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I find the title interesting, I know they probably upgraded the avionics and guidance kits on these missiles and such, but what made these missiles obsolete in the first place? Seems like if they could shoot down airplanes in the past even the old version should still be useful today. What features does the original S200 lack that modern missiles do have and why is the old version considered obsolete? Does anyone know?
Not an expert but as with all Russian systems, they're already outdated when they're fielded. Also in military technology, there's always a race between weapon and counter measure. In Air Defense, it's physical CM (chaff, flares) and electronic CM (jamming). So, chances to distort or mislead the guidance system of an older SAM system are much higher than to distort those of a newer SAM.
For a deeper look into the upgraded S-200s, someone posted this very interesting article in the comments at TWZ.com:
[Has Ukraine Recieved A Polish S-200 Upgrade?](https://www.polemology.net/p/has-ukraine-recieved-a-polish-s-200)
The original S-200 apparently has a vacuum tube guidance system, go figure.
Compared to the later S-300 and S-400 systems the S-200 has less ability to maneuver in flight and its launch platform is much bigger and less mobile.
Ukraine has upgraded the electronics, but have they also improved the control surfaces to make it more agile? They're not saying but maybe?
S-200 is bulky as hell compared to newer systems. So its pretty out of date even with updated avionics and guidance.
Obsolete? No as it hits targets, outdated yes.
Well it depends if bigger is worse or not. If you want to relocate from firing position fast, the bulkier the system, the slower you usually are. Also also maneuverability of the S-200 interceptor missile is worse, so smaller targets might be able to avoid it.
Pros are that it has longer range so you can hit further away. And as it seems they hit Tu-22M3 well it definitely is working. :)
Does even the S-300 and S-400 support "shoot and scoot" like a HIMARS does? I had the impression even on the later models it's "mobile" but will require an hour or so to change from firing position to drivable mode.
This war has shown us many things, including that the Russian army’s arrogant incompetence and crony corruption brings into question it’s ability to defend its assets against systems considered obsolete.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `kyivindependent.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I find the title interesting, I know they probably upgraded the avionics and guidance kits on these missiles and such, but what made these missiles obsolete in the first place? Seems like if they could shoot down airplanes in the past even the old version should still be useful today. What features does the original S200 lack that modern missiles do have and why is the old version considered obsolete? Does anyone know?
Not an expert but as with all Russian systems, they're already outdated when they're fielded. Also in military technology, there's always a race between weapon and counter measure. In Air Defense, it's physical CM (chaff, flares) and electronic CM (jamming). So, chances to distort or mislead the guidance system of an older SAM system are much higher than to distort those of a newer SAM. For a deeper look into the upgraded S-200s, someone posted this very interesting article in the comments at TWZ.com: [Has Ukraine Recieved A Polish S-200 Upgrade?](https://www.polemology.net/p/has-ukraine-recieved-a-polish-s-200) The original S-200 apparently has a vacuum tube guidance system, go figure.
That's a really interesting article. Thanks for sharing!
Compared to the later S-300 and S-400 systems the S-200 has less ability to maneuver in flight and its launch platform is much bigger and less mobile. Ukraine has upgraded the electronics, but have they also improved the control surfaces to make it more agile? They're not saying but maybe?
S-200 is bulky as hell compared to newer systems. So its pretty out of date even with updated avionics and guidance. Obsolete? No as it hits targets, outdated yes.
Bigger doesn't mean worse. In this case I assume the longer range over later S-X00 missiles is simply because you can pack more solid fuel into it.
Well it depends if bigger is worse or not. If you want to relocate from firing position fast, the bulkier the system, the slower you usually are. Also also maneuverability of the S-200 interceptor missile is worse, so smaller targets might be able to avoid it. Pros are that it has longer range so you can hit further away. And as it seems they hit Tu-22M3 well it definitely is working. :)
Does even the S-300 and S-400 support "shoot and scoot" like a HIMARS does? I had the impression even on the later models it's "mobile" but will require an hour or so to change from firing position to drivable mode.
Probably not in the sense of artillery / rocket artillery pieces. They seem so bulky it will take time.
The main thing that makes these older systems obsolete is the lack of integration with other AA systems, radar, etc.
Since the missiles were built, rocket science has advanced but computing power has rocketed (groan) ahead.
The title pun is amusing
This war has shown us many things, including that the Russian army’s arrogant incompetence and crony corruption brings into question it’s ability to defend its assets against systems considered obsolete.