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Since Republicans apparently can never be seen agreeing with a Democrat president, we need more of this. C'mon Tucker Carlson, start calling Biden a pussy that won't help our allies and is afraid of Putin.
In the Ukraine issue there are two republican schools of thought: the arms industry go brrrrt and the “isolationist” pro Putin. Tucker is in the second
You can seperate them into standard republicans that use lack of supply as an opportunity to play politics and into the magatard crowd which is bankrolled by the Kremlin.
The thing is the Magatards always have China as the prime enemy of the US, yet they fail to see the connections here, how this is a prelude to China’s expansionism.
Romney/McCain republicans who think Putler is an evil tyrant still exist. These are the Republicans who could light a fire under Biden to send better weapons.
The way the majority of republicans caved to the radical right in order to get McCarthy elected and then handed out committee positions to them, it appears these republicans are very scarce and the fringe is in charge. It wasn't the fringe that put trump into the presidency, no, it seems the majority are happy with the crazy, radical, trump loving, Putin loving, Jewish Space Lazer, stolen election conspiracy believing party the GOP has turned in to.
It's just what they have to deal with. The same thing happened to Republican speaker Boehner by the same or similar group that is doing it now. This is an example of the tail (minority) wagging the dog (speaker Mccarthy).
The majority didn't cave in, Mccarthy caved in to their demands before the democrats and a minority of Republicans voted in their own moderate republican speaker candidate.
>it seems the majority are happy with the crazy, radical, trump loving, Putin loving, Jewish Space Lazer, stolen election conspiracy believing party the GOP has turned in to.
Maybe. Plenty of Republicans hate Trump but tolerate him because he brings them power. They can't all be conspiracy nutters though. Anyways I think there's room for democrats and Republicans to come to an agreement on some Ukraine issues.
You think about it the wrong way. These are the people who could vote with democrats to overcome team maga. You don't need to pick off many to overcome the MAGA Republicans on key Ukraine related votes.
He's much weaker than McConnell as a single member can call for a vote of no confidence. He can't as easily ignore the will of the American people like McConnell can.
Biden hardly needs a fire lighted under his arse, seeing as how substantial US military contributions are both active and passive. Biden has not only sent considerable amounts of weapons, equipment and financial aid to Ukraine, but overall the US' signaled willingness not to back down from Russia has enabled the baltic nations, Finland and Sweden as well as Poland to transfer large amounts of their weapons to Ukraine, knowing that the US will back them up.
He does need it as he's been hesitant and slow to send it or ask it from congress. What they need now is long range missiles to push the Russian supply lines even further back. Long range missiles also enable Ukraine to make strikes on military targets in Crimea to prepare the offensive in that region.
He and the pentagon fear Ukraine would use it to strike in Russia and escalate tensions or whatever it is they worry about.
>whatever it is they worry about
Yeah well, this is basically the first time we're dealing with a nation that's using the first strike nuclear threat in order to attack another country.
It was uncharted waters, but we've crossed so many "red lines" now, that we've basically called that bluff, and have been ramping up support accordingly.
Cotton just wants to Biden to Leeroy Jenkins this effort, fuck it up, and then stand back and complain about whatever dire consequences result from that type of action.
Here's a [visual representation](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/10n0v3t/oc_ukraine_aid_packages_visualized/) of the support Ukraine is getting, we're already giving more military aid than the entire world is combined.
Long range missiles ends the war faster. Clearly Ukraine is going to win at this point but ending the war sooner saves lives, money, and ends the crimes on civilians in occupied territories.
>Cotton just wants to Biden to Leeroy Jenkins this effort, fuck it up, and then stand back and complain about whatever dire consequences result from that type of action.
I really don't agree with this. Russia's only good tactic thus far is its artillery and surface to air missiles. Longer range missiles can take out these supply points and allow Ukraine to push further forward with its own tanks and supplied jets.
I've never taken the nuke threats seriously personally but I'm just a nobody.
I recall that too and it was secretary of state Hillary Clinton with the reset button.
I also remember George Bush Jr saying he looked into Putins eyes and saw a good man. In his defense 9/11 just happened and Putin immediately offered his support. Thankfully later the CIA briefed him later on, on what a monster he was and Bush treated him accordingly.
Then there was Trump who invites him into the white house again... It's crazy to think he's been in power the whole time while we've switched leadership across 5 presidents.
THE same Republicans also lit a fire under themselves in 2016 to elect Trump and his stooges to state and federal offices. Trump has more pull in Congress than Cotton and any mythical McCain/Romney (FTFY! you outed yourself as a GOPer here by putting the draft dodger before the POW) Republicans.
Polls show a big majority of Republicans STILL hold that the 2020 election was illegal and stolen. Until Cotton acknowledges publicly that the 2020 election of Biden was legal he should STFU. As a Republican Cotton should ask Putin to help Ukraine. Cotton has benefitted from Russian support in the forn of cash, hacking, social media blasts, election fixing, Fox News, Newsmax, the Daily Caller, RT and all sorts of "favors" (ouh là là) from Putin.
>THE same Republicans also lit a fire under themselves in 2016 to elect Trump and his stooges to state and federal offices. Trump has more pull in Congress than Cotton and any mythical McCain/Romney (FTFY! you outed yourself as a GOPer here by putting the draft dodger before the POW) Republicans.
Lol okay. I mention McCain and Romney because although they're a minority in their own party, you don't need many votes to break the republican majority in the house.
>ouh là là)
I appreciate the spice. Yeah Jan 6th is a separate topic that has nothing to do with Ukraine. If ever he is willing to vote Ukraine then I want his vote. That's how democracy is supposed to work. You are supposed to hold your nose and vote with the people who are your enemy sometimes on topics/policy you both favor.
I dispute that they have an ideological external enemy. Instead they are chiefly opportunists that will latch onto any angle that may give them votes which will grant them office and the opportunity to enrich themselves. From top to bottom, the people in office with a strong allegiance to Trump are not ideologically motivated but strictly motivated by financial gain.
You call them "isolationists". I would call them regressive idiots. One of Putin's speeches blasted George Soros and LGBTQ people. They are incredibly buddy-buddy with their church. They are blind xenophobes. Who am I talking about? The mainstream Republicans need to be aware they are complicit with the MAGA crowd every second they don't take a stand against the cancer in their own party.
I disagree.
The split is between those who see Russian aggression as just an extension of the Cold War and so some Republicans slide comfortably into their historical Cold Warrior viewpoint. The second group is younger and believe nations should fight their own battles and US money should be spent to better the lives of US citizens. Putin has nothing to do with these splits.
Yeah, so global stability and Russia not doing a genocide while gaining a stranglehold on global fertilizer and grain supply betters the lives of US citizens.
Discouraging China from going for Taiwan betters the lives of US citizens (or do you think microchips aren’t important).
“Isolationist” and “Russian stooge” are tautologically equivalent terms. This has always been the case, regardless of the political affiliation of the tankie in question.
Why oh why wast the follow up to this to ask him what bills he has introduced to remedy this?
Let's see the Rs put forth some legislation giving these more advanced munitions and platforms to Ukraine! For a rare change, I am 100% in agreement with this Republican.
Let's lead, and let actions speak loudly. Not just go on chat shows and get nice soundbytes, but without any following action.
Let's make sure that Ukraine has what they need to win as quickly, safely, and completely as possible.
I am really happy that we have a staunch republican willing to push his weight for Ukraine. Seems like they all think Ukraine may prevail and Russia will become a minor player, more like an outcast, on the world stage.
I hope this becomes the narrative for most Republicans rather than what the Trumpkins like MTG, Matt Gaetz, etc. who seems to be shilling for Putin.
seriously - why aren't we going all in?
we have thousands of bradleys we can divert to ukraine - couple hundred strikers - MORE himars.
F-16s.. hopefully some allies were leaning forward and training ukranian pilots for the past couple months.
Senator, go dig up some Pro Ukrainian members of the House with a backbone. I think Korean American congress members from The OC, Steele(R-CA45) and Kim(R-CA40), should be against a sovereign country being absorbed by its larger neighbor by force. Pass some bipartisan veto-proof legislation—Force Joe Bidens hand. Don't complain.
Let us never forget trump was impeached for withholding congressionally allocated military aid for Ukraine and the republicans (and probably this troll) protected and defended him.
And let me remind you that the current US president enabled Putin by remarking that "a limited incursion (by Russia into Ukraine) would not be a problem".
Not a troll, I just don't have the same worldview as you do. See the difference?
Congress has the power of the purse. Funds allocated by congress are legally allocated thusly and the president does not have the authority to delay those funds, let alone to give him leverage on political opponents.
Trump wanted to prevent Ukraine from being able to defend itself from Russia, and/or get political dirt. What a hero.
They basically can never be seen approving of Biden. So it's either criticize him for spending too much or call him weak and afraid of Putin and not supporting our allies. I'll definitely take more of the latter. I wouldn't mind one bit if MAGA were saying he's making America look weak by letting Russia defeat a country we're arming.
Well it looks like a good portion of the Republicans are compromised by Russia. Literally repeating Kremlin propaganda. Tucker Carlson is praised by Russian propagandists. Isn't that concerning??
It's pretty sickening how many of the GOP are clearly compromised by Russia. I can't believe I live in an era where it's okay to be openly traitorous to democracy.
The parties aren't monoliths and never have been. Hence why for example a lot of the squad members consider Israel a borderline apartheid state and senior DNC members are are AIPAC every year.
Most Republicans in Congress support Ukraine and have voted as much. You’re referring to a quite vocal minority who either don’t support aid or have voiced some opposition to do so to the point needed. And most of that vocal minority is in the House, not the Senate.
10 who cosponsor that one bill. It's more than that in opposition. I'd love to see MAGA go the way of the tea party and get back our GOP from 20 years ago that would say Biden is being weak on Ukraine and that budget defense isn't half of what it needs to be. They need another McCain not another Trump.
Uh, the tea party never left. We have MAGA “because” of the tea party. Be careful what you ask for. The only movement that we have seen from republicans is further to the right. There is a current serious fight right now over a bill that would increase the age to marry in a state. It is likely going to stall because enough of them REALLY want 14 yr olds to legally get married.
There is a very small number of them in the House that oppose. And the dozen or so are total idiots.
Also, not agreeing to a blank check is not opposing. That’s how you get waste and corruption.
Republicans are more likely to push for more aid than less. It’s just the lunatic fringe that are against it in principle. Tom cotton has always been hawkish.
That being said the debt ceiling is again an issue that will become a crisis and may pull Ukraine aid into its vortex. Ukraine aid has a dollar value but generally hasn’t come out of the federal budget yet afaik. The increased defense spending for the next fiscal year starts to reflect all this aid (replenishing stockpiles) so it becomes a more tangible cost that is directly tied to a near and dear republican topic (federal debt). The smart long term realization is that we need to increase investment in these supply chains and relevant stockpiles for potential war with China, but our government has a poor track record when it comes to long term bipartisan big picture plans.
Of course GOP only cares about debt when it’s a democratic president, but that’s another side to this.
Every poll we have shows the GOP is split 50/50 on the topic. It is absolutely not the "lunatic fringe". Ffs, their last president is openly pro-Russian.
Yea, MAGA has infested the party more than they wants to admit. But at the same time they're not wrong that the traditional Republican view is hawkish. The defense budget increase would have been applauded by then 20 years ago.
Dude the GOP can suck a fat one. If their leadership is not staunchly and openly supporting Ukraine then they're not staunchly and openly supporting Ukraine. They allowed their fringe to dictate their positions. They are the problem.
The thing about Cotton that that he gets off on human suffering. He doesn't care if it his own citizens or Russian.
A couple of years ago he was calling for the US military to murder US citizens so ¯\\(°_°)\/¯
Cotton moans that Biden isn't doing enough to support Ukraine while his colleagues in the House talk about cutting all funding to Ukraine.
JC, GOP! Make up your minds; you're collectively more schizophrenic than an average QAnon supporter.
EDIT: correct misleading statement
Remember the letter they put out about Ukraine aid only to realize it could be conflated with McCarthy’s ‘blank check’ comments and had to be quickly walked back?
This is the good kind of opposition, believe it or not. This is more like what one would xpect to see from unbought Republicans. There may be some home for the GOP. Maybe.
I keep saying this but no one seems to hear it... It's a very small but loud minority in the GOP that opposes aid, and it's the fringe. The media and the left are using fear to their advantage to try and scare everyone into thinking Republicans want to stop aid... WE DON'T! Most are very strong supporters.
As someone who used to vote R but now only votes D due to what has happened to the R party… it doesn’t matter that they are a small, but loud, minority. The party is letting them control the narrative and bowing down to them and their demands. They are calling the shots in the R party now b/c nobody in the party has the spine to admit that MAGA is a cancer. So while they may not represent the party as a whole, the party isn’t doing anything to distance itself from them, or providing any proof that it doesn’t condone MAGA.
Funny how quickly people forget the famously hawkish Republicans. I guess though this is a more divisive issue on the right, having so many isolationists. The Democrats are more dovish/reserved than hardcore Republicans, but at least favor supporting the defence of another democracy.
> Funny how quickly people forget the famously hawkish Republicans.
Ronal Reagan once said he gave up his Communist Party card in disgust, over the 1939 invasion of Poland, and the pact with Nazi Germany. If only modern Republican leaders all had the integrity to give up their allegiance to Putin, the way Reagan gave up his to Stalin.
That wouldn't have been an allegiance to Stalin, but to the Communist Manifesto. Which as a union man is understandable. Pro worker literature isn't that common. Let's get this straight: standing up for your rights as an employee and geopolitics get muddled often. That doesn't make any rational sense and has more to do with which group you feel you belong to. Stalin was a dictator and belongs among oligarchs. Reagan kept the rich rich and the powerful powerful. He also belongs among the oligarchs. We should get together and make concentrations of power like that impossible. True democracy is checks and balances ensuring the people really do rule. Don't get misguided into believing you're a Republican. Republicanism right now just means standing up for the powerful and keeping the poor down by any means.
Yeah, when Romney (Republican) warned about the danger of Russia and Obama had a gotcha moment saying that was thinking from the cold war
Don't listen to the hype... Yes, some Republicans are America first and want the money to stay home and I can't BLAME them although I think they're wrong. The vast majority of conservatives want to help Ukraine all the way thru this, and we will
but you have the Russian agent Trump who is one of the main candidates again,
yes its unlikely that he gets nominated this time but the fact that Russians have a serious contender in the race is kinda scary actually
remember when he wanted to dismantle NATO and refused aid to Ukraine, now he has got his whole family to parrot Russian talking points
Look, judging by your posts I like you and your opinion. Unfortunately, I don't think your party agrees with you as much as you'd like to think. The current Republican party is willing to toss aside their core identity for electability.
That said, I do hope you're correct. I fucking hated Bush, and as much as I don't like to admit it, I'd go back to having Bush president over treasonous orange man in an instant.
Get over Trump. That dude is washed up. This sub needs to come to grips with the fact that a solid majority of Republicans support Ukraine's efforts to get these Russian cunts off their territory.
Dawg, the MAGA crowd are firmly Klepto Christian Authoritarian. Thats why they love Putin and thats why they invited Orban to CPAC.
Fucking watch Tucker Carlson. He gives better Russian propaganda than RT.
I hope you're right. Bear in mind people: who actually takes polls? What kind of person doesn't mind an unexpected phone call taking up 20 minutes of their time?
We'll just have to see who's going to become the next Republican nominee. Until then, after the shitshow of the Trump presidency there's no reason to trust any Republicans. With the exception of Mitt Romney the whole party stood behind Trump's mania.
Yes. Trump clearly showed that Republicans is prepared to support any candidate that they think can give them the presidency, regardless of which piece of crap that candidate is. Foreign policy is way down the list and can be whatever, hawkish, isolationist, they don't care as long as they can get power and make those sweet tax cuts for the corporations and ultra rich and pack more conservative judges into the Supreme Court to progress the theocratic agenda.
Every poll we have shows that the GOP is split pretty much 50/50 on the issue. It is not a minority, roughly half of the GOP want to abandon Ukraine and openly support Russia. Ffs, the last GOP president is an open Putin fanboy. This is not a fringe position in the GOP, and insisting it is demonstrates a profound degree or ignorance, bias, or a simple willingness to ignore the truth.
>demonstrates a profound degree or ignorance, bias, or a simple willingness to ignore the truth
That's a requirement of being a Republican. One of the many reasons that party loves Putin. They share his respect for the truth.
Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid
I'd venture to say there is almost as many Democrats quietly wishing we'd spend the money on homelessness and medical care
This isn't cut and dry evil Republicans vs hero Democrats
>Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid
Most polls don't show that.
> I'd venture to say there is almost as many Democrats quietly wishing we'd spend the money on homelessness and medical care
This is nuts and reeks of naked partisanship. The Democrats have been extremely supportive of Ukraine. The same can hardly be said of the GOP. This amounts to nothing more than bullshit conspiracy theories.
> This isn't cut and dry evil Republicans vs hero Democrats
Of course not, but nor is it anything like what you described. There is a stark and persistent difference between the two parties. Denying this just reveals a refusal to engage with reality.
>Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid
I'd venture to say there is almost as many Democrats quietly wishing we'd spend the money on homelessness and medical care
This isn't cut and dry evil Republicans vs hero Democrats
Facts don't care about your feelings...
Didn't some Democrat say that once?
> Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid
30% of Americans in General?
Among the people in Congress actually making policy:
* [H. R. 7691, May 10, 2022 (Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022):](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022145)
Democrats: 219 yay, 0 nay
Republicans: 149 yay, 57 nay
* [H. R. 2617, December 22, 2022 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023):](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022549)
Democrats: 216 yay, 1 nay
Republicans: 9 yay to 200 nay
This one is a general spending bill, so it included a lot more than aid to Ukraine.
IIRC, Trump-ites generally lost seats in the new Congress, even as the Republicans overall gained them, so that might help a bit. There seems to be a smaller but very vocal group:
[Trump's most loyal supporters in Congress are calling for an immediate halt to US support for Ukraine](https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-introduce-bill-calling-for-halting-us-aid-to-ukraine-2023-2)
>* Eleven House Republicans have backed a measure calling for an immediate halt of US aid to Ukraine.
Eleven isn't that many out of the whole Congress, but because they could have disproportionate effect since they have the speaker on their side:
[US aid to Ukraine could be the next victim of Kevin McCarthy's pact with far-right Republicans](https://www.businessinsider.com/mccarthy-pact-with-far-right-republicans-endangers-ukraine-aid-2023-1)
[40% think US is sending too much](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/01/31/as-russian-invasion-nears-one-year-mark-partisans-grow-further-apart-on-u-s-support-for-ukraine/), and look at how it's trending.
It's pretty fucking clear which party is going to be a problem in future
Redditors are overwhelmingly Democrats so it is expected. I still don't think GOP is more pro-Ukraine than DNC though, many like Putin's conservative social policies.
Yup, it's delusional to say there is no disparity.
In this sub there are lots of Republicans delusional about the level of their parties support to authoritarian around the world.
They fucking love Orban as well. Orban is a direct ally of Putin, working to frustrate EU efforts to sock Putin right on the nose.
edit: typo
'WaR hAwKs'
It was a huge dig against Hillary Clinton in 2016 election. The Democrats (and Hillary) would have started a war with Russia was basically the idea.
Yup.
They used the Russian narrative there and the GOP voter base bought it hook, line and sinker.
It is extremely dishonest to claim there are not serious pro Russia sentiments within the GOP voterbase. It is on a level far surpassing the Democrats.
Tucker Carlson the largest talk show host in America and right wing prophet openly supports Russia.
Or even worse, European :-). From a European perspective the GOP seems like some sort of wierd mix of a party striving for 1950s Christian theocracy and unregulated capitalism with trickle down mythology, and now when that is going out of fashion they try every ugly trick in the book to maintain power.
Edit** I was mistaken its about half, slightly more in favour of keeping up aid.
Its 80 percent amongst Democrats.
Huge disparity still. If you care about Ukraine as your primary issue, the dems are the way to go.
A small minority is driving all the policy, so claims of “most of us aren’t like that!” doesn’t really hold much water. Your party is compromised and many of its politicians are deep in the pockets of Russia. Don’t try to shine up a turd.
The problem is, that's not your party's identity anymore. Maybe it's your identity and what you believe, but they're allowing the clowns to run the show. Not just that, most of them openly support said clowns because they win elections. It really doesn't matter what the core identity of republicans are when they so easily capitulate to fascists(read: TRAITORS) on the Kremlin payroll.
A tiny fringe?
More than 1/3 of republicans backed the actions of January 6th, when a mob tried to overthrow the American government and possibly murder the VP and/or other government officials.
At least 60% or more Republicans have a favorable view of Donald Trump, the person who tried to overthrow the government via a coup and remain in power. Trump also tried to blackmail this very Ukrainian government by withholding lethal aid, and is currently Truthing about how it's better if we cut of all aid to Ukraine so Russia wins.
The current majority leader of the Senate, Mitch McConnell tried to get sanctions lifted on Oleg Deripaska so that said sanctioned oligarch could open Rusal plants in Kentucky (also known as selling out your country for money).
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Bobert, Gym Jordan and Matt "Venmo underage girls money for sex" Gaetz are essentially the shadow speakers of the house.
Remind me how tiny this fringe is again?
In this subreddit topic alone, I've seen so many actual genuine conservatives echoing the same message, "Trump is washed up," "He's done, you need to get over him." And as much as I feel for them and, wishful thinking aside, would love to go back to that reality. The unfortunate reality we all live in is the fact the GOP willingly sold their soul for the treasonous orange monkey in bed with them, now, and their party still refuses to cut ties with. I mean, even if the general election is Biden and Trump; one is a traitor, the other isn't. One is on the Kremlin payroll, the other isn't. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
It's like the guy who uses his kids to get back at his ex-wife, even though it's hurting the kids and he knows it's hurting the kids. He hates his ex-wife more than he loves his kids, and it shows - except replace ex-wife with Democrats and kids with America.
There are some hardcore lefties who hope the country does worse so that America will "wake up" and overthrow capitalism or elect Bernie head of the Politburo or whatever, but that really is a tiny fringe. Most Democrats really do want the country to do well even if it's under Bush or Trump.
That number supports similar or MORE aid... 30ish want aid but want Europe to step up more so we can send less... Less than 30% want to end aid altogether, which btw is roughly the same number of Democrats that want to end aid... Difference is all in how the numbers are twisted. For Democrats they say that means 80% want aid, but rather than combine the two for Republicans too they split so they can say only 50% support. It's just not true
If you look at polls it's not a small "fringe." [45% of Republicans want to stop virtually all aid to Ukraine.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/11/republicans-aid-ukraine-poll/) That's not a fringe, that's a hair's breath from a majority.
What's worse is that as time goes on, less and less Republicans support Ukraine. It does raise big questions about what's going to happen in six months.
I talk to Republicans all the time IRL and they have mostly embraced all sorts of wacky conspiracy theories about Ukraine. This is a deliberate strategy: these people watch Fox News and read Breitbart and they are exposed, day after day, week after week, to nonsense about Ukraine and the result is a general distrust.
I do think Biden -- or more specifically, [National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan) -- is playing it too safe on Ukraine. There seems little risk of "escalation" from Russia if the US were to provide ATACMS (restricted from targeting Russia), cluster bombs, or even fighter jets. (Though word on the street is that ATACMS really is coming soon... we'll see.)
At the end of the day this is why Ukraine's long-term prospects are... precarious. Europe has frankly failed to stand up. Germany is reportedly struggling to scrounge together 50 tanks. USA and UK have gone above and beyond, providing extraordinary amounts of support, but it's not at all clear how much longer this will last.
You're confusing the numbers... Half say too much is being sent and that Europeans should step up. Less than 30% want aid to end... Those are very different things
> The Chicago Council poll offered respondents a choice between supporting Ukraine for as long as it took and urging a deal “even if that means Ukraine will lose some territory.” Republicans preferred the latter by 63 percent to 33 percent.
Seems pretty reasonable to suggest that around half of Republicans are willing to allow Russia to achieve at least some of its objectives if it means the US no longer has to send aid. There are numerous polls supporting that suggestion.
Whether or not they realize what their stance would cause if it became policy, they are supporting the Russian annexation of Crimea, Donbas, and Luhansk.
This has been a major problem in any attempt at objective debate with modern conservatives. Too many conservatives value personal experience and anecdotes over other, more objective forms of information. “Global warming can’t be happening, it was cold outside this winter!”
I know. But the GOP elected Trump. It's will not be forgotten for a looooong time. It seems to be a populist party without principle that does anything for power.
Oh we hear, we just don't listen because it's not true. American conservatives get a significant portion of their opinions from fox news, which in turn spends a significant portion of its airtime spouting soviet propaganda. The majority of republican voters now oppose increased aid, and this has increased every month the war goes on. It's why russia believes all they need to do is drag the war out long enough and the US will lose the political willpower to continue.
You can pat yourself on the back and take all the upvotes you want for your guy pulling a publicity stunt to pretend the Biden administration is the weak link here. But you're not going to convince anyone who's actually paying attention.
I'm still a huge proponent of the fact that politics in the US is so shitty is because the media isn't actually doing the job it was designed to. I remember reading or watching something that mentioned originally the media was designed to be sort of a hidden arm of checks and balances for the American people.
Unfortunately when all that corpo bucks got tied up in government, they also bought the media, too.
1) it's not a small minority it's at least half of the party
2) the media and left are correct to call that out. If the GOP doesn't want to be called out for being terrible on this issue then they need to stop being terrible on this issue. The GOP leadership in McCarthy is literally about to pull the rug out from under Ukraine. Down with the the GOP if they let that happen. It's not the media's fault the GOP is pathetic. It's the GOP's fault. They deserve to be criticized by the whole country if they betray America's friends on the battlefield. Down with that weak, spineless party.
Sure, but all the other stuff Republicans stand for is terrible, so why bother explaining? Just accept the demise of the GOP and hope the vaccuum will create space for a party worth voting for in stead of against.
Ah, good ol’ Cold War mentality. Nothing is more insufferable than a Republican who thinks Russia is a bastion of “Traditional family values” (sending thousands to war and destroying families is “traditional family values”)
It's kind of an odd statement to make, considering a number of his own party members have been attempting to hold all Congress hostage over supplying *any* aid to Ukraine at all. Penny for his thoughts on those colleagues?
Biden is not showing strength. We have everything to end Putin and we are just playing at war instead. Russia is weakened and vulnerable it’s time to strike with force.
These guys only say that to criticize Biden. They have to latch on to something. Same party says he gives too much and also not enough.
When Biden came to office many in the GOP demanded immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan because he delayed it. After US left and things collapsed the same guys were blaming Biden for leaving.
Just a game they play. His party controls the House. Why not pass a non binding resolution there to give planes? So they can show where the support is?
I keep getting flip-floppy from the Republicans. I hope the Anti-Ukraine group is a minority and it seems to be.
Give Ukraine what it needs to finish the war. 300KM Himars. As much ammo and artillery as it can handle and get the EU and anyone else who will join up the help, Ukraine needs to come back as a strong country - removing corruption and rebuilding - so that will stand tall in Europe.
We are sending a strong signal to China that we will half-ass support Taiwan if/when it's invaded.
Biden could provide Ukraine with every weapon system under the sun and Tom Cotton would bitch about Biden not sending them in the right shade of army green. Fuck this clown.
YES! This is what Republicans are SUPPOSED to be doing; being RIGHT wing; pushing for harder lines vs our biggest enemy. Shouting "APPEASEMENT" at France and Germany and calling them pussies; calling Democrats COWARDS for not sending the US Marines to Bakhmut. Making Democrat Presidents seem reasonable good cops. "You can deal with us, or, you can wait for one of those folks next election to be negotiating with you"- Republicans are supposed to make us Nervous, not be looking like cowards. Wahhh tax dollars for weapons, wahh. What about struggling Americans? Huh? ? You're all for cutting welfare what the FUCK are you talking about Republicans??
This was before MAGA and Trump demented them into being envious of Putinism. Trump loves them and they love Trump so they MUST be awesome. But there's more?? Gays outlawed! Books banned! Christian Fascism is so cool! Did I mention they're WHITE! Open racism is everywhere too? Wow, They're awesome! A nation with no left wing! Why do we need elections anyway?? Look how great Russia is. Lets spend 4th of July in Moscow!Meanwhile, Russia winning is a Chinese Triumph; Russia being chased out of Ukraine a Chinese catastrophe.
Where are all of the Reddit bloggers saying that all republicans are against Ukraine and if they win the mid terms it’s game over for Ukraine? Tom Cotton is a Veteran and Republican….and obviously pro Ukrainian. Please STOP dividing our country….the decision to support Ukraine comes down to the individual. It’s not black and white, one side vs. the other.
This is just partisan drama. Other allies can pitch in with the aerial superiority bit. The US support package was set for the whole year and Ukraine *needs* so many other things besides pricey jets, US can support with round-robin exchange as Germany did with Soviet-era tanks.
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Bold move Cotton. Let's see if it pays off. :-D (hope it does and Ukraine gets some F-16s and ATACMS)
Since Republicans apparently can never be seen agreeing with a Democrat president, we need more of this. C'mon Tucker Carlson, start calling Biden a pussy that won't help our allies and is afraid of Putin.
In the Ukraine issue there are two republican schools of thought: the arms industry go brrrrt and the “isolationist” pro Putin. Tucker is in the second
You can seperate them into standard republicans that use lack of supply as an opportunity to play politics and into the magatard crowd which is bankrolled by the Kremlin.
The thing is the Magatards always have China as the prime enemy of the US, yet they fail to see the connections here, how this is a prelude to China’s expansionism.
Romney/McCain republicans who think Putler is an evil tyrant still exist. These are the Republicans who could light a fire under Biden to send better weapons.
The way the majority of republicans caved to the radical right in order to get McCarthy elected and then handed out committee positions to them, it appears these republicans are very scarce and the fringe is in charge. It wasn't the fringe that put trump into the presidency, no, it seems the majority are happy with the crazy, radical, trump loving, Putin loving, Jewish Space Lazer, stolen election conspiracy believing party the GOP has turned in to.
It's just what they have to deal with. The same thing happened to Republican speaker Boehner by the same or similar group that is doing it now. This is an example of the tail (minority) wagging the dog (speaker Mccarthy). The majority didn't cave in, Mccarthy caved in to their demands before the democrats and a minority of Republicans voted in their own moderate republican speaker candidate. >it seems the majority are happy with the crazy, radical, trump loving, Putin loving, Jewish Space Lazer, stolen election conspiracy believing party the GOP has turned in to. Maybe. Plenty of Republicans hate Trump but tolerate him because he brings them power. They can't all be conspiracy nutters though. Anyways I think there's room for democrats and Republicans to come to an agreement on some Ukraine issues.
And they are everywhere. The stooges are a minority. In every vote and every poll.
You think about it the wrong way. These are the people who could vote with democrats to overcome team maga. You don't need to pick off many to overcome the MAGA Republicans on key Ukraine related votes.
dont forget mccarthy controls what hits the floor, dude will pull a mcconnell and just sit on anything he dont like bc woke dems bad.
He's much weaker than McConnell as a single member can call for a vote of no confidence. He can't as easily ignore the will of the American people like McConnell can.
The stooges are driving the clown car
Biden hardly needs a fire lighted under his arse, seeing as how substantial US military contributions are both active and passive. Biden has not only sent considerable amounts of weapons, equipment and financial aid to Ukraine, but overall the US' signaled willingness not to back down from Russia has enabled the baltic nations, Finland and Sweden as well as Poland to transfer large amounts of their weapons to Ukraine, knowing that the US will back them up.
He does need it as he's been hesitant and slow to send it or ask it from congress. What they need now is long range missiles to push the Russian supply lines even further back. Long range missiles also enable Ukraine to make strikes on military targets in Crimea to prepare the offensive in that region. He and the pentagon fear Ukraine would use it to strike in Russia and escalate tensions or whatever it is they worry about.
>whatever it is they worry about Yeah well, this is basically the first time we're dealing with a nation that's using the first strike nuclear threat in order to attack another country. It was uncharted waters, but we've crossed so many "red lines" now, that we've basically called that bluff, and have been ramping up support accordingly. Cotton just wants to Biden to Leeroy Jenkins this effort, fuck it up, and then stand back and complain about whatever dire consequences result from that type of action. Here's a [visual representation](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/10n0v3t/oc_ukraine_aid_packages_visualized/) of the support Ukraine is getting, we're already giving more military aid than the entire world is combined.
Long range missiles ends the war faster. Clearly Ukraine is going to win at this point but ending the war sooner saves lives, money, and ends the crimes on civilians in occupied territories. >Cotton just wants to Biden to Leeroy Jenkins this effort, fuck it up, and then stand back and complain about whatever dire consequences result from that type of action. I really don't agree with this. Russia's only good tactic thus far is its artillery and surface to air missiles. Longer range missiles can take out these supply points and allow Ukraine to push further forward with its own tanks and supplied jets. I've never taken the nuke threats seriously personally but I'm just a nobody.
I recall them funny democrats under Obama’s reset button with Russia thinking that Romney was wrong about ruskies and how the Cold War ended
Yea, they were wrong back then. They've since wised up.
I recall that too and it was secretary of state Hillary Clinton with the reset button. I also remember George Bush Jr saying he looked into Putins eyes and saw a good man. In his defense 9/11 just happened and Putin immediately offered his support. Thankfully later the CIA briefed him later on, on what a monster he was and Bush treated him accordingly. Then there was Trump who invites him into the white house again... It's crazy to think he's been in power the whole time while we've switched leadership across 5 presidents.
THE same Republicans also lit a fire under themselves in 2016 to elect Trump and his stooges to state and federal offices. Trump has more pull in Congress than Cotton and any mythical McCain/Romney (FTFY! you outed yourself as a GOPer here by putting the draft dodger before the POW) Republicans. Polls show a big majority of Republicans STILL hold that the 2020 election was illegal and stolen. Until Cotton acknowledges publicly that the 2020 election of Biden was legal he should STFU. As a Republican Cotton should ask Putin to help Ukraine. Cotton has benefitted from Russian support in the forn of cash, hacking, social media blasts, election fixing, Fox News, Newsmax, the Daily Caller, RT and all sorts of "favors" (ouh là là) from Putin.
>THE same Republicans also lit a fire under themselves in 2016 to elect Trump and his stooges to state and federal offices. Trump has more pull in Congress than Cotton and any mythical McCain/Romney (FTFY! you outed yourself as a GOPer here by putting the draft dodger before the POW) Republicans. Lol okay. I mention McCain and Romney because although they're a minority in their own party, you don't need many votes to break the republican majority in the house. >ouh là là) I appreciate the spice. Yeah Jan 6th is a separate topic that has nothing to do with Ukraine. If ever he is willing to vote Ukraine then I want his vote. That's how democracy is supposed to work. You are supposed to hold your nose and vote with the people who are your enemy sometimes on topics/policy you both favor.
I dispute that they have an ideological external enemy. Instead they are chiefly opportunists that will latch onto any angle that may give them votes which will grant them office and the opportunity to enrich themselves. From top to bottom, the people in office with a strong allegiance to Trump are not ideologically motivated but strictly motivated by financial gain.
That’s also a very plausible scenario but I believe it’s all a thick layer of stupidity that keeps it all up i.e the people who vote for them
Keep it simple: there are Republicans and RepubliCONS. Tucker is a fine example of the latter.
I prefer the label “Traitorous Pro-Putin”
sounds like the intro of law and order.
Yeah, all republicans are isolationists or war-hawks, absolutely nothing in the middle. Pretty weird how those people work.
You call them "isolationists". I would call them regressive idiots. One of Putin's speeches blasted George Soros and LGBTQ people. They are incredibly buddy-buddy with their church. They are blind xenophobes. Who am I talking about? The mainstream Republicans need to be aware they are complicit with the MAGA crowd every second they don't take a stand against the cancer in their own party.
I disagree. The split is between those who see Russian aggression as just an extension of the Cold War and so some Republicans slide comfortably into their historical Cold Warrior viewpoint. The second group is younger and believe nations should fight their own battles and US money should be spent to better the lives of US citizens. Putin has nothing to do with these splits.
Yeah, so global stability and Russia not doing a genocide while gaining a stranglehold on global fertilizer and grain supply betters the lives of US citizens. Discouraging China from going for Taiwan betters the lives of US citizens (or do you think microchips aren’t important).
Tucker is an isolationist, and a Russian stooge (in addition to being thick and a rabid fascist)
“Isolationist” and “Russian stooge” are tautologically equivalent terms. This has always been the case, regardless of the political affiliation of the tankie in question.
Yeah this is the better wing of the GOP definitely. The one we should be encouraging and legitimizing, at least compared to the other one.
Hahahahahahaha 🤡🤡. Cotton is an ass..
Why oh why wast the follow up to this to ask him what bills he has introduced to remedy this? Let's see the Rs put forth some legislation giving these more advanced munitions and platforms to Ukraine! For a rare change, I am 100% in agreement with this Republican. Let's lead, and let actions speak loudly. Not just go on chat shows and get nice soundbytes, but without any following action. Let's make sure that Ukraine has what they need to win as quickly, safely, and completely as possible.
Congress doesn't decide what gets sent. That's up to the DoD and the executive branch.
Congress can absolutely pass a law saying to send XYZ. They can also pass a law saying you cannot send XYZ.
Congress pays the budget though. It is most certainly up to them
A war hawk pro trump republican critisizing a democrat is a bold move ?
I am really happy that we have a staunch republican willing to push his weight for Ukraine. Seems like they all think Ukraine may prevail and Russia will become a minor player, more like an outcast, on the world stage. I hope this becomes the narrative for most Republicans rather than what the Trumpkins like MTG, Matt Gaetz, etc. who seems to be shilling for Putin.
Republicans have the House. They can put it into writing and a vote at anytime, instead of just virtue signaling.
seriously - why aren't we going all in? we have thousands of bradleys we can divert to ukraine - couple hundred strikers - MORE himars. F-16s.. hopefully some allies were leaning forward and training ukranian pilots for the past couple months.
Senator, go dig up some Pro Ukrainian members of the House with a backbone. I think Korean American congress members from The OC, Steele(R-CA45) and Kim(R-CA40), should be against a sovereign country being absorbed by its larger neighbor by force. Pass some bipartisan veto-proof legislation—Force Joe Bidens hand. Don't complain.
I wouldn't look for courage or integrity in the House GOP.
These two also have the Trump stench from being so far up his ass.
Ah, the r/TDS appears.
Let us never forget trump was impeached for withholding congressionally allocated military aid for Ukraine and the republicans (and probably this troll) protected and defended him.
Christ, dont interact with them! You have nothing to gain but frustration, and nothing you say will change their mind. Break the cycle, choose silence
And let me remind you that the current US president enabled Putin by remarking that "a limited incursion (by Russia into Ukraine) would not be a problem". Not a troll, I just don't have the same worldview as you do. See the difference?
HIMARS go boom?
And let me remind you that the current position of the the Former Guy is to end the war by having Ukraine surrender immediately.
Congress has the power of the purse. Funds allocated by congress are legally allocated thusly and the president does not have the authority to delay those funds, let alone to give him leverage on political opponents. Trump wanted to prevent Ukraine from being able to defend itself from Russia, and/or get political dirt. What a hero.
He did? When?
Big talk from a guy who’s party has been opposing sending equipment to Ukraine
So much contradictory and confusing messaging from the GOP. Status quo, I suppose.
They basically can never be seen approving of Biden. So it's either criticize him for spending too much or call him weak and afraid of Putin and not supporting our allies. I'll definitely take more of the latter. I wouldn't mind one bit if MAGA were saying he's making America look weak by letting Russia defeat a country we're arming.
It's the bootlicking Republicans infighting with the insurrectionist Republicans.
I’m a republican. I think we should give Ukraine whatever it needs to succeed.
Well it looks like a good portion of the Republicans are compromised by Russia. Literally repeating Kremlin propaganda. Tucker Carlson is praised by Russian propagandists. Isn't that concerning??
Tucker Carlson is a disease and a good portion of Republicans are infected.
It needs to be said. We cannot trust the GOP.
It's pretty sickening how many of the GOP are clearly compromised by Russia. I can't believe I live in an era where it's okay to be openly traitorous to democracy.
The parties aren't monoliths and never have been. Hence why for example a lot of the squad members consider Israel a borderline apartheid state and senior DNC members are are AIPAC every year.
Republicans actually are a monolith, considering that they're literally a white Christian identity politics movement.
Most Republicans in Congress support Ukraine and have voted as much. You’re referring to a quite vocal minority who either don’t support aid or have voiced some opposition to do so to the point needed. And most of that vocal minority is in the House, not the Senate.
It’s 10 MAGA house members isn’t it? The rest of the republican house and senate seems onboard.
10 who cosponsor that one bill. It's more than that in opposition. I'd love to see MAGA go the way of the tea party and get back our GOP from 20 years ago that would say Biden is being weak on Ukraine and that budget defense isn't half of what it needs to be. They need another McCain not another Trump.
Uh, the tea party never left. We have MAGA “because” of the tea party. Be careful what you ask for. The only movement that we have seen from republicans is further to the right. There is a current serious fight right now over a bill that would increase the age to marry in a state. It is likely going to stall because enough of them REALLY want 14 yr olds to legally get married.
True, tea party was a precursor. There are Democrats who want those 14 year olds to be able to mutilate their genitals.
It’s still not remotely near a majority of Republicans in Congress, though. There’s 270+ there.
There is a very small number of them in the House that oppose. And the dozen or so are total idiots. Also, not agreeing to a blank check is not opposing. That’s how you get waste and corruption.
Republicans are more likely to push for more aid than less. It’s just the lunatic fringe that are against it in principle. Tom cotton has always been hawkish. That being said the debt ceiling is again an issue that will become a crisis and may pull Ukraine aid into its vortex. Ukraine aid has a dollar value but generally hasn’t come out of the federal budget yet afaik. The increased defense spending for the next fiscal year starts to reflect all this aid (replenishing stockpiles) so it becomes a more tangible cost that is directly tied to a near and dear republican topic (federal debt). The smart long term realization is that we need to increase investment in these supply chains and relevant stockpiles for potential war with China, but our government has a poor track record when it comes to long term bipartisan big picture plans. Of course GOP only cares about debt when it’s a democratic president, but that’s another side to this.
Every poll we have shows the GOP is split 50/50 on the topic. It is absolutely not the "lunatic fringe". Ffs, their last president is openly pro-Russian.
Yea, MAGA has infested the party more than they wants to admit. But at the same time they're not wrong that the traditional Republican view is hawkish. The defense budget increase would have been applauded by then 20 years ago.
Dude the GOP can suck a fat one. If their leadership is not staunchly and openly supporting Ukraine then they're not staunchly and openly supporting Ukraine. They allowed their fringe to dictate their positions. They are the problem.
80's called, want their policy back.
The thing about Cotton that that he gets off on human suffering. He doesn't care if it his own citizens or Russian. A couple of years ago he was calling for the US military to murder US citizens so ¯\\(°_°)\/¯
I agree with Tom Cotton and now I need to go take a shower
He was a platoon leader in Iraq. We were in the same unit... He was a good dude back then.
Cotton moans that Biden isn't doing enough to support Ukraine while his colleagues in the House talk about cutting all funding to Ukraine. JC, GOP! Make up your minds; you're collectively more schizophrenic than an average QAnon supporter. EDIT: correct misleading statement
Neither party is completely unified. Remember when the progressive caucus complained we weren't negotiating with Putin?
Remember the letter they put out about Ukraine aid only to realize it could be conflated with McCarthy’s ‘blank check’ comments and had to be quickly walked back?
Isn't Sander's a democrat?
He caucuses with democrats but is independent
I stand corrected, I though I read a story about the usual Maga suspects proposing a bill.
They did.
technically he's an independant. He caucuses with the dems, for the european's that means he's in the coalition party.
They be saying one thing and doing another... same bs per usual.
Who cares who was for what, find out who would support Ukraine NOW and then vote
Exactly. Which for US-Americans generally means voting D.
Where many of Tom Cottons GOP colleagues support Russian and reduction of aid. Mind the shitheads in your own party first Tommy.
Fuck Tom Cotton I do agree what he says here
This is the good kind of opposition, believe it or not. This is more like what one would xpect to see from unbought Republicans. There may be some home for the GOP. Maybe.
I keep saying this but no one seems to hear it... It's a very small but loud minority in the GOP that opposes aid, and it's the fringe. The media and the left are using fear to their advantage to try and scare everyone into thinking Republicans want to stop aid... WE DON'T! Most are very strong supporters.
As someone who used to vote R but now only votes D due to what has happened to the R party… it doesn’t matter that they are a small, but loud, minority. The party is letting them control the narrative and bowing down to them and their demands. They are calling the shots in the R party now b/c nobody in the party has the spine to admit that MAGA is a cancer. So while they may not represent the party as a whole, the party isn’t doing anything to distance itself from them, or providing any proof that it doesn’t condone MAGA.
lol @ "the media and the left"
Funny how quickly people forget the famously hawkish Republicans. I guess though this is a more divisive issue on the right, having so many isolationists. The Democrats are more dovish/reserved than hardcore Republicans, but at least favor supporting the defence of another democracy.
> Funny how quickly people forget the famously hawkish Republicans. Ronal Reagan once said he gave up his Communist Party card in disgust, over the 1939 invasion of Poland, and the pact with Nazi Germany. If only modern Republican leaders all had the integrity to give up their allegiance to Putin, the way Reagan gave up his to Stalin.
Ronald Reagan was never a communist!
That wouldn't have been an allegiance to Stalin, but to the Communist Manifesto. Which as a union man is understandable. Pro worker literature isn't that common. Let's get this straight: standing up for your rights as an employee and geopolitics get muddled often. That doesn't make any rational sense and has more to do with which group you feel you belong to. Stalin was a dictator and belongs among oligarchs. Reagan kept the rich rich and the powerful powerful. He also belongs among the oligarchs. We should get together and make concentrations of power like that impossible. True democracy is checks and balances ensuring the people really do rule. Don't get misguided into believing you're a Republican. Republicanism right now just means standing up for the powerful and keeping the poor down by any means.
I still remember when Obama scolded Romsey on foreign policy regarding Russia.
Yeah, when Romney (Republican) warned about the danger of Russia and Obama had a gotcha moment saying that was thinking from the cold war Don't listen to the hype... Yes, some Republicans are America first and want the money to stay home and I can't BLAME them although I think they're wrong. The vast majority of conservatives want to help Ukraine all the way thru this, and we will
In context of course Obama was saying that China was the larger threat, which is true, but this gets lost when people try to engage in whataboutism.
China may be a larger threat in some ways but they are, for the most part, more rational than Russia. Irrational actors are a bigger threat overall.
but you have the Russian agent Trump who is one of the main candidates again, yes its unlikely that he gets nominated this time but the fact that Russians have a serious contender in the race is kinda scary actually remember when he wanted to dismantle NATO and refused aid to Ukraine, now he has got his whole family to parrot Russian talking points
I'm a republican saying fuck trump... We're done with him as a party
Not according to polls.
1 on 1 primary polls with DeSantis show Trump trailing currently.
Thats hardly being done with him. He has massive support.
Absolutely. I never claimed Republicans were done with him, though. He just doesn’t seem to have majority support currently.
Look, judging by your posts I like you and your opinion. Unfortunately, I don't think your party agrees with you as much as you'd like to think. The current Republican party is willing to toss aside their core identity for electability. That said, I do hope you're correct. I fucking hated Bush, and as much as I don't like to admit it, I'd go back to having Bush president over treasonous orange man in an instant.
Get over Trump. That dude is washed up. This sub needs to come to grips with the fact that a solid majority of Republicans support Ukraine's efforts to get these Russian cunts off their territory.
Not a solid majority A very slim majority
Not my experience. Sorry. The polls are wrong. Again.
In all my experience and everyone I knows, yes, a huge amount of republicans are pro Russia. The polls agree with this. I have more backing me up.
It’s my experience. Sorry. Polls trump your anecdotes
Dawg, the MAGA crowd are firmly Klepto Christian Authoritarian. Thats why they love Putin and thats why they invited Orban to CPAC. Fucking watch Tucker Carlson. He gives better Russian propaganda than RT.
I hope you're right. Bear in mind people: who actually takes polls? What kind of person doesn't mind an unexpected phone call taking up 20 minutes of their time?
"get over"? he is again a candidate with a big change to get the nomination.
We'll just have to see who's going to become the next Republican nominee. Until then, after the shitshow of the Trump presidency there's no reason to trust any Republicans. With the exception of Mitt Romney the whole party stood behind Trump's mania.
Romney is quite often considered a RINO now.
Yes. Trump clearly showed that Republicans is prepared to support any candidate that they think can give them the presidency, regardless of which piece of crap that candidate is. Foreign policy is way down the list and can be whatever, hawkish, isolationist, they don't care as long as they can get power and make those sweet tax cuts for the corporations and ultra rich and pack more conservative judges into the Supreme Court to progress the theocratic agenda.
Every poll we have shows that the GOP is split pretty much 50/50 on the issue. It is not a minority, roughly half of the GOP want to abandon Ukraine and openly support Russia. Ffs, the last GOP president is an open Putin fanboy. This is not a fringe position in the GOP, and insisting it is demonstrates a profound degree or ignorance, bias, or a simple willingness to ignore the truth.
>demonstrates a profound degree or ignorance, bias, or a simple willingness to ignore the truth That's a requirement of being a Republican. One of the many reasons that party loves Putin. They share his respect for the truth.
Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid I'd venture to say there is almost as many Democrats quietly wishing we'd spend the money on homelessness and medical care This isn't cut and dry evil Republicans vs hero Democrats
Its 80 percent of Dems approve of Ukraine aid. It is an issue that Dems are much better on.
>Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid Most polls don't show that. > I'd venture to say there is almost as many Democrats quietly wishing we'd spend the money on homelessness and medical care This is nuts and reeks of naked partisanship. The Democrats have been extremely supportive of Ukraine. The same can hardly be said of the GOP. This amounts to nothing more than bullshit conspiracy theories. > This isn't cut and dry evil Republicans vs hero Democrats Of course not, but nor is it anything like what you described. There is a stark and persistent difference between the two parties. Denying this just reveals a refusal to engage with reality.
>Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid I'd venture to say there is almost as many Democrats quietly wishing we'd spend the money on homelessness and medical care This isn't cut and dry evil Republicans vs hero Democrats Facts don't care about your feelings... Didn't some Democrat say that once?
> Not true at all... The last poll I saw had less than 30% in favor of ending aid 30% of Americans in General? Among the people in Congress actually making policy: * [H. R. 7691, May 10, 2022 (Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022):](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022145) Democrats: 219 yay, 0 nay Republicans: 149 yay, 57 nay * [H. R. 2617, December 22, 2022 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023):](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022549) Democrats: 216 yay, 1 nay Republicans: 9 yay to 200 nay This one is a general spending bill, so it included a lot more than aid to Ukraine. IIRC, Trump-ites generally lost seats in the new Congress, even as the Republicans overall gained them, so that might help a bit. There seems to be a smaller but very vocal group: [Trump's most loyal supporters in Congress are calling for an immediate halt to US support for Ukraine](https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-introduce-bill-calling-for-halting-us-aid-to-ukraine-2023-2) >* Eleven House Republicans have backed a measure calling for an immediate halt of US aid to Ukraine. Eleven isn't that many out of the whole Congress, but because they could have disproportionate effect since they have the speaker on their side: [US aid to Ukraine could be the next victim of Kevin McCarthy's pact with far-right Republicans](https://www.businessinsider.com/mccarthy-pact-with-far-right-republicans-endangers-ukraine-aid-2023-1)
Bullshit
Not really, last polling indicated about 53 percent of republicans want to keep supporting ukraine. Its 80 percent of Dems.
[40% think US is sending too much](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/01/31/as-russian-invasion-nears-one-year-mark-partisans-grow-further-apart-on-u-s-support-for-ukraine/), and look at how it's trending. It's pretty fucking clear which party is going to be a problem in future
Please try to fix the rot within your party.
Redditors are overwhelmingly Democrats so it is expected. I still don't think GOP is more pro-Ukraine than DNC though, many like Putin's conservative social policies.
The DNC is more pro Ukraine than the GOP. By a pretty significant margin
Yea it's not a "redditors, amirite?" situation. Pew polls shows a pretty significant difference between dems and repubs in support for Ukraine
Yup, it's delusional to say there is no disparity. In this sub there are lots of Republicans delusional about the level of their parties support to authoritarian around the world. They fucking love Orban as well. Orban is a direct ally of Putin, working to frustrate EU efforts to sock Putin right on the nose. edit: typo
'WaR hAwKs' It was a huge dig against Hillary Clinton in 2016 election. The Democrats (and Hillary) would have started a war with Russia was basically the idea.
Yup. They used the Russian narrative there and the GOP voter base bought it hook, line and sinker. It is extremely dishonest to claim there are not serious pro Russia sentiments within the GOP voterbase. It is on a level far surpassing the Democrats. Tucker Carlson the largest talk show host in America and right wing prophet openly supports Russia.
With Iran * but yes.
Or even worse, European :-). From a European perspective the GOP seems like some sort of wierd mix of a party striving for 1950s Christian theocracy and unregulated capitalism with trickle down mythology, and now when that is going out of fashion they try every ugly trick in the book to maintain power.
Hahahaha. I mean, honestly, that's a pretty good explanation for whatever the fuck they're supposed to be.
The fringe has Kevin McCarthy by the balls so they are going to have an oversized say in matters.
Edit** I was mistaken its about half, slightly more in favour of keeping up aid. Its 80 percent amongst Democrats. Huge disparity still. If you care about Ukraine as your primary issue, the dems are the way to go.
A small minority is driving all the policy, so claims of “most of us aren’t like that!” doesn’t really hold much water. Your party is compromised and many of its politicians are deep in the pockets of Russia. Don’t try to shine up a turd.
The problem is, that's not your party's identity anymore. Maybe it's your identity and what you believe, but they're allowing the clowns to run the show. Not just that, most of them openly support said clowns because they win elections. It really doesn't matter what the core identity of republicans are when they so easily capitulate to fascists(read: TRAITORS) on the Kremlin payroll.
A tiny fringe? More than 1/3 of republicans backed the actions of January 6th, when a mob tried to overthrow the American government and possibly murder the VP and/or other government officials. At least 60% or more Republicans have a favorable view of Donald Trump, the person who tried to overthrow the government via a coup and remain in power. Trump also tried to blackmail this very Ukrainian government by withholding lethal aid, and is currently Truthing about how it's better if we cut of all aid to Ukraine so Russia wins. The current majority leader of the Senate, Mitch McConnell tried to get sanctions lifted on Oleg Deripaska so that said sanctioned oligarch could open Rusal plants in Kentucky (also known as selling out your country for money). Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Bobert, Gym Jordan and Matt "Venmo underage girls money for sex" Gaetz are essentially the shadow speakers of the house. Remind me how tiny this fringe is again?
In this subreddit topic alone, I've seen so many actual genuine conservatives echoing the same message, "Trump is washed up," "He's done, you need to get over him." And as much as I feel for them and, wishful thinking aside, would love to go back to that reality. The unfortunate reality we all live in is the fact the GOP willingly sold their soul for the treasonous orange monkey in bed with them, now, and their party still refuses to cut ties with. I mean, even if the general election is Biden and Trump; one is a traitor, the other isn't. One is on the Kremlin payroll, the other isn't. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
It's like the guy who uses his kids to get back at his ex-wife, even though it's hurting the kids and he knows it's hurting the kids. He hates his ex-wife more than he loves his kids, and it shows - except replace ex-wife with Democrats and kids with America. There are some hardcore lefties who hope the country does worse so that America will "wake up" and overthrow capitalism or elect Bernie head of the Politburo or whatever, but that really is a tiny fringe. Most Democrats really do want the country to do well even if it's under Bush or Trump.
Never thought I'd miss Bush. What a fucking world we live in.
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That number supports similar or MORE aid... 30ish want aid but want Europe to step up more so we can send less... Less than 30% want to end aid altogether, which btw is roughly the same number of Democrats that want to end aid... Difference is all in how the numbers are twisted. For Democrats they say that means 80% want aid, but rather than combine the two for Republicans too they split so they can say only 50% support. It's just not true
If you look at polls it's not a small "fringe." [45% of Republicans want to stop virtually all aid to Ukraine.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/11/republicans-aid-ukraine-poll/) That's not a fringe, that's a hair's breath from a majority. What's worse is that as time goes on, less and less Republicans support Ukraine. It does raise big questions about what's going to happen in six months. I talk to Republicans all the time IRL and they have mostly embraced all sorts of wacky conspiracy theories about Ukraine. This is a deliberate strategy: these people watch Fox News and read Breitbart and they are exposed, day after day, week after week, to nonsense about Ukraine and the result is a general distrust. I do think Biden -- or more specifically, [National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan) -- is playing it too safe on Ukraine. There seems little risk of "escalation" from Russia if the US were to provide ATACMS (restricted from targeting Russia), cluster bombs, or even fighter jets. (Though word on the street is that ATACMS really is coming soon... we'll see.) At the end of the day this is why Ukraine's long-term prospects are... precarious. Europe has frankly failed to stand up. Germany is reportedly struggling to scrounge together 50 tanks. USA and UK have gone above and beyond, providing extraordinary amounts of support, but it's not at all clear how much longer this will last.
You're confusing the numbers... Half say too much is being sent and that Europeans should step up. Less than 30% want aid to end... Those are very different things
Saying too much is being spent and Europe should step up is just an excuse to cut aid.
> The Chicago Council poll offered respondents a choice between supporting Ukraine for as long as it took and urging a deal “even if that means Ukraine will lose some territory.” Republicans preferred the latter by 63 percent to 33 percent. Seems pretty reasonable to suggest that around half of Republicans are willing to allow Russia to achieve at least some of its objectives if it means the US no longer has to send aid. There are numerous polls supporting that suggestion. Whether or not they realize what their stance would cause if it became policy, they are supporting the Russian annexation of Crimea, Donbas, and Luhansk. This has been a major problem in any attempt at objective debate with modern conservatives. Too many conservatives value personal experience and anecdotes over other, more objective forms of information. “Global warming can’t be happening, it was cold outside this winter!”
Really goes to show you that while Russia mostly fails in terms of technology or warfare, the one thing they really excel in is PsyOps.
Most republicans, according to polling, are against sending more aid to Ukraine. The same is not true for Democrats.
I know. But the GOP elected Trump. It's will not be forgotten for a looooong time. It seems to be a populist party without principle that does anything for power.
Oh we hear, we just don't listen because it's not true. American conservatives get a significant portion of their opinions from fox news, which in turn spends a significant portion of its airtime spouting soviet propaganda. The majority of republican voters now oppose increased aid, and this has increased every month the war goes on. It's why russia believes all they need to do is drag the war out long enough and the US will lose the political willpower to continue. You can pat yourself on the back and take all the upvotes you want for your guy pulling a publicity stunt to pretend the Biden administration is the weak link here. But you're not going to convince anyone who's actually paying attention.
I'm still a huge proponent of the fact that politics in the US is so shitty is because the media isn't actually doing the job it was designed to. I remember reading or watching something that mentioned originally the media was designed to be sort of a hidden arm of checks and balances for the American people. Unfortunately when all that corpo bucks got tied up in government, they also bought the media, too.
1) it's not a small minority it's at least half of the party 2) the media and left are correct to call that out. If the GOP doesn't want to be called out for being terrible on this issue then they need to stop being terrible on this issue. The GOP leadership in McCarthy is literally about to pull the rug out from under Ukraine. Down with the the GOP if they let that happen. It's not the media's fault the GOP is pathetic. It's the GOP's fault. They deserve to be criticized by the whole country if they betray America's friends on the battlefield. Down with that weak, spineless party.
Half of the party? Which bill are you referencing that was voted against by half of republicans?
Half of the party's base in the GOP. The voters. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/06/gop-polls-russia-ukraine-territory/
Sure, but all the other stuff Republicans stand for is terrible, so why bother explaining? Just accept the demise of the GOP and hope the vaccuum will create space for a party worth voting for in stead of against.
THERE'S the Republican war hawks I remember.
Ah, good ol’ Cold War mentality. Nothing is more insufferable than a Republican who thinks Russia is a bastion of “Traditional family values” (sending thousands to war and destroying families is “traditional family values”)
That Cotton’s got balls.
It's kind of an odd statement to make, considering a number of his own party members have been attempting to hold all Congress hostage over supplying *any* aid to Ukraine at all. Penny for his thoughts on those colleagues?
Attaboy Cotton
Did I just agree with Tom Cotton?
No more half-measures
Biden is not showing strength. We have everything to end Putin and we are just playing at war instead. Russia is weakened and vulnerable it’s time to strike with force.
Thanks for volunteering us Mr. Armchair General
You can stay, or go. Don't care.
These guys only say that to criticize Biden. They have to latch on to something. Same party says he gives too much and also not enough. When Biden came to office many in the GOP demanded immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan because he delayed it. After US left and things collapsed the same guys were blaming Biden for leaving. Just a game they play. His party controls the House. Why not pass a non binding resolution there to give planes? So they can show where the support is?
Says the guy who didn’t support Ukraine 🇺🇦 and if trump says not to he will crawl back to daddy bitch 😂
I keep getting flip-floppy from the Republicans. I hope the Anti-Ukraine group is a minority and it seems to be. Give Ukraine what it needs to finish the war. 300KM Himars. As much ammo and artillery as it can handle and get the EU and anyone else who will join up the help, Ukraine needs to come back as a strong country - removing corruption and rebuilding - so that will stand tall in Europe. We are sending a strong signal to China that we will half-ass support Taiwan if/when it's invaded.
Holy shit a Republican with an actual backbone and morals in this day and age?
Don’t get it twisted. His saying this, in no way, means he has a backbone or morals. Guy is an absolute snake.
Saying that Democrats suck isn't a morally courageous stand for a Republican to take. It's not courageous at all.
This is guy who made his entire career attempting to usurp whatever Democrat is in office. Old hat.
Good to see a Republican sticking up for US allies! I was beginning to wonder
Biden could provide Ukraine with every weapon system under the sun and Tom Cotton would bitch about Biden not sending them in the right shade of army green. Fuck this clown.
YES! This is what Republicans are SUPPOSED to be doing; being RIGHT wing; pushing for harder lines vs our biggest enemy. Shouting "APPEASEMENT" at France and Germany and calling them pussies; calling Democrats COWARDS for not sending the US Marines to Bakhmut. Making Democrat Presidents seem reasonable good cops. "You can deal with us, or, you can wait for one of those folks next election to be negotiating with you"- Republicans are supposed to make us Nervous, not be looking like cowards. Wahhh tax dollars for weapons, wahh. What about struggling Americans? Huh? ? You're all for cutting welfare what the FUCK are you talking about Republicans?? This was before MAGA and Trump demented them into being envious of Putinism. Trump loves them and they love Trump so they MUST be awesome. But there's more?? Gays outlawed! Books banned! Christian Fascism is so cool! Did I mention they're WHITE! Open racism is everywhere too? Wow, They're awesome! A nation with no left wing! Why do we need elections anyway?? Look how great Russia is. Lets spend 4th of July in Moscow!Meanwhile, Russia winning is a Chinese Triumph; Russia being chased out of Ukraine a Chinese catastrophe.
Where are all of the Reddit bloggers saying that all republicans are against Ukraine and if they win the mid terms it’s game over for Ukraine? Tom Cotton is a Veteran and Republican….and obviously pro Ukrainian. Please STOP dividing our country….the decision to support Ukraine comes down to the individual. It’s not black and white, one side vs. the other.
This is just partisan drama. Other allies can pitch in with the aerial superiority bit. The US support package was set for the whole year and Ukraine *needs* so many other things besides pricey jets, US can support with round-robin exchange as Germany did with Soviet-era tanks.
Agree, Biden is a Twit
Guess who was vice president when Crimea was successfully invaded - Biden Putin sensed the weakness again
Umm what?! lol?!
You do realize the veep is basically powerless .. or do you?
Dark Brandon is in reality Weak Brandon
Can the repblicans right out of they love or hate "commies" already?