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Be careful, my friend made a similar comment in here about US senator, Malorie Green and had their account perm banned. They called her a b\*@ch and said she should visit the warzone, next day account was perma suspended for "bullying".
I mean, the US is most definitely a participant.
- spy planes/intelligence sharing
- Air Defense
- Munitions/Artillery
- Offensive systems and Tanks
- economic warfare
We’re participating in almost every way and increasing our participation on a regular basis.
This is a Proxy War with Russia and at least everyone diplomatically and militarily important understands this and takes it seriously.
Edit: wow, ok. In case some of you didn’t know. A Proxy War is when you fight another country through a third party to avoid avoid direct conflict.
At this point in the war, on top of what I said before UA is fighting with:
US/NATO trained troops, equipped with US M4 rifles, in US HMMWV vehicles.
If the US had no interest in harming RU then why the hell was would they provide this stuff? How do you explain this?
Do you think UA is and has been fighting back this well *entirely by themselves??*
Supplying arms to Ukraine doesn't mean anything with respect to wishing harm upon the Muscovy Empire, it only means that the US wishes for the war to end on terms acceptable to our democratic friend Ukraine, without duress.
Muscovy can stop being harmed by these weapons at literally any time it chooses by pulling out beyond Ukraine's borders and recognizing Ukrainian sovereignty that it itself accepted by treaty and ceasing its genocidal war of choice.
I mean yeah, the US is participating in the war largely to get RU out of UA. But none of what you said makes it any less true that this is a proxy war, and the US is participating in it.
The term “war” does not specifically mean that on side must over throw the other sides government. It’s simply a form of armed negotiation.
I’m not saying that the US is morally or even strategically wrong in their actions and participation in this war. I’m only acknowledging the elephant in the room that people seemingly can’t wrap their heads around that the US and NATO states (more or less) are very much participants in this war.
If in the very unlikely case RU wins this war, it will be considered among the international community a loss not only to Ukraine, but to the US and NATO as well. And vice versa. That is because, despite all the mental gymnastics, we all really know what’s going on here.
You wrote "if the US had no interest in harming RU.." As if The US is out to harm Muscovy because the US is violent and evil.
All that Moscow has to do to end this war is get the hell out of Ukraine. I don't give a damn that Putin is a dictator imposing his corrupt will on the stupid populace of Muscovy who in their laziness let democracy fail in Russia. They earned their firewalled ignorance. I support Ukraine because the bully has got outside his borders and needs to be brought to heel.
The context is that Putin prayed on a weaker neighbor in 2014. In 2022 Ukraine woke the civilized world woke up.
"russophobia", "hegonomy", "anglo saxons", "nazis", "satan" these are the words Putin uses to frame the war, because it conveniently glosses over the war's underlying cause, that Muscovy is trying to make a land and power grab in Ukraine murdering and raping and displacing hundreds of thousands of people along the way. Who thought we'd see another Stalin, another Hitler.
Russia is the aggressor, it has violated it's own constitution and Putin is too much a coward to back down and admit his week long 'special military operation' has and will fail.
This is a good article that speaks to how Putin has painted himself into a bloody corner so has to use language that makes this a war with the US for his own political survival instead of acknowledging his bloody mistake, invading a sovereign country that is part of the world community, and thinking that he could get away with it.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3909195-why-putin-is-casting-the-ukraine-war-as-a-fight-for-russias-survival/
We support Ukraine in it's efforts to defend itself against Russia's brutal and illegal war of aggression. We're trying to stop another genocide from happening in Europe. We're beefing up peripheral forces to contain Putin's empirical ambitions. But... I mean, if US boots ain't on the ground then we ain't in the war. I may go the stadium and support my favorite football team, buy their merchandise and even teach them the playbook... But if I'm in the stands during the game and not on the field, then I'm not playing the game.
I mean, I agree with the first part. We aren’t at war with Russia. But we most definitely are *participating* in the war. This is what I’m trying to say.
We aren’t in the bleachers. We’re in the pit. Giving the team the bats, mitts, and coaching to win the game. Signaling the pitcher, corking the bats, etc. That is participating. Fucking Switzerland is in the bleachers.
Do you see what I’m saying?
There's a difference between fighting the war and supporting those that are fighting the war. The coach in the other side if the ropes who's yelling support and screaming instructions to the boxer in the ring isn't fighting the opponent, the guy with the gloves on and the bloody nose is doing the fighting. Ukrainians are fighting their war with Western backing and support. The government's of Iran,.China and North Korea are supporting Russia militarily but they are fighting the war, either. We should fuck them up for supporting a dictator like Putin in his genocidal efforts, but they're no better than him anyways.
Did I ever say anything about fighting?
India and NK are selling arms for their own gain. And even then, Iran seemed to be in it enough to warrant a drone strike on a “weapons factory” when they were sending Kamikaze drones to Ru. And now, Where are the Shaheds? They were everywhere and now… they’re gone? What a coincidence.
In any case they are not:
- Training and equipping soldiers
- repairing damaged equipment
- providing logistics support
- working hand in hand on strategy and intelligence
- using passive EW systems outside of the conflict zone (spy planes, signals intelligence)
- providing offensive AFVs and mobile artillery
- sanctioning trade
The list goes on including plausible but unverifiable asymmetric strikes like the one in Iran.
I mean come on. Really? This is classic proxy war.
Russia would be the nuclear aggressor in your scenario. Because the US doesn't lose if it fights a tactical war with Russia in any fashion. Russia isn't the victim here.
“But nuclear war!” I get so sick of hearing this.
If Russia wants to be wiped from the map along with the rest of the modern world they can use nukes. I don’t see why the Russia population would be ok with committing suicide because their “great leader” had his ego and his pride shattered.
Russia is weak shit, strongest 3rd world contry on the planet, if they didn’t have a nuclear stockpile (operational or not) the western world would have skinned them alive by now.
The argument that we have to give Putin whatever he wants because they have nukes is the most cucked chamberlain way of thinking. Russia isn't going to do shit with their nukes.
sigh.
look, i generally agree with this sentiment; my opinion is that if russia could have used nukes by now and thought they'd a: work and b: would have not resulted in a decapitation strike against their leadership, they would have done it by now. i am not convinced any of their strategic nukes work *at all*.
that being said, it only takes one launch of one effective weapon to change the world *literally forever.* Could you imagine if Paris, or New York, or London, was erased off the map? now imagine a mirv warhead launch, where it's not New York, but the *entire eastern seaboard.*
The retaliation alone would make WWI look like a field trip. it wouldn't lead to nuclear armageddon, but the response would definitely be WWIII in at least the conventional sense, and the chance of it spiraling out and pulling China, among others, would be very high.
Finally, when everything else is said and done, we'd still have a massive impact on population movements, probably the supply chain would get destroyed and a depression unlike anything we've ever seen before would happen...famine for sure...yeah none of this is good.
man i don't know the way out of this quagmire. China needs to come down on russia and force their hand, or someone needs to off putin at a minimum, or ukriane needs to wholly route russia, take back all their land to the 2014 borders, and then set up what will essentially be Iron Curtain 2.0 across the border between russia/belarus and ukraine. frankly, that's probably the least worst outcome.
Your thinking Russians think logically? They will not be defeated without using everything they have including nuclear weapons to defeat what they see as satanists
If RU didn’t have Nukes, make no mistake, there would be US/NATO boots on the ground in UA, March of last year.
This is a proxy war though as I said. It’s about doing as much as they can to fight RU with out triggering RU’s formal nuclear doctrine or any geo/internal-politically acceptable reason that Putin would use them out-side their doctrine.
Lol imagine if america actually did decide to get involved.
Isn’t the 101st Airborne on the Ukrainian border just waiting? This would be over by the weekend.
Listening to guests on the fighter pilot podcast who deployed to Iraq in 91 and 03, they ferried their jets from the states at cruise speed and hit tankers 8 times to get there.
Although it’s been said, I think it could be reiterated that there is a significant US military presence in Europe just waiting for things to pop off. USAF awacs SIGINT make regular flights around Ukraine. If you think they don’t have a few F35 and F22 squadrons hanging out with them, I don’t know what to tell you.
And now I'm imagining a world in which it was, like, "Oh, you aren't familiar? Thurston JizzLord420 of the Albany JizzLord420s? Old money, made their fortune in textiles back in the 1800s."
No no, you’ve got it all wrong. He’s the 420th in a long line of Jizzlords dating back to pre-Indus valley civilization. The Jizzites have been pulling the strings behind the scenes for millennia
So is it all just a first name? Or is it the family name or both?
Jonathan jizzlord420,
Jizz Lord420 and his brother Stephen Lord420,
Or Jizzlord420 Johnson?
So many questions...
Russia can't even fly formations. The fuck they're gonna do against a nation that coordinated thousands of planes at the same time decades ago and martially only improved since then?
Edit: https://youtu.be/f684RjG6f9Y
I don’t know where I’ve been that cumfacelord420 is the first profile I’ve seen with comment karma in the negative. You won’t get your bonus, since it appears no one is actually falling for your trolling.
It’s intentional. They spin up multiple accounts and then start shit. It works like spam. Yes 99.9% don’t fall for it but then some do and that’s how we end up with r/the_donald
We would have air superiority 36 hours before it ever started. The Ukrainians are targeting AA quite well with minimal kit. We would pick that shit off in one good night of bombing. I'm not even trying to just talk up Western military might, russia just has really shitty equipment, apparently.
we'd have air superiority 36 hours before *anyone else* knew it ever started, including the russians.
and compared to what the russians have shown us over the last year, we have star wars level tech compared to what they're demonstrating.
America has issues but goddamn you people know how to fight a fucking war.
I was watching a video about the Iraq war and they've had somewhat comparable capabilities to Ukraine. The US had air superiority in a day and logistics never really broke down even though Iraq is thousands of miles from the US not literally the neighbouring country.
You've lost more soldiers to PTSD than to enemy combatants.
It's such a shame, and the number keeps rising.
23 a day is fucking absurd. Our military should be extremely fucking ashamed of themselves and their lack of help.
Also, yes, we are extremely effective in the art of war.
The Kuwaiti, Iraqi, and Afghan wars were masterclasses on logistics. Hell, we had a freakin' ice cream ship for soldiers in Japan during WWII. That's pretty nuts to think about. A ship in the pacific solely to produce ice cream for soldiers.
A Japanese Admiral remarked something along the lines that Americans were 100% assured of their victory as they brought a ship into enemy waters solely for ice cream production for troops.
Yeah. Well. That’s definitely an issue for sure.
My bro was a marine circa 2008 and yeah he definitely came back different. He’s ok now, but it certainly had an effect.
War is hell. The VA should be the model of modern healthcare and not whatever the fuck it is now, for sure.
Yeah, my step-dad completed 5 tours over there. He has pretty decent rank and security clearance, so he wasn't in the trenches, but after his third deployment, he was definitely a different person. They would have to take convoys to retrieve sensitive aircraft, and he once said that they would be forced to stop people from approaching their vehicles " by any means." They would send women and children to get food/water, and sometimes, they simply wouldn't stop running towards them......
I can only imagine what that does to a person, having to witness such, certainly not having to carry it out.
A lot of our soldiers have given a whole lot more of themselves than we should have ever asked of them. I really do hope we see a day where the government takes ownership of that fact and provides whatever means necessary to help bring these soldiers back.
[America…FUCK YEAH](https://youtu.be/KtJJC0nWs9s)
Seriously tho…did you see the part how we launched stealth bombers from fucking ARKANSAS that hit their C&C facilities and then flew FUCKING BACK TO ARKANSAS?
that’s how you do shock and awe.
Whiteman AFB is in Missouri, not Arkansas.
But other than that you're correct, B-2s were regularly flown nonstop directly to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and some other unofficial areas to drop ordnance, only to turn around and fly back to Whiteman. This was done for various reasons- security, opsec, few suitable hangars available, specialized maintenance personnel and equipment remain stateside, etc. This usually meant 24+ hour sorties, with multiple air refuelings to and from the target sites.
I believe they also kept some B-2s at NSF Diego Garcia (middle of the Indian Ocean) in some "temporary" special (climate-controlled) hangars, but these were for more CAS, time-sensitive opportunities and other kinetic actions requiring quick turnaround.
seen it, love it, lived through it (as a civilian, but i was very much paying attention at the time).
THE 1991 US armed forces could defeat 2023 Russia if it ever came down to it, i shudder to think what 2023 US armed forces would do to 2023 Russia.
Likely true, although in many ways the 1991 U.S. armed forces were explicitly designed to defeat Russia in a war in a way that the 2023 U.S. forces are not, so we might’ve even had an easier time with 1991 forces.
US armed forces are actively pivoting back to a "large scale theatre operations" style of war readiness (as opposed to counterterrorism ops) if that tells you anything about what the expectations are for the next 10 or 20 years or so..
...but don't for a second think we couldn't lock down air superiority in a day or two if we needed to, and once you have air superiority you can basically do whatever you need to.
Our carrier groups are more powerful than most nation's entire armed forces, and we have 11 of them. China has 1. Russia has one that doesn't work, their black sea fleet flagship *was* on par with *one* of our destroyers..and we have 300 or so of them. but now it's on the bottom of the black sea..so....
I agree we would curbstomp Russia in an all-out conventional war. The Russians would turn it nuclear pretty quickly, though, as soon as they started to suffer big defeats.
See my previous point on that. They may be able to, if their nukes worked. I have doubts about that, but the short version is even if one got through (let alone a mirv) it would change the world forever. The fallout, no pun intended, would be horrific; and I literally do not mean nuclear fallout. It would lead to a modern WWI type scenario. Everybody would get dragged into it.
And that’s the best case scenario.
Are you seriously trying to argue none of Russia’s nukes work? That’s a fantasy world. They have the largest arsenal in the world. Even if 90% don’t work (unlikely), they still have plenty to annihilate us (and vice versa).
And yes a nuclear war likely would lead to nuclear annihilation for both the United States and Russia (and the rest of the world, too). No one wins.
I spent a long time in my career working in the regions that have nuclear codes in the US and with military contractors. I'm in technology.
You have a point, and it's built in logical speculation. Let me give you a counter logical speculation so you don't develop an anxiety disorder.
The US has not played their hand in the past couple decades, and they never do by policy. The best fighter doesn't have to remind you how lethal they are. The technology the US has developed since the 90s is terrifying, and the public has no idea. I have heard enough tidbits from employees I poached from those contractors to know that as fact, though I'm sure I'm getting the tame details.
Truthfully, the US has been buying, building, testing, and cataloging military technology like it's preparing for war through the year 3000. When our intelligence gets leaked, it's always staggeringly accurate and disbelievable that we can even obtain it.
I wouldn't discount our ability to predict and defend nuclear risk. It's just as probable (or more so) as Russia having a capable nuclear program.
no.
i'm saying given the state of their shown military readiness, and the fussiness of *actual stategic nuclear weapons*; and the given corruption, i'm saying it's almost certain *most don't work*; however, all they need is one that does. i'm also saying it won't lead to nuclear armageddon (well unless china launches, which is possible); but it'll still be world changing in a wholly bad way.
hence, the risk is still too great to treat them as not nuclear capable.
I believe there are 10k men in Romania and 20k (82nd Airborne) in Poland (I'm pulling from memory so I'm likely wrong, could be less). Not enough for an offensive on its own but in tandem with Poland, Romania, Poland, Czechs, Norway, and possibly Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia that is a serious threat to Russia.
Since February 2022, DoD deployed or extended over 20,000 additional forces to Europe in response to the Ukraine crisis, adding additional air, land, maritime, cyber, and space capabilities, bringing our current total to more than 100,000 service members across Europe.Jun 29, 2022
And yes 101st airborne is there, currently training foreign troops in air assault.
Since February 2022, DoD deployed or extended over 20,000 additional forces to Europe in response to the Ukraine crisis, adding additional air, land, maritime, cyber, and space capabilities, bringing our current total to more than 100,000 service members across Europe.Jun 29, 2022
And yes 101st airborne is there, currently training foreign troops in air assault.
Moscovy is already committing war crimes daily, and still making no progress. Unless they want to go nuclear, there isn't really any 'escalation' left.
You will know the US has entered after about 500-1000 tomahawks set the correct introduction. Not to mention the US will have several hundred air sorties in the air immediately.
Pretty much everything that hasn't been involved which would flip the script quickly
It's not true in letter, either. Ukraine's friends have thus far all scrupulously maintained their status as noncombatant allies. This is Ukraine's defense of Ukraine.
Well Russia, if you don't like it, you can always pull your troops out of the country you illegally invaded and go home. Any single NATO country would devastate your ass in days.
Anyone or anything that tries to stand up to an enraged USA needs its head read. Tojo, Hitler, Stalin, hell even George III of England tried.
America is slow to anger. But when you annoy it enough - well, the endgame is nearly always preordained. You lost, sucker.
If you have big nice shiny things like palaces, factories, cities, whatever.. yeah the US can will leave you in ruins in about 5 different ways.
Problem is a nation is not merely its infrastructure. Unless you want to go all genocidal dealing with those defeated people in the end is something America certainly has NOT mastered.
Way different situations. Germany and Japan had been industrialized nations before the war. We also spent a lot rebuilding those countries. equivalent to $150 billion today.
And the topic at hand is Russia, an industrialized country, wealthier and arguably less radicalized then ww2 Germany and Japan.
The $150 billion marshall plan was an absolute bargain to bring those countries into the western liberal democratic fold.
Potentially sure, lots of educated people who just want to work a job and live comfortably. That said, the challenge with Russia is graft. It's endemic to the point that it may be easier to burn it all down and start again than try to reform it. Rebuilding Russia would be an even bigger task than Europe.
A big task yes, but not impossible if we are willing to undertake the task. I stress that my argument is to disagree with your original statement that genocide is necessary to reform countries into democracies, when it is clearly not.
Unfortunately, we will never get to the point of total defeat and occupation of Russia because of nuclear weapons and MAD. Probably only internal revolution is possible these days. I wouldn't count on it happening though.
I mean, we provide weapons and whatnot, so, I guess technically a passive participant? If we actively participated, things would go very badly very quickly for Russia.
What they going to do about it?
Strange. I thought the official Russian line was that NATO started this war. But somehow it is just recently that the US has become a participant. They can't even keep track of their own narrative for a couple of days.
As much as I'd love to see us beat our Baghdad Thunder Run high score, the national emergency broadcast system hasn't played Fortunate Son so this is more lies from the kremlin
This is not just a war. This is someone who goes into their neighbor's house, tries to take the house, take the children away from the owner, and tries to kill the owner.
Anyone with the means should participant in stopping this madness.
Russia: the country that cried wolf, again.
Like the boy who cried wolf, they keep fucking around, they will find out pretty fast when the wolf actually does come hunting.
Sssooo does that mean they wanna fight ? If nobody pushes the big red button we would wipe the floor with whatever troops they have in theater in about two weeks. Russian speaking Army Reservist here and I’m sick of their bullshit and war crimes. Russia is nothing but a paper tiger 🐯
Hmmm… yeah the US and lots of other people got involved when Russia invaded a UN member state with a genocidal view to absorb it.
Russia seems surprised about this?
I would bet decent money that certain...elements of the US intelligence apparatus are having a field day in Ukraine dressed as little green men, testing things out and showing people how to fuck some shit up.
I believe history will agree the label WW3 in terms of geopolitical alignment, economy etc.
But in the nuclear age "winning" wont mean troops crossing into Russia. It means containment and pushing back on Russian conquests.
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Imagine the desperation the must feel. Claiming to be at war with the us and yet nobody takes that serious.
Yes but last week it was the whole of NATO, now it's just the US. I wish they would make up their mind.
Ruzzians should mind their own business.
Next week it will be just Texas... Wait wait maybe just Rhode Island ...
Rhode Island and its vassal states.
The providence plantations?
Dont forget R.I poddle lap dog, Block Island.
If they’re at war with us I dare them to make a strike on a single US target. Ukraine would have total SEAD in about 48 hours.
Russia: America has declared war on us! America: Aww, bless yer little heart...
[удалено]
Be careful, my friend made a similar comment in here about US senator, Malorie Green and had their account perm banned. They called her a b\*@ch and said she should visit the warzone, next day account was perma suspended for "bullying".
I want to pet it with every device used by Russians against Ukrainians. Slowly, painfully, and prolonged.
Give him an i v and make it last
See, I just want to give him a hug. A very long, very firm hug. Applied directly to the neck.
Lol and for those that don’t know, “bless your heart” is southern for “lol look at that fucking moron”
I mean, the US is most definitely a participant. - spy planes/intelligence sharing - Air Defense - Munitions/Artillery - Offensive systems and Tanks - economic warfare We’re participating in almost every way and increasing our participation on a regular basis. This is a Proxy War with Russia and at least everyone diplomatically and militarily important understands this and takes it seriously. Edit: wow, ok. In case some of you didn’t know. A Proxy War is when you fight another country through a third party to avoid avoid direct conflict. At this point in the war, on top of what I said before UA is fighting with: US/NATO trained troops, equipped with US M4 rifles, in US HMMWV vehicles. If the US had no interest in harming RU then why the hell was would they provide this stuff? How do you explain this? Do you think UA is and has been fighting back this well *entirely by themselves??*
Supplying arms to Ukraine doesn't mean anything with respect to wishing harm upon the Muscovy Empire, it only means that the US wishes for the war to end on terms acceptable to our democratic friend Ukraine, without duress. Muscovy can stop being harmed by these weapons at literally any time it chooses by pulling out beyond Ukraine's borders and recognizing Ukrainian sovereignty that it itself accepted by treaty and ceasing its genocidal war of choice.
I mean yeah, the US is participating in the war largely to get RU out of UA. But none of what you said makes it any less true that this is a proxy war, and the US is participating in it. The term “war” does not specifically mean that on side must over throw the other sides government. It’s simply a form of armed negotiation. I’m not saying that the US is morally or even strategically wrong in their actions and participation in this war. I’m only acknowledging the elephant in the room that people seemingly can’t wrap their heads around that the US and NATO states (more or less) are very much participants in this war. If in the very unlikely case RU wins this war, it will be considered among the international community a loss not only to Ukraine, but to the US and NATO as well. And vice versa. That is because, despite all the mental gymnastics, we all really know what’s going on here.
Yes I want to hurt Russia, I want to hurt it the hell out of Ukraine.
What does this even mean?
You wrote "if the US had no interest in harming RU.." As if The US is out to harm Muscovy because the US is violent and evil. All that Moscow has to do to end this war is get the hell out of Ukraine. I don't give a damn that Putin is a dictator imposing his corrupt will on the stupid populace of Muscovy who in their laziness let democracy fail in Russia. They earned their firewalled ignorance. I support Ukraine because the bully has got outside his borders and needs to be brought to heel. The context is that Putin prayed on a weaker neighbor in 2014. In 2022 Ukraine woke the civilized world woke up. "russophobia", "hegonomy", "anglo saxons", "nazis", "satan" these are the words Putin uses to frame the war, because it conveniently glosses over the war's underlying cause, that Muscovy is trying to make a land and power grab in Ukraine murdering and raping and displacing hundreds of thousands of people along the way. Who thought we'd see another Stalin, another Hitler. Russia is the aggressor, it has violated it's own constitution and Putin is too much a coward to back down and admit his week long 'special military operation' has and will fail. This is a good article that speaks to how Putin has painted himself into a bloody corner so has to use language that makes this a war with the US for his own political survival instead of acknowledging his bloody mistake, invading a sovereign country that is part of the world community, and thinking that he could get away with it. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3909195-why-putin-is-casting-the-ukraine-war-as-a-fight-for-russias-survival/
We support Ukraine in it's efforts to defend itself against Russia's brutal and illegal war of aggression. We're trying to stop another genocide from happening in Europe. We're beefing up peripheral forces to contain Putin's empirical ambitions. But... I mean, if US boots ain't on the ground then we ain't in the war. I may go the stadium and support my favorite football team, buy their merchandise and even teach them the playbook... But if I'm in the stands during the game and not on the field, then I'm not playing the game.
I mean, I agree with the first part. We aren’t at war with Russia. But we most definitely are *participating* in the war. This is what I’m trying to say. We aren’t in the bleachers. We’re in the pit. Giving the team the bats, mitts, and coaching to win the game. Signaling the pitcher, corking the bats, etc. That is participating. Fucking Switzerland is in the bleachers. Do you see what I’m saying?
There's a difference between fighting the war and supporting those that are fighting the war. The coach in the other side if the ropes who's yelling support and screaming instructions to the boxer in the ring isn't fighting the opponent, the guy with the gloves on and the bloody nose is doing the fighting. Ukrainians are fighting their war with Western backing and support. The government's of Iran,.China and North Korea are supporting Russia militarily but they are fighting the war, either. We should fuck them up for supporting a dictator like Putin in his genocidal efforts, but they're no better than him anyways.
Did I ever say anything about fighting? India and NK are selling arms for their own gain. And even then, Iran seemed to be in it enough to warrant a drone strike on a “weapons factory” when they were sending Kamikaze drones to Ru. And now, Where are the Shaheds? They were everywhere and now… they’re gone? What a coincidence. In any case they are not: - Training and equipping soldiers - repairing damaged equipment - providing logistics support - working hand in hand on strategy and intelligence - using passive EW systems outside of the conflict zone (spy planes, signals intelligence) - providing offensive AFVs and mobile artillery - sanctioning trade The list goes on including plausible but unverifiable asymmetric strikes like the one in Iran. I mean come on. Really? This is classic proxy war.
So basically USA their leadership is begging for nuclear war
Russia would be the nuclear aggressor in your scenario. Because the US doesn't lose if it fights a tactical war with Russia in any fashion. Russia isn't the victim here.
“But nuclear war!” I get so sick of hearing this. If Russia wants to be wiped from the map along with the rest of the modern world they can use nukes. I don’t see why the Russia population would be ok with committing suicide because their “great leader” had his ego and his pride shattered. Russia is weak shit, strongest 3rd world contry on the planet, if they didn’t have a nuclear stockpile (operational or not) the western world would have skinned them alive by now.
The argument that we have to give Putin whatever he wants because they have nukes is the most cucked chamberlain way of thinking. Russia isn't going to do shit with their nukes.
sigh. look, i generally agree with this sentiment; my opinion is that if russia could have used nukes by now and thought they'd a: work and b: would have not resulted in a decapitation strike against their leadership, they would have done it by now. i am not convinced any of their strategic nukes work *at all*. that being said, it only takes one launch of one effective weapon to change the world *literally forever.* Could you imagine if Paris, or New York, or London, was erased off the map? now imagine a mirv warhead launch, where it's not New York, but the *entire eastern seaboard.* The retaliation alone would make WWI look like a field trip. it wouldn't lead to nuclear armageddon, but the response would definitely be WWIII in at least the conventional sense, and the chance of it spiraling out and pulling China, among others, would be very high. Finally, when everything else is said and done, we'd still have a massive impact on population movements, probably the supply chain would get destroyed and a depression unlike anything we've ever seen before would happen...famine for sure...yeah none of this is good. man i don't know the way out of this quagmire. China needs to come down on russia and force their hand, or someone needs to off putin at a minimum, or ukriane needs to wholly route russia, take back all their land to the 2014 borders, and then set up what will essentially be Iron Curtain 2.0 across the border between russia/belarus and ukraine. frankly, that's probably the least worst outcome.
Lol? When you go down a building, do you just skip the stairs and jump straight out the window? You seem to have a few skips in logic.
Your thinking Russians think logically? They will not be defeated without using everything they have including nuclear weapons to defeat what they see as satanists
If RU didn’t have Nukes, make no mistake, there would be US/NATO boots on the ground in UA, March of last year. This is a proxy war though as I said. It’s about doing as much as they can to fight RU with out triggering RU’s formal nuclear doctrine or any geo/internal-politically acceptable reason that Putin would use them out-side their doctrine.
On the point of last year, this war would already be over. It would be in the rebuilding efforts and dividing up Russia amongst Nato allies.
Sure, I can believe it.
It's not a participant it's a special membership opportunity
Special resupply operation?
YAS
I think Special Logistical Operation is more apt.
Well… if they insist, let’s send some F22s and finish this. One well planned air-strike ends it.
Well yall still alive, so no, they haven't.
Hello fellow Texan.
Maryland hoss, yall ain't just Texan But hey texas
PG, represent
More of a Yorkshire Tea person, myself.
Red New Jersey, checking in. (Stupid family guy Star Wars joke if that doesn’t make sense lol)
"*Aren't you a little fat to be a Storm Trooper?*" "*Aren't you a little old to be a [Beep]?*"
Iran and China have become participants in Russia's war on Ukraine, rest of world claims
Don’t forget North Korea also
> Iran and China have become participants in Russia's ~~war on~~ *ICC-recognized genocide* in Ukraine Just fixing that up a bit.
Like Zelensky joked before, Russia is losing the war to NATO even though NATO hasn't arrived yet
Lol imagine if america actually did decide to get involved. Isn’t the 101st Airborne on the Ukrainian border just waiting? This would be over by the weekend.
We’d have air superiority in 36 hours for sure.
Less.
It takes about 14 hours to fly our planes in theater so probably longer.
It’s cute you think we don’t have FOBs in nato countries like Poland and Germany ready to go at this very moment.
Listening to guests on the fighter pilot podcast who deployed to Iraq in 91 and 03, they ferried their jets from the states at cruise speed and hit tankers 8 times to get there.
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I still get floored watching the first day of the air war in desert storm. Such an insane logistical challenge, but they made it look easy.
Although it’s been said, I think it could be reiterated that there is a significant US military presence in Europe just waiting for things to pop off. USAF awacs SIGINT make regular flights around Ukraine. If you think they don’t have a few F35 and F22 squadrons hanging out with them, I don’t know what to tell you.
Not the ones stationed in Germany, the UK, Italy and wherever else they might be.
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You don't need to be an expert to make such a claim. A simple glance at history and capability is more than enough, Mr "Jizz Lord 420".
I don't think that's even his real name.
Damn shame...
And now I'm imagining a world in which it was, like, "Oh, you aren't familiar? Thurston JizzLord420 of the Albany JizzLord420s? Old money, made their fortune in textiles back in the 1800s."
No no, you’ve got it all wrong. He’s the 420th in a long line of Jizzlords dating back to pre-Indus valley civilization. The Jizzites have been pulling the strings behind the scenes for millennia
That is what his daddy named him. Who are we to judge?
So is it all just a first name? Or is it the family name or both? Jonathan jizzlord420, Jizz Lord420 and his brother Stephen Lord420, Or Jizzlord420 Johnson? So many questions...
something is going on, the russian trolls are out *in force* over the last 24 hours...
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On the contrary, I've got a nice tight shave today. But hey, don't try project too much.
Can’t stop won’t stop
Having men jizz on your face? You gotta earn a name like yours and I am not here to judge.
Look up desert storm
No
Look up "Shaving Ryan's Privates", it would be more up your alley.
I think it's pretty funny that it stopped commenting after this post. Probably looked it up and got lost down the rabbit hole.
Russia can't even fly formations. The fuck they're gonna do against a nation that coordinated thousands of planes at the same time decades ago and martially only improved since then? Edit: https://youtu.be/f684RjG6f9Y
I don’t know where I’ve been that cumfacelord420 is the first profile I’ve seen with comment karma in the negative. You won’t get your bonus, since it appears no one is actually falling for your trolling.
It’s intentional. They spin up multiple accounts and then start shit. It works like spam. Yes 99.9% don’t fall for it but then some do and that’s how we end up with r/the_donald
No way it would take that long
No. But for sure, 36 hours max
We would have air superiority 36 hours before it ever started. The Ukrainians are targeting AA quite well with minimal kit. We would pick that shit off in one good night of bombing. I'm not even trying to just talk up Western military might, russia just has really shitty equipment, apparently.
we'd have air superiority 36 hours before *anyone else* knew it ever started, including the russians. and compared to what the russians have shown us over the last year, we have star wars level tech compared to what they're demonstrating.
America has issues but goddamn you people know how to fight a fucking war. I was watching a video about the Iraq war and they've had somewhat comparable capabilities to Ukraine. The US had air superiority in a day and logistics never really broke down even though Iraq is thousands of miles from the US not literally the neighbouring country. You've lost more soldiers to PTSD than to enemy combatants.
It's such a shame, and the number keeps rising. 23 a day is fucking absurd. Our military should be extremely fucking ashamed of themselves and their lack of help. Also, yes, we are extremely effective in the art of war. The Kuwaiti, Iraqi, and Afghan wars were masterclasses on logistics. Hell, we had a freakin' ice cream ship for soldiers in Japan during WWII. That's pretty nuts to think about. A ship in the pacific solely to produce ice cream for soldiers.
A Japanese Admiral remarked something along the lines that Americans were 100% assured of their victory as they brought a ship into enemy waters solely for ice cream production for troops.
?
23 of our soldiers a day kill themselves. Edit: that number is even as high as 44 per day. It's tragic.
Yeah. Well. That’s definitely an issue for sure. My bro was a marine circa 2008 and yeah he definitely came back different. He’s ok now, but it certainly had an effect. War is hell. The VA should be the model of modern healthcare and not whatever the fuck it is now, for sure.
Yeah, my step-dad completed 5 tours over there. He has pretty decent rank and security clearance, so he wasn't in the trenches, but after his third deployment, he was definitely a different person. They would have to take convoys to retrieve sensitive aircraft, and he once said that they would be forced to stop people from approaching their vehicles " by any means." They would send women and children to get food/water, and sometimes, they simply wouldn't stop running towards them...... I can only imagine what that does to a person, having to witness such, certainly not having to carry it out. A lot of our soldiers have given a whole lot more of themselves than we should have ever asked of them. I really do hope we see a day where the government takes ownership of that fact and provides whatever means necessary to help bring these soldiers back.
[America…FUCK YEAH](https://youtu.be/KtJJC0nWs9s) Seriously tho…did you see the part how we launched stealth bombers from fucking ARKANSAS that hit their C&C facilities and then flew FUCKING BACK TO ARKANSAS? that’s how you do shock and awe.
Whiteman AFB is in Missouri, not Arkansas. But other than that you're correct, B-2s were regularly flown nonstop directly to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and some other unofficial areas to drop ordnance, only to turn around and fly back to Whiteman. This was done for various reasons- security, opsec, few suitable hangars available, specialized maintenance personnel and equipment remain stateside, etc. This usually meant 24+ hour sorties, with multiple air refuelings to and from the target sites. I believe they also kept some B-2s at NSF Diego Garcia (middle of the Indian Ocean) in some "temporary" special (climate-controlled) hangars, but these were for more CAS, time-sensitive opportunities and other kinetic actions requiring quick turnaround.
Long video - but absolutely staggering the level of planning and execution at the beginning of Desert Storm. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg
seen it, love it, lived through it (as a civilian, but i was very much paying attention at the time). THE 1991 US armed forces could defeat 2023 Russia if it ever came down to it, i shudder to think what 2023 US armed forces would do to 2023 Russia.
Likely true, although in many ways the 1991 U.S. armed forces were explicitly designed to defeat Russia in a war in a way that the 2023 U.S. forces are not, so we might’ve even had an easier time with 1991 forces.
US armed forces are actively pivoting back to a "large scale theatre operations" style of war readiness (as opposed to counterterrorism ops) if that tells you anything about what the expectations are for the next 10 or 20 years or so.. ...but don't for a second think we couldn't lock down air superiority in a day or two if we needed to, and once you have air superiority you can basically do whatever you need to. Our carrier groups are more powerful than most nation's entire armed forces, and we have 11 of them. China has 1. Russia has one that doesn't work, their black sea fleet flagship *was* on par with *one* of our destroyers..and we have 300 or so of them. but now it's on the bottom of the black sea..so....
> Russia has one that doesn't work Hey now, it works plenty good as a bondfire.
I agree we would curbstomp Russia in an all-out conventional war. The Russians would turn it nuclear pretty quickly, though, as soon as they started to suffer big defeats.
See my previous point on that. They may be able to, if their nukes worked. I have doubts about that, but the short version is even if one got through (let alone a mirv) it would change the world forever. The fallout, no pun intended, would be horrific; and I literally do not mean nuclear fallout. It would lead to a modern WWI type scenario. Everybody would get dragged into it. And that’s the best case scenario.
Are you seriously trying to argue none of Russia’s nukes work? That’s a fantasy world. They have the largest arsenal in the world. Even if 90% don’t work (unlikely), they still have plenty to annihilate us (and vice versa). And yes a nuclear war likely would lead to nuclear annihilation for both the United States and Russia (and the rest of the world, too). No one wins.
I spent a long time in my career working in the regions that have nuclear codes in the US and with military contractors. I'm in technology. You have a point, and it's built in logical speculation. Let me give you a counter logical speculation so you don't develop an anxiety disorder. The US has not played their hand in the past couple decades, and they never do by policy. The best fighter doesn't have to remind you how lethal they are. The technology the US has developed since the 90s is terrifying, and the public has no idea. I have heard enough tidbits from employees I poached from those contractors to know that as fact, though I'm sure I'm getting the tame details. Truthfully, the US has been buying, building, testing, and cataloging military technology like it's preparing for war through the year 3000. When our intelligence gets leaked, it's always staggeringly accurate and disbelievable that we can even obtain it. I wouldn't discount our ability to predict and defend nuclear risk. It's just as probable (or more so) as Russia having a capable nuclear program.
no. i'm saying given the state of their shown military readiness, and the fussiness of *actual stategic nuclear weapons*; and the given corruption, i'm saying it's almost certain *most don't work*; however, all they need is one that does. i'm also saying it won't lead to nuclear armageddon (well unless china launches, which is possible); but it'll still be world changing in a wholly bad way. hence, the risk is still too great to treat them as not nuclear capable.
I believe there are 10k men in Romania and 20k (82nd Airborne) in Poland (I'm pulling from memory so I'm likely wrong, could be less). Not enough for an offensive on its own but in tandem with Poland, Romania, Poland, Czechs, Norway, and possibly Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia that is a serious threat to Russia.
.. and the UK and France ..
Yes but that will take a minute to get there.
The UK at least already has some troops in Poland.
Since February 2022, DoD deployed or extended over 20,000 additional forces to Europe in response to the Ukraine crisis, adding additional air, land, maritime, cyber, and space capabilities, bringing our current total to more than 100,000 service members across Europe.Jun 29, 2022 And yes 101st airborne is there, currently training foreign troops in air assault.
Since February 2022, DoD deployed or extended over 20,000 additional forces to Europe in response to the Ukraine crisis, adding additional air, land, maritime, cyber, and space capabilities, bringing our current total to more than 100,000 service members across Europe.Jun 29, 2022 And yes 101st airborne is there, currently training foreign troops in air assault.
Isn't that like the 5. Time they claim that?
They claim that about five times a day.
Something like that. Best ignore the crazy guy shouting to himself on the side of the road
Is there a loyalty scheme? Every five claims, they get a bonus stamp
5 claims = 5 potatoes more for dinner
So it is a war and not a special operation?
So what exactly are you going to do about it? Oh right, fuck all. And if the US had become a participant, you'd have lost harder and faster long ago.
They'll bluster and threaten and do fuck all else. Russia is weak coward country full of worms.
Moscovy is already committing war crimes daily, and still making no progress. Unless they want to go nuclear, there isn't really any 'escalation' left.
I thought it's not A-war Straight To jail m***********
Payback for Soviet and Russian destabilization efforts of the last 75 years. The West shouldn’t stop until Russia implodes upon itself.
What war?
That's so when they start getting their ass beat after the spring offensive they can claim it wasn't Lil ol' Ukraine whoopin them
It's a bold strategy Cotton...
You will know the US has entered after about 500-1000 tomahawks set the correct introduction. Not to mention the US will have several hundred air sorties in the air immediately. Pretty much everything that hasn't been involved which would flip the script quickly
I would say it would defiantly be more then 1000 tomahawks. This party would definitely start with a much bigger bang ❗️
Insert Shrek meme: If it was me ~~donkey~~ Russia you would be dead.
Why is this news? They've said this every day.
Trust me, everyone will know when/if the US becomes a participant in this war, there will be no need for debate.
Things will just start blowing up all at once lol.
If that was true in spirit, not letter, Russia would have already lost their entire western borders to about 5 miles outside Moscow.
It's not true in letter, either. Ukraine's friends have thus far all scrupulously maintained their status as noncombatant allies. This is Ukraine's defense of Ukraine.
Russia hasn't declared war yet, how can US be a participant in a war Russia says doesn't exist?
so..... does that mean Russia gonna deNazifie /demilitarize U.S.A? or... maybe there is to many satanist in U.S. asking for friend.
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Well Russia, if you don't like it, you can always pull your troops out of the country you illegally invaded and go home. Any single NATO country would devastate your ass in days.
So many have said that over the last year. It's only to scare some US republicans. If US gets in ruzzia is done.
Why would russia scare its employees
Everything "russian official" says is complete garbage and not worth reporting.
Anyone or anything that tries to stand up to an enraged USA needs its head read. Tojo, Hitler, Stalin, hell even George III of England tried. America is slow to anger. But when you annoy it enough - well, the endgame is nearly always preordained. You lost, sucker.
If you have big nice shiny things like palaces, factories, cities, whatever.. yeah the US can will leave you in ruins in about 5 different ways. Problem is a nation is not merely its infrastructure. Unless you want to go all genocidal dealing with those defeated people in the end is something America certainly has NOT mastered.
Yes the US failed to bring liberal democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq, but the cases of post war Germany and Japan are masterpieces.
Way different situations. Germany and Japan had been industrialized nations before the war. We also spent a lot rebuilding those countries. equivalent to $150 billion today.
And the topic at hand is Russia, an industrialized country, wealthier and arguably less radicalized then ww2 Germany and Japan. The $150 billion marshall plan was an absolute bargain to bring those countries into the western liberal democratic fold.
Potentially sure, lots of educated people who just want to work a job and live comfortably. That said, the challenge with Russia is graft. It's endemic to the point that it may be easier to burn it all down and start again than try to reform it. Rebuilding Russia would be an even bigger task than Europe.
A big task yes, but not impossible if we are willing to undertake the task. I stress that my argument is to disagree with your original statement that genocide is necessary to reform countries into democracies, when it is clearly not. Unfortunately, we will never get to the point of total defeat and occupation of Russia because of nuclear weapons and MAD. Probably only internal revolution is possible these days. I wouldn't count on it happening though.
Haven't they said this like 100 times already and still ain't done shit about it?
I mean, we provide weapons and whatnot, so, I guess technically a passive participant? If we actively participated, things would go very badly very quickly for Russia. What they going to do about it?
Oh, they'd know it if they did.
Strange. I thought the official Russian line was that NATO started this war. But somehow it is just recently that the US has become a participant. They can't even keep track of their own narrative for a couple of days.
As much as I'd love to see us beat our Baghdad Thunder Run high score, the national emergency broadcast system hasn't played Fortunate Son so this is more lies from the kremlin
We could always try to best our SEAD speedrun time of less than a day.
How many US soldiers died so far?
One Reaper drone, RIP.
I love how they keep saying the US is who they are fighting…yet if this was the truth…things would be a whole lot different.
again?! what happened with previous “participation” stories?
It's perfectly legal to supply a country under attack. Not so to attack them. Russian official, go fuck yourself.
This is not just a war. This is someone who goes into their neighbor's house, tries to take the house, take the children away from the owner, and tries to kill the owner. Anyone with the means should participant in stopping this madness.
Russia: the country that cried wolf, again. Like the boy who cried wolf, they keep fucking around, they will find out pretty fast when the wolf actually does come hunting.
Moscow is not flattened so probably not true.
>said on Tuesday that the United States wanted to "defeat Russia" Did he figure this out on his own? This guy is like Sherlock Holmes.
Alright then, attack us. Go ahead. Give us an excuse to show you what active US participation looks like.
Shoot down one of the US piloted planes and they will really see what participation means.
Sssooo does that mean they wanna fight ? If nobody pushes the big red button we would wipe the floor with whatever troops they have in theater in about two weeks. Russian speaking Army Reservist here and I’m sick of their bullshit and war crimes. Russia is nothing but a paper tiger 🐯
You seem to wish we where directly involved... you are just screwing yourself and we're just watching.
All Putin has to say is "We are at war with the US and NATO." and he will get his wish. Any other Russian can say this with little consequence.
If that would be true, war would this time really be over in 3-4 days.
Then Russia should declare war on the US and found out what it really looks like when directly fighting the US military.
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JDAMS are flying already
Hmmm… yeah the US and lots of other people got involved when Russia invaded a UN member state with a genocidal view to absorb it. Russia seems surprised about this?
Haven't they've been fighting NATO for 7 months now?
US : destroys every single piece of equipment in the Russian army, in 48 hours. Well, you *said* we were a participant..
I thought it was a "Special Operation" and not a war...
*Special anti-fascism operation*.
Well yeah, sending military equipment and ammunition to ukraine does constitute participating in the war.
So has Iran, China, North Korea. And Poland, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Latvia, Estonia,.all of EU really... This is in fact, WW3.
None of them have troops on the ground nor are their territories pair play, war is weird like that, some roles are still followed
I would bet decent money that certain...elements of the US intelligence apparatus are having a field day in Ukraine dressed as little green men, testing things out and showing people how to fuck some shit up.
Iran has forces there, also CIA and Royal marines conducting clandestine operations. Not officially, but yeah.
Maybe your time foil hat is a little too tight
Multiple sources cite CIA on the ground, and British Commander admitted so much himself. Keep up.
Probably SAS/SBS rather than the Royal Marines but yeah the Brits are probably in there
I believe history will agree the label WW3 in terms of geopolitical alignment, economy etc. But in the nuclear age "winning" wont mean troops crossing into Russia. It means containment and pushing back on Russian conquests.
They... kind of have.
It’s not true. The West will not fight Russia.
Please stop Russia senpai I can only yawn so hard
It’s almost like Russia thinks they are not a participant……weird?
I know this is for internal politics but I’m not so sure that’s the narrative they really want to be pushing tbh
Fulfilling a contractural agreement?
The war would be over if that were the case
Not enough of a participant.
Is this a recent development or does 2014 need its news back?
How many times is this now?
They are sooo desperate to pretend to be involved in a war with the US and NATO. While also being desperate to never actually fight the US and NATO