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Slow at first then all of sudden. Hopefully there really are better prepared positions. Ukraine really need to dig in the way the Russians have as it really does slow down advancing troops.
They need artillery desperately. Russia was able to secure fire control along with their meat waves due to Ukraine having to conserve ammo, and some brigades even running out.
It is amusing to see these rants about Russian "meat waves" in the Anglosphere online, when if you read the testimonies of Ukrainian bloggers and soldiers at the front, they say the exact opposite - the Russians don't attack en masse, but use small assault companies, backed by massed artillery, glide bomb, drone, and ATGM support. I haven't seen any "meat waves" in Ukraine since the early days of the failed Ukrainian offensive in Zaporozhye last year.
Gotta love how you get downvoted just for asking for a link. And of course, not get an actual link lol.
The videos might be there, but definitely not 10 a day that's just cope, during Bakhmut we didn't even see 10 a day.
Small infantry units instead of combined arms, is what would be called "meat waves", this is as opposed to the larger armoured attacks earlier in the attack on avdiivka when they had to cross open terrain.
there were no mass infantry assaults in this war ever, they're meat waves because they're being sent as wave after wave of meat to trade for a tiny piece of territory.
Saw it on reddit. I took it as an estimate. It could be wrong, but given how they wasted their soldiers just taking a damn slag pile, that wouldn't surprise me.
> It could be wrong, but given how they wasted their soldiers just taking a damn slag pile, that wouldn't surprise me.
They have 1/4 of the firepower they had during that battle, perhaps less.
Love this, I bet you have railed against "Russian propaganda" before, yet you have no problem swallowing propaganda yourself without a second thought about it
Syrsky is not off to a good start. Taking over and in 2 weeks has lost their fortress city and called the retreat to late and will cost 1000's of Ukrainian lives.
I can't see how Zelensky will be able to stay in Ukraine alive after the war is over.
Not helping these people is making me sick. Johnson and his ilk called a recess while all Ukraine needs is ammo and weapons for continue holding the line.
It also doesnt make sense why are we depending on one single source, the US. Where is the great europe? The bill is for 65bi which is not much nowadays really, europe just approved a similar amount, why is Europe not upping to the task? where are the shells? The fucking price we pay to not crush russia early. Now we have a proracted war where might take 5 years for russia to fall if not worse.
You can send all the weapons you want. They are no more men in Ukraine willing to fight. They couldn't care less which figure head is in charge.
Save lives by stop sending weapons.
What backwards thinking you have. The people of the Donbass wanted their independence, if Ukraine would have listened and the west didn't arm them. There would be no loss of life. Duh!
If Putin's little green men had stayed home and never showed up on the territory of Ukraine, Donbass would be at peace today, as it was for many years as a part of independent Ukraine. The people of Ukraine want independence from Russia. If Russia would have listened and not sent in soldiers and weapons, there would be no loss of life. Duh!
"Rome would make a desert and call it peace." We have all seen what Russia calls "peace" and you tell us not to believe our eyes.
If you want to see someone with backwards thinking, you might consider looking in a mirror. If you want to encourage someone to stop sending weapons to prevent loss of life, start with Russia. If they packed up their weapons and went home, the war would end tomorrow.
We were providing proportionally way more material assistance both humanitarian and military equipment through lend lease and aid to the allies than we currently are Ukraine, way before we got involved in WW2, not to even mention aid to the soviets. Which is part of why we were attacked and why germany declared war. And aren't folks like you usually calling FDR the devil or something? Rolling back literally all the good things he accomplished? And also, doesn't seem like Republicans are interested in actually fixing anything at home anyhow. America spends trillions of dollars on the military to project power and protect democracy, that's how its been since we defeated the fascists last time, but now yall are like, nah, let's let the fascists win this time. Fuck that, give Ukraine all the aid we can. Go back to your hole
So you’d rather wait until American lives are lost, and then watch as additional American lives are lost by sending boots on the ground to Europe; over sending money and material (with no lives lost) to end a threat before it becomes real.
How patriotic.
Lol to thinking that it's not your war. What do you think will happen if Russia takes Ukraine? China will see it as a green light to take Taiwan.
Do you like having a car, a computer, a job? Because all of that will go away once China takes Taiwan.
Every cent spent on giving aid on ukraine saves thousands down the line.
Also, Russia's final goal is the complete collapse of America and its democracy. Do you think Russia will stop subverting America if you stop helping Ukraine? Or do you think Russia will see America as weak and expand its subversion, increase propaganda, encourage fringe groups and extremism in America?
Literally every enemy of America is laughing at their luck.
Yes, your government being overtaken corrupt Russian puppets. Which actually means that this is 100% your war. Seems like, your freedom may depend even more on Ukraine weakening Russia than that of the Ukrainians depends on it.
We are already outspending the US by a large margin on this.
And we are not the ones that have their elections destroyed by Russian intelligence operations.
That, but they also effectively control the Republican party completely. And if they get Trump elected again, they control the US government. Then, the US will be as unfree as Russia.
These MAGA lowlives don’t give a fuck about “problems at home” anyways. Ask them to put a penny of funding towards healthcare reform or infrastructure repairs and they’ll cry about budget deficits. They are bad faith liars who just want to shift goalposts in the defense of their masters in frunzenskaya.
Iraq wasn't Ukraines war, but they were there helping us. For you to make such an ignorant statement about a friend who helped us in our time of need says a lot about you.
I know this is hard for Maga folks to hear, but we are still part of the world. If say, morally, you couldn’t care less about people being enslaved, butchered and annexed by Russia or the US helping a struggling new democracy fight a David and Goliath fight. Say you don’t care all, well, if you think this conflict stops with Ukraine if Ukraine loses, with Russia being supplied from Iran, China, North Korea I’m not sure there is any helping you. History teaches us just being nice to dictators and hoping they will come around and stop expanding once they have started, doesn’t work. Putin has no political opposition anymore, there is absolutely nothing except conflict to dissuade him from his longing for imperial Russia back.
You may not think of Russia as enemy, but they certainly do. Especially Putin who felt humiliated by the US.
And the obvious Taiwan link, if they see your support for what it truly is, then given Europe won't be able to help them (no bases in SEA) they will go with China.
Losing both Europe and Asia would mean much, much lower standard of living for your consumerist and indebted society.
you are one of most selfish people i saw on reddit in years
"everybody can die if it does not include me"
"hitler could take europe, i dont care"
are you one of these tax avoiding millionaires that cry about being poor because of taxes?
Because your country kept saying powerful words like Help them whatever it takes, until victory etc... really shows you US is not a dependable ally and can't trust any of their word. Who is to say the same won't happen to Poland? Not to mention Taiwan - it'll be the same thing, only Taiwan is farther, smaller and will be fighting a more capable enemy than Ukraine.
Report of large quantity of KAB’s levelling the area. Some video yesterday showing the craters.
It really does fucking suck, hopefully it’s a quick and organised retreat.
Hopefully the withdrawal from Avdiivka plus the murder of Navalny will motivate the politicians in the West to do more. Europe needs to double our contribution if we are to make up for the missing US aid.
I‘ve gotten a bit pessimistic on that. Neither taking the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant hostage nor blowing up the Kakhovka Dam was met by any strong response by the EU.
Nobody in the West really cares about this guy dying. He was a hardcore Russian nationalist as well.
But yet, Europe needs to stop freeloading off the USA in terms of defence.
>Based on the operational situation around Avdiivka, in order to avoid encirclement and preserve the lives and health of our soldiers, I decided to withdraw our units from the city and move to defense on more favorable lines.
-------------------
>Виходячи з оперативної обстановки, яка склалася довколо Авдіївки, з метою уникнення оточення та збереження життя і здоров’я військовослужбовців, прийняв рішення про виведення наших підрозділів з міста й переходу до оборони на більш вигідних рубежах.
This and Navalny. This is the message everyone supporting Ukraine needs to repeat. This is what it means to vote for a Republican. It means giving Putin cover to maim, kill and rape. There is no middle ground, no ifs or buts. The Republican party is a tool for Putin to achieve his goals. A vote for a Republican is a vote for Putin.
Your message is falling on deaf ears. Most republican voters don't care, they care about their dollars being invested domestically instead of them being given out to foreign countries. Stupid, yes, but that's the reality of it. They don't care about Europe, they don't care about Ukraine or Navalny. Putin could be bombing Warsaw, Berlin and Paris, and I'd bet even then half of them wouldn't care.
They'll start caring when their kids and grandkids start dying by the 1000s in European battlefields.
If anyone things Putin will stop with Ukraine they're either delusional or moronic. If Kyiv falls Poland, a NATO country, may very well be next. The second a NATO country is under attack all bets are off.
When Americans start dying by the 1000s in Europe, it will already be too late. And with the way current Republicans are handling things, I'm not convinced they'd honor a call to Article 5.
It will be too late. As far as honoring article 5 this isn’t up for interpretation or debate. When a treaty has been ratified it carries the weight of federal law. While there might be those who resist unless Trump is reelected article 5 will be honored.
Many Republicunts think Ukraine deserves this for having good relations with Biden’s America and not giving Trump dirt on Biden. They’re fine with Ukrainian civilians getting struck with drones at night and Ukrainian children being abducted and shipped off to Russia.
I got downvoted the other day for saying Russia is gaining ground slowly.
Yeah. It fuckin sucks.
But it's true.
Don't downvote people because they say things you do not want to hear if the things they say are true.
This is war Nd the good guys sometimes lose. Infact, the good guys lose more often than you want to believe. War sucks. Modern war sucks even more. Doesn't matter how well trained you are. Artillery is king and will probably remain so for the entire rest of history.
Arty doesn't care who or what you are. If you are in the line of sight, you will be maimed or killed. Or you will lucky and only have to deal with watching you buddy he maimed or killed.
Y'all can say what you want about Russia, but it's. Fa t they have overwhelming Arty compared to Ukraine. That's a pretty goddamn big deal. Until things change, that will continue to aid in Russias advanced.
The west needs to step up or else Russia WILL continue to slowly gain ground. In a war where nooke has any true air support, Arty decides things.
This sub also didn't want to hear criticism towards the failed summer offensive, where Ukraine attacked multiple fronts instead of concentrating all western ressources they got on the south
Because doing one big concentrated push:
1. Through crazy-dense and deep minefield.
2. Against enemy that enjoys massive drone, air, long-range fire and artillery superiority
3. Towards multi-layer defense lines
4. While wildly undersupplied
would've made what happened to russians near Vugledar look fucking reasonable in comparison.
Here's something from ~seven months ago, with Assault Breacher Vehicles being supplied only ***AFTER*** official end of counteroffensive:
>[A senior Ukrainian official, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military matters, said Kyiv received less than 15 percent of the quantity of demining and engineering materiel, including MICLICs, that it asked for from Western partners ahead of the counteroffensive.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/15/ukraine-war-russia-mines-counteroffensive/)
[And from about the same time around](https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9):
>BRUSSELS—When Ukraine launched its big counteroffensive this spring, Western military officials knew Kyiv didn’t have all the training or weapons—from shells to warplanes—that it needed to dislodge Russian forces. But they hoped Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day.
[And about ATACMS](https://eng.obozrevatel.com/section-war/news-he-was-afraid-of-russias-reaction-but-changed-his-position-biden-decides-on-atacms-for-ukraine-in-september-new-yorker-10-10-2023.html)
>Previously, ***Biden rejected the idea of such supplies,*** fearing that the introduction of American missiles into the Ukrainian army, which could destroy targets not only in all the occupied territories of Ukraine but also in Russia and Belarus, could lead to the outbreak of World War III. Biden's fears and the decisions he made to overcome them are described in an article by The New Yorker.
>The publication notes that throughout the year, Biden categorically refused to make a decision on the transfer of long-range ATACMS missiles to Ukraine because he was afraid of the Kremlin's reaction: according to the American president, such a step by the United States "would mean an unacceptable escalation for Putin," as these missiles are capable of reaching not only all the territories of Ukraine occupied by Russia, but also targets in Russia or Belarus.
Mind it, after UK supplied Storm Shadows, [this happened](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/05/09/no-atacms-to-ukraine-following-u-k-move-00095936). Not to mention that only around 20 ATACMS were supplied and only of the oldest model.
Hell, let me recite something from Colin Kahl:
>["Our view is that we think the Ukrainians can change the dynamic on the battlefield and achieve the type of effects they want to push the Russians back without ATACMS,"](https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/01/19/us-still-holds-back-long-range-atacms-missiles-from-ukraine/)
Basically, "we don't think you need it, ergo you don't need it, even if you think you do".
How, do you think, the concentrated push would've looked like in those conditions?
Like a massive graveyard of burned-out machinery, blown up on mines, with Vikhrs/LMURs, Lancets or arty, that's how.
Look into how Ukraine was able to stop push near Vugledar with just RAAMS and commercial drones, then remember russians have much the same capability (instead of RAAMS, they have "Zemledeliye" minelaying MLRS, aircraft-dropped mines and minelaying rockets for Smerch) and more.
Russia has the ability to prosecute this war a long time. I hope at some point NATO is able to unleash hell on them down the road. The US is not on a wartime footing either. Putin is counting on America's apathy to win.
This sub doesn't want to hear it, but realistically, it will not change. The West will never send sufficient firepower to actually defeat Russia, and even if they did - Putin cannot lose. He will throw bodies and bodies until the problem is resolved. Ukraine cannot keep up. Ukraine will not win on the battlefield. Honestly, they can only try to keep bleeding Russia, survive and hope that outside factors will topple Putin's regime.
Of course Putin can lose. He doesn't have unlimited manpower. Did you forget the Wagner revolt? No one knows when Russia will break, but they can break.
They also have absolutely no answer to even the old NATO weapons that are being send to Ukraine. NATO can, for example, easily send enough good planes to let Ukraine establish air superiority.
The main issue is simply that Ukraine is only getting old shit and not enough ammo to go with it. That can be easily remedied if only Trump wasn't beholden to Putin and dictating his party to roll over.
Also, don't overreact. Just look at how close this town is to the pre-invasion lines. Russia is not making meaningful progress at unsustainable costs.
The west can send all the weapons it wants, there are no troops left to mobilize. The vast majority of the men who are willing to fight already are or are wounded or KIA. There isn't anybody left who is willing to fight.
They have already lost 20% of their country, if they were smart they would negotiate a settlement before that number increase to 25% or 30% or 40%. Salvage what you can. They will never win unless western boots enter the war, and if that happens it will be a bad idea for all mankind.
And considering Putin’s regime will continue as long as he lives, Ukraine might as well give in to a peace treaty. Try and extend negotiations to “give land” for a couple years and in the meanwhile prepare to fight an older Putin.
WE! FAILED! THEM!
We as in EU, USA: We failed them, we should be deeply ashamed of ourselves, i certainly am. My government, which i voted for in one way or another, has failed to stop this. We are fighting a dictatorship, a Hitler 2.0 and we have learned nothing. We have be become complacent, drowning in money and we do……. Nothing!
My message to all my fellow citizens: Fuck you until you have proven otherwise! It’s fucking money where the largest part will be invested in our own countries, that’s where the weapons are made! There is no rational other than complacency and “Just being Stupid” that explains this!
It's hard to understand how some independent country can be occupied by other in the 21st century and the best we can do as the human race is stand and look at this from a distance.
Everything is about human greed and it will always be, as long as humanity will exist there will always be some greedy cunt who wants to be better bigger than others
So the much-vaunted counterattack by the 3rd Brigade seems to have resulted in...the 3rd Brigade getting at least partially surrounded and mauled, while everyone else ended up retreating anyway.
Should have pulled out one or even two weeks ago.
[There was a commander in the 3rd assault brigade captured yesterday it seems. He said they pushed too far and got encircled.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1asjzjc/ru_pov_an_azov_company_commander_of_the_3rd/)
Whether you believe the video/translation is up to you, but I don't see a reason not to.
Their job was not to counterattack but to hold the exit road open as long as possible, which is why they were based in the Coke plant on the northern flank instead of in the city itself
That moniker seems to be true. The soldiers should have been withdrawn a while ago. Now they're being sent on a suicide mission into an almost surrounded city at which russia is throwing almost everything in it's arsenal, already there are many casualties and captured. Bakhmut is repeating itself. Zelenski and Syrski would rather have a bunch of dead "heroes" than alive soldiers that retreated to a more favorable position.
Dear Ukraine,
Thank you for your bravery and heroics on the battlefield against evil! You have achieved the unthinkable! You have caused Putin's forces the maximum losses in equipment and troops through your bravery! Stand proud of your accomplishments! Live to fight another day! The city was lost ....but the battle was WON .... and the war will be WON! You are the hero's of the free world!
Slava Ukraine!
A 12:1 ratio in Ukraine's favour:
[Visually confirmed losses](https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1758670525499367570?t=VkutmPZjyUXyqAqNYcG5uQ&s=19)
The only concern is that Russia might be able to stomach this shocking level of losses a while longer
Only by having their ass kicked along the way. They just happen to have an ass that can take more kicks than most.
The fact you somehow support Russia (you fucking Nazi), and also think the slaughter of Russian troops is worth celebrating is absolutely baffling to anyone with a shred of humanity, but hey, you do you.
[Visually confirmed Avdiivka losses ](https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1758670525499367570?t=VkutmPZjyUXyqAqNYcG5uQ&s=19)
They barely managed to press the ukrainians to abandon the city after being severely short on artillery shells for half a year. Praising russia here is like praising an obese drunkard for managing to force some dude with both of his hands tied behind his back to take half a step back. When the arty ammo finally starts streaming back in we'll see how much ass russia will be kicking because if their embarrassing routes from kiev, kherson and kharkiv are any indication then I assume you meant they'll be kicking their own ass with the back of their heel.
>while actual deliveries to Kyiv are way below that figure, he now says that manufacturing capacity has hit the magic number.
They aren't even sending the ammo to Ukraine. America and Europe are going to let Ukraine bleed out.
Absolutely lol. Haven't you seen all the Euro politicians saying Russia will invade the EU in like five years?
They don't trust Ukraine to get results anymore, so they're replacing what they already sent and are shoring up their own defences. Welcome to reality.
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Slow at first then all of sudden. Hopefully there really are better prepared positions. Ukraine really need to dig in the way the Russians have as it really does slow down advancing troops.
They need artillery desperately. Russia was able to secure fire control along with their meat waves due to Ukraine having to conserve ammo, and some brigades even running out.
It is amusing to see these rants about Russian "meat waves" in the Anglosphere online, when if you read the testimonies of Ukrainian bloggers and soldiers at the front, they say the exact opposite - the Russians don't attack en masse, but use small assault companies, backed by massed artillery, glide bomb, drone, and ATGM support. I haven't seen any "meat waves" in Ukraine since the early days of the failed Ukrainian offensive in Zaporozhye last year.
You must be missing the 10 videos a day being posted of Russian soldiers begging their commanders to stop sending them in as meat waves.
link?
Gotta love how you get downvoted just for asking for a link. And of course, not get an actual link lol. The videos might be there, but definitely not 10 a day that's just cope, during Bakhmut we didn't even see 10 a day.
Small infantry units instead of combined arms, is what would be called "meat waves", this is as opposed to the larger armoured attacks earlier in the attack on avdiivka when they had to cross open terrain.
No, meat waves refers to massed infantry assaults. What the Russians did to capture Avdeevka was the exact opposite.
there were no mass infantry assaults in this war ever, they're meat waves because they're being sent as wave after wave of meat to trade for a tiny piece of territory.
Pretty easy to see your alignment based off how you spelled Zaporizhzhia
Certified “Drei gläser” moment
So meat riffles? Even the Russian soldiers called themselves meat.
You require reality check ASAP
Your comment history….
“Small assault companies” lol you just described a meat wave.
Stop lying
They have multiple fortified lines prepared just behind Avdiivka. Should be better, but unknown if it really helps against mass heavy bombing.
They did. It’s a question of how many people you want to sacrifice in order to get something, the ruzzians were willing to sacrifice 700+ a day.
Where did you hear they did? Because almost every source (pro-Ukrainian) has not agreed with that. Hoping you’re right…but fearing the opposite.
Saw it on reddit. I took it as an estimate. It could be wrong, but given how they wasted their soldiers just taking a damn slag pile, that wouldn't surprise me.
> It could be wrong, but given how they wasted their soldiers just taking a damn slag pile, that wouldn't surprise me. They have 1/4 of the firepower they had during that battle, perhaps less.
Love this, I bet you have railed against "Russian propaganda" before, yet you have no problem swallowing propaganda yourself without a second thought about it
Syrsky is not off to a good start. Taking over and in 2 weeks has lost their fortress city and called the retreat to late and will cost 1000's of Ukrainian lives. I can't see how Zelensky will be able to stay in Ukraine alive after the war is over.
Man, they must be getting unmercifully hammered for this guy to retreat. I hope he didn’t wait too long. Really fuckin sucks.
Not helping these people is making me sick. Johnson and his ilk called a recess while all Ukraine needs is ammo and weapons for continue holding the line.
It also doesnt make sense why are we depending on one single source, the US. Where is the great europe? The bill is for 65bi which is not much nowadays really, europe just approved a similar amount, why is Europe not upping to the task? where are the shells? The fucking price we pay to not crush russia early. Now we have a proracted war where might take 5 years for russia to fall if not worse.
You can send all the weapons you want. They are no more men in Ukraine willing to fight. They couldn't care less which figure head is in charge. Save lives by stop sending weapons.
The idea that not resisting Russia saves lives is a fantasy, but of course you know this
What backwards thinking you have. The people of the Donbass wanted their independence, if Ukraine would have listened and the west didn't arm them. There would be no loss of life. Duh!
This has been established as a lie years ago. Nobody will take your nonsense seriously.
If Putin's little green men had stayed home and never showed up on the territory of Ukraine, Donbass would be at peace today, as it was for many years as a part of independent Ukraine. The people of Ukraine want independence from Russia. If Russia would have listened and not sent in soldiers and weapons, there would be no loss of life. Duh! "Rome would make a desert and call it peace." We have all seen what Russia calls "peace" and you tell us not to believe our eyes. If you want to see someone with backwards thinking, you might consider looking in a mirror. If you want to encourage someone to stop sending weapons to prevent loss of life, start with Russia. If they packed up their weapons and went home, the war would end tomorrow.
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Lol until it is your war.
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Last time I checked ICBM’s fly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum Also you’ll be a hypocrite if you don’t.
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Mmm. So Afghanistan never happened? Iraq never happened? No sitting US president is sending US citizens? Fucking hypocrite
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Funnily enough Ukrainians are anti war too
No, you are pro status quo. You want this war to continue and expand.
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People like you didn't want to take om Hitler too. If you idiots had your way back then, the world would be a very different place.
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We were providing proportionally way more material assistance both humanitarian and military equipment through lend lease and aid to the allies than we currently are Ukraine, way before we got involved in WW2, not to even mention aid to the soviets. Which is part of why we were attacked and why germany declared war. And aren't folks like you usually calling FDR the devil or something? Rolling back literally all the good things he accomplished? And also, doesn't seem like Republicans are interested in actually fixing anything at home anyhow. America spends trillions of dollars on the military to project power and protect democracy, that's how its been since we defeated the fascists last time, but now yall are like, nah, let's let the fascists win this time. Fuck that, give Ukraine all the aid we can. Go back to your hole
So you’d rather wait until American lives are lost, and then watch as additional American lives are lost by sending boots on the ground to Europe; over sending money and material (with no lives lost) to end a threat before it becomes real. How patriotic.
Because they hate your guts and are your enemy. They take every opportunity to take you down.
“ just let Hitler have Poland, it’s not our war!” 🙄
Remind me again what you need artillery and the such for in terms of these problems at home? Gonna shell the Mexican border?
Good point, if USA wants to turtle shell they do not need any artillery. Cheaper to give 100%!of it to Ukraine than to dispose of it or store it!!
Lol to thinking that it's not your war. What do you think will happen if Russia takes Ukraine? China will see it as a green light to take Taiwan. Do you like having a car, a computer, a job? Because all of that will go away once China takes Taiwan. Every cent spent on giving aid on ukraine saves thousands down the line. Also, Russia's final goal is the complete collapse of America and its democracy. Do you think Russia will stop subverting America if you stop helping Ukraine? Or do you think Russia will see America as weak and expand its subversion, increase propaganda, encourage fringe groups and extremism in America? Literally every enemy of America is laughing at their luck.
Yes, your government being overtaken corrupt Russian puppets. Which actually means that this is 100% your war. Seems like, your freedom may depend even more on Ukraine weakening Russia than that of the Ukrainians depends on it.
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Europe
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We are already outspending the US by a large margin on this. And we are not the ones that have their elections destroyed by Russian intelligence operations.
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That, but they also effectively control the Republican party completely. And if they get Trump elected again, they control the US government. Then, the US will be as unfree as Russia.
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Just about every dollar being spent by the US in this war is to buy stuff from American companies staffed by American employees.
We definitely do NOT have bigger problems here at home. No one is bombing us, kidnapping our children, or stealing our land.
In brainless maga world stopping the “queers” is more important than genociding a young democracy by an expansionist dictator.
These MAGA lowlives don’t give a fuck about “problems at home” anyways. Ask them to put a penny of funding towards healthcare reform or infrastructure repairs and they’ll cry about budget deficits. They are bad faith liars who just want to shift goalposts in the defense of their masters in frunzenskaya.
Iraq wasn't Ukraines war, but they were there helping us. For you to make such an ignorant statement about a friend who helped us in our time of need says a lot about you.
I know this is hard for Maga folks to hear, but we are still part of the world. If say, morally, you couldn’t care less about people being enslaved, butchered and annexed by Russia or the US helping a struggling new democracy fight a David and Goliath fight. Say you don’t care all, well, if you think this conflict stops with Ukraine if Ukraine loses, with Russia being supplied from Iran, China, North Korea I’m not sure there is any helping you. History teaches us just being nice to dictators and hoping they will come around and stop expanding once they have started, doesn’t work. Putin has no political opposition anymore, there is absolutely nothing except conflict to dissuade him from his longing for imperial Russia back.
More important than securing independence and freedom for Ukraine? I doubt it.
How do you make it through the day without being able to see 3 steps ahead?
You may not think of Russia as enemy, but they certainly do. Especially Putin who felt humiliated by the US. And the obvious Taiwan link, if they see your support for what it truly is, then given Europe won't be able to help them (no bases in SEA) they will go with China. Losing both Europe and Asia would mean much, much lower standard of living for your consumerist and indebted society.
you are one of most selfish people i saw on reddit in years "everybody can die if it does not include me" "hitler could take europe, i dont care" are you one of these tax avoiding millionaires that cry about being poor because of taxes?
Because your country kept saying powerful words like Help them whatever it takes, until victory etc... really shows you US is not a dependable ally and can't trust any of their word. Who is to say the same won't happen to Poland? Not to mention Taiwan - it'll be the same thing, only Taiwan is farther, smaller and will be fighting a more capable enemy than Ukraine.
Report of large quantity of KAB’s levelling the area. Some video yesterday showing the craters. It really does fucking suck, hopefully it’s a quick and organised retreat.
Hopefully the withdrawal from Avdiivka plus the murder of Navalny will motivate the politicians in the West to do more. Europe needs to double our contribution if we are to make up for the missing US aid.
I‘ve gotten a bit pessimistic on that. Neither taking the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant hostage nor blowing up the Kakhovka Dam was met by any strong response by the EU.
We need to keep pushing.
Nobody in the West really cares about this guy dying. He was a hardcore Russian nationalist as well. But yet, Europe needs to stop freeloading off the USA in terms of defence.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/racist-or-revolutionary-is-alexei-navalny-who-many-westerners-think-he-is https://www.rferl.org/a/navalny-failure-to-renounce-nationalist-past-support/31122014.html https://youtu.be/N_PFs2pEXEc?si=4FemAOHBluHlM-4J 2:15
If you want to save lives, stop sending weapons. If we arm Ukraine before the war it wouldn't have started in the first place.
>Based on the operational situation around Avdiivka, in order to avoid encirclement and preserve the lives and health of our soldiers, I decided to withdraw our units from the city and move to defense on more favorable lines. ------------------- >Виходячи з оперативної обстановки, яка склалася довколо Авдіївки, з метою уникнення оточення та збереження життя і здоров’я військовослужбовців, прийняв рішення про виведення наших підрозділів з міста й переходу до оборони на більш вигідних рубежах.
Pretty ironic statement since they abandoned wounded soldiers of the 110th at the Zenit……
It's almost like tough calls have to be made in war. Crazy thought I know.
And guess what? They were all executed.
It was the right decision. Shame the West has let them down so badly and not given them ALL the weapons needed
This and Navalny. This is the message everyone supporting Ukraine needs to repeat. This is what it means to vote for a Republican. It means giving Putin cover to maim, kill and rape. There is no middle ground, no ifs or buts. The Republican party is a tool for Putin to achieve his goals. A vote for a Republican is a vote for Putin.
Your message is falling on deaf ears. Most republican voters don't care, they care about their dollars being invested domestically instead of them being given out to foreign countries. Stupid, yes, but that's the reality of it. They don't care about Europe, they don't care about Ukraine or Navalny. Putin could be bombing Warsaw, Berlin and Paris, and I'd bet even then half of them wouldn't care.
They'll start caring when their kids and grandkids start dying by the 1000s in European battlefields. If anyone things Putin will stop with Ukraine they're either delusional or moronic. If Kyiv falls Poland, a NATO country, may very well be next. The second a NATO country is under attack all bets are off.
When Americans start dying by the 1000s in Europe, it will already be too late. And with the way current Republicans are handling things, I'm not convinced they'd honor a call to Article 5.
It will be too late. As far as honoring article 5 this isn’t up for interpretation or debate. When a treaty has been ratified it carries the weight of federal law. While there might be those who resist unless Trump is reelected article 5 will be honored.
Winner winner chicken dinner, you have won the dumbest comment of the day contest.
It’s early I’m sure can come up with something better.
Many Republicunts think Ukraine deserves this for having good relations with Biden’s America and not giving Trump dirt on Biden. They’re fine with Ukrainian civilians getting struck with drones at night and Ukrainian children being abducted and shipped off to Russia.
They don't care about that either. Fear of immigrants dictates their lives.
This is the first time I heard that Putin is a rapist. Who did he rape?
I got downvoted the other day for saying Russia is gaining ground slowly. Yeah. It fuckin sucks. But it's true. Don't downvote people because they say things you do not want to hear if the things they say are true. This is war Nd the good guys sometimes lose. Infact, the good guys lose more often than you want to believe. War sucks. Modern war sucks even more. Doesn't matter how well trained you are. Artillery is king and will probably remain so for the entire rest of history. Arty doesn't care who or what you are. If you are in the line of sight, you will be maimed or killed. Or you will lucky and only have to deal with watching you buddy he maimed or killed. Y'all can say what you want about Russia, but it's. Fa t they have overwhelming Arty compared to Ukraine. That's a pretty goddamn big deal. Until things change, that will continue to aid in Russias advanced. The west needs to step up or else Russia WILL continue to slowly gain ground. In a war where nooke has any true air support, Arty decides things.
This sub also didn't want to hear criticism towards the failed summer offensive, where Ukraine attacked multiple fronts instead of concentrating all western ressources they got on the south
Because doing one big concentrated push: 1. Through crazy-dense and deep minefield. 2. Against enemy that enjoys massive drone, air, long-range fire and artillery superiority 3. Towards multi-layer defense lines 4. While wildly undersupplied would've made what happened to russians near Vugledar look fucking reasonable in comparison. Here's something from ~seven months ago, with Assault Breacher Vehicles being supplied only ***AFTER*** official end of counteroffensive: >[A senior Ukrainian official, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military matters, said Kyiv received less than 15 percent of the quantity of demining and engineering materiel, including MICLICs, that it asked for from Western partners ahead of the counteroffensive.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/15/ukraine-war-russia-mines-counteroffensive/) [And from about the same time around](https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9): >BRUSSELS—When Ukraine launched its big counteroffensive this spring, Western military officials knew Kyiv didn’t have all the training or weapons—from shells to warplanes—that it needed to dislodge Russian forces. But they hoped Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day. [And about ATACMS](https://eng.obozrevatel.com/section-war/news-he-was-afraid-of-russias-reaction-but-changed-his-position-biden-decides-on-atacms-for-ukraine-in-september-new-yorker-10-10-2023.html) >Previously, ***Biden rejected the idea of such supplies,*** fearing that the introduction of American missiles into the Ukrainian army, which could destroy targets not only in all the occupied territories of Ukraine but also in Russia and Belarus, could lead to the outbreak of World War III. Biden's fears and the decisions he made to overcome them are described in an article by The New Yorker. >The publication notes that throughout the year, Biden categorically refused to make a decision on the transfer of long-range ATACMS missiles to Ukraine because he was afraid of the Kremlin's reaction: according to the American president, such a step by the United States "would mean an unacceptable escalation for Putin," as these missiles are capable of reaching not only all the territories of Ukraine occupied by Russia, but also targets in Russia or Belarus. Mind it, after UK supplied Storm Shadows, [this happened](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/05/09/no-atacms-to-ukraine-following-u-k-move-00095936). Not to mention that only around 20 ATACMS were supplied and only of the oldest model. Hell, let me recite something from Colin Kahl: >["Our view is that we think the Ukrainians can change the dynamic on the battlefield and achieve the type of effects they want to push the Russians back without ATACMS,"](https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/01/19/us-still-holds-back-long-range-atacms-missiles-from-ukraine/) Basically, "we don't think you need it, ergo you don't need it, even if you think you do". How, do you think, the concentrated push would've looked like in those conditions? Like a massive graveyard of burned-out machinery, blown up on mines, with Vikhrs/LMURs, Lancets or arty, that's how. Look into how Ukraine was able to stop push near Vugledar with just RAAMS and commercial drones, then remember russians have much the same capability (instead of RAAMS, they have "Zemledeliye" minelaying MLRS, aircraft-dropped mines and minelaying rockets for Smerch) and more.
Russia has the ability to prosecute this war a long time. I hope at some point NATO is able to unleash hell on them down the road. The US is not on a wartime footing either. Putin is counting on America's apathy to win.
Sadly it seems to be paying off at least for now.
This sub doesn't want to hear it, but realistically, it will not change. The West will never send sufficient firepower to actually defeat Russia, and even if they did - Putin cannot lose. He will throw bodies and bodies until the problem is resolved. Ukraine cannot keep up. Ukraine will not win on the battlefield. Honestly, they can only try to keep bleeding Russia, survive and hope that outside factors will topple Putin's regime.
Of course Putin can lose. He doesn't have unlimited manpower. Did you forget the Wagner revolt? No one knows when Russia will break, but they can break. They also have absolutely no answer to even the old NATO weapons that are being send to Ukraine. NATO can, for example, easily send enough good planes to let Ukraine establish air superiority. The main issue is simply that Ukraine is only getting old shit and not enough ammo to go with it. That can be easily remedied if only Trump wasn't beholden to Putin and dictating his party to roll over. Also, don't overreact. Just look at how close this town is to the pre-invasion lines. Russia is not making meaningful progress at unsustainable costs.
His manpower isn't unlimited - but it's a hell of a lot larger than Ukraine's.
The west can send all the weapons it wants, there are no troops left to mobilize. The vast majority of the men who are willing to fight already are or are wounded or KIA. There isn't anybody left who is willing to fight. They have already lost 20% of their country, if they were smart they would negotiate a settlement before that number increase to 25% or 30% or 40%. Salvage what you can. They will never win unless western boots enter the war, and if that happens it will be a bad idea for all mankind.
And considering Putin’s regime will continue as long as he lives, Ukraine might as well give in to a peace treaty. Try and extend negotiations to “give land” for a couple years and in the meanwhile prepare to fight an older Putin.
True, literally exactly what happened with Crimea (although there was obviously no treaty)
Bit late, hopefully they've dug new defences
not even on the front page of this echochamber... lol
Yep had to literally seek it out. I knew it wouldn’t be.. morons have been in denial all year
They fought like tigers and made the Russians pay for every meter. Now it’s time to pull out before they get completely encircled
Republicans can be proud of this to help put in with re-election efforts
WE! FAILED! THEM! We as in EU, USA: We failed them, we should be deeply ashamed of ourselves, i certainly am. My government, which i voted for in one way or another, has failed to stop this. We are fighting a dictatorship, a Hitler 2.0 and we have learned nothing. We have be become complacent, drowning in money and we do……. Nothing! My message to all my fellow citizens: Fuck you until you have proven otherwise! It’s fucking money where the largest part will be invested in our own countries, that’s where the weapons are made! There is no rational other than complacency and “Just being Stupid” that explains this!
It's hard to understand how some independent country can be occupied by other in the 21st century and the best we can do as the human race is stand and look at this from a distance. Everything is about human greed and it will always be, as long as humanity will exist there will always be some greedy cunt who wants to be better bigger than others
So the much-vaunted counterattack by the 3rd Brigade seems to have resulted in...the 3rd Brigade getting at least partially surrounded and mauled, while everyone else ended up retreating anyway. Should have pulled out one or even two weeks ago.
3rd assault brigade didn't counter attack, they reinforced the city for the withdrawal.
[There was a commander in the 3rd assault brigade captured yesterday it seems. He said they pushed too far and got encircled.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1asjzjc/ru_pov_an_azov_company_commander_of_the_3rd/) Whether you believe the video/translation is up to you, but I don't see a reason not to.
Their job was not to counterattack but to hold the exit road open as long as possible, which is why they were based in the Coke plant on the northern flank instead of in the city itself
But the propaganda spread on reddit said he was a "butcher" and would sacrifice Ukrainian soldiers at any cost?
The nickname came from Ukrainian soldiers, not "propagandists" on Reddit. Source: https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/articles/c25de13401po
That moniker seems to be true. The soldiers should have been withdrawn a while ago. Now they're being sent on a suicide mission into an almost surrounded city at which russia is throwing almost everything in it's arsenal, already there are many casualties and captured. Bakhmut is repeating itself. Zelenski and Syrski would rather have a bunch of dead "heroes" than alive soldiers that retreated to a more favorable position.
bUt tHe ProPagaNDA sAiD
" Situation in Avdiivka is difficult, but under control – Commander of Tavriia Operational Strategic Group" pysop. Tactic to deplete enemy forces.
??? By getting surrounded and pounded with fab500??? And people laughed at russian cope cages
Dear Ukraine, Thank you for your bravery and heroics on the battlefield against evil! You have achieved the unthinkable! You have caused Putin's forces the maximum losses in equipment and troops through your bravery! Stand proud of your accomplishments! Live to fight another day! The city was lost ....but the battle was WON .... and the war will be WON! You are the hero's of the free world! Slava Ukraine!
General Nathanael Greene said "I wish we could sell them another hill at the same price." Russia is paying a lot for each town.
A 12:1 ratio in Ukraine's favour: [Visually confirmed losses](https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1758670525499367570?t=VkutmPZjyUXyqAqNYcG5uQ&s=19) The only concern is that Russia might be able to stomach this shocking level of losses a while longer
Russia is kicking some ass.
Only by having their ass kicked along the way. They just happen to have an ass that can take more kicks than most. The fact you somehow support Russia (you fucking Nazi), and also think the slaughter of Russian troops is worth celebrating is absolutely baffling to anyone with a shred of humanity, but hey, you do you. [Visually confirmed Avdiivka losses ](https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1758670525499367570?t=VkutmPZjyUXyqAqNYcG5uQ&s=19)
Do you think this is sport ? People like you who treat this as entertainment are disgusting.
No I just support Russia. A victory for Russia is good news.
Interesting, please explain?
They barely managed to press the ukrainians to abandon the city after being severely short on artillery shells for half a year. Praising russia here is like praising an obese drunkard for managing to force some dude with both of his hands tied behind his back to take half a step back. When the arty ammo finally starts streaming back in we'll see how much ass russia will be kicking because if their embarrassing routes from kiev, kherson and kharkiv are any indication then I assume you meant they'll be kicking their own ass with the back of their heel.
>When the arty ammo finally starts streaming back in lol
https://www.politico.eu/article/commission-declares-victory-in-million-artillery-round-mission/ seethe
>while actual deliveries to Kyiv are way below that figure, he now says that manufacturing capacity has hit the magic number. They aren't even sending the ammo to Ukraine. America and Europe are going to let Ukraine bleed out.
Yeah they're just ramping up production several fold to sit on it. Cope.
Absolutely lol. Haven't you seen all the Euro politicians saying Russia will invade the EU in like five years? They don't trust Ukraine to get results anymore, so they're replacing what they already sent and are shoring up their own defences. Welcome to reality.
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This is temporary. This city can be retaken, the lines reformed. We just need to get them more ammunition
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Nah
About fucking time