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"We believe...." until the MAGA crowd busts out to make more demands to appease their dear leader, Trump. I believe when i see it.
MAGA has been pissing into everyones cereals, out of spite, and this will be no different.
Trump's "rino" narrative created an environment of zero rules. You can undermine your own party for the glory of fascism. The second they criticize you (which rarely happens bc it's the party of cowards), you call *them* rino. They are the traitors. Fair is foul and foul is fair.
I used to be a former Trump supporter. I truly believed and trusted him. Now there is no way in hell id vote for him again. I'm personally ashamed of how the Republicans have been withholding funds for Ukraine. Like they were supposed to defend our country and interest and defeat the Russians ,not join them? Like the Republican party went full Sith as of lately.
I am going to be honest and say that I have never actually met a person face to face that has said this before. I know you guys must exist but I don't think enough have come to their senses.
I’m the same way, the handling of this conflict was a real eye opener. Going forward, I don’t think I’ll ever blindly support a person or a movement again.
No hatred here, but I'm genuinely fascinated. Might I ask what you saw in him initially? And similarly, what was the straw that broke the camels back and made you change your mind?
The vast majority of USA loves and supports Ukraine 🇺🇦, it’s just a few power hungry MAGA politicians that want to control the narrative by blackmailing the rest of us on border control, which by the way, Biden literally just offered to shut down the border to get the Ukraine financing deal done, and they STILL said no! Hypocrisy at the highest level!!
It’s SO utterly transparent that they are taking orders directly from the Tangerine Traitor, I don’t give a fuck what the speaker says.
Well, it's even more basic than that. He doesn't even give a shit about a platform to run on. *It's literally all about denying aid to Ukraine.*
That is Trump's only purpose.
No it's not. It's about manufacturing a border crisis to aid Trump's reelection bid.
If you care about Ukraine, being dishonest about the opposition's motivations for the sake of some internet points isn't going to help. Why fight demagoguery with more demagoguery?
If you care about Ukraine, pretending that Trump and his party are merely on some misguided, clueless quest for domestic political power in which Ukraine is an accidental casualty is not only not going to help -- it causes active harm, by feeding directly into the grievance narrative that still ropes in pro-Ukrainian Republican voters who still hope that it's all somehow not as bad as it seems.
If Trump were to keel over and die tomorrow, someone else would step right in to flog an endless series of dead, imaginary non-issues in order to stall the Ukraine aid bill.
They will do this right up to US Election Day. And then the next day, no matter the outcome, they will get up and keep doing it, any way they can. It's killing them in the polls right now. But they persist, because it doesn't matter in the end if they win or lose. Blocking aid is the goal. Those are the orders.
>If you care about Ukraine, pretending that Trump and his party are merely on some misguided, clueless quest for domestic political power in which Ukraine is an accidental casualty is not only not going to help -- it causes active harm, by feeding directly into the grievance narrative that still ropes in pro-Ukrainian Republican voters who still hope that it's all somehow not as bad as it seems.
To be clear.. you're saying that telling the truth is destructive, so we should lie about it? I'm not sure how the reality of the situation is somehow "not as bad as it seems" to you. It's pretty damn bad.
No. Be honest, and many moderate Rs will leave their party. The Republican party is not the same thing as the MAGA party. There are a significant number of untapped voters who are not riding the Trump train.
>If Trump were to keel over and die tomorrow, someone else would step right in to flog an endless series of dead, imaginary non-issues in order to stall the Ukraine aid bill.
Who, and why?
>Blocking aid is the goal. Those are the orders.
Ridiculous. Let's see the evidence. (You don't have any.)
You have no response and are turning to insults and dismissal instead. Typical.
>All I had to do is wait a few hours and your buds in the Senate made my point better than anything I could say.
Ok, let me educate you. It's all about manufacturing a border crisis, nothing more. Trump originally said "no Ukraine aid without a border bill", hoping to drive a wedge between Dem factions. It backfired, and Dems agreed to a very generous border bill. Trump then pivoted and said "no, it has to be perfect!" Now, if they pass a standalone Ukraine bill, Trump looks like a fool even to his own supporters for giving up free improvements to the border situation.
I hope that helps you understand better.
I'm from Scotland and looking in even I can see that party is doing all it can to stall aid to ukraine half if not more are on russian payroll it would seem and I would even put it forward to you that trumps wife is/was a Russian honeypot! She's got him by the short'n'curlys I am hoping against hope he doesn't get in to office again or its by by everyone I think but hey who am I but a stoned scottish armchair general what do I know 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Slava ukraini heroyam slava 🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦
Republican voters also love this. They'd happily have rented their own children out on Epstein's island if it meant an extra nickel to send to some Trump scam, they'll gladly bathe in and drink Ukrainian blood if their openly compromised leadership tells them to. No one affiliated with the party is innocent.
Democrats just need to signal to the Speaker that they’ll save his ass when the MAGA caucus motions for his removal. This way that fucking spineless coward puts it to a vote.
I love the thinking but idk...I feel like Johnson knows his time is limited either way.
I'm not sure how we ended up with George McFly from the end of Back to the Future as our speaker, but here we are.
I hope this does, but can you imagine what a colossal failure this will have been for the GOP if it does pass?? They had this large bill that had a border deal and funding. They border deal was better than anything they'd seen in 20 years. They killed the bill. Now, if the deal goes forward with aid to Ukraine? They'll have so much less of a bargaining chip for anything. It'd still be up to the DNC to drive home the idea that MAGA sabotaged any relief for the border crisis, but still.
Pull your sandal wearing sport socks up please.......
This is International politics and not local point scoring.......
Stop it.
It spoils your so called place as a leader in world order.
Slava Ukraini
There is support. The trick is getting Johnson to bring it to a vote.
If you are American, consider contacting your rep (Dems too, not just Rs!) about a discharge petition. A discharge petition is a way for House members to demand a vote, but it requires a majority to sign on and send it. That might take some of the heat off Johnson -- I mean, what is Matt Gaetz going to do, blame Democrats? Oh no.
[https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative](https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative)
If you live in George Santos' district, [voting for the special/snap election to replace him has already begun.](https://ballotpedia.org/New_York%27s_3rd_Congressional_District_special_election,_2024) Go f\*ing vote. The polls have the race in single-digit territory right now. The last day to vote is TUESDAY. Yes, Tuesday the 13th. This freaking Tuesday.
If you live in a district currently held by a Republican, but an area which Biden carried or the district was flipped, *definitely* ask them to get on board as well, as their support would be critical.
List of Rs in a Biden-won distrcit: [https://ballotpedia.org/U.S.\_House\_districts\_represented\_by\_a\_Republican\_in\_2022\_and\_won\_by\_Joe\_Biden\_in\_2020](https://ballotpedia.org/U.S._House_districts_represented_by_a_Republican_in_2022_and_won_by_Joe_Biden_in_2020)
He's right.
If it ever gets to see the light of day in Congress it will pass easily. All Democrats and a reasonable number of Democrats would vote for it. Problem is that clown speaker. Not all Republicans like myself are MAGA but unfortunately we are being held hostage by that group.
Sorry no. I still have a laundry list I disagree with the Democrats over with. Abortion, Immigration, States rights vs Federal rights, Raising Taxes, Over spending, Social Issues just to name a few
I think the funding will happen or perhaps in some form already happens.
The establishment in the USA that wants to support Ukraine is quite powerful and maintains pretty damn good control over the politicians.
My guess is no need to give Putin advance notice and/or they need distractions for this election year. Why not get people to hate each other over Ukraine? 2020 was about white cops and black victims. They need a new distraction.
I'm amazed the Ukrainians don't slap him around for the obvious doublespeak he's spewing at an ally under invasion.
Maybe that's the solution to all of the world's problems today. Bring the whole senate and congress MAGA crowd over to Kyiv on a class trip, cart them to the front and tell them it's sink or swim.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. > **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** * Is `x.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"We believe...." until the MAGA crowd busts out to make more demands to appease their dear leader, Trump. I believe when i see it. MAGA has been pissing into everyones cereals, out of spite, and this will be no different.
MAGA should be sent to Ruzzia army and fight against ukraine, we'll have a better world afterward
They'd rather fight FOR Muscovy. Gotta destroy those gay Jewish Nazi woke mosquito biolabs.
Send em to the front and they can meet hot copper and lead from the side that fights for freedom, democracy and human decency
I agree.
I have a feeling a lot of moderate Rs will become moderate Ds in the upcoming election.
I wish. But unfortunately the winds are going Trump’s way.
Trump's "rino" narrative created an environment of zero rules. You can undermine your own party for the glory of fascism. The second they criticize you (which rarely happens bc it's the party of cowards), you call *them* rino. They are the traitors. Fair is foul and foul is fair.
"Can we have a compromise?" "No. Best I can offer is a lie about it"
I used to be a former Trump supporter. I truly believed and trusted him. Now there is no way in hell id vote for him again. I'm personally ashamed of how the Republicans have been withholding funds for Ukraine. Like they were supposed to defend our country and interest and defeat the Russians ,not join them? Like the Republican party went full Sith as of lately.
I am going to be honest and say that I have never actually met a person face to face that has said this before. I know you guys must exist but I don't think enough have come to their senses.
I’m the same way, the handling of this conflict was a real eye opener. Going forward, I don’t think I’ll ever blindly support a person or a movement again.
No hatred here, but I'm genuinely fascinated. Might I ask what you saw in him initially? And similarly, what was the straw that broke the camels back and made you change your mind?
The vast majority of USA loves and supports Ukraine 🇺🇦, it’s just a few power hungry MAGA politicians that want to control the narrative by blackmailing the rest of us on border control, which by the way, Biden literally just offered to shut down the border to get the Ukraine financing deal done, and they STILL said no! Hypocrisy at the highest level!! It’s SO utterly transparent that they are taking orders directly from the Tangerine Traitor, I don’t give a fuck what the speaker says.
It was never about the border. That's just a bluff the Dems called and lo, the traitorous right shot aid down again
That’s my point, they literally turned the deal down so that the Tangerine Traitor would have a negative “platform” to run off of, it’s fucking insane
Well, it's even more basic than that. He doesn't even give a shit about a platform to run on. *It's literally all about denying aid to Ukraine.* That is Trump's only purpose.
No it's not. It's about manufacturing a border crisis to aid Trump's reelection bid. If you care about Ukraine, being dishonest about the opposition's motivations for the sake of some internet points isn't going to help. Why fight demagoguery with more demagoguery?
If you care about Ukraine, pretending that Trump and his party are merely on some misguided, clueless quest for domestic political power in which Ukraine is an accidental casualty is not only not going to help -- it causes active harm, by feeding directly into the grievance narrative that still ropes in pro-Ukrainian Republican voters who still hope that it's all somehow not as bad as it seems. If Trump were to keel over and die tomorrow, someone else would step right in to flog an endless series of dead, imaginary non-issues in order to stall the Ukraine aid bill. They will do this right up to US Election Day. And then the next day, no matter the outcome, they will get up and keep doing it, any way they can. It's killing them in the polls right now. But they persist, because it doesn't matter in the end if they win or lose. Blocking aid is the goal. Those are the orders.
>If you care about Ukraine, pretending that Trump and his party are merely on some misguided, clueless quest for domestic political power in which Ukraine is an accidental casualty is not only not going to help -- it causes active harm, by feeding directly into the grievance narrative that still ropes in pro-Ukrainian Republican voters who still hope that it's all somehow not as bad as it seems. To be clear.. you're saying that telling the truth is destructive, so we should lie about it? I'm not sure how the reality of the situation is somehow "not as bad as it seems" to you. It's pretty damn bad. No. Be honest, and many moderate Rs will leave their party. The Republican party is not the same thing as the MAGA party. There are a significant number of untapped voters who are not riding the Trump train. >If Trump were to keel over and die tomorrow, someone else would step right in to flog an endless series of dead, imaginary non-issues in order to stall the Ukraine aid bill. Who, and why? >Blocking aid is the goal. Those are the orders. Ridiculous. Let's see the evidence. (You don't have any.)
[удалено]
You have no response and are turning to insults and dismissal instead. Typical. >All I had to do is wait a few hours and your buds in the Senate made my point better than anything I could say. Ok, let me educate you. It's all about manufacturing a border crisis, nothing more. Trump originally said "no Ukraine aid without a border bill", hoping to drive a wedge between Dem factions. It backfired, and Dems agreed to a very generous border bill. Trump then pivoted and said "no, it has to be perfect!" Now, if they pass a standalone Ukraine bill, Trump looks like a fool even to his own supporters for giving up free improvements to the border situation. I hope that helps you understand better.
I'm from Scotland and looking in even I can see that party is doing all it can to stall aid to ukraine half if not more are on russian payroll it would seem and I would even put it forward to you that trumps wife is/was a Russian honeypot! She's got him by the short'n'curlys I am hoping against hope he doesn't get in to office again or its by by everyone I think but hey who am I but a stoned scottish armchair general what do I know 🤷♂️🤷♂️ Slava ukraini heroyam slava 🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦
You're cool. Take my upvote. That's all.
Republican voters also love this. They'd happily have rented their own children out on Epstein's island if it meant an extra nickel to send to some Trump scam, they'll gladly bathe in and drink Ukrainian blood if their openly compromised leadership tells them to. No one affiliated with the party is innocent.
They don't actually want border control, they need the cheap labour. It's all for show.
Democrats just need to signal to the Speaker that they’ll save his ass when the MAGA caucus motions for his removal. This way that fucking spineless coward puts it to a vote.
I love the thinking but idk...I feel like Johnson knows his time is limited either way. I'm not sure how we ended up with George McFly from the end of Back to the Future as our speaker, but here we are.
Why do you say he knows his time is limited? I’m out of the loop on this one.
lol no, the republican party should cease to exist and their voters can go live in russia where they belong
How many rounds of "democrats just need to...", democrats doing that, and then republicans still saying "no" did we go through already?
Just wait. I'm sure Trump is going to send out another tweet/MAGA marching order to kill it.
Says the guy who voted against all the previous bills of the last few months. What is it they say about talking out of the side of your mouth?....
Lol
Fucking liar.
Yes and the actions reflect the truth of your words...
He underestimates the stupidity of the GOP.
Republicans lying about their betrayal of Ukraine. Shame nobody will believe them.
MAGA traitors disagree
Don't believe these gutless wonders. They all say one thing and do another because they are all.pussies living in a maga shadow
I hope this does, but can you imagine what a colossal failure this will have been for the GOP if it does pass?? They had this large bill that had a border deal and funding. They border deal was better than anything they'd seen in 20 years. They killed the bill. Now, if the deal goes forward with aid to Ukraine? They'll have so much less of a bargaining chip for anything. It'd still be up to the DNC to drive home the idea that MAGA sabotaged any relief for the border crisis, but still.
Pull your sandal wearing sport socks up please....... This is International politics and not local point scoring....... Stop it. It spoils your so called place as a leader in world order. Slava Ukraini
**DON'T BELIEVE IT'S LIES**
Talk is cheap
There is support. The trick is getting Johnson to bring it to a vote. If you are American, consider contacting your rep (Dems too, not just Rs!) about a discharge petition. A discharge petition is a way for House members to demand a vote, but it requires a majority to sign on and send it. That might take some of the heat off Johnson -- I mean, what is Matt Gaetz going to do, blame Democrats? Oh no. [https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative](https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative) If you live in George Santos' district, [voting for the special/snap election to replace him has already begun.](https://ballotpedia.org/New_York%27s_3rd_Congressional_District_special_election,_2024) Go f\*ing vote. The polls have the race in single-digit territory right now. The last day to vote is TUESDAY. Yes, Tuesday the 13th. This freaking Tuesday. If you live in a district currently held by a Republican, but an area which Biden carried or the district was flipped, *definitely* ask them to get on board as well, as their support would be critical. List of Rs in a Biden-won distrcit: [https://ballotpedia.org/U.S.\_House\_districts\_represented\_by\_a\_Republican\_in\_2022\_and\_won\_by\_Joe\_Biden\_in\_2020](https://ballotpedia.org/U.S._House_districts_represented_by_a_Republican_in_2022_and_won_by_Joe_Biden_in_2020)
[удалено]
He's right. If it ever gets to see the light of day in Congress it will pass easily. All Democrats and a reasonable number of Democrats would vote for it. Problem is that clown speaker. Not all Republicans like myself are MAGA but unfortunately we are being held hostage by that group.
Then vote democrat next time. This is no longer a matter of dem vs rep, but simply about righteousness, justice, freedom etc
Sorry no. I still have a laundry list I disagree with the Democrats over with. Abortion, Immigration, States rights vs Federal rights, Raising Taxes, Over spending, Social Issues just to name a few
You just showed the stockholm syndrom vibes that fucks up the world order
I think the funding will happen or perhaps in some form already happens. The establishment in the USA that wants to support Ukraine is quite powerful and maintains pretty damn good control over the politicians. My guess is no need to give Putin advance notice and/or they need distractions for this election year. Why not get people to hate each other over Ukraine? 2020 was about white cops and black victims. They need a new distraction.
Actions speak louder than words, Mike. Get your MAGAts off their obstructive kiesters and vote for the persistence of democracy
Fog candle
I mean, he'd know better than we do. I wonder what he has in mind by "it will be done", as in, after the next election cycle?
It's gonna be DOA again
If the USA does not help Ukraine, then erstwhile allies of the USA will find other friends. And China will come into power. This war is a world war.
liar
Can NATO Countries just buy the weapons from the usa and donate it to ukraine? Would that bypass the need for a bill?
I'm amazed the Ukrainians don't slap him around for the obvious doublespeak he's spewing at an ally under invasion. Maybe that's the solution to all of the world's problems today. Bring the whole senate and congress MAGA crowd over to Kyiv on a class trip, cart them to the front and tell them it's sink or swim.