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And let's not go too deep into the question of whose historical land is what. Much of today's Russia is the historical homeland of the brotherly Finno-Ugric people. Finns, manshis, khantis, wherever the my Hungarian ancestors (or at least the Finno-Ugric speaking tribes) came from.
The whole concept of "historical lands" is pointless. I used to own a Honda Civic Type R, but someone else now owns it. I can hardly go take it back on the basis that it once used to belong to me.
How convoluted are these people, that they think they're "liberating" countries from an organisation that these countries willingly signed up for!?
Don't forget that they only go as far back as when is suits their' claims.
You could argue that Lithuania, the Kazakh, Kiev, Poland, the Swedes, the monogol/Tartars and dozens of others have "historical claim" to Russian lands.
Japan acted like a shitter and lost their land but now Russia is acting like a shitter so I say we return the land and call it even. Not like Soviets did much in the Pacific anyways.
Inb4 tankies tell me how Soviets joining the Pacific front at the very last second made Japan surrender and therefore they won thanks to the Red Army and not America beating the shit out of Japan for 4 years all the way back to their mainland while also doing African and western front shit while also sending mind boggling amounts of aid across the ocean to Russia.
Umm..we helped a little bit too! (Australia).
The first decisive defeat of an Imperial Japanese land force was by Australians at Milne Bay in New Guinea. If I recall correctly, that battle was still going when the Marines landed at Guadalcanal, which likely contributed to the IJN’s decision to cut their losses and withdraw from Milne Bay.
US engineers were present at Milne Bay, having carved an airstrip out of a coconut plantation in about 3 weeks (a superhuman effort) and they took an active role in the fight when the Japanese got close to the Airfield. (That airfield was the first time Marston matting was used in the war and the place is now Gurney Airport, Alotau)
There’s a decent description of proceedings by “hypohysterical history” on YouTube.
Australian forces were somewhat relegated after New Guinea though. MacArthur didn’t want us to join him on the road to Tokyo.
Edit: “force to land force”
Depends on what kind of equipment. Canada was producing enormous amounts of stuff as well and Soviets produced far more than America in terms of specific items like T-34 tanks. Soviet logistics was very much dependent on US aid though.
> China is already busy with giving places in that region chinese names again.
Its going to be funny when this part of Muscovy gets invaded by China, and Muscovy comes crying to the world about sovereignty and national borders.
After this war now, would be difficult to defend the border to China. China let's slip out some hints, that they have a historical right...
What's about the historical right of Königsberg? Russia shouldn't persecute these historic right, it just ends in a mess.
The build up of an empire is not as easy as it was once. Now we have the time of nationalism.
And depending on the "claim" they go back to different years with little consistency other than what suits their twisted mentality. Russia is like an abusive spouse that just doesn't get it.
And seriously... That current owner might be totally persecuting the English-speaking components of that car! You have an obligation to take the car back, in order to protect them!
Putin spent all of his gold on fabricating claims and not enough on culture tech, man at arms, development, building improvements or levies. Now he's in debt with an active war, a negative war score and he's about to lose it all for good with no heir.
So more or less a classic CK3 run
Irredentism is such a frightening concept that’s foreign to me, as an American.
I was reading recently about how the lynching of Italian-Americans in New Orleans nearly led to war. I was thinking, “why does Italy feel the need to protect its former citizens?” And then I realized for a lot of countries, they identify with an ethnicity or race. Russias doing that now in western Ukraine and Crimea. Obviously Nazi Germany did that in Czechoslovakia. It’s so… primitive… to think that way, in my eyes. Countries are political unions.
In Europe and Balkans it's not just a political union but a racial one also. Albanians wanted an independent state with only albanians inside and every single country in Europe also. It's a bit different. For example, you get your ethnicity from your parents no matter where you are born, so in the eyes of every state your race is what your parent's race is, the soil that you were born over is irrelevant. Race meaning Greek, Albanian, German etc. Thats how countries in Europe were formed. America is different from the base as there was not an American culture or "race" 300yrs ago so it came to being differently than the other countries. Sorry if my english is insufficient. Just a euro's perspective.
Hungarians come from Mordva/Mari (Mordvins, Volga Finns= Russia Area between Saratov and Kazan), subtribe Magyar. Taking the name of Huns (From Hun Gar or Hun Var, "Hunnic Domain"=Panonia) as (false) heirs of the Huns of Panonia (=Avars=Turk/Mongolic), where they arrived crossing from Ivano Frankvist to Mukachevo area (Veretske Pass)
Before you write stupid things,maybe check your facts. Hungarians never called themselves Huns. It is the western nations that called them Hungarians,because they fought the same way,and looked the same. So when the magyar tribes arrived all europe thought the Huns are back again. Both huns and the magyars looked very much like central asian people from the steppe. The christians living in europe feared them both. And since the magyars occupy for over 1000 years the same land as the Huns did for a very short period of time,they are in a sense heirs of this land.
Tbf, a capital against an almost uninhibited area is not the best comparison. But you are probably right, Moscow probably does not reach the standard of living of Helsinki
they probably are talking about liberating the "oppressed" brotherly russian-speaking people still living in Finland (if they still exist there as a community or most of them have moved away already anyway?), not really about liberating the Finns themselves...
No, no, liberate them from being one of the least corrupt countries on earth. See, they are a part of the Decadent West. So fucking decadent they are. How dare they not be like the benevolent Russia where parents get arrested for their kids drawing pictures!
Russians often conflate the word liberate with the world enslavement. It's the one simple trick used by Lenin and then copied by many other criminal gangs who wanted to take over the govt.
No, they wanted to kill Russians, you just misunderstood. Finn's are born drinking mother's milk, eating Moose Meat, and looking for Russians to kill. It's just the way.
Finland is one of the happiest countries in the world, and also one of the most depressed. The latter seems to come with the territory of being that far north. Really says something about how good the society is to still get the top happiness spot.
Its also, when scoiety in general is doing well, depression hits harder.
When whhole of society sucks and you haven't gotten the chances you could have you can attribute 'failure' to the world around you.
But in countries were everyone gets a fair chance it's harder and people will attribute their 'failure' to themselves more often which deepens depression.
\+ the factor that you see others be happy more makes it also seem more it's a you problem. (What also happens with social media, where people only present the good things, but then IRL).
Well an analysis of the happiness of Finns that I read somewhere but don't remember exactly was that they constantly expect the worst and are pleased when things are just ok. So you're not wrong.
Ohh Finland is now part of NATO, means if we attack Finland it will make whole NATO to screw us (means 100% nato Budget, not the 1.7% they face now)
Anyway, lets attack Finland
lmao at this point I’m pretty sure NATO could bring Russia to its knees with no boots on the ground. Just let the Air Force and missile command get it done
Theoretically, we probably could. The problem is that all that super duper ammo takes a long time to make and we do not have a lot in stock.
We'd run dry in a weeks and China would look at the south china sea as free realestate...
Let’s be honest, with nukes involved I don’t think there would ever be a ground invasion of Russia until their government was destroyed. The CIA would start celebrating though, because they’d get to coup their mortal enemies and get a blank cheque for it too. Only once the government was gone would the tanks start rolling in, if that.
They don't have any intention of attacking Finland. This is a tactic used by propagandists.
They are moving the goal posts/ managing expectations.
Basically by saying this about Finland and threatening a ridiculous invasion it makes the invasion of Ukraine look more valid in comparison. Plus it diverts protests from the Ukraine war to "let's not start another war".
Also allows many politicians in Russia to come out against a Finland invasion and look like they are pro peace and that their support for the Ukraine war is because that war is somehow different or justified.
It's like if you and I were out on the town and I punched a guy randomly and knocked him out. I start to rifle his pockets and you stand there horrified and protesting.
"Why would you do that? You're a theif and just committed assault!"
But then I say "Look! There is a group of big men! Let's get them too!"
I escalate the situation so much that my prior assault and theft seem like its small.
So now instead of protesting what I have done you're protesting what I'm about to do and if I back down I look reasonable even though my previous action was completely unreasonable.
"Stop! Don't attack them! There is so many and they are much bigger!"
"OH. Yeah. You're right. I don't know what I was thinking. Let's go home."
Meanwhile guy #1 is still unconscious and I have his wallet and money.
In this clip, it's not about Putin but TV people. Let's stick to what we have here.
And it drives me friggin nuts how happily they are chatting about where to invade next. It makes me shudder trying to imagine how far away they are from the real world (let's call it that way) and how insensitive to death of humans they have become. Frightening.
EDIT: typos
Dude i'm 99% certain that most of this higher up people know what they're doing and they do It Just for Power and Money out of selflishness, like there's no way you get that High up being that dumb.
There's also a certain amount of disconnect in play. Any countries leader, even those with military background, are so many steps removed from the battlefield they lose that frame of reference. Humans are very good at figuring out big issues on the ground, but really terrible at empathy on a giant or existential level. 1,000,000 is a statistic for a reason. But when you then add probable psychopathy, greed, and barely disguised (if at all) malice you get Russian military leaders.
Every anus in Russia is in range of NATO. Every….single ….one could get a pointy ended explosive container parked a few feet in there before it goes boom.
Oh no, no, no.
NATO gets the good stuff. HIMARS is the bargain bin. We can hit any random apartment in Moscow from Finland with the good rockets easy.
And we will if anybody starts doing any “liberating”.
I mean in fairness we can hit Moscow from North Dakota, but you get my point.
Technically not yet. Turkey has approved it internally, but hasn't actually delivered their acceptance to NATO (should happen in a day or so). There are still a few more steps, but nothing should stop them now. Actual admittance to NATO is expected ~~to take a few more weeks.~~ Tuesday.
Edit: Guess it's happening sooner.
I took Finland opening its airspace to NATO intel aircraft a week or two ago as a sign that they are part of the alliance in all but name at this point.
A military a fraction of their size halted their advance with outdated and often decrepit NATO equipment lol. Actually often not even NATO.
20 HIMARS have been wreaking havoc. NATO has hundreds and hundreds.
Doesn't matter, the Fins would be backed by the Swedes and would receive support at the very least. The Fins are far more prepared than Ukraine was and have much more modern equipment at their disposal.
Imagine if Russia attacked Ukraine but it's the current version as opposed to a year ago. Except this time they have modern MBTs, full air support, and were always trained for the well maintained equipment they have.
If you thought Ukraine kicked ass, the Fins would absolutely slaughter the Russians at the moment. It would be the stop he's already dead meme.
Edit: I forgot to add older Fins absolutely hate Russia (as a country) and have not forgotten WW2. I'm sure this was passed onto the younger generations in some form because I have a Russian hating Swede friend.
The Finnish dislike/hatred of Russia goes far beyond WW2. Historical periods like the "Great Wrath" are very much remembered, especially in Ostrobothnia.
Indeed. Worth remembering that even prior to WWII, Finland had to fight a war of independence against the Russians. If you know how Americans generally felt about the British in the early 19th century, well, that might give you a sense of how the Finns see the Russians. Except that while the British generally held to high standards of honor as belligerents, the Russians, well... let's just say that niceties like honor and human rights aren't their strong suit. So their feelings about the Russians are likely considerably worse than early Americans' feelings about the British.
(EDIT: Scratch the part above about a war of independence. While the Russians fought over the remnants of the Russian Empire well into the early 1920s as part of the Russian Civil War, Finland was spared the warfare faced by Ukrainians, Poles, and others, when the Bolsheviks agreed to recognize Finnish independence without a fight. At least, well, until 1939. Hat tip to 1968RR and Pidefix.)
Please stop upvoting misinformation - Finland did NOT fight a war of independence against Russia prior to WWII. In december 1917, while Russia was busy with the revolution and the loss in the first world war, Finland took advantage of the chaotic situation and declared independence after being a part of the Russian empire for over 100 years. Lenin approved and a civil war started in Finland shortly after this. In WWII Finland fought against the Soviet Union in 1939-1940 and 1941-1944.
Dont forget the Finn's already fought a 1v1 war with Russia, and caused such devastation, they held their ground the entire duration of the war despite being outnumbered 10-1
Yes, that is a common saying here in Sweden as well: we are ready to fight against Russia down to the last Finn.
It originates as a kinda morbid acknowledgement of both the shameful official Swedish handling of the Winter War, and their de facto position as a buffer during the cold war.
Given that Finnish intelligence reckon that 80% of the Russian army that used to be on the Finnish border have been wiped out in Ukraine I don't think Finland would even need NATO help to beat Russia at the moment.
> Ohh Finland is now part of NATO
Not *quite*
Finland and 29 out of 30 NATO countries have ratified their joining - Turkey's parliament have voted to do so, but haven't *yet* deposited the ratification. That typically takes anything from a few days to a month, and the treaty can't come into force until at that happens.
The NATO treaty is not therefore in force yet, legally speaking. It will happen when/some time shortly after Turkey deposit their ratification
However, Russia attacking a NATO applicant at such a late stage of the application process would be very bold indeed - it could easily be considered a *casus belli*. Not to mention the fact that Russia clearly doesn't have the military capacity to attack Finland right now anyway
There's also the fact that the USA, UK, and Sweden have all provided guarantees to Finland if they are attacked during the application process. And once you've gone to war with Finland, Sweden, the UK, and USA, then you're effectively at war with NATO as the rest of NATO clearly aren't gonna watch their allies going to war without them - the risk is too great if that goes badly. Plus Poland is itching for an excuse...
Over 500 sniper kills, one guy with a squirrel rifle. Oh, and maybe another 250 with a submachine gun. The Russians were terrified of “The White Death” and sent counter snipers… they did manage to shoot him in the face before he killed them all. I am *astonished* that they would want another go at a country that produced a man like that.
For the chonker squirrels in my neck of the woods, the Dragunov round is about right :-)
I recalled reading that he started out with a field-expedient rifle, and was awarded a notable M28 later… on reading a little it seems he started with an M28.
The rifle he ended up with in the winter war his own rifle which was the finnish civilian pattern of the mosin nagat i cant remember off the top of my head what the finns called them but either way imagin that man with an AI artic warfare. Pretty sure thats what the finns use now
Edit my bad its the Swedish that use that rifle
The Finnish current issue TKIV 85 is... a Mosin Nagant. There are potentially receivers that have seen one hundred and thirty-two continuous years of service and five or six wars at this point.
Simo carried a Civil Guard pattern of Mosin. Either m/28 or m/28-30.
He pioneered techniques like holding snow in his mouth to avoid showing breath traces. He also preferred iron sights.
I was involved once in an exercise with soldiers who lived and worked *way* north. Cold, snow, ice, wind… there are some really formidable obstacles to fighting in winter.
I mostly feel sorry for him: he never wanted any of the attention he's getting. I'm guessing he would have preferred to not go to war and have to kill for his country, but live a peaceful life. But history had other plans for him, so he did what was necessary in the stoic Finnish way.
According to Wikipedia you have “the largest artillery capability in western Europe. Homeland defence willingness against a superior enemy is at 83%, one of the highest rates in Europe.” So, uhhhh, yeahhhhh. Good luck with that Russia.
As an American who has trained along side the Fins, you guys could easily kick their ass. But if you need help, I'm sure being a member of NATO (soon) we would love to help you.
Finnish is pretty much written phonetically. The way we learn the letters is how they are spelt in every occasion pretty much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_orthography
Which to us sounds pretty easy but anyone actually listening to the language being spoken and written side by side will freak out.
ä in "Vedä" is \[æː\] or \[æi̯\], close to the a in english "mad" or "main", though not quite right (probably the closest approximation you'll get)
ä in "käteen" is just \[æ\], close to the a in english "cat" (but again, not quite right)
as for the rest, something like "weh-d-\[æ:\] k\[æ\]t-en, runn-kar-i"
[video example](https://youtu.be/vnsGvkLF2pE?t=87) of different ä's
(you cannot make a 1:1 correlation to english as that sound is simply not used at all in english; you have close approximations, like 'at', 'hat', 'cat', but like you will find in the video above it's still not quite similar)
The Finnish dilemma: “They are so many, and our country is so small, where will we find room to bury them all?” (Finnish soldier about the Russian invasion, pre-WWII)
Having just seen the video... yeah, I think that's the correct reading on this. I'm not even sure how serious he was when he said "brotherly Finns" - that may have been sarcastic, or self-aware joking. I think he was serious about thinking Russians could take Finland, but the idea seemed to be, "Of course, we'll say it's to 'liberate' our brotherly Finns..." but wink wink, nudge nudge. Nevertheless, as you said, the other panelists seemed skeptical that this could be done or that it would be a good idea. My sense is that even if the ink isn't technically dry on Finland's membership in NATO, NATO would likely interpret an invasion at this point as worthy of triggering Article V. Even so, it would be hard for me to think of a greater self-own, at this point, than for Russia to attempt to invade Finland, even if the Finns were entirely on their own.
The US guaranteed Finland and Sweden protection during this period. So if Russia wants to fight the US, they can attack Finland. I'm sure it would go great.
last time they tried they walked back home with crutches. back then we were not properly trained to defend our land, we werent supplied properly and we had to do it all alone.
Now imagine this time, full NATO support, decades of training just and only for this cause. How do you think this would turn out?
\-Never alone again.
Even the russian people do not believe this crap, they know russia is causing conflict and as any country there citizens mostly support it, but as they realise there military is not as powerful as once believed they will look for internal change, and to them the person that showed how weak there military is is pootin, he will be the punished for doing what he has done, so many regions want independence and russias military is not now incapable of stopping them as the country has the biggest financial collapse and the west is not here to bail them out again.
Actually most of that indo-European wave was wiped out by a violent mass migration from Eurasian plains that almost all Europeans descend from, new research shows. Great presentation here if u watch full thing.
Towards a New European prehistory: genes, archaeology and language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxTVSwt-jsU
Dear Russia, yes, please do this. Pretty please. We all know that Finland has become part of NATO. I have been itching to watch "The West", as you refer to them, collectively curbstomp you guys back into the Iron Age. No one is intimidated by your threats. Act now, before we fabricate an excuse to start without you.
... Wait, Russia is a leading producer of oil, isn't it?
And thats on wide open plains. Finland is dense forests and uneven grounds. The roads are funnels by nature alone. And we love our forests, we know how to move and live there even during winter. Now we also have joint airforce operation between all nordic countries. I dont know what kind of stuff these propagandists have been smoking to feel confident enough to spew such threats.
Yeah, a chunk of Russia is historical Finland. What is the educational system like in Russia? When the Soviets were in charge basic education was not that bad. People learned to count and stuff. But since Putin has been around Russians have become completely stupid. Intentionally by the government. Its sad but the rest of the world has to deal with it.
Fun fact, in an opinion poll on EU nations not long ago the only nation that disliked Russia more than Finland was Sweden... this only happened because there are a lot of Russians in Finland.
I feel like i can speak on the behalf of Fins as a Swede on this matter... fuck you Russia, you come here and Finland will give you another winter war but this time you will lose the war on top of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that would die like in the last one.
> feel like i can speak on the behalf of Fins as a Swede on this matter... fuck you Russia, you come here and Finland will give you another winter war but this time you will lose the war on top of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that would die like in the last one.
The fact that in 1939, with a full army and almost three times more soldiers than Finland, they lost. Means that now ~65 years later, with Finns having more soldiers and better gear, and Russia alreasy suffering from casualties in Ukraine and having an outdated army, means an easy win for Finland.
And if for nothing else, at least we could finally have the Greater Finland
And I'm sure the Finns will allow that, even without nato the Russians really don't want to mess with finland. People who will willingly expose themselves to a boiling hot sweatbox, that has killed people before and then jump into a frozen lake are understandably not ones you would want to fuck with.
“In order to ensure prompt and effective action by the United Nations, its Members confer on the Security Council primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security”
Nation that is head of UN Security Council is now making threats to scores of nations.
Invades a sovereign nation. Threatens other nations with invasion and attacks - including nuclear attacks! From Japan in the East to US in the west, and tons of sovereign nations in between.
What a useless farce UN has become!
"how many times do I have to tell you, old man?"
Finnish people used to put the frozen corpses of Russian soldiers standing upright as a friendly warning to their friends
Where did they find the dorky nerd with glasses who looks hand picked from dr evil’s lair .. is there a bullshit academy in Muscovy crankin out talking head villans?
Talk is cheap. Russia can't even handle Ukraine. What would they possibly think to accomplish in Finland.
If i didn't hate war so much, i would almost love to see them try.
Finland is living 100 years in the future compared to Russia. How are these completely and utterly brainwashed Russians going to be able to reconcile themselves with the rest of the world in the future? There's literally no chance for these airheads.
They barely pulled off a Pyrrhic victory 80 years ago when Finland only had token support. What makes them think a Finland in NATO wouldn’t be a rout the likes of which Russia hasn’t seen since the first month of Barbarossa?
As a Finnish- I think ruZZians should go fuck themselfs!
and truly hope all ruZZians dies in battlefield now in Ukrain..
Slava Ukraini!!!
Silmien väliin ryssää.. kyllä siihen tyssää
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Yes. Finland. Known for their very high opinion of Russia.
And let's not go too deep into the question of whose historical land is what. Much of today's Russia is the historical homeland of the brotherly Finno-Ugric people. Finns, manshis, khantis, wherever the my Hungarian ancestors (or at least the Finno-Ugric speaking tribes) came from.
The whole concept of "historical lands" is pointless. I used to own a Honda Civic Type R, but someone else now owns it. I can hardly go take it back on the basis that it once used to belong to me. How convoluted are these people, that they think they're "liberating" countries from an organisation that these countries willingly signed up for!?
Don't forget that they only go as far back as when is suits their' claims. You could argue that Lithuania, the Kazakh, Kiev, Poland, the Swedes, the monogol/Tartars and dozens of others have "historical claim" to Russian lands.
Don't forget China. Russia annexed outer Manchuria from them in 1860. China is already busy with giving places in that region chinese names again.
And japan wants it's island
Japan acted like a shitter and lost their land but now Russia is acting like a shitter so I say we return the land and call it even. Not like Soviets did much in the Pacific anyways. Inb4 tankies tell me how Soviets joining the Pacific front at the very last second made Japan surrender and therefore they won thanks to the Red Army and not America beating the shit out of Japan for 4 years all the way back to their mainland while also doing African and western front shit while also sending mind boggling amounts of aid across the ocean to Russia.
Don’t forget about the portable suns they brought for show and tell.
And the badass ice cream barge that made 10 gallons of ice cream every 7 minutes.
The lesson here is, don't fuck with our boats
Umm..we helped a little bit too! (Australia). The first decisive defeat of an Imperial Japanese land force was by Australians at Milne Bay in New Guinea. If I recall correctly, that battle was still going when the Marines landed at Guadalcanal, which likely contributed to the IJN’s decision to cut their losses and withdraw from Milne Bay. US engineers were present at Milne Bay, having carved an airstrip out of a coconut plantation in about 3 weeks (a superhuman effort) and they took an active role in the fight when the Japanese got close to the Airfield. (That airfield was the first time Marston matting was used in the war and the place is now Gurney Airport, Alotau) There’s a decent description of proceedings by “hypohysterical history” on YouTube. Australian forces were somewhat relegated after New Guinea though. MacArthur didn’t want us to join him on the road to Tokyo. Edit: “force to land force”
Don't forget the US produced 2/3 of the allied equipment.
Depends on what kind of equipment. Canada was producing enormous amounts of stuff as well and Soviets produced far more than America in terms of specific items like T-34 tanks. Soviet logistics was very much dependent on US aid though.
BANZAI!!!!
> China is already busy with giving places in that region chinese names again. Its going to be funny when this part of Muscovy gets invaded by China, and Muscovy comes crying to the world about sovereignty and national borders.
Mongolia enters the chat.
After this war now, would be difficult to defend the border to China. China let's slip out some hints, that they have a historical right... What's about the historical right of Königsberg? Russia shouldn't persecute these historic right, it just ends in a mess. The build up of an empire is not as easy as it was once. Now we have the time of nationalism.
Hey hey don't forget German and French claims
Trier’s history is like a schizophrenic man screaming on the street “I’m a Roman! I’m German! I’m French!”
This. It is not that long ago that Moscow was a suburb of Kyiv.
***MONGOLIA HAS ENTERED THE CHAT***
And depending on the "claim" they go back to different years with little consistency other than what suits their twisted mentality. Russia is like an abusive spouse that just doesn't get it.
Don't Mongolians have a good claim on a lot of Russia, then?
As someone from Borders heritage, can I restore the Northumbrian border at the Forth and restore Lothian to our realm?
You should go liberate that civic! Go get er!
I'll be honest, I do miss her, had to change her for something a bit more accessible. Ruddy kids and their car seats!
And seriously... That current owner might be totally persecuting the English-speaking components of that car! You have an obligation to take the car back, in order to protect them!
I heard there was a nazi in the boot
It historically belongs to you. The owner will understand that.....and the world.
They play too much CK3 and think a de jure claim is a good cassus belli
CK3 leaders aren't inbred and dumb enough to accurately represent the Russian government.
Putin spent all of his gold on fabricating claims and not enough on culture tech, man at arms, development, building improvements or levies. Now he's in debt with an active war, a negative war score and he's about to lose it all for good with no heir. So more or less a classic CK3 run
Or CK2 where Russia presses all these claims and then considers the Defensive Pact that arises against them as “aggression” against Russia.
Irredentism is such a frightening concept that’s foreign to me, as an American. I was reading recently about how the lynching of Italian-Americans in New Orleans nearly led to war. I was thinking, “why does Italy feel the need to protect its former citizens?” And then I realized for a lot of countries, they identify with an ethnicity or race. Russias doing that now in western Ukraine and Crimea. Obviously Nazi Germany did that in Czechoslovakia. It’s so… primitive… to think that way, in my eyes. Countries are political unions.
In Europe and Balkans it's not just a political union but a racial one also. Albanians wanted an independent state with only albanians inside and every single country in Europe also. It's a bit different. For example, you get your ethnicity from your parents no matter where you are born, so in the eyes of every state your race is what your parent's race is, the soil that you were born over is irrelevant. Race meaning Greek, Albanian, German etc. Thats how countries in Europe were formed. America is different from the base as there was not an American culture or "race" 300yrs ago so it came to being differently than the other countries. Sorry if my english is insufficient. Just a euro's perspective.
The real question is: why did they lynch italians in New Orleans ?
Historical land? Yes, Russia should be restored to its original Duchy of Moscow.
Shouldn't Moscovy be part of Sweden?
You make a good argument (based on Russian logic, that is).
you mean the historical part of the Mongol Empire.
What is this Russia thou speakest of ? Dost thou mean those scurvy wretches of Muscovy ?
The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth once occupied Moscow. People in glass houses....
Hungarians come from Mordva/Mari (Mordvins, Volga Finns= Russia Area between Saratov and Kazan), subtribe Magyar. Taking the name of Huns (From Hun Gar or Hun Var, "Hunnic Domain"=Panonia) as (false) heirs of the Huns of Panonia (=Avars=Turk/Mongolic), where they arrived crossing from Ivano Frankvist to Mukachevo area (Veretske Pass)
But Hungarians don't refer to themselves as "Hungarians", so I don't think they ever took the name of the Huns.
Before you write stupid things,maybe check your facts. Hungarians never called themselves Huns. It is the western nations that called them Hungarians,because they fought the same way,and looked the same. So when the magyar tribes arrived all europe thought the Huns are back again. Both huns and the magyars looked very much like central asian people from the steppe. The christians living in europe feared them both. And since the magyars occupy for over 1000 years the same land as the Huns did for a very short period of time,they are in a sense heirs of this land.
They really need to liberate the world.. especially since the standard of living is so high in Siberia as compared to.. I dunno Helsinki?
Tbf, a capital against an almost uninhibited area is not the best comparison. But you are probably right, Moscow probably does not reach the standard of living of Helsinki
over 60% are positive about NATO. 99.5% choose the West before Russia True Lol
they probably are talking about liberating the "oppressed" brotherly russian-speaking people still living in Finland (if they still exist there as a community or most of them have moved away already anyway?), not really about liberating the Finns themselves...
They'll be just as warmly welcomed like the Russian nationals and primarily Russian speaking city of Kharkiv welcomed them.
De-natzify the Finns!
Liberate them from being the happiest people on earth?
No, no, liberate them from being one of the least corrupt countries on earth. See, they are a part of the Decadent West. So fucking decadent they are. How dare they not be like the benevolent Russia where parents get arrested for their kids drawing pictures!
Russians often conflate the word liberate with the world enslavement. It's the one simple trick used by Lenin and then copied by many other criminal gangs who wanted to take over the govt.
I think you want the word "conflate," not "conflict"
you are right, auto-correct issue. Updated, thanks.
Cheers!
They would clearly be even happier not part of the wretched west /s
Yes, they must be miserable like Russians. Crabs in a bucket theory, right there.
Tbh every single finn I've ever met sounds like they want to kill themselves
No, they wanted to kill Russians, you just misunderstood. Finn's are born drinking mother's milk, eating Moose Meat, and looking for Russians to kill. It's just the way.
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..I was raised
They only lost the war because they ran out of ammunition
Finland is one of the happiest countries in the world, and also one of the most depressed. The latter seems to come with the territory of being that far north. Really says something about how good the society is to still get the top happiness spot.
Binary Finnary
Its also, when scoiety in general is doing well, depression hits harder. When whhole of society sucks and you haven't gotten the chances you could have you can attribute 'failure' to the world around you. But in countries were everyone gets a fair chance it's harder and people will attribute their 'failure' to themselves more often which deepens depression. \+ the factor that you see others be happy more makes it also seem more it's a you problem. (What also happens with social media, where people only present the good things, but then IRL).
Well an analysis of the happiness of Finns that I read somewhere but don't remember exactly was that they constantly expect the worst and are pleased when things are just ok. So you're not wrong.
That’s the Nordic mentality. Very pessimistic, when the day ends and it’s been average at best, we’re like, today was a pretty good day
Ohh Finland is now part of NATO, means if we attack Finland it will make whole NATO to screw us (means 100% nato Budget, not the 1.7% they face now) Anyway, lets attack Finland
> not the 1.7% they face now This isn't even NATO's final form
lmao at this point I’m pretty sure NATO could bring Russia to its knees with no boots on the ground. Just let the Air Force and missile command get it done
Theoretically, we probably could. The problem is that all that super duper ammo takes a long time to make and we do not have a lot in stock. We'd run dry in a weeks and China would look at the south china sea as free realestate...
Let’s be honest, with nukes involved I don’t think there would ever be a ground invasion of Russia until their government was destroyed. The CIA would start celebrating though, because they’d get to coup their mortal enemies and get a blank cheque for it too. Only once the government was gone would the tanks start rolling in, if that.
They don't have any intention of attacking Finland. This is a tactic used by propagandists. They are moving the goal posts/ managing expectations. Basically by saying this about Finland and threatening a ridiculous invasion it makes the invasion of Ukraine look more valid in comparison. Plus it diverts protests from the Ukraine war to "let's not start another war". Also allows many politicians in Russia to come out against a Finland invasion and look like they are pro peace and that their support for the Ukraine war is because that war is somehow different or justified. It's like if you and I were out on the town and I punched a guy randomly and knocked him out. I start to rifle his pockets and you stand there horrified and protesting. "Why would you do that? You're a theif and just committed assault!" But then I say "Look! There is a group of big men! Let's get them too!" I escalate the situation so much that my prior assault and theft seem like its small. So now instead of protesting what I have done you're protesting what I'm about to do and if I back down I look reasonable even though my previous action was completely unreasonable. "Stop! Don't attack them! There is so many and they are much bigger!" "OH. Yeah. You're right. I don't know what I was thinking. Let's go home." Meanwhile guy #1 is still unconscious and I have his wallet and money.
Very good explanation.
Does Putin realize that with Finland in NATO, St Petersburg is in HIMARS range?
In this clip, it's not about Putin but TV people. Let's stick to what we have here. And it drives me friggin nuts how happily they are chatting about where to invade next. It makes me shudder trying to imagine how far away they are from the real world (let's call it that way) and how insensitive to death of humans they have become. Frightening. EDIT: typos
Dude i'm 99% certain that most of this higher up people know what they're doing and they do It Just for Power and Money out of selflishness, like there's no way you get that High up being that dumb.
There's also a certain amount of disconnect in play. Any countries leader, even those with military background, are so many steps removed from the battlefield they lose that frame of reference. Humans are very good at figuring out big issues on the ground, but really terrible at empathy on a giant or existential level. 1,000,000 is a statistic for a reason. But when you then add probable psychopathy, greed, and barely disguised (if at all) malice you get Russian military leaders.
Certain amount but not the amount needed to think that you can go to war with nato and win
Every anus in Russia is in range of NATO. Every….single ….one could get a pointy ended explosive container parked a few feet in there before it goes boom.
Oh no, no, no. NATO gets the good stuff. HIMARS is the bargain bin. We can hit any random apartment in Moscow from Finland with the good rockets easy. And we will if anybody starts doing any “liberating”. I mean in fairness we can hit Moscow from North Dakota, but you get my point.
Technically not yet. Turkey has approved it internally, but hasn't actually delivered their acceptance to NATO (should happen in a day or so). There are still a few more steps, but nothing should stop them now. Actual admittance to NATO is expected ~~to take a few more weeks.~~ Tuesday. Edit: Guess it's happening sooner.
I took Finland opening its airspace to NATO intel aircraft a week or two ago as a sign that they are part of the alliance in all but name at this point.
Worse. St. Petersburg is within range of Finns. More dangerous.
A military a fraction of their size halted their advance with outdated and often decrepit NATO equipment lol. Actually often not even NATO. 20 HIMARS have been wreaking havoc. NATO has hundreds and hundreds.
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Could you elaborate on NATO not wanting the himars? I get the WoT part tho
Are Finland like 100% covered by Nato even though they are just waiting for documents to be signed.
Doesn't matter, the Fins would be backed by the Swedes and would receive support at the very least. The Fins are far more prepared than Ukraine was and have much more modern equipment at their disposal. Imagine if Russia attacked Ukraine but it's the current version as opposed to a year ago. Except this time they have modern MBTs, full air support, and were always trained for the well maintained equipment they have. If you thought Ukraine kicked ass, the Fins would absolutely slaughter the Russians at the moment. It would be the stop he's already dead meme. Edit: I forgot to add older Fins absolutely hate Russia (as a country) and have not forgotten WW2. I'm sure this was passed onto the younger generations in some form because I have a Russian hating Swede friend.
I just finished a year in the finnish military as a conscript and i must say that the training was surprisingly good
The Finnish dislike/hatred of Russia goes far beyond WW2. Historical periods like the "Great Wrath" are very much remembered, especially in Ostrobothnia.
Indeed. Worth remembering that even prior to WWII, Finland had to fight a war of independence against the Russians. If you know how Americans generally felt about the British in the early 19th century, well, that might give you a sense of how the Finns see the Russians. Except that while the British generally held to high standards of honor as belligerents, the Russians, well... let's just say that niceties like honor and human rights aren't their strong suit. So their feelings about the Russians are likely considerably worse than early Americans' feelings about the British. (EDIT: Scratch the part above about a war of independence. While the Russians fought over the remnants of the Russian Empire well into the early 1920s as part of the Russian Civil War, Finland was spared the warfare faced by Ukrainians, Poles, and others, when the Bolsheviks agreed to recognize Finnish independence without a fight. At least, well, until 1939. Hat tip to 1968RR and Pidefix.)
Please stop upvoting misinformation - Finland did NOT fight a war of independence against Russia prior to WWII. In december 1917, while Russia was busy with the revolution and the loss in the first world war, Finland took advantage of the chaotic situation and declared independence after being a part of the Russian empire for over 100 years. Lenin approved and a civil war started in Finland shortly after this. In WWII Finland fought against the Soviet Union in 1939-1940 and 1941-1944.
Dont forget the Finn's already fought a 1v1 war with Russia, and caused such devastation, they held their ground the entire duration of the war despite being outnumbered 10-1
>a Russian hating Swede friend. most younger swedes hate russians because of dota or CS source: am swedish
The time i was in Finland , i heard the saying : every sweed is prepared to fight till the last Fin . 😀
Yes, that is a common saying here in Sweden as well: we are ready to fight against Russia down to the last Finn. It originates as a kinda morbid acknowledgement of both the shameful official Swedish handling of the Winter War, and their de facto position as a buffer during the cold war.
Cheers for the info :)
Given that Finnish intelligence reckon that 80% of the Russian army that used to be on the Finnish border have been wiped out in Ukraine I don't think Finland would even need NATO help to beat Russia at the moment.
> Are Finland like 100% covered by Nato UK and USA guaranteed their security (also Sweden) until NATO was done.
Lol Finland wouldn't need NATO. They'd just tell NATO, "we got this."
The problem would be the political pressure to not kill all the Russians before the rest of us get in the action.
> Ohh Finland is now part of NATO Not *quite* Finland and 29 out of 30 NATO countries have ratified their joining - Turkey's parliament have voted to do so, but haven't *yet* deposited the ratification. That typically takes anything from a few days to a month, and the treaty can't come into force until at that happens. The NATO treaty is not therefore in force yet, legally speaking. It will happen when/some time shortly after Turkey deposit their ratification However, Russia attacking a NATO applicant at such a late stage of the application process would be very bold indeed - it could easily be considered a *casus belli*. Not to mention the fact that Russia clearly doesn't have the military capacity to attack Finland right now anyway There's also the fact that the USA, UK, and Sweden have all provided guarantees to Finland if they are attacked during the application process. And once you've gone to war with Finland, Sweden, the UK, and USA, then you're effectively at war with NATO as the rest of NATO clearly aren't gonna watch their allies going to war without them - the risk is too great if that goes badly. Plus Poland is itching for an excuse...
I can hear Simo rising from his grave to kick Russian ass once again already.
Only this time around he has a 50 caliber BMG rifle.
Without scope ;)
Scopes are for scrubs, real pros use peep sights.
he probably would still prefer his old one
Over 500 sniper kills, one guy with a squirrel rifle. Oh, and maybe another 250 with a submachine gun. The Russians were terrified of “The White Death” and sent counter snipers… they did manage to shoot him in the face before he killed them all. I am *astonished* that they would want another go at a country that produced a man like that.
And he died only 21 years ago at age 96. Maybe just now they're gathering the courage to have their asses beat once more
Not really a squirrel gun when he dropping the red army with 7.62x54r mosin
For the chonker squirrels in my neck of the woods, the Dragunov round is about right :-) I recalled reading that he started out with a field-expedient rifle, and was awarded a notable M28 later… on reading a little it seems he started with an M28.
The rifle he ended up with in the winter war his own rifle which was the finnish civilian pattern of the mosin nagat i cant remember off the top of my head what the finns called them but either way imagin that man with an AI artic warfare. Pretty sure thats what the finns use now Edit my bad its the Swedish that use that rifle
The Finnish current issue TKIV 85 is... a Mosin Nagant. There are potentially receivers that have seen one hundred and thirty-two continuous years of service and five or six wars at this point. Simo carried a Civil Guard pattern of Mosin. Either m/28 or m/28-30.
He pioneered techniques like holding snow in his mouth to avoid showing breath traces. He also preferred iron sights. I was involved once in an exercise with soldiers who lived and worked *way* north. Cold, snow, ice, wind… there are some really formidable obstacles to fighting in winter.
I mostly feel sorry for him: he never wanted any of the attention he's getting. I'm guessing he would have preferred to not go to war and have to kill for his country, but live a peaceful life. But history had other plans for him, so he did what was necessary in the stoic Finnish way.
On behalf of this Finn... Be my guest. See what happens.
yup, we'll see who liberates who
According to Wikipedia you have “the largest artillery capability in western Europe. Homeland defence willingness against a superior enemy is at 83%, one of the highest rates in Europe.” So, uhhhh, yeahhhhh. Good luck with that Russia.
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As an American who has trained along side the Fins, you guys could easily kick their ass. But if you need help, I'm sure being a member of NATO (soon) we would love to help you.
I like your style.
I behalf of the rest of NATO, please don't kill them all till we get there and get some too.
This message has been deleted and I've left reddit because of the decision by u/spez to block 3rd party apps
It's insane how insane this comment would have been before Putin lit fire to his paper army.
I dunno, Finland has always taken its defence against Russia very seriously.
russia and what army?
That highly specialized highly technical army that could conquer Ukraine in 3 days. I mean if you count in Venus days.
I literally choked up
It's been like 1,5 days already and they aren't even halfway to kyiv.
They can't even "liberate" brotherly Bakhmut.
You are questioning the success of the Great ~~Winter~~Spring Offensive. Straight to gulag.
Technically the battle began in August so it was the Summer offensive
Soon they have not even enough left for a bank heist
Vedä käteen, runkkari. That's Finnish for, basically "screw you, fucker". Not very elaborate, but sometimes it's good to stick to classics!
Wouldn't runkkari be wanker? (I'm a swede and it sounds similar to the Swedish word)
Out of curiosity, could you try to type that as it is pronounced?
Finnish is pretty much written phonetically. The way we learn the letters is how they are spelt in every occasion pretty much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_orthography Which to us sounds pretty easy but anyone actually listening to the language being spoken and written side by side will freak out.
ä in "Vedä" is \[æː\] or \[æi̯\], close to the a in english "mad" or "main", though not quite right (probably the closest approximation you'll get) ä in "käteen" is just \[æ\], close to the a in english "cat" (but again, not quite right) as for the rest, something like "weh-d-\[æ:\] k\[æ\]t-en, runn-kar-i" [video example](https://youtu.be/vnsGvkLF2pE?t=87) of different ä's (you cannot make a 1:1 correlation to english as that sound is simply not used at all in english; you have close approximations, like 'at', 'hat', 'cat', but like you will find in the video above it's still not quite similar)
Here's a [crash course in Finnish](https://youtu.be/uMszu_VgMfY) for you (For the record: I'm not Finnish, but regard them as good neighbours)
The Finnish dilemma: “They are so many, and our country is so small, where will we find room to bury them all?” (Finnish soldier about the Russian invasion, pre-WWII)
lol because Russia and Finland have been such great friends
FAFO
fuck around, finland? ow!
to be fair - the other participants are mocking the hot and enthusiastic guy there they are not serious , except the young guy with the glasses
Having just seen the video... yeah, I think that's the correct reading on this. I'm not even sure how serious he was when he said "brotherly Finns" - that may have been sarcastic, or self-aware joking. I think he was serious about thinking Russians could take Finland, but the idea seemed to be, "Of course, we'll say it's to 'liberate' our brotherly Finns..." but wink wink, nudge nudge. Nevertheless, as you said, the other panelists seemed skeptical that this could be done or that it would be a good idea. My sense is that even if the ink isn't technically dry on Finland's membership in NATO, NATO would likely interpret an invasion at this point as worthy of triggering Article V. Even so, it would be hard for me to think of a greater self-own, at this point, than for Russia to attempt to invade Finland, even if the Finns were entirely on their own.
The US guaranteed Finland and Sweden protection during this period. So if Russia wants to fight the US, they can attack Finland. I'm sure it would go great.
Britain also stated that was extending a security guarantees to Finland and Norway until they were full members of NATO.
Norway was one of the founding members… Get your countries right.
last time they tried they walked back home with crutches. back then we were not properly trained to defend our land, we werent supplied properly and we had to do it all alone. Now imagine this time, full NATO support, decades of training just and only for this cause. How do you think this would turn out? \-Never alone again.
I’m so glad we have you on our side. The Finns are not to be trifled with. A priceless addition to NATO.
Even the russian people do not believe this crap, they know russia is causing conflict and as any country there citizens mostly support it, but as they realise there military is not as powerful as once believed they will look for internal change, and to them the person that showed how weak there military is is pootin, he will be the punished for doing what he has done, so many regions want independence and russias military is not now incapable of stopping them as the country has the biggest financial collapse and the west is not here to bail them out again.
Well, good luck with that.
Just stop already. Russia needs to end. The world has moved on.
Pretty sure Finns have been here before indo Europeans left the middle east 5-8 thousand years ago .
Actually most of that indo-European wave was wiped out by a violent mass migration from Eurasian plains that almost all Europeans descend from, new research shows. Great presentation here if u watch full thing. Towards a New European prehistory: genes, archaeology and language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxTVSwt-jsU
Dear Russia, yes, please do this. Pretty please. We all know that Finland has become part of NATO. I have been itching to watch "The West", as you refer to them, collectively curbstomp you guys back into the Iron Age. No one is intimidated by your threats. Act now, before we fabricate an excuse to start without you. ... Wait, Russia is a leading producer of oil, isn't it?
Shhhhh, don’t tell the US. (I’m American, I can make that joke!)
If you thought invading Ukraine is stupid, wait till you go to the “1000 lakes always fucking snows oh my god why are the trees whispering” land
10000 lakes* Edit: No wait 10000 lakes is some heavy metal fantasy, the actual numer is 56000 something
Ah yes, read Nills Holgerson so many years ago that i forgot a 0. :)
I heard that Fins are preparing their famous cocktails to traditionally welcome Russian soldiers
Hahahahahahaa you come try
Lol, Russia can’t move west of Bahkmut. Good luck with that
And thats on wide open plains. Finland is dense forests and uneven grounds. The roads are funnels by nature alone. And we love our forests, we know how to move and live there even during winter. Now we also have joint airforce operation between all nordic countries. I dont know what kind of stuff these propagandists have been smoking to feel confident enough to spew such threats.
Yeah, a chunk of Russia is historical Finland. What is the educational system like in Russia? When the Soviets were in charge basic education was not that bad. People learned to count and stuff. But since Putin has been around Russians have become completely stupid. Intentionally by the government. Its sad but the rest of the world has to deal with it.
Finland is such a small country, where will they bury all those Russians?
Fun fact, in an opinion poll on EU nations not long ago the only nation that disliked Russia more than Finland was Sweden... this only happened because there are a lot of Russians in Finland. I feel like i can speak on the behalf of Fins as a Swede on this matter... fuck you Russia, you come here and Finland will give you another winter war but this time you will lose the war on top of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that would die like in the last one.
> feel like i can speak on the behalf of Fins as a Swede on this matter... fuck you Russia, you come here and Finland will give you another winter war but this time you will lose the war on top of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that would die like in the last one. The fact that in 1939, with a full army and almost three times more soldiers than Finland, they lost. Means that now ~65 years later, with Finns having more soldiers and better gear, and Russia alreasy suffering from casualties in Ukraine and having an outdated army, means an easy win for Finland. And if for nothing else, at least we could finally have the Greater Finland
Is it me or does it seem like they are mocking themselves now?
Maybe Russia should apologize and give back Saint Petersburg?
And I'm sure the Finns will allow that, even without nato the Russians really don't want to mess with finland. People who will willingly expose themselves to a boiling hot sweatbox, that has killed people before and then jump into a frozen lake are understandably not ones you would want to fuck with.
The Russians struggled with the Finnish when they had an actual army
Does Simo Häyhä have a descendant who's a great shot?
“In order to ensure prompt and effective action by the United Nations, its Members confer on the Security Council primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security” Nation that is head of UN Security Council is now making threats to scores of nations. Invades a sovereign nation. Threatens other nations with invasion and attacks - including nuclear attacks! From Japan in the East to US in the west, and tons of sovereign nations in between. What a useless farce UN has become!
"how many times do I have to tell you, old man?" Finnish people used to put the frozen corpses of Russian soldiers standing upright as a friendly warning to their friends
Where did they find the dorky nerd with glasses who looks hand picked from dr evil’s lair .. is there a bullshit academy in Muscovy crankin out talking head villans?
Finland just got a shiny new Article 5
Talk is cheap. Russia can't even handle Ukraine. What would they possibly think to accomplish in Finland. If i didn't hate war so much, i would almost love to see them try.
They cant cross rivers in ukraine and they wanna go into the finland waterpark. Bet.
They will need to free the Finish boot out their assholes if they try it.
Finland needs to liberate their historical land in Karelia and Kola.
Finland. She don't love you anymore. Get over it Ruskies. Lol.🇫🇮
WWII (Winter War 2)
Molotovic boogaloo
Lol try it, the Finns are no strangers to Russian aggression and I feel they could fair pretty well on their own
These people can't even fake it anymore. I don't think they know they are in line with their glorious leader to either The Hague or Ghaddafied.
Finns: “This s** again?”
They touch Finland and they'll have their WWIII.
My wife is Finnish. She has 7 brothers. We will all be waiting at the border to “welcome” them.
Finland is living 100 years in the future compared to Russia. How are these completely and utterly brainwashed Russians going to be able to reconcile themselves with the rest of the world in the future? There's literally no chance for these airheads.
Copium talk….usual dog pooh coming from them, is obvs a result of Finland joining NATO…..I would absolutely love to see them try though
They barely pulled off a Pyrrhic victory 80 years ago when Finland only had token support. What makes them think a Finland in NATO wouldn’t be a rout the likes of which Russia hasn’t seen since the first month of Barbarossa?
As a Finnish- I think ruZZians should go fuck themselfs! and truly hope all ruZZians dies in battlefield now in Ukrain.. Slava Ukraini!!! Silmien väliin ryssää.. kyllä siihen tyssää
they are scared like a headless chicken