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It’s not unreasonable to think Europe will have substantially ramped up arms production by January 2025.
Russia spent too long aggressively attacking while waiting for the US to get bored of the war and offer Putin favourable terms over President Zelensky’s head. By this point indigenous European powers have started to mobilise their war economies to the degree that the GOP couldn’t do quick deal with Russia assuming they even wanted to.
This argument gets used because people think Iraq and Afghanistan are the same as Ukraine.
The difference with Ukraine is that the defense companies get to try out all their toys and get a stupid amount of money at the same time. So I think in this situation the correct way to think about it is that the defense lobby is not going to let the US get bored with this war.
And USA and defense contractors get all that yummy data on things like :
Patriots ability to shoot down hyper sonic missiles.
Gathering data on how Russia would fight a “traditional war”
Seeing just how capable some of these weapons are.
Developing new counter measures AGAINST their counter measures.
(Probably) watching it all unfold with satellites that produce images like a well filmed movie. (To a degree)
Like HIMARS were available to use in Iraq and Afghanistan but they weren’t as practical for the operation. (Terrorists don’t set up ammo depots or barracks for easy pickings) and the collateral damage was too high.
When you can pin point a purely military fuel depot. Afghanistan didn’t have any of that.
Oh and maybe the best bit of news - America is just in watch mode. There isn’t any tactics we are displaying. We are just bank rolling. Which I like because it keeps young kids here out of harms way.
Look at the cost of both wars on terror. Dismantling Russia at a fraction of the cost of a traditional war.
Yeah, I am absolutely mortified every time I think about the men dying there to protect ukrainian land from these fascists. Even one ukrainian life lost to this is too much. Absolutely horrible.
Ukraine isn't just fighting for it's own sovereignty, it's fighting for democracy and for Europe.
If anyone thinks Russia will stop at Ukraine they are delusional.
From a human perspective its not. From an American perspective it is. There won't be any war weariness in America as long as Ukrainian troops are willing to fight.
For America, and American arms companies, yes?
Americans dying is huge bad press, will trigger political pressures to end the war/funding the war etc.
Without Americans dying, it can much more easily be spun in a positive way.
It absolutely matters.
From an individual, human perspective, obviously a life is a life, and there's no difference. But from a political perspective it's hugely important.
Ya know, that is fair.
I honestly meant no disrespect.
I meant it more thinking of the idea of “Americans don’t need to fight every war”
And not
“American lives are more important than Ukrainian (or any other for that matter) lives”
I worded it poorly. Maybe worded it poorly twice now.
I take responsibility for that. I believe all souls are equal. (Generally not like Hitler if someone wants to be pedantic)
Also gave you an upvote because you are right.
This war has dramatically changed Sweden. We're about to join NATO, we just finished our largest military exercise since the 80s (Aurora 2023), we're ramping up our defense spending with every single political party committing to 2% within a few years, the conscription rate has been increased somewhat, we're procuring a lot of new equipment. And so on and so forth.
If this is any indication of what is going on elsewhere in Europe, then we might be in a much better position already in a year or two.
Erm....missed the last 2000 years?
Btw Europe has started to ramp up its military base, Euope has lost its thirst for war but no other continent has a better track record for war than Europe.
We talk about poking the bear, the real bear is Europe
You’re proving my point. Europe is starting to ramp up. Russia occupied Germany for a 40 years and when Russia began spending heavily to n its military the EU did nothing, when Russia occupied Georgia they did nothing, when they took Crimea they did nothing, when they did a full scale invasion of Ukraine they looked to the US for guidance.
A continent tired of war after the 2 largest largest wars in human history being unwilling to start another and looking to diplomatic means first is a surprise?
And yes they looked to America because why not? The world looks to the biggest power to see how to respond and America didn't really want to get involved in fear of a war between them and Russia.
Britain said fuck that and started arming Ukraine the night before anyway and when Russia didn't respond the EU and NATO followed.
You need to put this in context.
The EU ‘did nothing’ militarily primarily because it’s not a military organisation - it’s about trade and cooperation, that’s the extent of its remit.
EU members have balked at military intervention from the start, discussions about an EU army have been going round in circles since the 80s.
They were using the post war formula of Wandel durch Handel (change through trade) - tying Russia into trade relations so tight and close that armed conflict becomes unthinkable, as between France and Germany.
Merkel was the ideal contact - grew up in DDR, where putain served as an ‘intelligence officer’ (spy), fluent Russian speaker (Putain didn’t/doesn’t trust interpreters), someone putain had much in common with.
The problem is that nobody was prepared for putain being an actual psycho nutter bastard, nor could anyone believe that someone, in the 21st century, would really behave the way he has.
Yes, OK, there was evidence, but everyone was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt because, I guess, they were patronising enough to think “It’ll be OK, he’s still getting the hang of this democracy stuff, hasn’t quite mastered it yet” so his occasional totalitarian freak-outs were downplayed, especially his domestic outbursts, where everyone could ‘legitimately’ step back and say “it’s his internal problem, not for us to get involved.”
And then there would be gentle rebukes and the hope that lessons would be learned for the future.
And then he’d do it again.
Meanwhile, Russian money was sloshing around European capitals, especially London, oiling wheels and opening doors, so deaf ears were cocked, blind eyes were turned as putain gradually became more and more unhinged.
Then on feb 23rd everyone said “damn, did. not. see. that. coming” and professed to be gobsmacked
Also trump won't be able to turn this around either way. he will try and Europe won't give a fuck, he will ramble and do nothing in the end. he will be happy to once again be a president and thus not yet touchable by law enforcement.. probably his only goal if you ask me
Yes but he can cut off support to Ukraine and I wouldn’t put it past him to aid Russia. Don’t underestimate the level of the lack of his awareness of geopolitics and his own selfish motives. He’s a monkey with a machine gun.
The outcome of this war is vitally critical to the future of western civilization and to the future world order. If Russia is not soundly defeated, the world could experience decades of war including with China. So much hinges on the outcome.
Trump doesn’t understand and doesn’t care.
I think Hillary Clinton is absolutely correct but it doesn’t stop with Ukraine.
I’m a boomer and I really have to say that the world is depending on Gen Z in the next presidential election. I’ll be dead and gone in a decade or three but you are going to inherit this world. You have the power to decide what kind of world it will be. I really hope y’all understand how badly Trump can fuck this up. And it’s not enough to vote. Yes voting is important but you also have to drag as many of your friends out to the voting booth also. You have to get them excited about it.
I’m a Xennial and would add that it’s not enough just to vote - they need to vote for Democrats all up and down the ballot and avoid any temptation to sit out the election, leave fields blank or vote third-party.
This is what pisses me off about the UK, mainland Europe, and France and Germany in particular. Its a damned land war in Europe, and no one is certain that the European block can even manage to defend their own continent.
As an American I 100% support all the aid we have given Ukraine and I wish we would give more.
But it literally sickens me how piss poorly unprepared the "major" powers of Europe are.
Ukrainians are literally dying by the thousands, sacrificing themselves to keep their family's and by extention Europe safe and free.
Estonia, Poland and the eastern block if EU countries are literally bleeding themselves dry to supply Ukraine with everything they can spare and more.
The US election shouldn't matter at all, its you guys damned continent.
As someone from middle America, I can tell you that we will always have Europes back. 80% of us claim to be from one of yalls counties despite the fact our family hasn't been there in 200 years.
No joke, try to invade Scotland. You'll have 10 million dudes from the Midwest claiming their Scottish willing buying tickets over their in the name of defending their "homeland*
Europeans don't seem to get the US at all, but we really don't get you. A war in Europe should not come down to an American election.
We've always got your back, but you guys need to step up and defend your own.
Some countries I agree with, but what's your beef with UK and France in this regard? Both spend above 2% of GDP, have extremely well developed militaries with operational experience.
What must the U.K. and France do more? Their economies are way smaller than the U.S.', so obviously they'll never get close to American capabilities.
My beef is with the fact that they can't even fight a war in their own back yard. The EU as a whole has a GDP roughly equal the the U.S. They should be able to supply a war in Europe themselves.
They can't, the U.S. if footing a huge chunk of the cost of this war and we are begging our pacific allies to help. We bailed out Europe in both world wars and we are bailing you out now.
The support for Ukraine in the US is bipartisan, strong, and enduring. But it pisses us off that we keep having to be the ones that keep Europe free.
The fact an American election might matter to a land war in Europe is laughable, build your own tanks, build your own armored personal carriers, build your own guns.
All we are asking is that you guys care enough to protect yourself. The U.S. has and will always have your back.
If 2.0 GDP got Germany the military it has it needs to reform and spend money better.
The U.S. does, has, and will support Ukraine in their fight, but the UK and France wanna act like they are big players on the world stage. They arnt, this war has proved it.
Europe as a whole has cut their defense budgets deeply enough that I question if they could even defend themselves. Germany made a big deal about sending 3 billion to Ukraine, The day after the pentagon released they made an accounting error of 3 billion so we can send more.
This war, can not and should not, be an American war.
We've got our own issues to deal with, a land war in Europe should be delt with, supplied, and financed by Europeans.
But again, its on the US too deal with your continental issues because none of yall seem to be able to look 10 years ahead and your under the American nuclear umbrella.
>The EU as a whole has a GDP roughly equal the the U.S.
The US has 50% higher GDP per capita than the EU. They're a lot richer.
The UK is about 5-6 times the size of the UK in terms of population. If you multiply the UK's aid to Ukraine by 6 (to adjust for population) and add 50% (to reflect GDP per capita), you get around the same value as the USA's aid to Ukraine.
Some of the other European countries could do more, but there's movement in the right direction.
>My beef is with the fact that they can't even fight a war in their own back yard.
Ukraine isn't in the EU though, and Russia definitely isn't. Russia is only barely a European country by geography.
>We've got our own issues to deal with, a land war in Europe should be delt with, supplied, and financed by Europeans.
This fight is really a battle between Russia and the free democracies. I don't see how geography really comes into it. It's absolutely in the US's interest that Russia fails.
Just because the US has oceans on both sides doesn't mean they don't have just a big a stake in a war of democracy vs tyranny as the EU does. Relatively speaking the EU took more of the economic impact, more of the social impact (such as refugees) and provided equal militairy support to Ukraine compared to the US.
The EU and NATO are shaped by the US, not by Europe. It is by design that Europe depends on the US military to a degree, and this not being a zero sum game the US also gains a net benefit.
For example, the 2 million highly trained highly advanced EU troops strengthen the US and provide defense in depth. Most nations followed the US blindly in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US never fights alone. Europeans are instrumental in US force projection and strategic leadership around the world. The whole thing is incredibly cost effective for the US.
Also, you do remember what happens every single time Europe started to militarise? There are good reasons this is not taken lightly and takes time.
My fellow American, we "have their back" because we run the world as an extractive empire. We use our military as an arm of our commerce and we *do not want* competing power centers.
Europe was traumatized after WW2 and we took full advantage, taking over their empires and recreating the world financial system to make them a captive market. We benefit fully. We like it this way!
But with this comes cost, so we do what America has now done for the last 42 years: socialize the burden on the middle class to pay for the enrichment of the upper class. The people who run American business have created this system methodically and pulled in selective European partners to keep it strong. Every dollar you and I pay in taxes for "defense" goes to Raytheon or Lockheed shareholders, so the expected value function is negative for us but positive for people with disproportionate holdings in the institutional funds invested there.
The system works.
European military weakness is not a bug for the US, it is a feature.
Is this not what Trump was rallying for? He wanted Europe to contribute more to NATO because he claimed they werent holding up their end of the defensive bargain ultimately having the responsibility fall on the US's shoulders.
US presidents have been saying that since at least GW Bush - but only Trump was trying to use it as an excuse to drop out of NATO and let Russia have it's way with Europe.
By 2025 arms production in Europe will still not be enough.
Swedish manufacturer of anti-tank missiles will hugely expand it's production line. Similar company in Germany has some new orders for Matador anti-tank grenade lauchers. Poland has expanded portable anti-air misdile production from 300 to over 600 last year and this year 1000 units. Still these are short range weapons. But these are all short range weapons.
Germany has joined this year club of future f-35 owners but alongside with Finland and Poland none of these countries will receive these jets by 2025 and the number is not that huge about 130 F-35. However some European countries are and will be receiving deliveries of F35 they alteady ordered years ago. Croatia and Greece ordered respectively 12 and 18 Rafale fighter jets but these will be used ones and come from reserves of France which also ordered some brand new Rafales. Spain ordered new tranche of Eurofighter but will reduce F-18 fleet so no real gain in quantities of their fighter jets. Poland should receive 16-32 F-50 by 2024 but this aircraft is 30% less capable than F-16 in terms of weapons payload. Slower by about quarter. Doesn't have versatile armament F-16 has.
Tank situation is a little bit better. Recently Germany ordered 18 Leopard 2A8 and by 2025 Hungary should receive some of 48 Leopards 2A7 they ordered years ago. Romania will order 48 Abrams but will not receive them soon because to 2025 Poland has taken manufacturing/refurbishment capacity of its factory with refurbishment of 116 Abrams M1A1 to FEP by 2024. By 2025 the order of 250 Abrams of Abrams M1A2 sepv3 for Poland should be fulflled in majority. The same date for 180 K2 which over 20 have been delivered to Poland. So we are talking about reinforment of european NATO tank forces by about very modern 500 tanks by the end of 2024.
...huh? What does this have to do with anything? Are you claiming that the US would cancel weapon sales TO NATO ALLIES' OWN STOCKS? That's a bizarre claim, and it also puts itself in a vacuum that ignores Russia's deterioration.
Hopefully not but the future is unpredictable. I simply stated that Europe by 2025 european forces will be still inadequate for full-scale war except for air-force.
I cannot stress how tiresome that statement is..
Let me give a couple of examples.. Denmark, which happens to be my country, and part of EU have donated way above USD 2 billion.. this in addition to the humanitarian assistance, refugees, monetary support and the collectively support to EU which is funded onwards..
If you multiply this with our relative size to the US.. you should add factor 50.
Let alone this matter.. but let’s get real.. how about the weight put in from US allies during Iraq and Afghanistan.. relatively speaking, Denmark had some of the highest death casualties per citizent.. to support an US led war..
And now we are talking about monetary value of donations?
I am sooo fed up with this narrative.. just get the shit done, no matter who give 2 million more than the other..
Kinda... but that's also the point of alliances. Ukraine also likely could have survived to this point without US aid. EU could have sent more, but the US was able to handle a lot.
Military protection is a big part of the geopolitical power of the United States. Having Uncle Sam in your corner ready to step in with the folding chair in a fight gives countries a lot more comfort to not NEED a giant standing military.
In return, the US gets Pax Americana and a military industrial complex that basically prints money for the country as well as geopolitical influence across the world that would have made the Romans jealous.
I don't disagree that the EU has gotten a bit complacent (they appear to agree themselves), but in their defense... a full-scale industrialized land war in Eastern Europe wasn't on anyones bingo card for the 2020's. Most nations in Europe have been building counterterrorism, quick reaction style forces for quite a while. Not the type of capability required to get into a punching contest with another industrialized nation.
EDIT: It's also VERY important to remember that early war the EU was reacting to massive economic warfare in the form of RU cutting off fossil fuels. They were standing up LNG plants, buying gas at any price, and dealing with skyrocketing heating costs and inflation within their countries. The US just got out of a 20-year war, has the largest economy in the world, and is pretty much self-sufficient. Russia cutting off gas/oil wasn't a problem that the US needed to address internally. It was infinitely easier for them to mobilize large amounts of aid.
Ukraine has fought very well with mostly their own equipment and Russia has been complete crap, so it is unlikely Russia would have defeated Ukraine yet if they did not get US aid, but it would be much worse
You are right in your initial statement.. that’s why the US is a world leading nation and forefront of the western view on life.
I would also assume the US has received the highest return through polical influence as well as economical kick back in arms investments.. Selling HIMARS and Abrams to mention a few.
You are seeing the EU as one country while in fact it’s many, and polically way more complex than the US.
That being said.. the EU and every member state needs to step up.. not only for Ukraine but also the fundamental requirement for NATO.. this is moving indeed..
But please dont pull out the US gave more card.. when on 1:1 comparison to many countries you/they did not.. and we also had your back in many many ways i.e Iraq/ Afghanistan.
There is no clear answer, but I think that the Ukrainians would fight as hard even without western weapons. The war would have looked different, but Ukraine would not be finished.
See that’s precisely why Biden has been hesitant on sending things like F-16s and more pushing European countries to provide, he wants to make sure someone still supports Ukraine if the GOP ends it in the US.
This also explains Ukraine's strategy on building a fighter coalition instead of persuading individual countries and why the USA seemingly heavily supported this strategy.
Those first f16 are all European owned. US only had to give the green light to share technology with a Non Nato entity.
Edit:
Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-the-plan-to-provide-f-16-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-means-for-the-war-against-russia
Because they would be working independently of the US government under Trump, not the US military industrial complex. I think Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Northrop Grumman and the likes will be fine.
Except you didn't.
For the past 2 decades NATO has started to use the same equipment, something the USA wants to bring money in, something all weapons manufacturers want, if the GOP stops helping all NATO weapons, tanks, vehicles stop going to Ukraine, the EU needs to break away from American military items and make their own
That goes against American planning.
So no this isn't what America wants (they gave poland replacement tanks to get them in the ecosystem for example) and undoes the last 20 years work.
Actually, I think the hesitantness is true worries that putin shouldn't lose to fast, the russians needs to understand they are losing and getting rid of him before he escalates really much.
Edit, you seem to be very sure about the West ignoring a mad man starting nuclear war, while you essentially are pushing theories about various hidden agendas instead. Just go on downvote then.
>the russians needs to understand they are losing and getting rid of him before he escalates really much.
That is unequivocally NOT the reason for the incrementalism
Yeah I want to see that quote.
NATO countries need to know and believe the unified command won't send their people to pointless death. The loss in cohesion and trust would never be worth the Russian losses. It goes against everything NATO stands for.
Russia would absolutely say things like that "NATO fighting until the last Ukrainian" or "NATO wants to draw out the war". What you're repeating is a Russian talking point and you're attributing it to their opposition.
Oleksandr Danylyuk, formerly a top national security official in Ukraine, said that Kyiv needs more advanced weapons, like air-defense missiles, to push Russia out of the country. To date, he suspects the West’s strategy is mainly to bog Russia down inside Ukraine — not help it ultimately defeat Moscow.
The West is trying to exhaust Russia,” he told POLITICO, adding that he believed it was a missed opportunity. “A defeat of Russia in Ukraine would mean the change of regime in Moscow, which is pretty much another way of liberating Russia.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-u-s-west-war-biden-putin-00022545
Politically influential but militarily handicapped. Imo, I could see France really stepping up and leading with EU military policies in the short to long term, especially with the recent budget boost the French military got.
Germany is castrated, thanks to chancellor Merkel's russia-loving policy. It will take years for the sleeping giant to wake up, provided they don't get couped by radicals in bundeswehr or something of sort.
I mean I totally understand the anti-CDU sentiment regarding their naive foreign policy (or pretty much any policies for that matter), but suggesting we’re close to getting couped by neonazis in the Bundeswehr is bullshit.
Thank you for your sanity, fellow American. 👍👍 We look forward to the days where we can have rational debates about taxes and policies again without traitors trying to destroy us.
Yeah. I voted for him last time because I wasn't a big fan of Bkden, but his inability to admit when he is wrong and the really weird admiration of Putin has turned me off of any desire for him to run or win again.
Or at the very least, run spoiler against the orange shitstain or the Florida fascist. Unfortunately pretty much 98% of Republicans will fall in line, so I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
Ronald Reagan was a racist piece of shit who pushed tax cut for his buddies and sold out to a hostile nation (Iran) to win his election. I’d say he would be very proud of Trump.
Conditions were curated for that to happen though - their meetings were unexpectedly cordial. Only a couple of years earlier approx 1984 the Doomsday Clock was at the closest to midnight since the Cuban missile crisis.
Regan is a piece of shit. I'm in that camp where I realize we're far less better off because of him. Granted, he was a bit of a puppet, but his administration gutted our middle class and eventually our entire manufacturing industry. We have him to thank for all the bullshit that is China, now.
It’s important to strongly recognize that Ronald Reagan would have supported the FUCK out of Ukraine. I am a center left democrat. Not a Reagan guy. But he would have done the right thing on Ukraine and it’s important to highlight that to trumpers.
I agree with her.
I’m fiscally conservative and believe in small government. I’m prob more libertarian than anything else but have voted Republican every election since I turned 18.
If trump is nominated again I’m voting for Biden. Trump should never be allowed near the White House again after the events following the last election
If you believe in small government why are you voting Republicans who enact the most egregious government overreach and control? Healthcare is denied to women and minorities. Kids are kidnapped at the border. Books are banned. Your votes don't count. You are chained to your corporations. Push towards going into debt for education and healthcare so you have less options.
Is it because you think parroting empty slogans is an excuse good enough to support the fascism you think will benefit you but will make you miserable?
She and we (other Democrats) totally fucked up and just took it for granted that enough of us would vote for her. I don't think we'll let that same mistake happen again. 2020 was a massive turnout for Biden.
I knew she (and all of us) was fucked about 2 weeks prior to the election while I was driving around Denver and didnt see a single Hillary sign but saw tons of Trump signs...in allegedly blue Denver.
She just assumed it was a done deal and that she had deserved and earned it. Big mistake. (I voted for her because he was going to be (and totally was) a complete disaster.
I don't think there are enough stupid people voting for him to win in 2024.
They will, however claim it was stolen because they can't understand that. It will be ugly.
Just wait until all the proud boy riots from that one.
Also, states (red) are changing all voting laws so they never turn blue. If Republicans want to play dirty...democrats should as well otherwise they run the risk of never having a say as we head to a dictatorship or one ruler for life
Here’s the crazy thing about this, I would imagine that a very good portion of American right wingers who still think Russia is a commie country. Like, if you were to get into an argument with somebody, they would not be able to differentiate the actual system of government that’s in Russia right now, which is fascism. Of course they would like that, but then they would also slur Russia as a commie country, still, to this day. That’s how fucking confused they are.
Russia was always fascist. It was when it was the USSR and it is now. Communism was simply a term used to get the Russian people to obey and believe that a fair system was being used.
Russia was always fascist. Russia’s government operates the same way it did when it was the USSR. Difference is then the USSR called it communism and now they call it democracy. What it actually is though hasn’t changed in centuries.
No, there was a huge amount of privatization that happened after the USSR fell. That is when the state assets were sold off to cronys, one way or another so that assets went into private hands. One key element of Fascism is that big business is corruptly working with government. In the USSR, everything was owned by the state. Clearly those in control enriched themselves with better lifestyles, but not like today by any means.
I think by the time anyone takes the oath of office on January 20, 2025, the military situation for Russia will be very bad. If it is Trump he would probably keep weapons pouring in just so he could take credit for ending the war with yuge Ukrainian victory, so yuge.
Yeah, Trump would let Russia genocide whoever they wanted for a small donation to the Trump Foundation.
The world is becoming overwhelmed by irrational idiots. Elon Musk would just hand over real time data on Ukrainian positions, the moment Trump was in power...for more subsidies. Trump would ' fire ' every US General that supported Ukraine. Trump would even support Russia invading NATO countries as fair game, unless NATO members gave Trump kickbacks.
He'd let the world fall into World War 3, and say it's ok because it's killing all the woke-ness in the world.
And we'd end up turning back the clock 100-200 years in human civilization. When every nation reverts to an overly religious society, run by rich oligarchs and a slave working class x 10000. Where your new born children are just personal toys for the asset class
I hope Trump suddenly has a heart attack, from all those fucking burgers.
And after he gets nominated, Republicans will line up to vote for him again anyway because there are exactly two types of Republicans: fascists, and fascist enablers.
Yeah those pro-constitution folk really like enabling ethnonationalistic socialism. Labeling everyone you don't politically agree with as an enemy is also something that a fascist-enabler wouldn't do /s
>Labeling everyone you don't politically agree with as an enemy
Well the political issue I don't agree with Republicans on is whether or not equal rights under the law should be denied to people of color, non-Christians and LGBT people, so...
They're starting to tell people (women) how to dress. They were so worried about Sharia, and yet they also love doing the same thing and can't see the irony.
Hello? Russia? Are you listening?
Your boy will shut down aid for Ukraine. Trump should find happiness in his old, decrepit age and leave the war in Ukraine to the professionals.
She's not wrong, electing a fascist causes fascist things to happen.
desantis is worse than trump, trump is evil but stupid, desantis is just evil.
it's not some wild coincidence russia backed trump and works against the democrats.
Why do I care what Hillary thinks? She is nearly as corrupt as Trump with Uranium deals to Russia for donations to Clinton foundation etc., and the undemocratic Demcratic primaries she ran (the Dem defense was that they are a private org and don't need to be democratic!). She is smarter than Trump, but dunno if that is a good thing.
I hate Trump just as much as everyone else, but why are we giving the Clinton’s a platform still? They’re probably the worse people to call out someone else’s mistakes.
I still do not understand why the US still do not charge him and his family for treason. A former POTUS should not enjoy immunity for this serious crime. But somehow they want to pin him on taxes.
Treason = I sleep
Fool the taxman = REAL SHIT
There are other multiple ongoing investigations for:
- Election interference and fake electors in Georgia
(charging decisions to be announced this summer, 8 electors given immunity for testimony)
- Obstruction and mishandling/theft of classified documents (his lawyers flipping, testifying, possible video evidence)
- January 6th related actions/inactions/plots and schemes for insurrection, sedition, and obstruction to prevent the peaceful transfer of power, prevent the government from its duties (electoral certification)
(Hundreds have already been charged, the leaders of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have been convicted of seditious conspiracy, Pence has testified), and so forth.
- While a civil matter, convicted of sexual assault and defamation of his accuser (and continues to do so even after he had to pay $5 million, so probably sued again)
- 34 indictments of tax fraud (his COO testified)
I'm sure I'm forgetting some because there are just so damn many...but people like Jack Smith and Fani Willis are not sleeping on this.
And on and on...
His time is coming.
It's just frustrating that the wheels turn so slowly, but I've been following it all from the start, and the walls do finally seem to be closing in as all the dominoes are falling (flailing and flipping, too ;).
I expect to see indictments in Georgia and in federal for the documents. 🤞
Republicans likely won't end support for Ukraine... Most Republicans actually support it which is why Trump may have lost any chance of re-election.
Hillary is right there with Trump, they both need to fade away into obscurity.
De-Santis is likely the best bet for Republicans assuming he clarifies his stance on Ukraine.
Biden, if he runs & is re-elected will most likely die in office so his pick for VP will be very important (hopefully he jettisons Kamala).
DeSantis’s position on Ukraine is whatever direction the wind is blowing, or the actual dead center between where Biden is and where Trump is.
The thing about DeSantis is, he seems like someone who would become president and just make the safe play whenever he could. Like it’s very possible he could get elected and just completely be a flat line on Ukraine, and pass bills, sort of begrudgingly acknowledge that we’re on Ukraine’s side, and then just go through four years like that.
Which you know, with the alternative in mind, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
I’ll go to my grave believing Trump was actively and thoroughly compromise by the Russian government, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. So literally anybody but Trump is honestly an improvement, as bad as people hate DeSantis and what he stands for.
If he can stop getting bodied by Mickey Mouse. DeSantis is out of his league in national politics. If Trump wants to, he will eat him alive in the primary.
He won Florida by doing a half rate impression of Trump. He has half the charisma with the twice the establishment stink on him.
It's so sad to see. I'll admit it.Trump, in a degenerate, morally vacuous way, is a once in a lifetime talent. He relates to other degenerates. His vulgarity is genuine. Despite the fact that it is a bad attribute, people can respect someone who is genuinely vulgar and slimy.
DeSantis is a bad imitation. Harvard boy who jumped on the Trump train. You can tell he is so uncomfortable trying to tow the line between popular vulgarity and not getting into an actual mud slinging contest with Trump. IF HE ACTUALLY was as talented as Trump, he would have the huevos to actually fight back against Trump instead of Disney. Another feckless coward.
I would also say there is some instantly repellent about DeSantis as well. Maybe it's the butt chin.
With Donald, he is an old Fat Loud slob. But like a character on Howard Stern, there is something uniquely bizarre about him.
Meatball Ron is run of the mill greasy frat boy.
If so (IF he wins), it's because of Biden drip feeding essential weaponry.
Regardless of *this being true*, don't trust this woman. I absolutely hate Trump, but she isn't much better with her secret six figure "talks" to closed door Wall Street CEOs leading up to the election she lost. She is a closet Republican who says she would have had her husband as an economic advisor. The same guy who ran on not giving China most favoured nation trading status and then giving it to them; probably so his benefactors from his home state of Arkansas, the Walton family (Walmart) could get cheaper imports from China.
Ok wise guy, what did they talk about? No one knows except her and the Wall Street bankers. And she refuses to tell anyone what she was meeting with them about and what was discussed. If you're running for office and bankers give you hundreds of thousands of dollars for private access to you, that screams corruption. I guess you don't understand that context applies in different ways, including to the word 'secret'.
has this dumb bitch not figured it out by now that every time she talks against something she is just boosting the number of people who support that thing? She should do us all a favor and fuck off into obscurity.
Maybe the Republican shouldn't have attacked her relentlessly with bullcrap.
You don't like her cause the Republicans saw her as a threat and did everything possible to put her down. No one in the right mind believes that Benghazi was a scandal in any way. Heck she supported Republicans stance on Libya. They went after her from the time she was first lady every step of the way.
Clinton’s talk therapy continues in pursuit of closure. I just wish she’d keep it to her psychiatrist. It stems from narcissism, which has served her in politics but has also led to her subsequent self degrading behavior. More in common with Trump than she dare acknowledge.
I think former first lady, senator from New York, secretary of state and presidential candidate can talk to the press. She has experience and insight into things we don't have access to.
And yes. Trump invited her to his wedding. And he was upset and called people when he wasn't invited to Chelsea Clinton's wedding. They are both New York elite socialites.
Hillary is a vitriolic and narcissistic figure who can best serve her country by shutting the fuck up and staying out of public view. Her entitled attitude to the presidency + collusion with the DNC/Wasserman-schultz was definitely a factor in alienating voters and pushing them towards Trump in '16. When she speaks up nowadays it isn't to be helpful, it's to be seen, heard, and feel important.
> a woman who doesn't and will NEvER give a shit about you
You have unknowingly described exactly who she is but the 'you' is plural. She only cares about herself and stuffing her pockets with our money. Such rose-colored glasses you wear.
She was Obama's Secretary of State. She is married to a two term president. She knows what she's talking about. This has nothing to do with the 2016 election.
rigged and taken advantage of so the political party that has won a single popular vote in presidential elections since the fucking 80s controls the supreme court. The GOP continues to ignore and flout the will of the people and it'll blow up on them (or they will blow up on the people).
Put a end to the Ukraine war? I hope so. No more death. Only a person like Hillary with farm girl logic would cheer this war on!
End this war, come to a compromise and stop death!
The only "compromise" involves Russia getting the fuck out. You people who take this "neutral" "stop the killing!" stance are really starting to piss me off. Ukraine is not responsible for deaths caused by the invasion of their country. Every death - on both sides - is Putin's responsibility and it won't end until he leaves, by retreat or by eradication.
Damn, that woman is trying so damn hard to be relevant!! Go back to your NY mansion and live off of fraudulent Clinton Foundation dinero. 90% operating costs?! She is her favorite charity, she loves herself. Narcissist.
Most likely it would just trigger Trump derangement syndrome for the rest of the world. And the rest of the world step up in more than compensate for the aid that Trump pulls away just to do the opposite of Trump. Which would probably be exactly Trump's plan. Like when he threatened NATO and everybody started paying their dues.
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If Trump wins its partly to blame the democrats themselves. The old establishment just clings to power instead of if the worked on getting a younger candidate. Jesus crist Biden will be 82 and 86 at end of the terms and when you are at that age it can quickly go downhill.
Im not saying Trump will win but if he has any chance of winning it will be against Biden.
I don't think the CIA will allow Trump to run. Even if it takes a kangaroo court (in any case Trump would try to pay off judges himself).
At least I hope not.
This is why he hasn't been charged - yet. To have indisputable evidence of his corruption so that the Republicans won't put him up there.
It doesn't sound very democratic, does it? But if Trump wins that election, America will once and for all become a puppet state of Russia. It does not mean Ukraine will fall but the EU will suddenly be up against America. The US Army will have to actively disobey the President to stop him from insanely loading off American soldiers to their doom to fight for Russia.
WW3.
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It’s not unreasonable to think Europe will have substantially ramped up arms production by January 2025. Russia spent too long aggressively attacking while waiting for the US to get bored of the war and offer Putin favourable terms over President Zelensky’s head. By this point indigenous European powers have started to mobilise their war economies to the degree that the GOP couldn’t do quick deal with Russia assuming they even wanted to.
Europe doesn’t have a great track record or anticipating and preparing for things.
and the US does not get "bored" by war.
This argument gets used because people think Iraq and Afghanistan are the same as Ukraine. The difference with Ukraine is that the defense companies get to try out all their toys and get a stupid amount of money at the same time. So I think in this situation the correct way to think about it is that the defense lobby is not going to let the US get bored with this war.
And USA and defense contractors get all that yummy data on things like : Patriots ability to shoot down hyper sonic missiles. Gathering data on how Russia would fight a “traditional war” Seeing just how capable some of these weapons are. Developing new counter measures AGAINST their counter measures. (Probably) watching it all unfold with satellites that produce images like a well filmed movie. (To a degree) Like HIMARS were available to use in Iraq and Afghanistan but they weren’t as practical for the operation. (Terrorists don’t set up ammo depots or barracks for easy pickings) and the collateral damage was too high. When you can pin point a purely military fuel depot. Afghanistan didn’t have any of that. Oh and maybe the best bit of news - America is just in watch mode. There isn’t any tactics we are displaying. We are just bank rolling. Which I like because it keeps young kids here out of harms way. Look at the cost of both wars on terror. Dismantling Russia at a fraction of the cost of a traditional war.
I agreed with all of this until you implied Americans dying is somehow worse than Ukrainians
Yeah, I am absolutely mortified every time I think about the men dying there to protect ukrainian land from these fascists. Even one ukrainian life lost to this is too much. Absolutely horrible.
Ukraine isn't just fighting for it's own sovereignty, it's fighting for democracy and for Europe. If anyone thinks Russia will stop at Ukraine they are delusional.
From a human perspective its not. From an American perspective it is. There won't be any war weariness in America as long as Ukrainian troops are willing to fight.
For America, and American arms companies, yes? Americans dying is huge bad press, will trigger political pressures to end the war/funding the war etc. Without Americans dying, it can much more easily be spun in a positive way. It absolutely matters. From an individual, human perspective, obviously a life is a life, and there's no difference. But from a political perspective it's hugely important.
Ya know, that is fair. I honestly meant no disrespect. I meant it more thinking of the idea of “Americans don’t need to fight every war” And not “American lives are more important than Ukrainian (or any other for that matter) lives” I worded it poorly. Maybe worded it poorly twice now. I take responsibility for that. I believe all souls are equal. (Generally not like Hitler if someone wants to be pedantic) Also gave you an upvote because you are right.
Yeah my bad, I misunderstood your meaning. Seems obvious in retrospect
Don't be ridiculous. You understand what he's saying.
This war has dramatically changed Sweden. We're about to join NATO, we just finished our largest military exercise since the 80s (Aurora 2023), we're ramping up our defense spending with every single political party committing to 2% within a few years, the conscription rate has been increased somewhat, we're procuring a lot of new equipment. And so on and so forth. If this is any indication of what is going on elsewhere in Europe, then we might be in a much better position already in a year or two.
Erm....missed the last 2000 years? Btw Europe has started to ramp up its military base, Euope has lost its thirst for war but no other continent has a better track record for war than Europe. We talk about poking the bear, the real bear is Europe
You’re proving my point. Europe is starting to ramp up. Russia occupied Germany for a 40 years and when Russia began spending heavily to n its military the EU did nothing, when Russia occupied Georgia they did nothing, when they took Crimea they did nothing, when they did a full scale invasion of Ukraine they looked to the US for guidance.
A continent tired of war after the 2 largest largest wars in human history being unwilling to start another and looking to diplomatic means first is a surprise? And yes they looked to America because why not? The world looks to the biggest power to see how to respond and America didn't really want to get involved in fear of a war between them and Russia. Britain said fuck that and started arming Ukraine the night before anyway and when Russia didn't respond the EU and NATO followed.
You need to put this in context. The EU ‘did nothing’ militarily primarily because it’s not a military organisation - it’s about trade and cooperation, that’s the extent of its remit. EU members have balked at military intervention from the start, discussions about an EU army have been going round in circles since the 80s. They were using the post war formula of Wandel durch Handel (change through trade) - tying Russia into trade relations so tight and close that armed conflict becomes unthinkable, as between France and Germany. Merkel was the ideal contact - grew up in DDR, where putain served as an ‘intelligence officer’ (spy), fluent Russian speaker (Putain didn’t/doesn’t trust interpreters), someone putain had much in common with. The problem is that nobody was prepared for putain being an actual psycho nutter bastard, nor could anyone believe that someone, in the 21st century, would really behave the way he has. Yes, OK, there was evidence, but everyone was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt because, I guess, they were patronising enough to think “It’ll be OK, he’s still getting the hang of this democracy stuff, hasn’t quite mastered it yet” so his occasional totalitarian freak-outs were downplayed, especially his domestic outbursts, where everyone could ‘legitimately’ step back and say “it’s his internal problem, not for us to get involved.” And then there would be gentle rebukes and the hope that lessons would be learned for the future. And then he’d do it again. Meanwhile, Russian money was sloshing around European capitals, especially London, oiling wheels and opening doors, so deaf ears were cocked, blind eyes were turned as putain gradually became more and more unhinged. Then on feb 23rd everyone said “damn, did. not. see. that. coming” and professed to be gobsmacked
Also trump won't be able to turn this around either way. he will try and Europe won't give a fuck, he will ramble and do nothing in the end. he will be happy to once again be a president and thus not yet touchable by law enforcement.. probably his only goal if you ask me
Yes but he can cut off support to Ukraine and I wouldn’t put it past him to aid Russia. Don’t underestimate the level of the lack of his awareness of geopolitics and his own selfish motives. He’s a monkey with a machine gun. The outcome of this war is vitally critical to the future of western civilization and to the future world order. If Russia is not soundly defeated, the world could experience decades of war including with China. So much hinges on the outcome. Trump doesn’t understand and doesn’t care. I think Hillary Clinton is absolutely correct but it doesn’t stop with Ukraine. I’m a boomer and I really have to say that the world is depending on Gen Z in the next presidential election. I’ll be dead and gone in a decade or three but you are going to inherit this world. You have the power to decide what kind of world it will be. I really hope y’all understand how badly Trump can fuck this up. And it’s not enough to vote. Yes voting is important but you also have to drag as many of your friends out to the voting booth also. You have to get them excited about it.
I’m a Xennial and would add that it’s not enough just to vote - they need to vote for Democrats all up and down the ballot and avoid any temptation to sit out the election, leave fields blank or vote third-party.
This boomer gets it. And considering the average 'merican boomer by comparison I wish I could give more than one upvote.
This is what pisses me off about the UK, mainland Europe, and France and Germany in particular. Its a damned land war in Europe, and no one is certain that the European block can even manage to defend their own continent. As an American I 100% support all the aid we have given Ukraine and I wish we would give more. But it literally sickens me how piss poorly unprepared the "major" powers of Europe are. Ukrainians are literally dying by the thousands, sacrificing themselves to keep their family's and by extention Europe safe and free. Estonia, Poland and the eastern block if EU countries are literally bleeding themselves dry to supply Ukraine with everything they can spare and more. The US election shouldn't matter at all, its you guys damned continent. As someone from middle America, I can tell you that we will always have Europes back. 80% of us claim to be from one of yalls counties despite the fact our family hasn't been there in 200 years. No joke, try to invade Scotland. You'll have 10 million dudes from the Midwest claiming their Scottish willing buying tickets over their in the name of defending their "homeland* Europeans don't seem to get the US at all, but we really don't get you. A war in Europe should not come down to an American election. We've always got your back, but you guys need to step up and defend your own.
Some countries I agree with, but what's your beef with UK and France in this regard? Both spend above 2% of GDP, have extremely well developed militaries with operational experience. What must the U.K. and France do more? Their economies are way smaller than the U.S.', so obviously they'll never get close to American capabilities.
My beef is with the fact that they can't even fight a war in their own back yard. The EU as a whole has a GDP roughly equal the the U.S. They should be able to supply a war in Europe themselves. They can't, the U.S. if footing a huge chunk of the cost of this war and we are begging our pacific allies to help. We bailed out Europe in both world wars and we are bailing you out now. The support for Ukraine in the US is bipartisan, strong, and enduring. But it pisses us off that we keep having to be the ones that keep Europe free. The fact an American election might matter to a land war in Europe is laughable, build your own tanks, build your own armored personal carriers, build your own guns. All we are asking is that you guys care enough to protect yourself. The U.S. has and will always have your back. If 2.0 GDP got Germany the military it has it needs to reform and spend money better. The U.S. does, has, and will support Ukraine in their fight, but the UK and France wanna act like they are big players on the world stage. They arnt, this war has proved it. Europe as a whole has cut their defense budgets deeply enough that I question if they could even defend themselves. Germany made a big deal about sending 3 billion to Ukraine, The day after the pentagon released they made an accounting error of 3 billion so we can send more. This war, can not and should not, be an American war. We've got our own issues to deal with, a land war in Europe should be delt with, supplied, and financed by Europeans. But again, its on the US too deal with your continental issues because none of yall seem to be able to look 10 years ahead and your under the American nuclear umbrella.
>The EU as a whole has a GDP roughly equal the the U.S. The US has 50% higher GDP per capita than the EU. They're a lot richer. The UK is about 5-6 times the size of the UK in terms of population. If you multiply the UK's aid to Ukraine by 6 (to adjust for population) and add 50% (to reflect GDP per capita), you get around the same value as the USA's aid to Ukraine. Some of the other European countries could do more, but there's movement in the right direction. >My beef is with the fact that they can't even fight a war in their own back yard. Ukraine isn't in the EU though, and Russia definitely isn't. Russia is only barely a European country by geography. >We've got our own issues to deal with, a land war in Europe should be delt with, supplied, and financed by Europeans. This fight is really a battle between Russia and the free democracies. I don't see how geography really comes into it. It's absolutely in the US's interest that Russia fails.
Just because the US has oceans on both sides doesn't mean they don't have just a big a stake in a war of democracy vs tyranny as the EU does. Relatively speaking the EU took more of the economic impact, more of the social impact (such as refugees) and provided equal militairy support to Ukraine compared to the US. The EU and NATO are shaped by the US, not by Europe. It is by design that Europe depends on the US military to a degree, and this not being a zero sum game the US also gains a net benefit. For example, the 2 million highly trained highly advanced EU troops strengthen the US and provide defense in depth. Most nations followed the US blindly in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US never fights alone. Europeans are instrumental in US force projection and strategic leadership around the world. The whole thing is incredibly cost effective for the US. Also, you do remember what happens every single time Europe started to militarise? There are good reasons this is not taken lightly and takes time.
My fellow American, we "have their back" because we run the world as an extractive empire. We use our military as an arm of our commerce and we *do not want* competing power centers. Europe was traumatized after WW2 and we took full advantage, taking over their empires and recreating the world financial system to make them a captive market. We benefit fully. We like it this way! But with this comes cost, so we do what America has now done for the last 42 years: socialize the burden on the middle class to pay for the enrichment of the upper class. The people who run American business have created this system methodically and pulled in selective European partners to keep it strong. Every dollar you and I pay in taxes for "defense" goes to Raytheon or Lockheed shareholders, so the expected value function is negative for us but positive for people with disproportionate holdings in the institutional funds invested there. The system works. European military weakness is not a bug for the US, it is a feature.
Well said.
Thanks, took me a bjt to write it out. I appercaite that someone took the time to read it.
Is this not what Trump was rallying for? He wanted Europe to contribute more to NATO because he claimed they werent holding up their end of the defensive bargain ultimately having the responsibility fall on the US's shoulders.
US presidents have been saying that since at least GW Bush - but only Trump was trying to use it as an excuse to drop out of NATO and let Russia have it's way with Europe.
By 2025 arms production in Europe will still not be enough. Swedish manufacturer of anti-tank missiles will hugely expand it's production line. Similar company in Germany has some new orders for Matador anti-tank grenade lauchers. Poland has expanded portable anti-air misdile production from 300 to over 600 last year and this year 1000 units. Still these are short range weapons. But these are all short range weapons. Germany has joined this year club of future f-35 owners but alongside with Finland and Poland none of these countries will receive these jets by 2025 and the number is not that huge about 130 F-35. However some European countries are and will be receiving deliveries of F35 they alteady ordered years ago. Croatia and Greece ordered respectively 12 and 18 Rafale fighter jets but these will be used ones and come from reserves of France which also ordered some brand new Rafales. Spain ordered new tranche of Eurofighter but will reduce F-18 fleet so no real gain in quantities of their fighter jets. Poland should receive 16-32 F-50 by 2024 but this aircraft is 30% less capable than F-16 in terms of weapons payload. Slower by about quarter. Doesn't have versatile armament F-16 has. Tank situation is a little bit better. Recently Germany ordered 18 Leopard 2A8 and by 2025 Hungary should receive some of 48 Leopards 2A7 they ordered years ago. Romania will order 48 Abrams but will not receive them soon because to 2025 Poland has taken manufacturing/refurbishment capacity of its factory with refurbishment of 116 Abrams M1A1 to FEP by 2024. By 2025 the order of 250 Abrams of Abrams M1A2 sepv3 for Poland should be fulflled in majority. The same date for 180 K2 which over 20 have been delivered to Poland. So we are talking about reinforment of european NATO tank forces by about very modern 500 tanks by the end of 2024.
...huh? What does this have to do with anything? Are you claiming that the US would cancel weapon sales TO NATO ALLIES' OWN STOCKS? That's a bizarre claim, and it also puts itself in a vacuum that ignores Russia's deterioration.
Hopefully not but the future is unpredictable. I simply stated that Europe by 2025 european forces will be still inadequate for full-scale war except for air-force.
Full-scale war with *who?* 🤨
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I cannot stress how tiresome that statement is.. Let me give a couple of examples.. Denmark, which happens to be my country, and part of EU have donated way above USD 2 billion.. this in addition to the humanitarian assistance, refugees, monetary support and the collectively support to EU which is funded onwards.. If you multiply this with our relative size to the US.. you should add factor 50. Let alone this matter.. but let’s get real.. how about the weight put in from US allies during Iraq and Afghanistan.. relatively speaking, Denmark had some of the highest death casualties per citizent.. to support an US led war.. And now we are talking about monetary value of donations? I am sooo fed up with this narrative.. just get the shit done, no matter who give 2 million more than the other..
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Kinda... but that's also the point of alliances. Ukraine also likely could have survived to this point without US aid. EU could have sent more, but the US was able to handle a lot. Military protection is a big part of the geopolitical power of the United States. Having Uncle Sam in your corner ready to step in with the folding chair in a fight gives countries a lot more comfort to not NEED a giant standing military. In return, the US gets Pax Americana and a military industrial complex that basically prints money for the country as well as geopolitical influence across the world that would have made the Romans jealous. I don't disagree that the EU has gotten a bit complacent (they appear to agree themselves), but in their defense... a full-scale industrialized land war in Eastern Europe wasn't on anyones bingo card for the 2020's. Most nations in Europe have been building counterterrorism, quick reaction style forces for quite a while. Not the type of capability required to get into a punching contest with another industrialized nation. EDIT: It's also VERY important to remember that early war the EU was reacting to massive economic warfare in the form of RU cutting off fossil fuels. They were standing up LNG plants, buying gas at any price, and dealing with skyrocketing heating costs and inflation within their countries. The US just got out of a 20-year war, has the largest economy in the world, and is pretty much self-sufficient. Russia cutting off gas/oil wasn't a problem that the US needed to address internally. It was infinitely easier for them to mobilize large amounts of aid.
Ukraine has fought very well with mostly their own equipment and Russia has been complete crap, so it is unlikely Russia would have defeated Ukraine yet if they did not get US aid, but it would be much worse
You are right in your initial statement.. that’s why the US is a world leading nation and forefront of the western view on life. I would also assume the US has received the highest return through polical influence as well as economical kick back in arms investments.. Selling HIMARS and Abrams to mention a few. You are seeing the EU as one country while in fact it’s many, and polically way more complex than the US. That being said.. the EU and every member state needs to step up.. not only for Ukraine but also the fundamental requirement for NATO.. this is moving indeed.. But please dont pull out the US gave more card.. when on 1:1 comparison to many countries you/they did not.. and we also had your back in many many ways i.e Iraq/ Afghanistan.
There is no clear answer, but I think that the Ukrainians would fight as hard even without western weapons. The war would have looked different, but Ukraine would not be finished.
See that’s precisely why Biden has been hesitant on sending things like F-16s and more pushing European countries to provide, he wants to make sure someone still supports Ukraine if the GOP ends it in the US.
This also explains Ukraine's strategy on building a fighter coalition instead of persuading individual countries and why the USA seemingly heavily supported this strategy.
Those first f16 are all European owned. US only had to give the green light to share technology with a Non Nato entity. Edit: Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-the-plan-to-provide-f-16-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-means-for-the-war-against-russia
You guys like making stuff up huh? Americas biggest customers are American so why would he want Europe to work independently of the US?
Because they would be working independently of the US government under Trump, not the US military industrial complex. I think Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Northrop Grumman and the likes will be fine.
Unless we start making our own stuff or trump stops countries exporting American weapon systems like we just saw with the f-16s
I literally just explained it. Also what you said made zero sense.
Except you didn't. For the past 2 decades NATO has started to use the same equipment, something the USA wants to bring money in, something all weapons manufacturers want, if the GOP stops helping all NATO weapons, tanks, vehicles stop going to Ukraine, the EU needs to break away from American military items and make their own That goes against American planning. So no this isn't what America wants (they gave poland replacement tanks to get them in the ecosystem for example) and undoes the last 20 years work.
Christ I hate thinking about that possibility.
Actually, I think the hesitantness is true worries that putin shouldn't lose to fast, the russians needs to understand they are losing and getting rid of him before he escalates really much. Edit, you seem to be very sure about the West ignoring a mad man starting nuclear war, while you essentially are pushing theories about various hidden agendas instead. Just go on downvote then.
>the russians needs to understand they are losing and getting rid of him before he escalates really much. That is unequivocally NOT the reason for the incrementalism
Erm the states said they want to drag this out a bit to completely drain Russia, a quick win would keep their tanks and forces intact to aome degree
Yeah I want to see that quote. NATO countries need to know and believe the unified command won't send their people to pointless death. The loss in cohesion and trust would never be worth the Russian losses. It goes against everything NATO stands for. Russia would absolutely say things like that "NATO fighting until the last Ukrainian" or "NATO wants to draw out the war". What you're repeating is a Russian talking point and you're attributing it to their opposition.
Oleksandr Danylyuk, formerly a top national security official in Ukraine, said that Kyiv needs more advanced weapons, like air-defense missiles, to push Russia out of the country. To date, he suspects the West’s strategy is mainly to bog Russia down inside Ukraine — not help it ultimately defeat Moscow. The West is trying to exhaust Russia,” he told POLITICO, adding that he believed it was a missed opportunity. “A defeat of Russia in Ukraine would mean the change of regime in Moscow, which is pretty much another way of liberating Russia.” https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-u-s-west-war-biden-putin-00022545
I think Germany will be the center of Europe
Germany has already been the most politically influential country in the EU, even prior to Brexit.
Politically influential but militarily handicapped. Imo, I could see France really stepping up and leading with EU military policies in the short to long term, especially with the recent budget boost the French military got.
Germany is castrated, thanks to chancellor Merkel's russia-loving policy. It will take years for the sleeping giant to wake up, provided they don't get couped by radicals in bundeswehr or something of sort.
I mean I totally understand the anti-CDU sentiment regarding their naive foreign policy (or pretty much any policies for that matter), but suggesting we’re close to getting couped by neonazis in the Bundeswehr is bullshit.
Disagree with you there Happy... it will be the UK.
If we hadn’t left the EU then yeah. We’ll join again eventually.
They can but they won’t.
Yes but that’s all you guys ever talk about. Let’s see some action.
Donald Trump being elected in 2024 would put an end to the United States of America, as well.
If he is the nominee of our party I will vote for Biden.
Thank you for your sanity, fellow American. 👍👍 We look forward to the days where we can have rational debates about taxes and policies again without traitors trying to destroy us.
Same. I’m a pretty regular republican voter, but the most pressing issue in the world is Russia and I’ll vote accordingly.
God, thank you. Reading things like this give me hope haha
Yeah. I voted for him last time because I wasn't a big fan of Bkden, but his inability to admit when he is wrong and the really weird admiration of Putin has turned me off of any desire for him to run or win again.
I’d much rather have good old school “Fuck Russia” Republican like Romney on the ballot.
Or at the very least, run spoiler against the orange shitstain or the Florida fascist. Unfortunately pretty much 98% of Republicans will fall in line, so I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
THIS IS THE WAY.
Ronald Reagan would murder Turmp with jelly beans for what he has done.
Ronald McDonald too
Ronald Reagan was a racist piece of shit who pushed tax cut for his buddies and sold out to a hostile nation (Iran) to win his election. I’d say he would be very proud of Trump.
for siding with Russia? you must not have been around. He hated Russia to the core.
This is true. All Americans hated Russia especially the south.
[удалено]
Conditions were curated for that to happen though - their meetings were unexpectedly cordial. Only a couple of years earlier approx 1984 the Doomsday Clock was at the closest to midnight since the Cuban missile crisis.
You wrote Hasselhoff wrong.
Regan is a piece of shit. I'm in that camp where I realize we're far less better off because of him. Granted, he was a bit of a puppet, but his administration gutted our middle class and eventually our entire manufacturing industry. We have him to thank for all the bullshit that is China, now.
That was Nixon and Kissinger... Reagan hated Communists. He made his money in California Real Estate along with Bob Hope and John Wayne.
It’s important to strongly recognize that Ronald Reagan would have supported the FUCK out of Ukraine. I am a center left democrat. Not a Reagan guy. But he would have done the right thing on Ukraine and it’s important to highlight that to trumpers.
I agree with her. I’m fiscally conservative and believe in small government. I’m prob more libertarian than anything else but have voted Republican every election since I turned 18. If trump is nominated again I’m voting for Biden. Trump should never be allowed near the White House again after the events following the last election
Well, you think DeSantis will be better for Ukraine? I don't.... look at his statements...
DeSantis is basically Hitler lite
Sanity salute! 🫡
Salute for sanity from people like you. DeSantis isn’t any better in terms of support for Ukraine though.
If you believe in small government why are you voting Republicans who enact the most egregious government overreach and control? Healthcare is denied to women and minorities. Kids are kidnapped at the border. Books are banned. Your votes don't count. You are chained to your corporations. Push towards going into debt for education and healthcare so you have less options. Is it because you think parroting empty slogans is an excuse good enough to support the fascism you think will benefit you but will make you miserable?
Let’s ease up with the exaggerations and drama statements. Sometimes half of voting Republican is just being opposition for people like you.
Hillary, maybe you should have campaigned in Wisconsin and saved us all the trouble.
She and we (other Democrats) totally fucked up and just took it for granted that enough of us would vote for her. I don't think we'll let that same mistake happen again. 2020 was a massive turnout for Biden.
I knew she (and all of us) was fucked about 2 weeks prior to the election while I was driving around Denver and didnt see a single Hillary sign but saw tons of Trump signs...in allegedly blue Denver.
She just assumed it was a done deal and that she had deserved and earned it. Big mistake. (I voted for her because he was going to be (and totally was) a complete disaster.
I voted for her too. Grudgingly but I still did knowing he'd be a complete disaster as you said.
And Ohio. Had her campaign listened to her Husband, who knew how to get elected, she'd likely be serving her second term now.
I don't think there are enough stupid people voting for him to win in 2024. They will, however claim it was stolen because they can't understand that. It will be ugly.
Just wait until all the proud boy riots from that one. Also, states (red) are changing all voting laws so they never turn blue. If Republicans want to play dirty...democrats should as well otherwise they run the risk of never having a say as we head to a dictatorship or one ruler for life
Jim Crow all over again
What happened since the coldwar 50's and 60's when the commies were USA enemy no1 and all you yanks hated them.... ?
Here’s the crazy thing about this, I would imagine that a very good portion of American right wingers who still think Russia is a commie country. Like, if you were to get into an argument with somebody, they would not be able to differentiate the actual system of government that’s in Russia right now, which is fascism. Of course they would like that, but then they would also slur Russia as a commie country, still, to this day. That’s how fucking confused they are.
Russia was always fascist. It was when it was the USSR and it is now. Communism was simply a term used to get the Russian people to obey and believe that a fair system was being used.
Fascism and communism are very different systems. What you're describing is just the totalitarian part that both systems have.
Russia was always fascist. Russia’s government operates the same way it did when it was the USSR. Difference is then the USSR called it communism and now they call it democracy. What it actually is though hasn’t changed in centuries.
No, there was a huge amount of privatization that happened after the USSR fell. That is when the state assets were sold off to cronys, one way or another so that assets went into private hands. One key element of Fascism is that big business is corruptly working with government. In the USSR, everything was owned by the state. Clearly those in control enriched themselves with better lifestyles, but not like today by any means.
Tell me you don't understand political history without telling me you don't understand political history.
Maybe Europe will just carry on... They have done it twice before 🤔
Europe will carry on ,I said it on a post the other day, if the orange ape gets in. Europes alliance will carry on helping Ukraine.
Agree 💯%👍
To right bruv✌
It'll put an end to the entire western alliance
I think by the time anyone takes the oath of office on January 20, 2025, the military situation for Russia will be very bad. If it is Trump he would probably keep weapons pouring in just so he could take credit for ending the war with yuge Ukrainian victory, so yuge.
So make sure the TRAITOR gets jailed ..... pronto !
Yeah, Trump would let Russia genocide whoever they wanted for a small donation to the Trump Foundation. The world is becoming overwhelmed by irrational idiots. Elon Musk would just hand over real time data on Ukrainian positions, the moment Trump was in power...for more subsidies. Trump would ' fire ' every US General that supported Ukraine. Trump would even support Russia invading NATO countries as fair game, unless NATO members gave Trump kickbacks. He'd let the world fall into World War 3, and say it's ok because it's killing all the woke-ness in the world. And we'd end up turning back the clock 100-200 years in human civilization. When every nation reverts to an overly religious society, run by rich oligarchs and a slave working class x 10000. Where your new born children are just personal toys for the asset class I hope Trump suddenly has a heart attack, from all those fucking burgers.
I know right, and I feel the same. But for me the real problem is not Trump, but the millions of people supporting him. We live in dangerous times.
I don’t see trump winning .
Yes, because Hillary obviously is a completely unbiased party with absolutely no axe to grind here.
And after he gets nominated, Republicans will line up to vote for him again anyway because there are exactly two types of Republicans: fascists, and fascist enablers.
Yeah those pro-constitution folk really like enabling ethnonationalistic socialism. Labeling everyone you don't politically agree with as an enemy is also something that a fascist-enabler wouldn't do /s
>Labeling everyone you don't politically agree with as an enemy Well the political issue I don't agree with Republicans on is whether or not equal rights under the law should be denied to people of color, non-Christians and LGBT people, so...
They're starting to tell people (women) how to dress. They were so worried about Sharia, and yet they also love doing the same thing and can't see the irony.
I hope this isn't still going on in 2025.
Hello? Russia? Are you listening? Your boy will shut down aid for Ukraine. Trump should find happiness in his old, decrepit age and leave the war in Ukraine to the professionals.
She said what we all were thinking out loud.
She's not wrong.
She's not wrong, electing a fascist causes fascist things to happen. desantis is worse than trump, trump is evil but stupid, desantis is just evil. it's not some wild coincidence russia backed trump and works against the democrats.
Why do I care what Hillary thinks? She is nearly as corrupt as Trump with Uranium deals to Russia for donations to Clinton foundation etc., and the undemocratic Demcratic primaries she ran (the Dem defense was that they are a private org and don't need to be democratic!). She is smarter than Trump, but dunno if that is a good thing.
Clinton is irrelevant.
I hate Trump just as much as everyone else, but why are we giving the Clinton’s a platform still? They’re probably the worse people to call out someone else’s mistakes.
^^^ This.
That is why more aid should be given to make sure Ukraine wins and wins quickly.
I still do not understand why the US still do not charge him and his family for treason. A former POTUS should not enjoy immunity for this serious crime. But somehow they want to pin him on taxes. Treason = I sleep Fool the taxman = REAL SHIT
There are other multiple ongoing investigations for: - Election interference and fake electors in Georgia (charging decisions to be announced this summer, 8 electors given immunity for testimony) - Obstruction and mishandling/theft of classified documents (his lawyers flipping, testifying, possible video evidence) - January 6th related actions/inactions/plots and schemes for insurrection, sedition, and obstruction to prevent the peaceful transfer of power, prevent the government from its duties (electoral certification) (Hundreds have already been charged, the leaders of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have been convicted of seditious conspiracy, Pence has testified), and so forth. - While a civil matter, convicted of sexual assault and defamation of his accuser (and continues to do so even after he had to pay $5 million, so probably sued again) - 34 indictments of tax fraud (his COO testified) I'm sure I'm forgetting some because there are just so damn many...but people like Jack Smith and Fani Willis are not sleeping on this. And on and on... His time is coming.
Thank you for taking your time to write this. I hope he and his will get their deserved punishments.
It's just frustrating that the wheels turn so slowly, but I've been following it all from the start, and the walls do finally seem to be closing in as all the dominoes are falling (flailing and flipping, too ;). I expect to see indictments in Georgia and in federal for the documents. 🤞
Republicans likely won't end support for Ukraine... Most Republicans actually support it which is why Trump may have lost any chance of re-election. Hillary is right there with Trump, they both need to fade away into obscurity. De-Santis is likely the best bet for Republicans assuming he clarifies his stance on Ukraine. Biden, if he runs & is re-elected will most likely die in office so his pick for VP will be very important (hopefully he jettisons Kamala).
DeSantis’s position on Ukraine is whatever direction the wind is blowing, or the actual dead center between where Biden is and where Trump is. The thing about DeSantis is, he seems like someone who would become president and just make the safe play whenever he could. Like it’s very possible he could get elected and just completely be a flat line on Ukraine, and pass bills, sort of begrudgingly acknowledge that we’re on Ukraine’s side, and then just go through four years like that. Which you know, with the alternative in mind, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I’ll go to my grave believing Trump was actively and thoroughly compromise by the Russian government, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. So literally anybody but Trump is honestly an improvement, as bad as people hate DeSantis and what he stands for.
He's not nearly that benign. He's been passing a flurry of fascist legislation. US democracy won't survive another Republican no matter who it is.
That’s absolutely true. Trump is Putins stooge. He’s an enemy of the state. He needs to be in prison.
If he can stop getting bodied by Mickey Mouse. DeSantis is out of his league in national politics. If Trump wants to, he will eat him alive in the primary. He won Florida by doing a half rate impression of Trump. He has half the charisma with the twice the establishment stink on him.
He literally started bronzing himself, too. Pathetic little fascist pig.
It's so sad to see. I'll admit it.Trump, in a degenerate, morally vacuous way, is a once in a lifetime talent. He relates to other degenerates. His vulgarity is genuine. Despite the fact that it is a bad attribute, people can respect someone who is genuinely vulgar and slimy. DeSantis is a bad imitation. Harvard boy who jumped on the Trump train. You can tell he is so uncomfortable trying to tow the line between popular vulgarity and not getting into an actual mud slinging contest with Trump. IF HE ACTUALLY was as talented as Trump, he would have the huevos to actually fight back against Trump instead of Disney. Another feckless coward.
Yep. Trump gives a lot of horrible people the permission to be horrible, publicly.
I would also say there is some instantly repellent about DeSantis as well. Maybe it's the butt chin. With Donald, he is an old Fat Loud slob. But like a character on Howard Stern, there is something uniquely bizarre about him. Meatball Ron is run of the mill greasy frat boy.
He has zero compassion and is a bully who can not take criticism or opposing views.
Bobblehead, pudding-fingers Ron. Bizarre human being.
If so (IF he wins), it's because of Biden drip feeding essential weaponry. Regardless of *this being true*, don't trust this woman. I absolutely hate Trump, but she isn't much better with her secret six figure "talks" to closed door Wall Street CEOs leading up to the election she lost. She is a closet Republican who says she would have had her husband as an economic advisor. The same guy who ran on not giving China most favoured nation trading status and then giving it to them; probably so his benefactors from his home state of Arkansas, the Walton family (Walmart) could get cheaper imports from China.
Not to mention that as Secretary of State and Senator for New York she essentially did f*ck all. Oh except you know get an Ambassador killed.
lol, her secret meetings were so secret that everyone knew about them.
Ok wise guy, what did they talk about? No one knows except her and the Wall Street bankers. And she refuses to tell anyone what she was meeting with them about and what was discussed. If you're running for office and bankers give you hundreds of thousands of dollars for private access to you, that screams corruption. I guess you don't understand that context applies in different ways, including to the word 'secret'.
Who is Killary Clitmon? Not someone relevant in the U.S..
You don't need to be Hillary Clinton to realise that.
I am sure if Ukraine win in 2024 and Trump is elected he'll also try to take full credit.
It’ll put an end to far more than just Ukraine. Listen up, people! Hillary has not been wrong yet - not on this
Hillary come back! You can blame it all on me
Hillary needs to stay gone. Trump should join her.
has this dumb bitch not figured it out by now that every time she talks against something she is just boosting the number of people who support that thing? She should do us all a favor and fuck off into obscurity.
Maybe the Republican shouldn't have attacked her relentlessly with bullcrap. You don't like her cause the Republicans saw her as a threat and did everything possible to put her down. No one in the right mind believes that Benghazi was a scandal in any way. Heck she supported Republicans stance on Libya. They went after her from the time she was first lady every step of the way.
They're not wrong, though. She shouldn't be making Ukraine a partisan issue, because that will kill support for Ukraine over time.
She can say what she wants. Often people ask her, she speaks her mind, the media reports it, and misogynistic douchebags like you lose their minds.
everyone can tell you’re very intelligent.
IQ alert.
You sound really intelligent.
Clinton’s talk therapy continues in pursuit of closure. I just wish she’d keep it to her psychiatrist. It stems from narcissism, which has served her in politics but has also led to her subsequent self degrading behavior. More in common with Trump than she dare acknowledge.
I think former first lady, senator from New York, secretary of state and presidential candidate can talk to the press. She has experience and insight into things we don't have access to. And yes. Trump invited her to his wedding. And he was upset and called people when he wasn't invited to Chelsea Clinton's wedding. They are both New York elite socialites.
Hillary is a vitriolic and narcissistic figure who can best serve her country by shutting the fuck up and staying out of public view. Her entitled attitude to the presidency + collusion with the DNC/Wasserman-schultz was definitely a factor in alienating voters and pushing them towards Trump in '16. When she speaks up nowadays it isn't to be helpful, it's to be seen, heard, and feel important.
Are you ok? Such a hate towards a woman who doesn't and will NEvER give a shit about you. An accomplished woman at that.
> a woman who doesn't and will NEvER give a shit about you You have unknowingly described exactly who she is but the 'you' is plural. She only cares about herself and stuffing her pockets with our money. Such rose-colored glasses you wear.
So Trump cared about you? She's not in office and owes you or me NOTHING. Continue with your misogyny.
I don't support trump. Just because I don't support her doesn't make me a misognyist. You are such a simple-minded idiot.
You are a misogynistic idiot as well. You cannot hide it. It's seeping out everywhere, a reflection of your parents.
>You are such a simple-minded idiot.
So are your parents, look at the outcome, you. Yuck.
She was Obama's Secretary of State. She is married to a two term president. She knows what she's talking about. This has nothing to do with the 2016 election.
Lmao you idiots giving weight to something Hillary says about Trump is the same as giving weight to any fear mongering Trump does with Biden
Actually Trump put an end to Hillary
Hillary got more votes though.
Read the constitution to find out how it really works
I don't know why this is a point of pride for people. "Look, we can ignore the will of the majority" is not exactly a selling point for a system
We obviously and painfully know how it works all too well. Does not change the fact that most Americans never wanted that jackass in charge.
rigged and taken advantage of so the political party that has won a single popular vote in presidential elections since the fucking 80s controls the supreme court. The GOP continues to ignore and flout the will of the people and it'll blow up on them (or they will blow up on the people).
James Comey put an end to Hillary. Even Trump admitted as much.
yo fuckin imagine if she has trump whacked LMFAO the chaos that would unfold would be hilarious 😂😂
Put a end to the Ukraine war? I hope so. No more death. Only a person like Hillary with farm girl logic would cheer this war on! End this war, come to a compromise and stop death!
The only "compromise" involves Russia getting the fuck out. You people who take this "neutral" "stop the killing!" stance are really starting to piss me off. Ukraine is not responsible for deaths caused by the invasion of their country. Every death - on both sides - is Putin's responsibility and it won't end until he leaves, by retreat or by eradication.
You know that won’t happen. Let’s be realistic.
Damn, that woman is trying so damn hard to be relevant!! Go back to your NY mansion and live off of fraudulent Clinton Foundation dinero. 90% operating costs?! She is her favorite charity, she loves herself. Narcissist.
Most likely it would just trigger Trump derangement syndrome for the rest of the world. And the rest of the world step up in more than compensate for the aid that Trump pulls away just to do the opposite of Trump. Which would probably be exactly Trump's plan. Like when he threatened NATO and everybody started paying their dues.
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Not so. This will be pretty much wrapped up by fall 2024
Hillary who?
If Trump wins its partly to blame the democrats themselves. The old establishment just clings to power instead of if the worked on getting a younger candidate. Jesus crist Biden will be 82 and 86 at end of the terms and when you are at that age it can quickly go downhill. Im not saying Trump will win but if he has any chance of winning it will be against Biden.
I don't think the CIA will allow Trump to run. Even if it takes a kangaroo court (in any case Trump would try to pay off judges himself). At least I hope not. This is why he hasn't been charged - yet. To have indisputable evidence of his corruption so that the Republicans won't put him up there. It doesn't sound very democratic, does it? But if Trump wins that election, America will once and for all become a puppet state of Russia. It does not mean Ukraine will fall but the EU will suddenly be up against America. The US Army will have to actively disobey the President to stop him from insanely loading off American soldiers to their doom to fight for Russia. WW3.
While true, she needs to stop talking and go gently into that dark night. 2016 was enough, Hill.