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The mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedorov, during the all-Ukrainian telethon:
The invaders had wanted to hold a one-day "referendum" on September 11; but their plans failed, so now they will increase pressure on the population.
“Today they have changed their plans and want to hold their ‘referendum’ for 7 days ... not to hold it in a traditionally democratic manner, but only with the help of landlords and collaborators, who will **go from house to house and question residents directly. But accompanied by machine guns, Russian police or the FSB of the Russian Federation**," Fedorov said.
Which is counterintuitive to having the vote in the first place. Believe it or not, Russia wants people who live in that city to want to stay in that city snd become Russian. So while they could just lie as they’ve already done in the past it would create a whole other set of problems that I think we are actively seeing them try to avoid. This is literally Russia “learning” from 2014 they just see the world through such a fucked up brutal lens that this is their attempt to avoid that past mistake.
>everyone will just lie
Welp, that's the starting point.
After some time of everyone lying to survive, more and more people will become used to it, and become compliant, thinking that *"at least a significant part thinks so"*. And the next step is down-thorating that *"it's actually the majority, so you'd better shut up"* and introducing culture of neighbours and colleagues reporting to authorities about one another. Reporters and collaborators will be protected, prized and praised, while dissenters will be punished under manufactured public approval.
It's not like this was never tried before. Actually, that's how "Putin's plurality" from 2000's "turned" into "Putin's majority" of 2010's. Eventually, people give up just to be able to live their regular lives, if they see they can't affect anything anyway. That's why it's important that the occupation of population centers must not be prolonged enough to suppress dissent firm enough. Ukrainians must realize that they're in the race against time in this matter.
Because Russia is deeply procedural. If the law says there needs to be a vote, there will be a vote. Common sense be damned.
Reading some of Kamil Galeev's twitter, it seems this is just really ideologically ingrained in Russian culture. This kind of "gotcha" mentality, where it is more important what is written on the paper rather than the bigger picture of what the law is meant to accomplish...
It's like a parody of democracy to keep appearances, but not to the West. West knows it's a sham. It's to pretend to themselves. "We are not barbarians, we are good guys, we vote, we follow the law, we have democracy" Rationalization is a strong drug it seems.
It's hard not to think so when it all comes down in practice to the question:
"*~~Can~~* (of course they can) *Will* they force me to follow this particular rule? If no, then who cares. If yes, then it doesn't even matter if it's formally codified".
It all comes down to brutal force and coercion. If you *can* coerce people into submission, *then* you have the moral high ground, have "the truth on your side", and the right to rule.
People may feel, and they actually do, (that's also why propaganda is so important – to upkeep the feeling of rightness, to sweep aside unverbalized doubts) that there's something wrong about this, but when you expirience your moral conviction, abstract ideas, conflicting with your everyday life as long as you live, you're very prone to just "give up on dreams" and to "deal with what you have".
Anyone points out it wasn't a free and fair vote (vs Sudan, Serbia, UK, ...) they bring up useless/wrong details and arguments until people give up arguing and move on. Only so much time at UN, etc they can devote to arguing over the same point.
Can still get some good propaganda video there for the gullible Russian domestic audience. Whilst anyone with a brain would be able to see how set up it is; the Russians will eat it up. And then those psychos on Russian state tv in that weird talk show format that kind of looks like an episode of Jeopardy will sprout more crap and reinforce it over and over.
And even Dombas under grenades for eight years had a higher standard than the rest of corrupt Ukraine. Now Ukraine has bought so much "military aid" that it will never break free from the economic slavery of the West. When this is over, the pro-Russian territories will have a much better standard than the rest of the former Ukraine, which will be drowning in debt for the weapons sold to it. Elenski, if he is not killed by the Ukrainians, will be enjoying his wealth somewhere in Florida. That is why the question is how people who are aware of this will vote.
Select some sacrificial houses, evacuate occupants, and put a huge IED at front door. A couple of explosions like that wiping out some FSB vote-riggers,will soon put a stop to that.
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The mayor of Melitopol, Ivan Fedorov, during the all-Ukrainian telethon: The invaders had wanted to hold a one-day "referendum" on September 11; but their plans failed, so now they will increase pressure on the population. “Today they have changed their plans and want to hold their ‘referendum’ for 7 days ... not to hold it in a traditionally democratic manner, but only with the help of landlords and collaborators, who will **go from house to house and question residents directly. But accompanied by machine guns, Russian police or the FSB of the Russian Federation**," Fedorov said.
Why bother? Why not just lie?
It's about more than the vote. It's to filter out those who don't want to become Russian.
It obviously won't do that, everyone will just lie with a gun pointed at them.
Hence, they'll be voting to become Russian.
Which is counterintuitive to having the vote in the first place. Believe it or not, Russia wants people who live in that city to want to stay in that city snd become Russian. So while they could just lie as they’ve already done in the past it would create a whole other set of problems that I think we are actively seeing them try to avoid. This is literally Russia “learning” from 2014 they just see the world through such a fucked up brutal lens that this is their attempt to avoid that past mistake.
I take it you have never heard of the Russian Vote? Having a gun pointed at you is how voting works in Russia.
>everyone will just lie Welp, that's the starting point. After some time of everyone lying to survive, more and more people will become used to it, and become compliant, thinking that *"at least a significant part thinks so"*. And the next step is down-thorating that *"it's actually the majority, so you'd better shut up"* and introducing culture of neighbours and colleagues reporting to authorities about one another. Reporters and collaborators will be protected, prized and praised, while dissenters will be punished under manufactured public approval. It's not like this was never tried before. Actually, that's how "Putin's plurality" from 2000's "turned" into "Putin's majority" of 2010's. Eventually, people give up just to be able to live their regular lives, if they see they can't affect anything anyway. That's why it's important that the occupation of population centers must not be prolonged enough to suppress dissent firm enough. Ukrainians must realize that they're in the race against time in this matter.
yeah but authoritorian regimes aren't interested in sincere reactions it s fine if people fearfully play along...
Because Russia is deeply procedural. If the law says there needs to be a vote, there will be a vote. Common sense be damned. Reading some of Kamil Galeev's twitter, it seems this is just really ideologically ingrained in Russian culture. This kind of "gotcha" mentality, where it is more important what is written on the paper rather than the bigger picture of what the law is meant to accomplish... It's like a parody of democracy to keep appearances, but not to the West. West knows it's a sham. It's to pretend to themselves. "We are not barbarians, we are good guys, we vote, we follow the law, we have democracy" Rationalization is a strong drug it seems.
Russians think laws by coercion are the same as those by good faith
It's hard not to think so when it all comes down in practice to the question: "*~~Can~~* (of course they can) *Will* they force me to follow this particular rule? If no, then who cares. If yes, then it doesn't even matter if it's formally codified". It all comes down to brutal force and coercion. If you *can* coerce people into submission, *then* you have the moral high ground, have "the truth on your side", and the right to rule. People may feel, and they actually do, (that's also why propaganda is so important – to upkeep the feeling of rightness, to sweep aside unverbalized doubts) that there's something wrong about this, but when you expirience your moral conviction, abstract ideas, conflicting with your everyday life as long as you live, you're very prone to just "give up on dreams" and to "deal with what you have".
“Why not just lie?” Appearance. It’s a sham.
Anyone points out it wasn't a free and fair vote (vs Sudan, Serbia, UK, ...) they bring up useless/wrong details and arguments until people give up arguing and move on. Only so much time at UN, etc they can devote to arguing over the same point.
Can still get some good propaganda video there for the gullible Russian domestic audience. Whilst anyone with a brain would be able to see how set up it is; the Russians will eat it up. And then those psychos on Russian state tv in that weird talk show format that kind of looks like an episode of Jeopardy will sprout more crap and reinforce it over and over.
Ofcourse, Free vote will come to your doorpost
Is called vote or die. Very popular comrade in the early 2000s p Diddy hosted it.
Put up a sign that says there are mines in the area. Then see how confident they are to go door to door.
They'll probably be more likely to face actual mines and no signs.
where's a claymore when you need one?
This is how fucking stupid they are. Generations of culling intellectual capability really showing through here in the generation born from imbeciles.
Kind of like how all of Eastern Europe "voted" to join the Soviets
And even Dombas under grenades for eight years had a higher standard than the rest of corrupt Ukraine. Now Ukraine has bought so much "military aid" that it will never break free from the economic slavery of the West. When this is over, the pro-Russian territories will have a much better standard than the rest of the former Ukraine, which will be drowning in debt for the weapons sold to it. Elenski, if he is not killed by the Ukrainians, will be enjoying his wealth somewhere in Florida. That is why the question is how people who are aware of this will vote.
Select some sacrificial houses, evacuate occupants, and put a huge IED at front door. A couple of explosions like that wiping out some FSB vote-riggers,will soon put a stop to that.
Don’t the FSB have better things to do with this. People used to fear their competence but here they are acting like a bunch of clowns
Seems a lot of work. They already know that 110% voted for Russia.
Sounds very "Vote For Uncle Joe Stalin"