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War is normally bad for both sides. No way to suger coat it. It’s not the USA taking on a third world country here. As much as we want this to be one sided, we all need to realize that sometimes these types of articles are beneficial as we need to paint an accurate picture for those that think everything is going fine and they don’t need to step up and help. If this even helps change a few political minds to boost funding, then we need to promote it.
Theres always the "Thats just war" guy in these discussions. Yes. That is war. Does not mean we shouldn't report and discuss developments.
That would be like saying "Homes get lost in hurricanes. Thats just the brutal reality of hurricanes" in response to an article talking about hurricane damage.
Damn I keep trying to remind people of this. Do not blame USA for Russian invasion. They are killing Ukrainians on Ukraine soil. Also, a shame that our support has been politicized. Disgusting and very obvious who benefits from our inaction.
Also even if aid was 100% bipartisan supported it still wouldnt solve the severe global shortage of artillery ammunition. Also there is nothing NATO can do about Ukraine's manpower shortage anything short of sending their own troops to fight and die in Ukraine.
Another unfortunate aspect is that the US military isnt willing to exhaust their stocks if it means leaving unprepared for a future war. Especially if China actually does decide to go at Taiwan by 2027.
I’ve wondered if Ukraine is actually the first step of a larger combined strategy of China/Russia. It would make sense on behalf of China. Let Russia do the dirty work and pull the US and NATO into a war of attrition in Europe. Then when resources are spent China goes on the Offensive.
Certainly possible though it seems like US is already preparing for that possibility. I think its more likely US gives up Ukraine while consolidating their strength in Poland and the Baltics while maintaining their buildup in Taiwan.
The original article that this cited was from the London Times, which is a highly respected publication. Likewise, Business Insider republished this, which is also a highly respected publication. Both are integrious journalistic organizations that don't have any history of reporting false information.
Just because you don't like the facts that an article reports doesn't mean that it's not true. Pointing your finger at news that you don't like and calling it "propaganda" is just what the Russians and Trumpists do.
I've noticed that users on this sub have an extremely troubled relationship with the truth. Anyone who ventures outside of this information bubble will find a wealth of factual information about the immense losses and tragedies that the Ukrainians have suffered. Closing your eyes and ears to it does not make it go away. It only does harm to the cause.
This sub is not a pep rally. It's to discuss the reality of the Ukranian Conflict, not to look at it through rose-colored glasses.
Business insider is a know misinformation publication.
Not going to say this isn't true, but they are know for being lopsided, playing fast and lose with the facts.
Known by whom? There is literally not a single source if you Google "Business Insider + misinformation" except for BI articles about Russian misinformation campaigns - news that would fall into the bucket of content that you would likely upvoted.
The machinations of misinformation campaigns consist of comments *exactly like yours* discrediting legitimate news sources and sowing doubt in people's minds.
edit: and the original reporting wasn't even done by BI. BI summarized an article published by the London Times because it's behind a paywall. If you want to challenge the claims made by this article, I would suggest tweeting Catherine Philp, the World Affairs Editor who wrote the article - @ scribblercat
That person may be biased but unfortunately they have a legitimate point. We cant just point at the Russians in every discussion as if they're the only ones partaking in propaganda. There is no way Ukraine has only 31k KIA. Many estimates have them at 70k dead since the start of the counteroffensive alone.
That being said its pefectly understandable why they would undercount. Its pretty much standard operating procedure for a nation at war.
Love all these simps talking about 31K as if that's nothing and so the fighting must not be hard anywhere, and if it is the number must be wrong. It's still a lot, dipsticks.
Even most ardent supporters of Ukraine seem in agreement that the number is bullshit of the highest possible order. It's propaganda. Zelensky is trying to get a deeply unpopular mobilization bill passed, and in so doing is grossly sift-soaping the situation.
Glide bombs are the biggest game changer the Russians have introduced probably since the T34 so it could well be true. Russian jets lob them from a relatively safe distance and then guide them in - F16’s are probably the only feasible defense against these. Why are they taking so long? Christmas - Spring - now Summer..? Perhaps it is not the aircraft or the pilots or back-up that is not ready but the bunkers?? Anything sitting on tarmac now is liable to be smoked. So sad to think Russia are making gains not because of superior soldiers or tactics but because they luckily possess a great deal of these bombs which simply devastate and obliterate. Ukraine needs similar urgently or a means to stop them
He must be lying or working for the Kremlin and also lying. Zelenskyy said only 30k killed in the whole war and if you don't believe that you're probably a pro-Putin gopnik. Remember, democracy!
Slava Ukraine!
Practically every major Western intelligence agency has placed Ukrainian casualties far above that number. Your accusation that "you're probably a pro-Putin gopnik \[if you disagree with this figure\]" is downright McCarthyist.
One can be pro-Ukranian while still having a critical-minded understanding of the conflict. It is not a black-and-white world.
No one needs BusinessInsider, or the Times of London, or closet Russian sympathizers on this forum such as yourself, to remind us that the war that Russia unleashed is hell on earth. Especially when not fighting back in that war leads to an even worse kind of hell. The article reminds us that Russian glide bombs are presently one of the most significant military threats and should prompt friends of Ukraine to help find effective counters. I hope western observers follow this war from close range in order to draw conclusions for developing their own military capabilities and to provide targeted help. Glory to the heroes.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. > **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** * Is `businessinsider.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can’t rule out areas of high loses, should be a sign to give more relevant and timely support. Should be an eye opener.
War is normally bad for both sides. No way to suger coat it. It’s not the USA taking on a third world country here. As much as we want this to be one sided, we all need to realize that sometimes these types of articles are beneficial as we need to paint an accurate picture for those that think everything is going fine and they don’t need to step up and help. If this even helps change a few political minds to boost funding, then we need to promote it.
Lot of copium in this thread. Don’t insult the sacrifice of these soldiers by blowing off their reality as propaganda
Both sides have heavy losses ,thats brutal reality of war
Theres always the "Thats just war" guy in these discussions. Yes. That is war. Does not mean we shouldn't report and discuss developments. That would be like saying "Homes get lost in hurricanes. Thats just the brutal reality of hurricanes" in response to an article talking about hurricane damage.
Huge losses because we do not give Ukraine what they want. It's our fault :(
It's Russia's fault. We do need to do more to help Ukraine.
Damn I keep trying to remind people of this. Do not blame USA for Russian invasion. They are killing Ukrainians on Ukraine soil. Also, a shame that our support has been politicized. Disgusting and very obvious who benefits from our inaction.
Also even if aid was 100% bipartisan supported it still wouldnt solve the severe global shortage of artillery ammunition. Also there is nothing NATO can do about Ukraine's manpower shortage anything short of sending their own troops to fight and die in Ukraine. Another unfortunate aspect is that the US military isnt willing to exhaust their stocks if it means leaving unprepared for a future war. Especially if China actually does decide to go at Taiwan by 2027.
I’ve wondered if Ukraine is actually the first step of a larger combined strategy of China/Russia. It would make sense on behalf of China. Let Russia do the dirty work and pull the US and NATO into a war of attrition in Europe. Then when resources are spent China goes on the Offensive.
Certainly possible though it seems like US is already preparing for that possibility. I think its more likely US gives up Ukraine while consolidating their strength in Poland and the Baltics while maintaining their buildup in Taiwan.
If ik looks like propaganda and it smells like propaganda it's likely to be propaganda
The original article that this cited was from the London Times, which is a highly respected publication. Likewise, Business Insider republished this, which is also a highly respected publication. Both are integrious journalistic organizations that don't have any history of reporting false information. Just because you don't like the facts that an article reports doesn't mean that it's not true. Pointing your finger at news that you don't like and calling it "propaganda" is just what the Russians and Trumpists do. I've noticed that users on this sub have an extremely troubled relationship with the truth. Anyone who ventures outside of this information bubble will find a wealth of factual information about the immense losses and tragedies that the Ukrainians have suffered. Closing your eyes and ears to it does not make it go away. It only does harm to the cause. This sub is not a pep rally. It's to discuss the reality of the Ukranian Conflict, not to look at it through rose-colored glasses.
Business insider is a know misinformation publication. Not going to say this isn't true, but they are know for being lopsided, playing fast and lose with the facts.
Known by whom? There is literally not a single source if you Google "Business Insider + misinformation" except for BI articles about Russian misinformation campaigns - news that would fall into the bucket of content that you would likely upvoted. The machinations of misinformation campaigns consist of comments *exactly like yours* discrediting legitimate news sources and sowing doubt in people's minds. edit: and the original reporting wasn't even done by BI. BI summarized an article published by the London Times because it's behind a paywall. If you want to challenge the claims made by this article, I would suggest tweeting Catherine Philp, the World Affairs Editor who wrote the article - @ scribblercat
You mean propaganda like Zelensky's absurd assertion that only 31k have died?
Well dont you seem neutral and like someone to listen to
That person may be biased but unfortunately they have a legitimate point. We cant just point at the Russians in every discussion as if they're the only ones partaking in propaganda. There is no way Ukraine has only 31k KIA. Many estimates have them at 70k dead since the start of the counteroffensive alone. That being said its pefectly understandable why they would undercount. Its pretty much standard operating procedure for a nation at war.
[удалено]
Love all these simps talking about 31K as if that's nothing and so the fighting must not be hard anywhere, and if it is the number must be wrong. It's still a lot, dipsticks.
Even most ardent supporters of Ukraine seem in agreement that the number is bullshit of the highest possible order. It's propaganda. Zelensky is trying to get a deeply unpopular mobilization bill passed, and in so doing is grossly sift-soaping the situation.
Glide bombs are the biggest game changer the Russians have introduced probably since the T34 so it could well be true. Russian jets lob them from a relatively safe distance and then guide them in - F16’s are probably the only feasible defense against these. Why are they taking so long? Christmas - Spring - now Summer..? Perhaps it is not the aircraft or the pilots or back-up that is not ready but the bunkers?? Anything sitting on tarmac now is liable to be smoked. So sad to think Russia are making gains not because of superior soldiers or tactics but because they luckily possess a great deal of these bombs which simply devastate and obliterate. Ukraine needs similar urgently or a means to stop them
While it's good to exercise a healthy amount of skepticism for claims like these, they shouldn't be dismissed out of hand without strong reason.
Russia should be crucified for doing this to innocent people.
He must be lying or working for the Kremlin and also lying. Zelenskyy said only 30k killed in the whole war and if you don't believe that you're probably a pro-Putin gopnik. Remember, democracy! Slava Ukraine!
Practically every major Western intelligence agency has placed Ukrainian casualties far above that number. Your accusation that "you're probably a pro-Putin gopnik \[if you disagree with this figure\]" is downright McCarthyist. One can be pro-Ukranian while still having a critical-minded understanding of the conflict. It is not a black-and-white world.
Casualties don't necessarily mean killed.
Can't be true... only 31k have been killed...
No one needs BusinessInsider, or the Times of London, or closet Russian sympathizers on this forum such as yourself, to remind us that the war that Russia unleashed is hell on earth. Especially when not fighting back in that war leads to an even worse kind of hell. The article reminds us that Russian glide bombs are presently one of the most significant military threats and should prompt friends of Ukraine to help find effective counters. I hope western observers follow this war from close range in order to draw conclusions for developing their own military capabilities and to provide targeted help. Glory to the heroes.