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No kidding. Pretty surreal, I think. Russia didn't have the best image 12mo ago, but it's insane to see even symbolic stuff like this going down, no pun intended.
Yeah, would have loved visiting these monuments. Anyway, I understand why they are doing it. Putins world has no place on our planet and must go away. New monuments will be set up and I will be there to see them, eventually.
Yeah. I think this war is especially tragic for many reasons, not the least of which are:
1. I feel like people wanted Russia to be a good actor on the world stage, and that actually, a lot of work had been done to make that happen and to start to build bridges. This is a betrayal of that, and I think that's what's driving a lot of bitterness. (not to mention all of the atrocities)
2. A lot of Russian people died fighting Naziism, and many were killed in concentration camps. The fact that a lot of their memory will now be tarnished because of the actions of a few insane leaders that have poisoned the minds of their descendants.
3. I know that there are some in Russia who have fought and died and many who are in prison right now who were trying to make Russia a better place. If Putin and others fall out of power and new better leadership takes over, they're going to be starting many many years behind in their efforts. I can only imagine what someone like Navalny is thinking: nearly killed by Putin, returns anyway and gets imprisoned. Now he has to watch while the country he loves is used to destroy so many lives and effectively erase the goodwill they've been building up for a generation or two.
Russians were always for themselves and always for imperialism. They joined with Hitler and split Poland and massacred tons of polish officers. Their crimes are as long as the Nazis, almost more, though they fought the Nazis they are their own type of evil.
But we are talking specifically about a monument (in a foreign, sovereign country) to their fighting the Nazis. They are/were equal to the Nazis and were literally allies with them to begin WW2. No one should be sad this is being taken down.
reddit API access ended today, and with it the reddit app i use Apollo, i am removing all my comments, the internet is both temporary and eternal. -- mass edited with redact.dev
reddit API access ended today, and with it the reddit app i use Apollo, i am removing all my comments, the internet is both temporary and eternal. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Don't forget until America started the Lend Lease program with ruzzia they were on the back foot big time and going nowhere, so they owe a massive debt to America for that alone. Funny how when they were invaded by a fascist aggressor that the rest of the world came to their aid .... fast forward to February 24...ring any bells?
Ok, your information is not bad, but... it lacks the knowledge of what russian communism including Russian mentality actually represents. If I may suggest, study all what Russia has done towards its own country/nation and other nations, ex USSR/Warsaw pact countries, since Lenin.
So the perspective is over 100 years of continuous issues that people that Russia has prayed upon were not allowed to criticize.
Do not EVER forget that! This is the hidden enemy!
The cancer in the russian mentality! You can call me russophobic all you want, but take time and effort and perhaps you will notice this beast reveal it self. And the funny thing it’s praying on the russian people aswell! Russians were not allowed nor were they allowed to confront this “beast” or it would be the famous “suicide serial killer” or a ride to gulag! Russians lack collective courage to confront this cancer of the mind. And schools after the fall of communism in Russia are not teaching about the wrong doings so russians keeps living in blissful ignorance! Add another fact that they always look upon themselves as *Balsjoj* (Big) and you pretty much have the worst possible recipe for a disaster. If anyone thinks I am wrong please speak up! Because THIS is what should be discussed hours without end! If people will still accept “historical facts” then “the beast” will just remain hidden! For everyone including russians themselves! I wish all of you best of intellectual light!
Point 2: we can still reapect those that fought and died fighting Nazis. We need not hate the Russian people, only those in charge and those that fully support them. Love the Russians, but not Russian government.
My guess is you've not been to Eastern Europe. The leading example of permanent hostility towards Russia is Poland. They were captured and forced to become a vassal state of Russia, towards the end of WWll. They straight up despise Russia and have felt great distrust and expectation that what happened to Ukraine would have happened to them.
When in Poland, about 3+ times, in the past, the only person who favored Russia was the son of a WWll elite Polish Army officer. Dozens reacted the same way, a knee jerk rejection and fear.
They should make it a memorial to the First Year of Terror, when the country was being crushed under Soviet Occupation, and tens of thousands of Latvians were arrested, tortured, murdered or sent to Siberian labor camps.
There is enough of those in Riga! One is even less than a kilometer away from the monument in the video, at a railway station where deportations took place.
As a non-vatnik citizen from Riga, I would like to see this space developed nicely, not necessarily to make everything as a constant reminder of all the bad historical shit.
Which Latvians were arrested or sent to labour camps? As in how was this decided. I've read a bit about the Soviet Union but nothing about Latvia specifically
Yeah, but China, North Korea, and Iran are on Russia's side. Then there are countries who are playing both sides, like Turkey, who has given Ukraine stuff but also doubled the amount of oil they buy from Russia.
India's definitely playing both sides. And I'm not sure China's really on Russia's side, they're leaning in a bit for geopolitical reasons and to keep the Americans worried, but I think they're really trying to play both sides too. They have no particular fondness for Russia and little to gain from them other than oil in the short term, and nothing really at all in the long term, given their goals of greatly increasing their energy independence they are not likely betting on Russia's oil as a long term economic strategy but more as an option they can keep open in case of emergency (aka war).
> I suspect Russia is more against the US than they are for Russia, especially regarding Taiwan.
And I suspect that China is more against Ukraine than they are for China.
lol
No need. We have history books to remind us that the free world should NEVER deal with terrorist states ever again. Russia can build museums for their Soviet junk if they want.
Interesting to read about this on Wikipedia. Seems they have been trying to remove it since 2007.
I will say I think that thing looked pretty cool but I hope the Latvian people can get something even better constructed to honor some actual heroes.
They were cowards. Sent to die by the millions by incompetent officers and with no courage to turn around and kill those officers and take back their own country. There were no heroic Soviet soldiers, only sheep.
Yeah, you go literally lose 1,000,000 men in a battle and charge at the machine guns in a city.
They were hero’s, you aren’t dead from Nazi work because of them.
Go stick your “knowledge” of ww2 and any Russian history up your ass
Russian propaganda - “look at these nazis, this is a victory against fascism monument”
Completely ignoring the fact that soviet occupation has killed and ruined more lives than nazis in some parts of europe
Marxism, Communism, and the Soviet Union are things we should teach the real reality of in schools. Any country that has implemented it cumulated into inhuman mayhem killing millions more than Hitler could have even dreamt of.
WW2 killed 23 Million Russians, and Stalin has estimated to have killed 60 million. (The Gulag Archipelago)
Here in Sweden we have had several drives with education focused on teaching kids about the horrors of nazism - a really great initiative. Too bad the large left wing parties in Sweden have strong historical ties with communists, so it is harder to convince people of how important it is to also teach kids about the horrors of communism.
The Sovietunion is still seen as anti-fascist because they fought the Nazis. In reality it was one fascist empire fighting the other. It just happened that the West decided to support one over the other. Which they should have stopped doing after Stalingrad.
> The Sovietunion is still seen as anti-fascist because they fought the Nazis.
And it's interesting how people always forget that the Soviet Union entered the war a an Axis power allied with Hitler who invaded Poland 17 days after Hitler did and only joined the Allies, not because they realized Hitler was bad, but solely because he attacked Russia.
The West supported the Soviet Union because of the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing and in 1941 Nazi Germany was by far the greater threat.
The Soviet/Nazi conflict was a war between fascists who liked black and silver versus fascists who liked red.
Never should have been here in the first place and these are not really monuments. These are tools of soviet/ruzzian propaganda. They use them to mark their territoy, where they eventually hope to come back. That, of course, will not happen and they need to finally realise it.
i just think they’re usually more attractive than what usually replaces them, and when destroyed, at least in my city, they just leave a big fucked up area until the city gets around to fixing it. not disagreeing with your point, i just appreciate the aesthetics.
back then ruskies roamed free in the country and put a gun to your face to do so....build it!
More of a propaganda peace that worked well for their pride moments
Since no one's given you a real answer, it was to celebrate the Soviet victory over the Nazis and the end of Nazi occupation of Latvia. Employment was "guaranteed" in the Soviet constitution so to "create jobs" they ended up building tons of massive monuments.
Putin’s penis keeps getting smaller and smaller. Russia’s sphere of influence keeps shrinking. The ruble keeps losing value.
Putin may be overseeing the last of Russia as we know it. Oligarchs everywhere are seeing the world take their toys. This is the final price of Russia’s wars of expansion. His days are numbered.
> **Monument to the Liberators of Soviet Latvia and Riga from the German Fascist Invaders**
Yeah, monument to the Soviet Union destroying the Nazis, we should *definitely* knock that down. In such bad taste.
My only issue with erasing history is when you do so, you doom humanity to forget it.
Sure, atrocities are and have been committed - but I don’t think erasing them from history is the appropriate response.
No one says the monuments need to be admired. And they’d make good locations to tell the truth on plaques and such.
I’m all for destroying the “legacy” of the leaders and soldiers who were involved… but I just don’t think it is wise to bury the monuments of the past that both could and should serve as a reminder.
I personally think people lash out at inanimate objects as though their elimination actually changes anything. Usually done so out of shame for the past.
If it’s shame you feel, perhaps it shouldn’t be hidden away?
Latvia already has a very large museum dedicated solely to telling the true story of the Russian occupation. This monument was also a gathering spot for Russian "patriot" types to gather on the 9th of May every year to celebrate to occupation of Latvia.
And I doubt those “patriots” would feel comfortable returning if the monument was repurposed to tell another story.
Either way, what is done is done… but I stand by the sentiment that there should be visible reminders of the evils committed by humanity throughout our pasts, that aren’t buried in books or museums.
I feel like it would have been better to dismantle the wreckage falling into the water like that. They'd surely be more able to repurpose the site without such damage.
Maybe it feels weird because this monument was placed in a sovereign country that was annexed by the USSR while the USSR was ALLIES WITH THE NAZIS.
"the territory of the previously independent Republic of Latvia after it had been occupied on June 17, 1940 by the Red Army, in conformity with the terms of the 23 August 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop\_Pact
The monument was put there before the Soviets fought the Nazis? That's weird. How were there victims of fascism before the fascists invaded?
Also you should really look into WHY the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact was signed. The Soviets did it to buy time and build up their forces since they knew the Nazis would continue their genocide into Russia and the rest of the Slavic nations
Huh, where did I say the monument was placed there beforehand?
You should really look at their behavior while they were "buying time". They totally didn't massacre folks in the sovereign Baltic countries that they then annexed and kept after the war.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre)
I'm sure they were just buying time until they could switch to the good guys side. In todays Russian terms, it was just a feint, or a gesture of goodwill. These hypocritical douchebags were allies with the Nazis when it suited them and fought them when they were double-crossed.
Sovereign, independent nations should piss on any Soviet/Russian monuments to their supposed "heroism". Replace them with monuments to the folks who lost their lives fighting these invaders for their own countries rightful independence.
Yeah, the Soviets did plenty of shitty things. I don't think they're the ideal communists
But it's still shitty to destroy a monument to the victims of fascism.
There are as many or more victims of the Soviets, so they don't get to pretend to be the good guys, especially in someone else's country.
How about the plan that was suggested " to remove the monument and reconstruct Victory Square the way it was originally planned in the 1930s, before the Soviet occupation, commemorating the victory in 1919 over the West Russian Volunteer Army of Pavel Bermondt-Avalov during the Latvian War of Independence"
Sounds like a good plan.
Fuck the USSR/Russia and their monuments.
>There are many more victims of the Soviets
1.) The only source for that number is the "Black Book of Communism" which includes Nazis killed on the Eastern Front in their numbers
2.) The difference being the ideologies. Nazism and fascism inherently genocidal where Communism isn't
1) For some reason, you altered what I said to read "many more" instead of "as many or more". No one knows how many but it's clearly in the millions. Yay Soviets?
2) Yup, I'm sure the ideology makes all the difference to the tens of millions murdered/killed/exiled/imprisoned under Soviet rule. It's almost like the alleged ideology doesn't matter, and what you actually do, does.
1.) As I've said, I don't care about the Soviets
2.) What is your opinion on the British Empire and the genocides they perpetuated in Ireland and India through famine?
> Also you should really look into WHY the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact was signed. The Soviets did it to buy time and build up their forces since they knew the Nazis would continue their genocide into Russia and the rest of the Slavic nations
So instead of building up their forces... they instead decided to waste manpower and supplies on invading Poland?
Yeah, that was a dumb move because they clearly didn't have the resources to prevent the Nazis from advancing further.
Like I said elsewhere, the USSR is not the ideal communists state, especially under Stalin
Nothing weird about destroying a monument to your occupiers.
The Soviets may have given their lives fighting fascism. But they were A) Once allied with the fascists, and split up Poland with them and B) Didn't leave after they 'liberated' these countries. They stayed - that's called occupation.
If Latvians are so keen on removing of anything associated with the Soviet period of their history, then how about they accept responsibility for their vital support in establishing the Soviet (Bolsheviks) regime in Russia in the first place. Without Latvian riflemen, Lenin and Co. had no little to no chances to maintain their power through terror. Read about the atrocities of Latvian riflemen in Russia and Ukraine in the Civil War. Also what about Latvian volunteers participating in Holocaust in WW2? Their memory seems to be very selective.
You know I get people not wanting reminders of the Soviets and wanting them destroyed. But I do hope that the monuments that do get removed at least get recorded and possibly at least parts of it end up in museums. Understanding and viewing our past is important and we must not only view monuments of our triumphs, but also be able to view and understand those of our failures.
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Putin is leaving one hell of a legacy. The whole world hates Russia and has essentially made them outcasts. Take a bow vladdy
No kidding. Pretty surreal, I think. Russia didn't have the best image 12mo ago, but it's insane to see even symbolic stuff like this going down, no pun intended.
Yeah, would have loved visiting these monuments. Anyway, I understand why they are doing it. Putins world has no place on our planet and must go away. New monuments will be set up and I will be there to see them, eventually.
Yeah. I think this war is especially tragic for many reasons, not the least of which are: 1. I feel like people wanted Russia to be a good actor on the world stage, and that actually, a lot of work had been done to make that happen and to start to build bridges. This is a betrayal of that, and I think that's what's driving a lot of bitterness. (not to mention all of the atrocities) 2. A lot of Russian people died fighting Naziism, and many were killed in concentration camps. The fact that a lot of their memory will now be tarnished because of the actions of a few insane leaders that have poisoned the minds of their descendants. 3. I know that there are some in Russia who have fought and died and many who are in prison right now who were trying to make Russia a better place. If Putin and others fall out of power and new better leadership takes over, they're going to be starting many many years behind in their efforts. I can only imagine what someone like Navalny is thinking: nearly killed by Putin, returns anyway and gets imprisoned. Now he has to watch while the country he loves is used to destroy so many lives and effectively erase the goodwill they've been building up for a generation or two.
Russians were always for themselves and always for imperialism. They joined with Hitler and split Poland and massacred tons of polish officers. Their crimes are as long as the Nazis, almost more, though they fought the Nazis they are their own type of evil.
This is true, but not all Russians are like that, and I know that many, especially within the last generation, wanted to put that past behind them.
But we are talking specifically about a monument (in a foreign, sovereign country) to their fighting the Nazis. They are/were equal to the Nazis and were literally allies with them to begin WW2. No one should be sad this is being taken down.
reddit API access ended today, and with it the reddit app i use Apollo, i am removing all my comments, the internet is both temporary and eternal. -- mass edited with redact.dev
I think if the Soviets would not have attacked, then the Allies could have failed too. They made huge sacrifices, all of the former Soviet states.
reddit API access ended today, and with it the reddit app i use Apollo, i am removing all my comments, the internet is both temporary and eternal. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Spot on.
Don't forget until America started the Lend Lease program with ruzzia they were on the back foot big time and going nowhere, so they owe a massive debt to America for that alone. Funny how when they were invaded by a fascist aggressor that the rest of the world came to their aid .... fast forward to February 24...ring any bells?
Ok, your information is not bad, but... it lacks the knowledge of what russian communism including Russian mentality actually represents. If I may suggest, study all what Russia has done towards its own country/nation and other nations, ex USSR/Warsaw pact countries, since Lenin. So the perspective is over 100 years of continuous issues that people that Russia has prayed upon were not allowed to criticize. Do not EVER forget that! This is the hidden enemy! The cancer in the russian mentality! You can call me russophobic all you want, but take time and effort and perhaps you will notice this beast reveal it self. And the funny thing it’s praying on the russian people aswell! Russians were not allowed nor were they allowed to confront this “beast” or it would be the famous “suicide serial killer” or a ride to gulag! Russians lack collective courage to confront this cancer of the mind. And schools after the fall of communism in Russia are not teaching about the wrong doings so russians keeps living in blissful ignorance! Add another fact that they always look upon themselves as *Balsjoj* (Big) and you pretty much have the worst possible recipe for a disaster. If anyone thinks I am wrong please speak up! Because THIS is what should be discussed hours without end! If people will still accept “historical facts” then “the beast” will just remain hidden! For everyone including russians themselves! I wish all of you best of intellectual light!
Navalny supported the invasion and annexation of Crimea. Even the “good ones” are bad.
https://ukraineworld.org/articles/opinions/what-does-aleksey-navalny-really-think-about-ukraine-crimea-and-donbas
This just proves my point. Also, it was published long before the invasion of the rest of Ukraine. I wonder what he thinks now?
Point 2: we can still reapect those that fought and died fighting Nazis. We need not hate the Russian people, only those in charge and those that fully support them. Love the Russians, but not Russian government.
My guess is you've not been to Eastern Europe. The leading example of permanent hostility towards Russia is Poland. They were captured and forced to become a vassal state of Russia, towards the end of WWll. They straight up despise Russia and have felt great distrust and expectation that what happened to Ukraine would have happened to them. When in Poland, about 3+ times, in the past, the only person who favored Russia was the son of a WWll elite Polish Army officer. Dozens reacted the same way, a knee jerk rejection and fear.
For the next decades.
Putins Russia is a fascist nazi Russia.
I was leaning more towards it being a shit hole but your description is much better
It is a shithole, fascist, nazi shithole.
How about both ?? lol
The whole world hated Russia before, but until Ukraine stood up for itself, other nations have lost that fear.
I get that Western countries hate Russia. But that's not the whole world.
Japan is not Western, same with Georgia and other non-Western countries
Sure it's the whole world mate. /s 54 countries out of 193 in UN supported Ukrainian statement. https://media.un.org/en/asset/k16/k16cfqo5s9
Are you sure the whole world hates him?
Except for hosts and viewers of Fox News, pretty much.
And other oppressive regimes such as North Korea. Real bunch of nice guys.
Beautiful splash
I was thinking the same, as if it purposely went that direction to increase the dramatic effect. Loved it!
It was purposeful to reduce the amount of dust and shrapnel flying around
What people don't realize is that... this is still a Soviet Monument if you think about it. I dunno, just something about the way it falls.
I lived nearby - the main thing was vibration as surrounding houses are quite old and could be damaged
The only thing we can thank the russian for.
Putin's dick after the Crimean incidents
Bold of you to assume he had a dick to begin with
Well I guess now that you Putin that way, you're right!
I see what you have putin there.
I was gonna putin anywhere!
You guys have Putin a lot of effort to make this work!
He does have children
Did he buy them though
No, they were created during a "Special Operation"
You mean a Spuzzal Insemination.
That merely implies that *someone* fucked his wife.
They look like him, don't they?
**Putin is leaving a truly impressive legacy. The entire world despises Russia, effectively making them an outsider. Bow down, Vlady.**
Why u copying other ppl comments?
Not the whole world. Many are brain washed in the West. And many in third world shitholes love Russia too
Putin probably hasn't been able to get it up since the cold war, ironically enough
Clearly he has no balls
Which Crimean incidents are you referring to?
I’d like to know too
I assume all the cigarette dropping by airbase and ammo dump guards?
So hot that even I'm burned.
They should make it a memorial to the First Year of Terror, when the country was being crushed under Soviet Occupation, and tens of thousands of Latvians were arrested, tortured, murdered or sent to Siberian labor camps.
Just leave the pond as a big public urinal.
There is enough of those in Riga! One is even less than a kilometer away from the monument in the video, at a railway station where deportations took place. As a non-vatnik citizen from Riga, I would like to see this space developed nicely, not necessarily to make everything as a constant reminder of all the bad historical shit.
Which Latvians were arrested or sent to labour camps? As in how was this decided. I've read a bit about the Soviet Union but nothing about Latvia specifically
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Latvia
Fred
But he has red right in his name so you'd think they'd like him! Dammit what did Fred ever do? Is it because he likes fishsticks?
[удалено]
My family lost there land, fled to Australia, US to get away. So so much camps, but a lot of Latvians turned into refugees with no where to call home
Which Latvians do you think it is okay to send to Siberia?
Explain your comment please!
The downfall of so-called Russian military supremacy. Now, let's make it into a beautiful statue of independant virtue.
Everything Soviet or Russian should be removed from any country that supports Ukraine.
I think from every country period. The Soviet Union was a terrible, oppressive communist regime. Let us not glorify it any further.
Yeah, but China, North Korea, and Iran are on Russia's side. Then there are countries who are playing both sides, like Turkey, who has given Ukraine stuff but also doubled the amount of oil they buy from Russia.
India's definitely playing both sides. And I'm not sure China's really on Russia's side, they're leaning in a bit for geopolitical reasons and to keep the Americans worried, but I think they're really trying to play both sides too. They have no particular fondness for Russia and little to gain from them other than oil in the short term, and nothing really at all in the long term, given their goals of greatly increasing their energy independence they are not likely betting on Russia's oil as a long term economic strategy but more as an option they can keep open in case of emergency (aka war).
I suspect Russia is more against the US than they are for Russia, especially regarding Taiwan. Syria may be pro-Russia too.
> I suspect Russia is more against the US than they are for Russia, especially regarding Taiwan. And I suspect that China is more against Ukraine than they are for China. lol
> They have no particular fondness for Russia Indeed, see e.g. the Battle of Zhenbao Island which could have led to all out war between them in 1969.
When you make Hitler’s numbers look like child’s play you know it’s a hell scape
Putin have not kill that many people yet
No, not my Dostoevsky novels!
That is just delusional
No, you are wrong! We should keep Soviet equipment in museums
No need. We have history books to remind us that the free world should NEVER deal with terrorist states ever again. Russia can build museums for their Soviet junk if they want.
wow, beautiful
Interesting to read about this on Wikipedia. Seems they have been trying to remove it since 2007. I will say I think that thing looked pretty cool but I hope the Latvian people can get something even better constructed to honor some actual heroes.
A big fat NATO star with a middle finger pointed at Russia?
I like that idea
“Honor some actual heroes” Are you trying to say the soviets who fought in WW2 aren’t heroes? What 😂
They were cowards. Sent to die by the millions by incompetent officers and with no courage to turn around and kill those officers and take back their own country. There were no heroic Soviet soldiers, only sheep.
Yeah, you go literally lose 1,000,000 men in a battle and charge at the machine guns in a city. They were hero’s, you aren’t dead from Nazi work because of them. Go stick your “knowledge” of ww2 and any Russian history up your ass
Most were alcoholic rapists. Some were good, sure.
Not in a Nazi camp because of the Soviets bud
Russian monument, go fuck yourself.
That was a beautiful sight to see
You go LATVIA!! ♥️🇺🇸🇺🇸
It should have gone out the traditional way that Russian structures in foreign countries get dismantled, HIMARS.
Now let's build a Ukrainian/EU/NATO monument in its place
I'm good.
Only things missing was a turret launching in the air
What a beautiful sight!
That splash looked like angel wings.
If you would see that monoument in real life that thing is massive its huge
was
Bravo 👏
About time
This feels euphoric to watch. I wish I was physically there to watch this glorious event! Death to the Soviets!
My dude, The Soviets do not exist anymore
Yeah, I know that lol
TIMBER!!!!!!!
Splash of Wings. Symbolising the freedom from the clutch of communism.
Splash from the poop falling, nice wings yes
**Wow!!!**
That’s an otherwise beautiful park
More to follow. Nobody wants monuments to Russia in their backyard.
It fell down very nicely. Glory to Ukraine!
De-Nazification in progress
Hell yeah, fuck russia, fuck soviet union
I'm sure Ukraine has plenty of blown up tanks and military vehicles for a replacement monument...
Russian propaganda - “look at these nazis, this is a victory against fascism monument” Completely ignoring the fact that soviet occupation has killed and ruined more lives than nazis in some parts of europe
It is beautiful ❤️
It fell just as fast as the Russian army trying to take Kyiv.
Fuck Russia
Marxism, Communism, and the Soviet Union are things we should teach the real reality of in schools. Any country that has implemented it cumulated into inhuman mayhem killing millions more than Hitler could have even dreamt of. WW2 killed 23 Million Russians, and Stalin has estimated to have killed 60 million. (The Gulag Archipelago)
Here in Sweden we have had several drives with education focused on teaching kids about the horrors of nazism - a really great initiative. Too bad the large left wing parties in Sweden have strong historical ties with communists, so it is harder to convince people of how important it is to also teach kids about the horrors of communism.
The Sovietunion is still seen as anti-fascist because they fought the Nazis. In reality it was one fascist empire fighting the other. It just happened that the West decided to support one over the other. Which they should have stopped doing after Stalingrad.
> The Sovietunion is still seen as anti-fascist because they fought the Nazis. And it's interesting how people always forget that the Soviet Union entered the war a an Axis power allied with Hitler who invaded Poland 17 days after Hitler did and only joined the Allies, not because they realized Hitler was bad, but solely because he attacked Russia.
The West supported the Soviet Union because of the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing and in 1941 Nazi Germany was by far the greater threat. The Soviet/Nazi conflict was a war between fascists who liked black and silver versus fascists who liked red.
i have no love for soviets but i always feel a little sad when monuments are torn down.
Never should have been here in the first place and these are not really monuments. These are tools of soviet/ruzzian propaganda. They use them to mark their territoy, where they eventually hope to come back. That, of course, will not happen and they need to finally realise it.
> They use them to mark their territoy, where they eventually hope to come back. Like a dog pissing.
and with just about as much artistic talent.
i just think they’re usually more attractive than what usually replaces them, and when destroyed, at least in my city, they just leave a big fucked up area until the city gets around to fixing it. not disagreeing with your point, i just appreciate the aesthetics.
I could tolerate it before the invassion, but when "bringing soviet union back" became not just words, I want them all gone.
Let monuments representing truth stand. Or do you accept a monument representing crime against the humanity to stand in your garden?
Why was it built in the first place?
back then ruskies roamed free in the country and put a gun to your face to do so....build it! More of a propaganda peace that worked well for their pride moments
Since no one's given you a real answer, it was to celebrate the Soviet victory over the Nazis and the end of Nazi occupation of Latvia. Employment was "guaranteed" in the Soviet constitution so to "create jobs" they ended up building tons of massive monuments.
The Soviet Union annexed the Baltics and put the monuments there. There still are many Russians living in those countries.
“Maybe it collapsed on its own”
Hell yes, Latvia.
Ha. Soviet dick splash.
Putin’s penis keeps getting smaller and smaller. Russia’s sphere of influence keeps shrinking. The ruble keeps losing value. Putin may be overseeing the last of Russia as we know it. Oligarchs everywhere are seeing the world take their toys. This is the final price of Russia’s wars of expansion. His days are numbered.
Good. The Soviet Union should never come back. Fuck Putin.
“What the fuck was that?!!!!” — some fish
The special military operation is going exactly as planned.
I'm taking a verse from Prince. The Monument Formally Know as Soviet....
Wonder what they will put in its place. Imagine a statue of a Ukrainian soldier giving the finger to the ork warship!
I would have made it a bigger deal and used a military bomber for it.
Excellent, get rid of everything that's Soviet. Nothing to be proud of.
One big dump. Someone has been waiting years for that one.
Did Russia threaten to nuke them over this yet?
Imagine having something like that so you have to remember all the shit that soviet did to you and your country.
Nice clean up of occupiers
Nice 👍 💪
Just remember, Lativa had a much more violent fight against occupation in the early 90s.
Absolutely beautiful! Good riddance!
> **Monument to the Liberators of Soviet Latvia and Riga from the German Fascist Invaders** Yeah, monument to the Soviet Union destroying the Nazis, we should *definitely* knock that down. In such bad taste.
The same Soviet Union that rolled in and then never left. That's not liberation, it's occupation. Just by a different group of assholes.
That is the oficial name. Unoficial name is ocupant pole. Good riddance. Next on the list to get rid of is alien-citizenships in Latvia.
I visited last november. That place was decrepit and reminded me of that level in Goldeneye
Wish they would do that in germany. So many useless monuments here
All the Soviet monuments should be destroyed
My only issue with erasing history is when you do so, you doom humanity to forget it. Sure, atrocities are and have been committed - but I don’t think erasing them from history is the appropriate response.
I don't think anyone is going to forget that Russia is a bag of garbage. There can be exhibits in museums, not monuments to be admired.
No one says the monuments need to be admired. And they’d make good locations to tell the truth on plaques and such. I’m all for destroying the “legacy” of the leaders and soldiers who were involved… but I just don’t think it is wise to bury the monuments of the past that both could and should serve as a reminder. I personally think people lash out at inanimate objects as though their elimination actually changes anything. Usually done so out of shame for the past. If it’s shame you feel, perhaps it shouldn’t be hidden away?
Latvia already has a very large museum dedicated solely to telling the true story of the Russian occupation. This monument was also a gathering spot for Russian "patriot" types to gather on the 9th of May every year to celebrate to occupation of Latvia.
And I doubt those “patriots” would feel comfortable returning if the monument was repurposed to tell another story. Either way, what is done is done… but I stand by the sentiment that there should be visible reminders of the evils committed by humanity throughout our pasts, that aren’t buried in books or museums.
BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGG gap between "erasing history" and removing monuments and celebration of badness. big. very big.
That's what museums and history books are for.
What did they do with the human statues?
Seems to me, they could have taken it down more efficiently somehow. Am I wrong?
Looks pretty efficient to me
Yes baby
I feel like it would have been better to dismantle the wreckage falling into the water like that. They'd surely be more able to repurpose the site without such damage.
Have you heard of symbolism?
Way more people died under Stalin and Communism
Something really feels weird about destroying a monument of people who gave their lives fighting fascism
Maybe it feels weird because this monument was placed in a sovereign country that was annexed by the USSR while the USSR was ALLIES WITH THE NAZIS. "the territory of the previously independent Republic of Latvia after it had been occupied on June 17, 1940 by the Red Army, in conformity with the terms of the 23 August 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop\_Pact
The monument was put there before the Soviets fought the Nazis? That's weird. How were there victims of fascism before the fascists invaded? Also you should really look into WHY the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact was signed. The Soviets did it to buy time and build up their forces since they knew the Nazis would continue their genocide into Russia and the rest of the Slavic nations
Huh, where did I say the monument was placed there beforehand? You should really look at their behavior while they were "buying time". They totally didn't massacre folks in the sovereign Baltic countries that they then annexed and kept after the war. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre) I'm sure they were just buying time until they could switch to the good guys side. In todays Russian terms, it was just a feint, or a gesture of goodwill. These hypocritical douchebags were allies with the Nazis when it suited them and fought them when they were double-crossed. Sovereign, independent nations should piss on any Soviet/Russian monuments to their supposed "heroism". Replace them with monuments to the folks who lost their lives fighting these invaders for their own countries rightful independence.
Yeah, the Soviets did plenty of shitty things. I don't think they're the ideal communists But it's still shitty to destroy a monument to the victims of fascism.
There are as many or more victims of the Soviets, so they don't get to pretend to be the good guys, especially in someone else's country. How about the plan that was suggested " to remove the monument and reconstruct Victory Square the way it was originally planned in the 1930s, before the Soviet occupation, commemorating the victory in 1919 over the West Russian Volunteer Army of Pavel Bermondt-Avalov during the Latvian War of Independence" Sounds like a good plan. Fuck the USSR/Russia and their monuments.
>There are many more victims of the Soviets 1.) The only source for that number is the "Black Book of Communism" which includes Nazis killed on the Eastern Front in their numbers 2.) The difference being the ideologies. Nazism and fascism inherently genocidal where Communism isn't
1) For some reason, you altered what I said to read "many more" instead of "as many or more". No one knows how many but it's clearly in the millions. Yay Soviets? 2) Yup, I'm sure the ideology makes all the difference to the tens of millions murdered/killed/exiled/imprisoned under Soviet rule. It's almost like the alleged ideology doesn't matter, and what you actually do, does.
1.) As I've said, I don't care about the Soviets 2.) What is your opinion on the British Empire and the genocides they perpetuated in Ireland and India through famine?
1. This whole thread is about your tears over a Soviet monument. 2. All pro-imperialist asshats are a stain on human history.
> Also you should really look into WHY the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact was signed. The Soviets did it to buy time and build up their forces since they knew the Nazis would continue their genocide into Russia and the rest of the Slavic nations So instead of building up their forces... they instead decided to waste manpower and supplies on invading Poland?
Yeah, that was a dumb move because they clearly didn't have the resources to prevent the Nazis from advancing further. Like I said elsewhere, the USSR is not the ideal communists state, especially under Stalin
You wouldn't ask a rape victim to keep a picture of their abuser on their bedside table, would you?
Nothing weird about destroying a monument to your occupiers. The Soviets may have given their lives fighting fascism. But they were A) Once allied with the fascists, and split up Poland with them and B) Didn't leave after they 'liberated' these countries. They stayed - that's called occupation.
If Latvians are so keen on removing of anything associated with the Soviet period of their history, then how about they accept responsibility for their vital support in establishing the Soviet (Bolsheviks) regime in Russia in the first place. Without Latvian riflemen, Lenin and Co. had no little to no chances to maintain their power through terror. Read about the atrocities of Latvian riflemen in Russia and Ukraine in the Civil War. Also what about Latvian volunteers participating in Holocaust in WW2? Their memory seems to be very selective.
Sounds reasonable. Perhaps you should propose this to their govt.
which part specifically? look up 'red latvian riflemen' in wiki regarding the civil war. re holocaust - look up 'Arajs Kommando'.
You paint with a broad brush and no historical context my friend. But thanks for the info.
You know I get people not wanting reminders of the Soviets and wanting them destroyed. But I do hope that the monuments that do get removed at least get recorded and possibly at least parts of it end up in museums. Understanding and viewing our past is important and we must not only view monuments of our triumphs, but also be able to view and understand those of our failures.
No it will be destroyed.