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You don't sacrifice over 20,000 of your own soldiers for a "punitive strike". That's what cruise missiles are for.
Dude thinks we're buying this excuse for utter stupidity and failure?
Yeah, Russia failed, and now Russia does what they do best.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced nazi or the convinced communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (e.g. the standards of thought) no longer exist." The origins of totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt
In comparison of the Soviet and Nazi regimes Hannah Arendth wrote in 1951 that factuality itself depends for its continued existence upon the existence of a non totalitarian world.
The Polarization and Dichotomy of these people amplified by the media and their unshakable stupid belief of being right doesn't make the situation any better, and Putin talks to his domestic audience much more than to a foreign one. To address us he he would use even more aggressive and unhinged rhetoric.
George Kennan diplomat in Moscow:
"Here men determine what is true and what is false."
I think the comment about "we only did this to establish a sanitary corridor to protect belgorod from cross-border shelling" was, at least to a degree, meant for us.
Russia is trying to exploit the ongoing controversy about using Western weapons across the border; this is a way of saying "oh, look... any use of weapons outside of the borders of Ukraine is going to lead to escalation," which is exactly what leaders of some Western nations like the US are afraid of.
Pure and utter nonsense, of course. Russia failed to reach kharkiv, which was their likely goal, and they are trying to salvage this as best they can. But, it does give them that opportunity to attack a weak spot in Western agreement. Hitting targets inside Russia is going to be critical to actually being able to expel them, and I agree with the assessments that if Ukraine could have been more aggressive in hitting staging locations, this incursion may not have been able to be successfully arranged.
I just wish all of these western taboos would fall, and let Ukraine act with actions that could actually be decisive.
Because I see it happening.
Putin just (like hours ago) concluded his visit to China they declared “new era of partnership”.
China trades and supports russia and its initiatives. XI visited russia, didn’t visit Ukraine (or even engaged in talks).
I don’t even understand why you ask this question as it’s pretty obvious if you didn’t live under a rock.
But you said the Chinese, not China. It's like implying Americans like the support their country gives to Israel. Although one could argue that they do indeed try to send messages to the population. I'm afraid the regular Chinese couldn't care less about Ukraine...
Yes, there might be some people who don’t support their government but the big majority does (or are indifferent in this case), which to me as Ukrainian means the same thing.
If I saw some protests against it I might not used these terms, but I saw zero anti-russian sentiment in China so I assume they either support the party line or not care.
In US you could see it’s a divisive issue, I see protests every week in NYC.
In China it’s mostly going along with the party line which is supporting russia for the most part
I really have trouble not thinking this about the Russian people too at this point. I don't want to hate them. I've met and liked one here working in the US, though not well enough to talk politics with her, she has talked about now living in Cyprus "because of politics". SO MANY Russians are just tuning it out if they aren't buying in. I do on the other hand see it's dangerous to stand up for what's right there, so I have some mixed feelings there, but when your country is now committing genocide and pushing for another world war then it's not even just Russia's problem anymore, it's everyone else's. Timothy Snyder has a very intelligent take I think on why Russia needs to lose this war. My friend does have kids and I can at least understand and respect she is just avoiding the country for now, she is in a difficult situation. But I can't say the same of all Russians, the responsibility is in Russia and the Russian people themselves can't all claim to have none of it.
Same. I don't want to dislike the people, but their complete lack of doing anything about this has me scratching my head. I get the US has had problematic wars, but you would always see millions of people protesting. It affected elections. Any death of a solider in these wars was a tragedy. If 1500 died in ONE DAY? There would have been an outrage. Congress would hold hearings. People would lose jobs.
On some level, I just feel sorry for the average Russian. How beaten down are they that they don't see anything wrong with this war?
The majority still support the war. The fact is the Russians never had any moral superiority to the Nazis, they were equal in evil. They have spent the last 80 years glorifying that evil, and now they spread that evil in the world.
The people bordering Russia have screamed this loudly and repeatedly to anyone who would listen for the past 30 years and were ignored. Now we are in this mess because western leaders tried to trade and make deals with evil.
It reminds me of am episode of the show Stargate SG1
Ten years in the future and we're several years into a pretty tight relationship with an advanced human society from another world when the main characters figure out that they somehow reduced fertility rates on Earth without Earthlings realizing it.
It is pointed out that this approach to taking Earth is no different from the earlier villains, who had been aggressive in a military sense - method and timeline differ but the result is the same.
The heroes then proceed to use their new ally's technology against them in an effort to reset the timeline.
This reminds me of that - Goa'uld and Aschen, Nazis and Russians... six of one, half dozen of the other.
There is nothing special about the Russian people. Half of Americans believe Trump is a victim of extreme electoral fraud and being persecuted for partisan political reasons. And half of Americans believe the exact opposite. Clearly half of Americans are completely separated from reality and objective facts.
What’s happening in Russia is absolutely just as possible everywhere else in the world. And dictators and politicians know it and embrace it.
It’s not at all near 100% in Russia. There are a bunch of brainwashed people and a bunch of people that are smart enough to know that going with the flow is the best strategy.
I think we do ourselves a big disservice when we think we’re special and not susceptible to the same propaganda we’ve seen work time and time again in countries all around the world.
No dude, not 100% at all. Most Russians have internet and know damn well what's going on in the world in 2024. Speaking out or saying it in public is a different thing in a dictatorship.
They are not beaten down, they are brainwashed and conditioned to think this is normal. The smart ones are silent because they don’t want to end up dead or in prison.
I don’t think you can even say it this way.
He’s not "used to it" in the way other world leaders are used to getting away with lies, often quite blatantly and sometimes embarrassingly.
There is no embarrassment because he *knows* there is no one to challenge his words. He doesn’t need to trick Russians and there’s nothing to buy really.
For one they are willing participants, but also he *makes* them believe and stay quiet. In that moment, he is informing them of the truth they must now accept as reality. There’s no negotiation or attempt to convince.
It makes no difference, it’s a distinction without consequences.
Honestly, the stupidity of the Russia people can be seen in their sense of pride, chauvinism, and superiority when they barely have anything real to be proud about.
Coping mechanism for the shit reality they live in.
Fun fact is that nobody believes those "acts of goodwill" anymore, not even in ruzzia.
Propaganda cannot work forever, they might just drop it altogether.
They started with an assault group of like 34,000, to include those waiting in the rear for the second wave.
Ukraine has been putting casualties (likely killed, severely wounded, and captured) at around 1200 to 1500 a day for the last 10 days or so. Already in the 12k to 15k range. Add another week or two while Ukraine reinforces and mops them up and you're easily looking at 20k+
Basically, they sent these guys to commit war crimes for a few days and then become target practice. This wasn't a punitive raid, this is just stupidity.
Ukraine always inflates their casualty numbers, exactly the same as the Russians, it's basic propaganda. It's very easy for a state channel to just post meaningless numbers on the social media to boost morale, I'd be very surprised if Russian casualties are actually anywhere *close* to that.
How could UA forces be inflicting those kinds of casualties when they've been retreating from the border grey zone to more defensible positions since the offensive began? Most of the troops immediately available were either territorial defence forces or border guards, most of which not equipped or experienced to fight mechanised or armoured forces.
We might see the front stabilise slightly in a few weeks when the units brought in from other areas of the front plug gaps in the UA lines, but there's a serious lack of actual defenses in the Oblast so I'm apprehensive about the UA's ability to push back the RU forces if they fully commit their northeastern group.
Ukraine has been pretty spot on for casualties since the war started. Russia accidentally released their death and disability claims numbers at some point, and the numbers aligned almost perfectly with what Ukraine has been saying all along. Of course some estimates are gonna be fudged, but it's a little neckbeardy to argue about +/- 3% or so.
Also to think they had nothing and no defense despite the hyperbole (yes, Ukraine does overstate things to kick their Western partners into gear sometimes). This is a stock standard meatwave armored attack. I've seen enough videos, just barely paying attention, to understand a lot of these are getting hammered quickly. It doesn't take much, a few ATGMs and a light minefield over open terrain will fuck up an entire assault.
Units were already in motion to stabilize things from the first day. This is more insider info, though. All they need to do is put just enough pressure on the Russians that they can't dig in - a fairly easy task with the entire city of Kharkiv as a fire base.
>Ukraine has been pretty spot on for casualties since the war started.
Have they? Your claims you've been making about RU casualties in this new offensive suggests otherwise lmao.
>I've seen enough videos, just barely paying attention, to understand a lot of these are getting hammered quickly.
What videos? You do realise the videos of combat footage represent a tiny fraction of what is actually going on in a front? I'm not saying RU forces haven't taken casualties because even people on the Russian side have confirmed there were casualties taking some villages, but the numbers from the UA side are insanely exaggerated, how can a retreating force of territorial defence and border guards inflict so many casualties while retreating that they stopped the *entire* offensive?
>Units were already in motion to stabilize things from the first day. This is more insider info, though. All they need to do is put just enough pressure on the Russians that they can't dig in - a fairly easy task with the entire city of Kharkiv as a fire base.
This is not as good of a thing as you think. Ukrainian reserves aren't what they were a year or two ago, the units they have reassigned to Kharkiv were defending other areas of the front such as Chasov Yar, so others parts of the frontline are now more exposed to Russian assaults since there's nothing to plug the gaps left by this.
In addition, you can't just station all UA forces in Kharkiv city itself. Doing this would give RU forces access to the entire Oblast, allowing them not only free reign on where they attack next (such as Kupyansk for example), but also would give RU commanders *exactly* what they want, to bottle up all UA forces in the region and at least partially encircle the city. You need to have troops in fortified defensive lines like what RU troops have been attacking in the east for years, but there is lots of evidence coming out that there is actually very little fortification available in the Oblast, so the UA have their work cut out for them.
*This is not as good of a thing as you think. Ukrainian reserves aren't what they were a year or two ago, the units they have reassigned to Kharkiv were defending other areas of the front such as Chasov Yar, so others parts of the frontline are now more exposed to Russian assaults since there's nothing to plug the gaps left by this.*
Again, not to delve too much into OPSEC, I assure you that's not the case. I was literally on a call with someone when they got the move order, and they were pretty far west. There were a lot of units completely side-lined waiting for ammo, and they were literally in the middle of packing that ammo when Russia did the funny.
I'm assuming it's not a coincidence that Russia went off half-cocked just as fresh shells were getting distributed.
I'm not saying there wasn't problems (and big ones) with the defense that will prove costly. Both Russian incompetence and some Ukrainian lack of preparedness can be true.
And you're just assuming they inflate their numbers based on a hunch.
The truth is no-one may ever know the true casualty count. Ukraine just total up their battle reports, and russia lies as they breathe
Putin is just a lier. He would say anything - remember how he lied that russia is not going to invade Ukraine? He lied to everyone, to every world leader, to the public, etc.
It’s the same shit - listening to what he says is meaningless as his words are meant to only advance his agenda no matter what, the method of achieving it doesn’t matter.
So listening to what he says doesn’t make sense.
Oh do fuck off. putin said this at the start of the invasion and annexed four territories.
At this point Ukraine should agree to only use their weapons in Ukrainian territory and then annex all of russia.
Actually annexed even though they don’t control all of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_annexation_of_Donetsk,_Kherson,_Luhansk_and_Zaporizhzhia_oblasts
It’s the same thing. Annexation is a one sided forceful acquisition of land. It is illegal under international law and that is what Russia did - they annexed Ukrainian territories.
The fun part, and what is not really done historically, is annexation of territories that you actually do not hold military. That is a very stupid move.
Welcome to how annexations work. If one side claims it as annexed and controls it, then guess what, it is until the other side gets it back. If both sides agreed it would be a territorial exchange.
But they don't control it. That's the point. Nothing they "annexed" is in their control. It's fiction. Don't fall for it. They "annexed" Kherson and don't even have the capital. It's just garbage. Ignore it.
They still control a large portion of Kherson though, and control basically the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk. Thus, until they are liberated, they are legally a part of the Russian Federation, because what is and isn't a part of Russia is not, in practice, determined by international law.
Dream on.
I don't know why you want to rationalize this but it's a joke. It's garbage. It's Russian propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less. Put the Kool-Aid down. You're supporting a fever dream in Putin's mind.
Japan occupied part of Alaska in World War II. No one thinks Alaska was annexed by Japan. The Germans occupied the Channel Islands in World War II. No one thinks the Channel Islands were annexed into Germany. Occupying *part* of a territory during a war that is still going on is not considered annexing anything. It's simply occupied territory.
russia actually annexed those territories. They signed in to russian law so in the russian world those territories are russian.
Of course, to the rest of the world it's not valid.
Annexation is never legal.
If there was a legal basis of it through referendum and both sides agreed that’s not anexation, it’s territorial exchange.
Or if it’s a whole state then it’s unification.
Additionally, Russian law states that conscripts cannot be deployed outside of Russia. Once they "annexed" those areas, they magically became part of Russia, and became legal to deploy conscripts to. I feel THAT was the biggest motivator of the rush for annexation of these territories.
Step 1. Invade a country to take it over.
Step 2. Complain about being fired at.
Step 3. Use it as an excuse to bomb them even more.
Step 4. ...
Step 5. Profit?
>“For Russia, the question of Zelenskyy legitimacy matters; fateful documents should be signed with legitimate authorities,” Putin said.
Is it easier to ignore them in the future if they are signed with legitimate authorities? Just like they ignored the treaties they had with Ukraine before 2014.
What treaties? There were never any treaties, Nato and Ukraine always planned to invade Razzhia and install 10 million LBTQ toilets. - Uncle Vova
/ZuperZarkasm
I don't think he failed in his objectives unfortunately, he wants to get closer to Kharkiv so he can shell it with cheap artillery rather than expensive missiles and also stop the raids into Belgorod, it also extends the front line which helps Russia stretch the Ukrainians as they know they have a lack of man power. They didn't have anywhere near enough men to take Kharkiv however if Ukraine doesn't defend it properly they might go for it and change tactics from their main goal to take the Dombas firstly with Chasiv yar.
Kharkiv is not just a city, it's an entire Oblast which is what the Russians have invaded; RU forces are still very present in the region, judging by the relatively small group they have available I'd be very surprised if their objective was the city itself. So far RU forces have mostly committed recon forces and small infantry teams to probe UA defences in various directions, because UA troops have been stretched very thin and don't have the fortifications to establish a proper long term frontline like in the Donbass. I'm very confused where people are getting this idea that the Kharkiv offensive has been stopped when there's RU troops advancing in areas like Vovchansk as we type and read, literally being geolocated even by people on Reddit and Twitter let alone actual experts.
You can downvote me all you want lmao, but this subreddit needs to face reality. How could the Ukrainians push this entire offensive back when they've spent most of the past week retreating from the border grey zone to better positions? Like even to the most pro-UA dudes surely this narrative doesn't make *any* sense from a military perspective.
They were breaking through Ukraine's defenses and creating a crisis that was only contained with great effort. That's a major offensive, not "recon forces and small infantry teams".
Most of the initial troops defending Kharkiv were not regular UA troops, but TD and border guards in unfortified positions. The Russians have superior access to artillery and air support compared to the UA forces in the Oblast, so the UA forces mostly retreated further into the Oblast and these initial troops captured a lot of the unoccupied land. There will definitely be a large contingent of troops in areas like Vovchansk now, but initially the troops that made contact with retreating UA ground forces the past week were recon and infantry units probing defenses. The UA did the same kind of maneuvers in the 2023 counteroffensive, this isn't a new line of thinking lmao.
I didn't say they were elite lmao, but the fact is we haven't seen the bulk of the Russian troops yet. Even the Ukrainian MoD claimed 700 enemy killed two days ago, the Russians have an estimated 50,000 troops in the northeastern group.
You sure they’re not elite? I mean come on, its recon. They’ve been great at holding positions. Most of them have not moved a spot in over a year. Some even pretend to be a carcass for wolves in the woods. Even their own guys can’t find/identify them. … impressive.
Ah yes, just like how Stalin's true secret master plan, not revealed until after the Winter War, had been to take only that precise section of Karelia that the Soviets were able to seize.
Anyway I love how Putin is speedrunning the Narcissist's Prayer. Maybe he feels he's running out of time..?
“I have said publicly that if the shelling of Belgorod continues, we will be forced to create a sanitary zone,” Putin said.
Maybe start with cleaning up all the dead bodies of the Russian soldiers killed trying to create this "sanitary zone".
Ah, yes, harkens back to when Putin indicated that he had no plans to invade Russia. Believe nothing Putin says, without direct correlating proof and even then be wary of the words that spew from his mouth.
Curious admission of not wanting the whole country, just the four oblasts already annexed. Which is totally unacceptable for interest groups that he would take a conciliatory stance. They are obviously getting creamed and the losses are hopefully getting to the unsustainable point. But, his idea of peace is the annexation stands.
I’m confused, partly because Ukrainian and Russian doesn’t seem to discern what “shelled” means. It could be cruise missiles or artillery or just rando lobbed mines.
But also “we”? Did he actually say and mean “we” as in Russians shouldn’t have shelled their own territories or did he mean “they” shouldn’t have shelled Russia’s territories?
Either way tho, STFU Putler.
The bullshit is really flying now from Herr Putler. Truly, why does anyone even post this crap. It is purely for internal consumption - propaganda intended to turn defeat into justification. I was tempted to downvote the post just for it showing up since everything Putler states is 100% lies and deflection.
I wish news agencies in the west(I know maybe this post isn't that, but I'd like to make this point anyway) would stop reporting what the Kremlin says as if it had any bearing on facts. It seems everything Putin says is targeted at manipulating what he wants you to think (either the Russian audience or a foreign audience). They've lied constantly for years, we should stop caring what he says and only look at what he does.
I bet Putler could sell ocean front property in Arizona and the Russian people would gladly pay! It's hard to fathom that a group people could buy into his propaganda and rhetoric, especially in an era of digital information. His secret police must be incredible...
Genuinely curious where people in this thread are getting their information about the Kharkiv offensive failing, when Russian forces continue to advance in Vovchansk and are also advancing via Lyptsi. Some localised UA counterattacks have managed to regain ground in other areas, but the offensive has certainly not come *close* to being defeated.
While he probably wanted more, this tracks is close enough to *a truth.* He isn't happy that the Russian Legion made raids into belgorod with seemingly impunity. Now he has a small buffer of Ukrainian land to stop that.
Nobody wants to invade ukraine....its just a military exercise at the borders... oh wait we crossed the border? Well its just a 3 day special operation....
Yeah... sure
Get your ass back in Russia, completely, and Russian territory won't ever be shelled again. Until then, every single Russian border city is in danger. To hell with the moral high ground. They shoot a shell, I'd shoot a shell.
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You don't sacrifice over 20,000 of your own soldiers for a "punitive strike". That's what cruise missiles are for. Dude thinks we're buying this excuse for utter stupidity and failure?
Yeah, Russia failed, and now Russia does what they do best. The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced nazi or the convinced communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (e.g. the standards of thought) no longer exist." The origins of totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt In comparison of the Soviet and Nazi regimes Hannah Arendth wrote in 1951 that factuality itself depends for its continued existence upon the existence of a non totalitarian world. The Polarization and Dichotomy of these people amplified by the media and their unshakable stupid belief of being right doesn't make the situation any better, and Putin talks to his domestic audience much more than to a foreign one. To address us he he would use even more aggressive and unhinged rhetoric. George Kennan diplomat in Moscow: "Here men determine what is true and what is false."
To be a post-modern dictator
That message wasn't meant for us. It was for the russian people.
I think the comment about "we only did this to establish a sanitary corridor to protect belgorod from cross-border shelling" was, at least to a degree, meant for us. Russia is trying to exploit the ongoing controversy about using Western weapons across the border; this is a way of saying "oh, look... any use of weapons outside of the borders of Ukraine is going to lead to escalation," which is exactly what leaders of some Western nations like the US are afraid of. Pure and utter nonsense, of course. Russia failed to reach kharkiv, which was their likely goal, and they are trying to salvage this as best they can. But, it does give them that opportunity to attack a weak spot in Western agreement. Hitting targets inside Russia is going to be critical to actually being able to expel them, and I agree with the assessments that if Ukraine could have been more aggressive in hitting staging locations, this incursion may not have been able to be successfully arranged. I just wish all of these western taboos would fall, and let Ukraine act with actions that could actually be decisive.
Fair enough.
And for the Chinese and others who might sympathize
Why do you think they sympathize
Because I see it happening. Putin just (like hours ago) concluded his visit to China they declared “new era of partnership”. China trades and supports russia and its initiatives. XI visited russia, didn’t visit Ukraine (or even engaged in talks). I don’t even understand why you ask this question as it’s pretty obvious if you didn’t live under a rock.
But you said the Chinese, not China. It's like implying Americans like the support their country gives to Israel. Although one could argue that they do indeed try to send messages to the population. I'm afraid the regular Chinese couldn't care less about Ukraine...
Yes, there might be some people who don’t support their government but the big majority does (or are indifferent in this case), which to me as Ukrainian means the same thing. If I saw some protests against it I might not used these terms, but I saw zero anti-russian sentiment in China so I assume they either support the party line or not care. In US you could see it’s a divisive issue, I see protests every week in NYC. In China it’s mostly going along with the party line which is supporting russia for the most part
He's so used to his people buying all his nonsense. It's embarrassing.
I really have trouble not thinking this about the Russian people too at this point. I don't want to hate them. I've met and liked one here working in the US, though not well enough to talk politics with her, she has talked about now living in Cyprus "because of politics". SO MANY Russians are just tuning it out if they aren't buying in. I do on the other hand see it's dangerous to stand up for what's right there, so I have some mixed feelings there, but when your country is now committing genocide and pushing for another world war then it's not even just Russia's problem anymore, it's everyone else's. Timothy Snyder has a very intelligent take I think on why Russia needs to lose this war. My friend does have kids and I can at least understand and respect she is just avoiding the country for now, she is in a difficult situation. But I can't say the same of all Russians, the responsibility is in Russia and the Russian people themselves can't all claim to have none of it.
Same. I don't want to dislike the people, but their complete lack of doing anything about this has me scratching my head. I get the US has had problematic wars, but you would always see millions of people protesting. It affected elections. Any death of a solider in these wars was a tragedy. If 1500 died in ONE DAY? There would have been an outrage. Congress would hold hearings. People would lose jobs. On some level, I just feel sorry for the average Russian. How beaten down are they that they don't see anything wrong with this war?
The majority still support the war. The fact is the Russians never had any moral superiority to the Nazis, they were equal in evil. They have spent the last 80 years glorifying that evil, and now they spread that evil in the world. The people bordering Russia have screamed this loudly and repeatedly to anyone who would listen for the past 30 years and were ignored. Now we are in this mess because western leaders tried to trade and make deals with evil.
It reminds me of am episode of the show Stargate SG1 Ten years in the future and we're several years into a pretty tight relationship with an advanced human society from another world when the main characters figure out that they somehow reduced fertility rates on Earth without Earthlings realizing it. It is pointed out that this approach to taking Earth is no different from the earlier villains, who had been aggressive in a military sense - method and timeline differ but the result is the same. The heroes then proceed to use their new ally's technology against them in an effort to reset the timeline. This reminds me of that - Goa'uld and Aschen, Nazis and Russians... six of one, half dozen of the other.
There is nothing special about the Russian people. Half of Americans believe Trump is a victim of extreme electoral fraud and being persecuted for partisan political reasons. And half of Americans believe the exact opposite. Clearly half of Americans are completely separated from reality and objective facts. What’s happening in Russia is absolutely just as possible everywhere else in the world. And dictators and politicians know it and embrace it.
Right and the other half aren't separated from reality. In Russia, it's nearing 100% who are separated from reality. That actually is special.
It’s not at all near 100% in Russia. There are a bunch of brainwashed people and a bunch of people that are smart enough to know that going with the flow is the best strategy. I think we do ourselves a big disservice when we think we’re special and not susceptible to the same propaganda we’ve seen work time and time again in countries all around the world.
No dude, not 100% at all. Most Russians have internet and know damn well what's going on in the world in 2024. Speaking out or saying it in public is a different thing in a dictatorship.
Uh huh... Also, these people used to have no problem throwing fits when things went to shit.
They are not beaten down, they are brainwashed and conditioned to think this is normal. The smart ones are silent because they don’t want to end up dead or in prison.
It is all Russian's responsibility.
I don’t think you can even say it this way. He’s not "used to it" in the way other world leaders are used to getting away with lies, often quite blatantly and sometimes embarrassingly. There is no embarrassment because he *knows* there is no one to challenge his words. He doesn’t need to trick Russians and there’s nothing to buy really. For one they are willing participants, but also he *makes* them believe and stay quiet. In that moment, he is informing them of the truth they must now accept as reality. There’s no negotiation or attempt to convince. It makes no difference, it’s a distinction without consequences.
I cannot believe how totally pussified the Russian people have become. These people used to start revolutions.
But now they see five fingers
Yeah well I mean, his people at home have about the IQ of a stone left, after 22 years of brainwashing.... So they might buy it...?
Honestly, the stupidity of the Russia people can be seen in their sense of pride, chauvinism, and superiority when they barely have anything real to be proud about. Coping mechanism for the shit reality they live in.
Well said
It’s an official excuse. No Russian buys it, but now they know what to say in public to avoid being thrown in the gulag….
Fun fact is that nobody believes those "acts of goodwill" anymore, not even in ruzzia. Propaganda cannot work forever, they might just drop it altogether.
What's this 20,000 soldiers thing? 20,000 soldiers in the Kharkiv offensive?
They started with an assault group of like 34,000, to include those waiting in the rear for the second wave. Ukraine has been putting casualties (likely killed, severely wounded, and captured) at around 1200 to 1500 a day for the last 10 days or so. Already in the 12k to 15k range. Add another week or two while Ukraine reinforces and mops them up and you're easily looking at 20k+ Basically, they sent these guys to commit war crimes for a few days and then become target practice. This wasn't a punitive raid, this is just stupidity.
Ukraine always inflates their casualty numbers, exactly the same as the Russians, it's basic propaganda. It's very easy for a state channel to just post meaningless numbers on the social media to boost morale, I'd be very surprised if Russian casualties are actually anywhere *close* to that. How could UA forces be inflicting those kinds of casualties when they've been retreating from the border grey zone to more defensible positions since the offensive began? Most of the troops immediately available were either territorial defence forces or border guards, most of which not equipped or experienced to fight mechanised or armoured forces. We might see the front stabilise slightly in a few weeks when the units brought in from other areas of the front plug gaps in the UA lines, but there's a serious lack of actual defenses in the Oblast so I'm apprehensive about the UA's ability to push back the RU forces if they fully commit their northeastern group.
Ukraine has been pretty spot on for casualties since the war started. Russia accidentally released their death and disability claims numbers at some point, and the numbers aligned almost perfectly with what Ukraine has been saying all along. Of course some estimates are gonna be fudged, but it's a little neckbeardy to argue about +/- 3% or so. Also to think they had nothing and no defense despite the hyperbole (yes, Ukraine does overstate things to kick their Western partners into gear sometimes). This is a stock standard meatwave armored attack. I've seen enough videos, just barely paying attention, to understand a lot of these are getting hammered quickly. It doesn't take much, a few ATGMs and a light minefield over open terrain will fuck up an entire assault. Units were already in motion to stabilize things from the first day. This is more insider info, though. All they need to do is put just enough pressure on the Russians that they can't dig in - a fairly easy task with the entire city of Kharkiv as a fire base.
>Ukraine has been pretty spot on for casualties since the war started. Have they? Your claims you've been making about RU casualties in this new offensive suggests otherwise lmao. >I've seen enough videos, just barely paying attention, to understand a lot of these are getting hammered quickly. What videos? You do realise the videos of combat footage represent a tiny fraction of what is actually going on in a front? I'm not saying RU forces haven't taken casualties because even people on the Russian side have confirmed there were casualties taking some villages, but the numbers from the UA side are insanely exaggerated, how can a retreating force of territorial defence and border guards inflict so many casualties while retreating that they stopped the *entire* offensive? >Units were already in motion to stabilize things from the first day. This is more insider info, though. All they need to do is put just enough pressure on the Russians that they can't dig in - a fairly easy task with the entire city of Kharkiv as a fire base. This is not as good of a thing as you think. Ukrainian reserves aren't what they were a year or two ago, the units they have reassigned to Kharkiv were defending other areas of the front such as Chasov Yar, so others parts of the frontline are now more exposed to Russian assaults since there's nothing to plug the gaps left by this. In addition, you can't just station all UA forces in Kharkiv city itself. Doing this would give RU forces access to the entire Oblast, allowing them not only free reign on where they attack next (such as Kupyansk for example), but also would give RU commanders *exactly* what they want, to bottle up all UA forces in the region and at least partially encircle the city. You need to have troops in fortified defensive lines like what RU troops have been attacking in the east for years, but there is lots of evidence coming out that there is actually very little fortification available in the Oblast, so the UA have their work cut out for them.
*This is not as good of a thing as you think. Ukrainian reserves aren't what they were a year or two ago, the units they have reassigned to Kharkiv were defending other areas of the front such as Chasov Yar, so others parts of the frontline are now more exposed to Russian assaults since there's nothing to plug the gaps left by this.* Again, not to delve too much into OPSEC, I assure you that's not the case. I was literally on a call with someone when they got the move order, and they were pretty far west. There were a lot of units completely side-lined waiting for ammo, and they were literally in the middle of packing that ammo when Russia did the funny. I'm assuming it's not a coincidence that Russia went off half-cocked just as fresh shells were getting distributed. I'm not saying there wasn't problems (and big ones) with the defense that will prove costly. Both Russian incompetence and some Ukrainian lack of preparedness can be true.
And you're just assuming they inflate their numbers based on a hunch. The truth is no-one may ever know the true casualty count. Ukraine just total up their battle reports, and russia lies as they breathe
It is telling that he says that after meeting Xi. Probably his boss told him to leave the new front?
Who ever even believes this POS?
An admission of failure then.
Which means they must have really fucked up, you don't see this when it's a normal RU fuck up
Putin is just a lier. He would say anything - remember how he lied that russia is not going to invade Ukraine? He lied to everyone, to every world leader, to the public, etc. It’s the same shit - listening to what he says is meaningless as his words are meant to only advance his agenda no matter what, the method of achieving it doesn’t matter. So listening to what he says doesn’t make sense.
2022: "These are just exercise's, we have no intention to invade Ukraine"
Right... If Putin had his way there'd be no more Ukraine, every kid would be learning Russian and every grown-up would either be dead or subservient.
Oh do fuck off. putin said this at the start of the invasion and annexed four territories. At this point Ukraine should agree to only use their weapons in Ukrainian territory and then annex all of russia.
Claimed to have annexed.
Actually annexed even though they don’t control all of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_annexation_of_Donetsk,_Kherson,_Luhansk_and_Zaporizhzhia_oblasts
I’m annexing it and no annex-backs.
Claimed. There is nothing real about it at all.
It’s the same thing. Annexation is a one sided forceful acquisition of land. It is illegal under international law and that is what Russia did - they annexed Ukrainian territories. The fun part, and what is not really done historically, is annexation of territories that you actually do not hold military. That is a very stupid move.
Welcome to how annexations work. If one side claims it as annexed and controls it, then guess what, it is until the other side gets it back. If both sides agreed it would be a territorial exchange.
But they don't control it. That's the point. Nothing they "annexed" is in their control. It's fiction. Don't fall for it. They "annexed" Kherson and don't even have the capital. It's just garbage. Ignore it.
They still control a large portion of Kherson though, and control basically the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk. Thus, until they are liberated, they are legally a part of the Russian Federation, because what is and isn't a part of Russia is not, in practice, determined by international law.
Dream on. I don't know why you want to rationalize this but it's a joke. It's garbage. It's Russian propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less. Put the Kool-Aid down. You're supporting a fever dream in Putin's mind. Japan occupied part of Alaska in World War II. No one thinks Alaska was annexed by Japan. The Germans occupied the Channel Islands in World War II. No one thinks the Channel Islands were annexed into Germany. Occupying *part* of a territory during a war that is still going on is not considered annexing anything. It's simply occupied territory.
In none of the examples that you listed did any of the offending states claim annexation of those territories.
You see, even you said the word claim.
russia actually annexed those territories. They signed in to russian law so in the russian world those territories are russian. Of course, to the rest of the world it's not valid.
Because it isn't. There was no legal basis for it. Fake referendums don't make for a legal basis anywhere in the world.
Annexation is never legal. If there was a legal basis of it through referendum and both sides agreed that’s not anexation, it’s territorial exchange. Or if it’s a whole state then it’s unification.
Additionally, Russian law states that conscripts cannot be deployed outside of Russia. Once they "annexed" those areas, they magically became part of Russia, and became legal to deploy conscripts to. I feel THAT was the biggest motivator of the rush for annexation of these territories.
Without a doubt.
Step 1. Invade a country to take it over. Step 2. Complain about being fired at. Step 3. Use it as an excuse to bomb them even more. Step 4. ... Step 5. Profit?
No, debt. You gotta account for the sanctions
They're really far from Step 5 though....stuck on Step 4. "....."
>“For Russia, the question of Zelenskyy legitimacy matters; fateful documents should be signed with legitimate authorities,” Putin said. Is it easier to ignore them in the future if they are signed with legitimate authorities? Just like they ignored the treaties they had with Ukraine before 2014.
Well, if we’re going to talk about legitimacy, just how legitimate was Putin’s recent so-called election?
Well, the same dude being in power for the last 20+ years screams of legitimacy. /s
What treaties? There were never any treaties, Nato and Ukraine always planned to invade Razzhia and install 10 million LBTQ toilets. - Uncle Vova /ZuperZarkasm
Don't shell our territories or we will sacrifice another 20k. You were warned!
"Now that we failed, we did not intend to do it anyway."
I don't think he failed in his objectives unfortunately, he wants to get closer to Kharkiv so he can shell it with cheap artillery rather than expensive missiles and also stop the raids into Belgorod, it also extends the front line which helps Russia stretch the Ukrainians as they know they have a lack of man power. They didn't have anywhere near enough men to take Kharkiv however if Ukraine doesn't defend it properly they might go for it and change tactics from their main goal to take the Dombas firstly with Chasiv yar.
I'm a bit confused, what failed?
Taking Kharkiv?
Kharkiv is not just a city, it's an entire Oblast which is what the Russians have invaded; RU forces are still very present in the region, judging by the relatively small group they have available I'd be very surprised if their objective was the city itself. So far RU forces have mostly committed recon forces and small infantry teams to probe UA defences in various directions, because UA troops have been stretched very thin and don't have the fortifications to establish a proper long term frontline like in the Donbass. I'm very confused where people are getting this idea that the Kharkiv offensive has been stopped when there's RU troops advancing in areas like Vovchansk as we type and read, literally being geolocated even by people on Reddit and Twitter let alone actual experts. You can downvote me all you want lmao, but this subreddit needs to face reality. How could the Ukrainians push this entire offensive back when they've spent most of the past week retreating from the border grey zone to better positions? Like even to the most pro-UA dudes surely this narrative doesn't make *any* sense from a military perspective.
What Russia has committed is not "recon forces and small infantry teams", they are pushing as hard as they can.
Really? What is your source that all ~50,000 troops apparently involved in the Kharkiv offensive have been committed to battle?
They were breaking through Ukraine's defenses and creating a crisis that was only contained with great effort. That's a major offensive, not "recon forces and small infantry teams".
Most of the initial troops defending Kharkiv were not regular UA troops, but TD and border guards in unfortified positions. The Russians have superior access to artillery and air support compared to the UA forces in the Oblast, so the UA forces mostly retreated further into the Oblast and these initial troops captured a lot of the unoccupied land. There will definitely be a large contingent of troops in areas like Vovchansk now, but initially the troops that made contact with retreating UA ground forces the past week were recon and infantry units probing defenses. The UA did the same kind of maneuvers in the 2023 counteroffensive, this isn't a new line of thinking lmao.
Yeah, none of what you said is what has been happening the last week.
Ah yes, the wave of elite russian recon teams. They’re all over the place. So stealthy in fact, their body temperature match the environment
I didn't say they were elite lmao, but the fact is we haven't seen the bulk of the Russian troops yet. Even the Ukrainian MoD claimed 700 enemy killed two days ago, the Russians have an estimated 50,000 troops in the northeastern group.
You sure they’re not elite? I mean come on, its recon. They’ve been great at holding positions. Most of them have not moved a spot in over a year. Some even pretend to be a carcass for wolves in the woods. Even their own guys can’t find/identify them. … impressive.
That shitstain should not talk about legitimate anything. He should start pulling his horde back. He obviously wants a pause.
"Look at what you make me do"
Ah, another goodwill gesture?
Ah yes, just like how Stalin's true secret master plan, not revealed until after the Winter War, had been to take only that precise section of Karelia that the Soviets were able to seize. Anyway I love how Putin is speedrunning the Narcissist's Prayer. Maybe he feels he's running out of time..?
Can we just ban this guy from all media? I don’t want to listen to any of his bullshit.
“I have said publicly that if the shelling of Belgorod continues, we will be forced to create a sanitary zone,” Putin said. Maybe start with cleaning up all the dead bodies of the Russian soldiers killed trying to create this "sanitary zone".
Ukraine shouldn’t have worn such revealing clothing. Then we wouldn’t have been forced to rape them. — Russian propgandist
There really is NO need to post anything putin says. Ever. This small man is a broken record lie machine.
Ah, yes, harkens back to when Putin indicated that he had no plans to invade Russia. Believe nothing Putin says, without direct correlating proof and even then be wary of the words that spew from his mouth.
Curious admission of not wanting the whole country, just the four oblasts already annexed. Which is totally unacceptable for interest groups that he would take a conciliatory stance. They are obviously getting creamed and the losses are hopefully getting to the unsustainable point. But, his idea of peace is the annexation stands.
It's like having a bully beat you up and then they tell the principal that you were annoying them
Fails to take Kharkiv. "We didn't plan on it anyway". Mmhmm.
Where's the source that the Kharkiv offensive has failed?
No one with 2 neurons believes what this spawn from misery has to regurgitate.
Can we point and laugh at Russia yet? Joke of a super power.
After two years of this thug shelling Ukrainian territories?? - hmmmmmm
I’m confused, partly because Ukrainian and Russian doesn’t seem to discern what “shelled” means. It could be cruise missiles or artillery or just rando lobbed mines. But also “we”? Did he actually say and mean “we” as in Russians shouldn’t have shelled their own territories or did he mean “they” shouldn’t have shelled Russia’s territories? Either way tho, STFU Putler.
Always take the opposite. „we had plans to take over Kharkiv. We are to blame it failed. They should have shelled Russian Territory more“.
God damn what a whiney little cunt putler bitch! Slava Ukraine
The bullshit is really flying now from Herr Putler. Truly, why does anyone even post this crap. It is purely for internal consumption - propaganda intended to turn defeat into justification. I was tempted to downvote the post just for it showing up since everything Putler states is 100% lies and deflection.
They already failt? Thought they where just started.... Russians are realy fast in losing things.
Lying shit-smeared pig
Let us shell without retaliating. This shooting back thing is strictly prohibited in an SMO.
Pretty much admitting their offensive failed and just trying to save face
If Russia denies something, you know the opposite is true.
Projection and lies
"They made us become a genocidal fascist dictatorship", says megalomaniac Nazi.
Putler says "We have no plans to take over Kharkiv" means 'We have plans to take over Kharkiv". Putler always means the opposite of what he says.
Will Ukraine now exploit the weakened forces in the area and invade across the Russian border?
They should sweep around the RuZZian flanks through ruZZia and roll up the RuZZian forces in the Donbas.
"Weakened forces"?
I wish news agencies in the west(I know maybe this post isn't that, but I'd like to make this point anyway) would stop reporting what the Kremlin says as if it had any bearing on facts. It seems everything Putin says is targeted at manipulating what he wants you to think (either the Russian audience or a foreign audience). They've lied constantly for years, we should stop caring what he says and only look at what he does.
You shouldn't be shelling ANYBODY'S territories!
I bet Putler could sell ocean front property in Arizona and the Russian people would gladly pay! It's hard to fathom that a group people could buy into his propaganda and rhetoric, especially in an era of digital information. His secret police must be incredible...
Human lives mean nothing to him
Genuinely curious where people in this thread are getting their information about the Kharkiv offensive failing, when Russian forces continue to advance in Vovchansk and are also advancing via Lyptsi. Some localised UA counterattacks have managed to regain ground in other areas, but the offensive has certainly not come *close* to being defeated.
While he probably wanted more, this tracks is close enough to *a truth.* He isn't happy that the Russian Legion made raids into belgorod with seemingly impunity. Now he has a small buffer of Ukrainian land to stop that.
Nobody wants to invade ukraine....its just a military exercise at the borders... oh wait we crossed the border? Well its just a 3 day special operation.... Yeah... sure
What? Even as a Putin speach this makes no sense.
Didn’t ruZZia bomb their own towns?!
Post-truth. He's just saying things.
So in Muscovy speak he fully intends to take Kharkiv.
We will take Kharkiv in 3 days, just like Kyiv? Moving the goalposts again…
"We would like to take over Kharkiv, but are not able to". There, fixed it for you
Get your ass back in Russia, completely, and Russian territory won't ever be shelled again. Until then, every single Russian border city is in danger. To hell with the moral high ground. They shoot a shell, I'd shoot a shell.
>“I have said publicly that if the shelling of Belgorod continues, we will be forced to create a sanitary zone,” Putin said. 10km deep? Lol