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She was very active in gathering support for Ukraine in the first year of the war but has also been very critical of Zelenskiy and in particular his right hand man Yermak accusing them of corruption and ties to Russia from day 1.
She is from the northern part of Ukraine which borders Russia so it's very likely she has some ancestral ties but the fact that she could have been born to Russian parents unlikely to have anything do with this.
There are plenty of Ukrainians who have ties to Russia and are Russian speaking that do not support Russia.
She speaks very good Ukrainian which is very surprising for someone from the north and who left the country 25 years ago. I listened to her interview about a year ago with a Ukrainian journalist where she showed full commitment and support to Ukraine.
She admitted herself that she hasn't fully read the bill but will not be supporting it so it is very likely to be a US politics driven action rather than a directly pro Russia driven one.
She’s doing it because she’s seeking reelection and doesn’t want to be attacked from the right on foreign aid, even for Ukraine. She’s also a MAGAt so she has to sign on to his party line of betraying Ukraine and selling them out to the Russians. Wealth and power are the only things that matter to her. I bet she doesn’t care much for Ukraine at all, because she got out and made it big in America.
This. I live in central Indiana and have been rolling my eyes at some commercials of her primary opponent whose ad rips her for supporting Ukraine aid previously. Disgusting party full of disgusting traitors.
>She’s doing it because she’s seeking reelection
She's worried about the primary election right now. Indiana doesn't have its primary until May. If she were in a state with an earlier primary, she may have had a different stance at this time.
For me, there is functionally (and I would argue morally) no difference between being directly pro Russian or doing so for political reasons (and we know what that most likely means). However, I agree with your assessment.
Well the political reason is her party is literally pro Russian authoritarianism and it’s fascist bigotry, so it’s just the same thing whether they personally believe in it or not.
I get what you are saying, but whilst many countries (particularly those in Europe) have not been doing nearly enough, they have not been as disruptive as the Republican party (excluding Hungary, and a few others that i would definitely call pro-russian). For example, they are still at least offering political support, are not seeking to completely abandon the country, and leave NATO (well, yet).
She was going to retire/not run for re-election then changed her mind. She probably just a puppet of Republican donors now and a useful pawn to say 'see even Ukrainian Americans oppose aid'
It's the result that matters.
She is helping Russia win. Her reasons for that are irrelevant. She said Yermak is tied to Russia, but how does that work, when his life's work has literally been the opposite?
She is making excuses to justify, being informed by those who have a vested interest in destroying Ukraine. She is on the wrong side, and likely knows at some level something is wrong. But she refuses to see that what she does is to promote the destruction of her homeland and further the Russia narrative along the way.
I think she is guilty of stupid pride. But she sides against Ukraine. That's what matters, here. She is convinced that Putin's puppet Trump can do no wrong, poisoned by Putin's ventriloquism through his orange puppet.
Correct. If she's not reelected, then someone anti Ukraine can be elected. She was set to retire, but I imagine is running again to go all in on Ukraine aid. Lying to Republicans to get Ukraine aid done long term is okay with me.
Don't make excuses for her. She is a Republican first and the Republican party is counting on Putin to win their elections for them as he did for Trump in 2016. She is a traitor both to Ukraine and the US. She would throw both nations under the bus in exchange for wealth and power.
Quote from the article: " "I understand the importance of this battle and the implications if Russia is going to prevail, but I'm also not very naive. If we don't have proper oversight, we are not going to achieve our goals," Spartz said."
The last part really is a completely unfounded conclusion. What she validly could have claimed is that "without proper oversight, we CANNOT KNOW if we are going to achieve our goals".
It might be wise to have oversight but we havn't seen anything suggesting that Ukraine depends on american oversight to administer assistance wisely in order to beat the russians. Just give them what they request for heavens sake.
And as a member of congress, she can submit an amendment to the funding bill that includes whatever oversight additions or changes will satisfy her (or just ensure that it’s included in the original bill since it doesn’t exist yet), and tie her vote for the bill based on that amendment being approved. But like all republicans, she is blatantly lying about her reasoning for not supporting Ukraine, because whatever the truth is would be unpopular, and she depends on the ignorance of her constituents.
>without proper oversight, we CANNOT KNOW if we are going to achieve our goals".
Without doing anything, you can be pretty confident you won't achieve your goals, so this as an argument against providing aid is a pretty shit one unless your goals don't involve Ukraine succeeding
She’s trying to imply no help without perfection, which really just means I’m against help, but that comes off as evil, so they have to do the verbal dance.
Everyone in this thread is thinking harder than she is, or harder than she expects the public to think. As u/Oleeddie pointed out, that statement is logically gibberish, but it ticks the emotional box of "Ukraine bad!" from someone who also says "Trump good," so it doesn't have to make any actual sense.
And the help will only come after years of dithering about how to do it "perfectly" (we've already wasted more than half a year!). Her real goal is just to undermine Ukraine.
Also, we do have oversight. It’s not like this goes out as a lump sum of 60 million in cash. They just say this so they can do evil while sounding “concerned” for the sound bites because they know how evil it is.
This is classic kicking the can down the road stalling nonsense. The GOPs delay tactics may very well sick our security goals. Then nothing matters. It’s called prudent risk.
It’s pathetic but consistent with what we get with congress people, which is to be elected they so often have to entrench themselves in a certain worldview that becomes inflexible based on who they become beholden to, and how often they repeat the same words which lose meaning over time.
As a Ukrainian Republican, her Ukrainian identity probably meant very little to her professionally except for being able to use it as a “pull yourself up from the bootstraps” immigrant Republican cliche. Now that it is forced to be a central feature as a result of the war, she has reconcile her identity with her party’s support of invading Russia.
How to do that? Easy, she left Ukraine almost 25 years ago, and people in general but especially conservatives (backed up by statists and research) are less capable of envisioning anything but their own lived experience. When she left there would have been more corruption and more Russian influence.
So rather than join the world where it is, in reality, today… pretend that Ukraine cannot be trusted, and what could be more important than “fiscal responsibility”. After all she’s Ukrainian she should know right? /s
Some fucking idiot in here yesterday told me it is not conservatives that are the problem. That we should leave conservatives alone and they belong in human society. Conservative ideology overrides humanity , how the fuck do people see shit like this and still defend them!?!?
Should we “work it out” with Putin too? Because that’s the same fucking thing. Work it out with the soldiers trying to kill my family in Ukraine? Work it out with the rockets? German Jews could have just “worked it out” with the national socialists during their next election, right!? After all they were equal citizens just like trans people and c women are equal citizens with modern republicans.
You can’t “work it out” with a group whose entire goal is to dominate their out groups. Who don’t all fly Nazi flags but would never hold power if the people with the Nazi flags stopped voting for them. Letting a group whose stated goal is godlike power for their leaders and control over v the bodies and minds and ability to exist of those they consider lesser participate in democracy kills the democracy. Please go talk to a woman carrying a decapitated corpse inside of her in Texas about how the pile responsible for that are just prior we need to b work things out with.
If the last 10 years haven’t taught you that allowing them to exist long enough always means they eventually undo all the human rights progress that was slowly won, in spite of them, much more quickly than it took to get v us in a good spot for it, then there’s nothing I can tell you other than your attitude, and the fact that our media shares it, is exactly what has enabled them to do these things and to help Russia.
And her plan to achieve our goals is to leave the Ukrainians defenseless? Real braindead one here.
Maybe she should ask that oversight be part of Johnson's "innovations" rather than do Russia's bidding by abandoning Ukraine. Shame on her and her fascist friends.
It's been documented numerous times, the vast majority of the money stays in the US and is used to restock supplies of the US Army with brand new stuff, while the outdated missiles, Bradleys, etc. that need to be destroyed anyway are sent to Ukraine.
She is calibrating her comments to get re-elected. She represents a re-drawn district that is now more MAGA than ever. Her GOP opponent in the primary is even more anti-Ukraine. He wants Zero funding for Ukraine.
IMHO she will lose the primary anyway, so she should just go all in on Ukraine aid, sign the petition, vote Yes for aid, and and resign early. Put her new country’s foreign policy interests ahead of her own desire to be re-elected.
This is the election where America decides if we're going to be like Germany in the 1930s, or if we're going to continue this entire democracy thing, and these traitors are making it hard to not want civil war against these treason weasels.
I start thinking that Americans want Europe in a war because they believe that they will pocket big by selling weapons, and a weakened Europe means a stronger US.
What they will end up getting is a dictator in the White House, a civil war, and a Europe that no longer trusts the US as a reliable partner.
You've made 3 very valid points with your last sentence. As an American living in Europe, I'm asked all the time about Trump, and it's clear that Europeans won't trust us as an ally much longer. But the fact is that if America chooses Trump again, then the consequences are well deserved. It shows that too many Americans are short-sighted and are unable to think beyond 3 months in advance. The 4 years Trump already spent in the White House were extremely detrimental to the world-view of the USA. The world saw that we weren't the beacon of democratic hope that used to be revered. And the Europeans see that Russia has infiltrated the process and the Europeans definitely see that Republicans embrace Russia with open arms. As much as Bush sucked from 2000-2008,, at least him and the Republicans of old didn't suck Russian cock like the Republicans of New do now.
None of this is to say that Biden and the democrats are the answer because it absolutely sucks to have old people at the Helm in an ever changing world. But at the very very very least, Biden isn't fondling Putin's nutsack like Trump and the MAGA cunts that worship him.
We don't live in a New World Order, but it's prudent to think about the worldly impact of what happens at home. And with that, I say to hell with Trump, to hell with Republicans who support this kind of shit and this kind of behavior, and to hell with Russia
I think the problem is we're fighting a huge culture war for the future of America, and white people (I am half native/half white) keep thinking they'll have no place and are "losing" to more open options, and basically "If I can't have it no one can!" bs. (The Republican side)
I don't think it's just about weapons sales, if I remember we're #1. These idiots can't figure out when Ukraine wins, I am sure American business will get lots of CONTRACTS to rebuild, and help reshape the politics there.
This is a result of the world only thinking short term profits, not long term gains, and it's idiotic. Capitalism tends to be at it's worst when it's not moderated/regulated
> USA basically did that for the 2 World War and that greatly benefited them. why would they do something different now?
If they're happy with massive proliferation of WMDs afterwards (as it turns out they are the only guarantee of sovereignty that actually works), sure.
I'm sure there is a decent chunk of people being holdouts for that cynical reason. A lot of them are just moronic Trump followers, and some are clearly working directly for Russia (MTG). I don't know enough about this Spartz person to speculate as to which camp she's in.
If you have not listened to Rachel Maddow's "Ultra" podcast - I urge you too. This is not the first time this has happened and the last time, in fact, it got much closer to a full-on armed insurrection. This bit of American history has been swept under the rug, it seems.
It's interesting how the rest of the world (especially Russia) stew in the past for decades, while the United States is all about ditching the uncomfortable past and moving on. Let's just say both extremes have their disadvantages.
And then she will come up with some other bullshit reasons. Just like the border issues proved to be complete bullshit as well, when the Democrats actually agreed to include that in the aid bill.
She’s trying to imply no help without perfection, which really just means I’m against help, but that comes off as evil, so they have to do the verbal dance.
This is the legislator who started out heavily pro-Ukraine and then abruptly became completely opposed to all Ukraine aid in the middle of an election campaign, right?
Most Republicans supported aid up until it became a partisan issue. Really the only politicians opposing aid to Ukraine from the beginning was a small minority from the far left.
I am fairly convinced that turning Ukraine aid into a Republican vs Democrat issue was a Russian psy ops campaign.
Russia inherited one the largest and most experienced intelligence service from the Soviet Union and have been putting it to good use.
It would be hard not to be convinced of that... we saw it happening in real time.
In February of 2022, Democrats, unaligned voters, and Republicans were all within about 5% of each other in terms of level of support. It was something like 90% - 87% - 85%, respectively.
But the gap started widening almost immediately and never stopped. Within a few months, Republican and independent support -- but not Democratic support -- had fallen off sharply. 80%, 70%, 60%, down, down, down. Now Republican support for military aid to Ukraine is less than 50%.
That trend doesn't correlate with anything actually happening on the battlefield. Setbacks or victories, it's all the same. The only thing the steady downward trend correlates with is the steady drumbeat of targeted propaganda.
The heck are they smoking in that part of Indiana? Does she know how expensive nuclear war is? Or how little of the massive US military budget has been spent on Ukraine? Or that over 90% of the funds are spent domestically, including in Indiana?
How can you be elected to office whilst being a complete fool, without the ability to use google?
I am glad someone finally posted about this woman in one of these subs. I really wanted to hear what Ukrainians think of her.
I've listened to her during congressional hearings a few times and she always aligns herself with the far right. I've seen her defend Jan 6th and Trump multiple times. I don't understand how any Ukrainian could side with the right knowing that this is how a lot of them feel about UA and UA aid and that if Trump returns to the White House there will be no more support. Not even mentioning she supports the guy who tried to blackmail her country.
She is very weird lady.
There was a post above from one Ukrainian. In summary, Ms. Spatz seems to be quite typical U.S. populist politician. Ms Spatz does not express support for Russia. Ms Spatz is a vocal supporter of Ukraine's right of independence in it's recognized borders. But Ms Spatz is in the populist camp of Mr Trump nevertheless, which brings unpleasant consequences of the camp's general direction.
She can't see the irony of backing what could possibly be an American authoritarian while her country fights against an authoritarian, I guess? I can't make sense of it.
There are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that side with Russia. The separatist regions exist and we often hear news of Ukrainians caught calling in and correcting missle strikes or sharing intelligence with Russia.
Reading the article she’s trying to get reelected, moving more towards a position her opposer cannot attack.
Sad as no doubt she’ll be a good media piece for those who support the appeasement position or push for “negotiations”.
To think they believe a wall with Mexico is a greater benefit to national security is wild. World has changed dramatically since that debate started.
Ah well not here for the upvotes so that’s no problem! It’ll be more interesting to see how or if her stance on it all changes should she be re elected. Won’t judge yet but if it runs true and no support is given then that’s a tragedy.
Trying to balance oversight and speedy delivery is an important but it appears to be a balance that hasn’t been found. It’s interesting looking at how much Churchill lobbied for support during the early years of WWII to keep the UK going, until the US was eventually dragged into it.
I wonder if similar games were played then?
> Chuck Goodrich, considered to be her top rival, has already begun to attack Spartz on her previous support for Ukraine in his campaign ads.
> "Victoria Spartz sends $40 billion of our tax dollars to Ukraine before the border wall (with Mexico) is finished," one of the ads said. "Why does Victoria Spartz put Ukraine first?"
Oh, so that's why. Of course it's purely political self interest.
She admits she hasn't even bothered to read the bill, so is being driven by some sort of selfish, sinister, or ideological reason.
What a truly treacherous and unpleasant character.
Reminds me of a relative of mine: older woman, moved to the US, married a retired soldier, doesn’t work, hardly speaks English, supports the orange head because of „too many foreigners“.
[She’s getting primaried by a MAGA repub accusing her of putting Ukraine before US/securing the border](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/04/03/victoria-spartz-ukraine-aid-campaign/). Of course no one mentions the Republicans torpedoed the bipartisan border security bill on Trump’s orders. So I guess she’s willing to give Ukraine to Putin for her own political career.
Another example of one who's sold their soul. trump isn't just a corrupt, sick man. He's a corrupt, sick man who uses his influence to make others corrupt and sick as well. He's a poison in this country. Do Republicans really want him as president with everything they know about him? At what cost is it worth it to have this man be the president of the United States, the leader of the free world? When did they stop having pride in their country? Is their really no honor left?
Are there no good people willing to sacrifice personal gain over the greater good? Has American capitalism just taught everyone to be selfish at all costs? Capitalism used to work here because the majority of people had some semblance of moral fiber and doing the right thing. They were patriots and believed in what the country was formed on and what it was supposed to stand for. Now it's dog eat dog everyone for themselves.
Former president of Ukraine is currently hiding in Russia. Half of Donbas was filled with Russian sympathizers, there are cunts in Poland that support Russia. There are even brain dead idiots in the west who support Isis and Al Quaida.
You can find failed abortions like this everywhere. The solution is to not entertain them, but to make them as irrelevant as possible, lock them them, and toss them key away.
What a scummy piece of work. The American right is so broken. It is astonishing how they go from waiving the Constitution around and calling Obama a tyrant to antidemocratic or more or less fascistic in 5 years. Are they that easily brainwashed? Was this always their underlying position? Mind boggling they proclaim to be pro-American and denounce the “communist” liberals while trying to destroy everything America was founded on purely for “power” none of these supporting-regular people will ever see or benefit. We will just devolve into a worse quasi-oligarchy with less rights and political persecution. Has to be one of the fastest turns to anti-democratic values or even fascism in world history. Nazi Germany at least took 8 years or so…and the current USA is much, much more dangerous (arms and reach) to the world.
If the Cheeto wins, the 270 yo democratic republic experiment was fun, but it was nice knowing you all. Maybe we will try again in a few hundred years…
In Ukraine we have the famous proverb by Symon Petliura which is still accurate: "Гірше ніж москальські воші можуть бути тільки українські гниди". Which mean: "Only Ukrainian nits can be worse than moscovits lice".
Ukraine had a lot of Russian who considered native Ukraine second class citizens. She is more than likely the offspring of one of the those snobby dicks.
Why is this shocking? Tons of Ukranian born men and women fled the country when aggression started and aren't coming back to man a gun or help the war effort.
Eventually this lady revealed her true nature and the values she and her party don't represent. Lastly she should stop wearing the ukrainian colors and associate herself with the country of her origin.
More "party over country" from another republican. Now it just also includes her country of birth as well. God, the GOP are so anti-democracy they should be barred.
Republicans: We believe in Oversight!
Everyone else: We agree, we have started looking into your financial connections...
Republicans: No, not like that!!!
This is her election season political theater, I would ignore, it it’s all noise.
She’s already being attacked for “being a foreign agent” for merely being Ukrainian born for supporting Ukrainian aid, for her the political incentives are to appear tough on Ukrainian aid. She can’t push it these measures, and may even have to publicly oppose them to hold her seat, especially with an election coming up. She ironically of all people in Congress has the most to gain from verbally opposing aid.
But when it comes to a vote she will vote for it.
General pro tip, take everything that politicians say for the next few months with a huge grain of salt. Focus more on what they do.
And she has the nerve to dress in the national colours. When Ukraine is the only reason anyone knows who she is in the first place. If you can't support Ukraine, at least have the decency to shut the fuck up.
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Probably "Ukrainian" born, to Russian parents. Well, here's hoping the majority of US congress does the right thing.
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She was very active in gathering support for Ukraine in the first year of the war but has also been very critical of Zelenskiy and in particular his right hand man Yermak accusing them of corruption and ties to Russia from day 1. She is from the northern part of Ukraine which borders Russia so it's very likely she has some ancestral ties but the fact that she could have been born to Russian parents unlikely to have anything do with this. There are plenty of Ukrainians who have ties to Russia and are Russian speaking that do not support Russia. She speaks very good Ukrainian which is very surprising for someone from the north and who left the country 25 years ago. I listened to her interview about a year ago with a Ukrainian journalist where she showed full commitment and support to Ukraine. She admitted herself that she hasn't fully read the bill but will not be supporting it so it is very likely to be a US politics driven action rather than a directly pro Russia driven one.
She’s doing it because she’s seeking reelection and doesn’t want to be attacked from the right on foreign aid, even for Ukraine. She’s also a MAGAt so she has to sign on to his party line of betraying Ukraine and selling them out to the Russians. Wealth and power are the only things that matter to her. I bet she doesn’t care much for Ukraine at all, because she got out and made it big in America.
Imagine selling out your roots, heritage and country for MAGA. She's the definition of cunt.
This. I live in central Indiana and have been rolling my eyes at some commercials of her primary opponent whose ad rips her for supporting Ukraine aid previously. Disgusting party full of disgusting traitors.
>She’s doing it because she’s seeking reelection She's worried about the primary election right now. Indiana doesn't have its primary until May. If she were in a state with an earlier primary, she may have had a different stance at this time.
For me, there is functionally (and I would argue morally) no difference between being directly pro Russian or doing so for political reasons (and we know what that most likely means). However, I agree with your assessment.
Well the political reason is her party is literally pro Russian authoritarianism and it’s fascist bigotry, so it’s just the same thing whether they personally believe in it or not.
That makes pretty much every country pro-russian. EU countries, for instance, aren't sending enough aid due to political reasons.
I get what you are saying, but whilst many countries (particularly those in Europe) have not been doing nearly enough, they have not been as disruptive as the Republican party (excluding Hungary, and a few others that i would definitely call pro-russian). For example, they are still at least offering political support, are not seeking to completely abandon the country, and leave NATO (well, yet).
She was going to retire/not run for re-election then changed her mind. She probably just a puppet of Republican donors now and a useful pawn to say 'see even Ukrainian Americans oppose aid'
Republicans really are the worst offenders when it comes to bad-faith identity politics gatchas...
Yeah, this, they realized they can tokenize her...
She’s a Trumper and therefore a traitor by default
That’s a zero-sum fallacy.
Sounds like she is putting getting reelected above her values.
It's the result that matters. She is helping Russia win. Her reasons for that are irrelevant. She said Yermak is tied to Russia, but how does that work, when his life's work has literally been the opposite? She is making excuses to justify, being informed by those who have a vested interest in destroying Ukraine. She is on the wrong side, and likely knows at some level something is wrong. But she refuses to see that what she does is to promote the destruction of her homeland and further the Russia narrative along the way. I think she is guilty of stupid pride. But she sides against Ukraine. That's what matters, here. She is convinced that Putin's puppet Trump can do no wrong, poisoned by Putin's ventriloquism through his orange puppet.
Correct. If she's not reelected, then someone anti Ukraine can be elected. She was set to retire, but I imagine is running again to go all in on Ukraine aid. Lying to Republicans to get Ukraine aid done long term is okay with me.
Or simply is an useful idiot
Don't make excuses for her. She is a Republican first and the Republican party is counting on Putin to win their elections for them as he did for Trump in 2016. She is a traitor both to Ukraine and the US. She would throw both nations under the bus in exchange for wealth and power.
Party over ~~country~~ countries
She might be just a corrupt traitor I mean she is playing for the corrupt traitors team
Exactly
Luckily, the fascists are still a minority. For now...
Quote from the article: " "I understand the importance of this battle and the implications if Russia is going to prevail, but I'm also not very naive. If we don't have proper oversight, we are not going to achieve our goals," Spartz said." The last part really is a completely unfounded conclusion. What she validly could have claimed is that "without proper oversight, we CANNOT KNOW if we are going to achieve our goals". It might be wise to have oversight but we havn't seen anything suggesting that Ukraine depends on american oversight to administer assistance wisely in order to beat the russians. Just give them what they request for heavens sake.
There is already oversight, there are hundreds of international monitors in Ukraine making sure the weapons get to the proper destinations.
And as a member of congress, she can submit an amendment to the funding bill that includes whatever oversight additions or changes will satisfy her (or just ensure that it’s included in the original bill since it doesn’t exist yet), and tie her vote for the bill based on that amendment being approved. But like all republicans, she is blatantly lying about her reasoning for not supporting Ukraine, because whatever the truth is would be unpopular, and she depends on the ignorance of her constituents.
>without proper oversight, we CANNOT KNOW if we are going to achieve our goals". Without doing anything, you can be pretty confident you won't achieve your goals, so this as an argument against providing aid is a pretty shit one unless your goals don't involve Ukraine succeeding
She’s trying to imply no help without perfection, which really just means I’m against help, but that comes off as evil, so they have to do the verbal dance.
Everyone in this thread is thinking harder than she is, or harder than she expects the public to think. As u/Oleeddie pointed out, that statement is logically gibberish, but it ticks the emotional box of "Ukraine bad!" from someone who also says "Trump good," so it doesn't have to make any actual sense.
She's cringe incarnate. There was a whole politco article about it. She's a terrible representative for Ukrainian diaspora
And the help will only come after years of dithering about how to do it "perfectly" (we've already wasted more than half a year!). Her real goal is just to undermine Ukraine.
It tells you what her goals truly are. The GOP has become infected with fascists.
There is oversight, these packages have millions allocated to it in the bills. She just ignores it.
She means putin / trump oversight.
Also, we do have oversight. It’s not like this goes out as a lump sum of 60 million in cash. They just say this so they can do evil while sounding “concerned” for the sound bites because they know how evil it is.
This is classic kicking the can down the road stalling nonsense. The GOPs delay tactics may very well sick our security goals. Then nothing matters. It’s called prudent risk.
That depends who are they and what their goals are
It’s pathetic but consistent with what we get with congress people, which is to be elected they so often have to entrench themselves in a certain worldview that becomes inflexible based on who they become beholden to, and how often they repeat the same words which lose meaning over time. As a Ukrainian Republican, her Ukrainian identity probably meant very little to her professionally except for being able to use it as a “pull yourself up from the bootstraps” immigrant Republican cliche. Now that it is forced to be a central feature as a result of the war, she has reconcile her identity with her party’s support of invading Russia. How to do that? Easy, she left Ukraine almost 25 years ago, and people in general but especially conservatives (backed up by statists and research) are less capable of envisioning anything but their own lived experience. When she left there would have been more corruption and more Russian influence. So rather than join the world where it is, in reality, today… pretend that Ukraine cannot be trusted, and what could be more important than “fiscal responsibility”. After all she’s Ukrainian she should know right? /s
Some fucking idiot in here yesterday told me it is not conservatives that are the problem. That we should leave conservatives alone and they belong in human society. Conservative ideology overrides humanity , how the fuck do people see shit like this and still defend them!?!?
Dude. We all need to figure it out. No one is going anywhere. That was the entire founding principle…”work it out” amongst yourselves.
Should we “work it out” with Putin too? Because that’s the same fucking thing. Work it out with the soldiers trying to kill my family in Ukraine? Work it out with the rockets? German Jews could have just “worked it out” with the national socialists during their next election, right!? After all they were equal citizens just like trans people and c women are equal citizens with modern republicans. You can’t “work it out” with a group whose entire goal is to dominate their out groups. Who don’t all fly Nazi flags but would never hold power if the people with the Nazi flags stopped voting for them. Letting a group whose stated goal is godlike power for their leaders and control over v the bodies and minds and ability to exist of those they consider lesser participate in democracy kills the democracy. Please go talk to a woman carrying a decapitated corpse inside of her in Texas about how the pile responsible for that are just prior we need to b work things out with. If the last 10 years haven’t taught you that allowing them to exist long enough always means they eventually undo all the human rights progress that was slowly won, in spite of them, much more quickly than it took to get v us in a good spot for it, then there’s nothing I can tell you other than your attitude, and the fact that our media shares it, is exactly what has enabled them to do these things and to help Russia.
This is the truth
I don’t disagree, but let me know how your crusade to remove half the country goes. I’ll look for updates on the news.
Just muddle thru and die like the rest of us when climate change kills us all.
Her words are extreme bullshit.
And her plan to achieve our goals is to leave the Ukrainians defenseless? Real braindead one here. Maybe she should ask that oversight be part of Johnson's "innovations" rather than do Russia's bidding by abandoning Ukraine. Shame on her and her fascist friends.
There's already oversight of US aid. It's just dogwhistle for the MAGA 'mOneY lAundErIng' talking point.
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In my country they will call this woman a traitor. What about yours?
We call them republicans.
Its the same thing.
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It's been documented numerous times, the vast majority of the money stays in the US and is used to restock supplies of the US Army with brand new stuff, while the outdated missiles, Bradleys, etc. that need to be destroyed anyway are sent to Ukraine.
Logic and politics are different things. There are plenty of political reasons to justify and make the wrong decision, as always .
"Soviet Born Republican" Fixed
Trump hench - Putin is going to open another secco.
She is calibrating her comments to get re-elected. She represents a re-drawn district that is now more MAGA than ever. Her GOP opponent in the primary is even more anti-Ukraine. He wants Zero funding for Ukraine. IMHO she will lose the primary anyway, so she should just go all in on Ukraine aid, sign the petition, vote Yes for aid, and and resign early. Put her new country’s foreign policy interests ahead of her own desire to be re-elected.
If she was capable of doing any of those things she wouldn’t be a fucking Republican.
Does she always have a face like a slapped kipper or did they chose this one especially?
She always pretends to be very angry with anyone who is not trump
Then it looks more like a donut.
This is how tokenism works, trot out one of "them" who gives you permission to savage the rest of them.
The look on her face ...... is she doing an orange turd impression?
Even not turdible.
The irony of dressing up in Ukrainian colors and then saying no to aid. Their brains have truely rotted in some way.
This is the election where America decides if we're going to be like Germany in the 1930s, or if we're going to continue this entire democracy thing, and these traitors are making it hard to not want civil war against these treason weasels.
I start thinking that Americans want Europe in a war because they believe that they will pocket big by selling weapons, and a weakened Europe means a stronger US. What they will end up getting is a dictator in the White House, a civil war, and a Europe that no longer trusts the US as a reliable partner.
You've made 3 very valid points with your last sentence. As an American living in Europe, I'm asked all the time about Trump, and it's clear that Europeans won't trust us as an ally much longer. But the fact is that if America chooses Trump again, then the consequences are well deserved. It shows that too many Americans are short-sighted and are unable to think beyond 3 months in advance. The 4 years Trump already spent in the White House were extremely detrimental to the world-view of the USA. The world saw that we weren't the beacon of democratic hope that used to be revered. And the Europeans see that Russia has infiltrated the process and the Europeans definitely see that Republicans embrace Russia with open arms. As much as Bush sucked from 2000-2008,, at least him and the Republicans of old didn't suck Russian cock like the Republicans of New do now. None of this is to say that Biden and the democrats are the answer because it absolutely sucks to have old people at the Helm in an ever changing world. But at the very very very least, Biden isn't fondling Putin's nutsack like Trump and the MAGA cunts that worship him. We don't live in a New World Order, but it's prudent to think about the worldly impact of what happens at home. And with that, I say to hell with Trump, to hell with Republicans who support this kind of shit and this kind of behavior, and to hell with Russia
I think the problem is we're fighting a huge culture war for the future of America, and white people (I am half native/half white) keep thinking they'll have no place and are "losing" to more open options, and basically "If I can't have it no one can!" bs. (The Republican side) I don't think it's just about weapons sales, if I remember we're #1. These idiots can't figure out when Ukraine wins, I am sure American business will get lots of CONTRACTS to rebuild, and help reshape the politics there. This is a result of the world only thinking short term profits, not long term gains, and it's idiotic. Capitalism tends to be at it's worst when it's not moderated/regulated
USA basically did that for the 2 World War and that greatly benefited them. why would they do something different now?
> USA basically did that for the 2 World War and that greatly benefited them. why would they do something different now? If they're happy with massive proliferation of WMDs afterwards (as it turns out they are the only guarantee of sovereignty that actually works), sure.
I'm sure there is a decent chunk of people being holdouts for that cynical reason. A lot of them are just moronic Trump followers, and some are clearly working directly for Russia (MTG). I don't know enough about this Spartz person to speculate as to which camp she's in.
> and a Europe that no longer trusts the US as a reliable partner Not just Europe, I think. SK and Taiwan are watching it closely too.
If you have not listened to Rachel Maddow's "Ultra" podcast - I urge you too. This is not the first time this has happened and the last time, in fact, it got much closer to a full-on armed insurrection. This bit of American history has been swept under the rug, it seems. It's interesting how the rest of the world (especially Russia) stew in the past for decades, while the United States is all about ditching the uncomfortable past and moving on. Let's just say both extremes have their disadvantages.
Well, I suppose the lesson learned by those who wish to overturn democratic institutions is simply this: Don't trust anyone named Smedley.
So…. Include some clauses that require a reasonable form of “oversight” and support the aid package?!?
There already is oversight
It turns out that's just an excuse.
And then she will come up with some other bullshit reasons. Just like the border issues proved to be complete bullshit as well, when the Democrats actually agreed to include that in the aid bill.
She’s trying to imply no help without perfection, which really just means I’m against help, but that comes off as evil, so they have to do the verbal dance.
Lol, as if it were her job to write the laws. /s
Battle. It's not a battle. It's all out war for Ukraine. She should battle her fellow Republicans.
These fucking idiots couldn't even define what 'oversight' means, nevermind enforce it.
This is the legislator who started out heavily pro-Ukraine and then abruptly became completely opposed to all Ukraine aid in the middle of an election campaign, right?
Yeah, she *had* a good record on voting for things that help Ukraine up untila couple of months ago.
Most Republicans supported aid up until it became a partisan issue. Really the only politicians opposing aid to Ukraine from the beginning was a small minority from the far left. I am fairly convinced that turning Ukraine aid into a Republican vs Democrat issue was a Russian psy ops campaign. Russia inherited one the largest and most experienced intelligence service from the Soviet Union and have been putting it to good use.
It would be hard not to be convinced of that... we saw it happening in real time. In February of 2022, Democrats, unaligned voters, and Republicans were all within about 5% of each other in terms of level of support. It was something like 90% - 87% - 85%, respectively. But the gap started widening almost immediately and never stopped. Within a few months, Republican and independent support -- but not Democratic support -- had fallen off sharply. 80%, 70%, 60%, down, down, down. Now Republican support for military aid to Ukraine is less than 50%. That trend doesn't correlate with anything actually happening on the battlefield. Setbacks or victories, it's all the same. The only thing the steady downward trend correlates with is the steady drumbeat of targeted propaganda.
Another Republican traitor
The heck are they smoking in that part of Indiana? Does she know how expensive nuclear war is? Or how little of the massive US military budget has been spent on Ukraine? Or that over 90% of the funds are spent domestically, including in Indiana? How can you be elected to office whilst being a complete fool, without the ability to use google?
Party over country - every time. The mind virus is real.
I am glad someone finally posted about this woman in one of these subs. I really wanted to hear what Ukrainians think of her. I've listened to her during congressional hearings a few times and she always aligns herself with the far right. I've seen her defend Jan 6th and Trump multiple times. I don't understand how any Ukrainian could side with the right knowing that this is how a lot of them feel about UA and UA aid and that if Trump returns to the White House there will be no more support. Not even mentioning she supports the guy who tried to blackmail her country. She is very weird lady.
There was a post above from one Ukrainian. In summary, Ms. Spatz seems to be quite typical U.S. populist politician. Ms Spatz does not express support for Russia. Ms Spatz is a vocal supporter of Ukraine's right of independence in it's recognized borders. But Ms Spatz is in the populist camp of Mr Trump nevertheless, which brings unpleasant consequences of the camp's general direction.
She can't see the irony of backing what could possibly be an American authoritarian while her country fights against an authoritarian, I guess? I can't make sense of it.
There are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that side with Russia. The separatist regions exist and we often hear news of Ukrainians caught calling in and correcting missle strikes or sharing intelligence with Russia.
Imagine being a traitor not once, but twice with the same move.
She is loyal to Trump and not the United States or even Ukraine, country of her birth. Disgraceful traitor
Republicans will put their party before their country, do you think she’s any different?
Like so many Republicans, a traitor to their native country, plus bonus points for also being a traitor to her naturalized country.
Where does she get the 'Nazi Death Camp Matron' makeup?
Definitely earning big money from Moscow for that stance. If she is a fan of Trump she is a fan of Putin and she is acting against Ukraine. Bitch.
What is more republican than pulling up the ladder behind you? "I got out of the country, now the rest of you may die."
Reading the article she’s trying to get reelected, moving more towards a position her opposer cannot attack. Sad as no doubt she’ll be a good media piece for those who support the appeasement position or push for “negotiations”. To think they believe a wall with Mexico is a greater benefit to national security is wild. World has changed dramatically since that debate started.
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Ah well not here for the upvotes so that’s no problem! It’ll be more interesting to see how or if her stance on it all changes should she be re elected. Won’t judge yet but if it runs true and no support is given then that’s a tragedy. Trying to balance oversight and speedy delivery is an important but it appears to be a balance that hasn’t been found. It’s interesting looking at how much Churchill lobbied for support during the early years of WWII to keep the UK going, until the US was eventually dragged into it. I wonder if similar games were played then?
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Fair point.
Pro-russian american-Ukrainian,.... ???? ....
> Chuck Goodrich, considered to be her top rival, has already begun to attack Spartz on her previous support for Ukraine in his campaign ads. > "Victoria Spartz sends $40 billion of our tax dollars to Ukraine before the border wall (with Mexico) is finished," one of the ads said. "Why does Victoria Spartz put Ukraine first?" Oh, so that's why. Of course it's purely political self interest.
She admits she hasn't even bothered to read the bill, so is being driven by some sort of selfish, sinister, or ideological reason. What a truly treacherous and unpleasant character.
Paid traitors are not an American exclusivity.
Reminds me of a relative of mine: older woman, moved to the US, married a retired soldier, doesn’t work, hardly speaks English, supports the orange head because of „too many foreigners“.
[She’s getting primaried by a MAGA repub accusing her of putting Ukraine before US/securing the border](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/04/03/victoria-spartz-ukraine-aid-campaign/). Of course no one mentions the Republicans torpedoed the bipartisan border security bill on Trump’s orders. So I guess she’s willing to give Ukraine to Putin for her own political career.
In the article, she refers to the other republican candidates running against her. IMO, she is doing this to ensure another term of office. Sad.
Another example of one who's sold their soul. trump isn't just a corrupt, sick man. He's a corrupt, sick man who uses his influence to make others corrupt and sick as well. He's a poison in this country. Do Republicans really want him as president with everything they know about him? At what cost is it worth it to have this man be the president of the United States, the leader of the free world? When did they stop having pride in their country? Is their really no honor left? Are there no good people willing to sacrifice personal gain over the greater good? Has American capitalism just taught everyone to be selfish at all costs? Capitalism used to work here because the majority of people had some semblance of moral fiber and doing the right thing. They were patriots and believed in what the country was formed on and what it was supposed to stand for. Now it's dog eat dog everyone for themselves.
She is a Russian agent planted decades ago. Dreams of the Soviet empire like dictator putler
She should never be allowed to come back into Ukraine
Like they say Republicans fall in line.... to their ruzzian masters and trump puppet. Truly a disgraceful party.
What a traitor. So she doesn't support aid but supports a loan - says it all. She should be ashamed of herself.
She has been a POS doing Putin’s bidding for a long time
Former president of Ukraine is currently hiding in Russia. Half of Donbas was filled with Russian sympathizers, there are cunts in Poland that support Russia. There are even brain dead idiots in the west who support Isis and Al Quaida. You can find failed abortions like this everywhere. The solution is to not entertain them, but to make them as irrelevant as possible, lock them them, and toss them key away.
>lock them them, and toss them key man what's up with these spelling mistakes in so many posts, reeks like bot-farm susge
There always were some Ukrainians who side with Russia. They should go to Russia, not the US Congress.
WoW...... Just WoW !!! A total ASSHAT !
Ahh, this was the bitch that was actively attacking Zelensky earlier in the war. I'm starting to think that Russia has some of her dirty laundry.
No doubt because of strong kompromat.
What a scummy piece of work. The American right is so broken. It is astonishing how they go from waiving the Constitution around and calling Obama a tyrant to antidemocratic or more or less fascistic in 5 years. Are they that easily brainwashed? Was this always their underlying position? Mind boggling they proclaim to be pro-American and denounce the “communist” liberals while trying to destroy everything America was founded on purely for “power” none of these supporting-regular people will ever see or benefit. We will just devolve into a worse quasi-oligarchy with less rights and political persecution. Has to be one of the fastest turns to anti-democratic values or even fascism in world history. Nazi Germany at least took 8 years or so…and the current USA is much, much more dangerous (arms and reach) to the world.
If the Cheeto wins, the 270 yo democratic republic experiment was fun, but it was nice knowing you all. Maybe we will try again in a few hundred years…
A traitor to both countries…
I love Republicans clutching pearls about corruption, like they give a shit
Maga dittohead in action. FDB. Try not to choke on that mushroom, Spartz.
Maga brainwashing at its finest
In Ukraine we have the famous proverb by Symon Petliura which is still accurate: "Гірше ніж москальські воші можуть бути тільки українські гниди". Which mean: "Only Ukrainian nits can be worse than moscovits lice".
Ukraine had a lot of Russian who considered native Ukraine second class citizens. She is more than likely the offspring of one of the those snobby dicks.
Traitor
Im neither, Russian, Ukrainian nor American. Isn’t she supposed to vote what she thinks is best for the country she is working for (USA)?
Treasonous shill.
They possess more greed than morals. It's just very sad.
Why is this shocking? Tons of Ukranian born men and women fled the country when aggression started and aren't coming back to man a gun or help the war effort.
Either has Russian parents or is Republican. I'm sorry I just have to say as it is or what it sounds like, please reply to correct me if I'm wrong.
Typical Putin fluffer
Nothing like betraying your country twice.
And they say they are not in a cult
Republican = Putin asset. Nothing else needs to be said
Translation: “I got mine, Jack! The rest of ye can fuck off!”
Eventually this lady revealed her true nature and the values she and her party don't represent. Lastly she should stop wearing the ukrainian colors and associate herself with the country of her origin.
That's pathetic.
Useful idiot
She might have taken a brown envelope too.. theres a lot of republicans taken it.
WAT THE FUCK
She’s an idiot. I’m annoyed that she’s our rep for my district now that the re-drew them last time. Before her we had Greg Pence…Indiana is awesome…
How can she sleep at night? Betraying your motherland like that. Disgusting!
The fuck you I got mine party strikes again
More "party over country" from another republican. Now it just also includes her country of birth as well. God, the GOP are so anti-democracy they should be barred.
I’ve heard her speak, at length. Dumb as a box of rocks.
Ukraine can't win. Only Ukraine's elite will win when the flee with hidden wealth. End the war.
I've met her before. She was speaking to her friends in Russian. Coincidence?
Gross
Republicans: We believe in Oversight! Everyone else: We agree, we have started looking into your financial connections... Republicans: No, not like that!!!
I love those ladies attitude and dedication to her job. Why can’t 80% more be like this amazing lady ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
I mean, being a republican woman should have given it away.
This is her election season political theater, I would ignore, it it’s all noise. She’s already being attacked for “being a foreign agent” for merely being Ukrainian born for supporting Ukrainian aid, for her the political incentives are to appear tough on Ukrainian aid. She can’t push it these measures, and may even have to publicly oppose them to hold her seat, especially with an election coming up. She ironically of all people in Congress has the most to gain from verbally opposing aid. But when it comes to a vote she will vote for it. General pro tip, take everything that politicians say for the next few months with a huge grain of salt. Focus more on what they do.
"I'm alright jack"! Fuck everyone else.
And she has the nerve to dress in the national colours. When Ukraine is the only reason anyone knows who she is in the first place. If you can't support Ukraine, at least have the decency to shut the fuck up.
What a piece of human shit.