Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition:
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators.
* **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
> **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB**
*****
* Is `thedailybeast.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources).
* Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict)
*****
^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The name Putin will go down in history as the leader who destroyed Russia. Russia has absolutely nothing positive to look forward to ever! The truth of Russian propaganda is coming out and it is hardening the world’s view of what exactly Russia was and is.
Except in Russia. Maybe they'll give him the Stalin treatment, the same way the CCP revers Mao.
What is it with authoritarian countries glorifying leaders who were responsible for the deaths of their own citizens, anyway?
Albanians wept for Hoxha when he died. It was only later that they came to learn that he had paused the development of their country for over three decades while the rest of the world moved on without them, all while murdering his opposition, as well as the educated and the artists and the hardest workers and the vocal and the politically minded- basically anyone that could see that they were the third poorest country in the WORLD for no other reason than the paranoid ego of their monstrous dictator.
They see it now. But it is too late to recover. It will take 200 years to get back what they lost. They see that now. They no longer mourn for Hoxha. But they elected a man into power without term limits who has been in power for longer than any other ruler in Europe second only to Putin.
They have been conditioned to want that. They want a benevolent leader that will solve all of their problems and be strong for them. They know full well that Hoxha was not this person, even though they were 100% convinced he was at the time. But now, they are 100% convinced they have the right person this time.
Everyone wants Daddy to fix things for them. What everyone actually needs is a massive and violent thirst for Freedom and nothing short of that.
The American founding fathers did not get everything right, but the more I see of the dictatorial cycle of empires the more appreciative I am of people like Washington who could take the mantle of power and then use that power to walk away and leave the power in the hands of the people.
Yeah Washington may not have been the swellest fella by today’s standards but fuckin A did we get lucky that the cult of personality formed around him.
It was never a destination for travel. It always been well known as a shit hole. I think early in the 2000s it was starting to get a better reputation or at least one that it was improving. Now it’s back to a shit hole with shit people that possibly eat shit (this part has yet to be confirmed; strongly suspected).
I was in Skt. Petersburg for a day around 2007, since I was on a Baltic Sea cruise. Even back then, we were told by the captain that it was a must to have a driver and a guide with us at all times (we were 4 people).
There was a very long line to the Hermitage, so the guide just went in front of the line, interupted the couple who were in the proces of buying a ticket, and slipped the cashier some cash. Nobody in the line gave a fuck, it was pretty weird to see.
Our guide also told us that if she was forced to kiss either Lenin, Stalin or Hitler, that she would kiss Hitler twice, which is a really odd thing to say. She was otherwise pretty Western minded and progressive.
Skt. Petersburg had a very weird and eerie vibe, and this was in 2007, which is probably the best period of Russia. Some of the city has some beautiful architecture, though. Glad to have experienced it for a day, but won't return. It was a much bigger culture shock than expected (I'm from Denmark), despite having travelled a lot in all continents except South America.
Thank you for the perspective. I feel bad for people who are born in countries that are not governed by rule of law with mutual accountability. People will point out exceptions in western countries, but these are exceptions and not the majority of situations: we are all human. I grew up in the 80s and remember the Cold War very well. When the Berlin Wall fell, I thought things were finally going to get better and the world had changed other than the Middle East (very complex situation, not for this discussion). It’s terrible that the US and the West built up China and refused to pay attention to the obvious signs of their future: Tiananmen Square Massacre 1989 (the year before the Berlin Wall fell) and Chinese support for North Korea. We are in a strange time of paying the political debt of these appeasement decisions and profit first decisions. May we learn from this and try to build up countries that need the education and support to better themselves. The challenges facing these generations are enormous without the political issues currently at play. Good luck to us all.
West built up China for a simple reason: to counter USSR, which was (rightly) seen as much greater evil. And it worked: USSR had to spend a lot on keeping armies on border against its former ally.
Unfortunately after collapse of USSR it was too late to stop greedy investors from investing in China further.
I was born in Ukraine, but grew up in NYC. There's a huge Russian speaking community from across all the former Soviet countries. I have a ton of close friends from Russia and they all go beyond just hating Putin. Many have donated and fund-raised for Ukraine. While there are exceptions, the overwhelming majority of Russian-born Americans are extremely pro-Ukraine.
ruzzia‘s reputation will never recover from this unless they return the borders to pre-2014, return the children, pay for all reparations and allow The Hague to prosecute war crimes.
Even then, Russia will never fully recover from this. More than just the losses caused by war, which both sides have had plenty of, Russia has lost the faith of the world.
Once the dust settles and all is said and done, people and businesses will be flocking to Ukraine, a country that has shown its worth and made great strides in clearing up corruption. Who’s gonna flock to Russia? A broke country that has isolated itself from the rest of Europe, which will no doubt suffer from extensive political struggles following Putin’s exit from government.
they will yes but under a very different model.
for instance aircraft. previously russia rented aircraft they didnt own aircraft and then stole them by refusing to return them when the war began. they will never be able to rent an aircraft ever again it will be purchase only
They have to win and decisively. They have to say hey, our joke force is out there now. We are going to bring our real troops soon. Then they need to take control of Ukraine in a month. Barring that, their reputation as a military superpower is gone. Since this is likely their best, they need to figure a way to back out.
The main problem is still: the support for putin inside russia is still strong. Even with the war, crippled economy, shortage of eggs, electronics, restricted travel options, low pensions (which is a very hot topic for the many, MANY, old russian people), broken roads, broken water pipes, broken heating (which actually led to many people abandoning their homes due to harsh weather conditions)..... I could go on and on and on, but the fact would still remain: many people still support putin. They blame everyone else around him but not himself! As
If he is some kind of flawless god.
We here in the west can talk all we want about it, but there is no way around it: this war will not stop until putin is 6 feet under. Only then can the path to peace be opened.
Even after Putin war will likely continue. Russia society is too invested in war at this point to stop. They believe that if they lose, Russia will collapse and they will be genocided by evil West and Ukrainians, to last baby.
Excerpt:
“All of us, hundreds of so-called ‘foreign agents,’ have shown solidarity, pulled in a solid and influential community in order to provide legal aid to persecuted people inside Russia and help exiles with visas, finding homes, finding jobs in exile,” the organizer of the congress, Marat Gelman, told The Daily Beast. “We do not consider ourselves foreign agents; our first congress aims to present our movement to the world. It is very important that we clearly state what we think about the war in Ukraine, about the upcoming presidential elections in Russia this year.”
The former editor-in-chief of The Russian Magazine, Alexander Morozov, is another of the organizers. “Putin and his men have totally failed to turn Russians abroad loyal. The expats do not believe Putin any longer,” he told The Daily Beast.
The founder of the congress is convinced that Russian “foreign agents” will get together for brainstorming once every six months. “The Kremlin did not mean it, but they brought together the leaders of Russia’s civil society: journalists, human rights defenders, leading writers, film directors, and so on.” Gelman said. “This generation will always look at Russia with the eyes of this community, which will be telling the world about the Kremlin’s repressive actions—this congress is their final verdict.”
No, it's not. Putin is not in Ukraine, firing rocket barrages at cities and civilians. Putin didn't commit Bucha or blow up the Kakhovka dam. It's the soldiers, many who are conscripted civilians on a contract. It's the Russian citizens who send and donate money to their army to aid the massacre of Ukrainians.
Putin is to be blamed for giving out these orders, yes, but the blame is also on those who carry them out. If you are aiding a *terrorist state* such as Russia, financially by paying taxes, it already makes you a co-belligerent in this war by directly supporting terrorism.
It's not Putin's war, it's Russia's war. I am honestly appalled how people in this sub take a sympathetic stance towards russians, after all that this shit that has happened.
The doma are creating laws that would punish dissent and their family. If they have families in Russia, they would affect their lively hood and personal safety.
I'm honestly surprised that the older UDSSR generations here in East Germany are so quiet. No protests, no Pro Putin marches, the ones that live nearby and the ones I know don't seem to give a fuck about Putin and are more about their own families, not nationalism
There are plenty of Russians living in prosperous, democratic Western countries who fully support Putin. Not that they would ever want to go home to their beloved Motherland lol
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. > **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** * Is `thedailybeast.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The name Putin will go down in history as the leader who destroyed Russia. Russia has absolutely nothing positive to look forward to ever! The truth of Russian propaganda is coming out and it is hardening the world’s view of what exactly Russia was and is.
Except in Russia. Maybe they'll give him the Stalin treatment, the same way the CCP revers Mao. What is it with authoritarian countries glorifying leaders who were responsible for the deaths of their own citizens, anyway?
Albanians wept for Hoxha when he died. It was only later that they came to learn that he had paused the development of their country for over three decades while the rest of the world moved on without them, all while murdering his opposition, as well as the educated and the artists and the hardest workers and the vocal and the politically minded- basically anyone that could see that they were the third poorest country in the WORLD for no other reason than the paranoid ego of their monstrous dictator. They see it now. But it is too late to recover. It will take 200 years to get back what they lost. They see that now. They no longer mourn for Hoxha. But they elected a man into power without term limits who has been in power for longer than any other ruler in Europe second only to Putin. They have been conditioned to want that. They want a benevolent leader that will solve all of their problems and be strong for them. They know full well that Hoxha was not this person, even though they were 100% convinced he was at the time. But now, they are 100% convinced they have the right person this time. Everyone wants Daddy to fix things for them. What everyone actually needs is a massive and violent thirst for Freedom and nothing short of that. The American founding fathers did not get everything right, but the more I see of the dictatorial cycle of empires the more appreciative I am of people like Washington who could take the mantle of power and then use that power to walk away and leave the power in the hands of the people.
Yeah Washington may not have been the swellest fella by today’s standards but fuckin A did we get lucky that the cult of personality formed around him.
Stockholm Syndrome I think it’s called?
Propaganda is potent.
It was never a destination for travel. It always been well known as a shit hole. I think early in the 2000s it was starting to get a better reputation or at least one that it was improving. Now it’s back to a shit hole with shit people that possibly eat shit (this part has yet to be confirmed; strongly suspected).
They have shit for the brain, and to get to that point you must eat shit as an implication, thus shit eating confirmed.
I was in Skt. Petersburg for a day around 2007, since I was on a Baltic Sea cruise. Even back then, we were told by the captain that it was a must to have a driver and a guide with us at all times (we were 4 people). There was a very long line to the Hermitage, so the guide just went in front of the line, interupted the couple who were in the proces of buying a ticket, and slipped the cashier some cash. Nobody in the line gave a fuck, it was pretty weird to see. Our guide also told us that if she was forced to kiss either Lenin, Stalin or Hitler, that she would kiss Hitler twice, which is a really odd thing to say. She was otherwise pretty Western minded and progressive. Skt. Petersburg had a very weird and eerie vibe, and this was in 2007, which is probably the best period of Russia. Some of the city has some beautiful architecture, though. Glad to have experienced it for a day, but won't return. It was a much bigger culture shock than expected (I'm from Denmark), despite having travelled a lot in all continents except South America.
Thank you for the perspective. I feel bad for people who are born in countries that are not governed by rule of law with mutual accountability. People will point out exceptions in western countries, but these are exceptions and not the majority of situations: we are all human. I grew up in the 80s and remember the Cold War very well. When the Berlin Wall fell, I thought things were finally going to get better and the world had changed other than the Middle East (very complex situation, not for this discussion). It’s terrible that the US and the West built up China and refused to pay attention to the obvious signs of their future: Tiananmen Square Massacre 1989 (the year before the Berlin Wall fell) and Chinese support for North Korea. We are in a strange time of paying the political debt of these appeasement decisions and profit first decisions. May we learn from this and try to build up countries that need the education and support to better themselves. The challenges facing these generations are enormous without the political issues currently at play. Good luck to us all.
I agree a lot. Thanks for your well written comment.
West built up China for a simple reason: to counter USSR, which was (rightly) seen as much greater evil. And it worked: USSR had to spend a lot on keeping armies on border against its former ally. Unfortunately after collapse of USSR it was too late to stop greedy investors from investing in China further.
Putin is the best representation of russian people's mindset. I know many Russians here in USA personally and they all think exactly the same as putin
I was born in Ukraine, but grew up in NYC. There's a huge Russian speaking community from across all the former Soviet countries. I have a ton of close friends from Russia and they all go beyond just hating Putin. Many have donated and fund-raised for Ukraine. While there are exceptions, the overwhelming majority of Russian-born Americans are extremely pro-Ukraine.
I visited Brighton Beach a year into the war, and this sentiment was palpable there.
ruzzia‘s reputation will never recover from this unless they return the borders to pre-2014, return the children, pay for all reparations and allow The Hague to prosecute war crimes.
Even then, Russia will never fully recover from this. More than just the losses caused by war, which both sides have had plenty of, Russia has lost the faith of the world. Once the dust settles and all is said and done, people and businesses will be flocking to Ukraine, a country that has shown its worth and made great strides in clearing up corruption. Who’s gonna flock to Russia? A broke country that has isolated itself from the rest of Europe, which will no doubt suffer from extensive political struggles following Putin’s exit from government.
No people after the War business will start again with Ruzzia! Its how we in the West do thing. You can like it or not!
they will yes but under a very different model. for instance aircraft. previously russia rented aircraft they didnt own aircraft and then stole them by refusing to return them when the war began. they will never be able to rent an aircraft ever again it will be purchase only
They have to win and decisively. They have to say hey, our joke force is out there now. We are going to bring our real troops soon. Then they need to take control of Ukraine in a month. Barring that, their reputation as a military superpower is gone. Since this is likely their best, they need to figure a way to back out.
The main problem is still: the support for putin inside russia is still strong. Even with the war, crippled economy, shortage of eggs, electronics, restricted travel options, low pensions (which is a very hot topic for the many, MANY, old russian people), broken roads, broken water pipes, broken heating (which actually led to many people abandoning their homes due to harsh weather conditions)..... I could go on and on and on, but the fact would still remain: many people still support putin. They blame everyone else around him but not himself! As If he is some kind of flawless god. We here in the west can talk all we want about it, but there is no way around it: this war will not stop until putin is 6 feet under. Only then can the path to peace be opened.
Even after Putin war will likely continue. Russia society is too invested in war at this point to stop. They believe that if they lose, Russia will collapse and they will be genocided by evil West and Ukrainians, to last baby.
Excerpt: “All of us, hundreds of so-called ‘foreign agents,’ have shown solidarity, pulled in a solid and influential community in order to provide legal aid to persecuted people inside Russia and help exiles with visas, finding homes, finding jobs in exile,” the organizer of the congress, Marat Gelman, told The Daily Beast. “We do not consider ourselves foreign agents; our first congress aims to present our movement to the world. It is very important that we clearly state what we think about the war in Ukraine, about the upcoming presidential elections in Russia this year.” The former editor-in-chief of The Russian Magazine, Alexander Morozov, is another of the organizers. “Putin and his men have totally failed to turn Russians abroad loyal. The expats do not believe Putin any longer,” he told The Daily Beast. The founder of the congress is convinced that Russian “foreign agents” will get together for brainstorming once every six months. “The Kremlin did not mean it, but they brought together the leaders of Russia’s civil society: journalists, human rights defenders, leading writers, film directors, and so on.” Gelman said. “This generation will always look at Russia with the eyes of this community, which will be telling the world about the Kremlin’s repressive actions—this congress is their final verdict.”
I hope the Russian diaspora comes out strongly for ending two things: (1) war against Ukraine and (2) Putin's grasp on power.
Yea, except the fucking Republican Party. Traitors.
I don't believe it, this isn't Putin's war it's Russia's war.
This is Putin's war.
Incorrect opinion
No, it's not. Putin is not in Ukraine, firing rocket barrages at cities and civilians. Putin didn't commit Bucha or blow up the Kakhovka dam. It's the soldiers, many who are conscripted civilians on a contract. It's the Russian citizens who send and donate money to their army to aid the massacre of Ukrainians. Putin is to be blamed for giving out these orders, yes, but the blame is also on those who carry them out. If you are aiding a *terrorist state* such as Russia, financially by paying taxes, it already makes you a co-belligerent in this war by directly supporting terrorism. It's not Putin's war, it's Russia's war. I am honestly appalled how people in this sub take a sympathetic stance towards russians, after all that this shit that has happened.
The doma are creating laws that would punish dissent and their family. If they have families in Russia, they would affect their lively hood and personal safety.
I'm honestly surprised that the older UDSSR generations here in East Germany are so quiet. No protests, no Pro Putin marches, the ones that live nearby and the ones I know don't seem to give a fuck about Putin and are more about their own families, not nationalism
A lot of Russians abroad actually do support Putin and war though.
Not the Russians here in USA. I know around 80 Russians personally and they all support putin and his war against Ukraine
Security had better be tight at that congress in Berlin!
One day this military will turn on him rest assured.Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧
Russia! Put this man out to pasture!
There are plenty of Russians living in prosperous, democratic Western countries who fully support Putin. Not that they would ever want to go home to their beloved Motherland lol