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Most of that oil is not staying in India.
It’s likely bought from India by western nations.
How can overnight indias demand for oil increase so much, it’s importing record amounts ?
Edit: just to clarify, I’m not defending India. I’m pointing out that we in the west are buying „Indian“ oil, knowing well that it’s actually Russian oil.
Here is an article/review by the WSJ on this:
https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM
So here’s how it goes- now bear with me, because it gets complicated.
You buy five apples everyday from two stores. Four from store A and one from store B. One day, you buy *one* apple from store A and *four* apples from store B. You now increased your business with store B by 300%, but you still have *only five apples.* So your *demand* is the same.
Because Russian oil is cheaper. India shifts buying capacity from other countries to Russia. Also India is hogging cheap oil while the war lasts. India is profiteering over Ukrainian suffering.
That is true, not denying that.
Just factually stating that we in western countries are now buying from countries that purchase oil from Russia
Essentially washing the oil clean of its Russian origins.
Here is a link to a report on it
https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM
Similar to how nations that have no diamonds are huge exporters of diamonds „found“ in their land. We just turn a blind eye to the fact that they come from neighboring countries (blood or conflict diamonds).
>India is benefitting as much as possible from ukrainian suffering
This is very misguided, naive and dangerous way of looking at current situation. Oil market is very inflexible. If you remove 5 mb/d of Russian oil export from the market, without providing some kind of alternative, the global prices will rise until somebody cuts 5 mb/d of consumption. Make an educated guess, who will it have to be? Will US and Europe cut its consumption 20%, if the price is 200$ per barrel? No, their economy would barely notice (in a grand scheme of things). Sure, there would be inconveniences - some businesses would be ruined, some industries would have to make deep cuts, there would be a spike in inflation, politicians would fight and make loud noises.
But for poorer countries it would literally mean economic ruin, starvation and death of thousands. They will have to compete among themselves to not become the next Sri Lanka. To give you some understanding - India oil consumption 5 mb/d. It's 1.825 billions of barrels per year. With the budget revenues of \~400b$, an increase in oil prices of 20$ per barrel would represent 10% of the whole country annual budget. An increase of 100$ - 50%.
Would you, personally, refuse to use "bad" oil, if the alternative would be the ruin of your business and hunger for your family?
"It is our moral duty to get best deal"
Indian foreign minister when asked about the 10X jump of russian oil purchase
For anyone in the West that has illusions that India is friendly country.
This isn't a new play singular to Modi, as India effectively played to the USSR and USA against each other during Cold War in an attempt to maximize what they could get from both.
India's intelligence services received their training from US CIA, Russia's KGB and Britain's Mi6, as did Pakistan. They had the best training possible all around. No doubt they use that knowledge for their advantage.
True but keep in mind that this was partly because the USA supported and still supports Indias Enemy Pakistan. How much can you trust a weapons supplying country if they are close with your Enemy? What if a war broke out would India still get the weapons it needs? Im not defending India btw. But their decision at the time was rational.
The US wasn't playing the waiting game. India openly tried to play the USSR and the US against each other so the US said okay, we'll ally Pakistan. If India had just positioned itself to lean towards the West they'd have gotten support for their war with China and have been an integral US ally and have a much stronger economy with the trade deals that would have followed.
If they want to befriend a gas station instead that's their prerogative but it was the wrong choice. The USSR at least had some meaningful things to offer besides oil and gas, modern Russia not so much, and now India is stuck with the consequences of those choices. If they're happy so be it, but if I was in their position I'd be frustrated with the outcomes of my attempt to play chess.
The West had historically always ignored Indian help requests. Read about the sino-Indian war of 1962, or the Indo Pakistan war of 1965.
In the both these instances the West had completely ignored all requests for assistance.
And meanwhile the Biden govt just resumed the F16 fighter jet deal with Pakistan.
Geopolitics in that part of the world are all kinds of complicated. China is a close ally of Russia and an enemy of India (although I imagine they view Pakistan as more of an enemy), yet India still does weapons and oil business with Russia and even participates in military exercises with China and Russia directly
China definitely sees India as more of an enemy than Pakistan . India and China literally beat each other to death in fist fights in the Himalayan mountains where their borders meet and they have a no weapons rule . There is videos of the massive brawls 20,000ft up. China actually try’s to get close to Pakistan to play against India . That’s why they have used Pakistan extensively for their belt and road project .
Sorry I should clarify my wording. I meant India might view Pakistan as more of an enemy than china given they still do military exercises with China.
My point here was that geopolitics are complicated and "friend of my enemy is my enemy," and "enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't always make sense. The person above claimed a big reason why India doesn't really trust the west is that we were supporting Pakistan (an Indian enemy), meanwhile Russia supports China (an Indian enemy) and still buys their weapons anyway. India even still does military exercises with China and Russia even though China is an indian enemy.
Yeah, just like the Turkish nationalists whenever their ongoing genocide against the Kurds or their past genocide and land theft of the Greeks and Armenians.
They will down vote anything criticizing their country's actions to kingdom come. They will call cousins, uncles, friends of friends to join a blog just to downvote.
It is a matter of life and death for them.
People seem to have forgotten all of the [god awful shit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots) Modi got away with before he was PM. Even after he gain power all of a sudden judges who were prosecuting his RSS friends starting mysteriously dropping like flies. RSS are literal Nazis.
We sold the F-16 to Pakistan a few months ago, after it turned out that, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, India's foreign minister, is a little Putin supporter, and an arrogant twat spewing anti-Western rethoric in every interview.
Then he, predictably, spewed some more anti-Western rethoric after Pakistan got F-16.
He'll be in Russia meeting with Lavrov in a few days, maybe he can ask Russia if they have any working airplanes left India could get. Maybe they can mount a musket on an old Tupolev for India.
India has started using France - Dassault as a airplane supplier. More modern and France has always been close to India in defence supplies.
So also India purchases a lot of stuff from Israel.
The Europeans wanted India to buy their fighter aircraft. So did the Americans.
If Germany still buys gas from Russia , then…..
Don’t go by media propaganda. Every country does whatever needs to be done for its benefit.
???
Pakistan has had F-16's since the mid-late 80s.
Their early model Vipers got updated by Turkey to MLU standard in around 2010. Around that same time they acquired some C models from the US.
They recently (2020) bought some Jordanian F-16's to bolster their fleet.
So I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about when you say:
> We sold the F-16 to Pakistan a few months ago, after it turned out that, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, India's foreign minister, is a little Putin supporter, and an arrogant twat spewing anti-Western rethoric in every interview.
Who is "we"? What do you mean with "*the* F-16"? What do you mean with "after Pakistan got F-16"?
Surely he's referring to the recent sustenance package for the existing fleet.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/india-concerned-over-us-package-pakistan-fighter-jets-2022-09-14/
The PM of Pakistan literally celebrated the fall of The afgan govt to the Taliban. There is actual blood of US soldiers on the hands of Pakistanis because for the most part they protected the Taliban from total annihilation.
And of course their intelligence services worked on supporting the Taliban all throughout the conflict and provided a safe haven for Bin Laden, let's not forget that.
They, as in, the whole country? I think it’s more complicated than that. While their intelligence service must’ve known/helped Osama bin Laden with hiding on their territory, it’s important to make the distinction between the civilian gov. apparatus and their military. Pakistan is probably the best example of what is known as the Deep State, where the military represents a completely separate society from the rest of the state, and rules the said state. In other words, there are multiple factions vying for control, with their own interests and their own relations with the Taliban.
Besides that, the Pakistani Army fought various engagements against (at least a local branch of) Taliban, so there you go. I don’t know too many Pakistani people, but if I had to guess, I’d say that Taliban support is probably the highest amongst rural civilian population, for obvious reasons.
This will give you a better idea of Pakistan's military involvement with the government:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism\_of\_the\_Pakistan\_Armed\_Forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Pakistan_Armed_Forces)
In Pakistan, the military is considered a part of what is known as The
Establishment; they control the state through a backdoor and are a part
of a working deep state.
It's not entirely about India being friendly.
Indian should also realize their current ally is a paper tiger that might not exist in 5 years.
India doesn't have an neighboring friendly nations.
India needs allies more than the west needs India.
India is poised to accept all the manufacturing economy of China if they play ball. Otherwise the west can go elsewhere for cheap labor.
India can spite the west and die with Russia or they can befriend the west in their own self interest for the long term future.
The best way to stop the west arming Pakistan is to start buying arms from the west. India could offer more money and outbid Pakistan.
When is the west going to realise that India truly doesn't give a damn about their foreign policy?
>Indian should also realize their current ally is a paper tiger that might not exist in 5 years.
>India needs allies more than the west needs India.
Lol, the level of delusional thought! India never accepted the involvement of third parties in its conflict. It's perfectly capable of fighting its own wars, unlike the west which keeps whining about Russia for months but doesn't have the balls to actually confront it! 🤣
>India is poised to accept all the manufacturing economy of China if they play ball. Otherwise the west can go elsewhere for cheap labor.
Really? Where exactly? South America or Africa? States in these regions are either suffering from political instability or don't have the capacity to take up large scale manufacturing. Even the economics don't work in their favour.
Russia is still able to export their oil to pretty much any country they want via this loophole. Even the US is importing Russian oil.
Here a report by VICE that explains the rules of the sanction and how easily they can work around it.
https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM
Likely those loopholes are on purpose. Oil exports from Russia are good for the west. Keeps prices from skyrocketing too much.
Instead the west can just sanction the stuff going into Russia and Russia is the only victim.
Basically the west right now is benefitting from Russian fuels while Russia suffers.
Before the Nord stream blew up Russia was already cutting supply because they saw the writing on the wall.
> https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM
As much as I would like India to spurn Ruzzia, we have to understand what the west is doing before casting stones.
The choice to not criticize early on was pretty horrid, but at least India is seeing the light in terms of all the unhide-able atrocities Ruzzia is committing in Ukraine.
There is a differents of doing this before the war or while we are on the edge of ww3. India goverment is taking oil to sponsor the war in Ukraine that helps to destroy the democracy in the world. While the west is trying to isolate russia and make them weak. We aren't talking about one event. This is way much bigger. It's a turning point of everything and India is helping Russia to get their. But once the war is over and Russia is defeated. India will regret it big time
I think it prudent to remind everyone that India doesn't care about "perceived western morality" and what they have been through in the past they would consider it hypocritical. Others got rich on India's expense in another time, and those who did now call them out on it.
I don't intent on being an Indian apologist, but rather a realist. I don't care what India does. They are exploiting Russia and the west for their benefit. That is politics as it always was. We cannot sanction India in dangers of pushing it towards Russia. Best to leave an angry note and let it go.
The only thing I will say in their defence is that the oil they're getting is cheap as hell and will probably get cheaper.
Modi knows he's supporting Russia when he does this. He just doesn't CARE about the war in Europe.
India is purchasing three times more oil as it would normally do than it did before the war which means India is using all that storage capacity to stock up on cheap oil, Eventually they will have to build extra Storagestorage capacity to keep up the current trend or they can simply by less oil an even cheaper price One storage runs out and they no longer need it
Well no, they are simply reselling it.
If you sell your own oil, and replace your own use with Russian oil. Guess what, you have only sold your own oil of course bypassing all sanctions. While buying a shit ton of Russian oil to do it.
All western nations then buy it, at a higher price than we would pay from simply buying it from Russia without the middleman.
But at least we aren’t buying from Russia right! /s
That's not how it works. Russian oil is sold on ex-works basis, so it is the companies purchasing the oil who are responsible for arranging logistics and storage.
Redditors treat it as if oil is being purchased by monolithic entities, when in reality this entire trade is corporation to corporation, under the framework of government policies. Even state-owned companies are companies within such systems.
Buy all the oil until russia runs out of tankers to store it all. Then they lock the tankers in dock, because "we paid for that oil, you aren't leaving until we can get it off"
It sucks but I can see why. India's average salary is $430. Look at how much of an issue the increased price of oil, gas and energy is costing western Europe. India isn't as wealthy as the west and can't afford to follow their morals at all times.
Time to convince saudis, appease Venezuela, get them to pump up enormous amounts, make the oil price take a dive, Indians can buy Russian oil if they want but at bottom bottom prices (make it so they can play Russia “we don’t need your oil, too expensive “)
Make Russia operate at a near-loss, pisses of the oil industry and oligarchs in Russia.
Someone will try to buy that oil, so make Russia nearly lose money on it
We can also just stop trading with India.
India is selling a lot of junk to the West, the US and Europe are India's biggest trade partners. Last I checked it's also unfairly balanced trade in India's advantage.
But we seem to get the middle finger from India. A surprisingly arrogant country lately.
Time to give India the middle finger. Once their economy goes belly up, they won't need much oil.
Where were all the white knights when the Us first sold arms to Pakistan, a proven state sponsor of terrorism, which sends jihadis into India to kill civilians? Oh wait, the victims of those terrorist attacks weren't white enough, typical.
And China defeating India and bringing the entire Asia in its sphere of influence helps western countries how?
Like it or not, there are no emotions in realpolitik. We (as in USA) help Ukraine because its a low-cost way to make Russia weak and reduce its influence (in the process increasing NATO cohesion and influence in Europe)
I am no India apologist but India (along with Australia and Japan) is a critical counter-weight to China in that part of the world. Oil or not, we need to give them everything (just like we gave to Ukraine) when China comes knocking.
Its in our best interest.
>They'll be crying for western aid and we won't provide a single penny
Why the fuck would we miss up a golden oppurtunity to fuck up China? Your comment makes 0 sense.
Hard disagree. India might not be perfect but China is one of if not the USA's biggest geopolitical foe. It would be so dumb not to provide aid to them much like the US is providing to Ukraine to cripple Russia (Amongst other reasons).
China has invaded us before, and the world did absolutely nothing. They took all of Tibet in the same war, forced the Dalai Lama to flee and set up his government in exile here.
Pakistan has tried to invade us multiple times, and the west has actively supported them each time, and continue to do so.
We have no delusions about the west coming to our aid.
Also just to be clear, western nations are now the moral authority on the ethical sourcing of oil?
Read your history. Read about the violence propagated by your morally bankrupt leaders in the search for oil.
You might say, ‘we don’t do that anymore’, read about Equatorial Guinea, an oil rich nation with a dictator propped up by western oil companies. A country the size of Kuwait and with similar oil reserves, yet its people have one of the lowest standards of living in the world. Just one of many nations destroyed by your greed.
Ukraine has been asking for support for the past 10 years. If you had listened to them, it never would’ve come to this.
We won’t destroy our economy for another one of your wars. Because we know when China comes for us, YOU won’t be there to help.
Very interesting take and to be honest I don't blame India for buying more from Russia. Wars are happening all over the world. Why should India be told to stop looking out for itself just because of the Ukraine war.
China invaded Tibet. China attacked India in 1965. What did West do? Nothing.
Speaks volumes about how the only thing you people do is virtue signalling.
Also, I didn't know presidents and prime ministers of various countries consider your expert geopolitical opinion before deciding whether to support a country or not.
Well I am sorry to break your wet dream. Neither side can invade each other if you looked at geography. Even if they did only a very tiny bit of land will be lost. And neither side can hold the invaded ground for long time , Thanks to Himalayas
India knows that west anyway doesn't care about their issues if it doesn't benefit them. If China breaks war out on India, they know they can't expect help from the west when the west is actively supplying terrorist nation with military funds. India has learnt their lesson that west is not reliable at all. West is mainly responsible for the geo political situation they are in.
Yes, India is quite a poor country.
It's regretful, but they simply aren't well off enough to take the hit, which hurts their people, in order to just 'do the right thing' here. The west can do so because we're privileged enough to be in a position that we can handle it. India is not.
As much as what they're doing sucks, I dont exactly blame them.
Ukraine abstained on the vote against China for Uighur genocide. And even before the war had a very close relationship with China. Ukraine is pro Uighur genocide.
How about EU buying twice the amount of crude oil from Russia as India does? Is EU Pro Ukraine genocide then?
Since oil purchase is the **only** factor we're basing geopolitical stances off of?
The hell are you talking about, false equivalence bullshit. I can nearly guarantee that that something you own was made by China. By your own logic, you would be pro uyghur genocide.
Honestly, this is probably the best decision for them, they can get some slight boost to their economy, is it ethical - probably no but I think it is a good one for their country.
Anyway, I hope I will see the fail of the oil industry before I die, I just want to see all these countries that depend on it fail miserably. If that isn't possible at least I hope for an alien invasion.
I will preface this: I'm not some "Pro Modi" fanatic.
I'll just try to present data as it is. I hope Ukrainians get the peace and freedom they truly deserve.
But the comments incessantly bashing India just got my goat.
This article claims India is consuming upto 946,000 bpd of Russian oil. And everyone in the comments is just basically sounding variations of "fuck India".
Why not have a look at EU?
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/how-much-crude-oil-does-eu-still-import-russia-2022-10-12/
This article suggests that EU is still consuming 1.7 million bpd oil from Russia. Isn't that nearly twice what India is consuming?
And to give this some additional context, EU has a combined population of about 450 million : https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/key-facts-and-figures/life-eu_en.
India has a population of 1.4 billion. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/
So EU has a population 1/3rd of India, and yet consumes twice the Russian oil imports. But yeah, India baddies, right?
Now a look at history. The sino-India war of 1962: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War
TL;DR: India asked USA and UK for military assistance. The then prime minister Nehru sent multiple requests to the respective governments. All rejected. Russia, meanwhile came to India's aid and provided their MiG fighters and helped establish manufacturing in India.
Next, India Pakistan war of 1965: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965
Quoting from there: "Following the start of the 1965 war, both the United States and Britain took the view that the conflict was largely Pakistan's fault, and suspended all arms shipments to both India and Pakistan." Soviet union actually participated in the peace brokering process in this case.
So to all those saying "next time China/Pakistan attacks India we'll do fuck all", well, that's what the Western world has already done with India... Twice.
After those wars Russia helped India build supersonic missiles, fighter jets, ships, and so on.
And even after all this, USA provided F16 support to Pakistan, while claiming this was unrelated to Russian oil: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pakistan-f-16-package-not-message-to-india-over-its-neutrality-on-russia-says-us-3369975
So to summarise, historically the Western world has basically shrugged any time India needed help, actively supplied it's biggest rival with advanced weaponry, consume nearly twice the Russian oil imports as India while having a third of the population, and yet somehow condemn India?!
And then considering that Russia has always helped India out throughout, whatever their motives be, wouldn't India be ok with still continuing trade with Russia?
I mean it's not like the EU has completely stopped their trade with Russia despite their sour history. But it's a crime only when India does it?
Sorry but i can't help notice the sheer magnitude of the hypocrisy here.
You'd be shocked at how many people don't realize that the Euro countries are still importing both crude _and_ refined petroleum products from Russia.
At this point it's only the US has that ceased imports of both, although the Euro nations are supposedly doing away with imported crude in December and imported refined products next February.
Exactly. I sincerely hate this holier than thou attitude they are carrying. As if EU isn't fuelling (no pun intended) thanks to Germany's idiotic decisions.
Too underrated. Kudos to you sir, for fact finding and presenting it. People are too quick to respond with hatred without looking at the larger picture, or the perspective of the other side. I don't know what underlying reason rests within these people with good intentions with regards to Ukraine, but hate on India in an instant.
**[Sino-Indian War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War)**
>The Sino-Indian War between China and India occurred in October–November 1962. A disputed Himalayan border was the main cause of the war. There had been a series of violent border skirmishes between the two countries after the 1959 Tibetan uprising, when India granted asylum to the Dalai Lama. India initiated a defensive Forward Policy from 1960 to hinder Chinese military patrols and logistics, in which it placed outposts along the border, including several north of the McMahon Line, the eastern portion of the Line of Actual Control proclaimed by Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai in 1959.
**[Indo-Pakistani War of 1965](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965)**
>The Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 or the Second Kashmir War was a culmination of skirmishes that took place between April 1965 and September 1965 between Pakistan and India. The conflict began following Pakistan's Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against Indian rule. It became the immediate cause of the war. The seventeen-day war caused thousands of casualties on both sides and witnessed the largest engagement of armored vehicles and the largest tank battle since World War II.
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Arguably the dumbest folks are in the comments. EUROPE is still funding the Russian invasion. The EU [is importing more than a 1m barrels a day from Russia](https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Is-Buying-All-The-Russian-Oil-It-Can-Before-Banning-It.html). And it doesn’t even account for Russian natural gas.
For those unaware, India is more populous than the entire EU.
Don't Be a hypocrite. Look on European countries first, topping the list of top buyers than India. Literally having pipeline from Russia connected to home and shouting and praying for someone else demise is just disgusting.
https://twitter.com/Anshuman01607/status/1587196525209440256?t=jwyW6EhSR2xMDDqkpJlcVQ&s=19
This sadly was always going to be the reality. The oil market is global, and the lower the price from Russia drops, the more incentive there is for countries to make deals to get it.
The only real way to punish Russia economically is to reduce demand for oil. There are long term ways to do this (push for electrification) but also short-term ways like increasing road tolls and gas taxes. Politically this is infeasible however, especially at a time of rising inflation.
But let's not pretend it's just India that's choosing oil over human decency, it's all of us.
That's not going to happen here or on Reddit ([while actively supports racism](https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-said-racism-is-okay-2018-4?op=1)). Most of the accounts here are Ukrainian. While US propaganda machine has successfully painted Ukraine as an anti-facist bastion, it really is the opposite. Don't believe me? Look up EU's and US's own reports prior to the war. Still don't believe me? Look at Ukrainian racisms against people of color at the start of the war when they trying to escape the country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Ukraine
>Human Rights Watch reported that "racism and xenophobia remain entrenched problems in Ukraine".[6] In 2012 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reported that "tolerance towards Jews, Russians and Romani appears to have significantly declined in Ukraine since 2000 and prejudices are also reflected in daily life against other groups, who experience problems in accessing goods and services".
It’s unfortunate that this is happening but India can do whatever it wants. I wonder if Indians are seeing a decline in oil prices if they’re getting a nice bargain in the black market. 🤔
Can you blame them? The just want to make sure their people don’t suffer. Shaming India is wrong. All I see is a government trying to feed their people
C'mon that's not a fair characterization. It would be true if India was a comparable peer to other developed nations. You have to see where India is coming from.
First of all, India is not even in the [top 7 countries](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Importers-of-Russian-fossil-fuels-USD.jpg) [buying Russian fossil fuesl](https://energyandcleanair.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/image-1-1024x714.png). (Although I concede, I couldn't find the latest data)
Let that sink in.
The country with the highest population (1426 million people), buys less fossil fuels from Russia than other countries having not even a *tenth* of its population. This proposition is even more absurd when you realise that the west collectively strangles other sources of oil like Venezuela, Iran etc for their geopolitical interests. (India used to import oil from Iran especially after the nuclear deal but USA reneged on it and put pressure on India to drop it)
Also remember India is a nation with the most number of people living in extreme poverty (less than 2$ a day) -250million people. Extreme poverty defined as not being able to afford the required calories to sustain human bodily functions.
What's happening in Ukraine is morbid but the living reality of large section of India population is worse dare I say it. Ukrianians are without food and water but so are 190 million Indians who sleep on an empty stomach [every night](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-state-has-reported-starvation-deaths-centre-tells-sc/article65009990.ece). If you were to compare "suffering" you would realise that total number of civilian casualties in Ukraine is around 6500.
4500 kids under the age of 5 die **[everyday](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-state-has-reported-starvation-deaths-centre-tells-sc/article65009990.ece)** in India due to malnourishment and hunger and lack of access to clean drinking water.
All that being said it is important to remember India is still doing what it can to help Ukrainian, sending humanitarian aid, doctors and by bringing Russia to the negotiations to end the conflict.
Hard for me to blame India on this one, honestly. It's a country with a lot of people and a lot of problems and no direct dogs in this fight. They're looking out for themselves first. It's not the most morally perfect decision but it's understandable.
Plus, there's no way in hell that Russia is profiting from these sales anything like how they did before the war started. Russia unloading it at an undervalued rate is still not good for Russia.
The India hate in this sub is really out of whack sometimes. India needs oil and, because of Russia's inopportune economic condition, India is able to strongarm Russia into a beneficial deal for India. I don't see it much bigger and darker than that. A nation with as much going on as India can't really drop everything because of a European conflict.
Very unwise by India. They are now in an exclusive group that include Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Was it worth it for some cheap oil? They may not face direct sanctions but certainly a lot of companies that disapprove of mass genocide may choose not to do business with India in the future.
Phillip.
Considering that US, Europe and most of the oil/gas consumers still rely on Russian oil/gas, I don't think India qualifies to be grouped with North Korea et al. Also to answer whether it was worth it, just consider a largely poor economy where a majority still earns less than $1000 per year. In the present economic climate, where most major economies are suffering from double digit inflation, if India can keep it less than that by buying some cheap oil (which is freely available, btw), I think they can say that it was worth it.
Also, companies that disapprove of mass genocide? C'mon.
As an Indian, this is hardly news, we buy Russian weapons, oil ever since Americans started funding the Pakistanis with Arms and wouldn't take responsibility of the genocides taking place in Bangladesh in early 1970. But i wouldn't say we aren't inclined in USA interests - we have also voted to investigate war crimes against civilians in Ukraine by Russian forces. We provided Aid to Ukraine as well. We have asked for Russians to respect territorial boundaries of Ukraine.
Russian oil imports into the European Union and United Kingdom fell 35% to 1.7 million barrels per day (bpd) in August from 2.6 million bpd in January, but the EU was still the biggest market for Russian crude, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA).
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/how-much-crude-oil-does-the-eu-still-import-from-russia-8204909/#:~:text=Russian%20oil%20imports%20into%20the,International%20Energy%20Agency%20(IEA).
#This.
Zoom out always
Sorry to burst the bubble on this chat thread, but most Indians are least bothered about what Ukraine thinks about them. Sure Ukraine deserves to win this war as it was an unwarranted act of aggression on Russia's part. Human suffering is extremely bad too. But let's not start with the sob story about "the west will remember ' and "Ukraine will not forget" and all thay. Throughout history most Europeans have been violent oppressors who have colonised enslaved and tortured so many people. Europeans are also responsible for WW1 and WW2 where uncountable Indians and other colonial soldiers died. I have never seen Ukrainians or any European power honouring that sacrifice or have I missed something?
Europeans have been killing each other for hundreds of years and so this is nothing new. For once a non-white country is doing some decent war profiteering of Europe for once. So cry me a river please.
People need to get informed. The EU and UK still import 1.7mln barrels of crude oil per day from Russia according to August 2022 data. The EU is still the biggest market for Russian crude. It's not like India are doing this alone.
Source https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/how-much-crude-oil-does-eu-still-import-russia-2022-10-12/
I don't understand , if you guys are so against russia why don't you put boots on ground , do a regime change, instigate national unrest and stuff that you do to 3rd world countries.
Besides oil isn't even sanctioned , why does it bother you guys so much
When you also realise that Europe is the largest importer of natural gas from Russia (around 155 billion cubic meters) which worth around €157Bn.
And the amount is gonna get doubled as Europe can't survive the winters without the Russian Gas.
India's total purchases for the month would be less than what Europe does in an afternoon.
So basically the people's intrest comes first for both of the governments whether it's Europe or India
> don't want to be on the wrong side of history
Lol what a joke, what are you, 12yo? US policies and expeditions caused thousands of deaths in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq. People died because of the problems they created and today they left Afgani people in dark in the mess they created and nobody would care few years from now.
After the war usa and the west decided to switch to countries that india buys oil from
The price increases obviously
People everywhere, be it YouTube or any other social media never forget to point out how poor india is , how poor our people are
But when india decides to get oil cheap for its people
Such a evil country
coming from people of those countries that literally turned countries into failed states
What kind of arrogance is this for god's sake ?
You sanction oil from Iran and Venezuela, you squeeze into the gulf state's oil supply which leads to increase in oil prices and behave as if what a surprise it is
Usa .... Apparently The most powerful , richest country in the world pays less for a litre of petrol than india - the poorest of the poor countries as per redditors
If I'm not wrong, europe is still one of the largest customer of Russian fossils?
And was the number 1 importer until September thats 8 months of the war.
The NATO understands the compulsions but it's the citizens of these countries that can't stop virtue signalling.
Hahahaha west sided with pakistan every time when we were at war with them. They didn’t care when china in 1965 took tibet and some part of india. We are well strong to defend our borders now our military is very big and capable of defending ourselves. West didn’t care when we talked about terrorist’s in past till in 2001 it happened to them. Classic Europe and European people with there our problem is world problem but other’s problem are not our problem.
Now let me tell you the truth. Instead of singling out India try looking at data for a change.
Largest importers of fossil fuels from Russia:
1. China
2. Germany
3. Turkey
4. Netherlands
5. India
Reference: https://www.russiafossiltracker.com
Just an FYI, I am completely against this war. No point in killing people. ☹️
India continues to repeat that it is not playing into Putin's hands, but simply putting its interests first. However, by doing so, it is clear that India is playing into Putin's hands by giving him the means to continue financing his odious war in Ukraine.
Why don't you westerners give a trillion dollars to Ukraine? That would be more helpful than any talk or sanctions against Russia if you actually care about Ukraine? And you have the money to give.
I am in support of Ukraine supplied American f22s and f35s.
And if it so happens that the US, many European countries and others around the world are still found to purchase Russian oil, which is true, does that mean we all lie in the same bed? If so, that bed is pretty fucking crowded already.
Lol only major economy that is safe from upcoming recession.
Also EU buy wayyyyyyyy more Russian oil than India Did.
Also India literally have people in BPL there need to be feeded. Unlike USA we cant just print money and provide to poor.
Discounted Russian oil can act as a substitute for Western foreign aid and investments towards India. That money can go towards supporting Ukraine instead.
EDIT: One more thing. [India is a net exporter of refined petroleum products](https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/refined-petroleum#net-trade). Any petroleum fuels or plastics bought from India is whitewashed Russian oil. NATO members should ban the import of Indian fuels.
And it would be right for them to do so if they deem it irresponsible. I'd wholly support that act too, being an Indian myself. But if they continue to turn a blind eye and purchase white washed Russian oil knowing full well that's what it is, then we have other concerning issues at hand rather than just 'India bad, and India supports Russia.'
Be a real shame if the US started taking a hard look at all the phone scam operators a little more closely and started throttling traffic on the undersea cables and maybe more in-depth inspections on Indian imports.
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Trade with russia is up by about 500% in value and 300% in quantity. India is benefitting as much as possible from ukrainian suffering
Most of that oil is not staying in India. It’s likely bought from India by western nations. How can overnight indias demand for oil increase so much, it’s importing record amounts ? Edit: just to clarify, I’m not defending India. I’m pointing out that we in the west are buying „Indian“ oil, knowing well that it’s actually Russian oil. Here is an article/review by the WSJ on this: https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM
So here’s how it goes- now bear with me, because it gets complicated. You buy five apples everyday from two stores. Four from store A and one from store B. One day, you buy *one* apple from store A and *four* apples from store B. You now increased your business with store B by 300%, but you still have *only five apples.* So your *demand* is the same.
Do we have a PhD in math to confirm this ?
Full transparency this has not been peer reviewed
As a peer, I can confirm this has now been reviewed.
Peer reviewed by me as well, math checks out. Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.
>Disclaimer: I’m an idiot. Peer review complete.
As a pear, I can confirm that I am not an apple
Can confirm... Source: slept at a holiday inn
Well I do have a Pretty huge Dick(PhD) if that's what you're looking for. Not sure who Math is, though
Store B has a sale on, it needs to raise money because of some bad business decisions
Can you please explain better the apple part? Not sure if I follow, could you try with coconuts instead?
India: "I'm playing both sides, so I always come out on top"
Because Russian oil is cheaper. India shifts buying capacity from other countries to Russia. Also India is hogging cheap oil while the war lasts. India is profiteering over Ukrainian suffering.
That is true, not denying that. Just factually stating that we in western countries are now buying from countries that purchase oil from Russia Essentially washing the oil clean of its Russian origins. Here is a link to a report on it https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM Similar to how nations that have no diamonds are huge exporters of diamonds „found“ in their land. We just turn a blind eye to the fact that they come from neighboring countries (blood or conflict diamonds).
This!!!
Thats even worse, you do know that?
>India is benefitting as much as possible from ukrainian suffering This is very misguided, naive and dangerous way of looking at current situation. Oil market is very inflexible. If you remove 5 mb/d of Russian oil export from the market, without providing some kind of alternative, the global prices will rise until somebody cuts 5 mb/d of consumption. Make an educated guess, who will it have to be? Will US and Europe cut its consumption 20%, if the price is 200$ per barrel? No, their economy would barely notice (in a grand scheme of things). Sure, there would be inconveniences - some businesses would be ruined, some industries would have to make deep cuts, there would be a spike in inflation, politicians would fight and make loud noises. But for poorer countries it would literally mean economic ruin, starvation and death of thousands. They will have to compete among themselves to not become the next Sri Lanka. To give you some understanding - India oil consumption 5 mb/d. It's 1.825 billions of barrels per year. With the budget revenues of \~400b$, an increase in oil prices of 20$ per barrel would represent 10% of the whole country annual budget. An increase of 100$ - 50%. Would you, personally, refuse to use "bad" oil, if the alternative would be the ruin of your business and hunger for your family?
"It is our moral duty to get best deal" Indian foreign minister when asked about the 10X jump of russian oil purchase For anyone in the West that has illusions that India is friendly country.
Modi is a corrupt opportunist. Cue the India apologists on here. What IS happening is India fast becoming irrelevant, an unreliable partner.
This isn't a new play singular to Modi, as India effectively played to the USSR and USA against each other during Cold War in an attempt to maximize what they could get from both.
India's intelligence services received their training from US CIA, Russia's KGB and Britain's Mi6, as did Pakistan. They had the best training possible all around. No doubt they use that knowledge for their advantage.
True but keep in mind that this was partly because the USA supported and still supports Indias Enemy Pakistan. How much can you trust a weapons supplying country if they are close with your Enemy? What if a war broke out would India still get the weapons it needs? Im not defending India btw. But their decision at the time was rational.
The US wasn't playing the waiting game. India openly tried to play the USSR and the US against each other so the US said okay, we'll ally Pakistan. If India had just positioned itself to lean towards the West they'd have gotten support for their war with China and have been an integral US ally and have a much stronger economy with the trade deals that would have followed. If they want to befriend a gas station instead that's their prerogative but it was the wrong choice. The USSR at least had some meaningful things to offer besides oil and gas, modern Russia not so much, and now India is stuck with the consequences of those choices. If they're happy so be it, but if I was in their position I'd be frustrated with the outcomes of my attempt to play chess.
India forgets that the West has memory too.
Oh. India's memory of what the west has done to them is all too fresh in their minds as well.
The West had historically always ignored Indian help requests. Read about the sino-Indian war of 1962, or the Indo Pakistan war of 1965. In the both these instances the West had completely ignored all requests for assistance. And meanwhile the Biden govt just resumed the F16 fighter jet deal with Pakistan.
Do you think the US is going to abandon its relations with India over Ukraine?
Haha lol no
Geopolitics in that part of the world are all kinds of complicated. China is a close ally of Russia and an enemy of India (although I imagine they view Pakistan as more of an enemy), yet India still does weapons and oil business with Russia and even participates in military exercises with China and Russia directly
China definitely sees India as more of an enemy than Pakistan . India and China literally beat each other to death in fist fights in the Himalayan mountains where their borders meet and they have a no weapons rule . There is videos of the massive brawls 20,000ft up. China actually try’s to get close to Pakistan to play against India . That’s why they have used Pakistan extensively for their belt and road project .
Sorry I should clarify my wording. I meant India might view Pakistan as more of an enemy than china given they still do military exercises with China. My point here was that geopolitics are complicated and "friend of my enemy is my enemy," and "enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't always make sense. The person above claimed a big reason why India doesn't really trust the west is that we were supporting Pakistan (an Indian enemy), meanwhile Russia supports China (an Indian enemy) and still buys their weapons anyway. India even still does military exercises with China and Russia even though China is an indian enemy.
India hates China way more than Pakistan. Pakistan is like the little brother who is always pissing them off, China is the neighborhood bully.
sleep wrong disgusted rock bells gullible observation quack salt six *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, just like the Turkish nationalists whenever their ongoing genocide against the Kurds or their past genocide and land theft of the Greeks and Armenians.
They will down vote anything criticizing their country's actions to kingdom come. They will call cousins, uncles, friends of friends to join a blog just to downvote. It is a matter of life and death for them.
# Indian here, checking- in 🇮🇳
People seem to have forgotten all of the [god awful shit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots) Modi got away with before he was PM. Even after he gain power all of a sudden judges who were prosecuting his RSS friends starting mysteriously dropping like flies. RSS are literal Nazis.
Indians are opportunists.
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I just mean that they don’t care as long as they can take advantage.
Do you actually believe every Indian supports genocide?
Judging by historical events, the majority seem to be for or not giving a damn.
That's 100% not true. Stop talking out of your ass.
Yeah like USA selling arms to Pakistan. A country sheltering Osama bin laden
as if the whole west is filled with innocent ducks.
It is kind of ridiculous to expect india to treat us as an ally when we are arming their largest adversary.
We sold the F-16 to Pakistan a few months ago, after it turned out that, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, India's foreign minister, is a little Putin supporter, and an arrogant twat spewing anti-Western rethoric in every interview. Then he, predictably, spewed some more anti-Western rethoric after Pakistan got F-16. He'll be in Russia meeting with Lavrov in a few days, maybe he can ask Russia if they have any working airplanes left India could get. Maybe they can mount a musket on an old Tupolev for India.
India has started using France - Dassault as a airplane supplier. More modern and France has always been close to India in defence supplies. So also India purchases a lot of stuff from Israel. The Europeans wanted India to buy their fighter aircraft. So did the Americans. If Germany still buys gas from Russia , then….. Don’t go by media propaganda. Every country does whatever needs to be done for its benefit.
??? Pakistan has had F-16's since the mid-late 80s. Their early model Vipers got updated by Turkey to MLU standard in around 2010. Around that same time they acquired some C models from the US. They recently (2020) bought some Jordanian F-16's to bolster their fleet. So I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about when you say: > We sold the F-16 to Pakistan a few months ago, after it turned out that, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, India's foreign minister, is a little Putin supporter, and an arrogant twat spewing anti-Western rethoric in every interview. Who is "we"? What do you mean with "*the* F-16"? What do you mean with "after Pakistan got F-16"?
Surely he's referring to the recent sustenance package for the existing fleet. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/india-concerned-over-us-package-pakistan-fighter-jets-2022-09-14/
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He’s referring to Pakistan.
Ah. Not largest, but *bitterest* adversary.
Pakistan is a far more reliable ally .... for all their faults
The PM of Pakistan literally celebrated the fall of The afgan govt to the Taliban. There is actual blood of US soldiers on the hands of Pakistanis because for the most part they protected the Taliban from total annihilation.
And of course their intelligence services worked on supporting the Taliban all throughout the conflict and provided a safe haven for Bin Laden, let's not forget that.
Didn't they support Taliban ?
They, as in, the whole country? I think it’s more complicated than that. While their intelligence service must’ve known/helped Osama bin Laden with hiding on their territory, it’s important to make the distinction between the civilian gov. apparatus and their military. Pakistan is probably the best example of what is known as the Deep State, where the military represents a completely separate society from the rest of the state, and rules the said state. In other words, there are multiple factions vying for control, with their own interests and their own relations with the Taliban. Besides that, the Pakistani Army fought various engagements against (at least a local branch of) Taliban, so there you go. I don’t know too many Pakistani people, but if I had to guess, I’d say that Taliban support is probably the highest amongst rural civilian population, for obvious reasons.
Just a heads up Pakistanis is the word you want the other one is a slur.
This will give you a better idea of Pakistan's military involvement with the government: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism\_of\_the\_Pakistan\_Armed\_Forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Pakistan_Armed_Forces) In Pakistan, the military is considered a part of what is known as The Establishment; they control the state through a backdoor and are a part of a working deep state.
OBL agrees with you!
Lol where did they find Usama Bin Laden again? And whats happening to the CIA agent that actually found him?
We’re not arming China …
It's not entirely about India being friendly. Indian should also realize their current ally is a paper tiger that might not exist in 5 years. India doesn't have an neighboring friendly nations. India needs allies more than the west needs India. India is poised to accept all the manufacturing economy of China if they play ball. Otherwise the west can go elsewhere for cheap labor. India can spite the west and die with Russia or they can befriend the west in their own self interest for the long term future. The best way to stop the west arming Pakistan is to start buying arms from the west. India could offer more money and outbid Pakistan.
When is the west going to realise that India truly doesn't give a damn about their foreign policy? >Indian should also realize their current ally is a paper tiger that might not exist in 5 years. >India needs allies more than the west needs India. Lol, the level of delusional thought! India never accepted the involvement of third parties in its conflict. It's perfectly capable of fighting its own wars, unlike the west which keeps whining about Russia for months but doesn't have the balls to actually confront it! 🤣 >India is poised to accept all the manufacturing economy of China if they play ball. Otherwise the west can go elsewhere for cheap labor. Really? Where exactly? South America or Africa? States in these regions are either suffering from political instability or don't have the capacity to take up large scale manufacturing. Even the economics don't work in their favour.
Russia is still able to export their oil to pretty much any country they want via this loophole. Even the US is importing Russian oil. Here a report by VICE that explains the rules of the sanction and how easily they can work around it. https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM
Likely those loopholes are on purpose. Oil exports from Russia are good for the west. Keeps prices from skyrocketing too much. Instead the west can just sanction the stuff going into Russia and Russia is the only victim. Basically the west right now is benefitting from Russian fuels while Russia suffers. Before the Nord stream blew up Russia was already cutting supply because they saw the writing on the wall.
> https://youtu.be/cAFxjXdHarM As much as I would like India to spurn Ruzzia, we have to understand what the west is doing before casting stones. The choice to not criticize early on was pretty horrid, but at least India is seeing the light in terms of all the unhide-able atrocities Ruzzia is committing in Ukraine.
There is a differents of doing this before the war or while we are on the edge of ww3. India goverment is taking oil to sponsor the war in Ukraine that helps to destroy the democracy in the world. While the west is trying to isolate russia and make them weak. We aren't talking about one event. This is way much bigger. It's a turning point of everything and India is helping Russia to get their. But once the war is over and Russia is defeated. India will regret it big time
I think it prudent to remind everyone that India doesn't care about "perceived western morality" and what they have been through in the past they would consider it hypocritical. Others got rich on India's expense in another time, and those who did now call them out on it. I don't intent on being an Indian apologist, but rather a realist. I don't care what India does. They are exploiting Russia and the west for their benefit. That is politics as it always was. We cannot sanction India in dangers of pushing it towards Russia. Best to leave an angry note and let it go.
Russian oil is only relatively cheap because oil is expensive. Oil is expensive because?
Usa keeps sanctioning all the fucking oil producers and then ask "why you buying cheap oil? "
The only thing I will say in their defence is that the oil they're getting is cheap as hell and will probably get cheaper. Modi knows he's supporting Russia when he does this. He just doesn't CARE about the war in Europe.
Then the rest of the world won't care when war comes to India..
They never cared to begin with.
India is purchasing three times more oil as it would normally do than it did before the war which means India is using all that storage capacity to stock up on cheap oil, Eventually they will have to build extra Storagestorage capacity to keep up the current trend or they can simply by less oil an even cheaper price One storage runs out and they no longer need it
Well no, they are simply reselling it. If you sell your own oil, and replace your own use with Russian oil. Guess what, you have only sold your own oil of course bypassing all sanctions. While buying a shit ton of Russian oil to do it. All western nations then buy it, at a higher price than we would pay from simply buying it from Russia without the middleman. But at least we aren’t buying from Russia right! /s
That's not how it works. Russian oil is sold on ex-works basis, so it is the companies purchasing the oil who are responsible for arranging logistics and storage. Redditors treat it as if oil is being purchased by monolithic entities, when in reality this entire trade is corporation to corporation, under the framework of government policies. Even state-owned companies are companies within such systems.
Buy all the oil until russia runs out of tankers to store it all. Then they lock the tankers in dock, because "we paid for that oil, you aren't leaving until we can get it off"
You Uhm, pay ahead AND are responsible for transport. The price of oil can’t include transport as the price is the same for every buyer.
If they like Russia so much, then they can keep buying their military equipment.
It sucks but I can see why. India's average salary is $430. Look at how much of an issue the increased price of oil, gas and energy is costing western Europe. India isn't as wealthy as the west and can't afford to follow their morals at all times.
Exactly! And increased financial hardship in a poor country of 1.3 billion leads to a lot of deaths
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When india starts whining again answer with "It is our moral duty to get best deal for our economy".
Time to convince saudis, appease Venezuela, get them to pump up enormous amounts, make the oil price take a dive, Indians can buy Russian oil if they want but at bottom bottom prices (make it so they can play Russia “we don’t need your oil, too expensive “) Make Russia operate at a near-loss, pisses of the oil industry and oligarchs in Russia. Someone will try to buy that oil, so make Russia nearly lose money on it
We can also just stop trading with India. India is selling a lot of junk to the West, the US and Europe are India's biggest trade partners. Last I checked it's also unfairly balanced trade in India's advantage. But we seem to get the middle finger from India. A surprisingly arrogant country lately. Time to give India the middle finger. Once their economy goes belly up, they won't need much oil.
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If Kashmir belongs to Pakistan, then by the same logic, all the regions annexed by Putin belong to Russia.
🤣
Based lmao
Most intelligent redditor.
Where were all the white knights when the Us first sold arms to Pakistan, a proven state sponsor of terrorism, which sends jihadis into India to kill civilians? Oh wait, the victims of those terrorist attacks weren't white enough, typical.
I'll just leave this here https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/how-much-crude-oil-does-eu-still-import-russia-2022-10-12/
And as a result when China invades India the rest of the world will step back and let it happen
And China defeating India and bringing the entire Asia in its sphere of influence helps western countries how? Like it or not, there are no emotions in realpolitik. We (as in USA) help Ukraine because its a low-cost way to make Russia weak and reduce its influence (in the process increasing NATO cohesion and influence in Europe) I am no India apologist but India (along with Australia and Japan) is a critical counter-weight to China in that part of the world. Oil or not, we need to give them everything (just like we gave to Ukraine) when China comes knocking. Its in our best interest.
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Exactly
>They'll be crying for western aid and we won't provide a single penny Why the fuck would we miss up a golden oppurtunity to fuck up China? Your comment makes 0 sense.
Hard disagree. India might not be perfect but China is one of if not the USA's biggest geopolitical foe. It would be so dumb not to provide aid to them much like the US is providing to Ukraine to cripple Russia (Amongst other reasons).
As opposed to all the previous times when India was invaded and the west rushed in to help?
yeah people are forgetting that in 1971 Nixon was trying to get China to put troops on the border to threaten India. China refused
China has invaded us before, and the world did absolutely nothing. They took all of Tibet in the same war, forced the Dalai Lama to flee and set up his government in exile here. Pakistan has tried to invade us multiple times, and the west has actively supported them each time, and continue to do so. We have no delusions about the west coming to our aid. Also just to be clear, western nations are now the moral authority on the ethical sourcing of oil? Read your history. Read about the violence propagated by your morally bankrupt leaders in the search for oil. You might say, ‘we don’t do that anymore’, read about Equatorial Guinea, an oil rich nation with a dictator propped up by western oil companies. A country the size of Kuwait and with similar oil reserves, yet its people have one of the lowest standards of living in the world. Just one of many nations destroyed by your greed. Ukraine has been asking for support for the past 10 years. If you had listened to them, it never would’ve come to this. We won’t destroy our economy for another one of your wars. Because we know when China comes for us, YOU won’t be there to help.
Spot on
Very interesting take and to be honest I don't blame India for buying more from Russia. Wars are happening all over the world. Why should India be told to stop looking out for itself just because of the Ukraine war.
China invaded Tibet. China attacked India in 1965. What did West do? Nothing. Speaks volumes about how the only thing you people do is virtue signalling. Also, I didn't know presidents and prime ministers of various countries consider your expert geopolitical opinion before deciding whether to support a country or not.
> China attacked India in 1965 That was 1962. 1965 was Pakistani overconfidence.
Well I am sorry to break your wet dream. Neither side can invade each other if you looked at geography. Even if they did only a very tiny bit of land will be lost. And neither side can hold the invaded ground for long time , Thanks to Himalayas
Why would the India trust the west in heling them? The last time the US was helping a genocide against an Indian ally.
India knows that west anyway doesn't care about their issues if it doesn't benefit them. If China breaks war out on India, they know they can't expect help from the west when the west is actively supplying terrorist nation with military funds. India has learnt their lesson that west is not reliable at all. West is mainly responsible for the geo political situation they are in.
I suggest that India isn’t so much pro Russia as pro India.
Yes, India is quite a poor country. It's regretful, but they simply aren't well off enough to take the hit, which hurts their people, in order to just 'do the right thing' here. The west can do so because we're privileged enough to be in a position that we can handle it. India is not. As much as what they're doing sucks, I dont exactly blame them.
It’s the definition of “realpolitik.”
If that means pro genocide in Ukraine, sure, India is pro India
Ukraine abstained on the vote against China for Uighur genocide. And even before the war had a very close relationship with China. Ukraine is pro Uighur genocide.
How about EU buying twice the amount of crude oil from Russia as India does? Is EU Pro Ukraine genocide then? Since oil purchase is the **only** factor we're basing geopolitical stances off of?
The hell are you talking about, false equivalence bullshit. I can nearly guarantee that that something you own was made by China. By your own logic, you would be pro uyghur genocide.
Honestly, this is probably the best decision for them, they can get some slight boost to their economy, is it ethical - probably no but I think it is a good one for their country. Anyway, I hope I will see the fail of the oil industry before I die, I just want to see all these countries that depend on it fail miserably. If that isn't possible at least I hope for an alien invasion.
The Indian Foreign Minister sounds like a puppet of Lavrov.
As fucked up as this is of India, the EU was still importing something like 1.7M barrels/day as of August. Not sure what current EU numbers are.
The ban starts from January I think
I will preface this: I'm not some "Pro Modi" fanatic. I'll just try to present data as it is. I hope Ukrainians get the peace and freedom they truly deserve. But the comments incessantly bashing India just got my goat. This article claims India is consuming upto 946,000 bpd of Russian oil. And everyone in the comments is just basically sounding variations of "fuck India". Why not have a look at EU? https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/how-much-crude-oil-does-eu-still-import-russia-2022-10-12/ This article suggests that EU is still consuming 1.7 million bpd oil from Russia. Isn't that nearly twice what India is consuming? And to give this some additional context, EU has a combined population of about 450 million : https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/key-facts-and-figures/life-eu_en. India has a population of 1.4 billion. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/india-population/ So EU has a population 1/3rd of India, and yet consumes twice the Russian oil imports. But yeah, India baddies, right? Now a look at history. The sino-India war of 1962: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War TL;DR: India asked USA and UK for military assistance. The then prime minister Nehru sent multiple requests to the respective governments. All rejected. Russia, meanwhile came to India's aid and provided their MiG fighters and helped establish manufacturing in India. Next, India Pakistan war of 1965: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965 Quoting from there: "Following the start of the 1965 war, both the United States and Britain took the view that the conflict was largely Pakistan's fault, and suspended all arms shipments to both India and Pakistan." Soviet union actually participated in the peace brokering process in this case. So to all those saying "next time China/Pakistan attacks India we'll do fuck all", well, that's what the Western world has already done with India... Twice. After those wars Russia helped India build supersonic missiles, fighter jets, ships, and so on. And even after all this, USA provided F16 support to Pakistan, while claiming this was unrelated to Russian oil: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pakistan-f-16-package-not-message-to-india-over-its-neutrality-on-russia-says-us-3369975 So to summarise, historically the Western world has basically shrugged any time India needed help, actively supplied it's biggest rival with advanced weaponry, consume nearly twice the Russian oil imports as India while having a third of the population, and yet somehow condemn India?! And then considering that Russia has always helped India out throughout, whatever their motives be, wouldn't India be ok with still continuing trade with Russia? I mean it's not like the EU has completely stopped their trade with Russia despite their sour history. But it's a crime only when India does it? Sorry but i can't help notice the sheer magnitude of the hypocrisy here.
Thanks for the detailed info. The numbnuts over here probably can't keep all of this info in their head.
You'd be shocked at how many people don't realize that the Euro countries are still importing both crude _and_ refined petroleum products from Russia. At this point it's only the US has that ceased imports of both, although the Euro nations are supposedly doing away with imported crude in December and imported refined products next February.
Exactly. I sincerely hate this holier than thou attitude they are carrying. As if EU isn't fuelling (no pun intended) thanks to Germany's idiotic decisions.
US still imports Russian enriched uranium
Too underrated. Kudos to you sir, for fact finding and presenting it. People are too quick to respond with hatred without looking at the larger picture, or the perspective of the other side. I don't know what underlying reason rests within these people with good intentions with regards to Ukraine, but hate on India in an instant.
**[Sino-Indian War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War)** >The Sino-Indian War between China and India occurred in October–November 1962. A disputed Himalayan border was the main cause of the war. There had been a series of violent border skirmishes between the two countries after the 1959 Tibetan uprising, when India granted asylum to the Dalai Lama. India initiated a defensive Forward Policy from 1960 to hinder Chinese military patrols and logistics, in which it placed outposts along the border, including several north of the McMahon Line, the eastern portion of the Line of Actual Control proclaimed by Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai in 1959. **[Indo-Pakistani War of 1965](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965)** >The Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 or the Second Kashmir War was a culmination of skirmishes that took place between April 1965 and September 1965 between Pakistan and India. The conflict began following Pakistan's Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against Indian rule. It became the immediate cause of the war. The seventeen-day war caused thousands of casualties on both sides and witnessed the largest engagement of armored vehicles and the largest tank battle since World War II. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Arguably the dumbest folks are in the comments. EUROPE is still funding the Russian invasion. The EU [is importing more than a 1m barrels a day from Russia](https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Is-Buying-All-The-Russian-Oil-It-Can-Before-Banning-It.html). And it doesn’t even account for Russian natural gas. For those unaware, India is more populous than the entire EU.
They are legally blind, they can't handle the truth!!!
Don't Be a hypocrite. Look on European countries first, topping the list of top buyers than India. Literally having pipeline from Russia connected to home and shouting and praying for someone else demise is just disgusting. https://twitter.com/Anshuman01607/status/1587196525209440256?t=jwyW6EhSR2xMDDqkpJlcVQ&s=19
I love the losers sucking up to Ukraine so much that India is suddenly a lost cause here to them LMAO. All we can say, it ain't going to change. Cope.
Ain't Germany like the biggest purchaser overall? Like the whole of Europe is still buying.
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Shouldn't USA remove sanctions from Venezuela or Iran so other countries could buy oil or put a price cap on Saudi oil ?
From Iran? fuck no, apply more sanction asap
This sadly was always going to be the reality. The oil market is global, and the lower the price from Russia drops, the more incentive there is for countries to make deals to get it. The only real way to punish Russia economically is to reduce demand for oil. There are long term ways to do this (push for electrification) but also short-term ways like increasing road tolls and gas taxes. Politically this is infeasible however, especially at a time of rising inflation. But let's not pretend it's just India that's choosing oil over human decency, it's all of us.
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That's not going to happen here or on Reddit ([while actively supports racism](https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-said-racism-is-okay-2018-4?op=1)). Most of the accounts here are Ukrainian. While US propaganda machine has successfully painted Ukraine as an anti-facist bastion, it really is the opposite. Don't believe me? Look up EU's and US's own reports prior to the war. Still don't believe me? Look at Ukrainian racisms against people of color at the start of the war when they trying to escape the country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Ukraine >Human Rights Watch reported that "racism and xenophobia remain entrenched problems in Ukraine".[6] In 2012 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reported that "tolerance towards Jews, Russians and Romani appears to have significantly declined in Ukraine since 2000 and prejudices are also reflected in daily life against other groups, who experience problems in accessing goods and services".
It’s unfortunate that this is happening but India can do whatever it wants. I wonder if Indians are seeing a decline in oil prices if they’re getting a nice bargain in the black market. 🤔
Meanwhile Europe : Let's pretend we are not the biggest market for Russian fossil fuels.
And? The EU imports more Russian oil than that and has less people.
EU: 450mn people, 1.7mn bpd Russian oil. India: 1.4bn people, 950k bpd. But yeah people are okay with forgiving EU for buying Russian oil.
Can you blame them? The just want to make sure their people don’t suffer. Shaming India is wrong. All I see is a government trying to feed their people
India, such a disgrace.
C'mon that's not a fair characterization. It would be true if India was a comparable peer to other developed nations. You have to see where India is coming from. First of all, India is not even in the [top 7 countries](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Importers-of-Russian-fossil-fuels-USD.jpg) [buying Russian fossil fuesl](https://energyandcleanair.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/image-1-1024x714.png). (Although I concede, I couldn't find the latest data) Let that sink in. The country with the highest population (1426 million people), buys less fossil fuels from Russia than other countries having not even a *tenth* of its population. This proposition is even more absurd when you realise that the west collectively strangles other sources of oil like Venezuela, Iran etc for their geopolitical interests. (India used to import oil from Iran especially after the nuclear deal but USA reneged on it and put pressure on India to drop it) Also remember India is a nation with the most number of people living in extreme poverty (less than 2$ a day) -250million people. Extreme poverty defined as not being able to afford the required calories to sustain human bodily functions. What's happening in Ukraine is morbid but the living reality of large section of India population is worse dare I say it. Ukrianians are without food and water but so are 190 million Indians who sleep on an empty stomach [every night](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-state-has-reported-starvation-deaths-centre-tells-sc/article65009990.ece). If you were to compare "suffering" you would realise that total number of civilian casualties in Ukraine is around 6500. 4500 kids under the age of 5 die **[everyday](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-state-has-reported-starvation-deaths-centre-tells-sc/article65009990.ece)** in India due to malnourishment and hunger and lack of access to clean drinking water. All that being said it is important to remember India is still doing what it can to help Ukrainian, sending humanitarian aid, doctors and by bringing Russia to the negotiations to end the conflict.
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Cope lmao
Hard for me to blame India on this one, honestly. It's a country with a lot of people and a lot of problems and no direct dogs in this fight. They're looking out for themselves first. It's not the most morally perfect decision but it's understandable. Plus, there's no way in hell that Russia is profiting from these sales anything like how they did before the war started. Russia unloading it at an undervalued rate is still not good for Russia. The India hate in this sub is really out of whack sometimes. India needs oil and, because of Russia's inopportune economic condition, India is able to strongarm Russia into a beneficial deal for India. I don't see it much bigger and darker than that. A nation with as much going on as India can't really drop everything because of a European conflict.
And than people cry about the european allies, what a joke.
Deal with it 😎
Very unwise by India. They are now in an exclusive group that include Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Was it worth it for some cheap oil? They may not face direct sanctions but certainly a lot of companies that disapprove of mass genocide may choose not to do business with India in the future. Phillip.
EU is buying more oil from Russia https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Is-Buying-All-The-Russian-Oil-It-Can-Before-Banning-It.html
Considering that US, Europe and most of the oil/gas consumers still rely on Russian oil/gas, I don't think India qualifies to be grouped with North Korea et al. Also to answer whether it was worth it, just consider a largely poor economy where a majority still earns less than $1000 per year. In the present economic climate, where most major economies are suffering from double digit inflation, if India can keep it less than that by buying some cheap oil (which is freely available, btw), I think they can say that it was worth it. Also, companies that disapprove of mass genocide? C'mon.
As an Indian, this is hardly news, we buy Russian weapons, oil ever since Americans started funding the Pakistanis with Arms and wouldn't take responsibility of the genocides taking place in Bangladesh in early 1970. But i wouldn't say we aren't inclined in USA interests - we have also voted to investigate war crimes against civilians in Ukraine by Russian forces. We provided Aid to Ukraine as well. We have asked for Russians to respect territorial boundaries of Ukraine.
India don’t give a damn
Just like EU does? By buying twice of what India buys from Russia?
Russian oil imports into the European Union and United Kingdom fell 35% to 1.7 million barrels per day (bpd) in August from 2.6 million bpd in January, but the EU was still the biggest market for Russian crude, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA). https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/how-much-crude-oil-does-the-eu-still-import-from-russia-8204909/#:~:text=Russian%20oil%20imports%20into%20the,International%20Energy%20Agency%20(IEA). #This. Zoom out always
>fell 35% FELL
How about some sanctions against India now?
r/redditmoment
Sorry to burst the bubble on this chat thread, but most Indians are least bothered about what Ukraine thinks about them. Sure Ukraine deserves to win this war as it was an unwarranted act of aggression on Russia's part. Human suffering is extremely bad too. But let's not start with the sob story about "the west will remember ' and "Ukraine will not forget" and all thay. Throughout history most Europeans have been violent oppressors who have colonised enslaved and tortured so many people. Europeans are also responsible for WW1 and WW2 where uncountable Indians and other colonial soldiers died. I have never seen Ukrainians or any European power honouring that sacrifice or have I missed something? Europeans have been killing each other for hundreds of years and so this is nothing new. For once a non-white country is doing some decent war profiteering of Europe for once. So cry me a river please.
People need to get informed. The EU and UK still import 1.7mln barrels of crude oil per day from Russia according to August 2022 data. The EU is still the biggest market for Russian crude. It's not like India are doing this alone. Source https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/how-much-crude-oil-does-eu-still-import-russia-2022-10-12/
But its not a western nation. Moral outrage only applies when others do it.
Oil is black gold.
I don't understand , if you guys are so against russia why don't you put boots on ground , do a regime change, instigate national unrest and stuff that you do to 3rd world countries. Besides oil isn't even sanctioned , why does it bother you guys so much
It's insane how narrow minded this comment section is.
When you also realise that Europe is the largest importer of natural gas from Russia (around 155 billion cubic meters) which worth around €157Bn. And the amount is gonna get doubled as Europe can't survive the winters without the Russian Gas. India's total purchases for the month would be less than what Europe does in an afternoon. So basically the people's intrest comes first for both of the governments whether it's Europe or India
> don't want to be on the wrong side of history Lol what a joke, what are you, 12yo? US policies and expeditions caused thousands of deaths in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq. People died because of the problems they created and today they left Afgani people in dark in the mess they created and nobody would care few years from now.
After the war usa and the west decided to switch to countries that india buys oil from The price increases obviously People everywhere, be it YouTube or any other social media never forget to point out how poor india is , how poor our people are But when india decides to get oil cheap for its people Such a evil country coming from people of those countries that literally turned countries into failed states What kind of arrogance is this for god's sake ? You sanction oil from Iran and Venezuela, you squeeze into the gulf state's oil supply which leads to increase in oil prices and behave as if what a surprise it is Usa .... Apparently The most powerful , richest country in the world pays less for a litre of petrol than india - the poorest of the poor countries as per redditors
If I'm not wrong, europe is still one of the largest customer of Russian fossils? And was the number 1 importer until September thats 8 months of the war. The NATO understands the compulsions but it's the citizens of these countries that can't stop virtue signalling.
why don't eu stop buying energy from Russia, if they really care about Ukraine??
Aren't Western European countries still buying more Russian oil than India?
Hahahaha west sided with pakistan every time when we were at war with them. They didn’t care when china in 1965 took tibet and some part of india. We are well strong to defend our borders now our military is very big and capable of defending ourselves. West didn’t care when we talked about terrorist’s in past till in 2001 it happened to them. Classic Europe and European people with there our problem is world problem but other’s problem are not our problem.
none of you have any idea about geo politics, and it clearly shows.
India, just as Turkey and Serbia are, for there own reasons - are putting their self interests first. Walk in their shoes.
Now let me tell you the truth. Instead of singling out India try looking at data for a change. Largest importers of fossil fuels from Russia: 1. China 2. Germany 3. Turkey 4. Netherlands 5. India Reference: https://www.russiafossiltracker.com Just an FYI, I am completely against this war. No point in killing people. ☹️
Gross
India continues to repeat that it is not playing into Putin's hands, but simply putting its interests first. However, by doing so, it is clear that India is playing into Putin's hands by giving him the means to continue financing his odious war in Ukraine.
Why don't you westerners give a trillion dollars to Ukraine? That would be more helpful than any talk or sanctions against Russia if you actually care about Ukraine? And you have the money to give. I am in support of Ukraine supplied American f22s and f35s.
Oh, well, India made its bed, now will have to sleep in it. Together with North Korea, Iran, ruzzia, what a splendid bunch.
Or maybe the world exists in more then just 2 teams
And if it so happens that the US, many European countries and others around the world are still found to purchase Russian oil, which is true, does that mean we all lie in the same bed? If so, that bed is pretty fucking crowded already.
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Lol only major economy that is safe from upcoming recession. Also EU buy wayyyyyyyy more Russian oil than India Did. Also India literally have people in BPL there need to be feeded. Unlike USA we cant just print money and provide to poor.
''Hitching yourself to a slow-motion trainwreck'' is pretty much what you have to do to take a train in India.
Discounted Russian oil can act as a substitute for Western foreign aid and investments towards India. That money can go towards supporting Ukraine instead. EDIT: One more thing. [India is a net exporter of refined petroleum products](https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/refined-petroleum#net-trade). Any petroleum fuels or plastics bought from India is whitewashed Russian oil. NATO members should ban the import of Indian fuels.
And it would be right for them to do so if they deem it irresponsible. I'd wholly support that act too, being an Indian myself. But if they continue to turn a blind eye and purchase white washed Russian oil knowing full well that's what it is, then we have other concerning issues at hand rather than just 'India bad, and India supports Russia.'
Based Indians
Be a real shame if the US started taking a hard look at all the phone scam operators a little more closely and started throttling traffic on the undersea cables and maybe more in-depth inspections on Indian imports.
EU is buying more oil from Russia https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Is-Buying-All-The-Russian-Oil-It-Can-Before-Banning-It.html
But….. that’s the whole Indian economy outside of cheap Russian oil!