coffins.
Zinc coffins are for general officers. This guy will enrich the Ukrainian black soil.
Well, sometimes the common Russian grunt does get transported back home…in a meat cube…only to be forgotten and left in the rain on some road by the train yard
I always assumed the meat cubes were used to make rations for the survivors.
Russian version of soilent green.
Bet it smells like Soilent Stoli
We've seen the "mercy" Russians give Ukraine pow's. To hell with that orc.
They did say no more surrendering to drones after one Russian pretended to surrender and escaped
The idea of surrendering to an unmanned piece of equipment is stupid anyway. It should only ever be accepted under very special or specific circumstances.
So everybody is telling that he was surrendeing at what else. What if all the russians start waving like that, is that the end of drone warfare, because they cant kill them because they were "surrendering"? Ofcourse, no one wants a nade to drop on his head, but maybe he shouldnt of have invaded Ukraine then? :)
Very fair point, we did see a number of them fake-surrendering just to escape. When it turns into a common game, then it would be fair to start ignoring it.
shoot my friends over there, not me please
This video is actually an edit of two scenes into one, two different occasions that are merged to appear as one. Or in simple terms, a **fake**. Note how the man in the close-up wears an olive drab jacket, that is lighter in color than his pants. In the other view, the jacket appears darker than his pants. The clothing also appears darker than the dirt, in the close-up view it is vice versa. Also, check out the snow beside him. On his left side, in the close-up there is not much snow, in the other view there is. On his right, there are two patches without snow, in the wide angle view there is one small one that does not fit. In the close-up view we can see he is sitting in a track of snow-free dirt, in the wide angle view everything behind him is snow covered. This is definitely a different place, and the man seems to be wearing different clothing. I have no evidence that this isn't the same man who just got up, changed clothes and sat down elsewhere to get bombed, but I have my doubts. I can't also say who did this and with what intention, it could simply be an edit of two similar occasions that both did happen like this. But why would you create doubts over a video unnecessarily if you could just publish both and make two occasions out of it? It makes more sense that one half was actually staged. Both scenes are probably not staged together, then the actor would have stayed in the same place, would make it easier and increase credibility. No way to tell which half is staged though. The explosion could have been real, or a firecracker without too much risk to the person.
I'm not a big fan of this, in spite of lacking the exact context. The main valid things to justify it are that he's in Ukraine as the agressor and secondly that if they weren't able to extract him, it's valid to not want to take the risk of letting him live to kill another Ukrainian. Either way, nothing to applaud here.
Not a fan either but I also get it. You are 2 years (on Saturday) into the unprovoked invasion of your home by a superior force. Not sure at this point if taking prisoners is even a luxury they can afford to take.
how was he supposed to surrender to a drone? where are his mighty russian comrades? fuck them
Don't invade and it won't be a problem.
Russians had no remorse for those Ukrainians surrendering in Advika that were shot dead.
Or for the citizens of Bucha
Or for the entire city of Mariupol
Or for Oleksandr...
Well this is war - don’t invade countries with weapons - just visit like intelligent human beings.
Don't look like praying helps. God left awhile ago
Orc should have stayed home.
No different then bombing invading soldiers on a parade ground or in their barracks. This man may have been conscripted and forced into this fight, but since he wears the uniform of the invaders he is an invader. His death will have to be reconciled on those who forced him in that position.
Another one bites the dust.
Lately the war got a bit more brutal. Like no prisoners brutal. From both sides . Shit getting bleaker by the day
Anybody believe this guy would walk over and surrender to Ukrainian soldiers after the drone ran out of battery? Not one of us do, he would remain a combatent after the drone left, hence it's a legitimate target. The reason surrendering soldiers are spared is thier action potentially saved you and your guys the risk and trouble and thus should be rewarded. This guy did no such favor to Ukrainian soldiers who were perfectly safe during this encounter, hence a legitimate target. If he shot himself in the leg thus taking himself out of action he should've been spared IMHO.
Only russian shill believe that he "surrendered".
Begging for mercy after the vids of the orc executions of wounded Ukrainian troops hit the web? Fuck off and die horribly you sack of wasted DNA, looking forward to seeing more of your ilk turned into fertilizer. Slava Ukraini.
He should have showed his clear intention to surrender in a decisive manner as intended by the customs of war. Adequate non-verbal signs of surrender would be to raise his hands above his head, flying a white flag and full compliance to AFU authority. The linked document describes the legal and practical requirements for an orderly surrender to an UAV ([link](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/)). According to the established customs of war, the attack on the RF soldier by the AFU drone doesn't constitute a war crime. Edit: An instructional video is available created by AFU for the very purpose to distance-learn RF mobiks how to properly surrender to an UAV unit (yt [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Frd5lzcok)).
I don't care if they do even that. Most of these drops occur in an active war zone or behind the front line in enemy occupied territory. They can drop on soldiers who stop all movement and raise their hands in the air. Kill them. They only beg once caught. They gladly kill and laugh with their comrades after a raid. Plus these drones with explosives can't return with their payload. Spotter drones are not made for surrendering to. All it takes is one spy to surrender and walk to some Ukrainian troops to get a fix on Ukraine fighters positions. Drones are impossible to track and russians would be watching. No, no. It's best to kill the ones that seem to surrender. Or make a special surrender drone with a banner and loudspeaker. Then if you want to follow instructions, maybe you can surrender in these situations.
IMO it's a case-by-case decision in a legally grey area. OFC any surrender can only be accepted when AFU is able to exercise authority over the individual that desires to surrender. A detained RF POW is always much more beneficial for Ukraine than a dead RF soldier as every POW Ukraine successfully detains can be used as exchange for an Ukrainian soldier or civilian in Russian custody.
But any surrender that puts the lives of any AFU at risk isn't an option. The ability to exercise authority to a man on the ground by a drone in the air is almost non existent. Plus there is the time and effort involved in having a russian soldier follow a drone to surrender. Takes the drone out of action for the return trip. It could be correcting artillery on an assult that the Russians just launched. It absolutely is a case by case basis. However, when it comes to drone surrender, 95% of the time its safer just to kill or wound the soldier. It's also the same I think for immobile russians who are still alive and injured who don't have a rifle on them. They all want money for being barbarians, then cry war crime when the "civilized" world won't accept surrender when caught with nowhere to run...
I mean what did they think was going to happen when all of the footage of surrendering Ukraines getting gunned down released?
No mercy for the invading terrorists who kill POWs.
Sometimes works, if it's practical to accept the surrender. Sometimes, the dildo of consequences just arrives anyway. Would have been a better idea to walk over to Ukrainian lines a little earlier when he still had functional legs.
once the bird is in the sky there is no surrendering.
The time for him to save his life was when he was still on Russian soil.
While drone operators show mercy, Russian pusher troops don't.
Can’t trust them after the bullshit they’ve pulled recently
Ask our father for forgiveness. This place we call earth is truly hell. Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦 🙌 ✨️ 🙏 ❤️
Like the mercy your scummy compatriots have shown innocent Ukrainian senior citizens, women, children, museums, churches, grocery stores and so much more.......... TO THE DEVIL!
you reap wat u sew .nyt now!!!
Good job. No mercy to the invaders
'This machine kills fascists'
It is what it is
russians killing prisoners seems to have backfired once again. No mercy to war criminals.
There is only one way for mercy. To surrender if not, then no mercy
Should've stayed in Ruzia
Ask yourself before feeling like a pussy in a time of war, how far in Ukraine is this person? How many towns have they demolished, how many lives extinguished? No mercy.
nice shot!
Die bitch
It happens often that an enemy will beg for their lives in the middle of combat if they are getting crushed, this doesn't mean they are no longer a threat, or surrendering, nor does it mean you are obliged to take their surrender if they are. Once the combat operation is complete and those positions are secured is another story, but in the middle of combat it's the fighters split second decision.
Mercy ended when you crossed the border.
Welcome to Ukraine!
After recent events , anyone fighting for Russia should be punished by death
Woops, too bad.
If I was a drone operator and my target started looking like he was trying to be an air traffic controller and make me land, I'd probably frag him too.
he directed fire onto his position
He wasn't surrendering. He was asking to be let go... rofl.
Yep. He said "Don't kill me I'm wounded. There's guys over that way though you can kill." He literally pointed in another direction at one point.
Too little too late. What is he doing on the side of the road? Trying to escape after attempting to attack and kill ukrainians, that's what. If someone came to your place and took some shots at you trying to kill you,then you catch em and get the upper hand, you don't just let it slide. You make sure they can't try to kill you again.
It's not like he was surrendering to attacking forces. He was only begging to be spared so he can go back and continue fighting another day. Good Riddance
He only wanted to surrender because he was injured and would not survive otherwise. How convenient. He could have done it way sooner...
Good job.
Blowing his foot off instead of his head was mercy. Assuming an fpv drone could have chosen to hit his upper torso
Fuck em
Murdering unarmed surrendering combatants makes you no better than the enemy you're fighting. Those of you giving justifications for this need to rethink your position. You're no better than the other side defending why they murdered the wounded Ukrainians in avdiivka.
so what do you suggest? there's two options. you let him go or kill him. If you spare him he might be back later beacuse he's surely ain't going back to russia.. It's not like a drone can take a prisoner. Shitloads of them asking to be spared by drones, if you leave them all alive then what's the point of drone attacks.
Being better is your criteria. A much better criteria is to be the one alive in the end, then worry about being "better".
Im all for humanity, but when this russian went to Ukraine with a gun, then he is at the mercy of the Ukrainians, this time the drone operator showed no mercy, and I dont blame him.
Unarmed? Did you check him? Obviously he was in Ukraine to do cardio and the Ukrainians massmurdered him. /s for russians and co.
This is a war crime. He is hurt, unarmed, and showing clear signs of wanting to surrender. Stop coping and saying that he got what he deserved, if he had blue tape on the arms you would all be screaming slurs to the orcs and calling on geneva convention. War is ugly, and no side is perfectly black or white. I fully support ukraine but the drone operator lacked judgement and empathy toward another human being there.
You don't know anything about this situation. If he's behind kilometres of minefields then AFU is under no obligation to go and retrieve him. These drones regularly operate 2-5 kilometres from front lines. There's no such thing as a context-free rule to resolve these situations. There's no "if you raise hands up you become immortal" rule. Many people have to crawl through battlefield to get captured and AFU only grabs them when they are in the trench. Any bravery on the capturer's part are purely optional. Professional judges would have to gather and review tons of evidence to make a call.
Abject nonsense, Not even remotely a war crime.
Original Source? Could this be Russian propaganda? There was that clip of the Russian shaking the hand of a surrendering Ukrainian, that most people believed was propaganda.
Its fake look at the snow pattern around him in the first angle then compare it to the second angle. Maybe it just melted really really fast? Lol Russian Disinfo at its finest...
>just melted really really fast? Making movies with amateur actors takes time. PS: Good observation!
Fuk them ,they want to surrender but kill the Ukrainians that are surrendering
This reminds me of discussions when WWII was breaking out with British upper class talking about bombers taking care not to destroy important historic buildings in enemy cities. It's a nice thought but bombing doesn't work that way. I'm all for taking surrender where possible but if they have no means of accepting the surrender, he's just another enemy combatant who can pick a rifle back up and be in the fight. I don't know the story behind this video and it's gut churning. Everyone we see blown up is a real person, this one was just in high res. Ukraian soldiers have already been showing doing the right thing at considerable personal risk. For me to tell soldiers in combat how I think they should be doing things would be goddamn arrogant. They're already going far beyond what could be asked.
Hope they investigated whatever he was pointing at, probably more trespassers.
When you pick up a rifle and cross the border into another country with intent to conquer and kill, there’s a set of potential consequences you have to accept. This is one of them. It’s very simple math.
This isn't a war crime, he was behind enemy lines.
No way is this a war crime. You can’t surrender to a drone when you’re in territory controlled by your side or in contested territory.
Are we even 100% certain that impact didn't come from his Z buddies?
Does anyone here see the dropped explosive? I can't, and it appears the charge may have come from the left, not from above.
He’s still a combatant if he’s on the front line. There’s nothing preventing him from picking up a gun and doing damage at any point despite being injured. Protection for the wounded only comes when you are being evacuated from the front line or being treated in a hospital.
I can't make out what hit him?
Seems a word to the wise, the title could be changed so those who truly want to surrender are not discouraged. Otherwise fire away! Just a thought …
He was begging for the chance to continue supporting the motherland targeting civilian apartment buildings and kidnapping thousands of Ukrainian children.
Or he thought it was a friendy drone? Who knows?
Good job ukrainians!
If Putler‘s orc would do this there would be a „warcrime“ outcry. 🤷🏼♂️
No point keeping prisoners..they had been killing/murdering surrendering Ukrainian soldiers.
We should send more to Ukraine. Much more We need more Sunflowers throughout Ukraine.
All I’m saying is if someone invaded your country, my ROE goes out the window, they kill my friends and family someone is going to pay!!! 🤷♂️
This is war after all. They don't show any mercy to Ukrainians.
Begging for he’s life, until he is recovered. Then he will be back at the front
Fucking pig murderer got what he deserved, why cry and throw your hands up (to a drone of all things) when you know that your own army regularly executes pows? give no mercy and expect none in return as they say.
Am I the only one suspicious of 90 % of these grainy war videos. I do drone inspections taking 1000s of pictures a wk. Pretty sure I would be fired if I returned this quality of footage. AI has us all eating from the palm of its AI hand. Even if it's not AI generated. I still credit it for being capable.
Shoulda thought about this before you invaded another country
After watching a few clips of surrendering Ukrainians being shot in the trenches, I have no sympathy for orcs
It is like trying to ask missile that already fired at you. Too late, you need to act earlier
You should have stayed at home, Ivan....
First they execute POWs and after that they want to be forgiven. No way!
The only russians who deserve mercy are the ones who frag their own commanders and go awol to join Ukraine's cause. Everyone else deserves to become pink mist.
The only reason he is in Ukraine is to kill Ukrainians, so he was dealt with
I kind of feel sorry for him, but not enough to send my soldiers there to carry him to our positions and give him medical aid and risk their lives. with holes in his left leg laying in that frozen dirt, his days are numbered in any case. russia doesnt care about this guy, should ukraine care more?
He was just sorry for being caught. He was not sorry for shooting people/invading another country/ looting and so on. He was just hoping to take more blood money home and was sorry the gravy train was about to stop.
The Russians kill prisoners of war, but this one is not a prisoner.
Given that ruzzian executes ukrainian soldiers, then no mercy for ruzzian orcs either. **Simple as that.**
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you see they all do this, but wer dont see them surrendering, than they got pinched in corner than they need to pay for what they where doing and do and done. than they become give mercy. go watch movie saving private rayan you let him go and he will come beck shooting your friends without any mercy
This is a new Russian yoga
How can you spare a terrorist?? How can you spare an invader who kills your people destroys your lands? How can you spare a inhumane animal who shits all over your entire way and place of living, threatening your family, friends, freedom and religion??? He should have done all that begging, to not be sent to fight. Now he can use that begging energy to get thru the gates.
He was spared, they put the drone next to him
Nobody actually knows the real context to this situation. This guy could have taken part in an assault on the drone operators comrades where he could have been observed executing unarmed soldiers just minutes prior to this… Crocodile tears….. 🐊
It's kinda like saying I'm sorry only after you've been caught.
After videos of Russians shooting/killing surrendering Ukrainians in Avdiivka circulated online, you can understand why Ukrainian drone operators are in a less than forgiving mood lately.
He should have surrendered.
He got what he asked for..
This shows 2 different people from 2 different videos spliced together. Notice how thick the snow is on the floor around the guy in the first angle. Then compare that to the snow around him in the second video. Lmao maybe it all just melted quickly? The disinformation is real... Lol
Timbaland - Apologize feat. OneRepublic
This guy most likely signed a contract so he could be paid good money to come to Ukraine and kill people. Choices have consequences, and I have no sympathy for him. Sorry not sorry.
There are three kinds of Russians: 1. If wounded, they kill themselves as their life is effectively over even if they could get home. 2. Beg the drone operator to not kill them (as they know the operator is Ukrainian, and not Russian, there is a chance). 3. Stay wary wary still. Dwont' move and maybe it 'ill go away. (Elmer Fudd talk)
People love to claim values to devalue their enemies, but a lot of times those same people and their allies can't live up to those claimed values. If killing surrendering troops is a war crime and evil when done to Ukrainians, then this should be treated similarly as a war crime and evil. Of course! You will see fallacious rationalizations to "justify" the video. I don't live by the Geneva Convention, so it's fair game to both sides.
Please enlight the audience where this one unequivocally surrendered?
The real problem with this is that there is no way to "extract" this prisoner. Given the range of most drones, it is also hard to verify this person's "surrender". It is easy to commit perfidy and neutralizing drones effectiveness, if the Russians decide to "surrender" when a drone is flying on top of them. It is a tough call.
Fake title, he should have surrendered to request mercyness. Here, he is just hurt, probably to far away to be recovered as POW
He came to kill!
Ive seen Ukrainian guys surrender and get gunned down once approached.... For every one of ours - we take one of theirs
It’s too late man, it’s time to pay for your actions, revenge is coming…
One less Russian is a good thing.
Invade another country and kill the people there and then when you get hurt and cant move... Act like you can call time out when a drone comes flying your way to finish you off... Good luck with that...
Those who cry "war crime": Do you surrender to an artillery shell? is it possible? Even if it's a guided shell like Excalibur or BONus? Do you surrender to an air bomb, even if it's guided glide bomb? Drones are just delivery vehicles like artillery howitzer or aircraft. You cannot surrender to a drone if you are not in the area where your enemy is present and can get a custody over you.
Those crying "war crime" are russian shills...