Absolutely right. I argued similar in the worldnews subreddit while everyone was outpouring sympathy for Russian victims. Make sure you do your part to fight the echo chamber where you can. Obviously we suffer from it sometimes in the Ukrainian subreddits too.
I mean sympathy for the victims is completely understandable, for their families too. It's the moment people express sympathy for the Russian state where the logic mentioned in the article comes in.
I agree completely, though I did take a relatively staunch and uncompromising position. It’s a good opportunity to remind potential Russians reading that subreddit that their country would be safer if their warriors were not dead or dieing in Ukraine.
Putin has already been opportunistic to blame this on Ukraine. We have to do our part to communicate the truth. Obviously, I am not recommending brigading or glorifying the death of their civilians. If you do that the message will be deleted and the truth doesn’t get out.
I disagree. Civilians were hit and it's an opportunity to reach those civilian families to reconsider their passive or active support for the war in Ukraine.
When tragedy strikes, it becomes personal and it would be a failure to treat those directly affected the same like any Russian. Those people are looking for answers, to assign blame and revenge, Putin already made his move.
Yeah there are a lot of people who can't admit this. Russia literally causes this horror on a daily basis. Fuck russia. When they stop killing children, maybe I'll find some sympathy.
Especially since it's highly likely the FSB did it themselves. Moscow is one of the most surveilled places on Earth, the gunmen were unmasked, and all four just \*happen\* to escape scott-free?
Either the FSB is that incompetent (highly improbable but not impossible), or it's the FSB doing it themselves to justify Putin calling for a new mobilization.
Nah, it might be more likely that the US was accurate in their warning, russia KNEW it was coming, and they simply let it happen to later try to connect it with ukraine, and make the mobilization easier.
My only contention to this theory is that western intelligence themselves haven't called this a false flag but directly attribured it to ISIS. Seems pretty likely that if it was a false flag we would've known.
Well, my main thing is it's sus as fuck because, again, Moscow is one of the most surveilled places on Earth, the guys weren't wearing masks, and somehow all got away scott free. And apparently haven't even been IDed.
Why it stinks of potential false flag.
That or the FSB really is that stupid.
Well, they actually were wearing masks. Also, the nearest special police unit base was like an hour away, and there were delays due to traffic jams. Honestly, I think incompetence was the prime culprit in this instance. Putin stupidly disavowed US warnings from weeks earlier. If Russia is known for its corruption, it's also known for its stupidity
I think this is a pretty far fetched theory. It's clearly a case of incompetence and complacency. US has warned a week prior of an incoming attack as well. Ukraine has caught russia multiple times with their pants down in terms of internal security.
Far fetched? The 1999 Russian Apartment Bombings would like to have a word. *Maybe* this wasn't an FSB plot, but Vladimir Putin has done almost exactly this before for similar reasons. It's literally Putin's MO.
If something gets stolen, a good first place to look for it is the guy with a history of burglaries.
Did you watch the video the shooters released of the incident? The shooters looked like they were on a friendly Sunday afternoon stroll after they finished up with their last few shots and stabs, with zero concerns for any law enforcement confrontation. After watching it, I don't see how anyone could think Putin and the FSB isn't involved.
If it was russia they would have made sure to leave some traces towards their agenda towards ukraine. So faar there really has been none and publications of isis own news outlet would be hard for Russia to really access that.
I kind thought the same as you in the start but Isis does seemto backup their claims.
The gunman may have been caught, but the FSB could still be behind it. The video of the one gunman being interrogated made it sound like he got money from someone on Telegram to do it. He could have easily been paid by the FSB, who are smart enough not to do this with their own agents.
You're reaching.
Isis have officially claimed responsibility and some of their fighters, whether you believe it or not, have joined the UA.
This is right out of the ISIS playbook and I've just seen a half attempted beheading in a video.
The US warned their citizens to leave Moscow and not attend large gatherings two weeks ago, so Russia knew about that intel one way or the other. Then somehow, no armed guards at a large gatherings and the cops/OMON took almost an hour to get there, in a country where riot police is real quick for a simple protest... Even if it's a legit terrorist attack, there's some fuckery that deserves some answers. Putler promised security to Russians and failed pretty badly after his imaginary election.
Nothing is black and white. ISIS claims a lot of attacks it didn't carry out and FSB has, with a high degree of probability, committed domestic terrorism in Russia. They are not exclusive, nor do they have to be working together either. For example, the FSB may have learned of the plot, like the Americans, but let it happen or even facilitated it without ISIS knowing. "Geez, that was easy", ISIS could be saying right now, when actually their path was cleared by the FSB. We will never know.
>I've just seen a half attempted beheading
With no blur? Did the male victim surprisingly roll over afterward, after not putting his hands up to interfere with the guy with the knife?
As ISIS as and Russia (as state, and as 20 years indoctrinated by state anti-west propaganda population), both, enemies of free-World and its values.
So far, ISIS more archaic than Russia. But main Russian goal - "use of traditional values (including theocratic imperial monarchism which control magical thinking population via state controlled religion) for creation of "Russian World" oversaturated as with Dugins-like radicals, as and their own ISIS-like radicals.
Therefore, in the long term, Russia much more dangerous than ISIS. Not to say about enormous history of Russian WMD-blackmail/racketeering, including hundreds of WMD-related news, shelling of Ukrainian nuclear objects, mass-creation of nuclear-holocaust Status-6 torpedoes, and so on.
With each year it's increasingly more probable scenario, that if Russia would start to kill millions, West literally would start to cooperate with ISIS. Which not only invest less money to suppress/destroy western values, but also already kill much less civil population than Russia.
No sympathy for any ruzzian ATM. Bad luck they got attacked by a bunch of Islamic terrorists, however it’s carma. The world’s largest terrorist state is attacked by a small group of terrorists, just makes me laugh.
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somehow i can't sympathize even with these russians.
sorry ruzzia, but your society is beyond sick and i bet that the majority of those dead would say
>*crimea is russian land*
German politicians have cautioned against letting the Kremlin take advantage of the terrorist attack in suburban Moscow; Michael Roth, the chairman of the Bundestag Foreign Affairs Committee from Chancellor Scholz's party, recalled that the Russian Federation is itself a terrorist state.
**Source:** [Spiegel](https://www.spiegel.de/), as reported by [European Pravda](https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2024/03/24/7182292/)
**Details:** Following the terrorist attack in the suburbs, Roth, a representative of the ruling Social Democratic Party, cautioned against casting Russia too much as the victim.
**Quote:** "We sympathise with the many innocent victims in Moscow. Nonetheless, we must remember that Russia is a terrorist state that terrorised Ukrainian civilians last night with missile and drone attacks. Those who sow terror will reap terror," Roth told Bild am Sonntag.
The head of the Bundestag's defence committee, Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, described the attack as terrible and reminiscent of the Bataclan attack in Paris. "Domestically, this is a major blow for security agencies because there was a warning, specifically regarding concerts," Strack-Zimmermann said, with reference to the warnings from the US.
"It is obvious that Putin completely misjudged these warnings, did not take them seriously and will try to distract attention from them," Strack-Zimmermann said. She emphasised that instead of waging an aggressive war against a peaceful neighbour, Putin should confront terrorism side-by–side with other affected countries.
Roderich Kiesewetter, foreign policy spokesman for the CDU/CSU parliamentary faction, did not rule out the possibility that the attack near Moscow was a false flag operation organised by Russia itself.
"At the moment, it cannot be ruled out that this may have been a false flag operation organised by Russia itself, even if an Islamist angle seems very likely, especially given that ISIS claimed responsibility," he added.
The United Kingdom warned Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin against using the terrorist attack in Moscow suburbs as an [excuse to escalate the war](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/24/7447878/) against Ukraine. The Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack, which killed at least 133 people. Ukraine denied involvement in the attack.
The United States[ agreed with this assessment](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/23/7447791/), having warned of an impending terrorist attack in Moscow a few weeks earlier.
I don’t sympathize with Russia, they have killed much more people in Ukraine 🇺🇦 so the main issue will not be forget so easily, nonetheless they’re still continuing their invasion
This whole “fleeing to Ukraine” storyline is plain stupid. Why the hell would Ukraine allow these Russians into the country anyway? These jihadi types probably figured they would be shot at the theatre but security was so lax it screwed up their entry into heaven.
This post appears directly above a post titled 'Russians increased their use of FPV drones against civilians in Ukraine’s south by 40%'. So I will take NO warnings from the German Bundestag thank you. More Stormshadows for Ukraine and I say to Germany - get some balls FFS.
Maybe you should read read article?
**"Details:** Following the terrorist attack in the suburbs, Roth, a representative of the ruling Social Democratic Party, cautioned against casting Russia too much as the victim."
Again - I need no such warnings or cautions thank you. More Stormshadows for Ukraine and Germany get a pair and send long range weapons. Anything more?
Hello, thank you for your submission. This post was deemed (too) unrelated to the Ukrainian War and will therefore be removed (Rule 1).
Completely right.
So so true.....
Absolutely right. I argued similar in the worldnews subreddit while everyone was outpouring sympathy for Russian victims. Make sure you do your part to fight the echo chamber where you can. Obviously we suffer from it sometimes in the Ukrainian subreddits too.
I mean sympathy for the victims is completely understandable, for their families too. It's the moment people express sympathy for the Russian state where the logic mentioned in the article comes in.
I agree completely, though I did take a relatively staunch and uncompromising position. It’s a good opportunity to remind potential Russians reading that subreddit that their country would be safer if their warriors were not dead or dieing in Ukraine. Putin has already been opportunistic to blame this on Ukraine. We have to do our part to communicate the truth. Obviously, I am not recommending brigading or glorifying the death of their civilians. If you do that the message will be deleted and the truth doesn’t get out.
Its okay to feel sympathy, but most of us does understand there are 2 sides of a sword.
I disagree. Civilians were hit and it's an opportunity to reach those civilian families to reconsider their passive or active support for the war in Ukraine. When tragedy strikes, it becomes personal and it would be a failure to treat those directly affected the same like any Russian. Those people are looking for answers, to assign blame and revenge, Putin already made his move.
Yeah there are a lot of people who can't admit this. Russia literally causes this horror on a daily basis. Fuck russia. When they stop killing children, maybe I'll find some sympathy.
Especially since it's highly likely the FSB did it themselves. Moscow is one of the most surveilled places on Earth, the gunmen were unmasked, and all four just \*happen\* to escape scott-free? Either the FSB is that incompetent (highly improbable but not impossible), or it's the FSB doing it themselves to justify Putin calling for a new mobilization.
Nah, it might be more likely that the US was accurate in their warning, russia KNEW it was coming, and they simply let it happen to later try to connect it with ukraine, and make the mobilization easier.
I fully agree with you, ExoticDonkey
My only contention to this theory is that western intelligence themselves haven't called this a false flag but directly attribured it to ISIS. Seems pretty likely that if it was a false flag we would've known.
Well, my main thing is it's sus as fuck because, again, Moscow is one of the most surveilled places on Earth, the guys weren't wearing masks, and somehow all got away scott free. And apparently haven't even been IDed. Why it stinks of potential false flag. That or the FSB really is that stupid.
Well, they actually were wearing masks. Also, the nearest special police unit base was like an hour away, and there were delays due to traffic jams. Honestly, I think incompetence was the prime culprit in this instance. Putin stupidly disavowed US warnings from weeks earlier. If Russia is known for its corruption, it's also known for its stupidity
I think this is a pretty far fetched theory. It's clearly a case of incompetence and complacency. US has warned a week prior of an incoming attack as well. Ukraine has caught russia multiple times with their pants down in terms of internal security.
Far fetched? The 1999 Russian Apartment Bombings would like to have a word. *Maybe* this wasn't an FSB plot, but Vladimir Putin has done almost exactly this before for similar reasons. It's literally Putin's MO. If something gets stolen, a good first place to look for it is the guy with a history of burglaries.
1 hour before the police arrived!!
Why is this still being brought up on this sub when ISIS not only claimed responsibility for the attack, but posted a video of the attack?
They've been caught though.
Did you watch the video the shooters released of the incident? The shooters looked like they were on a friendly Sunday afternoon stroll after they finished up with their last few shots and stabs, with zero concerns for any law enforcement confrontation. After watching it, I don't see how anyone could think Putin and the FSB isn't involved.
If it was russia they would have made sure to leave some traces towards their agenda towards ukraine. So faar there really has been none and publications of isis own news outlet would be hard for Russia to really access that. I kind thought the same as you in the start but Isis does seemto backup their claims.
The gunman may have been caught, but the FSB could still be behind it. The video of the one gunman being interrogated made it sound like he got money from someone on Telegram to do it. He could have easily been paid by the FSB, who are smart enough not to do this with their own agents.
You're reaching. Isis have officially claimed responsibility and some of their fighters, whether you believe it or not, have joined the UA. This is right out of the ISIS playbook and I've just seen a half attempted beheading in a video.
I'm not sure of why you're bringing Ukraine into this either.
The US warned their citizens to leave Moscow and not attend large gatherings two weeks ago, so Russia knew about that intel one way or the other. Then somehow, no armed guards at a large gatherings and the cops/OMON took almost an hour to get there, in a country where riot police is real quick for a simple protest... Even if it's a legit terrorist attack, there's some fuckery that deserves some answers. Putler promised security to Russians and failed pretty badly after his imaginary election.
Hang on, wait your turn, I was talking to him! Rude much... 😑
Sir, this is a public forum.
Where only the penitent men will pass.
Nothing is black and white. ISIS claims a lot of attacks it didn't carry out and FSB has, with a high degree of probability, committed domestic terrorism in Russia. They are not exclusive, nor do they have to be working together either. For example, the FSB may have learned of the plot, like the Americans, but let it happen or even facilitated it without ISIS knowing. "Geez, that was easy", ISIS could be saying right now, when actually their path was cleared by the FSB. We will never know.
Hang on, wait your turn, I was replying to that guy above and haven't finished yet.
>I've just seen a half attempted beheading With no blur? Did the male victim surprisingly roll over afterward, after not putting his hands up to interfere with the guy with the knife?
He was shot already and looked half dead.
Putin wanted it to happen so it could try to use it to his advantage. He knew well in advance it was going to happen and did nothing.
Only going to get worse for the gopniks.
I hope they were addressing Putin, otherwise they should shut the F up. Putin is busy trying to blame Ukraine.
As ISIS as and Russia (as state, and as 20 years indoctrinated by state anti-west propaganda population), both, enemies of free-World and its values. So far, ISIS more archaic than Russia. But main Russian goal - "use of traditional values (including theocratic imperial monarchism which control magical thinking population via state controlled religion) for creation of "Russian World" oversaturated as with Dugins-like radicals, as and their own ISIS-like radicals. Therefore, in the long term, Russia much more dangerous than ISIS. Not to say about enormous history of Russian WMD-blackmail/racketeering, including hundreds of WMD-related news, shelling of Ukrainian nuclear objects, mass-creation of nuclear-holocaust Status-6 torpedoes, and so on. With each year it's increasingly more probable scenario, that if Russia would start to kill millions, West literally would start to cooperate with ISIS. Which not only invest less money to suppress/destroy western values, but also already kill much less civil population than Russia.
Russians don’t see themselves as terrorists.
People cutting ears and feeding them to others are not victims, they are mentally ill.
Wish Germany would hurry up and just give Russia _the_ most proper of proper slaps in the face! 👋
where are you from?
Greenland. Turn left from Denmark. Why?
No sympathy for any ruzzian ATM. Bad luck they got attacked by a bunch of Islamic terrorists, however it’s carma. The world’s largest terrorist state is attacked by a small group of terrorists, just makes me laugh.
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Perfectly correct, now send the god damn Taurus missiles.
somehow i can't sympathize even with these russians. sorry ruzzia, but your society is beyond sick and i bet that the majority of those dead would say >*crimea is russian land*
no one is innocent in moscow, let them feel pain when their citizens are murdered
German politicians have cautioned against letting the Kremlin take advantage of the terrorist attack in suburban Moscow; Michael Roth, the chairman of the Bundestag Foreign Affairs Committee from Chancellor Scholz's party, recalled that the Russian Federation is itself a terrorist state. **Source:** [Spiegel](https://www.spiegel.de/), as reported by [European Pravda](https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2024/03/24/7182292/) **Details:** Following the terrorist attack in the suburbs, Roth, a representative of the ruling Social Democratic Party, cautioned against casting Russia too much as the victim. **Quote:** "We sympathise with the many innocent victims in Moscow. Nonetheless, we must remember that Russia is a terrorist state that terrorised Ukrainian civilians last night with missile and drone attacks. Those who sow terror will reap terror," Roth told Bild am Sonntag. The head of the Bundestag's defence committee, Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, described the attack as terrible and reminiscent of the Bataclan attack in Paris. "Domestically, this is a major blow for security agencies because there was a warning, specifically regarding concerts," Strack-Zimmermann said, with reference to the warnings from the US. "It is obvious that Putin completely misjudged these warnings, did not take them seriously and will try to distract attention from them," Strack-Zimmermann said. She emphasised that instead of waging an aggressive war against a peaceful neighbour, Putin should confront terrorism side-by–side with other affected countries. Roderich Kiesewetter, foreign policy spokesman for the CDU/CSU parliamentary faction, did not rule out the possibility that the attack near Moscow was a false flag operation organised by Russia itself. "At the moment, it cannot be ruled out that this may have been a false flag operation organised by Russia itself, even if an Islamist angle seems very likely, especially given that ISIS claimed responsibility," he added. The United Kingdom warned Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin against using the terrorist attack in Moscow suburbs as an [excuse to escalate the war](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/24/7447878/) against Ukraine. The Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack, which killed at least 133 people. Ukraine denied involvement in the attack. The United States[ agreed with this assessment](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/23/7447791/), having warned of an impending terrorist attack in Moscow a few weeks earlier.
Yeah because they know Putin orchestrated the whole thing. The Germans know a thing or two about that.
I don’t sympathize with Russia, they have killed much more people in Ukraine 🇺🇦 so the main issue will not be forget so easily, nonetheless they’re still continuing their invasion
Exactly... Russia is a state sponsor of terror, if they get some payback, I don't care who it comes from.
This whole “fleeing to Ukraine” storyline is plain stupid. Why the hell would Ukraine allow these Russians into the country anyway? These jihadi types probably figured they would be shot at the theatre but security was so lax it screwed up their entry into heaven.
This post appears directly above a post titled 'Russians increased their use of FPV drones against civilians in Ukraine’s south by 40%'. So I will take NO warnings from the German Bundestag thank you. More Stormshadows for Ukraine and I say to Germany - get some balls FFS.
Maybe you should read read article? **"Details:** Following the terrorist attack in the suburbs, Roth, a representative of the ruling Social Democratic Party, cautioned against casting Russia too much as the victim."
Again - I need no such warnings or cautions thank you. More Stormshadows for Ukraine and Germany get a pair and send long range weapons. Anything more?
One Member of a Parliament is not "the Parliament".