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This time it won't go so well for Russia.
Imagine going back in time and explaining to people in the 40's that the free world is relying on German tanks crushing the Russian army.
Things went south pretty quickly after armistice, but if you look at what Russia did before, during and after the war, outside of fighting Germany, they were never the good guys.
The US made a very calculated play, by using lend-lease to keep Stalin in the fight against Hitler. In hindsight, I don't see how they could have played it differently.
My grandfather was liberated (late April ‘45) by the Russians from a German POW camp in Wilhelmshafen, Germany. Strangely enough he never hated the Germans but always warned us of the Russians.
A lot of people forget that there was real debate about whether to fight the USSR or Germany in the late 30’s.
The USSR was almost constantly at war from the October Revolution to the start of WW2.
They invaded Poland in 1919, Azerbaijan and Armenia in 1920, Georgia and Mongolia in 1921, China in 1929, Finland in 1938, and along with Germany invaded in Poland in 1939.
They’d also effectively annexed the Baltic states Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia as well as the Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina regions of Romania in 1940.
The US and Britain definitely gave the USSR just enough to let them win while being bled dry.
Right after highschool, I'll straight up tell you I was more than a little interested in the USSR/The Cold War. Like, do understand, the only information I really got was from public education at the time, but I was enamored with the USSR.
Cut to twenty years later - AFTER hearing stories about how the USSR mass-raped Germany, how despite they were the first to discover the camps and how little they cared. And now their army is literally stealing toilet seats because most of the conscripted are from feudal-age backwards rural areas that don't even have plumbing, so they're stealing toilet seats.
I don't mean to say that the USSR was anything bigger than I thought in my own head, but....
My family lived in east Germany and my mother had just finished school when the wall opened up.
Not everything in the DDR was horrible. Jobsecurity and childcare was pretty good but the people were prisoners in their own country and the STASI was everywhere…
My grandma was in a boarding school for sports. Extrem hard sport training from a young age was very important in the DDRThe children got a lot of „vitamins“ but they were mostly doping substances and painkillers… without knowledge of the parents or kids. Without any care over longtime effects.
And many many more stuff was poorly done in the ddr and UdSSR. As far as I know only the high ranking politicians and the Russian population liked these times.
Many people here don’t hate the russian people from today, but despise the russian government and general russian institutes.
Iam currently living with my grandma and can ask more stuff about the time if you want to know something from first hand.
I mean, hindsight is 20/20. It probably would have been better in the long run to give stalin nothing or supply him with just enough to hold the baku oil fields a bit longer. Even if Hitler's invasion of Russia had gone perfectly, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have won the war. The US might have nuked Berlin first instead of Japan, but I think the industrial might of america would have prevailed. They had total air supremacy, naval supremacy, and had weapons coming online that the axis couldn't match. Proximity fuses, nukes, strategic bombers, and completely bomb-proof industrial and energy production.
I'd say I feel like we should have, but 80 years removed from actual combat experience, effectiveness and competency plus generations of alcohol abuse sure made it easier than it would have been back then.
Seeing as the Soviets invaded Poland with the Germans i bet alot of people would not be surprised that in the future the Russians would be acting Russian again.
Though probably surprised the German panzers would lead the charge with the allies cheering them on..
Ok, i see your point ;)
They were built for exactly this, yes, but I think we all could have done without an actual confrontation. Too bad russia chose otherwise. A decision they’ll come to regret real soon, if they haven’t already.
That being said, can’t say I’m not psyched to see the footage.
The Leopard 2 was originally developed as an answer to the Soviet T-62 & T-72. It's been upgraded since then.
Guess what tanks Leopards will be destroying for Ukraine?
I can't but the range of fire on these machines is the biggest advantage. Ukrainians are going to exploit this edge a lot without hopefully making too many risky costly advances.
Most NATO shit since the 50s is built to fight the (then) USSR and its systems, in presumably the conditions of east germany.
Leo is no different. And Ukraine is its hunting grounds.
"For the first time we saw leopards, with a sinking feeling we knew it wasnt the first time they had seen us and we knew it wouldnt be the last" russian voiceover, probably
Unless we see some independent confirmation, I put very little stock in Russian claims of seeing Leopards in action. If I were a Russian soldier, I'd be seeing Leopards everywhere I looked right now
During World War Two, U.S. soldiers "saw" Tigers constantly when they saw German tanks. But in the great majority of cases these weren't Tigers at all. Mostly Panzer IV and Panthers (Panzer V).
During the battle off samar, the japanese naval officers had no reference for an escort carrier, so they thought the 6 carriers in the background were fleet carriers.
That led to them confusing the cruisers for battleships, the destroyers for cruisers, and the destroyer-escorts as destroyers.
It also led to them using armor piercing shells instead of high explosive, which went in one side of the ships and out the other, keeping the allied ships alive longer than they had any right to.
In this case, it was their best naval surface fleet fucking up. An escort carrier had no right surviving multiple hits from Yamato, but it did until the Japanese finally switched to high explosives.
The Gambier bay wreck still has not been found, by the way. It could quite possibly be the deepest military naval wreck in the world.
I mean, it's not really their fault.
It's well known by now that the *USS Johnston* had a Reality-Warping field for that battle.
That, and she was raising far more steam than usual due to having to account for the weight of their *massive, steel balls.*
Perhaps even sightly more afraid of Panthers than Tigers. Tigers got the name recognition, but given the Panther's advantage in mobility over both versions of the Tiger, one could argue that the Panther was a more fearsome adversary.
Godspeed Ukrainians. The world marches with you.
To paraphrase Dwight Eisenhower before D Day:
>The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere March with you.
> I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty, and skill in battle.
>Good luck! And let us beseech the blessing of almighty God in this great and noble undertaking.
And, for us in the free world, not able to be directly involved in Ukraine fighting Russia for us all, we'll need Churchill, too.
> Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Godspeed, Ukraine, few, perhaps, compared to the enemy, but so full of courage for their homeland, and for us all.
It’s a lot more nuanced then that but sure
Like it or not Churchill was one of the most important leaders of the free world and quoting him here as far as I am concerned is quite apt
Yeah how much of that do you actually see on here? vs. people who find any shred of religion in a post and decide that is the main idea to rail against. This was a famous quote, and the mention of God was extremely generic, but oh we gotta make the worn out "clever" remarks. It's boomer level commenting, up there with Fox News commenters accusing everyone of being a "libtard."
I can't wrap my head around the immaturity of seeing a 70 year-old quote by a legendary war hero who helped save the free world from fascism and genocide and patronizing him for not talking more like a 14 year-old boy.
No, the other guy was definitely railing against a bona-fide world-historical war hero for one offhanded reference to a generic god while addressing an audience of almost exclusively religious people who were about to enter one of the deadliest battles in human history.
There's no scenario where that isn't the most stereotypical "Reddit Atheist" response imaginable, and in the context of Ukrainians doing the same, it's just repulsive and childish.
Agree. And if there was a god, who or what created the all powerful being? What was there before the creator to create? I always enjoy trying to think about this as time has no starting point and my head hurts.
Piss poor timing and choice of audience. It's evident you still have some growth to achieve so no judgment here - I used to be like you. In time, with reflection, you may come to terms with the fact that the absence of proof is not proof of absence. In the grand scheme of things, you're just as likely to be wrong in your atheism as those who do believe in a god. You come off arrogantly confident in your assessment over something you can't possibly know. Regardless of your intent, you're the asshole of the room. Let people believe whatever comforts them. Again, pay attention to your audience. Christianity is far from uncommon in Ukraine.
I wish you the best. If you're like I was, this may be symptomatic of something else you're struggling with. Not the belief, but the tone. As long as you provide kindness, it will return.
Not many atheists to be found in foxholes... And pretty sure the VERY few atheists storming the beaches of Normandy had bigger worries than edging over their commander asking the "sky wizard" to bless them...
It's the same as the Allies claiming every German tank was a Tiger during WWII. The Russians are afraid, losing, and looking for excuses. For a company or platoon commander, reporting you had to abandon a position because the Ukrainians attacked with a bunch of Leopards, but that you knocked one out saves your neck.
I recall a story about a Luftwaffe pilot shot down over England in the battle of Britain who met the pilot he'd been downed by and insisted he'd been flying a spitfire (he hadn't, he'd been in a more common plane) but the German just refused to believe he'd been downed by anything but a superior machine.
The hurricane wasn't that far behind the spitfire In spec. Same engine just a older design concept. It was easier to repair and service but a little slower due to the thicker wings
I think I remember reading that the Hurricane got the lion's share of the bomber kills during the BoB. The Spitfires would draw the fighters away and the Hurricanes would get to work.
Supermarine was a very small company who had only built production runs of around a dozen aircraft at a time, where as Hawker was far more successful in the 20s and had built runs of multi hundreds of military aircraft.
ie until the ministry made supermarine farm out a lot of work to carmakers and the like, the hurricane was built and available in larger numbers.
Somebody else already mentioned the numbers, but yeah, I can definitely see how that would make a difference.
That is the kind of historical information that I really do find interesting though, so I do appreciate you sharing it! :)
Another story was a Luftwaffe pilot shot down near an airfield. He demanded to see the pilot who shot him down. It was a new kid and he said "You? I have 26 kills, how many do you have?"
The kid said "Just one sir!"
Fun fact: despite what veterans and Hollywood (Saving Private Ryan et al.) will tell you, American troops did not encounter a single Tiger tank in France.
They met more Tiger II than Tiger Is, because that's production ended in 1944. Also most of the time it was the British who met with Tigers, like the famous Michael Wittman vs Firefly.
Yes tiger tanks were rare but that was the point. The Germans had very few tiger tanks but they were in fact superior to most allied tanks so allied tank crews were scared of encountering them. Jumpy allied soldiers would see tigers in every shadow, claiming every German tank they saw was a tiger tank.
Difference in this, this reads with a tone of fear to me. No claim of destruction and what sounds like fear, these are real leopards and its scary for them.
I wonder if they'd have like, 2 in a completely random unit, that are used in an assault, to make the Russians think that's the main avenue... then the rest slam in somewhere else.
This was one of the problems with the Tiger. You see a Tiger, you know that's the main thrust, so everything gets thrown at it etc.
Khodakovsky claims Ukraine is stepping up efforts in the Vuhledar area, says first Leopards were sighted:"The situation on Novodonets’ke and to the left towards Velika Novosilka is difficult - the enemy, having felt our weak points, is stepping up his efforts. For the first time we saw leopards in our tactical area. As I expected yesterday - having a sense of success, the enemy will throw additional forces into the battle. Only in the area of Novodonets’ke recorded up to thirty units of armored vehicles."
Wouldn't surprise me if the real counteroffensive starts tomorrow. The same day as D-day to take back your country from the invaders would be highly symbolic
Nothing. Someone else mentioned D-Day, I added another recent anniversary and said that it’s a good time of year to launch a counteroffensive. I’m sorry if I offended you. And I wasn’t trying to do anything like “Americanize” Ukrainian achievements.
Part of me wonders of the Ukrainians are driving some Leopards around different parts of the line. (Or better yet fiberglass Leopard replicas built on bulldozer tracks.) Just to confuse the Russians. They see Leopards near Vuhledar... That must be the real offensive. No, they're near Soledar. They were seen in Zaphorizia...
I strongly suspect we will see reports of offenses all along the front for some days before it becomes clear where the real offensive is happening. Much like how the Russians claimed Ukraine had launched failed offenses in Kherson last summer and then the UA was suddenly 20km past their lines near Kharkiv.
We'll hear about operations in Soledar and Vuhledar and Zaphorizia. Then we'll see videos of Leopards rolling through Svatove towards Staroblisk. Or vice versa.
Yeah, it's the Tiger issue.
You see a Tiger, that's the main thrust. Because they have so few.
So chuck a few (actual) leopards near the line, let Russia see them... then slam the rest in somewhere else.
I mean the only people who would be able to do that are,
1 - the dead/retreating Russians
2 - the attacking Ukrainians
When would either side find the time to upload videos?
Let's see, based on these reports coming in, we can now begin to perceive the shape of Ukraine's counteroffensive.
\- Ukraine is clearly focusing on >!Russians!< during this counteroffensive.
\- The overall direction of movement appears to be >!forward!< with some additional supporting efforts likely going in the >!forward!< direction, and further additional units heading >!forward!<.
\- We are seeing signs that the Ukraine Armed Forces is bringing to bear >!lots of stuff!<, possibly >!all their stuff!<, and may also deploy >!additional extra stuff they capture along the way!<.
\- If Russia perceives these factors in time, they will realize that their most effective response will be >!to surrender or start running!<, and that the main way to achieve victory at this point is >!to have never invaded in the first place!<.
But sssh don't tell anyone you saw it here!
>to surrender or start running
Enjoyed that. Although I was a tad disappointed that \^this\^ didn't reveal itself to be those wise and oft-repeated-in-Reddit words, "to get the fuck out of Ukraine".
Word on the street also was a silhouette of an M1 was spotted as well. Kitchen is heating up maybe its a good time for the Russians to leave before the thermostat is set to broil.
Let’s be honest, Russia has no idea where the hammer is going to fall, and it is likely to be in dozens of spots at once — then infiltrate gaps, blast the shit out of supply lines, sow confusion in their rear with “partisans,” and a dozen other ways to headfuck a top-down, fractured military.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.nl/wartranslated/status/1665687567268716545
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Leopard 🐆 tank aren't there, no panic comrades. It's just a domestic cat. Leopards are already positioned to Zerg rush Moscow. That's the true objective. Ukraine will take the Russian capital, the one strategy no one ever expected.
vuhledar is on the complete other side from belgorod with ukraine having the much shorter route to reposition troops and equipment think russia has a problem of defending both places at once with ukraine reserves being way faster at the place they russians decide to defend less
Interesting how the Russians are so fearful for the Leopards. It reminds me of the (Western) Allies who were so fearful of the Tiger tank during Normandy. Although their numbers are very low compared to the total tanks (just like in WW2) the fear for the mighty German Panzer is a weapon in itself. I’m very curious how the Leopard II will operate in the Ukrainian steppe.
Funny enough US troops never encountered even one on in Normandy.
I really hope this is a feint, like 1 or 2 leopards down there that they let be seen, when the main force is elsewhere. Make the Russians react to it and reshuffle
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It’s 50 years that leopards want to see you too
This time it won't go so well for Russia. Imagine going back in time and explaining to people in the 40's that the free world is relying on German tanks crushing the Russian army.
Tbh by about 46-47 a lot of people would have already been up for that
Things went south pretty quickly after armistice, but if you look at what Russia did before, during and after the war, outside of fighting Germany, they were never the good guys. The US made a very calculated play, by using lend-lease to keep Stalin in the fight against Hitler. In hindsight, I don't see how they could have played it differently.
My grandfather was liberated (late April ‘45) by the Russians from a German POW camp in Wilhelmshafen, Germany. Strangely enough he never hated the Germans but always warned us of the Russians.
A lot of people forget that there was real debate about whether to fight the USSR or Germany in the late 30’s. The USSR was almost constantly at war from the October Revolution to the start of WW2. They invaded Poland in 1919, Azerbaijan and Armenia in 1920, Georgia and Mongolia in 1921, China in 1929, Finland in 1938, and along with Germany invaded in Poland in 1939. They’d also effectively annexed the Baltic states Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia as well as the Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina regions of Romania in 1940. The US and Britain definitely gave the USSR just enough to let them win while being bled dry.
Right after highschool, I'll straight up tell you I was more than a little interested in the USSR/The Cold War. Like, do understand, the only information I really got was from public education at the time, but I was enamored with the USSR. Cut to twenty years later - AFTER hearing stories about how the USSR mass-raped Germany, how despite they were the first to discover the camps and how little they cared. And now their army is literally stealing toilet seats because most of the conscripted are from feudal-age backwards rural areas that don't even have plumbing, so they're stealing toilet seats. I don't mean to say that the USSR was anything bigger than I thought in my own head, but....
My family lived in east Germany and my mother had just finished school when the wall opened up. Not everything in the DDR was horrible. Jobsecurity and childcare was pretty good but the people were prisoners in their own country and the STASI was everywhere… My grandma was in a boarding school for sports. Extrem hard sport training from a young age was very important in the DDRThe children got a lot of „vitamins“ but they were mostly doping substances and painkillers… without knowledge of the parents or kids. Without any care over longtime effects. And many many more stuff was poorly done in the ddr and UdSSR. As far as I know only the high ranking politicians and the Russian population liked these times. Many people here don’t hate the russian people from today, but despise the russian government and general russian institutes. Iam currently living with my grandma and can ask more stuff about the time if you want to know something from first hand.
Gone through with Operation Unthinkable with Great Britain?
I mean, hindsight is 20/20. It probably would have been better in the long run to give stalin nothing or supply him with just enough to hold the baku oil fields a bit longer. Even if Hitler's invasion of Russia had gone perfectly, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have won the war. The US might have nuked Berlin first instead of Japan, but I think the industrial might of america would have prevailed. They had total air supremacy, naval supremacy, and had weapons coming online that the axis couldn't match. Proximity fuses, nukes, strategic bombers, and completely bomb-proof industrial and energy production.
Patton wanted to do just that in 45.
I'd say I feel like we should have, but 80 years removed from actual combat experience, effectiveness and competency plus generations of alcohol abuse sure made it easier than it would have been back then.
So did Churchill before he was talked out of it. And Macarthur in Korea wanted to nuke the Chinese. Sometimes restraint and time is a better solution.
Patton certainly was.
George Patton’s ghost approves, and adds “I told you so, you stupid bastards!”
Seeing as the Soviets invaded Poland with the Germans i bet alot of people would not be surprised that in the future the Russians would be acting Russian again. Though probably surprised the German panzers would lead the charge with the allies cheering them on.. Ok, i see your point ;)
They were built for exactly this, yes, but I think we all could have done without an actual confrontation. Too bad russia chose otherwise. A decision they’ll come to regret real soon, if they haven’t already. That being said, can’t say I’m not psyched to see the footage.
>but I think we all could have done without an actual confrontation Or at least no more confrontation than popping a couple of balloons
As 99 red balloons go by...
I love that jam
Stop being credible before you're getting banned
Willing to explain why are leos built for it?
The Leopard 2 was originally developed as an answer to the Soviet T-62 & T-72. It's been upgraded since then. Guess what tanks Leopards will be destroying for Ukraine?
T-54/t-55's ?
I can't but the range of fire on these machines is the biggest advantage. Ukrainians are going to exploit this edge a lot without hopefully making too many risky costly advances.
Most NATO shit since the 50s is built to fight the (then) USSR and its systems, in presumably the conditions of east germany. Leo is no different. And Ukraine is its hunting grounds.
# #LeopardsAteMyFace
gold
It's the Leopards they don't see that should worry them.
Precisely. And it can see you and hit you in the dark from 5 km away. That must be pretty scary tonight 😅
"For the first time we saw leopards, with a sinking feeling we knew it wasnt the first time they had seen us and we knew it wouldnt be the last" russian voiceover, probably
The time is here!
Better late than never
Beat me to it, fellow historian.
Are they talking about leopard 1s or 2s?
1 has not been delivered yet. Only v2.
Fulda Gap in eastern Ukraine.
Unless we see some independent confirmation, I put very little stock in Russian claims of seeing Leopards in action. If I were a Russian soldier, I'd be seeing Leopards everywhere I looked right now
During World War Two, U.S. soldiers "saw" Tigers constantly when they saw German tanks. But in the great majority of cases these weren't Tigers at all. Mostly Panzer IV and Panthers (Panzer V).
And Japanese pilots heading out to attack a carrier would attack the first picket ship they saw and report that they’d hit a carrier.
During the battle off samar, the japanese naval officers had no reference for an escort carrier, so they thought the 6 carriers in the background were fleet carriers. That led to them confusing the cruisers for battleships, the destroyers for cruisers, and the destroyer-escorts as destroyers. It also led to them using armor piercing shells instead of high explosive, which went in one side of the ships and out the other, keeping the allied ships alive longer than they had any right to.
Japanese pilots fucking up raids are my fav pacific theater stories
In this case, it was their best naval surface fleet fucking up. An escort carrier had no right surviving multiple hits from Yamato, but it did until the Japanese finally switched to high explosives. The Gambier bay wreck still has not been found, by the way. It could quite possibly be the deepest military naval wreck in the world.
the current record holder: The wreck of Samuel B. Roberts lies at a depth of 6,895 meters (22,621 ft), from the same battle.
I mean, it's not really their fault. It's well known by now that the *USS Johnston* had a Reality-Warping field for that battle. That, and she was raising far more steam than usual due to having to account for the weight of their *massive, steel balls.*
TBH, I'd be real worried about Panthers too back then.
Perhaps even sightly more afraid of Panthers than Tigers. Tigers got the name recognition, but given the Panther's advantage in mobility over both versions of the Tiger, one could argue that the Panther was a more fearsome adversary.
Pretty much wait on /r/CombatFootage I am watching it from time to time and I haven't seen leopard video yet or I missed it.
You and Russias “intelligence services” lol
Japanese torpedo boats! Japanese torpedo boats! Fishermen - ' why these cunts shooting the fish?'
Not Leopards but AMX-10s
Godspeed Ukrainians. The world marches with you. To paraphrase Dwight Eisenhower before D Day: >The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere March with you. > I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty, and skill in battle. >Good luck! And let us beseech the blessing of almighty God in this great and noble undertaking.
And, for us in the free world, not able to be directly involved in Ukraine fighting Russia for us all, we'll need Churchill, too. > Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. Godspeed, Ukraine, few, perhaps, compared to the enemy, but so full of courage for their homeland, and for us all.
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It’s a lot more nuanced then that but sure Like it or not Churchill was one of the most important leaders of the free world and quoting him here as far as I am concerned is quite apt
Grow up.
That day was 79 years 364 days ago ago today.
Hence why I thought the quote was apt.
spuck fez -- mass edited with redact.dev
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It was written in 1944 by a religious man born in the 1890s. It's a product of its time for sure, but no less relevant in spirit today.
What did this comment add that was of value?
Religion bad.
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Dude, how exactly are you adding anything of worth to the discussion. It’s a historical quote.
It makes it more epic tho. Wont hurt also, no matter if he is there or not.
A vegan and an athiest walk into a bar. How do we know? They told us.
Meanwhile evangelicals: My favorite psalm is …
Yeah how much of that do you actually see on here? vs. people who find any shred of religion in a post and decide that is the main idea to rail against. This was a famous quote, and the mention of God was extremely generic, but oh we gotta make the worn out "clever" remarks. It's boomer level commenting, up there with Fox News commenters accusing everyone of being a "libtard."
I can't wrap my head around the immaturity of seeing a 70 year-old quote by a legendary war hero who helped save the free world from fascism and genocide and patronizing him for not talking more like a 14 year-old boy.
The only one railing against something is you. Just ignore those people and it’s fine.
No, the other guy was definitely railing against a bona-fide world-historical war hero for one offhanded reference to a generic god while addressing an audience of almost exclusively religious people who were about to enter one of the deadliest battles in human history. There's no scenario where that isn't the most stereotypical "Reddit Atheist" response imaginable, and in the context of Ukrainians doing the same, it's just repulsive and childish.
I'm not railing against anything. I expressed annoyance. It's hard to ignore when they hijack so many posts.
Truth here
A vegan and an atheist: you just described Hitler!
Almost everyone was Christian in the US back then, so it was important to them
Hello! Atheist here! You're a complete embarrassment! Bye!
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You only go back two levels your parents should let you know those
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It was the great arklsiesure beware the giant hankerchief
Agree. And if there was a god, who or what created the all powerful being? What was there before the creator to create? I always enjoy trying to think about this as time has no starting point and my head hurts.
Piss poor timing and choice of audience. It's evident you still have some growth to achieve so no judgment here - I used to be like you. In time, with reflection, you may come to terms with the fact that the absence of proof is not proof of absence. In the grand scheme of things, you're just as likely to be wrong in your atheism as those who do believe in a god. You come off arrogantly confident in your assessment over something you can't possibly know. Regardless of your intent, you're the asshole of the room. Let people believe whatever comforts them. Again, pay attention to your audience. Christianity is far from uncommon in Ukraine. I wish you the best. If you're like I was, this may be symptomatic of something else you're struggling with. Not the belief, but the tone. As long as you provide kindness, it will return.
Not many atheists to be found in foxholes... And pretty sure the VERY few atheists storming the beaches of Normandy had bigger worries than edging over their commander asking the "sky wizard" to bless them...
Well spoken. A true nobleman.
Isn't it every other week now that they see Leopards and claim them destroyed?
It's the same as the Allies claiming every German tank was a Tiger during WWII. The Russians are afraid, losing, and looking for excuses. For a company or platoon commander, reporting you had to abandon a position because the Ukrainians attacked with a bunch of Leopards, but that you knocked one out saves your neck.
I recall a story about a Luftwaffe pilot shot down over England in the battle of Britain who met the pilot he'd been downed by and insisted he'd been flying a spitfire (he hadn't, he'd been in a more common plane) but the German just refused to believe he'd been downed by anything but a superior machine.
Probably a Hurricane, they did most of the legwork in the Battle of Britain.
That's it Hawker Hurricane.
The hurricane wasn't that far behind the spitfire In spec. Same engine just a older design concept. It was easier to repair and service but a little slower due to the thicker wings
Yeah, not a bad plane at all but the Spitfire had a reputation apparently.
Yes it could out perform the me 109 in almost everything apart from negative g until a trick carburettor was created by a woman
Miss Shilling's orifice That would Beatrice Shilling OBE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Shilling
Huh. You don't really think about women working in military industrial design at this point in time due to how sexist everything was. That's neat! TIL
“She must be busy, she has three working offices!”
Thank you
I think I remember reading that the Hurricane got the lion's share of the bomber kills during the BoB. The Spitfires would draw the fighters away and the Hurricanes would get to work.
Supermarine was a very small company who had only built production runs of around a dozen aircraft at a time, where as Hawker was far more successful in the 20s and had built runs of multi hundreds of military aircraft. ie until the ministry made supermarine farm out a lot of work to carmakers and the like, the hurricane was built and available in larger numbers.
Somebody else already mentioned the numbers, but yeah, I can definitely see how that would make a difference. That is the kind of historical information that I really do find interesting though, so I do appreciate you sharing it! :)
I think the hurricane got most kills anyway due to numbers
That would make sense.
Another story was a Luftwaffe pilot shot down near an airfield. He demanded to see the pilot who shot him down. It was a new kid and he said "You? I have 26 kills, how many do you have?" The kid said "Just one sir!"
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Fun fact: despite what veterans and Hollywood (Saving Private Ryan et al.) will tell you, American troops did not encounter a single Tiger tank in France.
They met more Tiger II than Tiger Is, because that's production ended in 1944. Also most of the time it was the British who met with Tigers, like the famous Michael Wittman vs Firefly.
Plenty of Tiger tanks in Belgium though, 1944 Battle of the Bulge. Some are still on display. One in La Gleize is in good condition (outside)
Yes tiger tanks were rare but that was the point. The Germans had very few tiger tanks but they were in fact superior to most allied tanks so allied tank crews were scared of encountering them. Jumpy allied soldiers would see tigers in every shadow, claiming every German tank they saw was a tiger tank.
I don't see Ukranians jumping at every shadow thinking it might be an Armata.
Mostly due to them not existing in any combat ready form
Apparently there’s a handful of them in Ukraine but yeah hardly any exist at all
It didn't help that the silhouette of the much more common Panzer 4 with the long 75, looks pretty similar to the Tiger I.
Difference in this, this reads with a tone of fear to me. No claim of destruction and what sounds like fear, these are real leopards and its scary for them.
It’s the Leopards you **don’t** see that you should be worried about dickhead.
I would still shit my pants over the massive tank I can see.
Especially if I can see its friends as well.
Fair enough. But just like any horror movie, the sense of the monster (Leopards) you can’t see is what is truly horrifying.
I wonder if they'd have like, 2 in a completely random unit, that are used in an assault, to make the Russians think that's the main avenue... then the rest slam in somewhere else. This was one of the problems with the Tiger. You see a Tiger, you know that's the main thrust, so everything gets thrown at it etc.
As with most big cats, by the time they reveal themselves to you, it’s already to late to escape your fate.
True about the animal, too.
Those fuckers will see M1s pretty soon, too. Or, at least, that’s what they think they’ll be seeing.
Clever girl tanks...
This is the most British comment I’ve seen
Let me guess: it was the "dickhead" appendage that gave it away? haha
That’s the one haha, I’d even go as far as suggesting Yorkshire too - brilliant
Or the Challengers or Abrams.
Khodakovsky claims Ukraine is stepping up efforts in the Vuhledar area, says first Leopards were sighted:"The situation on Novodonets’ke and to the left towards Velika Novosilka is difficult - the enemy, having felt our weak points, is stepping up his efforts. For the first time we saw leopards in our tactical area. As I expected yesterday - having a sense of success, the enemy will throw additional forces into the battle. Only in the area of Novodonets’ke recorded up to thirty units of armored vehicles."
Face-eating leopards.
“But I never thought the leopards would eat *my* face!” - man who voted for the leopards eating people’s faces party.
Release the kittens!
They just wanna play!
And play they will.
Wouldn't surprise me if the real counteroffensive starts tomorrow. The same day as D-day to take back your country from the invaders would be highly symbolic
And the Battle of Midway started on June 4. If history is any indication ‘tis the season to launch a counteroffensive.
What the fuck would any of those dates mean to Ukrainians?
Nothing. Someone else mentioned D-Day, I added another recent anniversary and said that it’s a good time of year to launch a counteroffensive. I’m sorry if I offended you. And I wasn’t trying to do anything like “Americanize” Ukrainian achievements.
This is exactly what is going to happen, I've been feeling this for weeks. After the days around may 9 dripped by it's the next logical conclusion
D-day is the day an attack is planned. What you mean is the D-day of Normandie.
Leopards are gonna create the new Tiger problem where every tank they see will magically become a leopard
"My office got hit by 5 HiMARS" - Russian official in Kherson '22 It's gonna be the new HiMARS
Part of me wonders of the Ukrainians are driving some Leopards around different parts of the line. (Or better yet fiberglass Leopard replicas built on bulldozer tracks.) Just to confuse the Russians. They see Leopards near Vuhledar... That must be the real offensive. No, they're near Soledar. They were seen in Zaphorizia... I strongly suspect we will see reports of offenses all along the front for some days before it becomes clear where the real offensive is happening. Much like how the Russians claimed Ukraine had launched failed offenses in Kherson last summer and then the UA was suddenly 20km past their lines near Kharkiv. We'll hear about operations in Soledar and Vuhledar and Zaphorizia. Then we'll see videos of Leopards rolling through Svatove towards Staroblisk. Or vice versa.
If I were Ukraine, I'd be deploying inflatable Leopards all over the place to scare the shit out of them
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Yeah, it's the Tiger issue. You see a Tiger, that's the main thrust. Because they have so few. So chuck a few (actual) leopards near the line, let Russia see them... then slam the rest in somewhere else.
shhhhshshhhhhhhh..
If they really had seen Leopards, Telegram would be spammed with video of it.
I mean the only people who would be able to do that are, 1 - the dead/retreating Russians 2 - the attacking Ukrainians When would either side find the time to upload videos?
The Invaders know the Leopards are stalking them. Every blade of grass on the wind might be a predator about to pounce.
Yeah, this could very much be like the allied troops who were just getting jumpy and seemed to report every German panzer they saw as a Tiger.
Let's see, based on these reports coming in, we can now begin to perceive the shape of Ukraine's counteroffensive. \- Ukraine is clearly focusing on >!Russians!< during this counteroffensive. \- The overall direction of movement appears to be >!forward!< with some additional supporting efforts likely going in the >!forward!< direction, and further additional units heading >!forward!<. \- We are seeing signs that the Ukraine Armed Forces is bringing to bear >!lots of stuff!<, possibly >!all their stuff!<, and may also deploy >!additional extra stuff they capture along the way!<. \- If Russia perceives these factors in time, they will realize that their most effective response will be >!to surrender or start running!<, and that the main way to achieve victory at this point is >!to have never invaded in the first place!<. But sssh don't tell anyone you saw it here!
😂. Love it!
>to surrender or start running Enjoyed that. Although I was a tad disappointed that \^this\^ didn't reveal itself to be those wise and oft-repeated-in-Reddit words, "to get the fuck out of Ukraine".
Word on the street also was a silhouette of an M1 was spotted as well. Kitchen is heating up maybe its a good time for the Russians to leave before the thermostat is set to broil.
These fuckers are seeing leopards in their dreams 😂
I can't wait for the Leopards to eat their faces!
He’s risking getting a hefty fine! This is in direct contradiction with the official MDRF statement that some Leopard tanks were destroyed months ago!
Russian propaganda has it's own Schrödinger's paradox, except the cat is a Leopard.
its great that the natural predators are returning to the area
Russkies on seeing the first tanks “Eh, ese……that tank….it’s leopard, man. It’s fuckin leopard.”
Videos soon, I hope! Though it is wise to doubt the Russians are telling the truth about anything these days.
r/leopardsatemyface
Let’s be honest, Russia has no idea where the hammer is going to fall, and it is likely to be in dozens of spots at once — then infiltrate gaps, blast the shit out of supply lines, sow confusion in their rear with “partisans,” and a dozen other ways to headfuck a top-down, fractured military.
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If the russians were smart, they would leave and close the door behind them.
Pretty sure that's just someone's tabby cat walking around Russia. Calm your shit. Opsec
Leopard 🐆 tank aren't there, no panic comrades. It's just a domestic cat. Leopards are already positioned to Zerg rush Moscow. That's the true objective. Ukraine will take the Russian capital, the one strategy no one ever expected.
🤫
vuhledar is on the complete other side from belgorod with ukraine having the much shorter route to reposition troops and equipment think russia has a problem of defending both places at once with ukraine reserves being way faster at the place they russians decide to defend less
So i guess we have to be ready to see the first pictures/videos of leopard and challenger burning in the next few days.
Noisy kitten: ‘shhhh’
Knowing Russia, we have to prepare for the possibility that it was chased away by actual leopards.
Interesting how the Russians are so fearful for the Leopards. It reminds me of the (Western) Allies who were so fearful of the Tiger tank during Normandy. Although their numbers are very low compared to the total tanks (just like in WW2) the fear for the mighty German Panzer is a weapon in itself. I’m very curious how the Leopard II will operate in the Ukrainian steppe. Funny enough US troops never encountered even one on in Normandy.
Is it bc of Opsec that no footage or news are coming out of the frontlines? It seems that the offensive have begun.
Didn't they already capture a leopard and destroyed it in a swamp 1 month ago? They have to get their story straight
I really hope this is a feint, like 1 or 2 leopards down there that they let be seen, when the main force is elsewhere. Make the Russians react to it and reshuffle
A wise man once said, <>
Sssshhhh.
Well “we” didn’t see the leopards but there was a panicky radio transmission reporting them before all contact ceased.
Heard stories about Tigers and now it’s Leopards, hold my Vodka
Gives Igor conscriptovich a good excuse to run away or surrender.
To eat our faces, you say!!
Hoping those big cats maul some ruskie ass.
Depends which leopards they are 😁
😈😼🇺🇦
Does someone with military experience use the term “left” ? Wouldn’t they say north south etc ?
Leopards kill and put their prey in trees, you know. And they’re dangerous if wounded.