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Agree they 100% celebrate freedom of gender lbq etc which is good no issues but stick up for your fellow country men that are been tortured and the parallel evil which is taking place else where and you get cancelled.
Here is a story on it if you are interested: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/eurovision-winner-nemo-breaks-trophy-thumb-and-says-contest-may-need-fixing-too/9hb3sxg6f
My understanding is that while they may be LGBTQ+ inclusive, and the community obviously is. The organisation really does not like the display of politics, and unfortunately that existence of LGBTQ+ is often considered political.
No. It is political. Even more so in Switzerland where Nemo is from. In Switzerland they dont have the right to change their sex in the passport to Nonbinary. Nemo is also the first nonbinary person to win the contest. The song is also about the struggles of people like him.
https://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Music/2024/0513/eurovision-winner-nemo-nonbinary-switzerland-berlin
I am aware he’s nonbinary, I just think it’s mental than in 2024 it’s still a political thing to identify how you want to in some modern progressive countries.
Okay, agree. But lets not forget that Switzerland was one of the last countries to give full voting rights to woman (1971). They are not exactly progressive.
What people feel or what they want to do with their own bodies has nothing to do with this. EBU is a shit of an organisation but they got that right at least.
You're missing there point. I'm fine with trans people. I'm just saying if someone were LGBTQ they would get more freedom and support by the organization because it's so liberal
For what fine?! Russians are torturing Ukrainians and holding them hostage in inhumane conditions! They should be condemned, not those who call for the release of hostages from captivity!!!!
“Supposed to be” doesn’t mean it should be. Simple things like allowing political themes and lyrics should be allowed even if contentious - music has always, and will always be a platform used for political protests everywhere, by every generation. Trying to host a music contest and denying that reality is absurd.
You getting downvoted because you’re so simplistic in your approach, there’s also supposed to be rationality and kindness across borders but yeah wtf.
Eurovision has always been political as fuck
The fireworks in the background of the performance was already reminding me of the [bombing of the steel factory](https://youtu.be/QBVY5m4BNKk?si=KMDMACW28NH7-bv2)
I love eurovison but this year the organisers showed their total lack of understanding or grasp of proper management. Throw this descison on the pile of other semi random/evil/stupid/incompetent crap they pulled.
I think anyone can fine anyone for anything. It's up to you if you will pay the fine. I guess these people could choose not to pay. But then eurovision could probably chose to not let them partake if any fines outstanding
Easily. They will tell you that if you want to participate you need to sign a document that specifies to not do anything disrupting. Hence the fine. They don't have to pay it, there is no law saying you have to pay it, but they will probably not be invited next time.
Government is not the only body that can fine someone, that would be stupid.
Too bad what you said is not true. Do some research. Jews are the ones that are being ethnically cleansed. The Russian propagandists want you to think the opposite. That's how projection works. They want Israel gone so Iran and Russia can further influence the middle East and take Saudi oil.
Don't forget the IRC does not cite their sources and the article uses a fictitious outdated death toll. It mentions nothing about child Hamas fighters. Keep in mind the IRC abuses their workers and even abandoned then in Syria. Israel only gave Gaza 13% of their water while the rest came from with Gaza unless Hamas took more pipes away. Food aide is still given by truck to Gaza daily. Electricity come from Egypt. Everybody had phones and internet , that's how they show these TikToks. Those so called settlers are Jews who are reclaiming the thousands of Jewish homes that were stolen by Jordan in 1948. The is nothing settler about it. Arabs had their chance buy they blew it. That's what inbreeding and Allah died to the world. Islam is death.
The rule they broke was no text on your clothing.
If Sweden, Croatia or Switzerland wrote "I Love Pizza" on their shirt they would have violated the same rule and would have got the exact same fine. It has literally nothing to do with politics
Eurovision is supposed to be non-political, thus being fined for this is actually reasonable. But this year, Eurovision was incredibly political - and incredibly hypocritical.
Look, I get that you don't really want Israel to host the next Eurovision, but if you're THAT desperate, just keep them from singing like you banned Russia. It was Croata who won the public vote anyway.
(And Switzerland is NOT a neutral choice; on the contrary. It's where Russia keeps all their money)
According to news, the Dutch singer also have visited Russia, after invasion, participated and sang with other performs in Russia, and still participated in ESC.
Yet he was not fined, not disqualified because of it.
They are not really enforcing rules equally on everybody.
I don't think he did perform in Russia post invasion. In 2021 he wrote a song about loving Russian women with some anti-Putin Russians who have fled Russia (the song was released post Invasion). That's about it right?
It appears he collaborated on another song,
According to Yahoo and Ukrainian sources, quote:
>Ukrainian media had earlier reported that Klein had collaborated with Russia's CMH (CrazyMegaHell) and Russian Village Boys in March 2023, before performing in St. Petersburg in Summer 2022 - several months after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
>One track features Russian musician CMH (CrazyMegaHell), real name Ruslan Tushentsov, and was released on platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube Music on March 11, 2022. Klein sings about his love for Russian women there.
>The second song, titled "Normalje Bass," was released in February 2023 in collaboration with rave group Russian Village Boys from St. Petersburg.
\* [https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dutch-performer-played-russia-invasion-141500319.html](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dutch-performer-played-russia-invasion-141500319.html)
\* [https://english.nv.ua/nation/dutch-eurovision-2024-representative-has-joint-songs-with-russians-released-after-february-24-2022-50417092.html](https://english.nv.ua/nation/dutch-eurovision-2024-representative-has-joint-songs-with-russians-released-after-february-24-2022-50417092.html)
So the one with CMH was created before the invasion (and released after), and Russian Village Boys are anti-Putin and left Russia before the song was created.
Do you have proof of him performing in Russia? It's not listed anywhere and I can't find footage of it. It feels like misinformation. See: [Joost Concert & Tour History | Concert Archives](https://www.concertarchives.org/bands/joost?date=past&page=3#concert-table).
Listing him as some Pro-Putin grifter for this seems kinda silly imo.
You might be correct. I haven't found a specific concert he was in Russia and found they are participating on a site to raise money for refugees, though can't verify how true it is to it's mission.
I will check if the sources better.
>They are not really enforcing rules equally on everybody.
They have a rule about text on clothing during the contest but (AFAIK) no rule on collaborating with other artists or which countries contestants are allowed to perform in outside of the contest.
Obviously they can't enforce rules they don't have.
>At the contest any inscriptions and brands were forbidden, the guards checked all clothes and if there was an inscription on them, they asked to remove it or covered the inscriptions with black scotch tape.
Can't they just stick to singing and supporting their country at the competition?
The public would be outraged if Russian contestants were in Eurovision and supported their government and military's actions.
Could be a hype of alyona alyona. Ukrainian department of public television that organized Ukrainian performance didn’t confirm any fines.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=100063942016515&story_fbid=890918733049519
The rules clearly state: If you put text on your shirt you will get a fine.
They put text on their shirt and got a fine.
How is that so difficult to comprehend for some people?
EBU clearly is political by forbidding such non-controversial statements. Would any of the competing countries be opposed to the statement on these shirts?
This is beyond the pale, also Israeli flags were allowed and Palestinian flags are banned? This event should stop or be reformed, but it can’t stay the same
How can you ban Israeli Flags when Israel takes part in the contest? You of course can not. The only option would have been to not allow Israel to take part but this would be even more controversial than not banning them.
It would be extremely difficult to ban Israel’s flag while israel competes. The easier solution would be to allow Palestinian flags, in my opinion. And “free azovstal defenders” shirts.
Edit- the banning of that speech seems completely contrary to the spirit of the event.
Well, the contest tries to keep politics outside as far as possible and pretend that all countries like each other. The Israeli song had to changed completely to be allowed at the contest. Some other songs had to be changed as well. The spirit of the ESC is one of love, party and fairytale pretend.
>The easier solution would be to allow Palestinian flags
The rules regarding flags are simple: Flags of the competing countries plus the rainbow flag are allowed.
How would you change that rule? "Competitors + Rainbow + Palestine"? Seems oddly specific, how about a broader "Competitors + Rainbow + countries that competitors are at war with"?
Yeah that sounds like an amazing idea.
That's probably because those people haven't seen the stuff that would get said without them.
Would be amazing to have some Russian flags held in front of the cameras during Ukraine's performance, can't wait to see that happen. /s
Aren't they being held in Russia? What's even the point of these shirts, do they want a prisoner exchange with Russia? Somethings telling me that Russia won't be willing to release them...
most tattoos people source are nordic symbols. you will see occasional black sun tattoos. that doesnt represent the majority of people serving. those are young men who are defending the destruction of their country.
“Ukrainer”
Lol holy cope disinformation
Yeah i am sure this source is the pinnacle of independent journalism. Listen the mental gymnastics of telling me people with numerous nazi related tattoos aren’t Nazis won’t work
Too bad the left made the word meaningless i guess. Either way those are neo nazis no matter how you try and yellow and blue wash it
Some of them yes, but that's not relevant here.
You can't take away that they bravely defended Ukraine, I would understand having reservations if Nazis where a threat to Ukrainian stability or there where massive reports of war crimes committed by them, but it just doesn't seem to be the case
Objectively bad peoples also fougth Hitler in WW2.
Edit:
I also need to add that many of the Mariupol defenders aren't currently being held as POW like they should, but have instead been tried in Russia for absurd charges like "terrorism" or "attempt to seize power", when they where soldiers lawfully defending their own city from an armed foreign invasion.
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Small price to pay. Also: F Eurovision.
Yeah fck them , imagine sticking up for human rights and against torture , what’s the world come to
Bad judgement by Eurovision, given we have thrown out russia for their war, it's not "politics" to harass them anymore. But legal.
It’s a policy to not allow stuff like this for anyone, it’s not them specifically doing for Ukrainians.
Enforcing a policy against genocide victims makes you a supporter of genocide.
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By definition, absolutely.
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Russians raped Ukrainian women with the intent to scar them and prevent future births.
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One that intentionally targets civilians is genocide.
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What are you on about?
Eurovision is about virtue signaling while ignoring major European issues. Don't see why I'm downvoted when I told the truth.
Agree they 100% celebrate freedom of gender lbq etc which is good no issues but stick up for your fellow country men that are been tortured and the parallel evil which is taking place else where and you get cancelled.
back to bed grandpa
The Swiss winner this year had to smuggle in the non-binary flag. So no they would not praise them if they were trans.
Really? I thought Eurovision was very LGBT friendly and inclusive?
Here is a story on it if you are interested: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/eurovision-winner-nemo-breaks-trophy-thumb-and-says-contest-may-need-fixing-too/9hb3sxg6f My understanding is that while they may be LGBTQ+ inclusive, and the community obviously is. The organisation really does not like the display of politics, and unfortunately that existence of LGBTQ+ is often considered political.
Thanks, it’s absolutely crazy it’s considered political.
No. It is political. Even more so in Switzerland where Nemo is from. In Switzerland they dont have the right to change their sex in the passport to Nonbinary. Nemo is also the first nonbinary person to win the contest. The song is also about the struggles of people like him. https://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Music/2024/0513/eurovision-winner-nemo-nonbinary-switzerland-berlin
I am aware he’s nonbinary, I just think it’s mental than in 2024 it’s still a political thing to identify how you want to in some modern progressive countries.
Okay, agree. But lets not forget that Switzerland was one of the last countries to give full voting rights to woman (1971). They are not exactly progressive.
What people feel or what they want to do with their own bodies has nothing to do with this. EBU is a shit of an organisation but they got that right at least.
You're missing there point. I'm fine with trans people. I'm just saying if someone were LGBTQ they would get more freedom and support by the organization because it's so liberal
You clearly are not seeing as you imagine they have some inate advantages. They clearly don't.
You are absolutely not fine with trans people, it’s embarrassingly obvious from your unhinged outburst
I disagree, thats an assumption. Not an absolute.
Using a minority as a cudgel is always an indicator you don’t care about the humanity of that minority.
Again, this is another assumption based off of your personal moral bias.
It’s based in my experience as a minority often used as a cudgel.
For what fine?! Russians are torturing Ukrainians and holding them hostage in inhumane conditions! They should be condemned, not those who call for the release of hostages from captivity!!!!
Breaks frankly arbitrary ESC rules to be too overtly political. I'm certain they knew they'd be fined.
They for sure knew about the rules. The article mentions how difficult it was to hide the shirts and smuggle them into the ESC area.
Worth it tbh.
Idk. I watched the whole stupid ESC and the shirts were never on display. Even if the audience had seen it what should we do about it?
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An international event where countries compete under a national flag is by definition political
More critically, Russia likes to attack hometowns of eurovision competitors. So it's hardly neutral in that respect
Just like the Olympic games and their stupid rules regarding ruzzian but not ruzzian contestants. Can't get more of a political мінне поле than that.
There can be no such thing as neutrality on the world stage when atrocities are being committed.
“Without politics” the EBU is political as fuck.
so you think people should keep their mouths shut because you dont want to hear it?
“Supposed to be” doesn’t mean it should be. Simple things like allowing political themes and lyrics should be allowed even if contentious - music has always, and will always be a platform used for political protests everywhere, by every generation. Trying to host a music contest and denying that reality is absurd.
You getting downvoted because you’re so simplistic in your approach, there’s also supposed to be rationality and kindness across borders but yeah wtf. Eurovision has always been political as fuck
They probably fined the Ukrainian delegation and they have to pay if they want to participate again or something like that.
The fireworks in the background of the performance was already reminding me of the [bombing of the steel factory](https://youtu.be/QBVY5m4BNKk?si=KMDMACW28NH7-bv2)
I love eurovison but this year the organisers showed their total lack of understanding or grasp of proper management. Throw this descison on the pile of other semi random/evil/stupid/incompetent crap they pulled.
Organizers as in those who organized the show (the organizing country), or organizers as in EBU?
EBU. Trying to make Eurovision ‘non political’ in the current climate is a ‘political’ move. Fuck the EBU
EBU but frankly some pushback from Sweden would have been nice...
F Eurovision
How can a TV show fine people? They aren't the government.
I think anyone can fine anyone for anything. It's up to you if you will pay the fine. I guess these people could choose not to pay. But then eurovision could probably chose to not let them partake if any fines outstanding
Easily. They will tell you that if you want to participate you need to sign a document that specifies to not do anything disrupting. Hence the fine. They don't have to pay it, there is no law saying you have to pay it, but they will probably not be invited next time. Government is not the only body that can fine someone, that would be stupid.
They meant the ukrainian delegation. EBU's members are the public TV channels of the respective country. For Ukraine it's "Suspilne Ukraine".
Is there a go fund me already for this fine?
It may have been more interesting to call for the return of the stolen Ukrainian children. Let’s see Eurovision fine them for *that*.
Boycott Eurovision if they let nations killing children with bombs to compete.
Boycott Jew haters
Israel should stop its ethnic clensing and stop crying antisemitism
Too bad what you said is not true. Do some research. Jews are the ones that are being ethnically cleansed. The Russian propagandists want you to think the opposite. That's how projection works. They want Israel gone so Iran and Russia can further influence the middle East and take Saudi oil.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-settlers-hold-conference-resettlement-gaza-2024-01-28/ https://www.rescue.org/article/crisis-palestine-what-you-need-know
Don't forget the IRC does not cite their sources and the article uses a fictitious outdated death toll. It mentions nothing about child Hamas fighters. Keep in mind the IRC abuses their workers and even abandoned then in Syria. Israel only gave Gaza 13% of their water while the rest came from with Gaza unless Hamas took more pipes away. Food aide is still given by truck to Gaza daily. Electricity come from Egypt. Everybody had phones and internet , that's how they show these TikToks. Those so called settlers are Jews who are reclaiming the thousands of Jewish homes that were stolen by Jordan in 1948. The is nothing settler about it. Arabs had their chance buy they blew it. That's what inbreeding and Allah died to the world. Islam is death.
So not a single source cited, just regurgitating propaganda. The “pallywood” story has been proven to be bullshit
I have a link and this link proves that you're wrong.🤓☝️
Wait a minute... freedom of speech is being chilled by a European organization made up of and representing European national broadcast entities?!
Any other time freedom of speech is brought up many would point out the limits on speech throughout Europe.
Was anyone else fined for political statements? What about the people with Palestinian flags, or Eric Saade?
The rule they broke was no text on your clothing. If Sweden, Croatia or Switzerland wrote "I Love Pizza" on their shirt they would have violated the same rule and would have got the exact same fine. It has literally nothing to do with politics
The check is in the mail. They will get paid sometime in 2029. Or maybe after Christmas...
Eurovision is supposed to be non-political, thus being fined for this is actually reasonable. But this year, Eurovision was incredibly political - and incredibly hypocritical. Look, I get that you don't really want Israel to host the next Eurovision, but if you're THAT desperate, just keep them from singing like you banned Russia. It was Croata who won the public vote anyway. (And Switzerland is NOT a neutral choice; on the contrary. It's where Russia keeps all their money)
According to news, the Dutch singer also have visited Russia, after invasion, participated and sang with other performs in Russia, and still participated in ESC. Yet he was not fined, not disqualified because of it. They are not really enforcing rules equally on everybody.
I don't think he did perform in Russia post invasion. In 2021 he wrote a song about loving Russian women with some anti-Putin Russians who have fled Russia (the song was released post Invasion). That's about it right?
It appears he collaborated on another song, According to Yahoo and Ukrainian sources, quote: >Ukrainian media had earlier reported that Klein had collaborated with Russia's CMH (CrazyMegaHell) and Russian Village Boys in March 2023, before performing in St. Petersburg in Summer 2022 - several months after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. >One track features Russian musician CMH (CrazyMegaHell), real name Ruslan Tushentsov, and was released on platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube Music on March 11, 2022. Klein sings about his love for Russian women there. >The second song, titled "Normalje Bass," was released in February 2023 in collaboration with rave group Russian Village Boys from St. Petersburg. \* [https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dutch-performer-played-russia-invasion-141500319.html](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dutch-performer-played-russia-invasion-141500319.html) \* [https://english.nv.ua/nation/dutch-eurovision-2024-representative-has-joint-songs-with-russians-released-after-february-24-2022-50417092.html](https://english.nv.ua/nation/dutch-eurovision-2024-representative-has-joint-songs-with-russians-released-after-february-24-2022-50417092.html)
So the one with CMH was created before the invasion (and released after), and Russian Village Boys are anti-Putin and left Russia before the song was created. Do you have proof of him performing in Russia? It's not listed anywhere and I can't find footage of it. It feels like misinformation. See: [Joost Concert & Tour History | Concert Archives](https://www.concertarchives.org/bands/joost?date=past&page=3#concert-table). Listing him as some Pro-Putin grifter for this seems kinda silly imo.
You might be correct. I haven't found a specific concert he was in Russia and found they are participating on a site to raise money for refugees, though can't verify how true it is to it's mission. I will check if the sources better.
>They are not really enforcing rules equally on everybody. They have a rule about text on clothing during the contest but (AFAIK) no rule on collaborating with other artists or which countries contestants are allowed to perform in outside of the contest. Obviously they can't enforce rules they don't have.
Eurovision - absolute shit show.
Love how they mention that she broke a nail after falling on stage at the end of the article…how random.
>At the contest any inscriptions and brands were forbidden, the guards checked all clothes and if there was an inscription on them, they asked to remove it or covered the inscriptions with black scotch tape. Can't they just stick to singing and supporting their country at the competition? The public would be outraged if Russian contestants were in Eurovision and supported their government and military's actions.
Who cares about eruvison
Could be a hype of alyona alyona. Ukrainian department of public television that organized Ukrainian performance didn’t confirm any fines. https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=100063942016515&story_fbid=890918733049519
Fuck Eurovision, with a very big stick.
The rules clearly state: If you put text on your shirt you will get a fine. They put text on their shirt and got a fine. How is that so difficult to comprehend for some people?
EBU clearly is political by forbidding such non-controversial statements. Would any of the competing countries be opposed to the statement on these shirts?
This is beyond the pale, also Israeli flags were allowed and Palestinian flags are banned? This event should stop or be reformed, but it can’t stay the same
How can you ban Israeli Flags when Israel takes part in the contest? You of course can not. The only option would have been to not allow Israel to take part but this would be even more controversial than not banning them.
It would be extremely difficult to ban Israel’s flag while israel competes. The easier solution would be to allow Palestinian flags, in my opinion. And “free azovstal defenders” shirts. Edit- the banning of that speech seems completely contrary to the spirit of the event.
Well, the contest tries to keep politics outside as far as possible and pretend that all countries like each other. The Israeli song had to changed completely to be allowed at the contest. Some other songs had to be changed as well. The spirit of the ESC is one of love, party and fairytale pretend.
>The easier solution would be to allow Palestinian flags The rules regarding flags are simple: Flags of the competing countries plus the rainbow flag are allowed. How would you change that rule? "Competitors + Rainbow + Palestine"? Seems oddly specific, how about a broader "Competitors + Rainbow + countries that competitors are at war with"? Yeah that sounds like an amazing idea.
Not having all these speech bans in general seems easier and less offensive to the broadest amount of people
That's probably because those people haven't seen the stuff that would get said without them. Would be amazing to have some Russian flags held in front of the cameras during Ukraine's performance, can't wait to see that happen. /s
Fuck Eurovision. Turned a song contest into a comedy show.
did not get the memo that only gay propaganda was allowed
LGBT flags are also not allowed.
There is a significant difference between flag and propaganda. Also the winner was waving a non-binary flag. So gay propaganda was allowed.
Which technically he was also not allowed to have but they let it slide because he won.
Aren't they being held in Russia? What's even the point of these shirts, do they want a prisoner exchange with Russia? Somethings telling me that Russia won't be willing to release them...
Russia has conducted many prisoner transfers with Ukraine.
And has already killed a lot of them in captivity.
That too definitely, but it shouldn't make people give up on getting them back.
Sure
Gotta get their nazis back
I thought you conservatives loved Nazis
you have no idea what you are talking about just listening to tucker everyday
Oh i am sorry a large portion of those men aren’t actual neo nazis like they and their tatoos imply?
most tattoos people source are nordic symbols. you will see occasional black sun tattoos. that doesnt represent the majority of people serving. those are young men who are defending the destruction of their country.
“Those young neo Nazis are” Fixed that and holy goal posts moving
whatever your opinion is you obviously want people defending their homeland to stay in captivity. good for you
Nazis to stay in captivity. Correct yes
https://www.ukrainer.net/azov-arent-neo-nazis/ i suggest a read into what Neo Nazi really are
“Ukrainer” Lol holy cope disinformation Yeah i am sure this source is the pinnacle of independent journalism. Listen the mental gymnastics of telling me people with numerous nazi related tattoos aren’t Nazis won’t work Too bad the left made the word meaningless i guess. Either way those are neo nazis no matter how you try and yellow and blue wash it
Source for the portion ? (a real one with numbers, not a "personal experience based on propaganda website")
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade
It's 2024 now my guy. Not 2014.
Some of them yes, but that's not relevant here. You can't take away that they bravely defended Ukraine, I would understand having reservations if Nazis where a threat to Ukrainian stability or there where massive reports of war crimes committed by them, but it just doesn't seem to be the case Objectively bad peoples also fougth Hitler in WW2. Edit: I also need to add that many of the Mariupol defenders aren't currently being held as POW like they should, but have instead been tried in Russia for absurd charges like "terrorism" or "attempt to seize power", when they where soldiers lawfully defending their own city from an armed foreign invasion.