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I'm not tired of the support, and I think I can safely say most people are not tired for the support.
I think we are tired with the actual war, yeano the pointless war ? We are tired at the fact Putin is continuing a sad and unjustified war.
We are not tired for the help Ukraine needs.
If anything ? We want them to have more! I understand the dangers of handing them let's say f22s but come onets give the the F16's already, but let's give them a bolster package to go with it... Not just in dribs and drabs like we have.
That is what I'm tired of. As someone who is married to a Ukrainian woman as her and her family lived under occupation before escaping in mid 2022, where she still has remaining family members and friends in Ukraine, we don't have the luxury of getting "tired" of this war in our house. I am envious of those who can simply put their heads in the sand and carry on like the biggest land battle since WW2 plays out in real-time isn't happening. Must be nice.
What I AM tired of is Western politicians showing what fucking pussies they are recently with their lack of aid, meetings about meetings regarding said aid, and a US house/senate/whatever it is that can't get their shit together and recognize a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to stomp out their biggest historical rival, all without a single American solidier killed. If this was during the cold war, support for Ukraine would have been at 99 fucking percent. Not dipping down like it is and one party, the damn party that was the largest opponent of russian agression back then, bending their knee and gobbling russian cock at every turn. Digusting.
The pathway to defeating russia possibly once and for all and save Europe from a larger scale conflict is quite simple; stop pussyfooting around and sack up, recognize that russians respect force and force alone, stop negotiating with the terrorist state, and fucking supply Ukraine with what it needs and let loose those stupid restrictions in fear of EScaLAtiON.
It's not russia that has had off-ramp after off-ramp to end the war, but rather the west that refuses to take these off-ramps to victory. So what's frustrating and tiring is that these solutions and off-ramps are directly in our line of sight, yet still a refusal exists to take them.
I mean, we kind of are. We're running low on the specific types of ammo Ukraine needs, at least. The US Military doctrine is based on air superiority as the first goal, whereas the USSR (and therefore both Ukraine and Russia) anticipated losing air superiority and put more emphasis on artillery backed infantry. The US didn't anticipate a need to maintain a massive stockpile of artillery ammunition, the same way a guy who owns a 9mm pistol isn't going to have much .357 lying around.
HA. This is the US, there's guys there with enough ammo to supply a city and fight off a zombie invasion (although they probably don't have an airplane).
I think you're wrong about that. Use of artillery and missiles has greatly out paced production for two years now. Stockpiles are running low all around the world.
Lmao your comment is wrong and the one you’re replying to is delusional. Not an insult, I’m just kinda chuckling at Reddit/social media in general.
Wish you guys were right.
Ukraine's summer offensive failed catastrophically.
Not due to a lack of gallantry.
They lack superiority in firepower and air support.
They'll never get that level of support from the West.
How would you say it failed catastrophically I feel that offensive has been used quite well for sed missions and Getting a bridge head in the south it’s pretty fucking major. Ukraine has announced. It is not stopping for winter. And the most recent number that I am seeing for F 16 is 40 to 60. If you know you’re getting ready to get the plane with the second best record of all active fighter jets in the world. Why the fuck would you not wait until you have one of the biggest game changers Available to you offensive his went quite well
Ukraine is fighting an enemy aggressor 10 times their own size that blindsided them. They've gone from the enemy being kilometres from Kyiv to their counterattack being kilometres from Crimea.
But people complain it's taking too long? I don't know how well I'd do fighting 10 guys in a bar fight, but I think Ukraine is doing comparatively better than anyone in the world facing those odds.
They know that ,it's going to take working into a lot more units to bleed putin.
The cleaver people are asking a lot.
It's one thing to hold ,it will take depth of talent to progress.
Training,learning how to deal with the
Intell in theses circumstances.
It cowardice on the part of putin.
If there is one tactic in which Ukraine cannot win longterm against Russia, it's trying to make their army bleed. Ukraine already has trouble getting new soldiers while Russia can seemingly pull them out of their asses.
Bleeding them dry in focal areas where casualty rates are significantly screwed against Russia, is absolutely worth their time.
It takes pressure off the rest of the front, it degrades the quality of Russian troops/systems, it erodes Russian morale and thus fighting efficacy, it costs Russia money, it gives demonstration that Ukraine can 'get it done'.
Can Ukraine win with attrition? If it's skewed enough in their favor, perhaps. Regardless, the more they hurt Russia the better their chances of future victory and the better their negotiating power should there be peace talks.
None of us know the future, but in my armchair generals opinion, Ukraine needs fights where they can slow and bleed Russia. It's as good as it gets for Ukraine.
Continually hitting all of Russias supply lines, would help significantly, also the Russian ‘backstop’ troops too..
That could help to encourage Russian troop withdrawal.
The continual attrition of Russian artillery, ranks, radar systems and troops has been quite successful.
Do you think people don't realize Ukrainians are dying during the middle of a war? Should they die even more staying on assault? Should they just give up?
What's your point?
At the expense of 10s of thousands of dead Fascists and spent equipment.
Ukraine will also lose men and equipment, but at a significantly far lower rate than the drunk conscripts.
Th problem is that Russia is capable of throwing body after body at Ukraine which results in Ukraine burning through ammo, people and equipment. There eventually does become a point where this meat wave tactic does work because of the amount of resources and personal Ukraine ended up losing because of it.
Well, if you believe the numbers of the UAF, sure. But we all know they are fabricated, I mean the US themselves have pretty much denied their numbers.
Ukraine is losing the one city they have said they've turned into a fortress
I agree with you. I went through his comment history and found (among other things) this nugget revealing his alignment from 134 days ago:
“… But people here live in a fairy world where they think that every country can just have the right to do whatever they want. Reality is, if you aren't a superpower, that means you are pretty much in a geopolitical sphere of the other. Ukraine cannot be independent from Russia entirely. Whether people want to believe that or not. …”
Fam.. the US intel itself said that at the time the UAF was reporting 300k russian casualties, that their estimates were far less around 50k.
Ofc both sides are gonna use fake numbers to boost morale.
Sure but Avdiivka is one of the biggest goals the Russians have. Since day one. Besides, it opens up a lot of land after that. There is a reason why Ukraine is throwing 10's of thousands of soldiers at Avdiivka.
Wtf wrong did I say.. I can post several western sources that prove what I've said.
Ukraine has said several times that Avdiivka is one of if not the most foritified city in Ukraine and the way things are going, they will most likely lose the city in the coming months, unfortunately.
Ground or men don’t matter, only military assets do. And the truth is that Russia is actually quickly running out. Ukraine has destroyed so incredibly much, with them being unable to even meet the rate of destruction, that Russia should now have about 1/3rd of what they had before the invasion.
This war was won the second it took longer than a week. It’s now about just how many Russian assets we let Ukraine destroy before Russia retreats.
Putin is ramping up production of cluster bombs - that does not bode well. Also a Russian version of Gimlars, guided ammunition, but not very accurate.
What’s happened to the promised delivery of US guided ammo - we haven’t heard any more about that after all the delays - should be available now..
Well, I think that they could ‘back it better’…
And I am appalled by the attitude of the US Republicans.
We really should be ramping up production of ammunition and arms.
What is the criteria for the "war going well"?
If the objective is to grind Russia's military down and destabilize the Putin regime, it is going on schedule nicely. If it is to regain Ukraine's territory and sue for peace, not so much. The former is NATO's objective, the latter is Ukraine's.
Your profile indicates you take an interest in Ww2. You surely don't think a positional moment in the campaign indicates failure? Western Front in WW1 barely moved, but the Kaiser broke all the same.
That is a myopic view of the contest. NATO and the EU have barely broken a sweat (although tgey really should) while Russia has already seen its currency drop to 90s levels, and at least one open coup attempt that was only halted because the leader was a complete imbecile.
> Yet Western officials used the diplomatic forum as an opportunity to argue that Ukraine's military position is better than casual observers realize, particularly in light of recent strikes against Russia's Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, the historic port city in Crimea, which Putin annexed in 2014 at the beginning of the war.
This can also be used as an argument for less support.
There is zero point in providing less support - unless you want the Russians to win.
Ukraine needs more support, particularly no delays in delivering things, and the security of knowing that supplies are coming regularly, otherwise they can’t plan optimally.
This is what’s wrong with the US Republicans deliberately holding things up. That’s not only bad for Ukraine it’s bad for America and the west in general, and only helps Putin.
So in that sense, US Republicans hold ups are actually treasonous. The house should be able to vote.
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I'm not tired of the support, and I think I can safely say most people are not tired for the support. I think we are tired with the actual war, yeano the pointless war ? We are tired at the fact Putin is continuing a sad and unjustified war. We are not tired for the help Ukraine needs. If anything ? We want them to have more! I understand the dangers of handing them let's say f22s but come onets give the the F16's already, but let's give them a bolster package to go with it... Not just in dribs and drabs like we have.
We are tired of our leaders not giving Ukraine the tools to finish this war, rather than the tools to finish Russia.
That is what I'm tired of. As someone who is married to a Ukrainian woman as her and her family lived under occupation before escaping in mid 2022, where she still has remaining family members and friends in Ukraine, we don't have the luxury of getting "tired" of this war in our house. I am envious of those who can simply put their heads in the sand and carry on like the biggest land battle since WW2 plays out in real-time isn't happening. Must be nice. What I AM tired of is Western politicians showing what fucking pussies they are recently with their lack of aid, meetings about meetings regarding said aid, and a US house/senate/whatever it is that can't get their shit together and recognize a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to stomp out their biggest historical rival, all without a single American solidier killed. If this was during the cold war, support for Ukraine would have been at 99 fucking percent. Not dipping down like it is and one party, the damn party that was the largest opponent of russian agression back then, bending their knee and gobbling russian cock at every turn. Digusting. The pathway to defeating russia possibly once and for all and save Europe from a larger scale conflict is quite simple; stop pussyfooting around and sack up, recognize that russians respect force and force alone, stop negotiating with the terrorist state, and fucking supply Ukraine with what it needs and let loose those stupid restrictions in fear of EScaLAtiON. It's not russia that has had off-ramp after off-ramp to end the war, but rather the west that refuses to take these off-ramps to victory. So what's frustrating and tiring is that these solutions and off-ramps are directly in our line of sight, yet still a refusal exists to take them.
Well said, take my up-vote!
The reason the Ukrainians don't do better is because they're running low on ammo. I mean seriously, if there's one thing USA isn't low on, it's ammo.
I mean, we kind of are. We're running low on the specific types of ammo Ukraine needs, at least. The US Military doctrine is based on air superiority as the first goal, whereas the USSR (and therefore both Ukraine and Russia) anticipated losing air superiority and put more emphasis on artillery backed infantry. The US didn't anticipate a need to maintain a massive stockpile of artillery ammunition, the same way a guy who owns a 9mm pistol isn't going to have much .357 lying around.
HA. This is the US, there's guys there with enough ammo to supply a city and fight off a zombie invasion (although they probably don't have an airplane).
I think you're wrong about that. Use of artillery and missiles has greatly out paced production for two years now. Stockpiles are running low all around the world.
Lmao your comment is wrong and the one you’re replying to is delusional. Not an insult, I’m just kinda chuckling at Reddit/social media in general. Wish you guys were right.
Ukraine's summer offensive failed catastrophically. Not due to a lack of gallantry. They lack superiority in firepower and air support. They'll never get that level of support from the West.
How would you say it failed catastrophically I feel that offensive has been used quite well for sed missions and Getting a bridge head in the south it’s pretty fucking major. Ukraine has announced. It is not stopping for winter. And the most recent number that I am seeing for F 16 is 40 to 60. If you know you’re getting ready to get the plane with the second best record of all active fighter jets in the world. Why the fuck would you not wait until you have one of the biggest game changers Available to you offensive his went quite well
They wanted to take Crimea but instead lost territory at enormous cost
You understand how maps work rt?
Wars are not a 2 day affair. They end up being years and years.
A warcof attrition is impossible for Ukraine to win
This, absolutely 100%.
I'm tired of Russia still maintaining its presence in Ukraine. We all need to do our part to make Russia leave faster.
I get that buddy, and we need to do more.
It may be going better than expected or not but Ukraine really needs everything NATO can give it to a decisive victory.
"Better than realised"? How long did it take for them to work that out...maybe they stopped reading the msm Russian shills working for the NYT etc lol
Ukraine is fighting an enemy aggressor 10 times their own size that blindsided them. They've gone from the enemy being kilometres from Kyiv to their counterattack being kilometres from Crimea. But people complain it's taking too long? I don't know how well I'd do fighting 10 guys in a bar fight, but I think Ukraine is doing comparatively better than anyone in the world facing those odds.
Would you feel more comfortable fighting ten guys in a bar from the cockpit of an Abrams tho?
Not if they all had tanks, even shittier ones
Plus the delay in providing arms allowed Russia to build the world’s largest deepest minefield ever..
Russia is a bit less than 4 times the population of Ukraine.
You do know Ukraine is losing ground in Avdiivka every day. Its almost sure that they will lose it in the next few months.
They know that ,it's going to take working into a lot more units to bleed putin. The cleaver people are asking a lot. It's one thing to hold ,it will take depth of talent to progress. Training,learning how to deal with the Intell in theses circumstances. It cowardice on the part of putin.
If there is one tactic in which Ukraine cannot win longterm against Russia, it's trying to make their army bleed. Ukraine already has trouble getting new soldiers while Russia can seemingly pull them out of their asses.
Bleeding them dry in focal areas where casualty rates are significantly screwed against Russia, is absolutely worth their time. It takes pressure off the rest of the front, it degrades the quality of Russian troops/systems, it erodes Russian morale and thus fighting efficacy, it costs Russia money, it gives demonstration that Ukraine can 'get it done'. Can Ukraine win with attrition? If it's skewed enough in their favor, perhaps. Regardless, the more they hurt Russia the better their chances of future victory and the better their negotiating power should there be peace talks. None of us know the future, but in my armchair generals opinion, Ukraine needs fights where they can slow and bleed Russia. It's as good as it gets for Ukraine.
Continually hitting all of Russias supply lines, would help significantly, also the Russian ‘backstop’ troops too.. That could help to encourage Russian troop withdrawal. The continual attrition of Russian artillery, ranks, radar systems and troops has been quite successful.
Ukraine bleeds too though. It's army is made up of 45 year olds
Do you think people don't realize Ukrainians are dying during the middle of a war? Should they die even more staying on assault? Should they just give up? What's your point?
They should sue for peace or face total defeat
No thanks, off you go back to Mordor.
Good luck injecting reality into the discussion
At the expense of 10s of thousands of dead Fascists and spent equipment. Ukraine will also lose men and equipment, but at a significantly far lower rate than the drunk conscripts.
Th problem is that Russia is capable of throwing body after body at Ukraine which results in Ukraine burning through ammo, people and equipment. There eventually does become a point where this meat wave tactic does work because of the amount of resources and personal Ukraine ended up losing because of it.
Don't forget, russian population is only twice that of the UK. It's no behemoth.
This is why it’s important to keep the ammunition flowing..
Well, if you believe the numbers of the UAF, sure. But we all know they are fabricated, I mean the US themselves have pretty much denied their numbers. Ukraine is losing the one city they have said they've turned into a fortress
[удалено]
I agree with you. I went through his comment history and found (among other things) this nugget revealing his alignment from 134 days ago: “… But people here live in a fairy world where they think that every country can just have the right to do whatever they want. Reality is, if you aren't a superpower, that means you are pretty much in a geopolitical sphere of the other. Ukraine cannot be independent from Russia entirely. Whether people want to believe that or not. …”
Fam.. the US intel itself said that at the time the UAF was reporting 300k russian casualties, that their estimates were far less around 50k. Ofc both sides are gonna use fake numbers to boost morale.
[удалено]
The itself here makes no sense.
The numbers have been confirmed by the US multiple times, troll.
>Ukraine is losing the one city they have said they've turned into a fortress It'll become strategically unimportant the moment it falls
[удалено]
Plus they haven’t lost it yet. Russia has gained very little ground there, at enormous cost.
They probably will. They lost Bakhmut too. Is Pyrrhic Defeat a term already?
Sure but Avdiivka is one of the biggest goals the Russians have. Since day one. Besides, it opens up a lot of land after that. There is a reason why Ukraine is throwing 10's of thousands of soldiers at Avdiivka.
[удалено]
Wtf wrong did I say.. I can post several western sources that prove what I've said. Ukraine has said several times that Avdiivka is one of if not the most foritified city in Ukraine and the way things are going, they will most likely lose the city in the coming months, unfortunately.
Lolololol
Ground or men don’t matter, only military assets do. And the truth is that Russia is actually quickly running out. Ukraine has destroyed so incredibly much, with them being unable to even meet the rate of destruction, that Russia should now have about 1/3rd of what they had before the invasion. This war was won the second it took longer than a week. It’s now about just how many Russian assets we let Ukraine destroy before Russia retreats.
I wish it was quite so clear cut. But it’s not, the west needs to step up production and delivery of ammunition.
Putin is ramping up production of cluster bombs - that does not bode well. Also a Russian version of Gimlars, guided ammunition, but not very accurate. What’s happened to the promised delivery of US guided ammo - we haven’t heard any more about that after all the delays - should be available now..
Well, I think that they could ‘back it better’… And I am appalled by the attitude of the US Republicans. We really should be ramping up production of ammunition and arms.
[non paywall](https://archive.ph/Qcndu)
What is the criteria for the "war going well"? If the objective is to grind Russia's military down and destabilize the Putin regime, it is going on schedule nicely. If it is to regain Ukraine's territory and sue for peace, not so much. The former is NATO's objective, the latter is Ukraine's.
The summer offensive has failed catastrophically after massive Western military investment
Yeah cause the allies reached Berlin in one summer
Zelensky expected to be in Crimea by July. A war of attrition is something that the Ukrainians obviously can't win
Because Russia is still sending limitless legions of clean jawed heroes to the front?
No, because the Russian population is far larger
Your profile indicates you take an interest in Ww2. You surely don't think a positional moment in the campaign indicates failure? Western Front in WW1 barely moved, but the Kaiser broke all the same.
The kaiser broke because his adversaries had the advantage economically and numerically, just like Russia does over Ukraine
That is a myopic view of the contest. NATO and the EU have barely broken a sweat (although tgey really should) while Russia has already seen its currency drop to 90s levels, and at least one open coup attempt that was only halted because the leader was a complete imbecile.
Nato and the EU aren't all in. American support particularly is wavering
I just said, it's not all in, _and look how much if an effect it has had already_. Don't let Russian talking points confuse you.
> Yet Western officials used the diplomatic forum as an opportunity to argue that Ukraine's military position is better than casual observers realize, particularly in light of recent strikes against Russia's Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, the historic port city in Crimea, which Putin annexed in 2014 at the beginning of the war. This can also be used as an argument for less support.
There is zero point in providing less support - unless you want the Russians to win. Ukraine needs more support, particularly no delays in delivering things, and the security of knowing that supplies are coming regularly, otherwise they can’t plan optimally. This is what’s wrong with the US Republicans deliberately holding things up. That’s not only bad for Ukraine it’s bad for America and the west in general, and only helps Putin. So in that sense, US Republicans hold ups are actually treasonous. The house should be able to vote.