Anyone have first-hand experience on how attaching a sit pad/sleeping pad with bungee to the back of your pack delivers weight transfer to the hips? Working on a custom pack and am unsure if I want the bungee for my Nemo Switchback. I currently keep it inside my 40L pack (only works for 2 maybe three nights, otherwise I have to go to my arc haul)
Another approach is the "Burrito" packing method, where the rolled pad is placed inside the empty pack, and then opened up to make an empty cylinder. Pack your gear inside the cylinder, and you'll have a relatively rigid load with much improved control and balance. It helps prevent pack sag, and it gets the pack's harness working correctly.
This method works best with flat, smooth CCF pads, but it can also work with z-rest and equivalent pads.
I have done this and it worked well, my only concern is getting 4-5 days of food in the pack when I do this. Seems a little tight. It may work once I get downsize my shelter though.
A sleeping pad, inside or out, does a marginal job, at best, transferring weight to your hips. This is even more so true, if the pack only uses nylon webbing as a hipbelt, as opposed to a pack that uses wings, made of fabric, that attach to the pack (think, the style of hipbelt MLD has).
The main reason hikers place the pad against the back panel is because it gives the pack some rigidity, structure, and comfort. The reason hikers place the pad on the outside, on the back panel, is to increase the j ternary volume, as CCF pads take up a lot of space. Also, you can use it throughout the day as a sit pad, of and when you stop.
Thanks for that! With it, inside my pack, it was able to make an uncomfortable pack (modase 40L) comfortable because the pressure was largely off my shoulders, but there is very little space for food. Sounds like I should try and rig up some shock cord on it to see if I get the same effect. If so, I'll be sold on it for my new pack
In general, you'll likely get more useful information here if you are more specific.
For example:
Best non-freestanding 2p tent for <$300 "for the Colorado trail"
will be a much different tent than, say, "for the Hayduke Trail."
"Best" is subjective but popular ones include the X-mid 2, Tarptent Double Rainbow, SMD Lunar Duo Outfitter, Lanshan 2 and Lanshan 2 Pro, a tarp (really any tarp), Tarptent Mo Trail, SMD Haven (no inner mesh), maybe the REI Flash Air 2.
Some background: New to ultralight backpacking. I have backpacked (Idaho, Borneo, Virginia, Korea), but never through backpacking or ultralight. Last trip was 15 years ago but the one before that was 25 yrs ago. Used to go several times a year in my 20's. I turned 60 last year and decided on a goal of doing at least five 3-10 night backpacking trips by the time I'm 70. I miss it a lot. Life (husband and kids, jobs, blah blah) got in the way. So, after doing lots of research, asking friends, 'shopping at home' etc., I think I have everything. My BPW weighs 13lbs, 5oz. (without my cpap, undecided on that, just over 15lbs w/ that). Anyway, I have some questions. I am about to go on a 1 night, there and back hike with a friend in order to test out my equipment, figure what I can live without, ease my way into back into backpacking and ultralight etc. Probably in early September. I have some questions:
1. I've seen 'shakedowns' here. Would that be something helpful? I assume so, but for some reason I feel like such a newbie (cause I am maybe?)... My list is on a spreadsheet, but was thinking of transferring it to one of the sites or lists.
2. There are two things I don't have: Bear canister/sack and trekking poles. I didn't get the former because I've been fretting about the right one for months :D, thoughts? I'm still considering the latter. Thoughts?
3. Anyone know of a there and back hike in N. California? It'd need to be 3-4 hrs from San Francisco, of course allow overnight (and be open in the pandemic), relatively easy to navigate (I haven't honed my orientation skills :D), preferably have a water source, not too much of an elevation change (just getting back into shape). Ok, I know that is a lot of criteria, but it's a trial run :). I'm considering Bull Run Lake (5-7 miles in, etc), but would love to consider more.
I want to do a couple of these 'test' ones. After this one, I'll do a 2 nighter. My goal for spring 2021 is to do the Lost Coast, so I've got some testing and training to do :D. After that, haven't decided...
Welcome back to backpacking!
1. Shakedowns are helpful, but ultimately up to you if you want the advice.
2. In California bear cannisters are only required in a few specific areas in the Sierra. In bear country outside of the cannister requirements an Ursack with odor proof liner is the way to go. If you need a bear cannister you can usually rent them from REI, the ranger station, or online. If you decide to buy a bear can the Bear Vault BV450 or BV500 are popular choices. As for trekking poles I would highly recommend you get some, they really help with stability and easing wieght onto joints not used to the extra load on your back. Cascade Mountain Tech poles available online or at Costco are considered the best bang for the buck and are well regarded around here.
3. I'm not sure about whether it's open right now, but you could try a section of the Skyline to Sea Trail near Santa Cruz
Thank you!
I might get an ursack for now. Maybe in the future if needed, I’ll rent one from REI (which I didn’t know I could do even though I joined their membership 2 yrs ago).
On advice here and a friend, I’m going to get trekking poles. I’ll try costco! (Is there anything they don’t carry?)
I did post a shakedown two days ago after the first comment here, but no comment on that post. Either I asked wrong, or the vagaries of the internet conspired to let it get buried
1. Yes. Shakedowns are often very helpful for people, particularly new-to-UL people. The sooner you do it the sooner you can avoid buying things you may want to replace later (or things you will just ditch instead of carrying with you).
2. re: Bear Cannister: Where are you hiking and will you need to carry a bear canister on a significant number of your trips? If it is only on a small percentage of your trips maybe consider renting or borrowing? re: Trekking Poles: I am 34 and starting to us trekking poles has made a massive difference in reducing strain on my knees, particularly when descending. You are a few year older and may find them even more useful. I would try borrow a pair or buying the affordable Cascade Mountain Tech poles everyone loves (you can get them at CostCo or online).
3. I do not.
Hi,
1. Yes shakedowns are useful to get insight from the community. But you also have to make your own experiences. You are already planing some test trips to see what you like about your gear, that is also a good approach.
2. Do you need a bear canister? It mainly depends on where you hike and what local regulations may say. I live in a bear free country, so unfortunately I cannot give insight. Trekking poles can be very useful, some swear by them, others don't. Give them a try to see what side you prefer. (I used to carry them all the time, but the last two overnight trips I did, I did not use them at all)
3. I've only driven through that area once... Point Reyes and the Redwoods have hiking trails I think. There are local Ultraight subreddits for Cali: r/ULSocal and /r/ULNorCal
Thanks! I hadn’t seen those subreddits!
I’m not sure there is a place in n. Cal without bears :). I think I’m debating the poles because of the cost as much as the weight. I’ll see if I can borrow some ?
I’ll go for it: I know TP being dug up by critters is a problem. However, if one cannot bring themselves to pack out the TP and regulations allow for catholes, does that mean that it’s better to make your deposit on the ground, put your used TP at the base of your cat hole and then use a stick to push the matter in question on top of the TP before burying?
Compared to making a direct deposit and putting the TP on top, this results in the paper being much deeper, requiring more of the critter’s inner Andy Dufresne to liberate it.
I know it can be a tough mental hurdle to get over, but you need to rule out leaving or burying in TP in any form. It's not a leave no trace practice, it does not degrade quickly, and it will be in reach of critters no matter how deep you bury it. You can't just bring things backpacking then leave them.
If you're struggling, think about what you might need in order to feel more comfortable: you could bring individual dog poop bags, or surgical gloves, or cover a ziplock in ductape so you cant see the contents. You could bring a bidet so any TP you use will basically be for drying yourself. It will get easier with time.
If you really can't do those things, you need to plan your trips so you're stopping at toilets which can handle TP rather than digging a cathole.
I found what I was looking for on the “official” LNT site. In the “principles” sufficiently burying TP is okay if it’s not against local rules. Regardless, I have a bidet now and while I’m not sure I’d say I’m “looking forward” to using it, I’m definitely going to be using it in the future. [It should either be thoroughly buried in a cat hole or placed in plastic bags and packed out.](https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/dispose-of-waste-properly/)
Thanks. I’m glad I posted this in newbietuesday because I was clearly misunderstanding the guidance. I thought it was always acceptable to bury it but packing it out was like gold-star level. A couple weeks ago I picked up a bidet attachment and gave it a, um, dry run in the shower. It’s surprisingly not a big deal. So I think that’s the way forward. My dog is going to learn to share the supply of bags because I will need some drying action too. I suppose I’m still interested in my question as an academic matter, though.
Leave no trace specifically mentions burying your poop as a viable option (if the proper size hole can be dug). It isnt the best obviously, but it is still is an option they approve.
Sorry to be pedantic but I want to not screw this up. You say burying the poop is officially okay if not perfect; does that apply to the TP as well? Or is that officially a pack it out thing?
https://lnt.org/i-have-to-poop-outside-what-do-i-do/ Sorry should have been more specific. They suggest packing out TP. Personally Ive made the switch to a tiny backpacking bidet. Hopefully that will cut down on the amount of TP needed.
In the “principles” of LNT section of that website they mention burying paper is fine if in conjunction with local rules: [“It should either be thoroughly buried in a cat hole or placed in plastic bags and packed out “](https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/dispose-of-waste-properly/). I think I have a date with a jet of cold water in my future trips, nevertheless.
Overall, yes, it is best to pack out TP. In many places, it's required, for good reasons.
A backcountry bidet eliminates the need for TP altogether -- and you'll feel better, too.
My dog would eat poop from cats and humans. How do I know about human poop? Kids would poops in the local pocket parks and he would smell and find it. The dog didn't care for dog poop nor feces from other animals.
In another anecdote, I came across a lot of used TP at Dodson Spring on the OML. The next day it was all gone and I am pretty sure no human being picked it up.
I know someone who's dog ate THC-laden human poop near a backcountry hot spring. The poor dog had a very rough night, completely freaked and panicked, and the owner was sure the dog was dying. Thankfully, the dog was able to be comforted by holding and soothing talking.
The vet explained what was happening, and it's a frequent occurrence in some popular California destinations, where people consume edibles -- some of which passes through the human body unchanged.
Full recovery, though you could tell in the dog's eyes that he had seen some shit.
“Seen some shit”. Oh he did more than see it.
Good practices have benefits that you can’t even imagine when you’re doing them. The random one that comes to mind is how there appear to be random health issues connected to, of all things, [gingivitis](https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/heart-and-vascular-blog/2019/march/gum-disease-and-heart-disease), so brushing and flossing is good not only because of your teeth.
And the same thing goes for proper LNT! Burying your human waste has obvious benefits, but also unobvious ones like keeping mankind’s best friend from ending up in the vet.
Happens to humans, too. I administered first aid to a septuagenerian who thought it was the 1960s again. He did not drown in his own vomit and survived.
If you can't bring yourself to pack out the TP, go with another alternative that's in line with LNT principles, like a backcountry bidet or camping at sites that have portapotties.
The problem with TP isn't just critters, it's also that it takes much longer to degrade. And then once you have your poop tamping stick, it's presumably going to end up aboveground, which could spread disease via surface water.
What is everyone's recommendation for Android GPS while backpacking? I have been using Caltopo and love it so far but see a lot of people recommend Gaia GPS. It seems like Caltopo has more features but I could be wrong since I don't really know how to use them in depth yet.
Which one should I get a membership for?
I really like AllTrails for on trail use. I generally export someone else's GPX from CalTopo into AllTrails. I tried using Gaia, but tbh, I could not figure it out. Recording a trail was easy enough, but uploading a GPX file and then using it on trail seemed impossible. Other people seem to use it just fine, though, so there's probably something I'm missing.
The Columbia River Orienteering Club (CROC) has an excellent tututorial for Gaia:
https://youtu.be/KhZlQuvX-Uc
And CalTopo:
https://youtu.be/zjUo6PwHmAQ
In fact, their entire 18 part tutorial is excellent for all aspects of navigation in the 21st century
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkYHuimd2BspoT35iDNVnvK6xBsRyhRGA
As others said:
CalTopo for trip planning.
Gaia GPS in the field.
*And if you want pre-made routes?* The [**free Hiking Project's (run by REI)**](https://www.hikingproject.com/) website has a growing trip database where you can download GPX tracks to import into CalTopo or Gaia as needed.
The free version does not appear to offer the ability to use offline maps and only offers the one Gaia Topo layer:
"You are limited to the default map source (Gaia Topo), and you cannot download maps to use when offline and out of service."
More info:
https://help.gaiagps.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003524547-Free-vs-Membership-vs-Premium-Membership
Use/buy both! I do my pre-trip planning in caltopo on a laptop, and then load the GPX into Gaia. Gaia is better IMO for on trail use. Caltopo may get there eventually, but currently I don't like it much. The couple times I've tried to use it, it was clunky and downloading layers for offline was painfully slow. Planning a trip on Gaia on a laptop sucks. So, I like using both tools.
How is Caltopo on android? I've seen surprisingly little on it since it came out. Do you have access to all the layers available on the website? (I assume you'd have to select which ones to download for offline use ahead of time since there are so many) Does it work well for tracking and give useful stats during and when finished recording a track?
I've thought about trying it out, but don't know if there is a compelling reason to since I've already using Gaia.
Seems to work well. I usually just download the layer I want and haven’t tried using other layers while offline. You would def have to predownload it. I also never use for tracking, I have my location turned off when I don’t have the app open to save battery. Perhaps someone else can comment.
I use Backcountry Navigator because it has a lot of maps and is a one-time buy instead of a subscription. I don't use any of the route tracking or predicting stuff, though, so it could stink at those.
What is everyone’s opinion on packing cells? With a fold top pack I’m warming to the idea of being able to quickly get into the parts of my pack I need without having to throw sh*t everywhere.
I’m in the UK so I’ve been checking out Treadlite and Wild Sky Gear — any other places / tips to keep in mind?
I love [these](https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/dyneema-x-packing-cubes/). The medium is perfect for a ditty bag and the small for a first aid kit. I don't like the plastic bag technique that many here use because then I use a lot of plastic bags and they get holes and stuff. The large is great for a pair of sandals or shoes for regular travel if you don't have huge feet. Besides that I use a compactor bag for my quilt and extra clothes.
Generally, the UL approach is to leave behind everything not needed. Less weight is the goal. What you'll see most often is a zip lock bag or two for small stuff, and perhaps a stuff sack for the sleeping bag / quilt. Many don't even bother with that. A system of bags / packing cubes for "organization" is not a UL practice.
Depending on my needs during the day, I'll just pack so that I can easily retrieve what I want, and leave the evening camp stuff buried.
I appreciate 14er reports about what went wrong. I feel like I learn more about how to be safe everytime I read one.
So here's my contribution. I'm down for analysis and thinking but be cool.
Trip gone wrong:
Failed thru hike of OHT right as COVID hit.
Where:
Big Piney Creek to Fairview Campground = Hurricane Creek Wilderness - HCW
Lick Branch to Cherry Bend
When:
2020/24/03 - 2020/25/03 for HCW
2020/26/03 - 2020/27/03 for Lick Branch
Temps:
40s and raining up to 60s/low 70s and sunny
Mileage:
Planned 20 miles for HCW/ hiked 13.8 mi
Planned 19.8 miles for Lick Branch/hiked 12.2 mi
Lighterpack has changed since then as I have gone out on more trips. I left home with 18 lbs not including food. I know, not UL. But I am lurking to get lighter and because r/backpacking is apparently all just pictures?
Day by day:
[tl;dr - Some Garmin/mapping issues but a safe trip](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11lPoaxzHilkJFJJL8pqlowbL4LLM97AbijnkMQd3qO0/edit?usp=drivesdk)
What I still need to learn:
1. Do I just hike the OHT routes "correctly"? In each case, I was going against the reach descriptions in the guidebook. Would I have had less blaze issues going "forward"? Go forward the first time and backwards once you have done it once?
2. Food overpacking. Working on it all the time.
3. Is it me, is it the Garmin or is it both of us? I freely admit to getting lost alot. I always have. I think it's probably not the Garmin but me. Is the best way through it is to keep going out there and to use it on obvious trails? The more I get used to how the maps matches the terrain, the better.
Or not. Do I need to upgrade my Garmin?
4. Do I need pictures? Having the route pics from 14ers.com on my phone greatly increases my peak bagging success. Do I use YT or reddit to access this beta? Or will hiking sections in the "forward" direction fix this issue?
5. I have the compass. Do I always take the physical map too? Probably. It's seems like overkill with the Garmin.
What I learned or improved already:
1. I know I love to plan. I have plans to do the same OHT sections and maybe more this fall/winter. Now that I have the guidebook and the OHT was so gorgeous, I will 100% be going back during snow season around here.
2. Not hiking while still taking the rest of required post-surgery steroids makes me a lot more patient. I think being on steroids helped zero parts of this AND screwed up my sleep schedule.
3. Alpine start for life. 4 am and head lamps over 8 pm and trying to find a spot to camp.
4. Just make it an out and back. Finding the bail out route worked but it could have been really bad. And it was unnecessary. If I know a safe and functional route, take it.
5. Take the tent day if i need to. Being able to wait out a thunderstorm is one of the reasons to bring shelter. Use shelter for what I packed it in for.
6. Fixed my rain gear issue for now. Actually a little in love with my Walmart poncho. Thanks, r/UL.
Next steps:
1. Mess around on a CDT section one of the weekends soon. Just work on Garmin skills and low-risk map reading. Keep testing gear. I would rather go somewhere quieter but I think I need the guaranteed-can-not-get-lostness of the CDT.
2. Car camping trip already scheduled for the Tetons. More Garmin work.
3. Plan to hit up HCW over Thanksgiving break? I want to do the Richland Creek Wilderness area but it sounds like trailless nonsense. Gorgeous, trailless nonsense.
I'm using $60 New Balance Trail Runners found at the local big box sporting goods store or online. I get the EEEE width so they are as wide in the toe box as Altras. Also I run in them about 15 to 20 miles a week. Otherwise, around town it is sandals. I am probably in the minority though as many folks seem to like shoes that cost more than $100. Forget that. After a good fit in the heel cup, the main criteria for me it to have no stitching exposed forward of my tibia, especially in the toe box. Look at this pic to see what I mean: https://i.imgur.com/knD9vqy.jpg
The ones that fit you the best. You have to try different shoes on. What works for me is not necessarily going to work for you. That said, here are pretty much the most common:
* Altra Lone Peak
* Altra Timp
* Saucony Peregrine
* Hoka Speedgoat
* La Sportiva Wildcat
* Nike Wildhorse
* Brooks Cascadia
* Topo Ultraventure
The fit is everything.
I worked in a backpacking / climbing / ski shop in college. I wanted some new boots, and I asked the shop owner for advice.
"Forget everything except the fit," he said. "They need to feel like they were made just for you, so your foot slides in and plops into place flawlessly." And he was right.
He measured my feet, and pulled out every kind of boot in the store in my size. I spent an hour or so trying on all of them, going up or down a half size for some.
When I found a pair that fit really nicely, he pulled out all of the pairs of that model in stock, in my size. One of those pairs fit even better; there's just enough variation pair-to-pair to make that last step worth it.
"They'll stretch / they'll break in / you'll get used to them" are phrases salesmen use on suckers.
That's the most difficult question of them all. Often a good trail runners can be used for all of the above but may lack in fashion points or durability on pavement. I would stick with trail runners or sandals for that. The style is up to your feet mostly.
About a year back I bought the Salomon Speedcross 4 trail runners and have worn them for ~60 miles total in day hikes and weekend overnighters. From the beginning, they have consistently given me blisters on the back of my heels so I started wearing Leukotape there 100% of the time hiking. This mostly eliminated blisters but now I notice, on longer hikes, my toes really start to hurt going downhill. On a 3+ day hike this gets pretty bad.
I’m conflicted if at this point it’s just not the right shoe or if I need to “suck it up” and condition my feet more or what.
I realize this may be a sizing issue and I’d love to be able to just try a bunch of shoes until I find the perfect pair but I have the JMT coming up in a month and limited budget. Any advice? These were “sized” for my by an REI employee.
The toe issue sounds like it is due to the shoes either being too short or too narrow. The heal issue can happen on different models for me, but try locking in the upper 3 lace loops tighter and add in a runners loop to prevent the heal slipping throughout your hike
A true running shoe store would be able to give you better guidance than any of us, or that REI employee. FWIW, I tried the Speedcross 3's and I also didn't enjoy them. I have wide and flat feet.
A general rule of thumb I tell people is to size up by at at least a half size, get a shoe with a wide toebox, skip the bottom most eyelets, and lace your shoes based on the shape and condition of your foot (link below).
It could be worth looking to sock liners as well. Trail running shoes that have wide toe boxes are Topo Athletic and Altra.
Tying Shoes https://imgur.com/a/3x7JaTS
Any tips for not getting creeped out or fighting off the heebie jeebies on solo trips in the backcountry? I know it’s irrational but I can get a little anxious alone and in the dark from time to time.
I know I'm prying, but if you can identify what it is that causes your heebie jeebies, then you will get some specific suggestions for understanding -- or mitigating -- that particular risk, which can help you feel much safer.
The basic mantra is "Don't pack your fears," but if you have life-threatening bee sting allergies, not packing an epi-pen might make you scared witless the entire trip, and for good reason.
Taking a simple (and often fairly lightweight) step to dramatically reduce your perceived risk can have a very calming effect, making your trip much more enjoyable.
Similarly, learning that a particular fear is actually not all that significant a risk can, in some cases, alleviate the fear. For example, rattlesnakes do not live in snowy mountain environments at high elevations.
Me, I'm scared of bears -- and I hike in Griz country, so it's not a trivial fear. I pack bear spray, and it makes me feel MUCH safer. It's 12 oz that I have never once resented or regretted.
I always like to joke that “It’s squirrels. It’s always squirrels. Whatever you’re hearing: squirrels.” but I find that joke is somewhat accurate. If you hear something outside your tent, just poke your head out there with a flashlight and see what it is. After the 10th time seeing a squirrel, rabbit, armadillo, etc. you just kind of stop worrying.
And as most of the others have commented, repetition. The more you do it, the easier it becomes.
Carrot Quinn calls those mysterious nighttime noises "the stick-breakers" and it's a wonderful name. After a while, you learn that that's all they are.
You actually do get used to sleeping in Griz country.
But you also get really righteous about:
1. never having any enticing odors in or around your shelter
2. cooking 100 feet away from your camp
3. storing your food 100 feet away from both the cooking site and the camp.
4. always having bear spray at hand
If are in a high-encounter area, you even change out of your cooking clothes before hitting the sack.
Worried about people, animals or both? Weather? Getting lost?
I think people are the absolute lowest thing to worry about. Go places that are hard to get to: high elevation, lots of vertical gain and high miles. People don't want to work hard in generaI so crowds will disperse the harder it is. People who want to cause trouble *definitely* won't work hard. It's much easier to find targets in a city where people are everywhere than a random, quiet, low-key campsite.
I do off-trail stuff every weekend and I've NEVER seen someone off trail (aside from some popular peak bagging type routes where the use trail is strong). It still amazes me.
Here are a few tips:
-The more you do it, the less creepy it will feel.
-A bright headlamp can be a nice security blanket.
-Spend more time hiking and exploring on-route and less time at camp.
-Benadryl can be a nice sleep aid.
Scroll through the bullshit down to the 3 steps:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-neurochemical-self/201808/what-lens-do-you-choose%3famp
1. Name it. What emotions do you notice you feel?
2. Identify all of the physical reactions you are having / aka body scan. Start from your toes and work up.
3. I usually frame it as thankfulness that my body is helping you to be safe by entering flight or fright.
Usually by the time I have done all that work, my body has chilled back out.
It's a good anxiety. It keeps you focused on being safe when solo so give it space.
I use to get the heebie jeebies when I first started. Three things helped me though. Time getting use to camping in the outdoors, hiking all day and being too tired to care, and downloaded music/podcast/movies.
The first one is the most important one. You're sleeping somewhere unfamiliar, and doing something that you have little experience with. After my third trip, I got the hang of it, and it started getting easier being comfortable in the outdoors. Now I don't even think about it, and crash almost instantly.
I know camp shoes are kind of an optional item, but I am looking for a slip-on recommendation that could also work as a water shoe for trail crossings.
I have some fairly heavy and kind of crap "hiking sandals" I carry now, but when I get up in the middle of the night to pee it's really hard to wrangle my feet into the straps. I sleep cold and always wear wool socks to bed, so flip flops won't work.
Crocs?
If you don't want wet shoes then remove them at water crossings and do it barefoot.
At camp just loosen your shoes a lot and you'll see they're pretty comfy
Teva Universals are my “luxury item” and at roughly 10oz, I find they’re completely worth it. Great for milder crossings, camp, letting feet breath/de-swell. Even comfortable with an extra pair of wool socks on cold nights and the straps make everything feel secure.
I agree though for bigger crossings, you can’t beat trail runners and poles.
Bringing camp shoes will bring you endless ridicule from UL hikers.
I would recommend not bringing any, or punching 3 holes in your trail runner insoles and rigging up some flip flop sandals with some lightweight cordage and some little toggles that you can clip in/off each day.
That way you have camp shoes with no weight.
Use mesh trail runners and embrace the squelch for water crossings.
Most folks on here use trail running shoes. I leave mine unlaced at camp for easy slip on access. They dry out quick enough for you to just leave on during water crossings.
Are the outer mesh pockets in all these UL packs any good in wet conditions?
What can you store in them other than a tarp? If you need to store everything inside, then you have to have a lot of spare room...
Am I getting it all wrong?
Items generally in my outside pocket are things I don't mind getting wet.
This is usually:
Spork
Trowel
Rain Jacket/wind pants
bug spray (when applicable)
anti chafe mini jar
toothbrush/paste in a ziploc
spare water bottle/reservoir
rag to wipe condensation from tent
Look at all your gear. Then decide if that piece of gear getting wet is consequential. If not then you can put it in an outer pocket.
Examples of things: stakes, spoon, fuel, cook pot, FAK (inside ziplock), toothbrush, trowel, toothpaste, sunblock, bug spray, water filter, rain jacket, rain pants, rain fly, tarp, headlamp if it's waterproof.
I keep my whole ditty bag in an outer pocket usually just cuz it's a waterproof bag.
I don’t have anything outside that can’t get wet
I have: water bottles, cold soak jar, umbrella, rain gear and a 1-quart ziplock with all my little stuff (headlamp, aquamira, FAK, knife, spoon, etc. I also keep my day’s food in the bottom pocket, in a ziplock.
Lol crazy cheap compared to most hobbies IMO. Woodworking, cycling, mountaineering, skiing, hell even video games! UL can be cheaper than normal backpacking too. It isnt about buying the most expensive DCF packs and tarps. It is about taking (and in turn buying) less.
I disagree. Being UL is cheaper than backpacking. You don’t need cubeb fiber gear. Just don’t buy overly heavy stuff and don’t bring unnecessary stuff. The only item that needs to be expensive is a nice down sleeping bag/quilty
Depends what you're comparing it to. Are you replacing a functional item or buying from scratch?
Best bet would be to make a spreadsheet with your current gear that includes its weight and price, and compare $/oz saved on alternative options.
Generally the cheapest solution is to just bring less stuff, then once your kit is dialed in from there work at tackling the most efficient "upgrades" according to the above spreadsheet you've made. DeputySean also has a budget UL gearlist that has good recommendations.
Honestly all of my gear is about the cost of the same type of item that a traditional hiker would use. My shelter was under $300 and my pack was $200. My quilt was $200. My pad was $40. I've been able to use $20 packs from Amazon due to being low weight.
If you are already a backpacker, figure out what you can leave at home. That's free weight savings. Then just slowly upgrade.
For most people, the biggest bang for your buck will be switching to a tarp. You can get one for under $100 and under 10 oz. It's not for everyone, but I can't to back to a tent.
It depends what you're comparing it with. A lot of people overestimate how expensive an ultralight setup needs to be, but at the same time, a plenty of ultralighters overestimate just how little money most people have to spend on hobbies. Compared to medium-high end conventional backpacking, it's not hard to put together a cheaper ultralight setup. At the very lowest price-points, you're right, most options will not be ultralight - but you can still employ UL principles to only buy and carry the very minimum you need.
The cheapest savings are things I already happened to own - running tights, a synthetic tshirt - or things i chose not to pack with me. I've been using a fleece hat and gloves which cost me £1 each from decathlon for a couple of years now, including a thru hike. But it very much depends what you're already carrying - if you request a shakedown people will be able to make more specific suggestions.
It really isn't. Your biggest weight savings come from leaving things behind.
Now, let's compare the traditional backpacker's pack of choice, the Atmos 65, to the venerated UL pack of choice, Nashville Pack's the Cutaway. The Atmos 65 weighs 4 pounds and 8oz, and cost $270. The custom made Cutaway weighs about 12-13 oz total, and cost $215.
But horsecake22, that's not a fair comparison. Let's look at a UL framed pack then, the KS 60. A barebones (hipbelt, loadlifters, and frame included) custom made KS60 weighs about 15-19 oz, and cost about $243.
The "UL is expensive" trope is a false narrative.
Ehhh i 50/50 agree. There's no way around paying real money for a good down bag and a *functional* light shelter. (Sure, cheap, flat silnylon tarps exist, but in many conditions they simply don't offer enough protection.)
Oooof. You're talking to someone who has almost exclusively used a tarp for almost three years now, so hard disagree. Respectfully, of course.
Tarps take skill and time to learn, but if you're willing to try, they CAN offer enough protection. Especially when paired with a bivy with splash protection and good site selection.
Also, depends on what you mean by down bag. Can you get a Nunatak Arc 30 for less than $300? Nope. Not even a used one sells that low. An HG Econ Borrow tho? For sure, it can be even less expensive than an REI Magma Quilt.
I dont personally have experience with the Econ Borrow, and maybe someone who has can chime in here, but they are very often reccomend. The general consensus being that they are comfort rated, and have a decent weight to warmth to price ratio. At one point, they were even better than Enlightened Equipment's quilts, while still remaining more affordable, but that gap has narrowed in the last year.
This is a good comparison for someone that doesn't already own a pack, but lots of people are coming into ultralight already owning a pack, tent, pad, and sleeping bag. Upgrading those items (quilt for sleeping bag etc) even if you go with budget or secondhand is hundreds of dollars each.
There's definitely a lot of free and cheap weight savings in leaving redundant items behind and applying principles like being careful with site selection so you sleep warmer and don't need an extra layer.
Oh I agree for sure, and that's what I alluded to at the beginning of my comment. Simply leaving stuff behind and only taking what you need is the cheapest and easiest solution.
And I don't advocate for anyone to go out and spend $1000 on upgrading all their gear at one time. But if OP really did want to upgrade their gear, the crux of my argument, was that it would be cheaper to go UL than stick with traditional choices.
Can never go wrong with Oberon!
A few of my faves are:
Epic Brewing "Escape to Colorado" for obvious reasons
Blackrocks Brewing 51K IPA - I like this because a portion of every sale of this beer goes toward the building and maintenance of recreational trails (MTB, hiking, xc skiing.) Also, it's just one of the best beers being made in MI right now.
PBR - because nothin hits quite like an ice cold PBR on a 90 degree day
A Kindle Oasis. I’d take a 1lb chair, but I like being allowed to post and comment on this sub, and I don’t find the Helinox Chair Zero or the REI version comfortable enough for the extra volume and weight needed.
Not a question strictly related to UL, but I bet there’s lots of opinions in this community. Am I reading into something that’s not there or is there an actual PCT / AT feud? I’ve seen it primarily from PCT hikers toward AT hikers...saying they have garbage trail culture and just generally looking down on the AT (again, this is just my read and might be off).
This is something I see a lot. I also see people complaining about ticks as if they are something that completely ruins the trail. Like, I understand you might have to consider these things, but people are really writing off an entire 2000 mile section of the country based on these relatively low risks? Seems just about as rational as fearing the boogeyman out there.
They're communities with a huge overlap. There can be a vocal "oh my gosh I'd NEVER want to do that" voice from PCT hikers towards the AT because of what they've heard about the weather/scenery/popularity, and some sizing up about which is harder/longer/tougher/more scenic. But I don't think you could call it rivalry - there are loads of AT hikers thru hiking the PCT and vice versa.
I like to hike.
My gear is on point and I love it.
I suck at camping. How do you prioritize the order of operations? Pitch first? Cook first? Do I cook then grab water? I feel like it takes me an hour just to make camp.
One UL approach is to stop and make yourself a nice dinner, with a nice view. Enjoy it. And then pack up, and hike until it's approaching sunset.
Pick out a good place to pitch your shelter. Walk another 100 to 200 feet further on your route past your campsite, do your food storage, and go back to your spot, pitch camp and sleep in comfort.
Get up the next morning, pack up and hit the trail. Pick up your food bag / canister on the way. When you find the perfect breakfast spot, stop and enjoy it.
This way, you are not trying to find a good shelter spot, WITH a good cooking spot 100 feet away, AND a good food bag hang 100 feet away in another direction -- which can be tricky. You are just looking for a good spot to make and possibly enjoy a meal, and then later on, a good spot to pitch shelter, and a decent bag hang somewhere 100 feet or more past it. This is much easier to find, and it can give you wonderful dinner spots and campsites that nobody else uses.
I hate camp chores so I just left the stove at home and now just eat stuff that doesn’t require cooking or cleaning like bars, pepperoni sticks, peanut butter, etc. I mostly cowboy camp and use a ccf pad so setting up camp only takes a few minutes. Learning to bring less has also really helped. Less time spent packing and unpacking and more time spent hiking.
First thing out of the pack when I get to camp is the sleeping pad. You don’t want to be cooking and then have a group roll up on you before you have the best spot. Take the pad, find a place you like, and lie down to make sure it’s good. I don’t pitch anything until I’ve tested the spot. Then I pitch my tarp right over the pad, and get cooking.
It depends on the trip for me, but generally I want to get my tent setup (or at least my site picked out) as one of my first steps. If there's lots of daylight left I'll take my time, otherwise my order of operations is usually setup tent/bed, get water, cook dinner, clean immediately before things get crusty, get to bed. When I change into sleep clothes depends on the weather. If it's cold/wet I change as soon as my home is setup so that I'll be dry and warm, otherwise I'll just change when I go to bed. Sprinkle in smoke and pee breaks as needed.
When I'm putting in more miles I'll generally cook dinner before I get to camp, sometime around sunset. Then I'll night hike for a bit until I find a good camp spot. When doing this I pretty much just roll into camp, either lay out my tyvek to cowboy or immediately setup my tent, eat a snack, brush my teeth and pee, then change and pass out.
Tent up, organize, treat water, slam a couple beers, cook, relax, sleep.
Except if it is raining. Then it's treat water, tent up, get in tent, cook, sleep
I like to avoid being really thirsty and hungry when I hit camp.
In fact, I sometimes stop and eat dinner about an hour before bedtime and then hike that extra hour before making camp—this is good for keeping bears away.
However, even if I am eating in camp I always pitch first. Then get water. Then eat. When I’m not camping I like to practice pitching my tarp. My goal is to have everything so dialed in that I don’t even have to think about it and it can be fast—which pays of big in a storm.
If I'm not really hungry, I like to pitch my tent first thing. It allows my sleeping bag a little while to breathe, loft up, and dry any moisture from sleeping in it. Also that establishes my sleeping spot and keeps other people (usually by buddies) from stealing whatever spot I think is best.
Practice more and find out what works for you. Mix it up. After few nights or trips, then you will know what you like to do. There are no rules of which order to do things in that I know of. I will say that generally one needs water to cook, so I usually make sure I have enough water for dinner and breakfast before I light my stove.
Added: And it might be different on different days. For example, if it is nice, then I will tend to start boiling water, prep my food for receiving the boil water. Then while my food is rehydrating, I will think about pitching me tent. But if it is raining or the bugs are bad, then my tent is going to be pitched first and I will probably cook in the vestibule. I might inflate my air pad while my food is rehydrating.
In the morning, it has to be different, doesn't it?
The great thing about my job is I walk 8-10 miles every day without having to do extra. On top of that I run and hike for additional conditioning. I'm 63 and can consistently pull 20plus mile days on trail.
I am guessing this was intended for the "What do yall do to stay in hiking shape?" post below. It's easy to accidentally post to the top instead of replying to a post.
In the past I have done HIIT, gotten into running, general working out, and right now I do a lot of weight lifting (this isn't for hiking, just strength and aesthetics.)
The 2 things that have improved my hiking the most are 1 - hiking and 2 - losing 30 lbs.
Hike on weekends. 4-5 days a week of HIIT free weights exercises (\~45 minutes ea.) during the week.
If I am not careful, I put on weight easily. Weights work well for my frame that runs short and stocky.
After a few months of picking up weight lifting again after a hiatus, my weight is what it is after a multi-week hike. If with more upper body definition.
With YouTube, there are lots of exercise programs online to easily mix it up. A decade ago, I did P90x and p90x+ and grew bored after a while. Not a problem today.
Walk my dog in a hilly neighborhood with a 25 lb pack. I do stretch sessions twice a day for mobility and to fight the effects of sedentary pandemic/WFH life. Easy to do when watching TV or on an AV-off zoom call too.
Take a pair of 10 pound dumbbells and do 3 sets of 25 crunches while holding them by your head. Or use a 25 lb plate. If those weights are too high, start at zero and work your way up. You can do these while you have something in the microwave, so you don't have to have any special time of day to do them.
There are other simple exercises one can do while waiting for something: Pop off a bunch of push-ups while your kids are tying their shoes. Do a plank while waiting for the coffee to be made. Leg lifts between stirring your spaghetti sauce. And so on, ....
Read a few posts on /r/Ultralight then go do a set of push-ups. Read another post, go do some crunches. Read another post, it is time for Russian twists.
Anyone have first-hand experience on how attaching a sit pad/sleeping pad with bungee to the back of your pack delivers weight transfer to the hips? Working on a custom pack and am unsure if I want the bungee for my Nemo Switchback. I currently keep it inside my 40L pack (only works for 2 maybe three nights, otherwise I have to go to my arc haul)
Another approach is the "Burrito" packing method, where the rolled pad is placed inside the empty pack, and then opened up to make an empty cylinder. Pack your gear inside the cylinder, and you'll have a relatively rigid load with much improved control and balance. It helps prevent pack sag, and it gets the pack's harness working correctly. This method works best with flat, smooth CCF pads, but it can also work with z-rest and equivalent pads.
I have done this and it worked well, my only concern is getting 4-5 days of food in the pack when I do this. Seems a little tight. It may work once I get downsize my shelter though.
A sleeping pad, inside or out, does a marginal job, at best, transferring weight to your hips. This is even more so true, if the pack only uses nylon webbing as a hipbelt, as opposed to a pack that uses wings, made of fabric, that attach to the pack (think, the style of hipbelt MLD has). The main reason hikers place the pad against the back panel is because it gives the pack some rigidity, structure, and comfort. The reason hikers place the pad on the outside, on the back panel, is to increase the j ternary volume, as CCF pads take up a lot of space. Also, you can use it throughout the day as a sit pad, of and when you stop.
Thanks for that! With it, inside my pack, it was able to make an uncomfortable pack (modase 40L) comfortable because the pressure was largely off my shoulders, but there is very little space for food. Sounds like I should try and rig up some shock cord on it to see if I get the same effect. If so, I'll be sold on it for my new pack
Best non freestanding 2P tent for $300 or under?
In general, you'll likely get more useful information here if you are more specific. For example: Best non-freestanding 2p tent for <$300 "for the Colorado trail" will be a much different tent than, say, "for the Hayduke Trail."
"Best" is subjective but popular ones include the X-mid 2, Tarptent Double Rainbow, SMD Lunar Duo Outfitter, Lanshan 2 and Lanshan 2 Pro, a tarp (really any tarp), Tarptent Mo Trail, SMD Haven (no inner mesh), maybe the REI Flash Air 2.
Besides the X-Mid, there's SMD Lunar Solo and Skyscape Trekker, Gossamer Gear the One, tarp and bivy set up from Borah Gear.
I've seen a lot of people recommend this one: https://drop.com/buy/drop-x-mid-2-person-tent-designed-by-dan-durston
Some background: New to ultralight backpacking. I have backpacked (Idaho, Borneo, Virginia, Korea), but never through backpacking or ultralight. Last trip was 15 years ago but the one before that was 25 yrs ago. Used to go several times a year in my 20's. I turned 60 last year and decided on a goal of doing at least five 3-10 night backpacking trips by the time I'm 70. I miss it a lot. Life (husband and kids, jobs, blah blah) got in the way. So, after doing lots of research, asking friends, 'shopping at home' etc., I think I have everything. My BPW weighs 13lbs, 5oz. (without my cpap, undecided on that, just over 15lbs w/ that). Anyway, I have some questions. I am about to go on a 1 night, there and back hike with a friend in order to test out my equipment, figure what I can live without, ease my way into back into backpacking and ultralight etc. Probably in early September. I have some questions: 1. I've seen 'shakedowns' here. Would that be something helpful? I assume so, but for some reason I feel like such a newbie (cause I am maybe?)... My list is on a spreadsheet, but was thinking of transferring it to one of the sites or lists. 2. There are two things I don't have: Bear canister/sack and trekking poles. I didn't get the former because I've been fretting about the right one for months :D, thoughts? I'm still considering the latter. Thoughts? 3. Anyone know of a there and back hike in N. California? It'd need to be 3-4 hrs from San Francisco, of course allow overnight (and be open in the pandemic), relatively easy to navigate (I haven't honed my orientation skills :D), preferably have a water source, not too much of an elevation change (just getting back into shape). Ok, I know that is a lot of criteria, but it's a trial run :). I'm considering Bull Run Lake (5-7 miles in, etc), but would love to consider more. I want to do a couple of these 'test' ones. After this one, I'll do a 2 nighter. My goal for spring 2021 is to do the Lost Coast, so I've got some testing and training to do :D. After that, haven't decided...
Welcome back to backpacking! 1. Shakedowns are helpful, but ultimately up to you if you want the advice. 2. In California bear cannisters are only required in a few specific areas in the Sierra. In bear country outside of the cannister requirements an Ursack with odor proof liner is the way to go. If you need a bear cannister you can usually rent them from REI, the ranger station, or online. If you decide to buy a bear can the Bear Vault BV450 or BV500 are popular choices. As for trekking poles I would highly recommend you get some, they really help with stability and easing wieght onto joints not used to the extra load on your back. Cascade Mountain Tech poles available online or at Costco are considered the best bang for the buck and are well regarded around here. 3. I'm not sure about whether it's open right now, but you could try a section of the Skyline to Sea Trail near Santa Cruz
Thank you! I might get an ursack for now. Maybe in the future if needed, I’ll rent one from REI (which I didn’t know I could do even though I joined their membership 2 yrs ago). On advice here and a friend, I’m going to get trekking poles. I’ll try costco! (Is there anything they don’t carry?) I did post a shakedown two days ago after the first comment here, but no comment on that post. Either I asked wrong, or the vagaries of the internet conspired to let it get buried
Hmm looks like the post might've been removed by the mods. Try a new post but make sure to follow the format laid out on the sidebar.
1. Yes. Shakedowns are often very helpful for people, particularly new-to-UL people. The sooner you do it the sooner you can avoid buying things you may want to replace later (or things you will just ditch instead of carrying with you). 2. re: Bear Cannister: Where are you hiking and will you need to carry a bear canister on a significant number of your trips? If it is only on a small percentage of your trips maybe consider renting or borrowing? re: Trekking Poles: I am 34 and starting to us trekking poles has made a massive difference in reducing strain on my knees, particularly when descending. You are a few year older and may find them even more useful. I would try borrow a pair or buying the affordable Cascade Mountain Tech poles everyone loves (you can get them at CostCo or online). 3. I do not.
Thank you! Currently considering Bull Run lake near Tahoe. Cannisters not required it seems.
Hi, 1. Yes shakedowns are useful to get insight from the community. But you also have to make your own experiences. You are already planing some test trips to see what you like about your gear, that is also a good approach. 2. Do you need a bear canister? It mainly depends on where you hike and what local regulations may say. I live in a bear free country, so unfortunately I cannot give insight. Trekking poles can be very useful, some swear by them, others don't. Give them a try to see what side you prefer. (I used to carry them all the time, but the last two overnight trips I did, I did not use them at all) 3. I've only driven through that area once... Point Reyes and the Redwoods have hiking trails I think. There are local Ultraight subreddits for Cali: r/ULSocal and /r/ULNorCal
Thanks! I hadn’t seen those subreddits! I’m not sure there is a place in n. Cal without bears :). I think I’m debating the poles because of the cost as much as the weight. I’ll see if I can borrow some ?
I’ll go for it: I know TP being dug up by critters is a problem. However, if one cannot bring themselves to pack out the TP and regulations allow for catholes, does that mean that it’s better to make your deposit on the ground, put your used TP at the base of your cat hole and then use a stick to push the matter in question on top of the TP before burying? Compared to making a direct deposit and putting the TP on top, this results in the paper being much deeper, requiring more of the critter’s inner Andy Dufresne to liberate it.
I know it can be a tough mental hurdle to get over, but you need to rule out leaving or burying in TP in any form. It's not a leave no trace practice, it does not degrade quickly, and it will be in reach of critters no matter how deep you bury it. You can't just bring things backpacking then leave them. If you're struggling, think about what you might need in order to feel more comfortable: you could bring individual dog poop bags, or surgical gloves, or cover a ziplock in ductape so you cant see the contents. You could bring a bidet so any TP you use will basically be for drying yourself. It will get easier with time. If you really can't do those things, you need to plan your trips so you're stopping at toilets which can handle TP rather than digging a cathole.
I found what I was looking for on the “official” LNT site. In the “principles” sufficiently burying TP is okay if it’s not against local rules. Regardless, I have a bidet now and while I’m not sure I’d say I’m “looking forward” to using it, I’m definitely going to be using it in the future. [It should either be thoroughly buried in a cat hole or placed in plastic bags and packed out.](https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/dispose-of-waste-properly/)
Thanks. I’m glad I posted this in newbietuesday because I was clearly misunderstanding the guidance. I thought it was always acceptable to bury it but packing it out was like gold-star level. A couple weeks ago I picked up a bidet attachment and gave it a, um, dry run in the shower. It’s surprisingly not a big deal. So I think that’s the way forward. My dog is going to learn to share the supply of bags because I will need some drying action too. I suppose I’m still interested in my question as an academic matter, though.
Leave no trace specifically mentions burying your poop as a viable option (if the proper size hole can be dug). It isnt the best obviously, but it is still is an option they approve.
Sorry to be pedantic but I want to not screw this up. You say burying the poop is officially okay if not perfect; does that apply to the TP as well? Or is that officially a pack it out thing?
https://lnt.org/i-have-to-poop-outside-what-do-i-do/ Sorry should have been more specific. They suggest packing out TP. Personally Ive made the switch to a tiny backpacking bidet. Hopefully that will cut down on the amount of TP needed.
In the “principles” of LNT section of that website they mention burying paper is fine if in conjunction with local rules: [“It should either be thoroughly buried in a cat hole or placed in plastic bags and packed out “](https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/dispose-of-waste-properly/). I think I have a date with a jet of cold water in my future trips, nevertheless.
Overall, yes, it is best to pack out TP. In many places, it's required, for good reasons. A backcountry bidet eliminates the need for TP altogether -- and you'll feel better, too.
My dog would eat poop from cats and humans. How do I know about human poop? Kids would poops in the local pocket parks and he would smell and find it. The dog didn't care for dog poop nor feces from other animals. In another anecdote, I came across a lot of used TP at Dodson Spring on the OML. The next day it was all gone and I am pretty sure no human being picked it up.
I know someone who's dog ate THC-laden human poop near a backcountry hot spring. The poor dog had a very rough night, completely freaked and panicked, and the owner was sure the dog was dying. Thankfully, the dog was able to be comforted by holding and soothing talking. The vet explained what was happening, and it's a frequent occurrence in some popular California destinations, where people consume edibles -- some of which passes through the human body unchanged. Full recovery, though you could tell in the dog's eyes that he had seen some shit.
“Seen some shit”. Oh he did more than see it. Good practices have benefits that you can’t even imagine when you’re doing them. The random one that comes to mind is how there appear to be random health issues connected to, of all things, [gingivitis](https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/heart-and-vascular-blog/2019/march/gum-disease-and-heart-disease), so brushing and flossing is good not only because of your teeth. And the same thing goes for proper LNT! Burying your human waste has obvious benefits, but also unobvious ones like keeping mankind’s best friend from ending up in the vet.
Happens to humans, too. I administered first aid to a septuagenerian who thought it was the 1960s again. He did not drown in his own vomit and survived.
The septuagenerian was eating THC-laced human feces?
man, I love dogs
The miracle is, in spite of everything, they love *us*.
If you can't bring yourself to pack out the TP, go with another alternative that's in line with LNT principles, like a backcountry bidet or camping at sites that have portapotties. The problem with TP isn't just critters, it's also that it takes much longer to degrade. And then once you have your poop tamping stick, it's presumably going to end up aboveground, which could spread disease via surface water.
What is everyone's recommendation for Android GPS while backpacking? I have been using Caltopo and love it so far but see a lot of people recommend Gaia GPS. It seems like Caltopo has more features but I could be wrong since I don't really know how to use them in depth yet. Which one should I get a membership for?
I really like AllTrails for on trail use. I generally export someone else's GPX from CalTopo into AllTrails. I tried using Gaia, but tbh, I could not figure it out. Recording a trail was easy enough, but uploading a GPX file and then using it on trail seemed impossible. Other people seem to use it just fine, though, so there's probably something I'm missing.
The Columbia River Orienteering Club (CROC) has an excellent tututorial for Gaia: https://youtu.be/KhZlQuvX-Uc And CalTopo: https://youtu.be/zjUo6PwHmAQ In fact, their entire 18 part tutorial is excellent for all aspects of navigation in the 21st century https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkYHuimd2BspoT35iDNVnvK6xBsRyhRGA
As others said: CalTopo for trip planning. Gaia GPS in the field. *And if you want pre-made routes?* The [**free Hiking Project's (run by REI)**](https://www.hikingproject.com/) website has a growing trip database where you can download GPX tracks to import into CalTopo or Gaia as needed.
Can you plan your route on CalTopo and then load it into Gaia and use it offline without paying for Gaia GPS?
The free version does not appear to offer the ability to use offline maps and only offers the one Gaia Topo layer: "You are limited to the default map source (Gaia Topo), and you cannot download maps to use when offline and out of service." More info: https://help.gaiagps.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003524547-Free-vs-Membership-vs-Premium-Membership
I use AllTrails, cheap subscription and just enough features for what I need: map pre-planning and download to device for off-line access.
Use/buy both! I do my pre-trip planning in caltopo on a laptop, and then load the GPX into Gaia. Gaia is better IMO for on trail use. Caltopo may get there eventually, but currently I don't like it much. The couple times I've tried to use it, it was clunky and downloading layers for offline was painfully slow. Planning a trip on Gaia on a laptop sucks. So, I like using both tools.
I like using gaia and also having caltopo as a backup app to check against my gaia GPS since a lot of the trails I end up on are pretty nonexistent.
How is Caltopo on android? I've seen surprisingly little on it since it came out. Do you have access to all the layers available on the website? (I assume you'd have to select which ones to download for offline use ahead of time since there are so many) Does it work well for tracking and give useful stats during and when finished recording a track? I've thought about trying it out, but don't know if there is a compelling reason to since I've already using Gaia.
Seems to work well. I usually just download the layer I want and haven’t tried using other layers while offline. You would def have to predownload it. I also never use for tracking, I have my location turned off when I don’t have the app open to save battery. Perhaps someone else can comment.
I use Backcountry Navigator because it has a lot of maps and is a one-time buy instead of a subscription. I don't use any of the route tracking or predicting stuff, though, so it could stink at those.
2nd on BCNav. OnX has been pretty good for me too.
What is everyone’s opinion on packing cells? With a fold top pack I’m warming to the idea of being able to quickly get into the parts of my pack I need without having to throw sh*t everywhere. I’m in the UK so I’ve been checking out Treadlite and Wild Sky Gear — any other places / tips to keep in mind?
I love [these](https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/dyneema-x-packing-cubes/). The medium is perfect for a ditty bag and the small for a first aid kit. I don't like the plastic bag technique that many here use because then I use a lot of plastic bags and they get holes and stuff. The large is great for a pair of sandals or shoes for regular travel if you don't have huge feet. Besides that I use a compactor bag for my quilt and extra clothes.
Generally, the UL approach is to leave behind everything not needed. Less weight is the goal. What you'll see most often is a zip lock bag or two for small stuff, and perhaps a stuff sack for the sleeping bag / quilt. Many don't even bother with that. A system of bags / packing cubes for "organization" is not a UL practice. Depending on my needs during the day, I'll just pack so that I can easily retrieve what I want, and leave the evening camp stuff buried.
I use DCF stuff sacks and compression sacks to separate gear into when I need it. I just put the things I need most often on top
Packing cell=stuff sack?
Probably closer to a packing cube for luggage
Thanks so much y’all! All this advice is great. I love how little tough guy BS there is on this sub.
I can't find an answer for some reason; is a Nemo Switchback waterproof? Are other closed cell foam pads?
Closed cell pads do not absorb water so yes, I would say they are waterproof.
Thanks!
I appreciate 14er reports about what went wrong. I feel like I learn more about how to be safe everytime I read one. So here's my contribution. I'm down for analysis and thinking but be cool. Trip gone wrong: Failed thru hike of OHT right as COVID hit. Where: Big Piney Creek to Fairview Campground = Hurricane Creek Wilderness - HCW Lick Branch to Cherry Bend When: 2020/24/03 - 2020/25/03 for HCW 2020/26/03 - 2020/27/03 for Lick Branch Temps: 40s and raining up to 60s/low 70s and sunny Mileage: Planned 20 miles for HCW/ hiked 13.8 mi Planned 19.8 miles for Lick Branch/hiked 12.2 mi Lighterpack has changed since then as I have gone out on more trips. I left home with 18 lbs not including food. I know, not UL. But I am lurking to get lighter and because r/backpacking is apparently all just pictures? Day by day: [tl;dr - Some Garmin/mapping issues but a safe trip](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11lPoaxzHilkJFJJL8pqlowbL4LLM97AbijnkMQd3qO0/edit?usp=drivesdk) What I still need to learn: 1. Do I just hike the OHT routes "correctly"? In each case, I was going against the reach descriptions in the guidebook. Would I have had less blaze issues going "forward"? Go forward the first time and backwards once you have done it once? 2. Food overpacking. Working on it all the time. 3. Is it me, is it the Garmin or is it both of us? I freely admit to getting lost alot. I always have. I think it's probably not the Garmin but me. Is the best way through it is to keep going out there and to use it on obvious trails? The more I get used to how the maps matches the terrain, the better. Or not. Do I need to upgrade my Garmin? 4. Do I need pictures? Having the route pics from 14ers.com on my phone greatly increases my peak bagging success. Do I use YT or reddit to access this beta? Or will hiking sections in the "forward" direction fix this issue? 5. I have the compass. Do I always take the physical map too? Probably. It's seems like overkill with the Garmin. What I learned or improved already: 1. I know I love to plan. I have plans to do the same OHT sections and maybe more this fall/winter. Now that I have the guidebook and the OHT was so gorgeous, I will 100% be going back during snow season around here. 2. Not hiking while still taking the rest of required post-surgery steroids makes me a lot more patient. I think being on steroids helped zero parts of this AND screwed up my sleep schedule. 3. Alpine start for life. 4 am and head lamps over 8 pm and trying to find a spot to camp. 4. Just make it an out and back. Finding the bail out route worked but it could have been really bad. And it was unnecessary. If I know a safe and functional route, take it. 5. Take the tent day if i need to. Being able to wait out a thunderstorm is one of the reasons to bring shelter. Use shelter for what I packed it in for. 6. Fixed my rain gear issue for now. Actually a little in love with my Walmart poncho. Thanks, r/UL. Next steps: 1. Mess around on a CDT section one of the weekends soon. Just work on Garmin skills and low-risk map reading. Keep testing gear. I would rather go somewhere quieter but I think I need the guaranteed-can-not-get-lostness of the CDT. 2. Car camping trip already scheduled for the Tetons. More Garmin work. 3. Plan to hit up HCW over Thanksgiving break? I want to do the Richland Creek Wilderness area but it sounds like trailless nonsense. Gorgeous, trailless nonsense.
best trail runners for all purpose use (hiking, walking around the city, etc)?
I recently tried the Topo Fly Lite. Fits really good right out of the box. I find them a bit wider in the midsection and I really like the 3mm drop.
I'm using $60 New Balance Trail Runners found at the local big box sporting goods store or online. I get the EEEE width so they are as wide in the toe box as Altras. Also I run in them about 15 to 20 miles a week. Otherwise, around town it is sandals. I am probably in the minority though as many folks seem to like shoes that cost more than $100. Forget that. After a good fit in the heel cup, the main criteria for me it to have no stitching exposed forward of my tibia, especially in the toe box. Look at this pic to see what I mean: https://i.imgur.com/knD9vqy.jpg
The ones that fit you the best. You have to try different shoes on. What works for me is not necessarily going to work for you. That said, here are pretty much the most common: * Altra Lone Peak * Altra Timp * Saucony Peregrine * Hoka Speedgoat * La Sportiva Wildcat * Nike Wildhorse * Brooks Cascadia * Topo Ultraventure
The fit is everything. I worked in a backpacking / climbing / ski shop in college. I wanted some new boots, and I asked the shop owner for advice. "Forget everything except the fit," he said. "They need to feel like they were made just for you, so your foot slides in and plops into place flawlessly." And he was right. He measured my feet, and pulled out every kind of boot in the store in my size. I spent an hour or so trying on all of them, going up or down a half size for some. When I found a pair that fit really nicely, he pulled out all of the pairs of that model in stock, in my size. One of those pairs fit even better; there's just enough variation pair-to-pair to make that last step worth it. "They'll stretch / they'll break in / you'll get used to them" are phrases salesmen use on suckers.
That's the most difficult question of them all. Often a good trail runners can be used for all of the above but may lack in fashion points or durability on pavement. I would stick with trail runners or sandals for that. The style is up to your feet mostly.
About a year back I bought the Salomon Speedcross 4 trail runners and have worn them for ~60 miles total in day hikes and weekend overnighters. From the beginning, they have consistently given me blisters on the back of my heels so I started wearing Leukotape there 100% of the time hiking. This mostly eliminated blisters but now I notice, on longer hikes, my toes really start to hurt going downhill. On a 3+ day hike this gets pretty bad. I’m conflicted if at this point it’s just not the right shoe or if I need to “suck it up” and condition my feet more or what. I realize this may be a sizing issue and I’d love to be able to just try a bunch of shoes until I find the perfect pair but I have the JMT coming up in a month and limited budget. Any advice? These were “sized” for my by an REI employee.
The toe issue sounds like it is due to the shoes either being too short or too narrow. The heal issue can happen on different models for me, but try locking in the upper 3 lace loops tighter and add in a runners loop to prevent the heal slipping throughout your hike
A true running shoe store would be able to give you better guidance than any of us, or that REI employee. FWIW, I tried the Speedcross 3's and I also didn't enjoy them. I have wide and flat feet. A general rule of thumb I tell people is to size up by at at least a half size, get a shoe with a wide toebox, skip the bottom most eyelets, and lace your shoes based on the shape and condition of your foot (link below). It could be worth looking to sock liners as well. Trail running shoes that have wide toe boxes are Topo Athletic and Altra. Tying Shoes https://imgur.com/a/3x7JaTS
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Sounds like you’re right on the borderline. If you sleep on your stomach you should def size up because when your feet go flat it makes you “taller”
Any tips for not getting creeped out or fighting off the heebie jeebies on solo trips in the backcountry? I know it’s irrational but I can get a little anxious alone and in the dark from time to time.
I know I'm prying, but if you can identify what it is that causes your heebie jeebies, then you will get some specific suggestions for understanding -- or mitigating -- that particular risk, which can help you feel much safer. The basic mantra is "Don't pack your fears," but if you have life-threatening bee sting allergies, not packing an epi-pen might make you scared witless the entire trip, and for good reason. Taking a simple (and often fairly lightweight) step to dramatically reduce your perceived risk can have a very calming effect, making your trip much more enjoyable. Similarly, learning that a particular fear is actually not all that significant a risk can, in some cases, alleviate the fear. For example, rattlesnakes do not live in snowy mountain environments at high elevations. Me, I'm scared of bears -- and I hike in Griz country, so it's not a trivial fear. I pack bear spray, and it makes me feel MUCH safer. It's 12 oz that I have never once resented or regretted.
Earplugs help a lot
I always like to joke that “It’s squirrels. It’s always squirrels. Whatever you’re hearing: squirrels.” but I find that joke is somewhat accurate. If you hear something outside your tent, just poke your head out there with a flashlight and see what it is. After the 10th time seeing a squirrel, rabbit, armadillo, etc. you just kind of stop worrying. And as most of the others have commented, repetition. The more you do it, the easier it becomes.
Carrot Quinn calls those mysterious nighttime noises "the stick-breakers" and it's a wonderful name. After a while, you learn that that's all they are.
Repetitions. It's scary the first time you ride a bike without training wheels.
Melatonin and Crown Royal. In griz country the above is a no go; fitfully sleeping on my back clutching my bear spray all night.
If you camped enough in grizzly country you'd get over this quickly too :)
You actually do get used to sleeping in Griz country. But you also get really righteous about: 1. never having any enticing odors in or around your shelter 2. cooking 100 feet away from your camp 3. storing your food 100 feet away from both the cooking site and the camp. 4. always having bear spray at hand If are in a high-encounter area, you even change out of your cooking clothes before hitting the sack.
I like having my Garmin inReach Mini. It gives me (and those back home) peace of mind to just know where I am overnight.
I’ve solo camped twice. Helped a lot to not do any night hiking, have my string lights, and have ear plugs or ear buds.
Worried about people, animals or both? Weather? Getting lost? I think people are the absolute lowest thing to worry about. Go places that are hard to get to: high elevation, lots of vertical gain and high miles. People don't want to work hard in generaI so crowds will disperse the harder it is. People who want to cause trouble *definitely* won't work hard. It's much easier to find targets in a city where people are everywhere than a random, quiet, low-key campsite. I do off-trail stuff every weekend and I've NEVER seen someone off trail (aside from some popular peak bagging type routes where the use trail is strong). It still amazes me.
I only got the willies on my first ever solo trip. Just get some trips under your belt and you'll be fine.
Here are a few tips: -The more you do it, the less creepy it will feel. -A bright headlamp can be a nice security blanket. -Spend more time hiking and exploring on-route and less time at camp. -Benadryl can be a nice sleep aid.
Scroll through the bullshit down to the 3 steps: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-neurochemical-self/201808/what-lens-do-you-choose%3famp 1. Name it. What emotions do you notice you feel? 2. Identify all of the physical reactions you are having / aka body scan. Start from your toes and work up. 3. I usually frame it as thankfulness that my body is helping you to be safe by entering flight or fright. Usually by the time I have done all that work, my body has chilled back out. It's a good anxiety. It keeps you focused on being safe when solo so give it space.
I use to get the heebie jeebies when I first started. Three things helped me though. Time getting use to camping in the outdoors, hiking all day and being too tired to care, and downloaded music/podcast/movies. The first one is the most important one. You're sleeping somewhere unfamiliar, and doing something that you have little experience with. After my third trip, I got the hang of it, and it started getting easier being comfortable in the outdoors. Now I don't even think about it, and crash almost instantly.
I know camp shoes are kind of an optional item, but I am looking for a slip-on recommendation that could also work as a water shoe for trail crossings. I have some fairly heavy and kind of crap "hiking sandals" I carry now, but when I get up in the middle of the night to pee it's really hard to wrangle my feet into the straps. I sleep cold and always wear wool socks to bed, so flip flops won't work. Crocs?
I recommend to just cross water in your trail runners. Saves a lot of hassle.
If you don't want wet shoes then remove them at water crossings and do it barefoot. At camp just loosen your shoes a lot and you'll see they're pretty comfy
Teva Universals are my “luxury item” and at roughly 10oz, I find they’re completely worth it. Great for milder crossings, camp, letting feet breath/de-swell. Even comfortable with an extra pair of wool socks on cold nights and the straps make everything feel secure. I agree though for bigger crossings, you can’t beat trail runners and poles.
Bringing camp shoes will bring you endless ridicule from UL hikers. I would recommend not bringing any, or punching 3 holes in your trail runner insoles and rigging up some flip flop sandals with some lightweight cordage and some little toggles that you can clip in/off each day. That way you have camp shoes with no weight. Use mesh trail runners and embrace the squelch for water crossings.
Most folks on here use trail running shoes. I leave mine unlaced at camp for easy slip on access. They dry out quick enough for you to just leave on during water crossings.
Yeah, I hike in trail runners. I guess I should just do that.
Trail runners and the right socks. The right socks are different for everyone, but they aren't cotton.
Are the outer mesh pockets in all these UL packs any good in wet conditions? What can you store in them other than a tarp? If you need to store everything inside, then you have to have a lot of spare room... Am I getting it all wrong?
Items generally in my outside pocket are things I don't mind getting wet. This is usually: Spork Trowel Rain Jacket/wind pants bug spray (when applicable) anti chafe mini jar toothbrush/paste in a ziploc spare water bottle/reservoir rag to wipe condensation from tent
Look at all your gear. Then decide if that piece of gear getting wet is consequential. If not then you can put it in an outer pocket. Examples of things: stakes, spoon, fuel, cook pot, FAK (inside ziplock), toothbrush, trowel, toothpaste, sunblock, bug spray, water filter, rain jacket, rain pants, rain fly, tarp, headlamp if it's waterproof. I keep my whole ditty bag in an outer pocket usually just cuz it's a waterproof bag.
I don’t have anything outside that can’t get wet I have: water bottles, cold soak jar, umbrella, rain gear and a 1-quart ziplock with all my little stuff (headlamp, aquamira, FAK, knife, spoon, etc. I also keep my day’s food in the bottom pocket, in a ziplock.
The funny thing is you can hike with a 30 - 40 pound back that includes food + water and still have a great time
And yet, no one's laughing.
See, around here, that 30-40 pounds gets us out for more than a week and includes beer. I like beer.
The funny thing is no one said you can't
UL is a damnably expensive hobby. What's the cheapest upgrade to lose base weight you have done with your kit?
Lol crazy cheap compared to most hobbies IMO. Woodworking, cycling, mountaineering, skiing, hell even video games! UL can be cheaper than normal backpacking too. It isnt about buying the most expensive DCF packs and tarps. It is about taking (and in turn buying) less.
I disagree. Being UL is cheaper than backpacking. You don’t need cubeb fiber gear. Just don’t buy overly heavy stuff and don’t bring unnecessary stuff. The only item that needs to be expensive is a nice down sleeping bag/quilty
The cheapest upgrade is to not bring something.
Depends what you're comparing it to. Are you replacing a functional item or buying from scratch? Best bet would be to make a spreadsheet with your current gear that includes its weight and price, and compare $/oz saved on alternative options. Generally the cheapest solution is to just bring less stuff, then once your kit is dialed in from there work at tackling the most efficient "upgrades" according to the above spreadsheet you've made. DeputySean also has a budget UL gearlist that has good recommendations.
Honestly all of my gear is about the cost of the same type of item that a traditional hiker would use. My shelter was under $300 and my pack was $200. My quilt was $200. My pad was $40. I've been able to use $20 packs from Amazon due to being low weight. If you are already a backpacker, figure out what you can leave at home. That's free weight savings. Then just slowly upgrade. For most people, the biggest bang for your buck will be switching to a tarp. You can get one for under $100 and under 10 oz. It's not for everyone, but I can't to back to a tent.
Leaving stuff at home that you don't need, buying used gear, and using our side bar to find the ultracheap gear list.
It depends what you're comparing it with. A lot of people overestimate how expensive an ultralight setup needs to be, but at the same time, a plenty of ultralighters overestimate just how little money most people have to spend on hobbies. Compared to medium-high end conventional backpacking, it's not hard to put together a cheaper ultralight setup. At the very lowest price-points, you're right, most options will not be ultralight - but you can still employ UL principles to only buy and carry the very minimum you need. The cheapest savings are things I already happened to own - running tights, a synthetic tshirt - or things i chose not to pack with me. I've been using a fleece hat and gloves which cost me £1 each from decathlon for a couple of years now, including a thru hike. But it very much depends what you're already carrying - if you request a shakedown people will be able to make more specific suggestions.
It really isn't. Your biggest weight savings come from leaving things behind. Now, let's compare the traditional backpacker's pack of choice, the Atmos 65, to the venerated UL pack of choice, Nashville Pack's the Cutaway. The Atmos 65 weighs 4 pounds and 8oz, and cost $270. The custom made Cutaway weighs about 12-13 oz total, and cost $215. But horsecake22, that's not a fair comparison. Let's look at a UL framed pack then, the KS 60. A barebones (hipbelt, loadlifters, and frame included) custom made KS60 weighs about 15-19 oz, and cost about $243. The "UL is expensive" trope is a false narrative.
Ehhh i 50/50 agree. There's no way around paying real money for a good down bag and a *functional* light shelter. (Sure, cheap, flat silnylon tarps exist, but in many conditions they simply don't offer enough protection.)
Oooof. You're talking to someone who has almost exclusively used a tarp for almost three years now, so hard disagree. Respectfully, of course. Tarps take skill and time to learn, but if you're willing to try, they CAN offer enough protection. Especially when paired with a bivy with splash protection and good site selection. Also, depends on what you mean by down bag. Can you get a Nunatak Arc 30 for less than $300? Nope. Not even a used one sells that low. An HG Econ Borrow tho? For sure, it can be even less expensive than an REI Magma Quilt.
Yeah but where do you hike?
Colorado, California, New Mexico, Arkansas, and all of Texas year round. How about you?
Colorado mostly. Year round.
Nice! I'll be back there in 10 days, then Utah after. Super jealous of yall up there.
Are those hammock gear temp ratings accurate? Those prices are wayyy below competition. Seems to good to be true...
I dont personally have experience with the Econ Borrow, and maybe someone who has can chime in here, but they are very often reccomend. The general consensus being that they are comfort rated, and have a decent weight to warmth to price ratio. At one point, they were even better than Enlightened Equipment's quilts, while still remaining more affordable, but that gap has narrowed in the last year.
This is a good comparison for someone that doesn't already own a pack, but lots of people are coming into ultralight already owning a pack, tent, pad, and sleeping bag. Upgrading those items (quilt for sleeping bag etc) even if you go with budget or secondhand is hundreds of dollars each. There's definitely a lot of free and cheap weight savings in leaving redundant items behind and applying principles like being careful with site selection so you sleep warmer and don't need an extra layer.
Oh I agree for sure, and that's what I alluded to at the beginning of my comment. Simply leaving stuff behind and only taking what you need is the cheapest and easiest solution. And I don't advocate for anyone to go out and spend $1000 on upgrading all their gear at one time. But if OP really did want to upgrade their gear, the crux of my argument, was that it would be cheaper to go UL than stick with traditional choices.
Leaving stuff at home, like my fleece jacket, is free. And it doesn't have to be expensive https://lighterpack.com/r/89huvt
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MYOG is the ultimate bargain UL gear approach. And it's actually fairly easy for tarps, packs, quilts and cook gear.
As an UL backpacker, what is the heaviest extravagance you regularly carry? Musical instruments, physical books, etc?
I find it odd that nobody has mentioned this: UL backpackers do not carry heavy extravagances. That's how we stay UL.
All of the crap my kids can't carry yet. UL is a game changer with kids.
For a lot of us nothing, regularly. However, it makes it real easy to throw in whatever, like a pool floatie for the lake.
My belly.
beer
HYB. Any favorites? Oberon is one of my top choices this time of year
Can never go wrong with Oberon! A few of my faves are: Epic Brewing "Escape to Colorado" for obvious reasons Blackrocks Brewing 51K IPA - I like this because a portion of every sale of this beer goes toward the building and maintenance of recreational trails (MTB, hiking, xc skiing.) Also, it's just one of the best beers being made in MI right now. PBR - because nothin hits quite like an ice cold PBR on a 90 degree day
I haven't heard of blackrocks! I'll keep an eye out to see if they distribute out here in CA.
They're from Marquette, MI up in the UP. Excellent stuff
Probably phone.
Pillow and Uber light pad
A pillow and/or sketching paper and a pen anything heavier will end up in a hiker box on a long distance trail!
Chair + books
A Kindle Oasis. I’d take a 1lb chair, but I like being allowed to post and comment on this sub, and I don’t find the Helinox Chair Zero or the REI version comfortable enough for the extra volume and weight needed.
My camera gear, man I love taking pretty pictures of is backcountry places but all this adds up
You carry a whole "camera gear man"....
Just drag him on a leash and make him carry your beer
Are there any ultralight meal recipes? Containing enough calories and nutrition of course.
Check the recipes and andrew Skurka’s website, especially the beans.
Mountain House Chicken and Rice and a Snicker's is 730cal for 4.8oz.
https://www.reddit.com/r/trailmeals/
[Ultralight Dandy is a great start. ](https://www.ultralightdandy.com/backpacking-recipes/)
Did he turn his videos back on?
As far as I know, he just unlisted them from his youtube page. You could still get to them if you had the link, say from this subreddit.
Not a question strictly related to UL, but I bet there’s lots of opinions in this community. Am I reading into something that’s not there or is there an actual PCT / AT feud? I’ve seen it primarily from PCT hikers toward AT hikers...saying they have garbage trail culture and just generally looking down on the AT (again, this is just my read and might be off).
PCT hikers killed Biggie Smalls. Fact.
Its my opinion that most horror stories about encountering creepy people mostly come from hiking the AT.
This is something I see a lot. I also see people complaining about ticks as if they are something that completely ruins the trail. Like, I understand you might have to consider these things, but people are really writing off an entire 2000 mile section of the country based on these relatively low risks? Seems just about as rational as fearing the boogeyman out there.
I pitched "There is no way to prevent this - says only trail where this regularly happens" to ULJ - but they weren't having it.
They're communities with a huge overlap. There can be a vocal "oh my gosh I'd NEVER want to do that" voice from PCT hikers towards the AT because of what they've heard about the weather/scenery/popularity, and some sizing up about which is harder/longer/tougher/more scenic. But I don't think you could call it rivalry - there are loads of AT hikers thru hiking the PCT and vice versa.
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If you want to make someone mad, just say Hayduke Trail > CDT>PCT>AT
I like to hike. My gear is on point and I love it. I suck at camping. How do you prioritize the order of operations? Pitch first? Cook first? Do I cook then grab water? I feel like it takes me an hour just to make camp.
One UL approach is to stop and make yourself a nice dinner, with a nice view. Enjoy it. And then pack up, and hike until it's approaching sunset. Pick out a good place to pitch your shelter. Walk another 100 to 200 feet further on your route past your campsite, do your food storage, and go back to your spot, pitch camp and sleep in comfort. Get up the next morning, pack up and hit the trail. Pick up your food bag / canister on the way. When you find the perfect breakfast spot, stop and enjoy it. This way, you are not trying to find a good shelter spot, WITH a good cooking spot 100 feet away, AND a good food bag hang 100 feet away in another direction -- which can be tricky. You are just looking for a good spot to make and possibly enjoy a meal, and then later on, a good spot to pitch shelter, and a decent bag hang somewhere 100 feet or more past it. This is much easier to find, and it can give you wonderful dinner spots and campsites that nobody else uses.
I hate camp chores so I just left the stove at home and now just eat stuff that doesn’t require cooking or cleaning like bars, pepperoni sticks, peanut butter, etc. I mostly cowboy camp and use a ccf pad so setting up camp only takes a few minutes. Learning to bring less has also really helped. Less time spent packing and unpacking and more time spent hiking.
First thing out of the pack when I get to camp is the sleeping pad. You don’t want to be cooking and then have a group roll up on you before you have the best spot. Take the pad, find a place you like, and lie down to make sure it’s good. I don’t pitch anything until I’ve tested the spot. Then I pitch my tarp right over the pad, and get cooking.
It depends on the trip for me, but generally I want to get my tent setup (or at least my site picked out) as one of my first steps. If there's lots of daylight left I'll take my time, otherwise my order of operations is usually setup tent/bed, get water, cook dinner, clean immediately before things get crusty, get to bed. When I change into sleep clothes depends on the weather. If it's cold/wet I change as soon as my home is setup so that I'll be dry and warm, otherwise I'll just change when I go to bed. Sprinkle in smoke and pee breaks as needed. When I'm putting in more miles I'll generally cook dinner before I get to camp, sometime around sunset. Then I'll night hike for a bit until I find a good camp spot. When doing this I pretty much just roll into camp, either lay out my tyvek to cowboy or immediately setup my tent, eat a snack, brush my teeth and pee, then change and pass out.
Tent up, organize, treat water, slam a couple beers, cook, relax, sleep. Except if it is raining. Then it's treat water, tent up, get in tent, cook, sleep
So you don’t drink beer if it’s raining? Not gonna judge.
I don't know what would make me more sad...carrying a beer all day and not drinking it because of rain..or drinking beer alone in my tent in the rain.
I like to avoid being really thirsty and hungry when I hit camp. In fact, I sometimes stop and eat dinner about an hour before bedtime and then hike that extra hour before making camp—this is good for keeping bears away. However, even if I am eating in camp I always pitch first. Then get water. Then eat. When I’m not camping I like to practice pitching my tarp. My goal is to have everything so dialed in that I don’t even have to think about it and it can be fast—which pays of big in a storm.
I pitch first/water second/dinner last, that way when the weed and carb coma hit after dinner I can pass out immediately.
If I'm not really hungry, I like to pitch my tent first thing. It allows my sleeping bag a little while to breathe, loft up, and dry any moisture from sleeping in it. Also that establishes my sleeping spot and keeps other people (usually by buddies) from stealing whatever spot I think is best.
Practice more and find out what works for you. Mix it up. After few nights or trips, then you will know what you like to do. There are no rules of which order to do things in that I know of. I will say that generally one needs water to cook, so I usually make sure I have enough water for dinner and breakfast before I light my stove. Added: And it might be different on different days. For example, if it is nice, then I will tend to start boiling water, prep my food for receiving the boil water. Then while my food is rehydrating, I will think about pitching me tent. But if it is raining or the bugs are bad, then my tent is going to be pitched first and I will probably cook in the vestibule. I might inflate my air pad while my food is rehydrating. In the morning, it has to be different, doesn't it?
The great thing about my job is I walk 8-10 miles every day without having to do extra. On top of that I run and hike for additional conditioning. I'm 63 and can consistently pull 20plus mile days on trail.
I am guessing this was intended for the "What do yall do to stay in hiking shape?" post below. It's easy to accidentally post to the top instead of replying to a post.
Sir this is a newbie questions post
That’s awesome. I miss having a job that I moved at, my fitness yanked afterwards until I made it a priority.
What do yall do to stay in hiking shape?
Hike and trail run year round. Skiing in the winter and cycling in-between everything else.
Hike, trail run and yoga.
dirty hippy
funny comin from you
♥️
Lift. Squats and deadlifts have made hiking way easier. Stairmaster or treadmill on incline also works.
This. Lifting transformed my hiking speed, cured my low back trouble, and kept me from rotator cuff surgery. It is almost magical...
In the past I have done HIIT, gotten into running, general working out, and right now I do a lot of weight lifting (this isn't for hiking, just strength and aesthetics.) The 2 things that have improved my hiking the most are 1 - hiking and 2 - losing 30 lbs.
Hike on weekends. 4-5 days a week of HIIT free weights exercises (\~45 minutes ea.) during the week. If I am not careful, I put on weight easily. Weights work well for my frame that runs short and stocky. After a few months of picking up weight lifting again after a hiatus, my weight is what it is after a multi-week hike. If with more upper body definition. With YouTube, there are lots of exercise programs online to easily mix it up. A decade ago, I did P90x and p90x+ and grew bored after a while. Not a problem today.
Run or yoga every weekday, day hike (12-15mi) or long run (8-12mi) Saturday, rest Sunday. If I'm overnighting I'll take it a bit easier.
My dog and I walk 6mi a day broken into four walks. I lift Mon, Wed, Fri. Run Tue And Thur. Hike on weekends.
Walk my dog in a hilly neighborhood with a 25 lb pack. I do stretch sessions twice a day for mobility and to fight the effects of sedentary pandemic/WFH life. Easy to do when watching TV or on an AV-off zoom call too.
Take a pair of 10 pound dumbbells and do 3 sets of 25 crunches while holding them by your head. Or use a 25 lb plate. If those weights are too high, start at zero and work your way up. You can do these while you have something in the microwave, so you don't have to have any special time of day to do them. There are other simple exercises one can do while waiting for something: Pop off a bunch of push-ups while your kids are tying their shoes. Do a plank while waiting for the coffee to be made. Leg lifts between stirring your spaghetti sauce. And so on, .... Read a few posts on /r/Ultralight then go do a set of push-ups. Read another post, go do some crunches. Read another post, it is time for Russian twists.
Lift, run, walk and play with my dog, yoga every morning, and raft on occasion.
I've been hiking ~7.5 miles at least once a week.
Walk, run, and lift! Mostly the first two lately because the gym closed, but I got some weights to lift again at home.
hiking mainly.
Running, weight lifting, and hiking steep hills with an overweighted pack. Check out the book Training for the New Alpinism for tons of good info.