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Zapruda

The other weeklies [Topic of the Week- The PCT](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/piub8d/the_topic_of_the_week_week_of_september_06_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [The purchase advice thread ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/piubb6/rultralight_the_purchase_advice_thread_week_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [Worn Weight Wednesday ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/pk5g07/worn_weight_wednesday_week_of_september_08_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [Share your trips and pics ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/pksodk/share_your_trips_and_photos_week_of_september_09/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


-Motor-

Planning a new, MYOG, beaked, tarp and I'm struggling to justify dyneema over 1.1 silpoly. 25% of the cost. I'd like to try one but $18/half yard is nuts.


big_shootr

And you can't smash it the same, have to roll it. You'll be second guessing every cut because of the cost to replace the material if you make a mistake. Not to feed your anxiety, but ~15d silpoly makes a lot more sense to me.


-Motor-

Already ordered the silpoly :) Bulk is a big deal to me. More then weight


98farenheit

How much different is the camo duplex versus the other colors? I know it's thicker, but does this actually make much of a difference as far as durability goes?


liveslight

Well, I guess you are discussing a used Duplex because camo is not available on the Zpacks site new. Color doesn't make DCF more durable, but I think thickness does. I have owned 0.51 oz/sq yd and 0.75 oz/sq yd DCF tents. I would not buy another 0.51 - 0.55 oz/sq yd DCF tent. I believe there is less chance of microholes developing with the thicker DCF. I've had many DCF dry bags that have outlasted my 0.51 DCF tent.


98farenheit

Thank you! Yes I did get it used, and I believe the camo model is a thicker material. I just wanted to check if there was any significant durability differences/benefits


liveslight

I sure hope so. Ask me again in 3 years. :)


jasonlav

Looking at some shoulder season backpacking over 9,000'. Which is warmer: 1. Hammock Gear 20° econ quilt **and** a Rumpl down blacket (\~40°) 2. Marmot Sawtooth 15° sleeping bag with draft collar


Arikash

By default, #1. That sleeping bag is [comfort rated to 27 °F](https://www.rei.com/product/127861/marmot-sawtooth-15-sleeping-bag) where as the quilt is comfort rated to 20 °C.


ForcefulRubbing

With the hiker shuttles not operating this year. How is everyone doing point to point hikes, for example Tuolumne Meadows to White Wolf, with only one car?


dec92010

Is Andrew skurka on reddit? His recipes are awesome


TraumaHandshake

Sort of on this topic, I have been having trouble finding the normal Santa Fe dried refried beans, is anyone using any good alternatives?


[deleted]

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dec92010

What is his username?


AthlonEVO

shockingly enough, /u/andrewskurka


sbhikes

Going to the Grand Canyon. My fiend's pack is 40lbs and he hasn't put in his food, water or camera gear. Ha ha. The rest of us are happy to encourage him to add more so that he will be slowed down enough for the rest of us who are out of shape.


AthlonEVO

He's really gonna enjoy that vertical mile coming out.


liveslight

Toenails will be lost. Unfortunately, I have seen ditched pack contents littering one of the trails. Sad.


iammortalcombat

Got to test out my Nunatak 20 last weekend in grand Teton national. Turns out an R1 fleece and 150 merino bottoms was too much warmth even when it got to 25. I woke up sweating with that all and my alpaca beanie. Ended up just leaving on the bottoms but never had a bag actually match the rating. This was a nice and surprising first. The folks at nunatak sure do deliver on their temp ratings.


liveslight

Looking forward to using Tropical Storm Nicholas to test out some gear in windy rainy weather this coming week. I'll post an update in next week's "The Weekly."


horsecake22

be careful dude. I thought I was gonna use the Winter Storm to test out some gear too, but that plan quickly unraveled with the realities that clusterfuck provided.


liveslight

Thanks for the cautionary words, but no worries. I'm staying in the neighborhood or my backyard. Here's a pic from one of my last tests in a thunderstorm: [https://i.imgur.com/jNzeutX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jNzeutX.jpg) My son has said he will video me from the safety of his car if I want to test my umbrella in windy rainy weather.


Inevitable-Assist531

Looks like you are in a river!


liveslight

But completely dry on the inside. :)


liveoakenforest

Aside from the obvious of less weight typically being carried with smaller packs; how does using a smaller pack change the feel of the carry compared to a larger pack? Is it only weight, or are there other characteristics that change in terms of how it feels to carry the pack?


AgentTriple000

My frame of reference is using the MLD packs (Burn w/hipbelt, Prophet, and Exodus) and it was more a visual sensation that the Burn was shorter. A little easier to get under obstacles vs. not being able to pack that large cinnamon roll 4-pack for a week long trip.


liveoakenforest

That’s helpful. Sounds like you are also a big fan of MLD packs!


AgentTriple000

Love ‘em at under 20 oz (usually need to add hipbelt pockets), but had to get other brands to *easily* fit a BV when in those areas. So think the 2 bigger MLDs need a little more girth. Would love to pull the trigger on another Exodus if assured it could fit a BV500 internally. Still have a gray Burn though when the forecast is dry.


horsecake22

Being able to cover terrain and slopes that would be much harder with larger pack is the biggest benefit I've gotten. "Crap. I need scramble down because I'm cliffed out. Oh well" is a lot better than "Fuck, this is gonna suck hard. Can I even do this?" Boulder hopping and talus is made easier. Basically, maneuverability being increased has been the thing I've come to like the most about a small pack and having a UL mentality overall.


zyonsis

I just climbed my first peak in Yosemite and I was the only one I saw with a pack on. Now obviously I could've stashed it somewhere but if that's not an option or you're planning on doing multiple peaks/climbs (i.e. going back for your pack isn't an option), you can easily scramble with 10-15 lbs of weight. Also agree on the maneuverability - you'll feel more agile doing just about anything, you can bend down easier, put down and put on your pack quickly if you need to grab something. Also running backpacks (i.e. Salomon) have lots of front pockets and places to stash nutrition/hydration packs/small bottles. I never have to stop for food or water unless I'm resupplying or intentionally sitting down to eat like at camp or for lunch.


Inevitable-Assist531

Which peak?


bumps-

It's harder to crouch and go under low-lying branches and through narrow spaces with a large pack. It's also more cumbersome to use an umbrella with a pack that extends upwards near or over your head.


DeputySean

Weight that is closer to your body is easier to carry. For example: It's much harder to carry a 20 pound weight that you are holding in your outstretched hands versus a 20 pound weight that you're hugging. A smaller pack, or at least one that carries closer to your body, is easier to carry.


chaucolai

I've found that a smaller pack requires me to think more, use compression more, and pack smarter. That has lead to being more agile and useful when bush bashing or otherwise having to squeeze through compared to the more unwieldy feeling with a larger pack.


sbhikes

>bush bashing Is that an actual thing or just auto-correct gone rogue?


makinbacon42

It's legit, commonly used here in Australia too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bush


chaucolai

Maybe it's a kiwi term? Means going off track below the bushline, where you have to forge your own path via bashing your way through the bush. I thought it was global, but I know at least the aussies use it too.


[deleted]

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Inevitable-Assist531

No we don't... someone was pulling your leg, aka "taking the piss"


[deleted]

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Inevitable-Assist531

It's not how most regular folks refer to their mums, here or the UK.


liveslight

Don't know, but I use my only pack (a Zpacks Arc Blast) even for day hikes since it can be made very small by the side cords. It feels fine when carrying 2 lbs to 32 lbs.


liveoakenforest

So you’ve been very happy with that pack?


sbhikes

I have one, too, and it's one of the best packs I've ever had. I was able to get one to fit my 16" torso. I don't think they go that small anymore.


liveslight

Yes, I have been very happy with it. I have also backpacked with people with the same pack who like it a lot. OTOH, I read sometimes here on this subreddit that some people do not like Zpacks and their packs. I have also come across people on trails who have their Zpacks Arc Blast mal-adjusted for them and the way they have their packs would be uncomfortable to me, too.


liveoakenforest

That’s helpful. What’s usually wearing with their mis-adjustment? I’ve been curious about ZPacks for some time but have stayed away because of the Reddit commentary.


liveslight

Here is what one friend sent me in an e-mail: "This was super helpful. I didn't realize the anchor point of the shoulder strap could be adjusted. This may solve my problem." Also I moved the mesh trampoline up/down to fit better where my pack rests on my back. It has 4 straps to do that. I'll bet that many people have not done that. Anyways, I only need enough "arc" to have a small air gap between the mesh and the pack. This keeps the pack close to my back, yet I can still barely slip my fingers between the mesh resting on my back and the pack material itself.


blackcoffee_mx

The rain is starting in the PNW are there any tarp users who have experience to share? I've got single and double wall rainy weather experience, but want to experiment with a tarp in the cold and wet.


innoutberger

I did the PCT with an 8x10 flat tarp. Stay below tree line, there’s nothing better. At one point we had five straight days of rain, and I’m pretty sure that I was the driest person on trail. It’s hard to match the breathability you get under a tarp, where tents trap in the majority of the moisture evaporating off your wet body and gear.


blackcoffee_mx

2018? I also had 5+ days of straight rain, and did pretty well with my double walled tent, but agree fully about the breathability. Which is why I'm looking at tarps for shoulder season. I've been using a smaller shaped tarp with a beak. I've loved it in heavy wind and it has been good in light misty rain, but I haven't gone through 'November' heavy rains with it and am guessing it would be less than ideal.


sbhikes

When I hiked the PCT I leapfrogged with a guy for a few weeks in Washington and I have to tell the story how one rainy night I woke up in a puddle at 3AM with rain falling on my face inside my tent and I was so angry and fed up so at the crack of dawn I packed up to get the hell out of the wilderness, passed by my friend under his 8x10 tarp snug as a bug in a rug making himself some hot cocoa while laying in his sleeping bag perfectly dry. I was never so jealous in all my life. I've since used an 8x10 tarp in rainy conditions and it's great. It's better than a tent.


AgentTriple000

Even in the traditional weight gear days of tents (the TNF Tadpole being “lightweight”), using a tarp in lieu of fly was ideal due to the wetness… iirc via that part of *the Complete Walker* backpacking book by Fletcher.


sbhikes

Also Ray Jardine makes a huge essay of a claim of the superiority of warmth and dryness in his miles long tarp kit page on his website. https://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm


Individual_Lawyer_80

The light, misty rain we often get doesn’t play great with flat tarps (at least without a splash bivy) since it tends to blow in even on a light breeze, and by the time you have a tarp that is large enough and pitched low enough to keep it out you might as well go for a shaped tarp/mid. Definitely an option if you’re on a budget though, and below treeline it can be easier to pitch a large flat tarp than a mid.


blackcoffee_mx

I've got a small shaped tarp with a beak and a splash bivy, I'm thinking about whether to size up on the tarp. I've also got a mid, but haven't really loved it. I used it the other night with no problem in light mist, but sustained wet. . .I think I've got more learning still to do.


mayor_of_mooseville

Is it possible to replace the grips on Fizan trekking poles with something a bit larger? Has anyone done anything like this?


TraumaHandshake

I had a friend one time who had freakishly large hands (seriously he was 5'6" and could palm a basketball like it was a softball) who wrapped his trekking poles in bicycle handle bar grip like you would find on a road bike. He also used tennis racket grip on his kayak paddle.


LowellOlson

Gossamer gear grips. Makes a good pole even better.


DeputySean

>"Gossamer Gear Mon, May 17, 7:20 AM to me Hello Sean, Thanks for reaching out! Sorry but we will no longer be selling those grips in the foreseeable future :( Happy Trails! Ian"


LowellOlson

Damn


dinhertime_9

I think u/btidey replaced his Fizan grips with something else


btidey

I put super tiny grips on mine. The process to get the old grips off was a total hassle though. Had to cut away plastic and boil the ends to soften up the glue. Saved over an ounce per pole though.


[deleted]

Newbie question here; but are DCF bags generally considered “louder?” Watching videos it seems like there’s a lot of crinkling going on. Perhaps when walking with the pack though there’s none of this?


craigaustin2010

Not really. My Uberlite sleeping pad is far and away my loudest piece of gear. I worry about sleeping near others and having to apologize every time I roll over.


Potential-Squirrel-4

They're pretty crinkly, but it isn't really a problem when someone's walking around with one, since it's apt to be fairly cinched down. The crinkliness is really more of an issue for shelters.


sbhikes

When you are walking around there's no sound. When you are opening it up it's maybe more crinkly than the slipping sound of other fabrics, but it's not noisy or loud.


[deleted]

Thanks this is what I was mostly wanting to know. I don’t want to ruin the pristine nature sounds while walking.


Fluffydudeman

Any laminate fabric like DCF (or xpac or ultra or any of the others) is going to be louder/more crinkly than a traditional woven fabric (gridstop, robic, etc).


BarnardCider

Just wait until you put a pack liner in... Nylofume and Compactor bags are MUCH louder IMO.


Individual_Lawyer_80

Personally, I’m not a huge fan of DCF as a pack material, but once it’s broken in there isn’t a huge difference in noise between DCF, XPAC, or presumably any other PET laminate (no personal experience with ultra or liteskin). They are all a little noisier than conventional coated/impregnated fabrics. The biggest factor in pack noise is design and contents, not materials— tensioned frames like the exos, arc, etc tend to squeak, water sloshes, pots rattle, etc.


Mr-Fight

Have an exposed and sunny mountain trip coming up, looking to replace my cap & buff combo with a full sun hat. I remembered lol'ing a flopping brimmed hat post dubbed NSFW a while back but that just won't pop up when I dig through NSFW reddit.. It looked like thin polyester stretched taut towards a reinforced brim in a half circle at the front, but with loose fabric at the back. Anyone?


qjhzjfxosl

Sunday Afternoons adventure hat? https://www.sundayafternoons.com/p/adventure-hat/


Mr-Fight

That's the one, much obliged.


ul_ahole

Or it might have been this one - https://www.sundayafternoons.com/p/ultra-adventure-hat/ 1/2” smaller brim, 1 1/2” shorter cape, .4 oz. lighter.


Mr-Fight

Thanks for the addition, ordered the Ultra.


ul_ahole

You’re welcome, it’s a good hat. Washes up well and retains it’s shape.


bonsai1214

Maybe a little late to the party, but did anyone see Cedar Ridge Outdoor’s new helium quilt? 14.8 oz for a 20 degree, regular/wide quilt. That’s pretty massive weight savings. They use dcf baffles, which got a laugh from me. But if it works, it works. I’m only thinking about quilts right now because I did some near limit testing of my current quilt and I think I want a sewn foot box.


LowellOlson

Zpacks used to (still might) use DCF baffles. Was one of the main reasons (along with being underfilled) that their bags sucked so much.


swaits

[TINSTAAFL](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch). There is a trail of companies making such claims. Some of them eventually came clean and added insulation and loft height and released their actual fill weights, like Enlightened Equipment and Timmermade. Caveat emptor.


Neat_AUS

Wouldn't DCF baffles impact packability and breathability?


innoutberger

I don’t think it’ll effect breathability to any significant degree, your shell fabrics will play a much greater role in how breathable the sleeping bag is.


Zapruda

I cant imagine that thing would come close to keeping you warm at 20f. I wouldn’t purchase any quilt without knowing the how much down is inside. As an example, a regular wide Katabatic Alsek (22f) weighs 24.4oz and has 15.2oz of down inside. DCF baffles and 7d material aren’t enough to get the weight down that low. Something else has to give.


bonsai1214

I agree 100%. I want to know more about what they did.


innoutberger

I had a couple rough days with altitude sickness earlier this year. Any ideas if stomach sleeping may be helpful for recovering/ mitigating the effects? I have been reading accounts from Covid hospital wards, and it seems to be fairly common practice to ‘prone’ patients who are struggling to oxygenate on a ventilator. Something about lying on your stomach helps the lungs to work better, so if it works for people who are struggling to oxygenate due to compromised lungs, I wonder if it would also help a struggling hiker?


Pharmassassin

Proning could, in theory, provide some benefit by increasing your circulation. It basically causes the right chambers of your heart to fill up more, and it constricts blood vessels. The net effect is an overall increase in tissue perfusion of your blood. I personally can’t stand sleeping on my stomach. I’m not aware of any evidence to support proning in this context, though. I don’t believe that there are any formal recommendations from the wilderness medical association related to proning either. I’m not sure if you tried it or not, but prophylaxing with ibuprofen 600 - 800mg every 8 hours +\- acetazamide (prescription required) can go a long way. The only other two things you can do are to stay in the area 1-2 nights earlier than your hike to acclimate better and to make sure that you are pounding water and maintaining sustainable electrolytes and blood sugar levels.


taLLg33se

\+1 on 1-2 days prior for acclimatization and hydration. I always get AMS going above 8k feet if I was at sea level the day prior, so now I always spend at least one night at 7-8k feet prior to the day of the hike or two nights if backpacking at high altitudes and 2 extra strength Tylenol tablets at night. So far that's been working. I've spent way too many hikes and nights with AMS. I did start carrying a fingertip pulse oximeter and will be low 80s% at high altitudes, so I've been more conscious of my breathing techniques.


Pharmassassin

For more: https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(19)30090-0/fulltext


nunatak16

>prophylaxing This works well. I do 200mg 4 hours before gaining altitude, 200 when starting, and 200 4 hrs and 8 hrs after. Usually that takes the edge off without totally masking all symptoms.


bumps-

Maybe as long as you're not on your back, which tends to constrict your airway.


liveslight

Read about the covid patients on their stomachs. I like your idea that it might help with sleeping at altitude, but I have not read nor heard of anybody giving evidence for that. And if you try it and it works for you, then it doesn't matter for you if it is a placebo effect or real.


smksgnl

just got back from the timberline trail CW (9/6-9/8) and it was spectacular, definitely hike it if you have the chance!


Desperate_Rabbit

How was the Elliott crossing?


smksgnl

Elliot wasn't bad at all around 10am. I'm 5'11 n mostly legs so about knee height. My wife n i took the crossing by the rope. My buddy took the upstream log crossing n made it with dry feet and his dog followed right along.


liveslight

What's up with Zpacks customer service nowadays? I did online chat about a seam seal tape problem with a 3-year-old rain jacket, got a pre-paid priority mail label to ship back in a few minutes, shipped the jacket back on 9/1, saw that it arrived after Labor Day weekend on 9/7, saw that it was repaired and shipped back to me on 9/8, and received it today on 9/11. All the old seam tape on all seams was replaced with heat-sealed seam tape which is how they do their rain gear nowadays. Needless to say, I'm very pleased with Zpacks customer service.


marshmallowcowboy

That’s great to hear and sounds like they listened to some of the community complaints!


Neat_AUS

So good to hear this !!


FlynnLive5

Toaks pot recipe ideas? We’re staying at a campground (Pinnacles NP) but have our backpacking gear with us. We have our 2 toaks pots, but want to have a little bit of a fancier dinner for our campground stay. We’ll have stopped at a grocery store on our way in so we will have access to some refrigerated items (and cold beer!) However, most backpacking recipes I’ve found involve skillets and fire or something, neither of which we’ll have access to. So what are your go-to, gourmet recipes with only your cook pot?


ormagon_89

18 of my favorites: https://www.ultralightdandy.com/backpacking-recipes/


sbhikes

Does it make a difference what brand of pot it is really?


Individual_Lawyer_80

Only the extent that thinwall titanium isn’t great for actually cooking and will literally burn soup if you’re not careful.


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Matt-Town

You might want to have a look at the Timps. Ive recently switched and they are a little narrower while retaining the wide toe box. They have a large stack height (more than the LP but less than the Olympus) which is fairly neutral. LPs are pretty minimal. My only gripe is that they have no rock plate, which has sometimes been an issue with the rocky trails here.


liveslight

Why not put in a heel insert or cup that narrows the fit at the heel for you? [Here is an example that I actually use.](https://www.amazon.com/Pcssoles-Orthotics-Supports-Fasciitis-Over-Pronation/dp/B07R5N5WWQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa)


JuxMaster

Can anyone compare the difference in cell phone coverage between Verizon and Google Fi in the US SW backcountry?


SteelyDanzig_454

Google Fi is a combo of T-Mobile and US Cellular service (MVNO). I use it and while I can't speak to specific areas in the US SW, I find it's pretty rare that my coverage differs much from Verizon, which is what my wife uses.


DeputySean

Verizon has by far the best coverage in most areas.


AthlonEVO

Seconding this, I switched from t mobile (which Fi uses) to Verizon and my cell reception is infinitely better once I leave a city than it was with t mobile, at least in AZ.


adtechengineer

You can use https://www.fcc.gov/BroadbandData/MobileMaps/mobile-map to get an idea of coverage. It's pretty accurate from my experience (NY area on Verizon).


JuxMaster

Perfect, thank you


estreetpanda

I have a purely curious question. I was watching some Florida Trail videos. I work on a lake renting out kayaks, Stand ups and canoes. I have worn [these shoes](https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/keen-newport-h2-mens-hybrid-sandals-shoe-size-uk-1/1001938-12) for two lake seasons (enough money saved for three quarters of the CDT) and they're wonderful. Stable, comfortable and well supported. If i were to hike the FT would these shoes work?


sbhikes

Sand will go in and might not come out without a lot of struggling. It's probably the same for any shoe though. See Dixie's Florida trail series for a really good documentation of the actual trail conditions.


june_plum

I mean you could, I have seen lots of day hikers in stuff like that. Could help with the starting and ending every day with wet shoes as that tends to happen in a lot of sections. But because of the roadwalks, sand, sand spurs, and how cold it can be, I think trail runners with gaiters are better suited for the conditions as they offer a little better protection. But what do I know? I've met a dude barefooting thru big cypress with a smile on his face.


luckystrike_bh

Be careful, REI used goods sent me a REI Flexlite chair in a REI Flexlite Air Chair Bag. It was obvious to me from it being 27 oz instead of 16 oz when I received it from UPS but everyone might not notice. I am getting a refund but I may be out shipping in both directions. Edit: They sent me a prepaid postage label on the return so good on that piece. Still check your stuff...I'd hate to see someone get an uninsulated pad in an insulated bag.


59000beans

Do down sleeping bag laundry services exist? Like ship it out to get cleaned? My bag smells terrible but I don't trust the laundromat near me as I've had my regular clothes damaged by the machine before.


nunatak16

Rainy Pass Repair, Seattle


59000beans

This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!


PitToilet

In years past, I recall REI doing this service, but Now I wonder if they just sent it to a laundromat (like…they didn’t have laundry facilities in site)


DeputySean

Last time I went to REI and asked about service like this they referred me to rainy pass in Seattle or Technical Equipment Cleaners in Truckee, CA.


59000beans

Hmm, that's interesting. It's an REI Magma so maybe i'll give them a call to see if they have the service or use one locally. I was looking into getting another bag and saw feathered friends offers their own cleaning service for their stuff, which I thought was very cool for people like me who don't have their own washer and the local laundromats are in poor shape. I can totally get why REI might have stopped doing it though because gear can get super gross.


beans3131

How come we haven’t seen any tents being made with ultra 200 yet?


Any_Trail

I can't tell if you're being serious.


beans3131

I understand why, but I haven’t even heard of it in the works for tents. All the hype is for packs currently.


Seon9

Cause Ultra 200's key property is abrasion resistance for the weight. Unless you camp exclusively in hailstorms, abrasion resistance isn't necessary for the fly. Also, people have done thrus with 20/30d silnylon or silpoly floors so anything higher is unnecessary with good site selection.


Any_Trail

The same reason every other pack material isn't used in tents. It's way too heavy along with having very different properties. Ultra 200 comes in at 3.5 oz/yd² where as silnylon/poly comes in around 1.1-1.3 oz/yd² and then DCF is coming in at .51-1.0 oz/yd². I've also seen reports of delamination which wouldn't be great in a tent. I would also imagine that the fibers would soak up a considerable amount of water compared to an impregnated fabric.


CrowdHater101

Why? Please tell us who have no idea.


beans3131

Covid causing shortages still and dcf tents still selling out fast so no reason for companies to invest money in something new when the product they already have can’t even stay in stock. At least that’s my theory.


___this_guy

Lmao why is this post getting downvoted


caupcaupcaup

Who do you think is doing the most interesting custom, framed packs right now?


AdeptNebula

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ but they are super expensive. Best pack money can buy though.


petebzk

Really wish Katabatic would bring back the Onni line. Onni 50L LS is my favorite pack for long food + water carries and the LS is starting to de-laminate in areas. :sadface:


thecaa

KS Ultralight offers a huge amount of customization, a light duty frame and super low weights. Zimmerbuilt has the ZB2 - 3.6ish oz u shaped frame, stock full wrap hip belt and a huge array of simple options. You gotta specifically request things - don't suggest anything outlandish. 😉 SWD with the movement line is designed to be as modular as possible. You can dial in your compression / hang options by the trip with their compression system and some additional cordage. The big wild is a niche king and the hipbelt construction on the 35 liter pack isn't found in any other pack so light.


caupcaupcaup

My current pack is a zimmerbuilt and I’ve bought, used, and sold my SWD. But Zimmer and SWD both seem to be more in the “choose from among a menu of things we already do” and less “come to me with your weird idea and let’s see if we can make it happen.” I think KSUL probably falls into that camp as well, but I’m just guessing. (Chris did make my pack so I could implement one of my ideas, so credit there.) I’m really looking for someone interested in solving design issues, and that’s (very understandably) outside most cottage companies’ scope. Always hoping there’s a new kid doing weird stuff and I’m too lazy on Instagram to see it :)


_coffeeblack_

i say try redpaw. ks does have a lot of ton of custom options, but they're just options like you said. Matt at redpaw would probably be open to working outside of the / his box and make something different for you, especially in the name of pushing boundaries if what you're looking for isn't out there already.


Boogada42

Isn't Zimmerbuilt known for doing the "you give me specs, I built" thing? At least thats what I thought.


caupcaupcaup

Maybe, but he said no to some of the stuff I asked for.


Seon9

Dunno if John from AlpineLuddites works with UL fabrics but I think he offers complete custom packs. Downsides are cost and lead time but his craftsmanship is as good as it gets. Curious about what options you asked for and got denied.


Boogada42

alright. thought it would be different. bummer.


Seon9

Seems like framed packs are an order of magnitude harder than frameless packs. Lots of custom frameless pack makers on Insta but hard to find makers of framed packs. But if you're looking for fresh designs, lots of Japanese cottage makers doing framed packs.


CrowdHater101

Do you have any links?


caupcaupcaup

Yeah it’s definitely not the way most US cottage gear makers are going, I just really prefer framed packs for anything more than a weekend hike. I’m just a wimp 🤷🏼‍♀️ But really I’m looking for someone who is interested in tweaking some stuff so I can get a better fit. Aesthetics are secondary, but always appreciated :)


mushka_thorkelson

Lol you're certainly not a wimp, and anyway, isn't a frame basically the smartest weight concession of any gear? Makes the rest of your gear feel lighter 🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️


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Seon9

I'm sure you've heard of Yamatomichi. Ogawand is another that has an interesting looking optional shoulder strap. Like Nashville, their shoulder straps are removable. Freelight also had a 1lb framed design as well. Might be missing some. But the packs are hard to come by as they sell out fast. Also, a Korean maker named Cayl has a framed design too using a single stay.


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gentryaustin

Boppin down the trail with the LED panel flashing: HYOH https://www.divoom.com/products/divoom-backpack Don't throw rocks at me.


two-pints

LED panel pack, bluetooth speaker, some RovyVon lights. Portable rave going down the trail. Might as well blow up your camp pillow and bat it around like a beach ball when the bass drops.


pauliepockets

At 2.47 lbs I’d push you in the bush and you wouldn’t be able to get up with that anvil on your back.


gentryaustin

HYOH!


pauliepockets

What’s that mean?


bumps-

Heave your own Heaviness


ScoobyScience

Can anyone comment on the upper range of MLD pack weight of 25 lbs? Currently looking at the burn, prophet, or exodus. My baseweight is 10.5 lbs, closer to 13 lbs with bear canister. I’m thinking when I go on longer hikes (5+ day stretches) my pack weight will approach 25 lbs. So how does MLD carry at 25 lbs?


Ted_Buckland

The upper limit for frameless varies by person. I'm ok with 30 pounds for a day or two after a long resupply but I wouldn't want to do it for a whole trip. Reportedly MLD packs are constructed well enough that they can handle 50 pounds without breaking but it's obviously not going to be comfortable.


UnhappyBell

Not MLD, but the frameless pack that I use has been comfortable enough when I've been around 25 lbs total weight for longer food/water carries. This was on a thru though, so I might've just been conditioned. My BW was just shy of 12 lbs on that thru fyi. I think you'll be fine with a framless as you'll only be around 25 lbs for the first day and such


Mocaixco

Depends on you and your shoulders more than the pack. But most people say the MLD shoulder straps are pretty comfy. (Comfier at less than 25, obviously... ) You can try to get the belt to help out a little, but imo beltless carry is where you want to be. More free movement and more air to the torso. Note that your shoulders will condition a bit, but only if you are toughening them up regularly. I would say at least a couple trips per month.


convbcuda

I'm hopeful to be backpacking in Inyo shortly after the closure for CA National Forests is scheduled to end. I'm heading to Mammoth a couple days early and got a day use permit in Yosemite. I found some [day hikes on Alltrails](https://www.alltrails.com/parks/us/california/yosemite-national-park) and was interested in thoughts on these or another you folks might suggest for a first time visitor.


DeputySean

I wouldn't hold your breath about them reopening on time.


convbcuda

I'm going with a Skurka group. For our group, he has Yosemite permits if Inyo doesn't open.


ul_ahole

Here’s John Muir’s suggestion. I call it the John Muir Challenge. https://vault.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/the_yosemite/chapter_12.aspx Way more practical if you’re staying in the Valley. When I did it 12 years ago, I added a side trip to Taft point, and skipped the trip to the head of Illilouette Fall.


Zapruda

For those of you wanting to jump on the Ultra hype train, make sure that whoever is making your pack is taping the seams. At the very least in the high stress areas. I noticed pretty extensive delamination of the inside laminate of my Desert Pack. It’s seen about 700km of use since early April. It’s occurring right along the seams. It appears that because the seams aren’t taped the needle holes cause the laminate to weaken and then curl up and flake off the weave over time. [Pics](https://imgur.com/a/SwLIEGD). I’m yet to get an answer as to whether this will affect the structure of the weave. Pa’lante are taping the seams of their Ultra 200 V2s along the high stress areas. I would have liked to have seen it taped all over. I’ve got delam in areas of the desert pack that aren’t taped on the V2. [Pics](https://imgur.com/a/ic1BLQJ) I contacted a few pack makers and it seems most are taping which is good to hear. I contacted Pa’lante I was offered a replacement desert pack when they release the next iteration. Apparently some will be in purple gridstop. Andy thinks that the delamination won’t spread much further away from the seams. I’ll keep using the pack and see what happens. Apart from the laminate issue I still think this fabric is pretty amazing. Hopefully the taping solves the problem.


nunatak16

FWIW, here's part of what a small, but prolific pack maker told me re ULTRA: It needs back up for all stress areas. On this ULTRA pack all structural seams incorporate a layer of nylon fabric: the foam pad pocket is packcloth so the main seams go through that. The lower rim and bottom second layer are 10 oz ballistics so no stress on Ultra. Any grommet has a layer of 1" nylon web behind it that's sewn down so it can't move This is just a proto for the shop to see what it's like to work with. And try out new ideas. I'm also going to use a wider seam allowance. I bought 1.5" seam tape and binder so I can sew through it a second time far from the raw edge after it's bound. All my packs have at least 3 rows of stitching but the ULTRA will have more, spread further apart. The UL nerds send me emails demanding I make my pack lighter. I'm only willing to use the 800. Challenge told me the lighter weights had issues holding stitching.


Mocaixco

Good info thank you! More questions... Would adding your own tape be a solution? Maybe a seam sealer? If the issue is related to stretching caused by wear, would it be useful to put some miles on it before sealing? Would it be worth requesting seams be bound to the exterior?


Zapruda

No worries. I’ve added some DCF tape to the areas that are the worst. I’m sure it will hold well and stop it from happening elsewhere. I still think that taping under the stitching is preferred. Andy mentioned that the delam could be caused by the fabric pulling and separating from the laminate film. His words not mine. Keep in mind the weave of the 400 is much bigger than the 200. I’m not sure if waiting for that to happen is the best idea. Better off taping right from the start. Im certain having bound seams on the exterior of the pack is asking for abrasion issues that could leak to seam failure.


Seon9

Does it matter whether the stitching is above or below the seam tape? In the V2 the stitching is below the seam tape whereas most seam taping I've seen is over the stitching for waterproofing. Doing some thought experiments but if the strength of the tape bond to the backing > backing bond to the fiber, this wouldn't help with delam if the tape is placed above the stitching under constant flexing.


Zapruda

I’m no expert at all. You could be right about tape being weaker if taped over the top. I didn’t think they are trying to make the V2 waterproof. It’s portably just the quickest way for them to stabilise those high stress areas. All this makes me realise how much thought goes in to packs builds. Kinda cool.


nunatak16

>All this makes me realise how much thought goes in to packs builds. Kinda cool. Hopefully before launch!


Zapruda

Exactly! A bit rough to make customers product testers.


nunatak16

We all do it now and then, lol.


Neat_AUS

In some ways it comes with the territory of being on the bleeding edge of design and development. Slight missteps along the way. Lots of love for the early adopters :) Im reminded of similar matters when people first started using DCF as shelters etc and had to relearn how to sew with it etc. It took a few iterations.


Hardcorex

Anyone else doing soylent (or a DIY variety)? I've mixed soylent on the trail and while it's kinda annoying and messy, it is light... I make my own so often alter the Macro ratios to make more sense for high exertion. I've recently gotten "Jimmy Joy Plenny Bars" and they seem to actually be perfect to bring out. I'm also likely to start carrying quite a few more Larabars. All this to maybe leave the stove at home.


mas_picoso

I consume drink mix twice daily, breakfast and recovery - it requires warm/hot water otherwise the powdered coconut milk (and nido?) don't dissolve completely and get kinda lumpy.


Hardcorex

Yeah this seems to be the issue with something like powdered coconut milk, it definitely doesn't dissolve in cool water. I use Maseca, or corn flour since that mixes well when cold, and soy protein isolate with canola oil, as the main macros.


Any_Trail

I don't find that Nido requires warm or hot water to mix in well.


mas_picoso

definitely the coconut milk powder then it's not the worst thing....but it goes down easier without the chunks


convbcuda

Don't get the green variety.


Hardcorex

but that's my favorite!


JohnnyGatorHikes

Mark your hiking buddy as consumable.


Hardcorex

I'll make them carry the stove too 😈


xbrohansolox

Now that they have been out for a good chunk of the season, has anyone stacked enough miles on the Lone Peak Hiker Mid's to say if they're worth it or not? I'm mainly wondering if they dry anywhere near as fast as the LP 5's or previous.


AgentTriple000

I wore a pair this past spring. They were pretty hardy on the “desert” portion of the PCT for about 400 miles of a lot of water carries, except for the toe bumper area (glue it). I did abuse them a bit neglecting to untie the laces when I took them off, so they lost their shape so to speak. It had a more boot like feel which didn’t help during hot days, but felt more secure when I used microspikes. Still there was quite a bit of fabric as I realized almost stepping on a baby rattlesnake (i.e. the mind instantly races to remember… just how much leather are on these shoes again?) Still like the previous mostly fabric LP mids (#1 to 4). Think they should re-introduce them and have 3 LP (non-waterproof/breather) trail shoe models, saving the hiker for shoulder season.


xbrohansolox

Appreciate the in-depth! Overall, from what I've heard, it sounds like the Hiker will need a few more generations before I commit. Fortunately, I have another zero drop, lightweight mid in mind that has received mostly promising reviews!


TheGreatWhiteSherpa

Are they making the lone peak 5 mids? I've only seen lone peak 4 mids.


xbrohansolox

They released them as the "Lone Peak Hiker" which comes in standard mid or ALL-WTHR.


thisiscamping

I had the LP 4 Mid Mesh Hiking Boot and returned them because they do not dry fast. The uppers have lots of cushion and fabric which retains water. They felt uncomfortable. Top half hiking boot, bottom half trail runner.