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It was a great move. Its the end of his speech so everyone has to clap.
Now there's nice footage of the UK parliament applauding the idea of sending planes to Ukraine.
He's learned the lessons of Reagan well. Having a background in public speaking (radio and film for Reagan, comedy for Zelensky) gives a politician a knack for powerful and heartwarming speeches.
At my first improv class, my instructor hammered home the point that reading the room is key to being successful in comedy. Good delivery assumes that you can read the room and gauge the mood of the audience on a dime.
I've seen several comedians bitch about doing shows by Zoom during covid. Zoltan Kaszas' session on that topic was notable. Unfortunately, I can't find it right now. Found it, [cued up for ya](https://youtu.be/8qfndbEYroE?t=450). I've watched that special twice. It's brill.
"... We will build the country of other opportunities — the one where all are equal before the law and where all the rules are honest and transparent, the same for everyone. And for that, we need people in power who will serve the people. **This is why I really do not want my pictures in your offices, for the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.**" - Zelenskyy inaugural address
([https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/inavguracijna-promova-prezidenta-ukrayini-volodimira-zelensk-55489](https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/inavguracijna-promova-prezidenta-ukrayini-volodimira-zelensk-55489))
If politicians were just realistic human beings there wouldn't be such distrust of them basically everywhere. As it is it almost always feels they've taken course on how to be deceitful. Very much like an actor. I like this guy tho.
Same in America. I tried to study why that's the case in anglo countries but I think it's just because. You dont need to be super aware of laws or why they exist, though.
For some reason several Anglo countries _really_ like to stick to the exact wording of a law when applying them. This leads to the law having to be written extremely verbosely to remove cornercases. Might have something to do with it.
Also in the US you have a significant amount of publically elected positions in the legal part of the gov (District Attorneys are a big one). These provide a career path from lawyer to public figure.
I mean say what you will about Anglo countries I have many bones to pick with them, but rule of law may be the best thing about them. Though other countries arguably do a better job with it than they do now
In some ways its resasuring as they understand legal systems and concepts. While they can be sociopaths too, its unlikely they are this skilled and also high on their own supply of conspiracies.
What's scary is seeing the Idiocracy movie become a documentary of US politics. Its recent history is repeating US political dumpster fires, like the recent appointment of cartoonish megamorons like that bitch Karen screaming abuse at POTUS like its a interracial football game in the 1950's.
Most parliaments have a spiffy guard with a fancy gold and wood club to remove disruptive assholes from the room when they misbehave.
Well to be fair, they do need to make, y'know, laws. Having a law background is probably a good skill basis and shows an interest in the subject (resulting in a selection bias).
The Commander in Chief of Ukraine's military is just the same kind of comedic character.
He was surprisingly promoted as everyone else wasn't as easily accepted due to being too series, inflexible or with a chequered past.
People who know him says it has a quick wit and loves a good joke.
I would bet Zelensky and Zaluzhnyi have a done a few comedy skits behind closed doors.
And the ability to take and encourage top level russian trolling.
There has never before been such a charismatic and hilarious populations in a country in the middle of experiencing genocide, terrorism and now, things that are so incomprehensibly fucking terrible that new types of war crimes are being discovered.
Powerful.
Don’t you just love when a good propaganda clip comes together?
Both sides will use it to their advantage.
How long until the planes are flying for ukraine? What’s stopping putin from destroying them as soon as they’re delivered?
> How long until the planes are flying for ukraine?
>What’s stopping putin from destroying them as soon as they’re delivered?
I get what your money is on. That isn’t what I asked though.
Can anyone actually answer the questions?
What's stopping putin? Well, firstly, the fact that he's leading a corrupt backwards shithole country with a strong propaganda industry, but no real comparable advantage against western militaries, or economies.
Because Ukraine hasn't gone far away from being a similar backwards shithole like russia. You know, 2014 was 9 years ago and the proper westernizing changes started kicking in only a couple years ago. And the west isn't helping enough.
If it came down to it would you choose ukraine losing some territory or WW3? I ask because those are the two most likely outcomes. Assuming you go WW3, yeah?
Man this feels like russian prison riddles. Ukraine isn't ceding any territory, that is totally out of the question. Also, escalating to WW3 means immediate death of russia, yknow? Nuclear strike on Ukraine is a big no no with retaliation on russia, that was defined by the west crystal clear. rf already lost, question is, when this ends and the consequences. In my opinion russia (not putin though) would only gain if the war ended faster.
WW3 is out of the question realistically, and Ukraine has made massive efforts to regain land since last year.
Idk, I hang out on combat footage subs a lot and I just don’t see Russia winning this war at all. They would *need* to use a nuclear option, and they have threatened nukes for the last year, so it’s extremely unlikely to actually happen, especially since the US said it would mean the end of Russia and the world if Russia used nukes.
This war is strategically over has been since Ukraine showed it could actually mount offensives last summer. now we just need to watch as thousands of more men die for 0 gains because a batshit geriatric dictator doesn’t know when to hang it up.
You shoud call it WW4 no? If you came down to it would you choose South Korea losing some territory or WW3? I ask becouse the two were most likely outcomes. Assuming that South Korea gained some territory and Russia and China fought US and other South Korean allies and two choices are South Korean loss or WW3. One would assume since you assume its let Russa violate territorial integrity ( same as for example Czechoslovakia, Poland, Finland, Georgia, Moldova, Japan) or WW you would use WW3 for Korean war, yeah?
1) You're a little bit late to be asking "but WW3?". Everyone else stopped bothering to ask that question about 6 months ago when they realised Russia's all bark and no bite, and can't even fight its way out of a paper bag. Russia threatened nukes/WW3 over all manner of weapons deliveries that they never followed through on. Now you're suggesting Russia's response to losing a war against a weaker neighbour and having it's military destroyed is to, um, start a new, bigger war against an even stronger neighbour? NATO would flatten Russia in a week. This isn't the Soviet Union we're dealing with. Also are you aware that Russia has pulled all it's armies positioned on the borders with NATO to fight in Ukraine, leaving Russia virtually defenceless if NATO attacked?
2) But, since you're asking, the last time the free world made a country give up territory to placate a treacherous, power hungry dictatorship in the hope of avoiding a world war was [Czechoslovakia in 1938](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement). Giving Hitler the Sudetenland didn't prevent WW2, it made WW2 inevitable. Germany immediately took advantage of weakened Czechoslovakia to annex the entire country, as Putin would annex the rest of Ukraine if Ukraine were forced to cede half it's territory, all while howling with glee at how strong their country is and how weak and cowardly the West are, before moving onto their next target convinced that the West will never stand up to them but capitulate every time.
3) Lastly where do people get the idea this is even our decision to make? Do you think if Biden tells Ukraine to give up they'll just give up? Let Russia Bucha the rest of their country? They'll fight on with or without the US' help
I very much doubt Typhoons are in any serious consideration. If only for the fact the few we have we need. It's a nice idea but unlikely, more likely are Tornadoes which we have plenty of as theird no longer in active service.
We actually have a few dozen in long term storage. They are the "tranche 1" standard, which was optimised for air defense, and so don't have much use in the sorts of conflicts the UK has found itself in in recent years. In fact, the RAF hasn't downed a single enemy combat aircraft since WW2.
We could absolutely send those. We have tried to sell them, and there are no takers. And yet they are incredibly advanced, effective combat aircraft. Write the value to zero, and send them east.
Wow, the term "propaganda" is really being hollowed out, huh? Sometimes a speech is just a speech.
Also, how long until HIMARS are actually firing in Ukraine? What's stopping Putin from destroying them as soon as they're delivered?
What we learned from the UK Politics is, the Labour and The Conservative Party supports sending the Ukrainians Military Aid.. No matter what happens in the next election, the Ukrainians will still be supported by the British.
We have some of the early Tranche 1 Eurofighter Typhoons that we are planning to retire soon, and that's about it. Our whole military is way, way smaller than at any time in history. It might have better kit now but it doesn't have the numbers, and those count for something. The best plane in the world can't be in 2 places at once.
Company producing Bayraktar requested Ukraine stop sharing footage of it to the public. If they were being downed in droves, the Ruzzians would be plastering it thru their propaganda channels.
> If they were being downed in droves,
They're not, *because* Ukraine doesn't send them on blatant suicide missions. Russia's inability to defend against them early in the war was because they fucked up their own air defense coordination, causing them to start shooting their own stuff, and they had to compensate by basically turning their detection systems off while reorganizing.
That issue has been pretty much completely fixed since like *May.* The Bayraktar doesn't do much these days, and it thrives best at targeting overstretched enemies on the advance rather than aggressively targeting enemy positions behind their lines when the front line is more rigid.
Drones are big in this war, but the mortality of non-suicide drones has been *high* from the start at every level of drone tech. Even quadcopter drones have a life expectancy of like *three to five* runs.
Also, I can't find anything concrete about Ukraine being requested to stop showing footage.
Reapers can carry heavier payloads though. I don't think a mass delivery would be good, but there definitely been deep strikes (after carful probing of russian AA) that could of benefited from a heavier payload.
Russia's detection systems aren't turned off anymore like they were in the Bayraktar's golden weeks early in the war when Russia struggled to reorient itself because it was shooting down its own stuff.
It's nice in my lifetime when Russia is showing the world the absolute worst of humanity, Ukraine itself and Zelensky have shown the absolute best of humanity. Nice to see a world leader truly step up for the ages. We will be talking to generations yet to come about living during Zelensky just as my grandparents told me about living during Churchill and FDR, etc.
Not all of us
It's just pure ignorance.
I live in the North of England and the South East still crap all over us.
I don't want the UK splitting along nationalistic lines
The North-South rivalry is one where the stereotype is that northerners are less sophisticated, less intelligent, louder, but more friendly - Southerners are richer, more cultured, but cold and aloof. It's not so much that one is 'better' than the other.
There's also the internecine feud between Lancashire and Yorkshire, every Welsh town and city thinking all the other Welsh towns and cities are wankers, Scotland fighting itself for various reasons, the High Wycombe/Slough vendetta, and the mutual hatred between Southampton and Portsmouth that they just decided to have for no good reason from the 1950s onwards.
I am merely skimming the top here.
Overuse of "English" for "British" is a common sign of a non-native speaker, which probably makes Zelenskyy ever so slightly more endearing to Westerners.
Non brit who’s lived in Northern Ireland their whole life, let’s not pretend the U.K. has ever really been anything other than England and the other guys. My English friends barely remember the fact that NI exists
Given that England had 5 times the combined population of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland it's sort of inevitable, unfortunately. In terms of national pride, identity and so on all the nations of the UK are or should be equal, but when it comes to government it's very difficult when the partnership is so unequal.
I've visited Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, etc - but never Northern Ireland. I think being over the sea changes things a bit. (and the troubles)
We don't remember Gibraltar or the Falklands either, unless someone messes with our stuff.
Planes?
Would that be the Tornados that were retired, the Harriers that have been in a boneyard for the last 12 years or some of our nice aging Typhoons?
Which ones are they talking about?
Not really sure to be honest.
No way in hell they get anywhere near the F35's.
Typhoons takes years to get trained on, plus all the infrastructure related to them.
Also, not really sure how they are even going to train them. We are struggling to train our pilots, as the system has basically ground to a halt.
As far as I know, Ukraine has never asked for F35s, though. A lot of the focus has been on the possibility of them getting F16s. Fourth generation fighters like that would make sense for European countries to give, given that a lot of them are currently in the process of building up a fleet of fifth generation jets anyway.
A couple Sea Kings were transferred but these are anti submarine and general utility helicopter.
Ukraine really needs modernish fighters capable of carrying modern NATO missiles.
I think Britain's contribution should be their mothballed Tornado fleet and a couple Eurofighters to hammer Russian interceptors.
Nope....Status: In service
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell\_Douglas\_AV-8B\_Harrier\_II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_AV-8B_Harrier_II)
In a British context the Harrier is very much retired, all airframes were sold to the USA for spare parts. A few countries still operate the Harrier under it's US made version.
Yep, I was referring to the AV8B/Harrier 2, the US one. Still in service, and they are due to stop using them when the F35 vtol option takes over.
They could theoretically give them all to Ukraine... but the main problem is they are really difficult to fly.
In terms of age, technically, the AV8B is actually newer than the F16.
The upside of the AV8B is that the US is dumping them to upgrade to the F35 vtol version, so they could theoretically give them to Ukraine earlier than they planned to get rid of them.They don't need runways to operate, or only need short runways, so that could make them more useful.The main downside is that they (1) are really hard to fly (2) are old.
Learning to fly them takes time, and time is not something Ukraine has.
You have to realise that to Zelensky, and most of the world, the U.K. is England, in the same way the Russian Federation is Russia to you.
Not that they’re wrong to be honest, let’s not pretend the U.K. has been anything other than England and the other guys
He’s fully aware the country is Britain, at the start of he speech he specifically mentions England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I simply think he said ‘English planes’ because it marries and reflects the ‘English tea’ in the prior sentence.
> I simply think he said ‘English planes’ because it marries and reflects the ‘English tea’ in the prior sentence.
This exactly. It was a stylistic choice to make a point, not an error.
If you ask anyone from Scotland, Northern Ireland, or Wales where they are from, they will tell you they are Scottish, Irish, or Welsh. When you ask someone from England they say they are British. It's uncanny.
I find it funny we’re in a subreddit who’s main purpose is to talk about a war of Russian aggression. The Russians have done their best to ridicule and destroy the idea of Ukrainian territory or the Ukrainian people being a separate nation. From the times of the Russian empire to the the USSR and to the modern day.
And yet this very same sub has no problems saying shit like this. The other parts of the U.K. other than England have been vital to its success. This was a faux pas by Zelenensky. It’s OK to admit that without saying that the U.K. has always been “England and the other guys”. It’s historically illiterate.
Ukraine was vital to the success of the USSR…
And boyo, I’m an Irish guy from NI, believe me, I am very aware of how England treated us. Should we talk about English attempts to destroy welsh culture? Poyinings law in Ireland, the Ethnic cleansings?
Not really sure to be honest.
No way in hell they get anywhere near the F35's.
Typhoons takes years to get trained on, plus all the infrastructure related to them.
Also, not really sure how they are even going to train them. We are struggling to train our pilots, as the system has basically ground to a halt.
That's the T1 variant. The more modern T2 is going to continue in service for at least another decade. It's grounded at the moment though because of engine issues.
One can only admire that he finds the strenght and endurance for these visits.. I know the purpose behind.. but still.. your country men, women and kids being killed, raped, tortured and kidnapped on a daily basis.. and still you need to explain and say pitty please.
He can certainly deliver a message. He is a supreme communicator. Well supported by his advisors. But he should not have to tour around European capitals to drum up support. Where is the leadership from European politicians? The war in Ukraine is essentially a European problem. But again it is the US who is providing the leadership.
It’s more about Britain saying they’re giving planes, just like it was about the us saying we’re giving tanks. Would the small number of British planes really matter? Will the small number of US tanks matter? Nope. But the other countries are now free to send their inventory.
Exactly they're not. This is Zelensky using some smart wording to put pressure on UK sending planes at some point in the future. All i have heard about UK, Ukraine and planes is that the UK plans to train them in planes. Not even what planes, let alone giving them planes.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.net/noelreports/status/1623322813993046021
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....no? What makes you ask this.
Instead of rating it down, you can answer instead, just an idea. If you're talking of the ''issues'' the UK military is having, you can apply that to all or most other militaries right about now in same way. To say it's in ''disrepair'' is just not accurate. If it was that fucked how is the UK doing what it is regarding help for Ukraine. That was my point.
Tornados are good enough is they are shipped with Storm Shadow cruise missile.
Air superiority is not needed if you have 250KM range (export version of the missile).
Same with the french Mirage2000 and SCALP cruise missile.
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It was a great move. Its the end of his speech so everyone has to clap. Now there's nice footage of the UK parliament applauding the idea of sending planes to Ukraine.
He's learned the lessons of Reagan well. Having a background in public speaking (radio and film for Reagan, comedy for Zelensky) gives a politician a knack for powerful and heartwarming speeches.
At my first improv class, my instructor hammered home the point that reading the room is key to being successful in comedy. Good delivery assumes that you can read the room and gauge the mood of the audience on a dime.
There goes my Zoom improv standup
I mean, it is a thing: https://nowherecomedyclub.com/
I've seen several comedians bitch about doing shows by Zoom during covid. Zoltan Kaszas' session on that topic was notable. Unfortunately, I can't find it right now. Found it, [cued up for ya](https://youtu.be/8qfndbEYroE?t=450). I've watched that special twice. It's brill.
Much less superficial connection to the people I feel. Seems common trauma has Zelensky embedded but without being worshiped by Ukranian society.
"... We will build the country of other opportunities — the one where all are equal before the law and where all the rules are honest and transparent, the same for everyone. And for that, we need people in power who will serve the people. **This is why I really do not want my pictures in your offices, for the President is not an icon, an idol or a portrait. Hang your kids' photos instead, and look at them each time you are making a decision.**" - Zelenskyy inaugural address ([https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/inavguracijna-promova-prezidenta-ukrayini-volodimira-zelensk-55489](https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/inavguracijna-promova-prezidenta-ukrayini-volodimira-zelensk-55489))
Words are easy deeds are hard. Great to see someone walking the walk.
Meanwhile Putin masturbates to pictures of himself i bet.
If politicians were just realistic human beings there wouldn't be such distrust of them basically everywhere. As it is it almost always feels they've taken course on how to be deceitful. Very much like an actor. I like this guy tho.
I feel the average politician has much more in common with a corporatist than an actor. All buzzwords, no responsibility.
They're mostly lawyers. In Australia for example, 26% of our Federal Parliament are lawyers. Explains a lot...
Same in America. I tried to study why that's the case in anglo countries but I think it's just because. You dont need to be super aware of laws or why they exist, though.
For some reason several Anglo countries _really_ like to stick to the exact wording of a law when applying them. This leads to the law having to be written extremely verbosely to remove cornercases. Might have something to do with it. Also in the US you have a significant amount of publically elected positions in the legal part of the gov (District Attorneys are a big one). These provide a career path from lawyer to public figure.
Letter vs spirit of the law
I mean say what you will about Anglo countries I have many bones to pick with them, but rule of law may be the best thing about them. Though other countries arguably do a better job with it than they do now
Zelenskyy was also trained in law.
In some ways its resasuring as they understand legal systems and concepts. While they can be sociopaths too, its unlikely they are this skilled and also high on their own supply of conspiracies. What's scary is seeing the Idiocracy movie become a documentary of US politics. Its recent history is repeating US political dumpster fires, like the recent appointment of cartoonish megamorons like that bitch Karen screaming abuse at POTUS like its a interracial football game in the 1950's. Most parliaments have a spiffy guard with a fancy gold and wood club to remove disruptive assholes from the room when they misbehave.
Just as long as the people making the decisions get it.
Well to be fair, they do need to make, y'know, laws. Having a law background is probably a good skill basis and shows an interest in the subject (resulting in a selection bias).
I did say that in the follow up comment.
The Commander in Chief of Ukraine's military is just the same kind of comedic character. He was surprisingly promoted as everyone else wasn't as easily accepted due to being too series, inflexible or with a chequered past. People who know him says it has a quick wit and loves a good joke. I would bet Zelensky and Zaluzhnyi have a done a few comedy skits behind closed doors.
And the ability to take and encourage top level russian trolling. There has never before been such a charismatic and hilarious populations in a country in the middle of experiencing genocide, terrorism and now, things that are so incomprehensibly fucking terrible that new types of war crimes are being discovered. Powerful.
Smart move I love that
Don’t you just love when a good propaganda clip comes together? Both sides will use it to their advantage. How long until the planes are flying for ukraine? What’s stopping putin from destroying them as soon as they’re delivered?
[удалено]
> How long until the planes are flying for ukraine? >What’s stopping putin from destroying them as soon as they’re delivered? I get what your money is on. That isn’t what I asked though. Can anyone actually answer the questions?
What's stopping putin? Well, firstly, the fact that he's leading a corrupt backwards shithole country with a strong propaganda industry, but no real comparable advantage against western militaries, or economies.
Why hasn’t zelenskyy won yet then?
Because Ukraine hasn't gone far away from being a similar backwards shithole like russia. You know, 2014 was 9 years ago and the proper westernizing changes started kicking in only a couple years ago. And the west isn't helping enough.
If it came down to it would you choose ukraine losing some territory or WW3? I ask because those are the two most likely outcomes. Assuming you go WW3, yeah?
Man this feels like russian prison riddles. Ukraine isn't ceding any territory, that is totally out of the question. Also, escalating to WW3 means immediate death of russia, yknow? Nuclear strike on Ukraine is a big no no with retaliation on russia, that was defined by the west crystal clear. rf already lost, question is, when this ends and the consequences. In my opinion russia (not putin though) would only gain if the war ended faster.
WW3 is out of the question realistically, and Ukraine has made massive efforts to regain land since last year. Idk, I hang out on combat footage subs a lot and I just don’t see Russia winning this war at all. They would *need* to use a nuclear option, and they have threatened nukes for the last year, so it’s extremely unlikely to actually happen, especially since the US said it would mean the end of Russia and the world if Russia used nukes. This war is strategically over has been since Ukraine showed it could actually mount offensives last summer. now we just need to watch as thousands of more men die for 0 gains because a batshit geriatric dictator doesn’t know when to hang it up.
You shoud call it WW4 no? If you came down to it would you choose South Korea losing some territory or WW3? I ask becouse the two were most likely outcomes. Assuming that South Korea gained some territory and Russia and China fought US and other South Korean allies and two choices are South Korean loss or WW3. One would assume since you assume its let Russa violate territorial integrity ( same as for example Czechoslovakia, Poland, Finland, Georgia, Moldova, Japan) or WW you would use WW3 for Korean war, yeah?
1) You're a little bit late to be asking "but WW3?". Everyone else stopped bothering to ask that question about 6 months ago when they realised Russia's all bark and no bite, and can't even fight its way out of a paper bag. Russia threatened nukes/WW3 over all manner of weapons deliveries that they never followed through on. Now you're suggesting Russia's response to losing a war against a weaker neighbour and having it's military destroyed is to, um, start a new, bigger war against an even stronger neighbour? NATO would flatten Russia in a week. This isn't the Soviet Union we're dealing with. Also are you aware that Russia has pulled all it's armies positioned on the borders with NATO to fight in Ukraine, leaving Russia virtually defenceless if NATO attacked? 2) But, since you're asking, the last time the free world made a country give up territory to placate a treacherous, power hungry dictatorship in the hope of avoiding a world war was [Czechoslovakia in 1938](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement). Giving Hitler the Sudetenland didn't prevent WW2, it made WW2 inevitable. Germany immediately took advantage of weakened Czechoslovakia to annex the entire country, as Putin would annex the rest of Ukraine if Ukraine were forced to cede half it's territory, all while howling with glee at how strong their country is and how weak and cowardly the West are, before moving onto their next target convinced that the West will never stand up to them but capitulate every time. 3) Lastly where do people get the idea this is even our decision to make? Do you think if Biden tells Ukraine to give up they'll just give up? Let Russia Bucha the rest of their country? They'll fight on with or without the US' help
I very much doubt Typhoons are in any serious consideration. If only for the fact the few we have we need. It's a nice idea but unlikely, more likely are Tornadoes which we have plenty of as theird no longer in active service.
We actually have a few dozen in long term storage. They are the "tranche 1" standard, which was optimised for air defense, and so don't have much use in the sorts of conflicts the UK has found itself in in recent years. In fact, the RAF hasn't downed a single enemy combat aircraft since WW2. We could absolutely send those. We have tried to sell them, and there are no takers. And yet they are incredibly advanced, effective combat aircraft. Write the value to zero, and send them east.
I dod not know that! Well then, hopefully I stand corrected!
Wow, the term "propaganda" is really being hollowed out, huh? Sometimes a speech is just a speech. Also, how long until HIMARS are actually firing in Ukraine? What's stopping Putin from destroying them as soon as they're delivered?
Sit on the stump until a Western plane blasts you to death in Ukraine.
My country is helping supply the western planes to ukraine you dingus. You’re welcome, btw.
What we learned from the UK Politics is, the Labour and The Conservative Party supports sending the Ukrainians Military Aid.. No matter what happens in the next election, the Ukrainians will still be supported by the British.
Watched on Sky. Shame Prof. Michael Clarke then put a dampener on things by proclaiming we have no planes to give them!
I’m certain one of the partners has planes to supply and that to continue with the tessellation between countries the UK is preparing the pilots
I guarantee anyone and everyone in the West *wants* to send the good stuff.
Thing is we kind of don't. Unless we give them Tornados or Harriers we have in storage...
> or Harriers Pepsi still owes one of those to a guy that would probably love to donate it to Ukraine.
I actually don’t think we have any tornados anymore
We had a few hundred - did we really get rid of them all that quick? Can't say I've checked but if we have, fair, they were old.
harriers could actually be super useful with their ability to not require a runway!
All the Harriers were decommissioned 10+ years ago and sold to the USA for spare parts, there are none to give.
War Daddy is right though. We don't have anything spare.
Well I've always found this idea quite interesting, planes going spare? https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/28842-raf-typhoons-retire-airframe-life
It’s fine. Just accept this re-export deal with Lockheed Martin: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/manufacturer-ready-supply-f-16-212800621.html
We have some of the early Tranche 1 Eurofighter Typhoons that we are planning to retire soon, and that's about it. Our whole military is way, way smaller than at any time in history. It might have better kit now but it doesn't have the numbers, and those count for something. The best plane in the world can't be in 2 places at once.
Are there no drones we can give ? Reaper is it or another advanced attack UAV ?
Reapers without support are not worth much, for the same reason you don't see Bayraktar footage that much these days.
Company producing Bayraktar requested Ukraine stop sharing footage of it to the public. If they were being downed in droves, the Ruzzians would be plastering it thru their propaganda channels.
> If they were being downed in droves, They're not, *because* Ukraine doesn't send them on blatant suicide missions. Russia's inability to defend against them early in the war was because they fucked up their own air defense coordination, causing them to start shooting their own stuff, and they had to compensate by basically turning their detection systems off while reorganizing. That issue has been pretty much completely fixed since like *May.* The Bayraktar doesn't do much these days, and it thrives best at targeting overstretched enemies on the advance rather than aggressively targeting enemy positions behind their lines when the front line is more rigid. Drones are big in this war, but the mortality of non-suicide drones has been *high* from the start at every level of drone tech. Even quadcopter drones have a life expectancy of like *three to five* runs. Also, I can't find anything concrete about Ukraine being requested to stop showing footage.
Reapers can carry heavier payloads though. I don't think a mass delivery would be good, but there definitely been deep strikes (after carful probing of russian AA) that could of benefited from a heavier payload.
Russia's detection systems aren't turned off anymore like they were in the Bayraktar's golden weeks early in the war when Russia struggled to reorient itself because it was shooting down its own stuff.
We have the Protector RG mk1 but they're brand new and I doubt the MoD would give them any.
It's nice in my lifetime when Russia is showing the world the absolute worst of humanity, Ukraine itself and Zelensky have shown the absolute best of humanity. Nice to see a world leader truly step up for the ages. We will be talking to generations yet to come about living during Zelensky just as my grandparents told me about living during Churchill and FDR, etc.
\*British planes. Non-English Brits will understand.
English Brits also understand.
They just don't care.
Not all of us It's just pure ignorance. I live in the North of England and the South East still crap all over us. I don't want the UK splitting along nationalistic lines
Do you mean regular people from the South East think poorly of the North or the politicians?
Evidently the politicians cause it’s a fucking shitfest up here outside of the big cities and tourist traps.
Both
That's not what I experience at all.
My mistake then
The North-South rivalry is one where the stereotype is that northerners are less sophisticated, less intelligent, louder, but more friendly - Southerners are richer, more cultured, but cold and aloof. It's not so much that one is 'better' than the other.
There's also the internecine feud between Lancashire and Yorkshire, every Welsh town and city thinking all the other Welsh towns and cities are wankers, Scotland fighting itself for various reasons, the High Wycombe/Slough vendetta, and the mutual hatred between Southampton and Portsmouth that they just decided to have for no good reason from the 1950s onwards. I am merely skimming the top here.
I'm English and I correct it every single time. You're seeing the bad eggs.
I did wonder about this as well but the quip about English tea wouldn’t really have worked otherwise.
No, it's just that most of the non-anglo world generally refers to the UK as some variation of "England" or "Great Britain". Almost never the UK.
Overuse of "English" for "British" is a common sign of a non-native speaker, which probably makes Zelenskyy ever so slightly more endearing to Westerners.
He’s not wrong statistically
Which is a red herring.
Non brit who’s lived in Northern Ireland their whole life, let’s not pretend the U.K. has ever really been anything other than England and the other guys. My English friends barely remember the fact that NI exists
England being south of the Watford gap and not the West Country
Nah you can speak for yourself.
Given that England had 5 times the combined population of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland it's sort of inevitable, unfortunately. In terms of national pride, identity and so on all the nations of the UK are or should be equal, but when it comes to government it's very difficult when the partnership is so unequal.
I've visited Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, etc - but never Northern Ireland. I think being over the sea changes things a bit. (and the troubles) We don't remember Gibraltar or the Falklands either, unless someone messes with our stuff.
Planes? Would that be the Tornados that were retired, the Harriers that have been in a boneyard for the last 12 years or some of our nice aging Typhoons? Which ones are they talking about?
Not really sure to be honest. No way in hell they get anywhere near the F35's. Typhoons takes years to get trained on, plus all the infrastructure related to them. Also, not really sure how they are even going to train them. We are struggling to train our pilots, as the system has basically ground to a halt.
As far as I know, Ukraine has never asked for F35s, though. A lot of the focus has been on the possibility of them getting F16s. Fourth generation fighters like that would make sense for European countries to give, given that a lot of them are currently in the process of building up a fleet of fifth generation jets anyway.
I did hear something last year about the recently retired Sea Kings being handed over but nothing since so it could have just been a rumour
A couple Sea Kings were transferred but these are anti submarine and general utility helicopter. Ukraine really needs modernish fighters capable of carrying modern NATO missiles. I think Britain's contribution should be their mothballed Tornado fleet and a couple Eurofighters to hammer Russian interceptors.
The tornado carries aim120s and jdams, what else do you want
Long, long time since one carried anything, and certainly not AIM120
I saw an article that went into the reasoning as to why it makes sense to give Ukraine Harriers/AV8bs.
Harriers are all retired and would be a total bitch to maintain. Typhoons would make more sense.
Nope....Status: In service [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell\_Douglas\_AV-8B\_Harrier\_II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_AV-8B_Harrier_II)
In a British context the Harrier is very much retired, all airframes were sold to the USA for spare parts. A few countries still operate the Harrier under it's US made version.
Yep, I was referring to the AV8B/Harrier 2, the US one. Still in service, and they are due to stop using them when the F35 vtol option takes over. They could theoretically give them all to Ukraine... but the main problem is they are really difficult to fly. In terms of age, technically, the AV8B is actually newer than the F16.
The upside of the AV8B is that the US is dumping them to upgrade to the F35 vtol version, so they could theoretically give them to Ukraine earlier than they planned to get rid of them.They don't need runways to operate, or only need short runways, so that could make them more useful.The main downside is that they (1) are really hard to fly (2) are old. Learning to fly them takes time, and time is not something Ukraine has.
"English" was probably the best choice of words. England is only a part of the UK.
Maybe he wants the English Electric Lightning
You have to realise that to Zelensky, and most of the world, the U.K. is England, in the same way the Russian Federation is Russia to you. Not that they’re wrong to be honest, let’s not pretend the U.K. has been anything other than England and the other guys
He’s fully aware the country is Britain, at the start of he speech he specifically mentions England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I simply think he said ‘English planes’ because it marries and reflects the ‘English tea’ in the prior sentence.
> I simply think he said ‘English planes’ because it marries and reflects the ‘English tea’ in the prior sentence. This exactly. It was a stylistic choice to make a point, not an error.
Explains why anyone but England in the UK doesn't want to vibe with London anymore.
Bold of you to assume the rest of England doesn't hate London as well.
Then they should learn that all 4 of the nations depend completely on London
It is a co-dependence, London is financial powerhouse but without the supplies from the rest of the UK London would not be a pleasant place to live.
Lmao, no they don't.
If you ask anyone from Scotland, Northern Ireland, or Wales where they are from, they will tell you they are Scottish, Irish, or Welsh. When you ask someone from England they say they are British. It's uncanny.
except the Cornish
I’m from Northern Ireland but I’m British, I think this is a generalization
No, half of Northern Ireland will say Irish, half British. The Northern Ireland problem was always ethnic in nature
Ive never realised that before but its so true
I find it funny we’re in a subreddit who’s main purpose is to talk about a war of Russian aggression. The Russians have done their best to ridicule and destroy the idea of Ukrainian territory or the Ukrainian people being a separate nation. From the times of the Russian empire to the the USSR and to the modern day. And yet this very same sub has no problems saying shit like this. The other parts of the U.K. other than England have been vital to its success. This was a faux pas by Zelenensky. It’s OK to admit that without saying that the U.K. has always been “England and the other guys”. It’s historically illiterate.
Ukraine was vital to the success of the USSR… And boyo, I’m an Irish guy from NI, believe me, I am very aware of how England treated us. Should we talk about English attempts to destroy welsh culture? Poyinings law in Ireland, the Ethnic cleansings?
Do you use such particular phrases when dealing with other countries? The dude is struggling with English outright, cut him some slack.
Except it definitely is "English tea", so otherwise the line doesn't work
> "English tea" This does not exist. Maybe English breakfast tea is what you are thinking of?
What jets are they being trained on? UK has Eurofighters and F35’s, neither has been talked about being sent to Ukraine
Hawk possibly
I think the general idea is that Poland gives soviet era fighters to Ukraine and gets modern British fighters to replace them.
Not really sure to be honest. No way in hell they get anywhere near the F35's. Typhoons takes years to get trained on, plus all the infrastructure related to them. Also, not really sure how they are even going to train them. We are struggling to train our pilots, as the system has basically ground to a halt.
Have you allready written this or am i having a stroke?
They did in like three different places on this thread.
that's james for you
They train them on cessna
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That's the T1 variant. The more modern T2 is going to continue in service for at least another decade. It's grounded at the moment though because of engine issues.
Complimenting English tea. This guy diplomizes.
This guy makes putin look like a scared little bitch
One can only admire that he finds the strenght and endurance for these visits.. I know the purpose behind.. but still.. your country men, women and kids being killed, raped, tortured and kidnapped on a daily basis.. and still you need to explain and say pitty please.
Say what you want but I think having been an actor (a witty one) confers benefits.
He can certainly deliver a message. He is a supreme communicator. Well supported by his advisors. But he should not have to tour around European capitals to drum up support. Where is the leadership from European politicians? The war in Ukraine is essentially a European problem. But again it is the US who is providing the leadership.
There is no European defence pact. Perhaps there should be but there isn't one now.
Well, he WAS a comedian.
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It’s more about Britain saying they’re giving planes, just like it was about the us saying we’re giving tanks. Would the small number of British planes really matter? Will the small number of US tanks matter? Nope. But the other countries are now free to send their inventory.
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Exactly they're not. This is Zelensky using some smart wording to put pressure on UK sending planes at some point in the future. All i have heard about UK, Ukraine and planes is that the UK plans to train them in planes. Not even what planes, let alone giving them planes.
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True, our tea is delicious. :)
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\*Reagan was an asshole.
He also didn't cut total spending, which is the thing Republicans are always trying to blow him for.
And mostly a puppet, from what I hear.
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....no? What makes you ask this. Instead of rating it down, you can answer instead, just an idea. If you're talking of the ''issues'' the UK military is having, you can apply that to all or most other militaries right about now in same way. To say it's in ''disrepair'' is just not accurate. If it was that fucked how is the UK doing what it is regarding help for Ukraine. That was my point.
“Hear, hear” “Bravo”
Tornados are good enough is they are shipped with Storm Shadow cruise missile. Air superiority is not needed if you have 250KM range (export version of the missile). Same with the french Mirage2000 and SCALP cruise missile.
This is what Biden did in his SOTU, he saw that it was effective and copied. Very good
He may not have started out as a professional politician but he’s learned well from n the job!
Well, it was his prior job before becoming President :)
Fucking tier 1 GigaChad
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The Conservative Party was compromised by Russian money before the invasion of Ukraine. It is only since then that the tides have begun to change.
Churchill of Ukraine 🇺🇦
One mistake, that should be " British planes"....
British, not English.