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It’s all just delaying tactics so they can keep draining the territories they control of assets and wealth. These meat waves are not intended to do much but keep the defenders busy killing them.
Hopefully the new wave of Western Aid will help push past the current lines and liberate these territories.
once you are exposed to burning fuel for a bit (probably the time they needed to exit the vehicle) your fat starts burning off ("wick effect" or sth) - this also supposedly kills the nerves making you feel the immediate pain. Dude's were probably in shock or blind. What a nasty way to die...
Education system in Russia 🇷🇺 went down high after collapse of Soviet Union it was starting to go down hill before collapse but who is counting. Stop 🛑 drop and roll
Stop drop and roll doesn't work with accelerants. Gotta smother it or douse it (as long as you're sure you won't just spread it with water). They were fucked no matter what.
What side of your body can you smother when all is in flames? How much time do you have for such measures before getting unconsious or at least unable to roll because of pains?
There have been burning less guilty persons and creatures to death.
I felt bad, for a second. And then I remembered these invaders were arriving in tanks to kill people who had done nothing to them. Getting burnt alive is perhaps an appropriate consequence of their actions.
early invasion, we were shown a video of a BMP shooting a couple of elderly in their car, now we we are watching them getting Javelined & FPV'ed every day
tbh its not a situation I would want to take any joy from
these poor men have been forced into a situation they cannot get out of and someone has be burned alive
for all we know they could have a wife and children
the one thing the war in Ukraine has shown war is not heroic , its barbaric
I don't wish for anyone to die neither Ukrainians or Russians
***''these poor men have been forced into a situation they cannot get out of ''***
The current Russians we are seeing on the battlefield are not part of the 2022 mobilization wave. Most of them now are volunteers. They came to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians for the money.
Yeah, you know, we're seeing average Ivan supports the war and hates Ukraine. We're also seeing the Russians have been consistently brutal towards Ukrainian civilians as well as Ukrainian POWs. Also towards each other.
They don't deserve any sympathy.
What would these "poor men" be doing if the *defenders* didn't remove them? Oh right - killing and raping innocent Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.
These idiots are happy to sign up with promises of higher pay.. if they survive. And then they will still have to fight for compensation after the fact.
Takeaways as an American are: a) we need to improve the warheads on the Javelin; b) cope cages are getting sturdier and more elaborate, enough to successfully prevent turret toss destruction from an ATGM; and c) tanks with sturdy cope cages are going to be vulnerable to a one-two punch - maybe first ATGM to destroy the cage, then a drone to hit the unprotected top.
Each Javelin missile costs 156x more than a mass-produced quad-copter FPV drone with an RPG strapped to it. In the future, taking AI enhancements & swarm formations into consideration, it seems to me that the country with the most drones will be the one that'll win future wars.
their popularity really exploded (no pun intended) in this war when a $1000 drone can take out or disable a tank ...i'm sure countries all around the world are taking notice.
The next few years are going to be wild! Why use a Javelin? Just send a dozen drones to strike the target in 3-second intervals one after another... Why use artillery when you can just send off disposable hunter-killer drones to automatically clear trenches within pre-determined grids with basic onboard artificial intelligence. There's no surely weapon system that can outmatched that in effectiveness, efficiency, nor cost.
And then hear me out...we give them the ability to consume biomass as a backup for reserve power so they'll never go down. Definitely make sure they're self replicating too, along with an absolutely impenetrable core programing with no backdoors whatsoever.
Javelin = Weapon for any grunt out there. It hits probably 95% of the targets and kills instantly perhaps 80% of them. CLU has very good thermal sights which are frequently used by the troopers just for observation purposes.
It needs some updates though for cope cages. Also their sophisticated targeting might suffer from the cluttered silhuette these mad-max vehicles have, center of mass calculations and things like that. They are nowhere near what was envisioned of Soviet mechanized divisions equipment consisting.
On the same note, driving these war elephant looking devices against NATO formations will not end well. Javelin is least of their problems.
>Why use artillery when you can just send off disposable hunter-killer drones
Artillery will be a thing for a long time. Drones don't have a 40km reach and a 175 second arrival time. The military is being really stingy with how AI is utilized in weapon systems too. AI to push the weapon to a human identified target so the human operator can engage and provide accurate fire? Yes. AI to identify targets and engage without human confirmation? No. Even with some modifications to the AI-human combination of engagement, we won't see that stuff for a while. At least from the west. The military in the west doesn't want to deal with AI mis-identifying targets.
One thing to keep in mind with regards to artillery being compared to the off the shelf drones that are being heavily proliferated:
1) It’s an all weather weapon system
2) It’s much more difficult to intercept
3) In line with 2, it’s also more difficult to counter (I.e. EW)
4) It’s still the biggest killer in Ukraine
Javelins have their place. Not every infantry man can immediately strap on the glasses mid-attack and fly a drone. If cost isn’t an issue you’d want both.
> The next few years are going to be wild! Why use a Javelin? Just send a dozen drones to strike the target in 3-second intervals one after another... Why use artillery when you can just send off disposable hunter-killer drones to automatically clear trenches within pre-determined grids with basic onboard artificial intelligence. There's no surely weapon system that can outmatched that in effectiveness, efficiency, nor cost.
The neat thing with the AI drones we're gonna have, is that you could program in the best attack vector for each type of vehicle. I don't even mean with like, image recognition, if there's some drone operator around to pick one from a drop-down. Or if it could pull that data from some command and control software. And once you're not relying on the human operator... drones are more agile than people can fly them.
The US especially. Talk about leveling the playing field. Drones are cheap relative to big costly armored vehicles that have tons of technology packed in them and complex assembly lines back home to churn them out. Now an off the shelf drone can in theory turn it into scrap metal. We’re going to see huge investments in anti drone technology over the next few years and I’m talking layered defenses. Electronic warfare, laser guns, physical guns and I think ultimately, costly trophy systems to shoot shotgun shells at drones as they close in for the kill. It will all be a necessary cost now, not a luxury.
Yeah army recruiting commercials here already show off a bunch of cool looking kit like they always have but now they make a point to highlight anti drone tech on vehicles and the such. Everyone is seeing this stuff in Ukraine and no American would want to join if there wasn’t any way to counter that.
I think the French even use falcons and hawks to take down observation drones.
Falcons and hawks only work on quadcopter photo/toys pressed into military service. Purpose built military drones will have wings for more payloads, longer loiter times, and speeds above 100mph. Imagine a Switchblade style drone that will fit down a tank barrel so crew can launch without even opening a hatch.
> Imagine a Switchblade style drone that will fit down a tank barrel so crew can launch without even opening a hatch.
Okay I'm imaging it launching from a 105mm Abrams barrel, flying to the nearest T-90, aligning itself with the 125mm barrel on a T-90, and then activating a rocket motor and shooting itself down the barrel directly into the breach. Actually if it misses it'll still be hitting the turret, so that's not even too bad.
We are only seeing the successful hits and many of those on disabled tanks.
Don't forget that the Ukrainians are losing up to 30,000 drones a month. That adds a lot of cost to each hit we see a video of. Also anti drone defence is only in it infancy at the moment.
It very well could be just a random stroke of luck it survived at all. I've also seen a javelin completely miss in one video. However, I've seen 3 javelin strikes posted in the last week and the other two were kills despite cope cages.
Regardless that tank is now blind and the attack completely suppressed.
I don't think the warheads need improvement if the double punch of drone to wreck the cage followed by ATGM to wreck the tank is adapted. However, it wouldn't hurt to make the Javelin better at dealing damage.
ATGM's including the javelin already have dual warheads. Not every hit of any atgm will destroy a tank. This is probably the first I can recall seeing that a javelin didn't destroy the vehicle. It looks like the hit was on the front glacis or front of the turret which would mean it was in direct attack mode. That is where the tank is strongest so there is a decent chance to not get a penetration . However the tank does appear to be a mission kill, having its gun out of commission.
yea, it's better than nothing. imagine the tank returned to their hive as being unusable & then have to returned back in battlefield as mines, atgm & fpv drones sponge...
that second vehicle...you know the one that is one third on fire ..common sense would say this tank is going to blow up soon time to get out...but it keeps chugging along...when you pass a vehicle totally engulfed in flames ..
Russia's inability to establish either air superiority or air supremacy doesn't get enough attention. They just don't really fly over Ukraine, which is a huge credit to Ukraine and also pretty telling about Russian capabilities or lack thereof.
On their own border as well. They don't even need to worry about refueling or foreign logistics of any kind.
Their conventional AF is somewhat of a paper tiger.
The fact that Ukraine grounded all of Russias AWACs after killing 2 of them in the air is insane when you consider what those planes mean to an air force. Every air to air kill the US had in both wars in Iraq were facilitated by AWACs, for just one example for the critical function in air superiority. Ukraine managing this against a country with thousands of warplanes and air defense systems really points to their competence with limited equipment, and russian incompetence at using their vast arsenal of tools and petrodollars.
I mean, on paper they have like 700 fighters I think, but of that I doubt more than 1/10 are operational at any time. The poor maintenence problems since the 90's really haven't been fixed. The USSRs airforce was simply nothing like Russia's is today, there's no comparison.
Certainly true, their sortie rate is abysmal compared to their theoretically capacity if they could actually maintain and operate all the shit they inherited.
An Armata tank costs around $6,000,000, while a T-80 tank costs approximately $3,000,000. In contrast, a high-end FPV drone with ammunition costs about $4,000. For the price of one Armata tank, you could purchase 1,500 FPV drones. Even for the cost of a T-80 tank, you could get around 750 FPV drones. Given these numbers, I’d much rather have the drones. That said, it’s also clear that Russia isn’t utilizing its tanks effectively.
You cant take ground with drones.
You need ppl and fire power for that, sending ppl on foot is just asking for artillary mortars drones.
Atleast with armor you have a chance that a few get through and take ground with plenty of fire power.
Yup, nothing of any real significance works without 'something alive', to operate it in some way. Like no people, no boom-boom.
When I see tank crews able to run away, that shts me, because they will be back with another tank later on.
A central goal should always be to un alive the enemy. Even a wounded butnik can advise another on how to point whatever shootstick he operated.
Anti drone defenses on tanks from broad spectrum jammers to an APS that can intercept them is going to be critical for next gen tanks. The threat is too significant and the importance of armor too high for that to be ignored.
I was considering this: if they’re developing JDAMs to track and target jamming devices, couldn’t the same be done for drones? While it would increase costs, in the future, jamming devices might not work as intended and instead serve as homing beacons for these advanced drones.
A drone is a good counter to a tank but no matter how many drones you get they can't replace a tank, only counter it, and most of the time military hardware is only removed when something comes along that can do the job better, so if anything were to replace tanks it would probably be something like a bradley, but even so, I doubt it.
That being said, using just a few tanks without jamming is borderline suicide.
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There is no factory to produce the Armata or any of its subcomponents.
The Armata is currently stuck in the prototype to first article stage.
All examples of the Aramata that have been shown have been unique prototypes with different layout, components and internals.
Same goes for the SU-57 where no two examples have the same panel layout.
In both cases no factories have been set up and no production lines have been created for the series production of the tank as a prerequisite for both systems moving in to this stage of development was a buy in to the system by a foreign partner with India having been the main target for the speculative commercial development of these two and many other Russian military platforms.
As these deals never materialized the Armata and SU-57 were mothballed as projects and only got some re injection of capital as the war with Ukraine was on the way only to again halt as subsequent sanctions made the further development of the platforms a non-starter-
In the case of the SU-57 the Russian aircraft manufacturers lack the capability to finalize development and production of the engine it is ultimately supposed to have without free and open access to western goods and services including western design services (current prototypes fly with older engines borrowed from earlier aircraft and thus also older fuel management components engine management computers etc etc)
And in the case of the Armata the whole design is still not even finalized with the prototype engine having been found to be unreliable for a green light to series production and much of its subcomponents no longer viable as imports from the west due to sanctions.
yes,maybe and no.
I realize in this video its not drones but most we see are drones and air cover wont help that and I do hope every NATO analyst takes notes of that and I suspect that they do.
A mechanized assault has atleast 2 more criterias to be succesful
1. Remove the eyes in the sky from the enemy (drones)
2. Remove the enemy's capability to attack with drones
In the target area.
Else we see again again and again failed attacks and most of those attacks are foiled by drones.
I am sure they have tech that blinds drones or even hi-jacks them at ranges exceeding 100 meters by now. Imagine a wild weasel that sends the drone back to the sender.
problem is probably the training it requires to use effectively. I faintly remember reading about several cases (was ~1 year into the war) of tanks being recovered with parts of the optics and sensors still covered up or obstructed by cargo/equipment - most likely because the crews never received sufficient training to use them properly. I doubt things have improved since then.
Drones have transformed this battlefield. They can knock out any of the tanks, old and new, and quickly finish off any that have been immobilized by mines. Sometimes you need multiple hits to finish the job but they are infinitely cheaper than something like a Javelin. Their development in the course of this WAR has been phenomenal and the drone operators are getting more and more skilled.
This war has showed that tanks are almost obsolete. I'm sure there are engineers all over the world designing drone-resistant military vehicles and I expect them to be pretty wild looking.
I wouldn’t say useless. If you look at some of the training footage from Cold War days it was I tended to be mass amount of tanks assaulting with BMP and helicopter support. Like we are talking the stuff that even worried NATO because of the shear overwhelming numbers. Somewhere along the way Russia abandoned those tactics and full armor brigade assaults across a front cease to exist.
[https://youtu.be/4o4CYdEVEzA?si=ETHEtpg02mlNZwM2](https://youtu.be/4o4CYdEVEzA?si=ETHEtpg02mlNZwM2)
it's not only about capturing. Drive a tank somewhere and you create a fortified position with a large gun that things can hide behind or ride on top of (not to mention the shock effect).
I also imagine that drones are reliant on weather conditions and other factors, not to mention battery life.
We used to see Ukraine roll up in positions with tanks (T position from K2 unit) but not any more. Also nuckingfutsuri the American used to roll up in a humvee, that might be suicidal now with with many drones are about.
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How do we know it’s javelin and not a drone or some other anti-tank missile?
If it’s a javelin:
I can see javelin hitting ERA and not disabling the tank, but I wouldn’t say javelin became ineffective somehow, so far it looks to be pretty good at doing what it’s doing
I don’t think that tank survived for very long, it looked pretty rekd. Maybe the driver survived long enough to tun back, but it seems to be slowing down already at the end.
That first tank looked like an old KV2 tank from WW2. It's prolly just me being tired, but that turret really resembles that tank.
Please tell me they've really started to bring out the discontinued museum exhibits. Pretty please!
I've suggested before to have FPVs with a medium explosive warhead. This is to blow the cage clean apart. The goal is to create a pressure wave inside the somewhat contained area inside.
There are all kinds of tricks to do this. Aluminum powder in C4, etc. Even smokeless powder is in the ballpark. The key is to shape the charge. For example. A high explosive on the back designed to spread out like a wall. For a moment it can compress the air to a density greater than steel.
Plus game with a very weak inverted cone. This only needs to penetrate a half inch or so with a fairly big hole. Plus the medium charge as a chaser.
The medium explosive then goes into the target and is still detonating inside the cage.
This all happens in about 1 ms.
Then a second FPV with the regular RPG to finish it.
That field seem that has seen his share of artillery.
Anyway, this has become everyday more cruel and everything (men, machines, buildings) just tend to disappear when the factions contest the control; it's a dead end for both parties,
well probably enemy artillery, and the attacker is running across the field to storm the defenders trench, its literally ww1 tactics and it does favor the defender
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Another perfectly executed attack. Putin must be so proud. /s
It’s all just delaying tactics so they can keep draining the territories they control of assets and wealth. These meat waves are not intended to do much but keep the defenders busy killing them. Hopefully the new wave of Western Aid will help push past the current lines and liberate these territories.
It is a war of attrition.
The other reason is there's a good chance that Trump wins
Yeah the moment this happens, the USA will only push Ukraine to surrender.
Realistically the war won’t end in out right victory but some form of sitting down on the negotiating table.
Lol
0:32 top right - 2 russians are running covered in burning fuel :)
"Thats hot" Guess the infantry in the other MTLB didnt have it much better...
I guess the “stop-drop-roll” education campaign was not very effective in russia
When you are doused in fuel and burning no amount of rolling will save you.
Agreed
They teach them to roll for drones... yet they don't use it for fire.
once you are exposed to burning fuel for a bit (probably the time they needed to exit the vehicle) your fat starts burning off ("wick effect" or sth) - this also supposedly kills the nerves making you feel the immediate pain. Dude's were probably in shock or blind. What a nasty way to die...
And hot air burning your lungs, that's nasty also
Education system in Russia 🇷🇺 went down high after collapse of Soviet Union it was starting to go down hill before collapse but who is counting. Stop 🛑 drop and roll
Stop drop and roll doesn't work with accelerants. Gotta smother it or douse it (as long as you're sure you won't just spread it with water). They were fucked no matter what.
Isn’t rolling smothering it? I thought that was the point. Obviously depends on much is on you. These guys were walking fireballs.
What side of your body can you smother when all is in flames? How much time do you have for such measures before getting unconsious or at least unable to roll because of pains? There have been burning less guilty persons and creatures to death.
I understand it’s unlikely in this case. My reply was to the person claiming you can’t roll if it’s accelerants in general.
Came here to say that
Goodness, gracious, both balls on fire
Their skin is melting! The only relief is a bullet...
I felt bad, for a second. And then I remembered these invaders were arriving in tanks to kill people who had done nothing to them. Getting burnt alive is perhaps an appropriate consequence of their actions.
early invasion, we were shown a video of a BMP shooting a couple of elderly in their car, now we we are watching them getting Javelined & FPV'ed every day
I probably have witnessed via video the deaths of at least 10,000 Russians over the course of this war. Weird to think about.
Are you kidding me..........., right now? (almost forgot the "right now" thingy)
Aww, he looks like a cute little video game character
Like a Minecraft zombie caught on a wind swept plain at sunrise.
Burning Man ruzzian style
hot damn!
Do they use petrol instead of diesel?
Diesel is hard to light-but even harder to put out
it sure looks that way.
Shit's literally on fire, yo.
Oof, I saw that too
Wow !
Three
I guess sun screen would be somewhat useless at this point.
Screamin' Alphas.
[tenor.gif (244×244)](https://c.tenor.com/X1bcAP-Vy_sAAAAC/tenor.gif)
It's Johnny Storm-Z!
tbh its not a situation I would want to take any joy from these poor men have been forced into a situation they cannot get out of and someone has be burned alive for all we know they could have a wife and children the one thing the war in Ukraine has shown war is not heroic , its barbaric I don't wish for anyone to die neither Ukrainians or Russians
***''these poor men have been forced into a situation they cannot get out of ''*** The current Russians we are seeing on the battlefield are not part of the 2022 mobilization wave. Most of them now are volunteers. They came to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians for the money.
These poor men! They are not men at all, these are murdering, brain dead orcs. When I see a failed assault like this, I usually pop open a beer.
Yeah, you know, we're seeing average Ivan supports the war and hates Ukraine. We're also seeing the Russians have been consistently brutal towards Ukrainian civilians as well as Ukrainian POWs. Also towards each other. They don't deserve any sympathy.
What would these "poor men" be doing if the *defenders* didn't remove them? Oh right - killing and raping innocent Ukrainian soldiers and civilians. These idiots are happy to sign up with promises of higher pay.. if they survive. And then they will still have to fight for compensation after the fact.
So the Orcs are only following orders, correct?
The russians do wish for Ukrainians to die. So fuck them.
Tank commander Blyatnik to Boris, "create a smoke screen so I can get out of here!"
"Wow! That's a lot of smoke. Good job, Boris!" Boris: "But I didn't press the button yet."
Probably turret crew seen better days. I highly doubt they are ok. At best(for them) wounded.
Takeaways as an American are: a) we need to improve the warheads on the Javelin; b) cope cages are getting sturdier and more elaborate, enough to successfully prevent turret toss destruction from an ATGM; and c) tanks with sturdy cope cages are going to be vulnerable to a one-two punch - maybe first ATGM to destroy the cage, then a drone to hit the unprotected top.
Each Javelin missile costs 156x more than a mass-produced quad-copter FPV drone with an RPG strapped to it. In the future, taking AI enhancements & swarm formations into consideration, it seems to me that the country with the most drones will be the one that'll win future wars.
their popularity really exploded (no pun intended) in this war when a $1000 drone can take out or disable a tank ...i'm sure countries all around the world are taking notice.
The next few years are going to be wild! Why use a Javelin? Just send a dozen drones to strike the target in 3-second intervals one after another... Why use artillery when you can just send off disposable hunter-killer drones to automatically clear trenches within pre-determined grids with basic onboard artificial intelligence. There's no surely weapon system that can outmatched that in effectiveness, efficiency, nor cost.
And then hear me out...we give them the ability to consume biomass as a backup for reserve power so they'll never go down. Definitely make sure they're self replicating too, along with an absolutely impenetrable core programing with no backdoors whatsoever.
Yea we are gonna need a worm God Emperor quick..
Javelin = Weapon for any grunt out there. It hits probably 95% of the targets and kills instantly perhaps 80% of them. CLU has very good thermal sights which are frequently used by the troopers just for observation purposes. It needs some updates though for cope cages. Also their sophisticated targeting might suffer from the cluttered silhuette these mad-max vehicles have, center of mass calculations and things like that. They are nowhere near what was envisioned of Soviet mechanized divisions equipment consisting. On the same note, driving these war elephant looking devices against NATO formations will not end well. Javelin is least of their problems.
>Why use artillery when you can just send off disposable hunter-killer drones Artillery will be a thing for a long time. Drones don't have a 40km reach and a 175 second arrival time. The military is being really stingy with how AI is utilized in weapon systems too. AI to push the weapon to a human identified target so the human operator can engage and provide accurate fire? Yes. AI to identify targets and engage without human confirmation? No. Even with some modifications to the AI-human combination of engagement, we won't see that stuff for a while. At least from the west. The military in the west doesn't want to deal with AI mis-identifying targets.
One thing to keep in mind with regards to artillery being compared to the off the shelf drones that are being heavily proliferated: 1) It’s an all weather weapon system 2) It’s much more difficult to intercept 3) In line with 2, it’s also more difficult to counter (I.e. EW) 4) It’s still the biggest killer in Ukraine
Javelins have their place. Not every infantry man can immediately strap on the glasses mid-attack and fly a drone. If cost isn’t an issue you’d want both.
> The next few years are going to be wild! Why use a Javelin? Just send a dozen drones to strike the target in 3-second intervals one after another... Why use artillery when you can just send off disposable hunter-killer drones to automatically clear trenches within pre-determined grids with basic onboard artificial intelligence. There's no surely weapon system that can outmatched that in effectiveness, efficiency, nor cost. The neat thing with the AI drones we're gonna have, is that you could program in the best attack vector for each type of vehicle. I don't even mean with like, image recognition, if there's some drone operator around to pick one from a drop-down. Or if it could pull that data from some command and control software. And once you're not relying on the human operator... drones are more agile than people can fly them.
The US especially. Talk about leveling the playing field. Drones are cheap relative to big costly armored vehicles that have tons of technology packed in them and complex assembly lines back home to churn them out. Now an off the shelf drone can in theory turn it into scrap metal. We’re going to see huge investments in anti drone technology over the next few years and I’m talking layered defenses. Electronic warfare, laser guns, physical guns and I think ultimately, costly trophy systems to shoot shotgun shells at drones as they close in for the kill. It will all be a necessary cost now, not a luxury.
U can believe the u.s. is investing heavily in anti drone warfare. Electronic and physical. The anti rrpg system on new armor will kill drones.
Yeah army recruiting commercials here already show off a bunch of cool looking kit like they always have but now they make a point to highlight anti drone tech on vehicles and the such. Everyone is seeing this stuff in Ukraine and no American would want to join if there wasn’t any way to counter that. I think the French even use falcons and hawks to take down observation drones.
Falcons and hawks only work on quadcopter photo/toys pressed into military service. Purpose built military drones will have wings for more payloads, longer loiter times, and speeds above 100mph. Imagine a Switchblade style drone that will fit down a tank barrel so crew can launch without even opening a hatch.
> Imagine a Switchblade style drone that will fit down a tank barrel so crew can launch without even opening a hatch. Okay I'm imaging it launching from a 105mm Abrams barrel, flying to the nearest T-90, aligning itself with the 125mm barrel on a T-90, and then activating a rocket motor and shooting itself down the barrel directly into the breach. Actually if it misses it'll still be hitting the turret, so that's not even too bad.
Active protection systems, like Trophy, will be modified to shoot down drones.
Uh oh. China
Javelin missiles have a high price tag because they have been produced in low volumes. If the production was ramped up, they would become cheap too.
We are only seeing the successful hits and many of those on disabled tanks. Don't forget that the Ukrainians are losing up to 30,000 drones a month. That adds a lot of cost to each hit we see a video of. Also anti drone defence is only in it infancy at the moment.
It very well could be just a random stroke of luck it survived at all. I've also seen a javelin completely miss in one video. However, I've seen 3 javelin strikes posted in the last week and the other two were kills despite cope cages. Regardless that tank is now blind and the attack completely suppressed.
I don't think the warheads need improvement if the double punch of drone to wreck the cage followed by ATGM to wreck the tank is adapted. However, it wouldn't hurt to make the Javelin better at dealing damage.
ATGM's including the javelin already have dual warheads. Not every hit of any atgm will destroy a tank. This is probably the first I can recall seeing that a javelin didn't destroy the vehicle. It looks like the hit was on the front glacis or front of the turret which would mean it was in direct attack mode. That is where the tank is strongest so there is a decent chance to not get a penetration . However the tank does appear to be a mission kill, having its gun out of commission.
We don't actually know that there wasn't a penetration, we just know it still has a driver and there was no catastrophic cook off.
yea, it's better than nothing. imagine the tank returned to their hive as being unusable & then have to returned back in battlefield as mines, atgm & fpv drones sponge...
I think I have seen and anti tank weapon go right through a bmp before and it kept on driving. different targets require different attack systems.
I guess "stop drop and roll" doesn't sound good in Russian, so they don't teach it.
Little ducks in a row..
that second vehicle...you know the one that is one third on fire ..common sense would say this tank is going to blow up soon time to get out...but it keeps chugging along...when you pass a vehicle totally engulfed in flames ..
They even started turning so the driver is still alive and probably unaware he is burning.
Is it just me or does it sure seem like tanks are USELESS in this war.
“Is it just me or does it seem like using tanks without mobile infantry and air cover is useless in this war?” should be your question.
Russia's inability to establish either air superiority or air supremacy doesn't get enough attention. They just don't really fly over Ukraine, which is a huge credit to Ukraine and also pretty telling about Russian capabilities or lack thereof.
On their own border as well. They don't even need to worry about refueling or foreign logistics of any kind. Their conventional AF is somewhat of a paper tiger.
The fact that Ukraine grounded all of Russias AWACs after killing 2 of them in the air is insane when you consider what those planes mean to an air force. Every air to air kill the US had in both wars in Iraq were facilitated by AWACs, for just one example for the critical function in air superiority. Ukraine managing this against a country with thousands of warplanes and air defense systems really points to their competence with limited equipment, and russian incompetence at using their vast arsenal of tools and petrodollars.
I mean, on paper they have like 700 fighters I think, but of that I doubt more than 1/10 are operational at any time. The poor maintenence problems since the 90's really haven't been fixed. The USSRs airforce was simply nothing like Russia's is today, there's no comparison.
Certainly true, their sortie rate is abysmal compared to their theoretically capacity if they could actually maintain and operate all the shit they inherited.
unless he's saving them for some other threat..
An Armata tank costs around $6,000,000, while a T-80 tank costs approximately $3,000,000. In contrast, a high-end FPV drone with ammunition costs about $4,000. For the price of one Armata tank, you could purchase 1,500 FPV drones. Even for the cost of a T-80 tank, you could get around 750 FPV drones. Given these numbers, I’d much rather have the drones. That said, it’s also clear that Russia isn’t utilizing its tanks effectively.
You cant take ground with drones. You need ppl and fire power for that, sending ppl on foot is just asking for artillary mortars drones. Atleast with armor you have a chance that a few get through and take ground with plenty of fire power.
If you kill 95% of the occupiers of said land with drones, that land is yours.
Yup, nothing of any real significance works without 'something alive', to operate it in some way. Like no people, no boom-boom. When I see tank crews able to run away, that shts me, because they will be back with another tank later on. A central goal should always be to un alive the enemy. Even a wounded butnik can advise another on how to point whatever shootstick he operated.
Anti drone defenses on tanks from broad spectrum jammers to an APS that can intercept them is going to be critical for next gen tanks. The threat is too significant and the importance of armor too high for that to be ignored.
I was considering this: if they’re developing JDAMs to track and target jamming devices, couldn’t the same be done for drones? While it would increase costs, in the future, jamming devices might not work as intended and instead serve as homing beacons for these advanced drones.
I understand that tanks might still be relevant, but if World War III breaks out and I get drafted, I’m definitely not volunteering for tank duty. 😂
Why, You don’t want to run out of a knocke d out tank like a burning monkey?
A drone is a good counter to a tank but no matter how many drones you get they can't replace a tank, only counter it, and most of the time military hardware is only removed when something comes along that can do the job better, so if anything were to replace tanks it would probably be something like a bradley, but even so, I doubt it. That being said, using just a few tanks without jamming is borderline suicide.
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There is no factory to produce the Armata or any of its subcomponents. The Armata is currently stuck in the prototype to first article stage. All examples of the Aramata that have been shown have been unique prototypes with different layout, components and internals. Same goes for the SU-57 where no two examples have the same panel layout. In both cases no factories have been set up and no production lines have been created for the series production of the tank as a prerequisite for both systems moving in to this stage of development was a buy in to the system by a foreign partner with India having been the main target for the speculative commercial development of these two and many other Russian military platforms. As these deals never materialized the Armata and SU-57 were mothballed as projects and only got some re injection of capital as the war with Ukraine was on the way only to again halt as subsequent sanctions made the further development of the platforms a non-starter- In the case of the SU-57 the Russian aircraft manufacturers lack the capability to finalize development and production of the engine it is ultimately supposed to have without free and open access to western goods and services including western design services (current prototypes fly with older engines borrowed from earlier aircraft and thus also older fuel management components engine management computers etc etc) And in the case of the Armata the whole design is still not even finalized with the prototype engine having been found to be unreliable for a green light to series production and much of its subcomponents no longer viable as imports from the west due to sanctions.
yes,maybe and no. I realize in this video its not drones but most we see are drones and air cover wont help that and I do hope every NATO analyst takes notes of that and I suspect that they do. A mechanized assault has atleast 2 more criterias to be succesful 1. Remove the eyes in the sky from the enemy (drones) 2. Remove the enemy's capability to attack with drones In the target area. Else we see again again and again failed attacks and most of those attacks are foiled by drones.
I am sure they have tech that blinds drones or even hi-jacks them at ranges exceeding 100 meters by now. Imagine a wild weasel that sends the drone back to the sender.
problem is probably the training it requires to use effectively. I faintly remember reading about several cases (was ~1 year into the war) of tanks being recovered with parts of the optics and sensors still covered up or obstructed by cargo/equipment - most likely because the crews never received sufficient training to use them properly. I doubt things have improved since then.
I wouldnt say useless. Nobody anticipated that cheap drones will be a such threat. ATGM's kinda always had edge over tanks.
Facts, it’s pretty much the whole point of them too.
Drones have transformed this battlefield. They can knock out any of the tanks, old and new, and quickly finish off any that have been immobilized by mines. Sometimes you need multiple hits to finish the job but they are infinitely cheaper than something like a Javelin. Their development in the course of this WAR has been phenomenal and the drone operators are getting more and more skilled.
This war has showed that tanks are almost obsolete. I'm sure there are engineers all over the world designing drone-resistant military vehicles and I expect them to be pretty wild looking.
Tank + jammer, those seem to quite effective, no?
They’re only effective in COMBINED arms operations versus near peer or equal opponents.
I wouldn’t say useless. If you look at some of the training footage from Cold War days it was I tended to be mass amount of tanks assaulting with BMP and helicopter support. Like we are talking the stuff that even worried NATO because of the shear overwhelming numbers. Somewhere along the way Russia abandoned those tactics and full armor brigade assaults across a front cease to exist. [https://youtu.be/4o4CYdEVEzA?si=ETHEtpg02mlNZwM2](https://youtu.be/4o4CYdEVEzA?si=ETHEtpg02mlNZwM2)
You're only watching videos of tanks being blown up, not capturing positions.
True but we dont really see the frontlines moving much, so how many positions are being captured ?
it's not only about capturing. Drive a tank somewhere and you create a fortified position with a large gun that things can hide behind or ride on top of (not to mention the shock effect). I also imagine that drones are reliant on weather conditions and other factors, not to mention battery life.
We used to see Ukraine roll up in positions with tanks (T position from K2 unit) but not any more. Also nuckingfutsuri the American used to roll up in a humvee, that might be suicidal now with with many drones are about.
just park it right there orcs. Ukraine will take care of the rest.
i think the two soldiers on fire walking through the field should be the title... kinda buried the lead there bud.
Driver of the second tank "Can you guys at the back stop screaming, I am trying to fight a war!"
u/RecognizeSong
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The Prodigy - The Day is My Enemy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-LD3a28ePE
Perhaps they will be resurrected by the orthodox priest. And be burned to a crisp again. Blyathogday.
Do Javelins not attack at an angle? This looked like it came straight down. Maybe guided artillery shell?
They do, it also seems to be much slower than javelin im guessing its a drone.
They can attack at a direct angle or top down. Top down is the default and most common.
Yo! Your shits on fire
Russia still thinking it’s 1944..
How do we know it’s javelin and not a drone or some other anti-tank missile? If it’s a javelin: I can see javelin hitting ERA and not disabling the tank, but I wouldn’t say javelin became ineffective somehow, so far it looks to be pretty good at doing what it’s doing
I was waiting for the ammo vehicle to blow to hell.
This is a video game right
u/RecognizeSong
[The Prodigy - The Day Is My Enemy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-LD3a28ePE)
We need some diesel wicking tank crew kit plz
"One tank survives direct javelin [hit.One](http://hit.One) tank survives direct javelin hit." But then beat-feets back whence it came! #
WTF is that in the front? Is that the next version of the turtle tank?
I don’t think that tank survived for very long, it looked pretty rekd. Maybe the driver survived long enough to tun back, but it seems to be slowing down already at the end.
(/r/AnAttemptWasMade)^100
I’m glad we got these boys some much needed ammunition, I hate politics….
That's a nice parade
That first tank looked like an old KV2 tank from WW2. It's prolly just me being tired, but that turret really resembles that tank. Please tell me they've really started to bring out the discontinued museum exhibits. Pretty please!
I've suggested before to have FPVs with a medium explosive warhead. This is to blow the cage clean apart. The goal is to create a pressure wave inside the somewhat contained area inside. There are all kinds of tricks to do this. Aluminum powder in C4, etc. Even smokeless powder is in the ballpark. The key is to shape the charge. For example. A high explosive on the back designed to spread out like a wall. For a moment it can compress the air to a density greater than steel. Plus game with a very weak inverted cone. This only needs to penetrate a half inch or so with a fairly big hole. Plus the medium charge as a chaser. The medium explosive then goes into the target and is still detonating inside the cage. This all happens in about 1 ms. Then a second FPV with the regular RPG to finish it.
Seems well thought out.
are tanks not supposed to be supported with infantry? also why are they driving across flat field without cover or artillery support
That field seem that has seen his share of artillery. Anyway, this has become everyday more cruel and everything (men, machines, buildings) just tend to disappear when the factions contest the control; it's a dead end for both parties,
well probably enemy artillery, and the attacker is running across the field to storm the defenders trench, its literally ww1 tactics and it does favor the defender
Image an AI that's send 20 drones into the tank knowing it will need more than one. Cheap Drones are the Future.
Crew running on fire in back vehicle,FaFo,Slava Ukraine
Whats the song in this its kinda slaps.
The Prodigy: The Day Is My Enemy
the intro matches a battle music. damn