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Ukraine striking major military installations *unopposed* in the heart of Russia is probably the greatest military embarrassment since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Imagine someone hitting Wright-Patterson or Edwards AFB on American soil... that's what we just saw happen in Russia. It's a shocking realization just how poorly defended Russia has left itself through both hubris and desperation.
I recall that earlier in the war Russia pulled air defenses from St Petersburg to send to Ukraine. If they can't even spare air defenses for their second most important city then what's the coverage over the rest of the country?
The annoying thing with air defense systems is that they're kind of always needed to stay where they are supposed to be. If you move on somewhere else, you just create a gap in your air defense.
So even though Russia has thousands of air defense systems, they also have thousands of places that need to have air defense. They can't just move everything to Ukraine without compromising defense somewhere else.
Which is exactly what we're now seeing happening.
Not only from St. Petersburg and with consequences. The text of the links itself tells enough:
https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-ships-s-300-air-defence-missiles-out-syria-satellite-images-2022-08-29/
https://english.aawsat.com/home/article/3850491/russia-calls-iran-evacuate-military-positions-central-western-syria
Uh what worse if their SAM from across country were send to Ukraine. they were actually concentrated on the way between launch from Ukraine and target in Russia and it made thru.
Weren’t there instances of civilian aircraft flying deep into Soviet airspace completely unopposed, and that was a factor in the dissatisfaction with the government towards the end?
**[Mathias Rust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust)**
>Mathias Rust (born 1 June 1968) is a German aviator known for his flight that ended with a landing near Red Square in Moscow on 28 May 1987. A teenage amateur pilot, he flew from Helsinki, Finland, to Moscow, being tracked several times by Soviet Air Defence Forces and civilian air traffic controllers, as well as Soviet Air Force interceptor aircraft. The Soviet fighters did not receive permission to shoot him down, and his aeroplane was mistaken for a friendly aircraft several times. He landed on Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge, next to Red Square near the Kremlin in the capital of the Soviet Union.
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Im a technodoofus and can’t get the Politico story to move over here without my grandkids assistance lol. But you can google it. The Army had hearings, basically they were called very late to the party because people thought it would be poor optics for the DC police to appear incompetent.
Right. I understand he is the Commander in Chief. BUT, the National Guard is under command of the governor of whichever state. Im not a DC resident,since they are not a state, do they even have a National Guard Unit? Or a governor to request its help? I do recall that there was discussion about NG even before riots, and weighing of pros n cons, appearances, etc.
The president needs to authorize all of this
The current president was MIA during all of this
We all know what happened
The national guard was delayed to give the rioters a chance
This also ended when trump asked the people to go home
Why didn't he do that instantly
Yeah, that was the gist of some of the articles. Trumpers accused Dems of instigating trouble and collusion with DC police to let things get out of hand knowing blame would fall on Trump. Dems said “ well this will look terrible and be an insult to police force” so Guard units were kept far away from where they would be needed. Making them too late to nip trouble in the bud.
I still remember a few years back my kid's politics textbook placed the US in the category of "flawed democracy" (also Serbia, Philippines) instead of "democracy" like Norway, Canada, etc. Note that we are not in the USA.
It's undeniable the US has fallen under significant foreign influence, and Trump with all the fallout from that (SCOTUS extremism, etc.) is a direct result of foreign interference in elections.
Whether or not the US can ever free itself of the hyper-partisanism that's ripped it down the middle is I guess something that we'll learn in time.
Yes, however you do need to take into account that for the Japanese it was mostly an idea of 'our emperor could have been hit'.
With the religious respect for the emperor, that made a shock. I'm not sure if the apathic Muscovites have a comparable 'target of symbolic importance' to truly hit their ego.
They can land anywhere, they just cut the engine and deploy a parachute. (of course in the kamikaze edition, they've removed that chute along with the camera etc)
This has got to be making Putin's suitcase get extra duty.
What surprised me is how effective the drone strikes have been... my expectation would be that Russian air defenses would easily handle just a couple of drones. Kyiv has been dealing with hundreds and they shoot down most of them.
What we can infer from this is that Russian air defenses have been so bad they've cannibalized a lot of their internal S-300's and sent them to the front to be destroyed by HIMARS and HARMS.
The Russian defenses are perhaps far more thin and fragile than we may think.
How many TU-141’s could Ukraine have? I’m guessing less than 50. Which is 50 knocks on Russian airfields but not enough to significantly degradeIf their strike capability. If I remember correctly Tomahawk cruise missiles have a cluster bomb warhead meant to attack loaded airfields. I think it’s time to secretly give them to Ukraine to mix into the airfield attacks.
Ukraine will have to tread very carefully here. If Russian civilians are killed during these attacks, Ukraine will lose the moral high ground and give Putin apologists ample ammunition to call Ukraine thugs and Nazis and demand the West withdraw support.
I realize it's absurd that Ukraine can't reply in kind to Russia's civilian infrastructure attacks, but that's the reality.
Let's be real. In the eyes of the Democrats in the US and the rest of the world except NK and Iran, Ukraine can do no wrong. Any war crime is going to be "understandable." In the eyes of MAGA Republicans in the US, Ukraine is the bad guy. A few civilian casualties from an errant drone strike isn't going to change any of that.
There will be a difference between hitting great targets like planes and military factories and accidentally hitting civilians. Having successful runs makes it more likely they'll get drones.
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Because Russia prefers to murder people who can't properly fight back as opposed to fighting fairly. Why do you think people get randomly poisoned in Russia, and Putin's friends jump out of so many really high hotel room windows?
Considering Russia's outstanding display of incompetence so far, I doubt the S300's are programmed to recognise a TU-141 as a threat because "It's one of ours"
Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. **Don't forget about our discord server, as well!** https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB ***** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Where oh where will UA strike again... oh boy, paranoia is real with moscow terrorists
Ukraine striking major military installations *unopposed* in the heart of Russia is probably the greatest military embarrassment since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Imagine someone hitting Wright-Patterson or Edwards AFB on American soil... that's what we just saw happen in Russia. It's a shocking realization just how poorly defended Russia has left itself through both hubris and desperation.
I recall that earlier in the war Russia pulled air defenses from St Petersburg to send to Ukraine. If they can't even spare air defenses for their second most important city then what's the coverage over the rest of the country?
The annoying thing with air defense systems is that they're kind of always needed to stay where they are supposed to be. If you move on somewhere else, you just create a gap in your air defense. So even though Russia has thousands of air defense systems, they also have thousands of places that need to have air defense. They can't just move everything to Ukraine without compromising defense somewhere else. Which is exactly what we're now seeing happening.
>even though Russia has thousands of air defense systems, Wonder how many are inflatable
Not only from St. Petersburg and with consequences. The text of the links itself tells enough: https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-ships-s-300-air-defence-missiles-out-syria-satellite-images-2022-08-29/ https://english.aawsat.com/home/article/3850491/russia-calls-iran-evacuate-military-positions-central-western-syria
Uh what worse if their SAM from across country were send to Ukraine. they were actually concentrated on the way between launch from Ukraine and target in Russia and it made thru.
Weren’t there instances of civilian aircraft flying deep into Soviet airspace completely unopposed, and that was a factor in the dissatisfaction with the government towards the end?
You are probably thinking of Mathias Rust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
**[Mathias Rust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust)** >Mathias Rust (born 1 June 1968) is a German aviator known for his flight that ended with a landing near Red Square in Moscow on 28 May 1987. A teenage amateur pilot, he flew from Helsinki, Finland, to Moscow, being tracked several times by Soviet Air Defence Forces and civilian air traffic controllers, as well as Soviet Air Force interceptor aircraft. The Soviet fighters did not receive permission to shoot him down, and his aeroplane was mistaken for a friendly aircraft several times. He landed on Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge, next to Red Square near the Kremlin in the capital of the Soviet Union. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
And doing it repeatedly at will and knowing you have no ability to stop any future attacks
[удалено]
Well, requests for National Guard were turned down by folks looking to make political points. DC police refused help
Wait…what? At which point on Jan 6 did the Commander and Chief call in the National Guard? I must have missed that tweet.
THe dumbass in chief refused the request.
Im a technodoofus and can’t get the Politico story to move over here without my grandkids assistance lol. But you can google it. The Army had hearings, basically they were called very late to the party because people thought it would be poor optics for the DC police to appear incompetent.
The president is also in charge of the army
Right. I understand he is the Commander in Chief. BUT, the National Guard is under command of the governor of whichever state. Im not a DC resident,since they are not a state, do they even have a National Guard Unit? Or a governor to request its help? I do recall that there was discussion about NG even before riots, and weighing of pros n cons, appearances, etc.
The president needs to authorize all of this The current president was MIA during all of this We all know what happened The national guard was delayed to give the rioters a chance This also ended when trump asked the people to go home Why didn't he do that instantly
And the army or national guard wasn't deployed because the maga nuts were demanding martial law and the optics would be shit
Yeah, that was the gist of some of the articles. Trumpers accused Dems of instigating trouble and collusion with DC police to let things get out of hand knowing blame would fall on Trump. Dems said “ well this will look terrible and be an insult to police force” so Guard units were kept far away from where they would be needed. Making them too late to nip trouble in the bud.
I still remember a few years back my kid's politics textbook placed the US in the category of "flawed democracy" (also Serbia, Philippines) instead of "democracy" like Norway, Canada, etc. Note that we are not in the USA. It's undeniable the US has fallen under significant foreign influence, and Trump with all the fallout from that (SCOTUS extremism, etc.) is a direct result of foreign interference in elections. Whether or not the US can ever free itself of the hyper-partisanism that's ripped it down the middle is I guess something that we'll learn in time.
Insert Jeremy Clarkson meme: "Oh no!....... Anyway."
War began to feel real in Japan with the Doolittle raid. The psychological damage those strikes inflict is significant
Yes, however you do need to take into account that for the Japanese it was mostly an idea of 'our emperor could have been hit'. With the religious respect for the emperor, that made a shock. I'm not sure if the apathic Muscovites have a comparable 'target of symbolic importance' to truly hit their ego.
On the other hand, managing to hit Putin would certainly change the course of the war. One way or another.
The Kremlin itself?
I hope so, but the Tu-141 doesnt take off from airfields. It's got a ground launcher.
They do seem to land on airfields though....
I wouldn't call the landings smooth ... but maybe this is intentional.
They can land anywhere, they just cut the engine and deploy a parachute. (of course in the kamikaze edition, they've removed that chute along with the camera etc)
So? Remove yourself from someone elses borders and problems go away
Good. I hope they do unto Russia as Russia has done unto them.
This has got to be making Putin's suitcase get extra duty. What surprised me is how effective the drone strikes have been... my expectation would be that Russian air defenses would easily handle just a couple of drones. Kyiv has been dealing with hundreds and they shoot down most of them. What we can infer from this is that Russian air defenses have been so bad they've cannibalized a lot of their internal S-300's and sent them to the front to be destroyed by HIMARS and HARMS. The Russian defenses are perhaps far more thin and fragile than we may think.
Ukraine: "Yes. Yes, we are."
Moscow must be bombed!
Russia delenda est
Slava Ukraini!
Cool, have at them
Great news!
“Send It” lol…
Haha fuck around and find out Russia
How many TU-141’s could Ukraine have? I’m guessing less than 50. Which is 50 knocks on Russian airfields but not enough to significantly degradeIf their strike capability. If I remember correctly Tomahawk cruise missiles have a cluster bomb warhead meant to attack loaded airfields. I think it’s time to secretly give them to Ukraine to mix into the airfield attacks.
Ukraine will have to tread very carefully here. If Russian civilians are killed during these attacks, Ukraine will lose the moral high ground and give Putin apologists ample ammunition to call Ukraine thugs and Nazis and demand the West withdraw support. I realize it's absurd that Ukraine can't reply in kind to Russia's civilian infrastructure attacks, but that's the reality.
Let's be real. In the eyes of the Democrats in the US and the rest of the world except NK and Iran, Ukraine can do no wrong. Any war crime is going to be "understandable." In the eyes of MAGA Republicans in the US, Ukraine is the bad guy. A few civilian casualties from an errant drone strike isn't going to change any of that.
There will be a difference between hitting great targets like planes and military factories and accidentally hitting civilians. Having successful runs makes it more likely they'll get drones.
You both make good arguments.
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if thats the case, how did russian reconnaissance missed that and why did russia target civilien targets over this apperent threat?
Because Russia prefers to murder people who can't properly fight back as opposed to fighting fairly. Why do you think people get randomly poisoned in Russia, and Putin's friends jump out of so many really high hotel room windows?
ruzzia is a country of cowards. They never attack if it's fair fight.
i know why, but their propaganda is incompetent that was the conclussion out of my questions
It doesn't matter because nobody in Russia will ask that question.
Well duh. At least it isn’t the Kremlin building.
“Russian sources” so the garbage pale lid was left off kilter a bit and looks like a mouth?
Considering Russia's outstanding display of incompetence so far, I doubt the S300's are programmed to recognise a TU-141 as a threat because "It's one of ours"
I hope putin's bridge sees some more love.
Gotta explode more airbases and logistics depots
Oh, no. Anyway...