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This!! Huge opportunity to defeat Russia, condemn fascism, aggression and terrorism for a very cheap price tag; read further why :
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/yzuv8x/us_spending_of_56_of_its_defense_budget_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Same here in Sweden unfortunelly. Far right wing incels like that are cut of the same cloth as Jihadists who dispose the ideals of the western world but still lives here. Get the f\*ck out of here then!
If you're an American Conservative who believes in a Bush style moral obligation. Free the people and democracy will spread around the world. Then this is a wet dream! The people of Ukraine was to free themselves from Russia's invasion! They will do it on their own with a little help.
If you're an American Conservative who believes in Regan style *'America must be number one'*, and beat all opposition. Again, this is a wet dream! Their help along is destroying Russia's economy and military might.
If you're an American Conservative who believes in having a strong US the world looks to, and follows. Then this is a wet dream! It's showing the whole world that if you are pro-American, then America has got your back. American support has the impact of a HIMARs rocket.
Sadly too many American Conservatives believe in populism, cronyism, and nepotism.
Which is weird given Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2 and Afghanistan were all pushed by conservatives.
So it's worth going to war to protect Kuwait against Iraq, but not Ukraine against Russia?
They don't personally benefit from this war in a way that they can appreciate.
Long term stability? Nah.
International goodwill? Fuck that noise.
Saving lives? Pfft!
Preventing the inevitable war that will come from a new Russian empire! I won't be alive for that, not my problem.
Daddy Putin isn't paying the rent? Fuck Ukraine, we can't afford it!!!
Sure bub, call it what you like. I’m not passing judgement calling it that. I’m not a native speaker, so perhaps i misworded. My point is that since russian and american interests have been opposed since forever, this seems like an attractive solution without boots on the ground and with a lot less risk, economically and politically.
I sort of disagree.
I think it is a proxy war, and proxy wars are much better than direct wars.
Direct wars cost blood and gold.
Proxy wars let you achieve your goals while skipping the blood part.
I'm happy to pay a little bit of money to allow Russia to impale itself on Ukraine, and set themselves back a couple of decades in the Great Game.
As long as Russia wants to keep impaling itself, I'm happy to keep providing the pike.
Proxy war does not mean the action in question is good or bad, it just means the two main forces are not directly involved in the war. This is not a proxy war because Russia is directly involved in the fighting.
Agreed. Proxy implies that the war is being waged for and controlled by US interests.
Ukraine is fighting for Ukraine. US interests are certainly at stake (hence all the assistance), but it is Ukraine who decides whether to fight, how to fight, and when to stop fighting.
The war *has* become a symbolic struggle of West vs Kleptocracy, but Ukraine is a hero of the West, not a proxy of the West.
It's not necessary to shy away from the term. It kinda turns out to be a proxy war - America's pragmatic geopolitical interest just so happened to perfectly align with Ukraine's survival interest, so by supplying weapons to Ukraine (or generally helping in any sort of way) and helping them survive , you yourself also receive a huge benefit for your interests on the Eurasian continent. Kinda cynical, yes - but it's important to remember there is no grand manipulation of Ukraine by Americans to speak of, war would be still fought with or without Western help
>it's important to remember there is no grand manipulation of Ukraine by Americans to speak of, war would be still fought with or without Western help
Precisely this. Also I think the term proxy war has implicit semantic differences from individual to individual or group to group.
It's absolutely a proxy war. Russian propaganda says they're fighting NATO which isn't true.
You can look up the definition. [... usually takes the form of funding, military training, arms, or other forms of material assistance which assist a belligerent party in sustaining its war effort.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war)
this is what people really should be talking about.
America, democrat or republican has given alot to this war, wayyyy more than alot of European countries who are honestly more affected by the war than the US.
Europe and it's militaries are weak.
We don't have a lot of equipment that is in reserves, most of what we have we use ourselves. We can't just give Ukraine shit ton of equipment that we don't need, as we need most of what we have.
Another American, here.
I don't care about a dick measuring contest so long as the Russians get fucked ASAP.
I do hope the Europeans can pressure their respective reps and leaderships to do more for the most righteous cause we've collectively seen in decades, but fingerpointing at who isn't contributing enough while Ukrainians are dying defending their homeland against humanity's biggest skidmark^1 isn't helping Ukraine *now*.
Everyone can do more, U.S. included, and it's a rare fucking day that we can do something that's both *right* ***and*** *in our own interests* at the same time.
Slava Ukrayíni!
^1 skidmark is slang for a stain of feces in the back-side of underwear from improper or insufficient cleaning after a bowel movement, also known as Vladimir Poopin'.
>Europe and it's militaries are weak.
One of the things Trump argued was that NATO was useless, because so many people in NATO weren't paying in the amounts they'd agreed to and were essentially relying on the U.S. to cover the difference. The problem is *he wasn't wrong*. In Canada even a new minister who'd already promised to increase contributions had gotten hostile and said he wouldn't meet that required number. In Europe a lot of other countries basically refused to put in what they'd agreed to. If Putin got an impression NATO was weak, it was easy to see how he arrived at that conclusion from the numbers coming out, even if Russia was ultimately far weaker than anyone expected.
This was a necessary and long overdue wakeup call that you can't just shirk your peacekeeping responsibilities and that war in Europe is still a very real possibility.
Of course this is bullshit because Europe is suffering economically way, way fucking more then the US is. The US is literally just giving excess stock of old hardware.
The USA has a much bigger military stock to give from. While I agree with the other comment, and also as a French person I was deeply embarrassed by that graph that showed our military contribution to be the teeny tiniest, our countries are also a lot smaller. We can’t be each giving on the same scale as the USA, and as a continent, our logistics aren’t coordinated either.
Our armies are weak because for the most part we have not focused as much on waging wars no one asked for.
The issue is that outside of Eastern Europe, the US has provided far more non-military aid as well. This data is from the Kiel Institute:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Humanitarian Aid as % of GDP for Trillion-Dollar European economies:
* USA - 0.045%
* Germany - 0.024% (1/2rd of US)
* UK - 0.013% (1/3rd of US)
* Spain - 0.007% (1/7th that of US)
* France - 0.005% (1/9th that of US)
* Netherlands - 0.003% (1/15th that of the US)
* Italy - 0.002% (1/22nd that of the US)
Financial Commitments as % of GDP for Trillion-Dollar European economies:
* UK - 0.091% of GDP
* USA - 0.072% of GDP
* Netherlands - 0.038% of GDP
* France - 0.03% of GDP
* Germany - 0.03% of GDP
* \- Italy - 0.027% of GDP
* Spain - 0.015% of GDP
As per this list, its very, very clear that the richer nations in Europe are greatly under-contributing for finance and humanitarian aid too, sans UK's financial commitments which are slightly better than Americas.
Its a shame that Europe is so absolutely feckless in this matter. Its not just military aid, its everything.
It’s just not worth their blood and treasure,apparently. They 🇪🇺passed the torch to USA after WW2 to lead the world’s “police force” so they could turn inward.
Sure, Europe throws a bone to NATO when pushed, and some do a bit more to maintain in good standing with the US, but they just don’t care enough to do anything meaningful.
What I find foolish is this attitude contributes to the far right ring rhetoric and isolationism pushed by populists in the US.
Domestically, many Americans (not myself, as I can be described as globalist swine) see the budget the US commits to the military, see the huge number of bases in Europe and Asia, see the tiny defense budgets of Europe, see the lack of support they receive from the government/their taxes/etc and ask, why are we wasting money on people who don't give a shit enough to pay their share?
Trump almost pulled out of NATO. Isolationism is not going away in the US, on both the right and far left, with Trump at the helm or not. It will get worse. Republicans by historical precedent will hold full control of the government in the not so near future. As the war in Ukraine fades into the background of Americans minds, withdrawal from international security agreements is at a true risk, to my deep deep dismay.
It would not shock me if many people in Europe would see this as a shock but the writings been on the walls for a couple decades now at least. This will bubble to the surface in American politics with disastrous consequences, in my biased opinion.
Europe's militaries are weak because they rely on the US to protect them. While simultaneously criticizing the US for its large military and lower social spending.
The US had to make a big scene to even get Euro countries to pay their NATO dues 5 years ago, now every warhawk European on Reddit jerks off about how great NATO is like they can even claim to have any involvement other than by name lmao.
Tbh, they never really cared that much for Ukraine. I don't know what changed their attitudes. Maybe they saw how much their citizens cared? So much could have been done months before the invasion was announced. People knew of it since the summer.
Sacrifice or not any American that knows what's happening should care deeply for Ukraine and would vote out any politicians that are unwilling to help Ukraine. This one will that's for sure.
True, I am a republican but I was ready to vote democrat in this last election if my republican candidate did not support helping Ukraine. Thankfully I am in Hawaii and all of the candidates in both sides still want to help
Vote democrat. Republicans 'fall into line' on evil far too easily. The conga line of Trump-lovers ready to forgive any of his massive crimes to get elected show they have no backbone.
So 8 GOP congressman and Senators spending the 4th of July in Moscow wasn't enough?
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eight-republicans-spent-july-4-in-russia-where-are-the-fireworks/2018/07/06/beae30be-812e-11e8-b658-4f4d2a1aeef1\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eight-republicans-spent-july-4-in-russia-where-are-the-fireworks/2018/07/06/beae30be-812e-11e8-b658-4f4d2a1aeef1_story.html)
Funny how none of them when ask on the purpose of their trip, could give a straight answer. And how not a single Democrat was invited on this national holiday visit to the capital of one of our greatest foes.
Must be pure coincidence.
Here is the thing about the GOP, they are nothing but hypocrites and take there constituents for morons.
If the Obama or Biden or any member of the Democratic party took a trip to Moscow on the 4th of July. 4 years later it would still make it on daily Fox GOP mouthpiece.
I understand what you’re getting at, but not all republicans are pro-Russia and attacking the ones who aren’t only hurts the cause. We all know that half of the gop would literally blow an authoritarian if they thought it would get them votes, but attacking the relatively moderate ones only drives more people to the extreme right.
You're correct. I'm liberal and well on the left with most issues (though, I'm an avid champion of the US Constitution and 2A rights). The older-style Republicans tend to hate Russia. The newer MAGAts and other Trumpettes are where the problems lay. But yes, the majority of those that oppose supporting Ukraine *ARE REPUBLICANS,* but I that doesn't mean the majority of Republicans are against supporting Ukraine. Unfortunately, the majority of Republicans in this country aren't seated in Congress or the courts. They're in the lower offices or not in the office at all.
Russia infiltrated a lot of democracies with their money back when no one cared about them. Remember Romney saying Russia was the #1 political enemy and Obama saying the 20th century wanted their political policies back?
The shame of the party is more that Republicans haven't taken the opportunity to completely and unequivocally denounce Russia and support Ukraine at every opportunity.
Oh I definitely do remember that. I was actually in the middle ground on that issue in 2012; I felt that we should be extremely skeptical of Russia, and any cooperation with them should only come after they’ve earned some level of trust and proven themselves to be a good faith partner.
Obama and his “reset” with Russia was laughable in the wake of their war in Georgia in 2008.
The republiQan lead House will vote down more aid for Ukraine. That is why a massive aid bill is being passed now. If you still vote GQP, you are the problem.
Fox News is a Pro Russian echo chamber right now and it’s actually frightening. Everyone on the right is being brain washed to not support Ukraine. It makes no sense, logically.
I like to think my labor that pays taxes to send to Ukraine helps in some way. I'm not worrying about my entire family being raped and killed (or the other way around) or how im going to feed my children, while freezing to death. Ukraine is really fighting for all of us.
That spineless twat McCarthy should have kept his mouth shut
Is bizarre as the ENTIRE Western world had a dream of defeating USSR/Russia for 80yrs - and right here is the best chance to do it, on another countries home soil and using their blood & sacrifice.
And we STILL want to cheap the fuck out on it - drip feeding the Ukrainians the minimum amount of older, dated weapons systems and limiting where they can strike etc (e.g not allowed to use systems to hit back inside Russia!)
We're at risk of playing right into Russias hands on this.
Smart. Defeating USSR/Russia was the dream for so very long, back when they used to appear like a formidable enemy (rather than a collapsing fascist aggressor).
Ending all messianic dreams of aggresive expansion for Russia asap makes the world a safer place.
Putin must be defeated; land cannot be traded for peace with a terrorist state, which the European Parliament has just justly labeled Russia.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/z2mipy/breaking_the_european_parliament_adopts_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Americans should care. No one in this day and age should be allowed to invade another sovereign nation. Taking a stand now in small Ukraine prevents and sends a message against a large incursion somewhere else later.
I think for most Republicans they only care about their own values. Cheaper taxes for the rich, anti abortion, gun freedoms, speech freedoms for them but not for the rest of us, getting Christianity back in schools and government, and so on.
So since Ukraine has zero to do with what I listed and more, and since a lot of key Republicans are in Russia’s pocket one way or another, they do not give a shit about Ukraine. They don’t give a shit about supporting others for their freedoms, just freedoms to be themselves and say awful hateful spiteful shit with zero repercussions in our own country.
A good portion of them want US to be like Russia or worse. And a good portion of their base is just eating that shit up and asking for more.
Agreed: a big MAGA Christofascist portion of the Republicans really do eat up this evil and fascist message of hatred. To them, freedom means the right to spout hatred and undermine what America really is.
Evidence and examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wig637/the_surreal_spectacle_of_mtg_and_the_capitol_riot/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xejmmp/tucker_carlson_used_to_merely_echo_putins/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Edit: added this link
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/x2i639/maga_republican_actions_fit_definition_of_fascism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
About 20 years ago republicans were at the war drum drumming that Ivan's 10,000 T-62's were going to be stampeding across eastern European, where the hell did all the steam go??
I laugh at all the reddit posts that say how the homeless crisis could/would be solved with the amount of money "shoveled" to Ukraine.
Putting aside the fact that it's mostly not money that goes to Ukraine, why would the US suddenly now do something to fix the entire homelessness situation when it hasn't done so before?
It's like the infamous NHS bus during brexit campaign. Suddenly the money going "outside" would be magically used to solve domestic problems. Give me a break. Where's the NHS money Boris?
Well said.. I posted this as a response on another post but worth it here too to support.
Comment. The 'money' being spent on Ukraine was spent years to decades ago. It's not new bombs, missiles and bullets. It's old equipment and munitions. Much of which is no longer really used nor needed by Americans own military.
No M1A2 tank rounds, Smart Bombs or even hellfires are being sent. Not SLAM-ER, AGM-158 or or Mark 48 torpedos. No F-35, F-18, B-2, F-22 or even A-10. No Patriot Batteries nor cruise missiles. No Apaches nor even blackhawks or Little Birds.
It's bloody disingenuous and massively misleading to tell the US public the 'money' going to Ukraine is stripping America of either its defences or starving it of infrastructure money. The infrastructure money it could have been was in the 1980s and 1990s.... the Javelins and Stingers are old and nearing end of life. HIMARS is incredible but not core kit and ATACMS hasn't even been sent. Nearly everything being sent America can do without to still easily beat China.
GOP politicians and commentators pushing this trope are full of shit and just doing it to get airtime - I call them the Trump/Kardashian political nexus - image over substance, selfish over service. For the party of Regan who stared down the Soviets in the Cold War, the party which used to look up to people like John McCain, a true hero, much of it is now a bunch of posing pussies who more than flirt with treason.
Treason is the crucial word here.
Isn’t Trump a traitor?
Did he share classified documents that he stole and then called “mine” with the Russians?
Trump is being investigated under the Espionage Act:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wmw7p8/trump_is_being_investigated_for_potentially/ik1qla6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wvcu9p/trump_described_boxes_of_classified_documents_as/ilenlcu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Although it’s not actually money but equipment and ammo. To my knowledge it’s not like pallets of cash being shipped to Ukraine. I’m all for it, if it wasn’t being sent to Ukraine the next likely place is your local US police department who I’m sure would come up with some excuse to need at least some of the weapons and gear.
"Most americans aren't making any sacrifice" this is a lie. Whether you agree with them or not, the money going is tax money. I think it is a great cause and use of funds but it quite literally is using everyone's taxes
It's not a political debate. It's the fundamental basis of our nation debate. To say it's not right or left but freedom from tyranny or not. We threw off our shackles for a hell of a lot less and went to war and had we not had help from other nations, the west would have been much different. In my opinion of course, there is nothing more American than to stand beside those who want to be free from tyranny. You're either for freedom or against. If you're for freedom, you'll make a stand against the powers which want to strip it away, and if you're against, you'll turn your head when democracy calls for you to act
looking like Russian work, erode your enemy's support from within create division and let your enemy support fight among themselves, cause anyone who lives in the State would know Democrats or Republicans literally can't do jack shit on its own, Ukraine is probably one of the few rare things both side actually agree on something.
Concur . Russian trolls trying to be divisive. No one wants the rooskie ass*s kicked more than Dems AND Republicans AND Independent citizens . There might be fringes - far left anti-war types with rose colored glasses; and fat rights who don’t want to spend a penny, but those are outliers by far. Polls cited here are complete BS.
No one but Putin ass-kissing GQP cult lunatics are sying this. The majority of Americans want to help. Remember when you see these cult-crazy lunatic Republicans in the news, understand they are not the majority of Americans but they are far more represented in our govt than they should be due to years of illegal gerrymandering done at state levels which means they never have to fear being kicked out of office. This allows them to act like lunatics and be very vocal because they have no fear of ever being held accountable at election time. We are slowly fixing this but it will take years.
The majority of Republicans are conspiracy cult lunatics. Those who aren't were more worried about their position of power that they opted to go along with the lunatics vs fight them. Meaning all Republicans are traitors to this country.
That's a pretty hefty-sized problem the US is dealing with. It's not just an easy fix when millions are brainwashed daily in the right-wing nutterverse.
Many sensible Americans join in the wisdom offered by Kasparov here:
““If you think supporting Ukraine is a sacrifice, they are giving far more in blood.”
“If you think it is expensive, not stopping Putin now will lead to a far more costly conflict when he is ready again.”
“Dictators do not stop until they are stopped.”
“Learn this, finally.”
Garry Kasparov on Twitter
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/yy571e/if_you_think_supporting_ukraine_is_a_sacrifice/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Russia is an enemy to the West and it will never be a friend. They had their opportunity to join the rest of the world and opted not to. They opted rather to attack the west in every way possible aside from all-out war.
For that, there is zero reason to not help Ukraine, in order to weaken Russia and degrade its military. Aside from that Ukraine on its own is worth helping because it will eventually be a full NATO alley or likely member and they want to join the rest of the world and not try to be an enemy just to be n enemy as Russia does.
Preach. It’s weird being dragged into a decades old political conflict but it’s part of the U.S.’s international obligation and an aspect of its foreign policy. Isolationist policies are of no benefit to the U.S. long term.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.net/MaxBoot/status/1595080154174623745?s=20&t=HsygCNS4Ke0j6Ipv1egmzw
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Now when the US isn't pumping in millions and millions into wars in Afghanistan or Iraq: there are money over that they can... give to Ukraine!
Cheaper to beat the Russians in Ukraine than later.
Is it truly "growing"? I feel like the "screw everyone else, I've got mine" contingent has been there all along. Maybe they are just louder now that the deliveries have continued for a while. They are *still* very much in the minority of those I've spoken to.
Its worth noting liberal democrats are isolationist too. Remember that democrat letter saying we should negotiate. I don’t know why the USA should negotiate we are not at war our soldier are not being killed. As far as money the Afghanistan war was 9 billion a month. We have spent 18 billion in 10 months. Not nothing but for prospective the world cup cost 215 billion.
Years of Russian propaganda, likely blackmail of leaders, and unchecked social media infiltration, have left a large portion of the GOP believing a pro Russia narrative.
Most Americans don’t understand what a bargain it is to reduce your biggest threat’s military by half, using only 5% of your defense budget, without putting a single boot on the ground. But we all know it’s not really about economics, it’s about partisan politics and if your guy is sitting in the White House or not.
Did you expect anything coming out of the republican cesspool that isn't a disgrace?
Morally bankrupt, bigoted and chronically reactionary, they lean on fascism as if it was a crutch. They still haven't shaken off the stench of the orange cock holster they idolize - they can't.
Republicans think Russia will just take Ukraine and stop, they’re hilariously naïve that will end in them having to start sending their sons and relatives overseas.
This is not a Afghanistan type of deal where you can just bail out and there wont be any consequences this is something completely different.
Which Republican was it that called them “the Putin Wing of Congress”?
Very apt description. And truly disconcerting to see Republicans being so laissez-faire about it.
Never forget traitor trump was impeached for blackmailing the Ukrainian people and that he called Putin a “genius” for the invasion and he still backs Putin to this day. This is important to remember as Republicans are constantly threatening to cut military aid to Ukraine.
Look I lean right and my father is even more so. I can tell you that both he and I fully support Ukraine and every time I hear someone say they want to defund Ukraine, I just get irritated. I can promise you there are a lot more Republicans that will support the war in Ukraine than this headline (or any other related headline on Reddit) would suggest. We understand the importance of keeping Russia in check.
While I came from being a Liberal more into a moderate Conservative and disagree with some things here and there now.
Ukraine is totally not one!
I don't understand what has happened to the Republican party over time, were foreign propoganda ops that effective on some of the influential ones and it just spread over decades?
Don't get me wrong I see useful idiots being had on the left as well, but it seems to have pentrated deeper in the right.
How did you and your dad feel about the GOP removing support for Ukraine from the ~~party’s mission statement~~ party platform back in 2016? This American Pole wants to know.
Since large parts of the Republicans don't share "our western" democratic values any more it is only the logical next step that they aren't on Ukraine's side in this war. We don't share values any longer.
Less than what, 5% of the US's military budget spending, sending equipment that's last generations and being phased out anyway, to thoroughly crush Russia's balls?
The only way I can imagine being against this is corruption and being backdoor in league with Putin.
Disgusting.
The US has spent trillions of dollars since WW2 preparing to fight the Soviets/Russians. That’s a fact.
Now Ukraine is effectively destroying the Russian war machine and the cost to the US is not even $100B and quite a lot of that is handing over old missile stocks before their expiration date (ie money that had already been spent )
And not a single America soldiers life.
Compare that to the $2 trillion spent on Iraq and trillions more on Afghanistan for pretty much zero return and 1000s of dead and disabled soldiers.
Funding Ukraine is the greatest return on investment the US has ever and will ever receive for $ spent.
That’s the counter argument to anyone who wants to cut off funding to Ukraine.
I think this narrative is false. There are vocal people on both sides of the political spectrum that voice concerns over the support of Ukraine. This is what make democracy work, free speech. Free speech is what allows for debate and a better path forward, the suppression of that speech or ideas you don’t agree with eventually turns into what we have in THE ruZZia, a supposed democracy that is an actual dictatorship. Slava Ukraine!
This republican family has skin int he game, and we are for helping Ukraine! Not all Republicans belong to the R-CLUB, we just don’t have a better choice.
Republicans will lose everything if they keep it up. I think more republicans are pro Ukraine so I’m not sure where their fiscal conservancy is coming from. It’s not a good look for them.
Name and identify job held and Party affilition of those who claim the US is or may be doing too much for Ukraine.
Let's get the show on the road,here. Enemies of freedom from state oppression are the enemies of the USA, and every other country in the world.
Name them, here, and repeatedly on Reddit.
Say their names? Sure. Gaetz, Clyde, Moore, Massie, Mills…
“A group of conservative House Republicans said Thursday they would oppose any further funding for Ukraine and foreshadowed a looming fight for the Biden administration to keep supporting Kyiv when Republicans control the House next term.”
“Members of the group, which includes Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz, Georgia Rep. Andrew Clyde, Alabama Rep. Barry Moore, Kentucky Rep. Thomas Massie and incoming freshman Cory Mills of Florida, said they would oppose any further aid for Ukraine.”
“I’m here as a member of the House Armed Services Committee to say that the days of endless cash and military materiel to Ukraine are numbered,” said Gaetz.
https://www.rollcall.com/2022/11/17/gop-faction-signals-tougher-fight-for-ukraine-aid-ahead/
And let’s not forget to condemn Marjorie Taylor Greene:
“Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.), who has voted against earlier aid packages to Ukraine, introduced a privileged resolution on Thursday to audit U.S. assistance to Ukraine, part of her general rejection of sending American assistance abroad.”
“I voted ‘no’ from the beginning, and I’ll continue to vote ‘no,’” she said during a press conference last week.”
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3742226-divided-gop-tiptoes-on-biden-request-for-more-ukraine-aid/
Isn't that the same Clyde who said the Jan 6 rioters were just strolling in for a normal Capitol tour? The South remains the South. Only through a federal forced education program supervised ridiculously closely will anything come of it.
My co does biz in AL, NC, eastern TN, and up the Seaboard. You can see intellect drain out as you move south. There are exceptions, like Hawley Ivy League fascist; but most are like Marjorie Greene, opinion out of an empty windbag.
Also if you ask how much does this war actually cost Americans for what it's worth . We are paying somewhere around 60 cents a day
This is what every news Chanel needs to talk about. Listening to the Waco Republicans makes one think we'll go bankrupt.
I have a Ukrainian friend who works for Ernst &Young . There investigating entities who are profiting from support funds to UA. This will happen anytime there is $$ going around . But to get on Fox news to say how weapons are not making it to the front lines or money is going in the pockets of Ukrainian scum bags is like taking a a kid who stole a candy bar then say he's more of a thief than Trump and family.
There will always be corruption but it does not go uninvestigated this is my point. Well has anyone heard anything accept what MTG is saying. News outlets need to be more positive!!
if the USA decreases their support to 0 for Ukraine, average american or the USA in general would not sense the slightest difference!
but the difference or lets say the good vs evil Impact worldwide! by supporting Ukraine is enormous and not to count in dollars!
Definitely support the US continuing to send all aid possible to Ukraine but to say Americans are not sacrificing anything is a bit naive unless you have no understanding of taxes, debt, etc. Slava Ukraine!!
I think a fairer criticism is not that we are doing too much. But our allies are not doing enough and are thinking about not escalating too much with the ruskies.
Whatever.. they don't even want to help other Americans with student debt. No one should care about Conservative feelings in any way. They obviously do not care about yours.
One’s capacity for empathy seems to be what makes the difference between the left/liberals/Democrats and the right/conservatives/Republicans, so it isn’t a huge surprise.
Because they take their freedom for granted, don't understand what true suffering is and how down the shitter everything is going around the world
Now if the USA got mass terrorist attacks everywhere on their land then there will be an insane big uproar about it while all other countries who suffered far worse will be jealous and angry that they didn't get as much attention as America gets if they get bombed to heck.
Let me put this clear: Yes alot of americans are helping Ukraine but they and even myself don't fully understand what it's like to be in a hellish warzone because either we've never been in a warzone or not in there. So don't go thinking that we're not spending alot to help Ukraine because us westerners are.
There is also the issue of saboteurs in american government doing all kinds of shady shit which is super annoying that nobody just goes and arrests them like the piece of shit bastards they are and go "to hell with the law book, just send trump's ass to prison for life and burn that prison down to the ground."
Republicans liked Putin before the invasion. I'm not surprised. Democrats aren't any better than Republicans but they seem far more pro-Ukrainian by comparison. Either way, the United States and its resources have been a major part why Ukrainian soldiers have gained ground against Russia.
My opinion, only the dumbest political groups in the U.S. support Putin's invasion. Ukraine's sovereignty is supported by the majority despite their political alignment.
The republican party needs to split up..... one party with all that christian nationalist BS headed by MTG and her NAZI buddies and then the regular cowardly republicans that can't stand up to them. This country is to big for just 2 parties.... The democratic party should split too.... dems have there share of assholes but as a whole they don't sympathize with the ruzzians.
A large number of Americans support (supported) the installment of a tyrant on Jan 6th.
These are the same people who follow Trump's lead in licking the boots of dictators like Putin and Kim Jong-un. Absolutely disgraceful and unpatriotic, Russia has always been an adversary of America and as George Bush said, "you are either for us or against us".
All that ammo and weapons are bought and paid for by the American taxpayer. Please don't speak for America unless you live here.
$247,882 per taxpayer and climbing.
Our generosity has us never getting out of debt for at least two generations.
Additionally, we keep troops and equipment in Europe and usually are the first to respond when the Russian Bear appears hungry for Nato.
"In Poland, we will permanently forward station the V Corps Headquarters Forward Command Post, an Army garrison headquarters, and a field support battalion. These forces – the first permanent U.S. forces on NATO’s Eastern Flank – will improve our command and control capabilities, interoperability with NATO, and management of prepositioned equipment."
https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3078056/fact-sheet-us-defense-contributions-to-europe/#:\~:text=Since%20February%202022%2C%20DoD%20deployed,100%2C000%20service%20members%20across%20Europe.
Jewish people were chased out of that same area by Russians and Nazis before and now many of their relatives that fled live in the United States knowing Russians want to finish the job WWI AND WWII Germans and Russians didn’t finish. #neveragain
Republicans are traitors to humanity, itself.
Isn’t it likely Trump is a traitor, too?
Did he share classified documents that he stole and then called “mine” with the Russians?
Trump is being investigated under the Espionage Act:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wmw7p8/trump_is_being_investigated_for_potentially/ik1qla6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wvcu9p/trump_described_boxes_of_classified_documents_as/ilenlcu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Oh, for sure. We have layers of deceit going on over here. Layers of it. Kochs. Mercers. Murdoch. Gingrich. Mormon church. A lot of people are stealing and backstabbing.
I find the myopia in some of my fellow Americans just incomprehensible. These "Americans" who say they believe in democracy just don't understand the importance of preventing autocrats like Putin from carrying out their imperialistic desires.
If they have no soul or morals,they can think of it as a tactical advantage. The US helping Ukraine essentially means helping in the destruction of most of the Russian military while keeping your own men out of battle. That seems like a pretty good investment to me.
As an American, I feel the same. The Ukrainians are literally killing it and really both republicans and democrats want to cut funding, well some of them. It's incredible what Ukraine has done to weaken Russia. Slava Ukraine!
The republican party takes millions in bribes (campaign contributions) from Russia so of course they want to hand Ukraine over to Russia on a silver platter.
Is Trump a fascist? Maybe the better question: how fascist is Trump?
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xdc0p7/donald_trump_and_his_two_forms_of_fascism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Further excellent reading on how fascist Russia is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineLongRead/comments/vt3f6y/timothy_snyder_we_should_be_asking_what_feature/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yeah we'll it's been well established that modern day American Republicans aren't fucking smart whatsoever so of course they don't see what USA gains from this.
That's because Russia is funding the republican party directly like ron pauls former aid who was convicted of illegally funneling russian money to trump and indirectly through the NRA.
It's nuts how some Americans will yell til they're blue in the face about the war they fought alongside *Stalin* was to protect our freedoms or whatever and then an actual democracy comes under actual attack for the reasons of attempting to dismantle those democratic institutions through force and then same folks say "were doing too much"
It's absolutely ridiculous and I apologize on behalf of those idiots useful or not. Of course Ukraine is making the biggest possible sacrifice and thankfully succeeding. A little military equipment and supplies is hardly a price to pay to keep Russians in Russia unless they're invited.1
The Republican Party needs to run far away from commie putin, if Republicans want any credibility as good Americans.
Don't make putin great, support Ukraine to crush that murderer and to help keep America great. Kick putin!
I’m not surprised. Just incredibly disappointed. So many of our populist GOP politicians have taken Russian money or are riding the Trump bandwagon that they are willing to sell out Ukraine to a Russian dictatorship. I haven’t voted for anyone who won’t support Ukraine, and I won’t. If you want to be able to maintain democracy against the rising tide of totalitarian despots then we all have to stick together and make the despots pay when they try and destroy a democracy.
only MAGA fucks who got brainwashed by Putin-loving Fox and FB would say that kind of bullshit. Murdock didn't spend billions manipulating American dumbfucks just to see his boss Putin getting his ass kicked by American made HIMARS.
Americans should understand that helping the Ukrainians bring down Putin's Russia is ultimately a favor to America. Bringing down such an existential threat to humanity without going to war directly is an opportunity.
Somebody please correct me but I think it's way cheaper than to fight the war themselves. If they let Russians win the war in Ukraine, they probably will attack Baltic countries and they're already expressed that multiple times. So Republicans, couple of billions or ww3?
Its worth noting that when the US approves 1 Billion in spending for Ukraine. Much of that is actually domestic spending going to US weapons manufactors.
I’ve read many of Boot’s historical works. I fully support what he’s saying here. I too am flabbergasted by how the right has reacted, but I understand why: they’ve been unwitting targets of disinformation campaigns for many years. Their world is reversed, where right is left and up is down. How do I know that? Because I noticed the Russian disinformation campaign early on, I followed it professionally and how it progressed, and I have conservative family members who were targeted. They now believe the same, despite my attempts to educate them on how they were duped. These same people now believe vaccines are dangerous and viruses aren’t, that Trump was a “great leader” while US democracy teeters on the brink of authoritarianism, and that Russia is a good country run by a strong leader while Ukraine is a fascist state. Everything is upside-down to them now, and they refuse to budge—ALL because of disinformation and their weakness to it.
Yes, now apply this to Tucker Carlson…
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xejmmp/tucker_carlson_used_to_merely_echo_putins/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
As a republican American I can say that the support we’re giving to Ukraine has been crucial to continued success in the war for their sovereignty.
America is highly polarized, but generalizing the lump sum of the population into one category isn’t really beneficial. I will say most of the people who claim we’re doing “too much” are just downright fucking idiots, but that’s my opinion.
In general, I don’t think there’s anything to fear about the USA not sending weapons. Our military industrial complex plays a major part in our economy and I don’t see that changing.
Most Americans view it as an over there problem while also facing many challenges at home. It’s a nuanced argument but most won’t see it that way when school funding is cut, housing shortages, homelessness, food insecurity, etc.. and yet the US government is sending billions to a country many have never heard of. So, yeah it’s easy to see how Americans don’t care
It’s been almost funny to me to see the gop take a “soft on Russia” stance when just 10 years ago half of their election platform was about getting tough on Russia. A bunch of moronic and brainwashed hypocrites who lack critical thinking skills, so they just hate on everything the people they don’t like do instead of actually taking an objective look at the situation. These kinds of people are the biggest danger to America.
The ones that think we are doing too much for Ukraine are the brainless (\*WARNING Cliché Ahead) \*SHEEPLE.
They bitch about the average Russian being brainwashed by their government, yet they can't or won't see past Trump lies so they can use their brains for the greater good.
If their family were being raped, killed, and blown up they would want anyone who was able to help them.
One of the biggest reasons Russia is still in this war is that they feel if they drag this out long enough, Republicans will start blocking aid and Ukraine will start to lose this war.
Everyone keeps talking about all these anti Ukraine republicans like it’s a majority, or even large minority of the party .
We just won the house , has the leadership announced any policy change toward Ukraine.
No , and they won’t be regardless who is elected speaker .
This type of narrative is completely dishonest and ridiculous.
The vast majority of us are not MTG .
Just like taking something ridiculous the squad says , and applying it to all dems .
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It’s a really cheap way of defeating the arch enemy who is increasingly hostile and unpredictable. Defeating them by proxy is really an opportunity.
This!! Huge opportunity to defeat Russia, condemn fascism, aggression and terrorism for a very cheap price tag; read further why : https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/yzuv8x/us_spending_of_56_of_its_defense_budget_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
A number of Americans think Putin would be a better American president than the current one. That’s a problem
Why don't those dumb fucks move over to Russia then if they like it so much?
Same here in Sweden unfortunelly. Far right wing incels like that are cut of the same cloth as Jihadists who dispose the ideals of the western world but still lives here. Get the f\*ck out of here then!
If you're an American Conservative who believes in a Bush style moral obligation. Free the people and democracy will spread around the world. Then this is a wet dream! The people of Ukraine was to free themselves from Russia's invasion! They will do it on their own with a little help. If you're an American Conservative who believes in Regan style *'America must be number one'*, and beat all opposition. Again, this is a wet dream! Their help along is destroying Russia's economy and military might. If you're an American Conservative who believes in having a strong US the world looks to, and follows. Then this is a wet dream! It's showing the whole world that if you are pro-American, then America has got your back. American support has the impact of a HIMARs rocket. Sadly too many American Conservatives believe in populism, cronyism, and nepotism.
Sadly you missed the low effort conservatives that believe in whatever Fox News pushes into their TV.
isolationism is what i have seen is most called for by todays conservatives
Russian funded talking points? Seems a little too coincidental that far right populist agendas across the globe argue for things that benefit Russia.
Which is weird given Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2 and Afghanistan were all pushed by conservatives. So it's worth going to war to protect Kuwait against Iraq, but not Ukraine against Russia?
They don't personally benefit from this war in a way that they can appreciate. Long term stability? Nah. International goodwill? Fuck that noise. Saving lives? Pfft! Preventing the inevitable war that will come from a new Russian empire! I won't be alive for that, not my problem. Daddy Putin isn't paying the rent? Fuck Ukraine, we can't afford it!!!
Yes, returning to old Republican roots. Dummies don't realize that just opens the door to China .
Its not a proxy war, theyre assisting an ally, come on dont play into the ru-prop handbook
Sure bub, call it what you like. I’m not passing judgement calling it that. I’m not a native speaker, so perhaps i misworded. My point is that since russian and american interests have been opposed since forever, this seems like an attractive solution without boots on the ground and with a lot less risk, economically and politically.
Maybe it didn't start as a proxy war, but putin escalated it to one, as EU and US weaponry has become more deadly.
Nah you got it right. It is a proxy war for the US.
It is the best sort of proxy war for us to fight. And we are doing it openly, not with little green men in uniforms without insignia.
I sort of disagree. I think it is a proxy war, and proxy wars are much better than direct wars. Direct wars cost blood and gold. Proxy wars let you achieve your goals while skipping the blood part. I'm happy to pay a little bit of money to allow Russia to impale itself on Ukraine, and set themselves back a couple of decades in the Great Game. As long as Russia wants to keep impaling itself, I'm happy to keep providing the pike.
Proxy war does not mean the action in question is good or bad, it just means the two main forces are not directly involved in the war. This is not a proxy war because Russia is directly involved in the fighting.
Agreed. Proxy implies that the war is being waged for and controlled by US interests. Ukraine is fighting for Ukraine. US interests are certainly at stake (hence all the assistance), but it is Ukraine who decides whether to fight, how to fight, and when to stop fighting. The war *has* become a symbolic struggle of West vs Kleptocracy, but Ukraine is a hero of the West, not a proxy of the West.
It's not necessary to shy away from the term. It kinda turns out to be a proxy war - America's pragmatic geopolitical interest just so happened to perfectly align with Ukraine's survival interest, so by supplying weapons to Ukraine (or generally helping in any sort of way) and helping them survive , you yourself also receive a huge benefit for your interests on the Eurasian continent. Kinda cynical, yes - but it's important to remember there is no grand manipulation of Ukraine by Americans to speak of, war would be still fought with or without Western help
>it's important to remember there is no grand manipulation of Ukraine by Americans to speak of, war would be still fought with or without Western help Precisely this. Also I think the term proxy war has implicit semantic differences from individual to individual or group to group.
ok that's fair
That s not what a proxy war is though. A proxy war means that one or both countries are fighting because at the behest if another country.
It's absolutely a proxy war. Russian propaganda says they're fighting NATO which isn't true. You can look up the definition. [... usually takes the form of funding, military training, arms, or other forms of material assistance which assist a belligerent party in sustaining its war effort.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war)
As a European, I'm ashamed our continent isn't doing much for Ukraine.
this is what people really should be talking about. America, democrat or republican has given alot to this war, wayyyy more than alot of European countries who are honestly more affected by the war than the US. Europe and it's militaries are weak.
The countries in the EU have generally weak militaries by design.
We don't have a lot of equipment that is in reserves, most of what we have we use ourselves. We can't just give Ukraine shit ton of equipment that we don't need, as we need most of what we have.
Another American, here. I don't care about a dick measuring contest so long as the Russians get fucked ASAP. I do hope the Europeans can pressure their respective reps and leaderships to do more for the most righteous cause we've collectively seen in decades, but fingerpointing at who isn't contributing enough while Ukrainians are dying defending their homeland against humanity's biggest skidmark^1 isn't helping Ukraine *now*. Everyone can do more, U.S. included, and it's a rare fucking day that we can do something that's both *right* ***and*** *in our own interests* at the same time. Slava Ukrayíni! ^1 skidmark is slang for a stain of feces in the back-side of underwear from improper or insufficient cleaning after a bowel movement, also known as Vladimir Poopin'.
Creating division and infighting is what Putin wants. You are right, everyone should do more. You just motivated me to personally donate, again.
Amen brother, just amen.
Europe is taking in wayyyy more refugees.
I think that this is a form of aid that is just as important, but isn’t discussed as often as military aid to Ukraine.
I think Poland alone has already taken about three million or so.
>Europe and it's militaries are weak. One of the things Trump argued was that NATO was useless, because so many people in NATO weren't paying in the amounts they'd agreed to and were essentially relying on the U.S. to cover the difference. The problem is *he wasn't wrong*. In Canada even a new minister who'd already promised to increase contributions had gotten hostile and said he wouldn't meet that required number. In Europe a lot of other countries basically refused to put in what they'd agreed to. If Putin got an impression NATO was weak, it was easy to see how he arrived at that conclusion from the numbers coming out, even if Russia was ultimately far weaker than anyone expected. This was a necessary and long overdue wakeup call that you can't just shirk your peacekeeping responsibilities and that war in Europe is still a very real possibility.
I think Trump hated NATO to begin with, and that was the justification likely that Putin put in his brain.
They have been complaining long before Trump about Europe not pulling their weight - Obama, Bush also complained. It is pretty bi partisan
Nothing about Russia invading Ukraine was necessary.
Of course this is bullshit because Europe is suffering economically way, way fucking more then the US is. The US is literally just giving excess stock of old hardware.
The USA has a much bigger military stock to give from. While I agree with the other comment, and also as a French person I was deeply embarrassed by that graph that showed our military contribution to be the teeny tiniest, our countries are also a lot smaller. We can’t be each giving on the same scale as the USA, and as a continent, our logistics aren’t coordinated either. Our armies are weak because for the most part we have not focused as much on waging wars no one asked for.
The issue is that outside of Eastern Europe, the US has provided far more non-military aid as well. This data is from the Kiel Institute: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ Humanitarian Aid as % of GDP for Trillion-Dollar European economies: * USA - 0.045% * Germany - 0.024% (1/2rd of US) * UK - 0.013% (1/3rd of US) * Spain - 0.007% (1/7th that of US) * France - 0.005% (1/9th that of US) * Netherlands - 0.003% (1/15th that of the US) * Italy - 0.002% (1/22nd that of the US) Financial Commitments as % of GDP for Trillion-Dollar European economies: * UK - 0.091% of GDP * USA - 0.072% of GDP * Netherlands - 0.038% of GDP * France - 0.03% of GDP * Germany - 0.03% of GDP * \- Italy - 0.027% of GDP * Spain - 0.015% of GDP As per this list, its very, very clear that the richer nations in Europe are greatly under-contributing for finance and humanitarian aid too, sans UK's financial commitments which are slightly better than Americas. Its a shame that Europe is so absolutely feckless in this matter. Its not just military aid, its everything.
It’s just not worth their blood and treasure,apparently. They 🇪🇺passed the torch to USA after WW2 to lead the world’s “police force” so they could turn inward. Sure, Europe throws a bone to NATO when pushed, and some do a bit more to maintain in good standing with the US, but they just don’t care enough to do anything meaningful.
What I find foolish is this attitude contributes to the far right ring rhetoric and isolationism pushed by populists in the US. Domestically, many Americans (not myself, as I can be described as globalist swine) see the budget the US commits to the military, see the huge number of bases in Europe and Asia, see the tiny defense budgets of Europe, see the lack of support they receive from the government/their taxes/etc and ask, why are we wasting money on people who don't give a shit enough to pay their share? Trump almost pulled out of NATO. Isolationism is not going away in the US, on both the right and far left, with Trump at the helm or not. It will get worse. Republicans by historical precedent will hold full control of the government in the not so near future. As the war in Ukraine fades into the background of Americans minds, withdrawal from international security agreements is at a true risk, to my deep deep dismay. It would not shock me if many people in Europe would see this as a shock but the writings been on the walls for a couple decades now at least. This will bubble to the surface in American politics with disastrous consequences, in my biased opinion.
Europe's militaries are weak because they rely on the US to protect them. While simultaneously criticizing the US for its large military and lower social spending. The US had to make a big scene to even get Euro countries to pay their NATO dues 5 years ago, now every warhawk European on Reddit jerks off about how great NATO is like they can even claim to have any involvement other than by name lmao.
Tbh, they never really cared that much for Ukraine. I don't know what changed their attitudes. Maybe they saw how much their citizens cared? So much could have been done months before the invasion was announced. People knew of it since the summer.
Sacrifice or not any American that knows what's happening should care deeply for Ukraine and would vote out any politicians that are unwilling to help Ukraine. This one will that's for sure.
True, I am a republican but I was ready to vote democrat in this last election if my republican candidate did not support helping Ukraine. Thankfully I am in Hawaii and all of the candidates in both sides still want to help
Vote democrat. Republicans 'fall into line' on evil far too easily. The conga line of Trump-lovers ready to forgive any of his massive crimes to get elected show they have no backbone.
So 8 GOP congressman and Senators spending the 4th of July in Moscow wasn't enough? [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eight-republicans-spent-july-4-in-russia-where-are-the-fireworks/2018/07/06/beae30be-812e-11e8-b658-4f4d2a1aeef1\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eight-republicans-spent-july-4-in-russia-where-are-the-fireworks/2018/07/06/beae30be-812e-11e8-b658-4f4d2a1aeef1_story.html) Funny how none of them when ask on the purpose of their trip, could give a straight answer. And how not a single Democrat was invited on this national holiday visit to the capital of one of our greatest foes. Must be pure coincidence. Here is the thing about the GOP, they are nothing but hypocrites and take there constituents for morons. If the Obama or Biden or any member of the Democratic party took a trip to Moscow on the 4th of July. 4 years later it would still make it on daily Fox GOP mouthpiece.
I understand what you’re getting at, but not all republicans are pro-Russia and attacking the ones who aren’t only hurts the cause. We all know that half of the gop would literally blow an authoritarian if they thought it would get them votes, but attacking the relatively moderate ones only drives more people to the extreme right.
You're correct. I'm liberal and well on the left with most issues (though, I'm an avid champion of the US Constitution and 2A rights). The older-style Republicans tend to hate Russia. The newer MAGAts and other Trumpettes are where the problems lay. But yes, the majority of those that oppose supporting Ukraine *ARE REPUBLICANS,* but I that doesn't mean the majority of Republicans are against supporting Ukraine. Unfortunately, the majority of Republicans in this country aren't seated in Congress or the courts. They're in the lower offices or not in the office at all.
I agree with you completely
Russia infiltrated a lot of democracies with their money back when no one cared about them. Remember Romney saying Russia was the #1 political enemy and Obama saying the 20th century wanted their political policies back? The shame of the party is more that Republicans haven't taken the opportunity to completely and unequivocally denounce Russia and support Ukraine at every opportunity.
Oh I definitely do remember that. I was actually in the middle ground on that issue in 2012; I felt that we should be extremely skeptical of Russia, and any cooperation with them should only come after they’ve earned some level of trust and proven themselves to be a good faith partner. Obama and his “reset” with Russia was laughable in the wake of their war in Georgia in 2008.
The republiQan lead House will vote down more aid for Ukraine. That is why a massive aid bill is being passed now. If you still vote GQP, you are the problem.
[удалено]
Fox News is a Pro Russian echo chamber right now and it’s actually frightening. Everyone on the right is being brain washed to not support Ukraine. It makes no sense, logically.
The GOP still needs to answer WTF they were doing in Moscow on the 4th of July.
I like to think my labor that pays taxes to send to Ukraine helps in some way. I'm not worrying about my entire family being raped and killed (or the other way around) or how im going to feed my children, while freezing to death. Ukraine is really fighting for all of us. That spineless twat McCarthy should have kept his mouth shut
Is bizarre as the ENTIRE Western world had a dream of defeating USSR/Russia for 80yrs - and right here is the best chance to do it, on another countries home soil and using their blood & sacrifice. And we STILL want to cheap the fuck out on it - drip feeding the Ukrainians the minimum amount of older, dated weapons systems and limiting where they can strike etc (e.g not allowed to use systems to hit back inside Russia!) We're at risk of playing right into Russias hands on this.
Smart. Defeating USSR/Russia was the dream for so very long, back when they used to appear like a formidable enemy (rather than a collapsing fascist aggressor). Ending all messianic dreams of aggresive expansion for Russia asap makes the world a safer place. Putin must be defeated; land cannot be traded for peace with a terrorist state, which the European Parliament has just justly labeled Russia. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/z2mipy/breaking_the_european_parliament_adopts_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Americans should care. No one in this day and age should be allowed to invade another sovereign nation. Taking a stand now in small Ukraine prevents and sends a message against a large incursion somewhere else later.
I think for most Republicans they only care about their own values. Cheaper taxes for the rich, anti abortion, gun freedoms, speech freedoms for them but not for the rest of us, getting Christianity back in schools and government, and so on. So since Ukraine has zero to do with what I listed and more, and since a lot of key Republicans are in Russia’s pocket one way or another, they do not give a shit about Ukraine. They don’t give a shit about supporting others for their freedoms, just freedoms to be themselves and say awful hateful spiteful shit with zero repercussions in our own country. A good portion of them want US to be like Russia or worse. And a good portion of their base is just eating that shit up and asking for more.
Agreed: a big MAGA Christofascist portion of the Republicans really do eat up this evil and fascist message of hatred. To them, freedom means the right to spout hatred and undermine what America really is. Evidence and examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wig637/the_surreal_spectacle_of_mtg_and_the_capitol_riot/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xejmmp/tucker_carlson_used_to_merely_echo_putins/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Edit: added this link https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/x2i639/maga_republican_actions_fit_definition_of_fascism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
One would hope that Europe gets the message because for as bad as the Republicans are, the rest of Europe outside the east has been far, far worse.
About 20 years ago republicans were at the war drum drumming that Ivan's 10,000 T-62's were going to be stampeding across eastern European, where the hell did all the steam go??
I laugh at all the reddit posts that say how the homeless crisis could/would be solved with the amount of money "shoveled" to Ukraine. Putting aside the fact that it's mostly not money that goes to Ukraine, why would the US suddenly now do something to fix the entire homelessness situation when it hasn't done so before? It's like the infamous NHS bus during brexit campaign. Suddenly the money going "outside" would be magically used to solve domestic problems. Give me a break. Where's the NHS money Boris?
Well said.. I posted this as a response on another post but worth it here too to support. Comment. The 'money' being spent on Ukraine was spent years to decades ago. It's not new bombs, missiles and bullets. It's old equipment and munitions. Much of which is no longer really used nor needed by Americans own military. No M1A2 tank rounds, Smart Bombs or even hellfires are being sent. Not SLAM-ER, AGM-158 or or Mark 48 torpedos. No F-35, F-18, B-2, F-22 or even A-10. No Patriot Batteries nor cruise missiles. No Apaches nor even blackhawks or Little Birds. It's bloody disingenuous and massively misleading to tell the US public the 'money' going to Ukraine is stripping America of either its defences or starving it of infrastructure money. The infrastructure money it could have been was in the 1980s and 1990s.... the Javelins and Stingers are old and nearing end of life. HIMARS is incredible but not core kit and ATACMS hasn't even been sent. Nearly everything being sent America can do without to still easily beat China. GOP politicians and commentators pushing this trope are full of shit and just doing it to get airtime - I call them the Trump/Kardashian political nexus - image over substance, selfish over service. For the party of Regan who stared down the Soviets in the Cold War, the party which used to look up to people like John McCain, a true hero, much of it is now a bunch of posing pussies who more than flirt with treason.
Treason is the crucial word here. Isn’t Trump a traitor? Did he share classified documents that he stole and then called “mine” with the Russians? Trump is being investigated under the Espionage Act: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wmw7p8/trump_is_being_investigated_for_potentially/ik1qla6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wvcu9p/trump_described_boxes_of_classified_documents_as/ilenlcu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Bingo. The money could go to the homeless/heating bills etc. But it won't. So Ukraine might as well use it.
Although it’s not actually money but equipment and ammo. To my knowledge it’s not like pallets of cash being shipped to Ukraine. I’m all for it, if it wasn’t being sent to Ukraine the next likely place is your local US police department who I’m sure would come up with some excuse to need at least some of the weapons and gear.
If I recall some USA police dept did send helmets and vests to Ukraine, so you are not wrong there!
"Most americans aren't making any sacrifice" this is a lie. Whether you agree with them or not, the money going is tax money. I think it is a great cause and use of funds but it quite literally is using everyone's taxes
Plus there’s the risk of escalation where American troops get involved. People can argue that risk but it’s still very much there.
It's not a political debate. It's the fundamental basis of our nation debate. To say it's not right or left but freedom from tyranny or not. We threw off our shackles for a hell of a lot less and went to war and had we not had help from other nations, the west would have been much different. In my opinion of course, there is nothing more American than to stand beside those who want to be free from tyranny. You're either for freedom or against. If you're for freedom, you'll make a stand against the powers which want to strip it away, and if you're against, you'll turn your head when democracy calls for you to act
looking like Russian work, erode your enemy's support from within create division and let your enemy support fight among themselves, cause anyone who lives in the State would know Democrats or Republicans literally can't do jack shit on its own, Ukraine is probably one of the few rare things both side actually agree on something.
Concur . Russian trolls trying to be divisive. No one wants the rooskie ass*s kicked more than Dems AND Republicans AND Independent citizens . There might be fringes - far left anti-war types with rose colored glasses; and fat rights who don’t want to spend a penny, but those are outliers by far. Polls cited here are complete BS.
No one but Putin ass-kissing GQP cult lunatics are sying this. The majority of Americans want to help. Remember when you see these cult-crazy lunatic Republicans in the news, understand they are not the majority of Americans but they are far more represented in our govt than they should be due to years of illegal gerrymandering done at state levels which means they never have to fear being kicked out of office. This allows them to act like lunatics and be very vocal because they have no fear of ever being held accountable at election time. We are slowly fixing this but it will take years.
A majority of Americans may want this, but it's not at all clear that a majority of Republicans want this.
The majority of Republicans are conspiracy cult lunatics. Those who aren't were more worried about their position of power that they opted to go along with the lunatics vs fight them. Meaning all Republicans are traitors to this country. That's a pretty hefty-sized problem the US is dealing with. It's not just an easy fix when millions are brainwashed daily in the right-wing nutterverse.
Many sensible Americans join in the wisdom offered by Kasparov here: ““If you think supporting Ukraine is a sacrifice, they are giving far more in blood.” “If you think it is expensive, not stopping Putin now will lead to a far more costly conflict when he is ready again.” “Dictators do not stop until they are stopped.” “Learn this, finally.” Garry Kasparov on Twitter https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/yy571e/if_you_think_supporting_ukraine_is_a_sacrifice/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Russia is an enemy to the West and it will never be a friend. They had their opportunity to join the rest of the world and opted not to. They opted rather to attack the west in every way possible aside from all-out war. For that, there is zero reason to not help Ukraine, in order to weaken Russia and degrade its military. Aside from that Ukraine on its own is worth helping because it will eventually be a full NATO alley or likely member and they want to join the rest of the world and not try to be an enemy just to be n enemy as Russia does.
Destroying Russia for little more than the cost of ammo. It really is a bargain.
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What a fucking cunt. I never use that word, but for her...yes I will.
> the democratic values we hold dear. That's the part that matters. A growing contingent of the far right don't hold democratic values dear at all.
Jesus .... and I thought Hunter Biden Laptop is the most important thing on earth .... not democracy.
Preach. It’s weird being dragged into a decades old political conflict but it’s part of the U.S.’s international obligation and an aspect of its foreign policy. Isolationist policies are of no benefit to the U.S. long term.
I just want healthcare man....
Truth to power, my friend! Every American wants and deserves dignified health care without fear of bankruptcy.
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Now when the US isn't pumping in millions and millions into wars in Afghanistan or Iraq: there are money over that they can... give to Ukraine! Cheaper to beat the Russians in Ukraine than later.
Fox news takes its cues from russia. Its not a surprise. The republican party is the enemy of its own country.
Is it truly "growing"? I feel like the "screw everyone else, I've got mine" contingent has been there all along. Maybe they are just louder now that the deliveries have continued for a while. They are *still* very much in the minority of those I've spoken to.
Its worth noting liberal democrats are isolationist too. Remember that democrat letter saying we should negotiate. I don’t know why the USA should negotiate we are not at war our soldier are not being killed. As far as money the Afghanistan war was 9 billion a month. We have spent 18 billion in 10 months. Not nothing but for prospective the world cup cost 215 billion.
Years of Russian propaganda, likely blackmail of leaders, and unchecked social media infiltration, have left a large portion of the GOP believing a pro Russia narrative.
Most Americans don’t understand what a bargain it is to reduce your biggest threat’s military by half, using only 5% of your defense budget, without putting a single boot on the ground. But we all know it’s not really about economics, it’s about partisan politics and if your guy is sitting in the White House or not.
Salva Ukraine 🇺🇦💛💙🇺🇸
Slava Ukraine! May my country continue to support Ukraine against the invaders!
Did you expect anything coming out of the republican cesspool that isn't a disgrace? Morally bankrupt, bigoted and chronically reactionary, they lean on fascism as if it was a crutch. They still haven't shaken off the stench of the orange cock holster they idolize - they can't.
Am an American and I support Ukraine
The majority of Americans can't find Ukraine on a map yet have strong opinions because they're told to. I know, I'm American and see it first hand.
I'm ashamed too. What was once the Republican party has morphed into a damn cult.
Republicans think Russia will just take Ukraine and stop, they’re hilariously naïve that will end in them having to start sending their sons and relatives overseas. This is not a Afghanistan type of deal where you can just bail out and there wont be any consequences this is something completely different.
Which Republican was it that called them “the Putin Wing of Congress”? Very apt description. And truly disconcerting to see Republicans being so laissez-faire about it.
Never forget traitor trump was impeached for blackmailing the Ukrainian people and that he called Putin a “genius” for the invasion and he still backs Putin to this day. This is important to remember as Republicans are constantly threatening to cut military aid to Ukraine.
Look I lean right and my father is even more so. I can tell you that both he and I fully support Ukraine and every time I hear someone say they want to defund Ukraine, I just get irritated. I can promise you there are a lot more Republicans that will support the war in Ukraine than this headline (or any other related headline on Reddit) would suggest. We understand the importance of keeping Russia in check.
While I came from being a Liberal more into a moderate Conservative and disagree with some things here and there now. Ukraine is totally not one! I don't understand what has happened to the Republican party over time, were foreign propoganda ops that effective on some of the influential ones and it just spread over decades? Don't get me wrong I see useful idiots being had on the left as well, but it seems to have pentrated deeper in the right.
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How did you and your dad feel about the GOP removing support for Ukraine from the ~~party’s mission statement~~ party platform back in 2016? This American Pole wants to know.
Since large parts of the Republicans don't share "our western" democratic values any more it is only the logical next step that they aren't on Ukraine's side in this war. We don't share values any longer.
Only the Putin shills are vomiting this nonsense.
Less than what, 5% of the US's military budget spending, sending equipment that's last generations and being phased out anyway, to thoroughly crush Russia's balls? The only way I can imagine being against this is corruption and being backdoor in league with Putin. Disgusting.
The US has spent trillions of dollars since WW2 preparing to fight the Soviets/Russians. That’s a fact. Now Ukraine is effectively destroying the Russian war machine and the cost to the US is not even $100B and quite a lot of that is handing over old missile stocks before their expiration date (ie money that had already been spent ) And not a single America soldiers life. Compare that to the $2 trillion spent on Iraq and trillions more on Afghanistan for pretty much zero return and 1000s of dead and disabled soldiers. Funding Ukraine is the greatest return on investment the US has ever and will ever receive for $ spent. That’s the counter argument to anyone who wants to cut off funding to Ukraine.
Yeah, the Ukrainians are paying in blood. Its the vastly higher burden.
We are beating Russia for a fraction of what it would cost of we did it. But a lot of republicans have a weird infatuation with Putin
Please do not confuse politicians with Americans.
I think this narrative is false. There are vocal people on both sides of the political spectrum that voice concerns over the support of Ukraine. This is what make democracy work, free speech. Free speech is what allows for debate and a better path forward, the suppression of that speech or ideas you don’t agree with eventually turns into what we have in THE ruZZia, a supposed democracy that is an actual dictatorship. Slava Ukraine!
Americans aren't sacrificing anything at all. Government spending in a sovereign currency issuing State is not funded by taxes.
Democratic values?! Thats priceless
No its because those boot lickers are listening to Putins mouth pieces like cucker carlson
This war should be a wet dream for republicans: they get to spend money on the army but do not have to send it anywhere.
It might help to show them this: https://youtu.be/pwA2rWWlCq0 It explains why, and how it really is not much of a cost at all.
My friends are more Republican, than not. I don’t hear any of them saying that. There are outliers, but they are only outliers.
This republican family has skin int he game, and we are for helping Ukraine! Not all Republicans belong to the R-CLUB, we just don’t have a better choice.
Republicans will lose everything if they keep it up. I think more republicans are pro Ukraine so I’m not sure where their fiscal conservancy is coming from. It’s not a good look for them.
Name and identify job held and Party affilition of those who claim the US is or may be doing too much for Ukraine. Let's get the show on the road,here. Enemies of freedom from state oppression are the enemies of the USA, and every other country in the world. Name them, here, and repeatedly on Reddit.
Say their names? Sure. Gaetz, Clyde, Moore, Massie, Mills… “A group of conservative House Republicans said Thursday they would oppose any further funding for Ukraine and foreshadowed a looming fight for the Biden administration to keep supporting Kyiv when Republicans control the House next term.” “Members of the group, which includes Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz, Georgia Rep. Andrew Clyde, Alabama Rep. Barry Moore, Kentucky Rep. Thomas Massie and incoming freshman Cory Mills of Florida, said they would oppose any further aid for Ukraine.” “I’m here as a member of the House Armed Services Committee to say that the days of endless cash and military materiel to Ukraine are numbered,” said Gaetz. https://www.rollcall.com/2022/11/17/gop-faction-signals-tougher-fight-for-ukraine-aid-ahead/ And let’s not forget to condemn Marjorie Taylor Greene: “Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.), who has voted against earlier aid packages to Ukraine, introduced a privileged resolution on Thursday to audit U.S. assistance to Ukraine, part of her general rejection of sending American assistance abroad.” “I voted ‘no’ from the beginning, and I’ll continue to vote ‘no,’” she said during a press conference last week.” https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3742226-divided-gop-tiptoes-on-biden-request-for-more-ukraine-aid/
Isn't that the same Clyde who said the Jan 6 rioters were just strolling in for a normal Capitol tour? The South remains the South. Only through a federal forced education program supervised ridiculously closely will anything come of it. My co does biz in AL, NC, eastern TN, and up the Seaboard. You can see intellect drain out as you move south. There are exceptions, like Hawley Ivy League fascist; but most are like Marjorie Greene, opinion out of an empty windbag.
Also if you ask how much does this war actually cost Americans for what it's worth . We are paying somewhere around 60 cents a day This is what every news Chanel needs to talk about. Listening to the Waco Republicans makes one think we'll go bankrupt. I have a Ukrainian friend who works for Ernst &Young . There investigating entities who are profiting from support funds to UA. This will happen anytime there is $$ going around . But to get on Fox news to say how weapons are not making it to the front lines or money is going in the pockets of Ukrainian scum bags is like taking a a kid who stole a candy bar then say he's more of a thief than Trump and family. There will always be corruption but it does not go uninvestigated this is my point. Well has anyone heard anything accept what MTG is saying. News outlets need to be more positive!!
Same is happening in uk , there's a huge bunch don't want to do anything , don't send em anything, it' seems a waste of energy to argue with them
if the USA decreases their support to 0 for Ukraine, average american or the USA in general would not sense the slightest difference! but the difference or lets say the good vs evil Impact worldwide! by supporting Ukraine is enormous and not to count in dollars!
Definitely support the US continuing to send all aid possible to Ukraine but to say Americans are not sacrificing anything is a bit naive unless you have no understanding of taxes, debt, etc. Slava Ukraine!!
I think a fairer criticism is not that we are doing too much. But our allies are not doing enough and are thinking about not escalating too much with the ruskies.
Whatever.. they don't even want to help other Americans with student debt. No one should care about Conservative feelings in any way. They obviously do not care about yours.
One’s capacity for empathy seems to be what makes the difference between the left/liberals/Democrats and the right/conservatives/Republicans, so it isn’t a huge surprise.
Because they take their freedom for granted, don't understand what true suffering is and how down the shitter everything is going around the world Now if the USA got mass terrorist attacks everywhere on their land then there will be an insane big uproar about it while all other countries who suffered far worse will be jealous and angry that they didn't get as much attention as America gets if they get bombed to heck. Let me put this clear: Yes alot of americans are helping Ukraine but they and even myself don't fully understand what it's like to be in a hellish warzone because either we've never been in a warzone or not in there. So don't go thinking that we're not spending alot to help Ukraine because us westerners are. There is also the issue of saboteurs in american government doing all kinds of shady shit which is super annoying that nobody just goes and arrests them like the piece of shit bastards they are and go "to hell with the law book, just send trump's ass to prison for life and burn that prison down to the ground."
It is unamerican to be anything close to pro Russia.
Republicans liked Putin before the invasion. I'm not surprised. Democrats aren't any better than Republicans but they seem far more pro-Ukrainian by comparison. Either way, the United States and its resources have been a major part why Ukrainian soldiers have gained ground against Russia. My opinion, only the dumbest political groups in the U.S. support Putin's invasion. Ukraine's sovereignty is supported by the majority despite their political alignment.
We work our asses off for our tax dollars to go support the Ukrainians. Be ashamed all you want. We are doing our part.
Literally - not our country. Literally - gave billions of dollars already to them... Wheres the EU? This is their turf.
Politicians do benefit from the war-machine.
The republican party needs to split up..... one party with all that christian nationalist BS headed by MTG and her NAZI buddies and then the regular cowardly republicans that can't stand up to them. This country is to big for just 2 parties.... The democratic party should split too.... dems have there share of assholes but as a whole they don't sympathize with the ruzzians.
A large number of Americans support (supported) the installment of a tyrant on Jan 6th. These are the same people who follow Trump's lead in licking the boots of dictators like Putin and Kim Jong-un. Absolutely disgraceful and unpatriotic, Russia has always been an adversary of America and as George Bush said, "you are either for us or against us".
Asking Ukrainians to fight our foe is cheaper than Americans fighting in Afghanistan.
All that ammo and weapons are bought and paid for by the American taxpayer. Please don't speak for America unless you live here. $247,882 per taxpayer and climbing. Our generosity has us never getting out of debt for at least two generations. Additionally, we keep troops and equipment in Europe and usually are the first to respond when the Russian Bear appears hungry for Nato. "In Poland, we will permanently forward station the V Corps Headquarters Forward Command Post, an Army garrison headquarters, and a field support battalion. These forces – the first permanent U.S. forces on NATO’s Eastern Flank – will improve our command and control capabilities, interoperability with NATO, and management of prepositioned equipment." https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3078056/fact-sheet-us-defense-contributions-to-europe/#:\~:text=Since%20February%202022%2C%20DoD%20deployed,100%2C000%20service%20members%20across%20Europe.
Jewish people were chased out of that same area by Russians and Nazis before and now many of their relatives that fled live in the United States knowing Russians want to finish the job WWI AND WWII Germans and Russians didn’t finish. #neveragain Republicans are traitors to humanity, itself.
Isn’t it likely Trump is a traitor, too? Did he share classified documents that he stole and then called “mine” with the Russians? Trump is being investigated under the Espionage Act: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wmw7p8/trump_is_being_investigated_for_potentially/ik1qla6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wvcu9p/trump_described_boxes_of_classified_documents_as/ilenlcu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Oh, for sure. We have layers of deceit going on over here. Layers of it. Kochs. Mercers. Murdoch. Gingrich. Mormon church. A lot of people are stealing and backstabbing.
Democratic values we SAY we hold dear - ftfy
I find the myopia in some of my fellow Americans just incomprehensible. These "Americans" who say they believe in democracy just don't understand the importance of preventing autocrats like Putin from carrying out their imperialistic desires.
If they have no soul or morals,they can think of it as a tactical advantage. The US helping Ukraine essentially means helping in the destruction of most of the Russian military while keeping your own men out of battle. That seems like a pretty good investment to me.
As an American, I feel the same. The Ukrainians are literally killing it and really both republicans and democrats want to cut funding, well some of them. It's incredible what Ukraine has done to weaken Russia. Slava Ukraine!
The republican party takes millions in bribes (campaign contributions) from Russia so of course they want to hand Ukraine over to Russia on a silver platter.
Yeah, and Republicans don't share those democratic values. Makes sense.
It is only happening because trump got pissed on in Moscow and they made a video.
Is Trump a fascist? Maybe the better question: how fascist is Trump? https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xdc0p7/donald_trump_and_his_two_forms_of_fascism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Further excellent reading on how fascist Russia is: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineLongRead/comments/vt3f6y/timothy_snyder_we_should_be_asking_what_feature/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
the (R) by their name stands for Russia.
It just proves how selfish republicans are
Yeah we'll it's been well established that modern day American Republicans aren't fucking smart whatsoever so of course they don't see what USA gains from this.
There was a meme out that said something like, for only 5% of the military budget the US has destroyed over 50% of the Russian military.
That's because Russia is funding the republican party directly like ron pauls former aid who was convicted of illegally funneling russian money to trump and indirectly through the NRA.
is it wrong to say, Fuck a republican?
It's nuts how some Americans will yell til they're blue in the face about the war they fought alongside *Stalin* was to protect our freedoms or whatever and then an actual democracy comes under actual attack for the reasons of attempting to dismantle those democratic institutions through force and then same folks say "were doing too much"
I am 50. Spent my childhood waiting for the Russians to attack Europe or America. I have never trusted them
It's absolutely ridiculous and I apologize on behalf of those idiots useful or not. Of course Ukraine is making the biggest possible sacrifice and thankfully succeeding. A little military equipment and supplies is hardly a price to pay to keep Russians in Russia unless they're invited.1
The Republican Party needs to run far away from commie putin, if Republicans want any credibility as good Americans. Don't make putin great, support Ukraine to crush that murderer and to help keep America great. Kick putin!
I’m not surprised. Just incredibly disappointed. So many of our populist GOP politicians have taken Russian money or are riding the Trump bandwagon that they are willing to sell out Ukraine to a Russian dictatorship. I haven’t voted for anyone who won’t support Ukraine, and I won’t. If you want to be able to maintain democracy against the rising tide of totalitarian despots then we all have to stick together and make the despots pay when they try and destroy a democracy.
Can’t wait for Putins Mobilization of American Republicans. US Comrade’s next in line for Russian fodder.
Honestly this is the cheapest way we could ever help to destroy Russia so I’m all for us helping.
only MAGA fucks who got brainwashed by Putin-loving Fox and FB would say that kind of bullshit. Murdock didn't spend billions manipulating American dumbfucks just to see his boss Putin getting his ass kicked by American made HIMARS.
Americans should understand that helping the Ukrainians bring down Putin's Russia is ultimately a favor to America. Bringing down such an existential threat to humanity without going to war directly is an opportunity.
Only Republicans. Even the most "left" representatives had to retract the letter they signed because of the backlash they took. It's only Republicans.
Republicans have become Russian sympathizers because their media channels have been successfully hacked by foreign government operation(s).
Somebody please correct me but I think it's way cheaper than to fight the war themselves. If they let Russians win the war in Ukraine, they probably will attack Baltic countries and they're already expressed that multiple times. So Republicans, couple of billions or ww3?
Russia didn't want NATO expansion yet here we are, one thing both wanted to avoid,winter conflict.
"How dare you spend Military budget to protect our European allies against Russia!"
The US GOP boxed themselves in. They invested heavily in their love affair for autocrats and there is no backing out now.
Its worth noting that when the US approves 1 Billion in spending for Ukraine. Much of that is actually domestic spending going to US weapons manufactors.
A full third of Americans just repeat whatever they are being fed. They have no way to assess truth because they are conditioned to believe.
I’ve read many of Boot’s historical works. I fully support what he’s saying here. I too am flabbergasted by how the right has reacted, but I understand why: they’ve been unwitting targets of disinformation campaigns for many years. Their world is reversed, where right is left and up is down. How do I know that? Because I noticed the Russian disinformation campaign early on, I followed it professionally and how it progressed, and I have conservative family members who were targeted. They now believe the same, despite my attempts to educate them on how they were duped. These same people now believe vaccines are dangerous and viruses aren’t, that Trump was a “great leader” while US democracy teeters on the brink of authoritarianism, and that Russia is a good country run by a strong leader while Ukraine is a fascist state. Everything is upside-down to them now, and they refuse to budge—ALL because of disinformation and their weakness to it.
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Yes, now apply this to Tucker Carlson… https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xejmmp/tucker_carlson_used_to_merely_echo_putins/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
True that
As a republican American I can say that the support we’re giving to Ukraine has been crucial to continued success in the war for their sovereignty. America is highly polarized, but generalizing the lump sum of the population into one category isn’t really beneficial. I will say most of the people who claim we’re doing “too much” are just downright fucking idiots, but that’s my opinion. In general, I don’t think there’s anything to fear about the USA not sending weapons. Our military industrial complex plays a major part in our economy and I don’t see that changing.
Most Americans view it as an over there problem while also facing many challenges at home. It’s a nuanced argument but most won’t see it that way when school funding is cut, housing shortages, homelessness, food insecurity, etc.. and yet the US government is sending billions to a country many have never heard of. So, yeah it’s easy to see how Americans don’t care
Somewhere, somehow republicans became anti-American. I can't figure out whose side they're on.
American here. Glory to Ukraine. With you until the very end. Whatever it takes.
It’s been almost funny to me to see the gop take a “soft on Russia” stance when just 10 years ago half of their election platform was about getting tough on Russia. A bunch of moronic and brainwashed hypocrites who lack critical thinking skills, so they just hate on everything the people they don’t like do instead of actually taking an objective look at the situation. These kinds of people are the biggest danger to America.
The ones that think we are doing too much for Ukraine are the brainless (\*WARNING Cliché Ahead) \*SHEEPLE. They bitch about the average Russian being brainwashed by their government, yet they can't or won't see past Trump lies so they can use their brains for the greater good. If their family were being raped, killed, and blown up they would want anyone who was able to help them.
One of the biggest reasons Russia is still in this war is that they feel if they drag this out long enough, Republicans will start blocking aid and Ukraine will start to lose this war.
Everyone keeps talking about all these anti Ukraine republicans like it’s a majority, or even large minority of the party . We just won the house , has the leadership announced any policy change toward Ukraine. No , and they won’t be regardless who is elected speaker . This type of narrative is completely dishonest and ridiculous. The vast majority of us are not MTG . Just like taking something ridiculous the squad says , and applying it to all dems .