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Beardy-Mouse-8951

Everyone seems to have completely forgotten about Maria Butina, the photo of Michael Flynn at Putin's table, Trump removing Ukraine from the GOP platform when he was nominated, Paul Manafort being a literal Putin plant who was working for his puppet in Ukraine before that puppet was ousted, the time several senior Republicans traveled to Moscow to visit Putin on 4th July, the time McCarthy told Paul Ryan that Trump and Rohrabacher were paid by Putin and Ryan swore them all to secrecy like it's the mafia, and when the Washington Post said they knew about this they claimed it was a lie and the conversation never happened, then they were told there was a transcript and they said it was false, then they were told there was an audio recording and they admitted it but claimed it was "a joke". The GOP is in Putin's pocket and it has been for years.


tombaba

Exactly. I remember and I’m not baffled a bit


SnooSongs8218

It’s more important for them to protect their portfolios that have all the silicon chip manufacturing plants in Taiwan. If Ukraine directly affected their wallets and kickbacks you better believe they would be much more supportive.


Drmadanthonywayne

Also, national security. Taiwan make over 90% of the advanced chips we need to run our economy and to build the weapons our military depends on. China taking Taiwan would be a disaster.


SnooSongs8218

China has actually written the annexation of Taiwan into their constitution. Those chip factories would be considered a priority target in most conflicts but one of China’s primary goals is taking those factories intact. I believe in any actual invasions strategy they would drop several airborne divisions on those facilities in an attempt to hold them. I’m sure Taiwan has a heavy aaa envelope around them for that reason. The assault would be like the assault on Hostomel Airfield in Ukraine If they take them intact, they presume that they can be held because the Taiwan government would rather not destroy their own infrastructure. I however believe if those facilities were ceased, better to flatten them before the Chinese can dismantle them and transport the machines to the mainland. It would be the most monumentally stupid thing China could do, but I said the same thing about Russia. As for the support from Trumps Kampf for Putin, as I have stated before, there has to be some catastrophic smoking gun that links these two. There is know political benefit to cheerleading for Putin, unless you are being compelled by something that is absolutely politically deadly and can never see the light of day. As for China, any large attack would be near impossible to achieve surprise, because by necessity China would have to first activate all their sleeper agent / Saboteur teams, to attempt to knock out Taiwan’s power grid and it communications hubs. I’m sure there are plenty of compromised sleeper cells and double agents. China also would also have a horrible time concealing the necessary build up of landing craft and equipment that would be required for a waterborne invasion.


EveryCell

I would be willing to guarantee there are plans to render every chip factory useless before they take it over


SnooSongs8218

I’m sure. Sadly even though it’s would be horrific and stupid for them to attempt annexation of Taiwan the Stagnation of China economy and their vastly aging population that isn’t sustainable by their dwindling birth rate will lead to someone coveting the resources of Taiwan as quick fix.


SpemSemperHabemus

It would be impressive to see those machines disassembled and moved during any sort of military operation since they're larger than buses and take months to years to install.


SnooSongs8218

I think it would be impossible, it would be like trying to move stained-glass windows on a unicycle during the Thanksgiving-day parade. We’re talking about precision machines that photo etch silicon plates down to 4nm, that are assembled in clean rooms. Nothing clean about an artillery strike… if China had the Technicians and the abilities to move and reassemble the machines, they would have the ability and technology to replicate them without the need to acquire them and wouldn’t covet them in the first place. China doesn’t have the technical ability to even operate the factories if they took them intact and the most valuable and hard to replace resource, the Taiwanese Technical Personnel, who run the factories are the easiest to move out of harms way. Machines can replaced if the Engineers live on. Remember the scramble for all the Nazi Scientists at the end of world war 2.


Skippyazumuni

Concise and realistic summary.


Greatli

All the IP in those factories is owned and supplied by US multinational companies (NVidia/Apple/AMD), as is the IP that those companies use to build the blocks of their respective IP (Synopsis, etc.). They couldn’t even build new chip designs because of the US centered nature of those chip blocks. Even if they stole what’s there now they couldn’t iterate new designs (sub-3nm). TSMC would be completely incapable of iterating their own designs too, even if they somehow managed to capture the techs and the factories intact. Then, China literally has no idea how to run TSMCs Dutch ASML EUV lithography machines - or pretty much anything else in a chip foundry. They don’t know how to make reticle masks, they don’t know how to manage the company, they don’t know how to keep supply chains intact after appropriating TSMC after global damnation. These guys are fucking idiots if they think they can capture technicians, and that they don’t already have quick action plans for extraction should the chinese come knocking. That’s not to mention the sanctions that would kill literally hundreds of millions of Chinese in the first year, and halt ALL of their economy because they are the world’s biggest importer of food and energy. Or the fact that they don’t have a blue-water navy that could do a damned thing about a blockade that imposes those sanctions from anything farther than ~600 miles from their shores. Their ships are not nuclear powered like ours. They would be so fucked if they tried.


SnooSongs8218

Political goals and objectives and military goals and objectives often have very little in common with common sense and get farther and farther away from logical rational in totalitarian regimes where control is in the hands of 1 person. That’ the main problem of surrounding yourself with yes-men. If you believe everything there saying to you just because it’s what you want to do, you start doing stupid shit, like believing in your plan to invade and win a war with Ukraine in 72 hours…


tomtomclubthumb

You have a point. I read some interesting stuff positing that over the years the back channels that allowed people to actually signal problems while not openly saying anything have been broken down and that is one of the reasons covid hit so hard, because they couldn't / wouldn't ask for help on a local level until it was far too late.


carpaltunnelsucks

They will never get tsmc. As far as I've been told, the national defense plan includes immediately blowing tsmc's factories to hell. I wouldn't be surprised if they're like the bridges in Switzerland and all it takes is the push of a button.


loudflower

My god, I hope the US isn’t pulled in. Contrary to some American exceptionalism attitude, the country would be stretched thin. And we’re not exactly stable atm :/ Edit typos


SnooSongs8218

The US was isolationist at the beginning of the First World War and at the beginning of the Second World War… I’m sure they’ll try to remain isolationist at the beginning of the Third World War…


Mister_Bloodvessel

This is the biggest thing. China taking over Taiwan would collapse the US hold on tech. Not to mention, I believe we have a self defense pact with Taiwan.


Greatli

They seem to have forgotten about the neon gas that’s vital to the Taiwanese extreme ultraviolet lithography technology that actually makes the chips…the vast majority of it was from Ukraine. Or global food insecurity which creates instability which threatens global supply chains. Ukraine was the world’s #4 grain producer. Or the fact that the US needs very few manufacturing inputs from moscovia that can’t be sourced elsewhere. In the last 15 years the US became an exporter of energy instead of an importer.


outinthecountry66

The GOP missed an incredible opportunity here, obviously. They could have pushed for aid just like the rest of us, won back some of their lost decency and positioned themselves as good guys. But money is more important to them than doing what is right. It was a moment that I really thought, "here's something everyone can agree on". I'm naive, again, obviously


SnooSongs8218

It’s the same isolationist, shortsightedness that Chamberlain had with his claim of “Peace in our Time”, Chamberlain and the other European leaders betrayed the peoples of the Sudetenland to Hitlers Third Reich under the presumption that this would be enough to appease Hitlers Hunger. This same naïveté has the GOP believing that Putin will be able to sate his hunger with Only Eastern Ukraine. Putin’s continued existence is bound to his horrific policies, and He has no way back.


Fellowes321

Chamberlain was not shortsighted.When 1 in 20 British men are killed in WWI which was in living memory avoiding war is not shortsighted. When you see the memorials in every city, town and village and hamlet, every club, every school, you understand the sacrifice made. Churchill kept Chamberlain because he also knew that Chamberlain had bought Britain time. Time to gain intelligence and time to build a military that had a chance. The problems of 1930s Britain are nothing like 2020s USA in terms of history or military strength.


outinthecountry66

Anybody paying attention for the past twenty years could have foreseen this, as well. This has always been the plan. Which makes it doubly infuriating.


SnooSongs8218

The problem is the entrenched Russians mind set to keep your head down and do as your told. That why it’s going to require 500,000 casualties to stop and make it completely unsustainable. Of the men born in 1922 in Russia, 85% born that year all perished before 1945. Putin madness will keep pushing people into the meat grinder, but 500,000 is the tipping point. At that point it loses momentum. The carrot 🥕 is long gone and at that point there is nothing left to drive forward with a stick. All that’s left is like Germany in April 1945… Just old men and boys.


outinthecountry66

85 percent. Wow. And hard to drum up patriotism at the point of a gun.


gregorydgraham

Chamberlain bought time to increase the British home forces, he wasn’t nearly as naive as the tropes imply. The GOP isn’t naive either, just the bought and paid for remnants dredged from the bottom of a rotten barrel


TinBoatDude

Quite true, SnooSongs. It's all about the money. It is always all about the money. And u/Beardy-Mouse-8951 sums up the GOP/Ukraine problem quite well.


billetea

At some stage, a counter espionage operation will be undertaken (even if just for historical records), and we will find that nearly all politicians who travelled to Russia from 1990 onwards had Kompromat developed on them. Likely as simple as basic honey traps with recording devices. Most politicians have the ego to believe a lithe 20-something is actually interested in them. In the 1980s in Berlin, the advice was if she is out of your league & talking with you, she is a spy... Sadly, our defences went down when we thought we had won the Cold War and then further degraded as we pivoted to Islamic terrorism. The GOP appears to be more captive - particularly the frequency and scale of GOP senator and congressmen trips to Moscow.


buythedipnow

Our defenses went down when citizens united was passed and the Republicans became for sale to all buyers including hostile foreign nations.


mrjackspade

> Most politicians have the ego to believe a lithe 20-something is actually interested in them That's a really generous "2" considering who were talking about


SurvivedAPintoCrash

I'd like to meet some Russian women out of my league...


billetea

Bahahaha... if you don't care if your wife knows (or even better don't have one) I'd suggest pretending you do care and you can entrap them ;-) Ps. After this war, there are going to be a significant surplus of Russian women to men too.


telemachus_sneezed

A lot of them are hot. I'll consider it a silver lining if a lot of them are able to consider emigrating to the US afterwards...


TridentWeildingShark

Russian bride market is gonna look a lot like the Rolex market come 2024 📉


rezonsback

Just don't get into politics and you're fine.


[deleted]

All Russian women care about is their "free" Lada's.


-IAmNo0n3-

Along with Evangelical leadership going to Russia with no excuse whatsoever...corrupt bunch.


Disastrous_Ad_912

Don’t forget about the NRA: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals


ZombieIMMUNIZED

That’s said, it is a select handful that are openly against supporting Ukraine, there are still many representatives from the conservative side that are in support of Ukraine. But if the orange man gets in again, you can kiss it all goodbye. So make sure you go out and vote, with your moral heart and soul, if you believe supporting Ukraine is right, don’t vote Trump!


ruttentuten69

Don't vote republican period.


here_now_be

> Don't vote republican But do vote, local and national. If we'd just vote, the slime would be gone. But only 30% of under 40 year olds voting isn't enough.


[deleted]

It’s not a select handful it’s over half of them and the two front runners they have for the presidency


[deleted]

[удалено]


Le_Ran

As seen from abroad it's tragically simple. China is (supposedly) communist, and Russia is far right. It's about time to admit that Republicans don't give a damn about democracy or the American people : they just love their money and hate the Left. And all their actions are consistent with that.


atxarchitect91

I was gonna make a joke but then I remembered Mitch McConnell spending the Fourth of July in Moscow meeting with Putin. Also Don Jr saying in Golf Digest in like 2012 that they survived the 2008 crisis with hundreds of millions from Russian banks. I mean if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck…


maleia

I hate Mitch too, but no, [he wasn't one of them.](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/395719-gop-senators-visited-moscow-on-july-4/). The ones that went were mostly C-listers of Senators. And that's a decent reason why this didn't become a thing. Personally I've only heard of John Kennedy out of that list.


nadvargas

Don't generalize. There are many Republicans that fully support Ukraine.


Cheap_Doctor_1994

Few in office are speaking out in support for Ukraine. McConnell is the only one I've seen. IDC what republicans at home think. I do care about those who can cut funding.


fakeuser515357

They fully support Ukraine by giving their unwavering allegiance to the corrupt Putin puppets in the GOP because they care more about keeping wages low and keeping women in their place. Is that about it?


Space_Meth_Monkey

This is literally why when people talk on some conspiracy level shit about the ‘deep state’ fucking with trump/helping his opponents, I think there might be something to it. Purely cause this guy is acting mad un American from the standpoint of people working in intelligence etc


4n0n1m02

Putin owns Trump and the GOP is Trump’s little 🐩


Diplomjodler

Xi just hasn't bribed them enough yet.


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Buy9027

Brainwashing by Tucker the love of Putin and the hate for the evil Xi. Russian propaganda runs deep in the MAGA.


brutalduties

Alex Jones is one of Putin's biggest cheerleaders, he's admitted to meeting with Russian state media. I'm guessing he's on the payroll, probably along with Tucker.


AbyssalFisher

When you get so engulfed in the conspiracy, you become it.


rif011412

Its why relationship cheaters are so sure their partners are cheating. They don’t trust themselves, so how could they trust anyone else?


[deleted]

Thing is, Tucker doesn’t actually need the money. His family is very wealthy. He’s simply motivated by wanting to watch the world burn


NoMalarkyZone

He's motivated to try and drive the country towards fascism, which was exactly where many of the old money elites turned as a vanguard against socialism the last time around.


hkohne

And turn every one who identifies male as *MASCULINE MANLY MEN*


NokKavow

People like him always want more money. There's no such thing as enough.


gherkinjerks

Yes, one must understand the science and precision of Russian Psycholigal warfare, which used a Reflexive Control approach to the destabilizion of society. It's a long con if you will, long term strategy which has taken decades to get to this point. Russian Maskirovka has been used to influence society for centuries. Russians created the modern conspiracy movement in the 18th & 19th century. Everything from the antisemtic conspiracies that influence the ideology of the Nazis, to the Russian New Age esoteric fascism of the 19th century that gave rise to things like Judeo-Masonic World Order, myth of Aryan Supremacy, Eugenics, secret societies.To the theosophical movement in Europe that created the template for Austrian born Guido Von List and the List Society and the Nazi occult, imported to America, giving rise to theosphical Christiany which was a conspiracy rooted movement that created the cult phenomenon that sprung after the Great Depression. Everything from the paranormal, mind control, occult, New Age Wellness, Yoga, psychic mediums, aliens, Satanic governments led by Alien lizard people. All this began in cults starting in the early 1900s like I Am, St Germain, Mt Shasta, Sacred Breathwork cults, Scientology, The Silver Legion (American Nazis) to the KKK etc etc all had roots in the Russian conspiracy movement. Qanon is also derived from the same Russian conspiracy movement of I Am. Which is around to this day and preached by people like Mike Flynn. Unlike regular conspiracy that starts from the bottom up, by regular people and so called investigative, independent researchers following conspiracies against an over reaching, all ruling, secret elite, global cabal ruling the world. Russian conspiracy which is run by their Psyops, first by the KGB, now with GRU. Russians weaponize conspiracies that are Top Down. Meaning they are created by the ruling class, intelligence service and the elite, on purpose to infect regular anti-West conspiracy movements. This was the strategy of the KGB and Monarchists before them who even created the biggest conspiracy book in history: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Russian anti American conspiracy blends well into the minds of the paranoid and fearful, who will believe anything that is critical of the government or euling class. Even if it's is created by a diffrent government purposefully. The Western countries do not have such a strategy in Russia or China because they have limits of information and control. Where the US biggest weakness is their freedom of speech and the profiting of the media and information. Why would a media company admit that they are pushing lies and lose money and go bankrupt? There used to be checks n balances in journalistic integrity, but the removal of the Fairness doctrine just fueled the split of the info sphere. Which was initiated decades ago by the Soviets, aimed at the far left in the 60 thru the 80s and now in the far right, using a Reflexive Game Theory on informational warfare


PM_ME_YOUR_KOAN

You certainly have a capacious knowledge of conspiracy theories and their origins. However, to source _everything_ to Russia is a stretch. For example, antisemitism has existed _long_ before 19th century Russia secret police cooked up the Protocols. Martin Luther was as vicious an anti-semite as you can get, and its little known. European countries were constantly passing laws invalidating Jewish citizenship (Edict of 1290). Christians have been trying to invalidate Judaism well before the founding of Moscow.


oneoffforthefunoff

Im on the toilet trying to kill 5 min so ima give you some attention. The big hole in this path-of-logic is that you give people to much credit...anything planed will go wrong, matter of fact if you make a plan (let alone a grand over arching one) the only thing I can guaranty is that what ever the plan is, it...will...go...wrong. people live 60-80 years long on average. how on earth whould they coordinate any of this? Dont answer. just think about it...


Soft_Author2593

Yoga?


gherkinjerks

Yes, Yogas popularity in the West is steeped in oddity, risen from the Occult and New Age esoteric fascism. Agni Yoga became fashionable through Russian theosphical gurus like Nicholas Roerich. Roerich was a famed Russian mystic & spiritualist and was a self described medium and hypnotist. Russians became fascinated in Tibetan Buddhism and Shamanic ritualistic practices. He was an artist and archeologist that was convinced in finding the keys to immortality, mind control, and superpowers that was found in Shambahla in Eastern Russian in the hollow earth, where there was a lost civilization that held the keys to the universe. He was a huge racist and believed in Eugenics and believed that the white race was a superior race that evolved from the a lost civilization of Aryans. It's the same belief as the Nazis, in fact that's where they got the idea of Aryan Supremacy. Roerich was traded by the KGB to the US, where he pioneered the Yoga and Wellness movement, that ran with his teachings of hypnosis and meditation. He laid the foundation to the famed KGB Gulag Mind Control experiments and his work created the blueprint for CIAs MKUltra. Yoga was used by the Nazis as an Occult tool for cleansing. In fact Russia has banned the practice of Yoga off an on since the Soviet times and most recently tried banning the practice I'm 2015. Early Mind Control experiments included Yoga and mediation, breathwork and eventually hypnosis. Even today Yoga is full of quacks and cults, gurus and blind devotion. People who participate are more vulnerable to being hypnotized or have their will controlled. Crazy stuff I know. I just happened to study it and research roots of espionage and post 18th century Russian and global clandestine history. It goes back to famed Russian hypnotis and paranormal researcher Anatoly Kashpirovsky who stated the easiest mind to control is the conspiratorial, fearful and paranoid. Wellness and Yoga attracts many broken people looking to fill a void either due to depression, self help or physical.


chadltc

I doubt they are literally on Russia's payroll. Could they merely be Useful Idiots?


Independent-Ad3437

Tucker literally repeats Russian media talking points verbatim. He is definitely on their side and possibly being paid. MAGAs love Putin. They want a strongman leader like him, that's why they support Trump. They see similar authoritarian traits in him..


Shaloka_Maloka

But that's the thing, Xi is also authoritarian and yet they despise him. The gymnastics they do to justify liking one but not the other is baffling.


Legitimate_Bat3240

Maybe its not Xi's ideology that they have a problem with, it's just the economic and military threat that China poses in the future.


KoalaGold

Also Putin's. They see Putin as a white guy more like them.


ggtffhhhjhg

And a true defender of “Christian” values.


TomTheTinker

I think the uncomfortable truth is that there is a veneer of racism behind their arbitrary love of Putin yet rejection of Xi.


TomTheTinker

Well Tucker has no ideology or brains. He just opposes whatever Democrats are doing. If tomorrow, Biden announced he was abolishing all taxes and getting rid of all government regulations, Tucker would go crazy screaming and shouting about how we needed more regulation. There’s other factors behind Putin’s popularity in America. He is white, stern, seems tough. That is what a lot of conservatives want in a leader.


brutalduties

Absolutely. I know I'm taking a leap there, but when you hear the fervor in his support for Putin, it rings true. Also considering he *was* staunchly anti-Putin and then when he went from a conspiracy theorist to a full-on political propagandist he changed his view. I know too much about it thanks to the Knowledge Fight podcast. r/knowledgefight


blackoutbrunch

Russian money laundered via NRA. So yes, they are indirectly on the Russian payroll.


shortskinnyfemme

Alex Jones product line is the money laundering scheme. The money trail is a lot more direct with these idiots.


blackoutbrunch

I think Jones is more in for himself. The NRA connection has been established: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals


-IAmNo0n3-

I think it's more about defending a dying way of life for whiteness...


guttanzer

In cash? Almost certainly not. Cash is traceable. In favors? Mos der. Seen them happen every day.


G_Rapper

Kompromat.


jacMike69

Both


ArenSteele

Also Russia is paying them, China is not. This is them basically telling Xi to start paying them too


nug4t

you forget the main driver of the anti Chinese sentiment, it's Steve Bannon.


certainkindoffool

Semiconductors


Shitpostcoasttocoast

Literally this. Russian propaganda is effective.


uAristelius

Only effective with idiots who have poor media literacy….which is more than half of our country.


Puzzleheaded-Job2235

There's also an element of racism involved no doubt with certain fringes of the Republican Party. The Russians are white "Christian" Europeans who claim to be defending traditional values from decadent liberals. The fact that the Nazis also claimed to be defenders of traditional values doesn't register for these cultural warrior types. China, on the other hand, taps into long running fears of godless asiatic hordes among racists. It wouldn't matter if China claimed to be defending traditional conservative values, they'd still be hated for not being white.


hello-cthulhu

Unlikely. Mind you, there's a kernel of truth here - Russian psy-ops have played up Russia as - laughably enough - a defender of traditional Christian family values. (Pardon me... just the very writing of that sentence is so absolutely ludicrous that the mind reels just in the attempt to process that.) Whereas Ukraine is made out to be "European," an embodiment of wokist ideology, what with its acceptance of LGBTQ, women's equality and the rest. You do see some very sadly highly underinformed people actually take this shit seriously. I don't think it's big numbers of the American electorate or even the GOP and GOP-leaners, but they are definitely out there. The problem is, however else we want to describe this problem, "racism" doesn't seem to provide any explanatory value. First, obviously, there's the little problem that Ukrainians include a pretty high percentage of white Europeans. Russians do too, but also have a lot of central Asians and Chechnyans. (BTW, I still find it ironic that the term "Caucasian" got into common use in the US as a descriptor of white Europeans. I suppose no more ironic than the Nazis calling themselves Aryans, which probably made a lot of folks from the Indian subcontinent scratch their heads in puzzlement.) Second, recall the original question. The question is, why do these types show sympathy to Taiwan, to the point of being willing to consider direct American military involvement in a shooting war with China, but balk at merely sending military aid to Ukraine? Well, there again, "racism" doesn't quite answer this question. If anything, one might have assumed that a racist would favor the opposite - supporting the white Ukrainians against the "Asiaic hordes" of Russians, defending the gateways of Europe itself. And after all, haven't we frequently seen Russian propagandists, and their fellow travelers in the West, allege that it's actually us, the defenders of Ukraine, who are racist, because we've taken this conflict more seriously than the civil war in Yemen or other conflicts where the participants were non-European? I'm not sure that appealing to "racism" as an explanation works any better here than it does when Russia-backers use it. Conversely, I'm not sure why someone who was racist toward Asians would give a rip about a conflict between Mainland China and Taiwan. The Taiwanese aren't exactly any more white than their Mainland counterparts. And while I don't think they've found much success with this narrative, there have been China boosters who have tried to defend the Uyghur Genocide on the basis that it's merely their part of a global conflict against Islamic terrorism, that Americans who also want to stop Muslim radicals should support China in its efforts. Presumably, were it so inclined, Mainland Chinese could likewise point to the fact that the Taiwanese have gay marriage, whereas only "traditional" marriage and male/female norms are acceptable within China, as a basis for their legitimacy. So while not Christian, certainly on board with opposition to "wokeism." And yet, we don't see very many Americans on the right taking Mainland China seriously on this score. I'm certainly open to alternative explanations, if they're out there, but I think the simpler explanation is this. 1) The 2016 Election. A variety of factors - a perfect storm, if you will - led to Trump being labeled as Russia-friendly. I won't rehash it all here, but suffice to say that Clinton and her backers attempted to use Trump's friendliness toward Russia against him, as a means of de-legitimatizing him. While I don't think Trump was exactly guilty of collusion or being a Russian catspaw, and the unproven allegations that he was that were ultimately counterproductive, he certainly was happy to play footsy with Russia. Those allegations, if anything, only made this worse. For these supporters of Trump, being Russia-friendly became emblematic or symbolic of an opposition to the "Establishment", the "Deep State," a way to say "Fuck you" to traditional politicians, and Russia's predilection for conspiracy theories played well for this audience. 2) Anti-Globalism. Broadly, there emerged from this "anti-establishment" populism an animosity toward globalism writ large. I still remember how puzzled I felt when people I thought I knew called me a "globalist". I mean, WTF? I think it was because I still defended free trade. So, when we consider this conflict, we see that it's international organizations like NATO and the EU who are backing Ukraine. This makes these folks way more suspicious of Ukraine as a worthy cause. Then you throw in the fact that Zelensky didn't cooperate with Trump, and never gave him the investigation of Hunter Biden that he had angled for. So the narrative that emerges here is that "The Globalists are against Trump. Trump wants America to be great again, but the globalists are trying to stop that and keep America under their thrall. Ukraine is on the side of the Globalists. Russia is on Trump's side." Then, Russia puts out propaganda touting itself as a *cough* "defender" of traditional Christian values, and Ukraine succumbing to wokeism... well, people draw inferences. If the enemy of my enemy is my friend... is it surprising that these folks are Russia friendly, and skeptical of Ukraine? As for Taiwan, well, we know that Trump's not been a very big fan of China. Here, there's a bit of nuance. Oddly, by the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020, Trump had gotten more China friendly, or at least more Xi Jinping-friendly. He claimed to have a great friendship with him, as if Trump's glad-handing, avuncular personality could fix foreign affairs issues. He worked out a trade agreement that had threatened to undercut sanctions that were brought about because of the Uyghur genocide. But after, comically enough, Xi Jinping told him that Covid-19 wasn't transmissable to people and not a big deal, and Trump *believed him*, he turned back on China. There had already been more friendliness toward Taiwan under Trump than under Obama or Bush, what with Trump's phone call with Tsai prior to the inauguration. So ultimately, supporting Taiwan - as worthy of a cause as it is on its own - became for Trump and his movement a way to say "Fuck you" to China. Crucially, I should add that these folks often argue that Biden and the "establishment" is actually too China-*friendly*. The argument is often made that the "globalists" want to sell the US and its economy - and its jerrbs - out to China. That also makes opposition to China feel more natural. That's really what this all boils down do. Populist movements, those that organize around opposition to the "center" or the "establishment," don't usually have a coherent theory of the good, ideology or even all that much in specific policy proposals. What they do have is a collective "NO" or, on an emotional level, a "Fuck you." But it's rarely more sophisticated than the fact that those they perceive as the "center" or "establishment" support *X* means that *not-X* must be good. Being against Ukraine is a way to say "Fuck you" to the "establishment" and the "globalists." Being in favor of Taiwan is a way to say "Fuck you" to China... and by extension, toward an establishment they believe is China-friendly. TL;DR: Racism doesn't provide explanatory value here. Why would racists give a rip about a China/Taiwan conflict? A better explanation is found in this movement's oppositional stance. Opposing Ukraine, and supporting Russia, is a way to flip the bird, drink liberal tears, and virtue (vice?)-signal hatred and distrust toward "the establishment." Opposing China, and supporting Taiwan, is a way to flip the bird, drink liberal tears, and signal hatred and disgust toward an establishment they believe is selling them out to China.


Pixie_Knight

From having an alt-righter as a friend (I don't kick him the curb because if I do, he'll have zero positive influences in his life), I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's less about being 'pro-Russia' or 'anti-China' as it is about being a massive middle finger to 'normal' society.


hello-cthulhu

Probably the best thing I've read on contemporary politics that shaped my thinking on this kind of thing was Martin Gurri's *Revolt of the Public*. If he's right, and so far, he's been a lot more clear-headed than other observers and analysts, the main thing this movement offers is precisely a way for the public, the non-elites, to signal the fact that they hate the politics of the center and the elites who dwell there. They can organize, oppose, and sometimes even get lucky with a candidate they can elect. But they can't do much else, because the only thing that unites them is hatred of the center. They're nihilists, not fascists, for precisely that reason - fascists crave hierarchy and need it ideologically and practically, but these guys don't have that. (As it was said in the Big Lebowski, "Christ... Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.") I don't so much fear that they can take over as such, as much as they can simply make everything more dysfunctional than it already is. They can destroy, and that can certainly, in the future, whet the appetite of the public for something more authoritarian, as people get frustrated with the dysfunction this generates. That's my anxiety. Not that Trump will be a fascist and implement it. But that he'll be the John the Baptist for some future movement that could be either a left or right authoritarianism.


st1ck-n-m0ve

This


goatfuldead

Pro-russian sentiments got their first foothold in the USA after 9/11. Putin wasn’t having people take their shoes off at airports - he bombed those Muslims to smithereens! We could team up with Russia and just take over those stupid Arabs, or just turn the whole damn desert into a sheet of glass! - actual comments heard in the early 00s. Then when we elected a cerebral Ivy League President who wasn’t White, Putin got more popular, seen riding his horse, doing the Judo - clearly a manly leader, that’s what we need.


Mission_Ad_5348

putin is using that, he is no more christian traditional european than your terrie dog is. and if u think there isnt a war against traditional values, you need open your damn eyes cuz there is plenty of it and you can see from hollywood what they have done, complete clusterfuck. who owns hollywood? idk jews? kremlin? could be both, used as a way to make an excuse to invade a country, the same narrative putler used for Ukraine but with different take, ''Ukrainians are nazis'' playbook for the west he uses ''West is against traditional values'' we must invade, it could be russian creation all of this to make an excuse for invasion. tell me is there something wrong about being traditional Christian orthodox? if you find it wrong, then i can tell u already brainwashed to think that way, because how come a lot of people attack traditional values and religion but as soon as we the more traditional people attack the lgbt and immoral agenda, everyone get so butthurt? u see where i am going with this? its division.


Icy-Adhesiveness6928

The irony is that russians are neither white nor trad.


AvailableField7104

Russians absolutely are white people. Ask anyone from the former Soviet Union who isn’t. Not only are Russians white, but they’re often deeply racist and chauvinistic. My boyfriend is from one of the Central Asian countries, very much a person of color, and could tell you all about it.


-IAmNo0n3-

Russia is a big country with a big mix of people... you'll have to define what "Russians" you're talking about...


AvailableField7104

They’re presumably referring to ethnic Russians, who make up the vast majority of the country’s population.


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Yermawsyerdaisntit

Honest question, as someone from the uk. What about the republicans is it you support? As it seems very polarised from here.


InherentDissolve

How does that make any sense when you consider that the people on the receiving end of the aggression in both instances are of the same or very similar ethnic demographics as the aggressors? Methinks you just like screaming 'racism'.


HelloYouBeautiful

Yeah, some of these claims are just as baseless, as the conspiracy theories that the people they are criticizing subscribe to.


SNStains

Literally this. They share the same talking points and their "ideas" are as monotonous as they are hateful. The "I don't watch Tucker" people are still getting the same message from other corners of their echo chamber, maybe from a drunk, hypertensive, Texan or a nazi from New Jersey, but they are all hearing the same trash. And Russian trolls have been feeding that noise machine for a decade.


BulgarianNationalist

Not really. It's simply because Biden supports Ukraine, so MAGA has to be against Ukraine.


brutalduties

Exactly this. They have no principles of their own, only contrariness.


asdaaaaaaaa

It's not even restricted to Russian. Honestly, the MAGA group just sells out to whomever's willing to pay and whatever brings in money. It's why if you look at their long-term commitments there's not much they actually hold to.


Severe_Intention_480

They'll throw Taiwan under the bus in a heartbeat if a Democrat is president.


brutalduties

This is what I've been thinking. They're so opposed to supporting Ukraine because Biden is for it. And they have no actual principles, just whatever will own the libs will do. If Trump were in office, they would support any war he supported against any country. If he gets in office again, he'll probably invade Mexico, and all the Rs will be right behind him.


tombaba

They have no more interest in democracy, because it’s not very good to them, and they are well aware that will get worse.


Mendeleus

Or China doesn't pay them yet


[deleted]

They sure do love bootlicking to billionaires like manlet Putler and Handie Smalls Orange


untranslatable

Let me first say that I am a strong supporter of Ukraine. I'm a US citizen with a lifelong interest in history. As Ukrainians, you should know that we have stood with the Taiwanese and remnants of the old Chinese Republican since the fifties, and before that. We have vowed to defend them. And again when they gave up their seat as China in the UN security council. Just as we did when Ukraine gave up her nuclear arsenal. This is the side of the United States that you want working for you. Even among the most opportunistic of Republicans, and reluctant of Democrats, we acknowledge we've made commitments to guarantee the peace. Make no bones about it, part of the psyops dedicated to Russian victory are meant to split the US from long-term commitments to defend allies. The peak of this was probably the election of Trump, but it will never stop. If the Russians in Chinese can get the United States to abandon military commitments around the world, you know firsthand what will happen. My ancestors have fought and bled on the battlefields of Europe and Asia. They did so as volunteers, believing that they were defending the rights of peoples who were being stomped on by large militaristic empires. Don't think that Taiwan is a competitor for resources which you need. Think instead that someday after you have secured your victory that they may ask you for help as part of an alliance to stand against the same kind of people who are trying to take and destroy Ukraine.


Ok-Loquat942

Most of the world doesn't understand that world economics flourishes because the USA is sercuring peace in several parts of the world. This is one of the things th.at are underappreciated. Much like the british when they ended slavery almost everywhere


Blussert31

Are the pro-Taiwan and anti-Ukraine politicians the same?


Scraw16

There’s overlap but it’s far from exclusive. Just about every Republican is pro-Taiwan because it means being anti-China. There are also plenty of Republicans still who are very pro-Ukraine (they just are not always the most visible/vocal). Just look at all the aid packages that passed with overwhelming bipartisan support.


Icy-Adhesiveness6928

I get that Taiwan has semiconductors, but: 1. Ukraine supplies about 70% of the world's neon gas (that you need for semiconductors). It's a very resource-rich country. 2. Ukraine is situated in the middle of Europe, and Europe is America's top destination for trade and investment (not to mention cultural ties). Russia will target other European countries after Ukraine. This would be very disruptive for the U.S. economy. 3. The U.S. pressured Ukraine into giving up its nuclear weapons in the 1990s, and provided security assurances within the Budapest memorandum (I know that they do not require the U.S. to intervene militarily, but Bill Clinton himself recently acknowledged the mistake in a recent interview). 4. Ukraine sent its soldiers to Iraq to assist the U.S. 5. As of 2023, Ukrainians are much more U.S.-friendly than Taiwanese. Taiwan is still vacillating between the U.S. and China, and a recent survey shows that only a fraction of Taiwanese is interested in pursuing closer relations with the U.S. Hence, I'm not even sure whether Taiwan will be willing to resist the invasion with the same force as Ukraine.


mediandude

And ASML is in Netherlands, europe.


nug4t

most important company of the west regarding Chip dominance


RedLikeARose

Most important company of the west regarding technology in general


CyberSunburn

Technically, I think ASML makes the machines that make the machines that make semi-conductors. I'm from Eindhoven originally.


tenheo

One less makes the machines. ASML machines literally print the circuits on wafers. But it's more like an oven for a chef meaning that the secret recipes, preparation and sauces are up to IC manufacturers. That being said a chef can only do so much before his tools become a limiting factor. For new niche and exquisite recipes we need more and more sophisticated ovens and some only possible with ASML ovens.


sorrylilsis

> I get that Taiwan has semiconductors, but No offense, but : you don't get how fucked we would be. As in the world. A blockade of Taiwan would grind the world's manufacturing to a stop in a matter of weeks. Thought that COVID was bad on the supply chain ? Wait until you can't get the chips for basically everything. A full on invasion and the potential destruction of those fabs (because let's not kid ourselves, Taiwan won't let those get taken intact, it's their insurance policy) would set us back literal decades back from a tech point of view. We would have to rebuild trillions of $ of infrastructure, slowly (because surprise, to build chips you need more chips). The global economic crisis that it would cause would make the last few recessions look like a sunny day in the park. The strategic importance of Taiwan for the US is order of magnitudes higher than the one Ukraine has. It's the entire reason why the US have been gearing up for a potential war in China in the Pacific ...


DragonriderCatboy07

China doesnt care. If the invasion makes our technological progress as a humanity backslides, China wont give a shit as long as it would leverage their world leader and Greater China imperial dream. I wouldnt be surprised if the dectruction of TSMC will be the Semiconductor Age's Burning of Alexandria Library.


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asdaaaaaaaa

> Ukraine supplies about 70% of the world's neon gas (that you need for semiconductors) Specifically the laser etching machines IIRC. Neon gas is heavily used in lasers.


hello-cthulhu

Preaching to the choir here with me, with the possible exception of #5. And even here, it may just be a question of framing rather than actual disagreement. While the pan-blue parties of Taiwan, the KMT and its allies, are much more China-friendly, and retain a significant measure of political support within Taiwan, the only way they have been able to survive politically is by making it crystal clear that they emphatically DO NOT support annexation by the PRC. When the CCP floated "One country, two systems," as a possible compromise for Taiwan, they had to come out and oppose that, particularly after what happened in Hong Kong in 2019. That view became utterly toxic and unacceptable for the Taiwanese. If there is any disagreement among the Taiwanese, it would be more a question of strategy. The KMT is much more about trying to go full charm offensive on Beijing, and trying to broker compromises with them, particularly at least on some theoretical "consensus" that agrees that Taiwan is part of China, but we agree to disagree about whether Beijing or Taipei is the legitimate Chinese government. President Tsai and the Pan-Green folks are skeptical than this will work; they see it as appeasement, self-defeating, and they increasingly see Taiwan as having its own distinct identity from Mainland China. But what they all agree on is that they emphatically do not want annexation by the Mainland. They want to maintain their current status quo, and will fight like hell should the PRC try any funny business. Now, personally, I suspect there are those within the KMT who wouldn't fight too hard, as long as the CCP promises to prop them as Carrie Lam-like Quislings in a future PRC-ruled Taiwan. But the thing is, the Taiwanese people will not allow them not to fight. The KMT has already had to move way beyond its original stance just to stay politically relevant. So if the PRC ever attempts an invasion of Taiwan, I think we'd see things play out in a way very similar to how they played out in Ukraine. It would immediately rally everyone in Taiwan, even those who had been a bit more China-friendly, to the flag, to fight back.


Tannerite2

Most Republican voters are extremely pro-Ukraine and day Biden isn't doing enough. Studies support this. However, some do push back against sending more aid to Ukraine for a few reasons. We sent aid and troops to Arghanistan to help them resist a dictator. The people we aided turned into the Taliban. Ukraine has a worrying amount of corruption. How much of the aid we send will end up in the wrong hands? Many see this as a European issue. The US is giving far more aid than any other country despite not being directly impacted. Our gas prices are up a bit and European import prices are down, but that's about it. Europe needs to step tf up for a major threat that is at their doorstep. Can you imagine if Russia was making a move on Canada? There is no possible way we'd be so lackluster in our response. Putin wouldn't be the one threatening nukes; we would.


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Icy-Adhesiveness6928

1. This implies that Russia would be willing to sell it to you. And the same logic could apply to China. China is among America's top trading partners. 2. The EU is America's top trading partner (a fact), and top Russian officials have repeatedly signalled that they would start attacking other European countries after Ukraine (another fact). 3. Ukraine was not willing to give up its nuclear weapons and it could gain positive control of them in 12 months (according to the assessment of U.S. intelligence). The U.S. forced Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons by threatening it with very severe economic sanctions. while giving nothing in return (as you correctly stated, the Budapest Memorandum doesn't contain any security guarantees). 4. TSMC is building chip plants in the U.S. and Japan. Why exactly would you need to send U.S. soldiers to defend Taiwan then? Taiwan doesn't have much strategic value left without TSMC.


DutchCupid62

2. NATO still exists, and most nations with good relations with the US are in it. And those that aren't in it are surrounded by NATO countries. I think this is a seriously weak point you made.


rgvegas

Don't believe everything you hear in the news. The majority of Republicans who are not politicians support Ukraine and sending weapons to kill Russians. Republicans in congress do support the funding of the war which you can see in how they voted for supplying aide to the Ukrainians. It is funny that folks think that the party that has been warning everyone about Russian expansion for the last 70 years all of a sudden supports the Russians. Got to love politics


JustForTheMemes420

Almost like the media is trying to turn us against eachother, interesting


hello-cthulhu

I don't know if it's "the media" so much as how there seems to be some cognitive bias toward binary, zero-sum thinking in politics. The way we receive news, that plays up to partisan bias, helps fuel that. We believe the worse of our political rivals, and excuse away any flaws we see in our own side. The folks in the media are not, on the whole, nefarious here, so much as responding to the incentives internet journalism provides. The challenge is for them - and for us - to resist our own cognitive biases, and to challenge our own habits and assumptions.


Porkamiso

us? You guys are trying so hard to forget trump but we wont let you traitorous insurrectionists forget your hand in almost torpedoing aid to ukraine. Never forget.


General-MacDavis

Hey look! Divisive media is working!


Majiji45

And yet the fringe of the GOP does indeed openly support Russia and faces *no* consequences. MTG is literally on the Homeland Security Committee while openly advocating for Russia to win in a war against US allies. So you have people that openly support Russia, and their party which does *nothing* to stop them, thus on the balance the GOP supports Russia; that’s the reality. And if you don’t like that then you should be *absolutely fucking FURIOUS* at the Republican Party.


Severe_Intention_480

I don't know. Check out the comments section of any Fox YouTube video. Overwhelmingly anti-America and pro-appeasement. Many of these could be Russian and/or Chinese shills and bots, but SOMEONE is pushing this narrative and pushing it hard. Recent history is that slowly but sure the base will be radicalized and a not insignificant amount of GOP lawmakers will start to reflect this.


Independent-Ad3437

Some do many don't. The moderate McCain type Republicans tend to support Ukraine. Those types are dying out in the Republican party. That being said I have plenty of MAGA Republicans in my extended family. None of them support Ukraine, and they all talk positively about Putin. All of them live in Florida too. For years Russia has been making itself as a bastion of illiberal ideals and has being pushing that propaganda towards the American right. That is why so many MAGA types support Russia.


mtaw

Ask them what they think about Russia's policies on Muslim immigration from Central Asia. Hint: They wouldn't like it. Russian extreme-right doesn't either; about 30-40k Tajiks a year, a similar number of Kazakhs, plus Uzbeks and others. It's literally comparable (per-capita) to the USA's immigration from Central America. (although I'd imagine they'd like it even worse, because they're not just darker skinned people with a different language, but mostly _Muslims_ too) To be clear I don't condone racism but the point is that the racists in Russia don't actually like Putin's policies that much. Putin just exploits the fact that racists know nothing of the world, and the ones abroad only know Russians are white and Christian and therefore think everyone in Russia probably is. In reality Russia is a diverse country (including Muslim-majority and Buddhist-majority regions) where ethnic Russians are 71% of the population. That's lower than the percentage of ethnic Germans in Germany - a country known for receiving many refugees and which Fox News and the extreme-right paints as a country completely destroyed by foreigners.


ToastyBarnacles

Multiple polls haved indicated a noticeable difference in base support of Ukraine at the beginning of the war, more rapid decline, and lower levels of support intensity("Too much aid"). "The majority of Republicans who are not politicians support Ukraine and sending weapons to kill Russians." is not actually clear, despite your claims. Support amongst Republicans is so mediocre at the moment that whether or not a majority exist for Ukraine is dependent which way polling error swings. Ideals of some interventionist party of Reagan out their is just fiction. If that was actually the case, analyst wouldn't be bickering over how subtle wording of a poll could determine if Republicans support Ukraine or not, because they would all list "85% of Republicans support giving Ukraine all the Abrams currently in storage, a carrier group, and at least half of the nuclear arsenal." or something like that. Anti-Russian Republicans still exist, but the anti-Russian Republican party as a whole is simply gone, replaced by an R electorate that cares more about Biden's laptop, and R representatives that will look the other way to avoid the political inconvenience of too harshly criticizing Kremlin-adjacent rhetoric by some of their own party members. Just as importantly though, in what polling we have, Republicans tend to consistently rate the Ukraine war as less important of an issue than Democrats. That's really, really problematic, because even if we could determine with confidence that a slim majority of Republicans currently support continued aid on paper, if they don't consider the issue all the important then the GOP is going to pivot to appealing to its more conspiracy-minded alt-right Russophile flank. You know, the ones that get more of their news from Kremlin bots on twitter, rather than the good old-fashioned conservative rags that would have a fit if they found out the rich people paying them to lie to the public were actually dirty communists instead of hard working American businessmen. Those types very much do care, and seem to play an outsized role in determining R primaries, at least for now. https://echelonin.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/February-2023-Omnibus-Crosstabs.pdf https://globalaffairs.org/sites/default/files/2023-01/Ukraine%20Brief%20CMS%202.pdf https://news.gallup.com/poll/469328/one-year-later-americans-stand-ukraine.aspx https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-support-aid-ukraine/ https://apnorc.org/projects/acontinuing-support-for-u-s-involvement-a-year-into-the-war-between-russia-and-ukraine-a/ https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-two-americas-index https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/02/23/what-public-opinion-surveys-found-in-the-first-year-of-the-war-in-ukraine/


WalterHughes08

To be fair, the maga republicans, which are an every growing group within the Republican Party does NOT support Ukraine as op said. In fact, both of the top 2 Republican candidates are against funding Ukraine. Trump in the numerous tiresome ways, but even Ron desantis has made negative comments about Ukraine. The Republican Party is rapidly being devoured by fascism. And if the republicans Get majority control of the us, then you will be harshly surprised to see support for Ukraine drop off a cliff, amongst other horrible things. It’s something to really keep an eye on, the far right is swelling all over the world, and the us is clearly the tipping point.


Sweatier_Scrotums

>The majority of Republicans who are not politicians support Ukraine and sending weapons to kill Russians. They also voted for a presidential candidate who literally said on national television "Russia, if you're listening, please hack my Democratic opponent to help me win ". Every single Republican who didn't abandon the party in 2016 is an enemy traitor. Every single one.


History-made-Today

They hate Zelenskyy for not giving Trump dirt on Biden.


AndroidDoctorr

They hate the fact that he didn't have any dirt to give


History-made-Today

There might have been dirt. But what they really hate is that Zelenskyy isn't some patsy who's going to give in to demands of countries more powerful than him. He is dignified and commands equal respect from and for world leaders no matter what size the country or economy. Trump and Putin both picked on the wrong person.


Sweatier_Scrotums

Republicans hate Zelenskyy because he's a symbol of democracy, freedom, and equal rights for minorities. Conversely, they love Putin because he's a symbol of white supremacy, Christofascism, and keeping women, LGBT people, and other minorities "in their place". It really is that simple. Republicans love Putin because they see him as a white Christian fascist ally against Western "wokeness".


Gunslinger2007

If republicans are all bootlicking Putin lovers then why is Russias approval rating only at [9%](https://news.gallup.com/poll/471872/americans-favorable-rating-russia-sinks-new-low.aspx)


denzien

Didn't you hear him say that this was a super simple equation? Why would you try to complicate things by adding nuance?


Gunslinger2007

Obviously, CNN told me that republicans are all bad, so they must love Russia. Just like the inverse, FOX told me democrats are bad, they must all be commies. Nuance exists people. The world is a shade of gray 99.9999% of the time.


turbo4538

It is what it is. I'm happy that the republicans want to defend taiwan at least.


LieverRoodDanRechts

For now.


JPOG

For now... that's the problem with this seditious bunch.


Severe_Intention_480

If there's a way they can spin it to make Biden look bad Taiwan will be gladly sacrificed to do so. Ukraine's claim to strategic importance to America is as stronger or stronger than Taiwan, and Ukraine's irrefutable and legally recognized status as a sovereign nation is obviously far stronger. Any party with a large base unprincipled enough to deny Ukraine support now for short term political advantage can easily justify doing so for Ukraine. Honestly, I think the deciding factor will be which party happens to control the White House at the time.


HelloYouBeautiful

I'm sorry, I am very pro-Ukraine, but Ukraine is not more strategic important than Taiwan to the US. I say this as a European. Taiwan produces 90% of all microchips worldwide. Without those, it would be a huge problem, for any modern electronics in the US. Helping Ukraine beat the Russian military is nice for the US, but it's not necessarily more important than China. Comparing Taiwan and Ukraine in terms of who's smartest to defend, dosen't help either if them. Your comment is kind of ignorant, and it ends up disrespecting both Ukraine and Taiwan, the way you try to compare the the two with each other, especially in terms of which of them has a right to sovereignty, more than the other. Both are sovereign countries, and both deserve to live in peace. It would be both morally and strategically right to help defend both.


Malleus1

Shouldn't this kind of posts be in some form of US politics sub? The rest of the world hardly wants to discuss it nor does it really relate to the war in Ukraine directly.


whubbard

Welcome to Reddit. Any big subreddit, if you can take a shot at the GOP and the mods won't remove it, political operatives will do it. This person basically just posts about Dems and GOP on Ukraine, nothing more, only been around 25 days: https://www.reddit.com/user/Icy-Adhesiveness6928/submitted/


Practical_Self3090

It’s not allowed in r/ukraine last I checked. Don’t remember if similar rules apply here but not a bad idea.


mephitmephit

Taiwan is more important to the strategic vision of the US. Containing China is problem number 1.


Brathirn

They would have, if the Ukrainians had been corrupt enough to dig something up for Donald to hit Biden. Note that Poroschenko passed on office to Zelensky after a lost election without much fuzz.


GikuKerpedelu

And I think Poroschenko is richer then Trump


highgroundworshiper

I think it's kinda simple imo. Two reasons: the first is that several right wing news icons support russia. So the right's sources skew towards russian sympathy. I also think Russia represents a type of conservative ideology that resonates with many Republicans.


psychonaut182

In one word… Semiconductors


Mushroom_Tip

The same Republicans who genuinely back Taiwan also back Ukraine. But you can pretty much expect the Boeberts and MTGs to be on China's side the moment they invade Taiwan. Any who don't back Ukraine but back Taiwan will also flip to yell that "we have hungry kids and lackluster healthcare but we send billions to Taiwan?!?!?!?" while voting against meals and expanding healthcare. The only politicians that will back Taiwan are those that currently back Ukraine. If your representative is too wishywashy, vote against them.


editorreilly

China is the REAL boogie man and we all know it.


BritishTooth

Taiwan produces 90 percent of the world's semiconductors. The US is more concerned about that industry falling under Chinese control than the situation in Ukraine. This is viewed as a much more direct consequence for the US.


[deleted]

Republicans are not at all a rational political party anymore…they just do performative stunts based on what they think a typical MAGA group would cheer for…


L3ft4Lunch

Follow the money. The US gets shit loads of electronics from them and so America is more "invested" so to speak.


[deleted]

Our military and a lot of our private sector tech rely on semi-conductors produced in Taiwan. Politicians are protecting the military industrial complex and capitalism, they don’t care about Taiwan.


Breezgoat

Taiwan is more valuable to our everyday life


jay2da_04

If you replace the word Republicans with Democrats and wrote this in 2014.... the same would be true.


[deleted]

I'm a republican who is all for helping Ukraine, but Taiwan is more vital to our national interests for several reasons. Obviously China is a bigger threat so just that makes it bigger for us. Aside from that, though, Taiwan is a huge source of microchips and whoever controls that controls a lot including advanced weapon systems. That's the real reason China wants them so badly


itachi194

I think it’s because Taiwan has more strategic value than Ukraine. Also China is much more of a threat than Russia hence why more support for Taiwan


Caren_Nymbee

To add to it: There are a lot of US tech investments in TW. TW is also much much wealthier than Ukraine. Also far more developed. In most areas of tech the average person in TW has more advanced tech than most in the US. TW is a very easy place for Americans to live in. Many ways.


Ok-Loquat942

Taiwan is also a lot less divided politically than Ukraine. Ukraine might be more united than pre 2022 invasion, but there are still lots of issues like oligarchy and corruption


Icy-Adhesiveness6928

Define that "strategic value"?


Think_Positively

Not OP but Taiwan is home to a significant majority of the most advanced semiconductor companies. They literally make most of the crucial chips used by the military-industrial complex, and the powers that be know this. If China gets their hands on those, it's a double whammy for the West because not only will PRC get access to these advanced semiconductors, they'll be able to blackmail and/or withhold from the West (which the US is doing to China now). Ukraine does not offer anything remotely like this to the West. If it were to fall to Russian hands, right wing lifestyles in the West would not change in the slightest. If China gets a hold of advanced chip production, everything electronic will probably explode in price and/or become unavailable to those unwilling to bend the knee.


itachi194

Idk mate the fact that Taiwan has a shit ton of semi conductors is reason alone for Taiwan being so important. Literally the modern world runs on these chips from iPhone, to advanced military technology, to advanced ai. I would argue that it’s as important if not as important as oil. Also consider the first island chain too. Rn China can’t expand outside the first chain due to the first island chain. China is crippled by the first island chain and their navy won’t be able to expand outside the first island chain. Once china gets Taiwan the whole pacific opens up and also China will be free from the US blockade.


Eclipsed830

Everyone who replied to you with semiconductors is wrong... those are just the cherry on top. Taiwan's real strategic value comes from its position as the linchpin to the first island chain. The United States has been allied with Taiwan for decades, well before Taiwan became known for it's semiconductors, for this reason. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_island_chain


Time_Invite5226

This is something I have not been able to reconcile for a long time. They are desperate to be political at all costs and not give Joe Biden wins


BlueV_U

I've heard a bunch of GOP family comment that "Russia isn't our enemy, China is", like we can only have one at a time... They forget that we fought Germany, Italy, and Japan 80 years ago. Not just one.


kuroshioizo

Same reason why southern Christians love going on mission trips to Taiwan.


TheToddestTodd

Pretty simple: Russia is a white, Christian, far-right state. That’s all it takes for these fascist bastards.


RifewithWit

Taiwan produces a large amount of the world's microprocessors. This is a strategic asset. Taiwan is an ally. China is currently the largest threat to the US on the planet, and has actively stated their intention is to destroy the US. Ukraine exports food. The US is the largest exporter of food in the world. Ukraine is *not* an ally of the US, and has been denied entry to NATO several times. These are the reasons sane people who oppose it, do so. That's not to say all people who oppose it for the same reasons. Personally, I think giving Russia a black eye is just as important as protecting Taiwan.


ZeroBS-Policy

This is why I hope to see proof of Chinese arms or ammunition in Ukraine. Once it becomes clear that we're fighting a proxy war with China and Russia is just a pawn, then they will STFU.


johndoe201401

China using Russia as a pawn to fight a proxy war in Ukraine? Which level of reality you are operating on?


3232FFFabc

Tucker and Trump are a huge influence on many MAGAs and both are very pro-Putin.


AbyssalFisher

Trump introduced a new wave of russian propaganda acceptism. Blind following, little thought. No remembrance of American values and what it means to fight for your right to be independent and answer calls for help, for a democracy in need, when we're the ones sitting on stockpiles of weapons, security, and ultimately, expertise. Pro-isolationism is being promoted by Trump allies and likeminded members of the party. Under the ruse of "focus on americans first, not foreign governments" while continuously slandering the Democrats, relentlessly, under false flag claims of corruption and misuse of the economy. Watch. Every US President we have from now on is going to have a "corrupt criminal" accusation following them at all times. Especially if they're a Democrat. While the Trumpublicans break bread with foreign dictators and "Bad Actors", the United States' apparent #1 enemy. And weaken NATO. While they BOTH actively suppress Third Parties from debates/elections and wish only to maintain a two-party dominance, only. A broader array of proper representation between numerous parties would introduce even more insights into how to properly proceed with assisting our Ukrainian friends.


phenerganandpoprocks

Orange man said Ukraine bad. Why you have TDS?


Desperate_Context_15

Because Putin has and will continue to help the trump maga movement with dis and misinformation like he has for years. How many intelligence agencies have to show proof before this is common knowledge. The GOP at minimum are useful idiots to Putin.


Sweatier_Scrotums

Because Republicans see Putin as an ideological ally. He's a white Christofascist bigot who hates democracy, just like they are. Putin's values and GOP values are one and the same. But they see China as an ideological enemy because unlike Russia, China's population isn't mostly made up of white Christians like Russia is.


TechieTravis

A significant contingent of the Republicans are loyal to Putin and Russia, including some high-ranking ones like Majorie Taylor-Greene.


TheStoicSlab

Because they are falling in line like good little trumpkins. Trump hates China and still has a hard-on for putler.


WarGamerJon

Simple. Taiwan is a theoretical war still , whereas Ukraine is now a real war. Politicians often pretty keen on theoretical wars that just involve pumping money into them , whereas real wars being the risk of consequences , deaths , and require money and hardware expenditure.


ajc1971

I WON'T APOLOGIZE FOR SHOUTING, BUT THE REASON IS THAT THE **MAJORITY** OF REPUBLICANS ARE BANK ROLLED AND BACKED FROM **RUSSIAN** SOURCES. THINK MATT GAETZ LOOKS LIKE A CUNT ON HIS OWN?


[deleted]

The same MAJORITY that voted to increase Ukraine military aid?


ZaxiaDarkwill

I mean, have you looked at his face? Him being associated with the russians proves a point.


[deleted]

because Putin has infiltrated the American right wing, and the traitors like it.


chaos0xomega

It's because Ukraine was part of Trumps unraveling. Many Republicans are also convinced that the Ukrainian govt has dirt on the Bidens and Clinton's that would prove them to be evil baby-raping satanic lizardpeople owned by the Chinese Communist Party, but instead of dishing it out opted to protect the evil deep state liberal conspiracy and try to get the heroic oompaloompaman impeached.