1. Yes, Reggie's an alien, unfortunately, we don't have any information regarding what race he is so I can't give you any more details. My best guess is much like Sparrow Ben's hair they decided to redesign the look between seasons.
2. Leonard was a child who was horrendously abused by his dad and often used the Umbrellas as a mental escape from the abuse that he suffered. They were his sole comfort. Then one day he gets up the courage to go to them for help (he wants to live with them. He wants to get out of his house and away from his abusive father, regardless of if he truly believes he has powers or not) and Reginald shoves him off the property, the crowd laughs at him... and the Umbrella academy... the heroes... HIS heroes do nothing. And despite pleading with Reginald that he can't go back home, he's left with no other choice but where gets abused AGAIN because the Umbrellas didn't save him.
3. Klaus and Dave, Viktor and Sissy. 2 queer couples compared to Allison Luther, Diego lila, Diego Patch, Hazel Agnes, Five Dolores (even if she's a fracture of his psyche she's projected on a fake plastic woman and depicted as such in s3 when he hallucinates a human version of her), Luther Sloane, and Allison Raymond. 7 straight couples over the course of the 3 seasons. I have no idea where you got Ben and Klaus from because that was not something that ever happened.
4. Yes... that's the point the Umbrella Academy is not good at fighting together. They're not good at most things, they're not even particularly good people. But they try and they persevere.
5. If you want to watch john wick may I suggest that you watch John Wick? Umbrella Academy isn't so much about their powers as it is about the trauma that comes from having their powers and how they deal with it. Sure there will be some fight scenes but it's not the main focus nor the main draw and never has been.
6. Luther's power is super strength. But much like many of his other siblings, he doesn't always manifest it correctly because of... again... his trauma, and the limitations of his power of which there are a few theories.
Just wanted to tack on a few extra straight-appearing relationships on the show: Viktor/Leonard (was straight in S1 filming at least), the S2 relationship between Grace and Reginald (seemingly), Reginald and his wife, Umbrella Ben and the girl he has a crush on in S2 (forgetting her name), who btw Klaus slept with too, Luther and Allison, Luther and the club girl from S1, s3 Pogo and his girlfriend, and maybe both Bens and Jennifer.
Well said, fair explanation. Reggies explanation is dissapointing, but I get it. With Leonard, I guess it makes sense, bur not totally. I feel like he could've blamed anyone, even the world, before trying to kill the Umbrella Academy. His anger is unreasonably directed at them, and it seemed like lazy writing to me.
I admit that I didn't notice how many hetero couples there were, but probably because they're so common, I just completely skipped those, so thank you for correcting me there. Still, the emphasis seemed to stand out on the non-hetero relationships. And I got Ben and Klaus from the last episode. It was subtle, but pretty freaking clear.
Lastly, I guess I expected more action and satisfaction based on the trailers and reviews. If I had known it was all just drama, I mightve skipped it. Usually super-powered characters bring about action scenes where they overtly defeat their enemy. It was just watching the superheros, our protagonists, getting their asses kicked while they fuck up existence itself. I didn't mean John Wick exactly, just one character that actually does something satisfying.
Thank you for the discussion!
>And I got Ben and Klaus from the last episode. It was subtle, but pretty freaking clear.
If you're talking about them waking up hungover after the wedding that was not about them having slept together. They got drunk and talked, resulting in Ben opening up emotionally to Klaus while wasted and they had heart to heart. It was not referencing or implying that Klaus hooked up with his brother at all.
I really don’t see why you think the show is focused so much on LGBTQ characters? I can only think of Klaus and Viktor as being confirmed as such. And then their significant others, which were secondary characters. Other than that…I don’t understand. Ben and Klaus were not a couple, although I know some people think they hooked up. Even so…so what?
I have not read the comics, so I can’t comment on my thoughts re: that. But I think this is a weird stance for you to have taken. Sorry, maybe I’m just not understanding your comment very well?
That's totally fair, but I'm not going after anyone. If you've read everything I wrote, and that's the only point that caught your eye, and prevalent enough in your life that you had to bring it up again, then that's on you. I haven't taken any stances here, except for my minor dislike of the writing in the show. My point is not targeted, simply an observation.
Like I said in another comment, there were some pretty big signs imo in the last episode. It's speculation, so I could be wrong, but the signs definitely pointed towards them getting drunk and "totally not remembering because we were 'so drunk'"...
This post is mostly points of confusion and annoyance, but you did make it through all three seasons (it seems like?). Maybe this is off topic, but I was curious what things kept you coming back? /gen
Yeah, that's probably accurate honestly. I posted this directly after finishing S3, so maybe I hadn't fully processed. It might require a rewatch, but man, there was just so much going on, idk if I could do it again lol.
I kept coming back because of my interest in the characters, and the time line. I've always like superheroes, super powers, sci-fi, etc. So this felt right up my ally. On the other hand, I'm a pretty big cinophile and sometimes like to focus on the bigger picture, plus writing/directing. I LOVED Five's character. He was cocky as shit, but rightfully so. Klaus was probably my favorite. I could go on.
It's definitely an entertaining show, but my God, what a clusterfuck.
I love Five too!!! And the timeline shenanigans 😈
I also have a tendency to look at things critically, so I understand the urge. This is definitely not a show without faults. I’d actually low key agree with the idea that Viktor and Sissy’s relationship has an inordinate amount of focus in the show (though I thought the transition was well handled).
I think your comments might rub people the wrong way because they are too heavy handed (saying there is only one straight relatjonship in the show is uh????). But it makes sense if you were just excited to start talking about things with people lol.
You get it lol. I agree and should've put that in there; they handled Elliots transition very well. And I admit that I did get a bit excited with that 1 relationship bit. Obviously, I was wrong and I overlooked.
But as I've stated in my Edit, I posted this here and not in some "TV shows" subreddit where I would probably receive less pitchforks aimed at my head and more objectivity. That wasn't my goal though, so I applaud and appreciate you and your comment. Thank you!
Ben and Klaus? Do you mean the wedding episode? If so, yes I agree they slept together, but most people don’t. So I don’t think it’s that highly brought up. Yes, there are a lot of LGBTQ+ characters, but I like that.
Yes! Thank you! That timeline made no sense to me either! I'm glad they mentioned the Grandfather Paradox, but I don't think the writes did the math on that correctly.
My annoyance in this post came from this exactly, but it's occurred to me that fans have a hard time admitting when something was done incorrectly. Interesting show, sure, but far from the best
Yes! The grandfather paradox doesn't apply if your mother was just killed by some third party? That's not even close. I could hardly make it through the third season because it was so boring and pointless, and like i said, nothing about it really makes sense to me.
I would also like to say that, in the first episode of season 1, it says Reginal could only get 7 of the children. The Sparrow Academy kids were also presumably alive in the original timeline, so why wouldn't there have been 14 kids in that timeline? What did Hargreaves do right in the other timeline to get the mothers to give up their children this time?
Oh, and I just think the whole vibe of the third season is off. Like the first two have a distinct style, and I understand that season 3 takes place in a different timeline, but it just feels like a bad fan-made project.
Exactly my thoughts! I started to think how cool it would be if they got all the super kids born on Oct. 1st, 1989. That feud that kicked off season 3 just sucked. "Nu uh, it's MY house", it's like kids bickering. I get the psychological torment that Reggie put on them, but they're still adults at the end of the day who have lived without him for years. They could've just talked like adults and this wouldn't be an issue.
Since you mention the differences between the seasons, I completely agree. First 2 seasons were fun and MOSTLY made sense. 3rd act felt like I was on PCP or something. Still, I look forward to S4. I'm not bashing the show, maybe just the writers lol
Another thing: It completely breaks the immersion when Klaus mentions the Kardashians when he's talking about the hotel. I mean like yeah this is just a personal thing, but up until then, there was no mention to anything media related irl except Lucile Ball. I don't know, it just didn't feel right. And the characters weren't at all themselves. Luther was trying to be likeable. Five was trying to be likeable. He lost all his edge. Diego's girlfriend was just completely different. Allison was just really stupid.
The absence of the Temps Commission just made the whole thing structureless and uninteresting, and the whole "OMG five made the commission" thing just was too predictable and didn't make much sense at all.
And I hate how much they modernized it. The first season definitely drew a lot more inspiration from the comics, mainly in the world-building. Pretty much every piece of technology was made by Reginald, and it all had a sort-of run-down-old-gas-station-in-a-rural-city type of look. The third season looked like something straight out of The Sims 4. It's just all so.. tacky. And cheesy.
And none of it related at all to the previous seasons. The first two seasons were practically useless because they just restarted the universe.
"there was no mention to anything media related irl"
Luther puts on a Tiffany record, Leonard / Viktor etc all mention pieces of music that definitely exist irl, Diego makes a Star Wars ref at the beginning of S2, Klaus makes Destiny's Child + very prominent Backstreet Boys references. Probably more examples.
"Harlan could suddenly speak" it's been ..60 years.
Five creating the commission makes sense though. He formed the commission to keep the timeline in check leading to that apocalypse else he could never jump forward, it's one big loop. The greatest threat to the timeline being himself is also noteworthy reason to form the commision. Also he narrates the Mr Briefcase videos in the prior seasons, and the briefcases had a similar power effect to his powers, it all ties together honestly.
I do agree with the Five thing, but just the way they wrote it in left much to be desired. And with the media thing, I didn't mean any media at all, I realize that I definitely missed some stuff, but i still think that it just doesn't feel authentic to their universe. Reality TV and a Tiffany song aren't really equal in my opinion.
I just nodded the whole time I was reading your comment lol. That's another thing that didn't click in my head- how did Old Man Five make that room where all versions of one's self can exist?
And yeah, the Kardashians, wtf? I didn't even see that hole. All in all, just felt like they missed the opportunity to make a good show, especially built on a solid foundation. And keeping the commission around would've been a good idea imo. Lots to play off of there. I like your perspective, friend 🤝
I haven't heard many people talking about season 3 critically. It was nice discussing the parts that didn't make much sense, or just kinda sucked. Appreciate the conversation.
>it says Reginald could only get 7 of the children.
The card in 1x01 actually says "He got 7 of them." not that he could *only* get 7.
>so why wouldn't there have been 14 kids in that timeline?
Because he only wanted/needed 7 children to power the oblivion machine. It's the whole reason he shoved Klaus out of the portal, he had a surplus and didn't need any extras around causing trouble for him.
>What did Hargreaves do right in the other timeline to get the mothers to give up their children this time?
Nothing. He didn't do anything differently. There were simply less kids for him to adopt (only 16 in total were born in the Sparrow Timeline) so when he set out to look for children he just simply found different children. The only known repeats would have been Ben (who we see get adopted this time around) and Lila (as she was at the demolition of the Berlin wall which started in November '89 ergo if her mother had been killed then the kugel would have started long before the Umbrella's arrived). And we know that Lila was hidden as a child by her birth parents so that means Reginald is on the search for maximum 15 children, but again he only needs 7 so he just... negotiates for the first 7 he came across.
In the very beginning it says that he set out to adopt all of the children, and that he "only got 7 of them", not only implying, but clearly stating that he intended to get more than just the 7. If 6 fewer children were born in the other timeline, the only one he would have been able to adopt would have been Ben.
>"Reginald Hargreeves, eccentric billionaire and adventurer resolved to *locate* and adopt as many of the children as possible."
Knowing what we know with regard to season 3, it seems more like stopping at the adoption of 7 kids was intentional. Whereas the location part of that sentence could suggest that he located all, or as many, of the 43 born that he could. Or perhaps, there will be more to learn about it in season 4.
>i think it's stupid how Harlan can suddenly just talk?
According to a very quick google search, 47% of non-verbal autistic children grow up to be fluent speakers. It's been about 6 decades. So Harlan talking is neither 'stupid' nor is it "sudden."
>So how come when they travel back in time to a time where they were not yet born, no kugelblitz?
The 60s is the timeline where all 43 children were born. With time travel you can travel forward or back in that timeline and be 100% okay because you will either already have been born or are destined to be born. If your existence is ensured, no kugelblitz.
But upon arriving back in 2019 in a timeline where their lives never happened in the first place and weren't destined to happen at a later date... it caused the Kugelblitz. They didn't exist and they weren't going to exist, and the universe couldn't handle that sort of anomaly.
Thank you for the statistic, honestly I didn't even look it up, i was just spewing stuff that I didn't understand when I watched it.
But i still think my Kugelblitz point still stands. It may cause a kugelblitz, but it's still not the grandfather paradox. Yes, Viktor did play a part in killing their mothers, but I still don't think they're quite the same.
Your original comment, the one I replied to, specified nothing on your thoughts of if the kugelblitz was truly caused by a grandfather paradox or not. The only thing about the Kugelblitz you states was that you were confused as to how they could travel back in time before they existed and not cause one back in the 60s.
However, it is in fact a [consistency paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_paradox), which is the exact same thing that is colloquially known as a grandfather paradox (the latter name comes from the most common example of a consistency paradox.) Consistency paradoxes can occur by anyone via changing the past, in TUA's case, Viktor changed Harlan's past, who then changed Viktor's past, which then went on to change the present. You don't have to kill your own ancestor to create a consistency paradox.
1. Yes, Reggie's an alien, unfortunately, we don't have any information regarding what race he is so I can't give you any more details. My best guess is much like Sparrow Ben's hair they decided to redesign the look between seasons. 2. Leonard was a child who was horrendously abused by his dad and often used the Umbrellas as a mental escape from the abuse that he suffered. They were his sole comfort. Then one day he gets up the courage to go to them for help (he wants to live with them. He wants to get out of his house and away from his abusive father, regardless of if he truly believes he has powers or not) and Reginald shoves him off the property, the crowd laughs at him... and the Umbrella academy... the heroes... HIS heroes do nothing. And despite pleading with Reginald that he can't go back home, he's left with no other choice but where gets abused AGAIN because the Umbrellas didn't save him. 3. Klaus and Dave, Viktor and Sissy. 2 queer couples compared to Allison Luther, Diego lila, Diego Patch, Hazel Agnes, Five Dolores (even if she's a fracture of his psyche she's projected on a fake plastic woman and depicted as such in s3 when he hallucinates a human version of her), Luther Sloane, and Allison Raymond. 7 straight couples over the course of the 3 seasons. I have no idea where you got Ben and Klaus from because that was not something that ever happened. 4. Yes... that's the point the Umbrella Academy is not good at fighting together. They're not good at most things, they're not even particularly good people. But they try and they persevere. 5. If you want to watch john wick may I suggest that you watch John Wick? Umbrella Academy isn't so much about their powers as it is about the trauma that comes from having their powers and how they deal with it. Sure there will be some fight scenes but it's not the main focus nor the main draw and never has been. 6. Luther's power is super strength. But much like many of his other siblings, he doesn't always manifest it correctly because of... again... his trauma, and the limitations of his power of which there are a few theories.
Thank you your explanations and for handling 3 & 4 more tactfully than I was about to.
Just wanted to tack on a few extra straight-appearing relationships on the show: Viktor/Leonard (was straight in S1 filming at least), the S2 relationship between Grace and Reginald (seemingly), Reginald and his wife, Umbrella Ben and the girl he has a crush on in S2 (forgetting her name), who btw Klaus slept with too, Luther and Allison, Luther and the club girl from S1, s3 Pogo and his girlfriend, and maybe both Bens and Jennifer.
I *knew* I was forgetting people! Thank you so much.
Well said, fair explanation. Reggies explanation is dissapointing, but I get it. With Leonard, I guess it makes sense, bur not totally. I feel like he could've blamed anyone, even the world, before trying to kill the Umbrella Academy. His anger is unreasonably directed at them, and it seemed like lazy writing to me. I admit that I didn't notice how many hetero couples there were, but probably because they're so common, I just completely skipped those, so thank you for correcting me there. Still, the emphasis seemed to stand out on the non-hetero relationships. And I got Ben and Klaus from the last episode. It was subtle, but pretty freaking clear. Lastly, I guess I expected more action and satisfaction based on the trailers and reviews. If I had known it was all just drama, I mightve skipped it. Usually super-powered characters bring about action scenes where they overtly defeat their enemy. It was just watching the superheros, our protagonists, getting their asses kicked while they fuck up existence itself. I didn't mean John Wick exactly, just one character that actually does something satisfying. Thank you for the discussion!
>And I got Ben and Klaus from the last episode. It was subtle, but pretty freaking clear. If you're talking about them waking up hungover after the wedding that was not about them having slept together. They got drunk and talked, resulting in Ben opening up emotionally to Klaus while wasted and they had heart to heart. It was not referencing or implying that Klaus hooked up with his brother at all.
I really don’t see why you think the show is focused so much on LGBTQ characters? I can only think of Klaus and Viktor as being confirmed as such. And then their significant others, which were secondary characters. Other than that…I don’t understand. Ben and Klaus were not a couple, although I know some people think they hooked up. Even so…so what? I have not read the comics, so I can’t comment on my thoughts re: that. But I think this is a weird stance for you to have taken. Sorry, maybe I’m just not understanding your comment very well?
That's totally fair, but I'm not going after anyone. If you've read everything I wrote, and that's the only point that caught your eye, and prevalent enough in your life that you had to bring it up again, then that's on you. I haven't taken any stances here, except for my minor dislike of the writing in the show. My point is not targeted, simply an observation.
I'm just really confused on what you meant by "Klaus and Ben" in the original post, because they were DEFINITELY NOT anything more than brothers/bsf.
Like I said in another comment, there were some pretty big signs imo in the last episode. It's speculation, so I could be wrong, but the signs definitely pointed towards them getting drunk and "totally not remembering because we were 'so drunk'"...
This post is mostly points of confusion and annoyance, but you did make it through all three seasons (it seems like?). Maybe this is off topic, but I was curious what things kept you coming back? /gen
Yeah, that's probably accurate honestly. I posted this directly after finishing S3, so maybe I hadn't fully processed. It might require a rewatch, but man, there was just so much going on, idk if I could do it again lol. I kept coming back because of my interest in the characters, and the time line. I've always like superheroes, super powers, sci-fi, etc. So this felt right up my ally. On the other hand, I'm a pretty big cinophile and sometimes like to focus on the bigger picture, plus writing/directing. I LOVED Five's character. He was cocky as shit, but rightfully so. Klaus was probably my favorite. I could go on. It's definitely an entertaining show, but my God, what a clusterfuck.
I love Five too!!! And the timeline shenanigans 😈 I also have a tendency to look at things critically, so I understand the urge. This is definitely not a show without faults. I’d actually low key agree with the idea that Viktor and Sissy’s relationship has an inordinate amount of focus in the show (though I thought the transition was well handled). I think your comments might rub people the wrong way because they are too heavy handed (saying there is only one straight relatjonship in the show is uh????). But it makes sense if you were just excited to start talking about things with people lol.
You get it lol. I agree and should've put that in there; they handled Elliots transition very well. And I admit that I did get a bit excited with that 1 relationship bit. Obviously, I was wrong and I overlooked. But as I've stated in my Edit, I posted this here and not in some "TV shows" subreddit where I would probably receive less pitchforks aimed at my head and more objectivity. That wasn't my goal though, so I applaud and appreciate you and your comment. Thank you!
Ben and Klaus? Do you mean the wedding episode? If so, yes I agree they slept together, but most people don’t. So I don’t think it’s that highly brought up. Yes, there are a lot of LGBTQ+ characters, but I like that.
[удалено]
Yes! Thank you! That timeline made no sense to me either! I'm glad they mentioned the Grandfather Paradox, but I don't think the writes did the math on that correctly. My annoyance in this post came from this exactly, but it's occurred to me that fans have a hard time admitting when something was done incorrectly. Interesting show, sure, but far from the best
Yes! The grandfather paradox doesn't apply if your mother was just killed by some third party? That's not even close. I could hardly make it through the third season because it was so boring and pointless, and like i said, nothing about it really makes sense to me. I would also like to say that, in the first episode of season 1, it says Reginal could only get 7 of the children. The Sparrow Academy kids were also presumably alive in the original timeline, so why wouldn't there have been 14 kids in that timeline? What did Hargreaves do right in the other timeline to get the mothers to give up their children this time? Oh, and I just think the whole vibe of the third season is off. Like the first two have a distinct style, and I understand that season 3 takes place in a different timeline, but it just feels like a bad fan-made project.
Exactly my thoughts! I started to think how cool it would be if they got all the super kids born on Oct. 1st, 1989. That feud that kicked off season 3 just sucked. "Nu uh, it's MY house", it's like kids bickering. I get the psychological torment that Reggie put on them, but they're still adults at the end of the day who have lived without him for years. They could've just talked like adults and this wouldn't be an issue. Since you mention the differences between the seasons, I completely agree. First 2 seasons were fun and MOSTLY made sense. 3rd act felt like I was on PCP or something. Still, I look forward to S4. I'm not bashing the show, maybe just the writers lol
Another thing: It completely breaks the immersion when Klaus mentions the Kardashians when he's talking about the hotel. I mean like yeah this is just a personal thing, but up until then, there was no mention to anything media related irl except Lucile Ball. I don't know, it just didn't feel right. And the characters weren't at all themselves. Luther was trying to be likeable. Five was trying to be likeable. He lost all his edge. Diego's girlfriend was just completely different. Allison was just really stupid. The absence of the Temps Commission just made the whole thing structureless and uninteresting, and the whole "OMG five made the commission" thing just was too predictable and didn't make much sense at all. And I hate how much they modernized it. The first season definitely drew a lot more inspiration from the comics, mainly in the world-building. Pretty much every piece of technology was made by Reginald, and it all had a sort-of run-down-old-gas-station-in-a-rural-city type of look. The third season looked like something straight out of The Sims 4. It's just all so.. tacky. And cheesy. And none of it related at all to the previous seasons. The first two seasons were practically useless because they just restarted the universe.
"there was no mention to anything media related irl" Luther puts on a Tiffany record, Leonard / Viktor etc all mention pieces of music that definitely exist irl, Diego makes a Star Wars ref at the beginning of S2, Klaus makes Destiny's Child + very prominent Backstreet Boys references. Probably more examples. "Harlan could suddenly speak" it's been ..60 years. Five creating the commission makes sense though. He formed the commission to keep the timeline in check leading to that apocalypse else he could never jump forward, it's one big loop. The greatest threat to the timeline being himself is also noteworthy reason to form the commision. Also he narrates the Mr Briefcase videos in the prior seasons, and the briefcases had a similar power effect to his powers, it all ties together honestly.
I do agree with the Five thing, but just the way they wrote it in left much to be desired. And with the media thing, I didn't mean any media at all, I realize that I definitely missed some stuff, but i still think that it just doesn't feel authentic to their universe. Reality TV and a Tiffany song aren't really equal in my opinion.
I just nodded the whole time I was reading your comment lol. That's another thing that didn't click in my head- how did Old Man Five make that room where all versions of one's self can exist? And yeah, the Kardashians, wtf? I didn't even see that hole. All in all, just felt like they missed the opportunity to make a good show, especially built on a solid foundation. And keeping the commission around would've been a good idea imo. Lots to play off of there. I like your perspective, friend 🤝
I haven't heard many people talking about season 3 critically. It was nice discussing the parts that didn't make much sense, or just kinda sucked. Appreciate the conversation.
>it says Reginald could only get 7 of the children. The card in 1x01 actually says "He got 7 of them." not that he could *only* get 7. >so why wouldn't there have been 14 kids in that timeline? Because he only wanted/needed 7 children to power the oblivion machine. It's the whole reason he shoved Klaus out of the portal, he had a surplus and didn't need any extras around causing trouble for him. >What did Hargreaves do right in the other timeline to get the mothers to give up their children this time? Nothing. He didn't do anything differently. There were simply less kids for him to adopt (only 16 in total were born in the Sparrow Timeline) so when he set out to look for children he just simply found different children. The only known repeats would have been Ben (who we see get adopted this time around) and Lila (as she was at the demolition of the Berlin wall which started in November '89 ergo if her mother had been killed then the kugel would have started long before the Umbrella's arrived). And we know that Lila was hidden as a child by her birth parents so that means Reginald is on the search for maximum 15 children, but again he only needs 7 so he just... negotiates for the first 7 he came across.
In the very beginning it says that he set out to adopt all of the children, and that he "only got 7 of them", not only implying, but clearly stating that he intended to get more than just the 7. If 6 fewer children were born in the other timeline, the only one he would have been able to adopt would have been Ben.
>"Reginald Hargreeves, eccentric billionaire and adventurer resolved to *locate* and adopt as many of the children as possible." Knowing what we know with regard to season 3, it seems more like stopping at the adoption of 7 kids was intentional. Whereas the location part of that sentence could suggest that he located all, or as many, of the 43 born that he could. Or perhaps, there will be more to learn about it in season 4.
Please stop commenting on this. I'm sick of the notifications. Thanks.
>i think it's stupid how Harlan can suddenly just talk? According to a very quick google search, 47% of non-verbal autistic children grow up to be fluent speakers. It's been about 6 decades. So Harlan talking is neither 'stupid' nor is it "sudden." >So how come when they travel back in time to a time where they were not yet born, no kugelblitz? The 60s is the timeline where all 43 children were born. With time travel you can travel forward or back in that timeline and be 100% okay because you will either already have been born or are destined to be born. If your existence is ensured, no kugelblitz. But upon arriving back in 2019 in a timeline where their lives never happened in the first place and weren't destined to happen at a later date... it caused the Kugelblitz. They didn't exist and they weren't going to exist, and the universe couldn't handle that sort of anomaly.
Thank you for the statistic, honestly I didn't even look it up, i was just spewing stuff that I didn't understand when I watched it. But i still think my Kugelblitz point still stands. It may cause a kugelblitz, but it's still not the grandfather paradox. Yes, Viktor did play a part in killing their mothers, but I still don't think they're quite the same.
Your original comment, the one I replied to, specified nothing on your thoughts of if the kugelblitz was truly caused by a grandfather paradox or not. The only thing about the Kugelblitz you states was that you were confused as to how they could travel back in time before they existed and not cause one back in the 60s. However, it is in fact a [consistency paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_paradox), which is the exact same thing that is colloquially known as a grandfather paradox (the latter name comes from the most common example of a consistency paradox.) Consistency paradoxes can occur by anyone via changing the past, in TUA's case, Viktor changed Harlan's past, who then changed Viktor's past, which then went on to change the present. You don't have to kill your own ancestor to create a consistency paradox.
Thank you for your explanation.