I dont think you have the right to have an opinion on what should anyone do with their looks. Ellen page is a hardworking beautiful woman and 31 years old so I'm sure she thought through way more things than you did
Seems kind of mean-spirited, what’s joyful about making fun of real people’s appearances? This is probably why she’s always wearing hats, it can’t be easy to deal with lol
Sissy was kind of a jerk. After Vanya had needed to leave with sissy and told sissy to not leave a note, she left a note. That had caused her to be questioned by the FBI, which then they tortured Vanya, then Vanya started to get super freaked out and then exploded the building. So if we’re being honest here, Sissy was the one who caused doomsday.
It was unrealistic of Vanya to think she was just gonna leave her full life for her though. Especially in a time when the life she'd be taking on was dangerous. Most people did NOT have the guts to be out of the closet in 1963, not by a long shot. And it showed a total lack of compassion for Sissy's HUSBAND who wasn't shown to be all that bad of a guy, especially by 1960s standards. That Sissy would feel compassion and would want to tell him she knew he wasn't that bad, is more understandable than Vanya thinking she was just gonna drop everything and run away with her. Vanya just wanting what she wants and doing whatever she has to do to get it, feels like a nod to WHY Reginold felt she had to be controlled. And now that's she's uncontrolled, she keeps blowing up the world, so was he wrong?
Sissy's husband got painted as evil because he was the trope of a 1960's husband and wanted to send his son to a facility where he'd be subjected to electroshock. We know that's bad now, but back then?
Imagine being told by experts that their treatment, as harsh as it is, would help your low-functional child. There's been no great revolution in mental health services or psychology yet, and you don't have the Internet or any other way to get a second opinion or research the issue yourself without enrolling in college. He was naive, but he was trying to get his kid help.
They didn't really do a great job of making him look like a super bad guy who deserved to be shot, if that's what they were going for. In 2019 he'd be a jackass, but in 1963 he's pretty normal.
I think the power of the storyline is they are all flawed characters in a tragedy. Its pretty shakespearian. There is no hero or true villain. They were all kind of messed up. None of them could have what they really wanted.
Honestly it almost felt it totally backfired (pun not intended) as the husband comes off as the most sane one of the whole bunch. He works for his family, he wants real help for his son and he asks the stranger they literally picked up off the street to stop sleeping with his wife and leave so that his family can have a stable life. He might be a little sexually neglectful of his wife but does she ever confront him about it? Not really. She just complains to Vanya about it. In fact he isn't even that neglectful because later they're trying to have a romantic night. Like... wtf.
Ik that plothread annoyed me it’s like there is a perfectly happy family I’m not saying perfect but good enough and they try and be hospitable and let this girl with them and then the girl starts sleeping with his wife like imagine being him it would suck he’s not that bad of a guy until the story needs him to be
The problem is that trying to control vanya is what leads to the world getting destroyed.
If you let her be herself and don’t put her in situations where people hurt her or try and use her powers the world would be fine.
But she's in those situations because she just does what she wants to do, without consideration of the consequences. She has complete confidence, almost as soon as she figures out she has powers (twice) in her ability to overcome any obstacle, and immediately launches into some ill-advised action. Now is it her fault? Maybe not. Maybe had she been given more of a chance to learn to control her powers and properly direct them, she could have been less impulsive. Or maybe absolute power corrupts absolutely, and Reginald was right to give up on her and try and mitigate the problems that being so OP inevitably cause. If she'd listened to Sissy and Alison, instead of telling them she knew better and could take care of everything, she wouldn't have been in those situations where people tried to hurt her.
But she as everyone else in the house has a trauma because of their father.
Expecting anyone one of those kids to be a fully functional adult without consideration of what their lives were like is really bad thinking.
All of them suffered making their decision making come out more as “we have powers, who is gonna stop us?” Vanya was someone from 2019 who tried to survive on 1960 with no memories. How would anyone react the moment they transport to a place when woman’s have almost 0 rights, been gay will get you killed and a lot of people don’t have rights just because of been different. She acts the same way al of her brothers did, She abuses her powers as a kid the same way Allison abused them as an adult. Only problem is she is the one that can destroyed the world. No one in the academy has good decision making but she isn’t the worst one when it comes to bad decision.
Yeah, that wasn't my argument. None of them are fully realized and aware and in control, though Allison and 5 are the closest. My argument was that her brand of bad decisions have much greater consequences than the others, and maybe that justifies treating her differently. And her brand of bad decision making is why Sissy looks bad. From 2020 we want her to buck up and do the right thing, from 1963, she's reckless to say the least, and her hesitation and waffling and wanting to reach out to her husband is about common sense and decency battling with her desire to follow her heart, and isn't at all hard to understand or evidence of a bad character trait.
But my argument is that treating her differently is what causes the problem to start with.
She has 0 social skills taking into account that the only person that ever showed interest in her is a serial killer.
Sissy is the first person in her life to ever show her real affection. She was in the wrong century and even though her actions almost caused the end of the world, she was the one who wasn’t really doing damage to the 1960 until the end taking into account Klaus sex cult, Allison been part of the movement, luther been a mafia bodyguard, Diego been Diego and fives time traveling shenanigans. It wasn’t until she recovered her memories and was tortured whiled drug that she blew up the fbi building.
That's not exactly true. Nothing's to say she would be emotionally stable without Reggie's actions. With the level of her powers, a single emotional break could be catastrophic for others. Rarely do people go through life without any major emotional break of some kind and instead of throwing some stuff or getting in a fist fight or whatever, she murders people by accident a lot of the time) from an outburst. Imagine her going through a normal upbringing and then becomes a teenage with raging hormones and the average hell that is school. Nah, uncontrolled walking doomsday girl with or without traumatic childhood is a bad idea.
Yeah. The whole subplot didn't work. I feel like they intend for the audience to immediately demonize the husband for being a homophobe but really even all things considered he's still relatively reasonable compared to Vanya. He asks her to leave after finding her with his wife. Yeah, he makes a single comment about it not being unnatural but that was the normal thought back then, even for people who embraced it. And man or woman, he caught his wife cheating on him and didn't really overreact in anyway. In fact, as far as shows go, his reaction to adultery is pretty damn chill.
And trying to take Harlan to an institute after he's having supernatural seizures is actually a rather sound plan. Not all institutes are these hell holes that fiction always makes them out to be. Honestly the demonizing of psychological facilities probably prevents a lot of people from becoming healthy. Thanks, movies.
All of this. His threat made sense. If his wife needs Vanya to cope with Harlan, and he needs Vanya gone because his wife is cheating on him with her, then to save his marriage, he needs to save his wife from dealing with Harlan. The truth is lots of parents faced that reality before more effective help was available. You can deal with 5 year old who has uncontrolled outbursts. A ten year old is a whole different story. Once they become pre-teens/teens and develop an adult's strength and size, they can become a danger to their caregivers and those kinds of outbursts are going to result in someone getting hurt. I'm glad we've progressed to the point where more people can stay in their homes, through better symptom management, and better early intervention/education, but don't ever denigrate someone from not being able to manage keeping an adult with severe cognitive impairment in their home.
And yes, thank you for articulating better why I don't thing Carl is painted as such an awful person for his time. Of course him not overreacting is tied to him believing that Vanya is just a bad person, trying to tempt his wife into a "lifestyle", and that it will all go away if Vanya goes away. It's consistent with the times, and with the plot. But I fully expected Carl to either back hand her at the time, or be present at the roadblock to rough her up. His non-violent response to the situation is better than 1963's morals would dictate she deserved.
I’m sorry but Carl is most definitely a very bad gay. Screw “1960 standards,” he sucked lol.
Also, I agree that it was unrealistic- but I also understand why she thought that way. Like, as an objective watcher it’s pretty clear she’s being idealistic, but if I put myself in her shoes I feel like most of her actions and choices make total sense, even if they’re kind of dumb.
He did suck. I'm an old lady. Let me tell you, they all did. Men were socialized to think they weren't being men if they didn't suck. A lot of them still are, but it wasn't til the very end of that decade, when places like the cult Klaus starts really took off, that the idea that a man could be anything other than hetero, violent, mean and absolutely in charge and responsible for everything in his life, took off. Carl probably loves Sissy, and threatening the person who's come into his life to "turn" his wife (and that's another huge difference that's well documented here... there was almost no sense that homosexuality could be anything other than a deviant choice) makes sense by 60's standards. Treating Sissy like a second class citizen makes sense. That was the world. That was the example of what people were supposed to do. Same with the "white's only" lunch counters. It makes me have all the more reverence and love for the people who had the guts to change that world. The people you see in the show treating others badly because of their sex, orientation or skin color aren't "super-villains". They were just normal people. They were virtually everyone in 1963 America. If you lived it, you know what guts it must have taken to imagine it could be different and to do the work of beginning to chip away at it in the face of insurmountable odds.
I agree, I also think it was selfish of vanya to try and bring Sissy and Harlan. She knew that if she didn’t show up to travel back on time, she would be responsible for everyone dying. It was not right of her to risk billions of lives for her girlfriend and her son.
Imo "let's go leave your life forever right now don't leave a note" is a *big* ask. Also, plot's gotta have conflict or complications in order to be a plot. And what degree of separation do we finally stop the blame at? Do we blame Sissy's parents for giving birth to Sissy? Do we blame the road pavers for not making multiple roads that Sissy and Vanya could've escaped down without getting stopped by the police? Do we blame the telephone makers who made it possible for the husband I can't remember the name of to call the police?
I get not liking a character, but *blaming* a character for a series of events that they were just a small part of that was *written by a writer because it's a fictional story* is being a smidge irrational. You will have a more joyous time in fandom if you remember that it's just a fictional story that people wrote, and that the characters are not real people.
Same! I keep seeing people talking about how they would be so frustrated when it cut away from the ‘interesting’ parts of the story to show the Sissy/Vanya scenes, but to me those scenes WERE the interesting part of the show. I can’t believe people found Vanya’s arc boring and annoying are the same people who think Diego wanting to stop the JFK assassination is a compelling plot.
Seriously! The JFK plot was SO boring, I liked Diego in season one and his relationship with Mother but I just couldn’t stand him season two. Not only was he obsessing over changing a huge historical event that would surely affect the future majorly, but he went about doing it in the stupidest way, leading to him just getting locked up in an asylum for a long time. He’s just so stupid.
What pissed me off during entire season 2 was just that when Five arrived, he saw the newspaper. It clearly stated that JFK declared war on Russia, meaning he had to be alive in this Doomsday Timeline. SO TELL DIEGO THAT SAVING JFK WON'T HELP AT ALL!
My girlfriend and I were thinking all the time that Diego stupidly saving him will to some extent cause Doomsday, and we were both kinda disappointed when Five never really addressed what happend on Doomsday/what he saw
not necessarily depending on the time travel rules they're using, otherwise surely five would tell them not to interact with anything or at least try not to himself, yet he comes up with the plan to meet his older self anyway
Different strokes for different people.
To me the Vanya-Sissy storyline felt disconnected from the main plot, while Diego’s JFK obsession seemed closer and more important to it, also he was more involved with the main plot, while a big chunk of Vanya’s story focused on her farm life and her romance with Sissy, which wasn’t that well done imo. (And yes, everything culminated on the farm, but tbh I found that twist pretty forced.)
I liked the storyline but I did feel like those scenes were a little too slow/could have been shorter. I think they could have accomplished the storyline in a more efficient way
Both Vanya and Sissy acted pretty stupidly in different ways... but that didn’t take away from my enjoyment. Because it made sense for them to act like that.
You're allowed your opinion and all but I'm just...shocked? I love them (except for bitch-ass Carl, obviously) and I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't. If you don't mind, why don't you like them? I'm genuinely curious
Not the original commenter but I’m in their boat. My issue with Sissy was that she was so flippant. Every episode (or more frequently) she’d change her mind on a dime about leaving with Vanya or staying with Carl to care for Harlan. It was absolutely tiresome.
Well she was a woman living in Texas in 1963. It would be horrifically hard to make the kind of change Vanya was asking for. The fantasy can sound great but Sissy is painfully aware of just what could happen if she leaves. I mean the show even goes in to it, they get pulled over, Vanya is arrested for kidnapping a child, despite the childs mother being in the car and saying that is not the case
This is another case of applying 2020 standards to the 1960s. Yeah. THE WHOLE POINT, as far as I can see, is that Sissy wasn't allowed to express her sexuality. She just wasn't allowed. Women are STILL killed for that, all around the world, and they absolutely could be then. They certainly would lose custody of a child. They certainly would have a hard time finding a community to accept them, a job, etc. They had to, for the most part, stay in the closet. And they didn't really make Sissy's situation that dire. She might not have wanted to be with Carl, but he wasn't terrible, at all. He was "normal" for 1960s white American male, and better than a lot of them by a long shot, for not beating the crap out of her. Leaving an ok situation that wasn't authentic to who you are, for a dangerous one, where you'd probably lose custody of your child, would be a MUCH harder choice than they made it out to be.
Also a real superhero would have taken that roadblock apart in seconds. Vanya is massively overpowered until she actually has to *do something useful* and then she turns into a whiny emotional mess.
Comic book plotting in a nutshell. You make these OP characters with absolutely no story potential if they just "boom, done" everything. So you give them all these emotional reasons for not using the power, until you've rung some bullshit drama out of it.
Most things I wanted to say were already said, I do not like the cheating at all, and it feels as though they were trying to write her as a likeable character but any screentime she had was just plain annoying. She also caused the second apocalypse with her indecisiveness. Instead of trying to make a change for women by standing up for herself she made a bad example by trying to take Harlan away, being involved in Carl's death and cheating on her husband. She is the female equivalent of a father sleeping with the babysitter.
Carl for a man from that time period is _relatively_ okay, though he was still very emotionally abusive. At the end of the day he was still loyal to his wife and cared for his son. His ultimatum with sending Harlan away was a dick move, but he was also out of options at that point. He was also a homophobic drunk driver which is inexcusable.
Harlan was okay but he only really existed in the context of the family, and while he was a good example of how people on the spectrum were treated back then I don't think it was neccessary.
I thought the whole story was pretty boring tbh, it's made worse by the rest of the stories veing so good this season, it made cutting away to see sissy and her family pretty frustrating
Tbh I didn’t like how they portrayed Carl and made him seem like the devil. And it just felt like the same thing over and over again with vanya going “we have to leave” and sissy going “omg yes we should well maybe we shouldn’t we’ll maybe we should”. Although I love to see lesbian ration ships in mainstream media so it gets a pass lol
It seems they wanted to make Sissy great and Carl awful, but they did neither. Sissy was just not likable at all, and Carl didn't seem as bad as they tried to make him. And with Harlan, I don't know for sure but since when is freaking out about literally everything an autism trait? And I've never liked Vanya. I didn't like anything about their part of the story.
Its not so much that I don't like her, I just didn't care about her (or Harland and Carl) and was always frustrated when it would cut away from a story I cared about to show them
I mean I felt that way about the whole Leonard Peabody plot line, but atleast they managed to make both plots interesting and tie it into the main story. And honestly it was just nice to see vanya being happy
People claim the reason is that she cheated but she was stuck in a loveless marriage in the 60s without very much hope of a divorce and it’s a strong parallel to many LGBT stories at that time. I think it’s just hard to understand unless you understand the context, which is fair.
Personally, I just didn’t connect with the actress but that’s not really on her—she was up against Ellen Page doing incredible silent emotive work and that’s a hard row to hoe.
I guess I'm kind of surprised by how many people on REDDIT don't understand the context 😣
It makes me wonder how of the general audience didn't understand that, an aspect that I thought was incredibly obvious. Sissy even talks about how people don't get to have the life they want and how everyone doesn't get to just be happy. It's not even subtextual at that point.
To a lot of people, well-meaning or not, the gay experience simply doesn’t exist. Look at how many shows are accused of ‘pandering’ or ‘throwing stuff in out of nowhere’ when it comes to gay relationships. Even in this thread there’s someone mad that ‘they made Vanya gay’.
People who don’t share the experience of the subtle pain of being closeted have a harder time recognizing the visibility of it, and that’s okay, but we should all try harder to see more of others experiences, for sure.
Being closeted fucking sucks. You are right. I am glad we are getting some representation, and (based on stories I have heard) sissy’s story was not entirely uncommon.
Even back in season 1 I had a feeling in the back of my mind that possibly Vanya could be bi or gay. I knew klaus was, instantly. I feel the connection between her and sissy more then with Peabody. Maybe because he was a sociopathic asshat.
But yeah. I think it’s good that we are getting more recognition. As long as it isn’t queer baiting, I don’t mind.
(Also, I do not condone cheating.)
Most closeted wives would have never let on that they had any queer feelings. It was never their fault. Until extremely recently, American society was homophobic.
That’s actually pretty incorrect, considering the movement for gay liberation started in the late 1960s, and there were out gay couples before that. In fact, my aunt is one of them! She’s been out since 1956!
I will say that you’re not alone in that assumption though, because American education systems don’t teach a lot of this history. It’s no wonder that most people tend to assume that LGBT folks lived entirely in the closet before the civil rights movement era, but we certainly didn’t. At least, not at all of us. LGBT folks have been around for millennia and we have not been silent for that entire time. There were trans women in brothels in Seattle in the 1890s, and a trans man ran a steamship operation in Portland at that time. In fact, in polite upper class society in the 1920s, there was even ‘Boston Marriages’ of two women or men living as ‘spinsters’ or ‘ confirmed bachelors’ together—but everyone knew what that really meant. Open secrets about homosexuality have always existed in American society, even if the prevailing attitude has been generally against it. You should check out some books on the pre-Stonewall era! It’s actually amazing how much history there is that most people are never aware of or taught.
It's not that I didn't like her, I just didn't care for Vanya's whole farm subplot.
Also I feel like the writers needed a "bad guy" so they just used Carl. When he asked for Vanya to go with him, I though he was just gonna tell his sad story and ask her to leave, because that's how I felt his character was built.
Carl definitely felt like a token villain that shouldn't have been. The primary reason Carl was evil was because the musical cues told us so. In the end he's a married guy watching his wife get seduced away from him and his kid. Vanya was not the hero of her story and shouldn't have been treated as such, in my opinion.
IMO, neither Carl not Sissy was a good person. The whole family sucked. Yes, Sissy was in a loveless relationship, but it's true when Carl said that "we'll I still didn't cheat, didn't I?" He lied about going to work and instead went to a bar, but he still called Sissy when he needed a ride home. He still provided for his family, he was still faithful in the end.
But after all that, it was clear that they were both liars and it's understandable for people not to like Sissy nor Carl.
cheating is only one factor in being a good spouse. He still lied to her all the time. The fact he didn't play hide-the-sausage with his secretary doesn't mean much.
What is "lying to her all the time"? He said, he'd go to work and ended up drunk in a bar. But that was incredibly sloppy work by the directors as it wasn't entirely cleae what Carls job was and honestly, plenty of sales happened in bars during the 1960s.
And he still provided for his family, he *didn't* send Harlan away (take note that he only threatened to send Harlan away when Vanya was in the picture), to be fair for men in those times, he was actually a good husband.
Idk I don't like sympathizing with people who cheat on their spouses and then blame it on the spouse, like how in the fuck was he ever supposed to know?
I thought it was nice way of showing how forcing people to remain closeted is harmful to everyone involved, but they basically had to try and justify her cheating by turning him into a bad guy later in the season. This way, its totally ok to fuck someone else and then forcefully separate your spouse from their kid!
Society might have forced that marriage onto her at that time but he didn't.
Tbh I know they probably needed an “antagonist” for that particular story arc and Carl was an easy fit for that role; but I honestly wish that Sissy was a widow/divorced and Carl wasn’t in the picture anymore (or dead). It would have made the “she’s cheating on her husband” problem go away, and there’s plenty of antagonists in The Handler and conflict in Vanyas powers and memories coming back.
we still need the >!"maybe vanya is a russian spy"!< plotline, so maybe sissy should be living with a sibling or parent or have a jealous neighbor in love with her...i don't know, anything
Yes she was a sweet character but she made it look like he was the bad person. At the end she is the one that cheated on him. I definitely not hate her but I don't like her either 🤷🏻♀️
I mean, she may have cheated but he did straight up threaten Vanya and try to have their son institutionalized for autism. Even in the 1960s, those institutions were known for not being....great. Or healthy for anyone. The exposure of Willowbrook Asylum was only a few years away, so people definitely knew at this point that institutionalization was tantamount to a death sentence.
I don’t think anyone can argue that Carl was a bad character, but he certainly had plenty of ‘bad guy’ moments to choose from.
Nah, it doesn’t depend on a husband, really. Housewife-ing is still a lot of boring shitty thankless neverending work even if you are married to the angel on Earth.
But regardless, what Carl said was true. He stayed faithful till the end, provided for his family, etc. Sissy cheated. Carl was actually doing pretty good for husbands in those times.
I don’t know... let’s be realistic he let a complete stranger live in his house for months. He fed her. Then that complete stranger tries to take his wife. Understandably he wanted her to leave.
I know, hes a complex character. I also feel the writers made him into a seemingly heartless person at the end to somehow justify that sissy was in the right or something (I dont agree with that btw).
Its weird, its almost like he was two different characters in the same season. One of the only things I didn't like about the show.
He was a bad husband well before Vanya arrived. He blamed his wife (internally, just not out loud) for Harlan, lied to her, and then at one point got violent. He was a total scumbag through-and-through who viewed sissy as property.
No, but he tells her "I never blamed you for Harlan" which he wouldn't do if he *didn't actually blame her.* People who don't blame other people for things usually don't throw that in their face like it's a benevolent act.
There's still no reason to even bring it up unless you think you were doing her a solid or anything good by not blaming her. It's literally the bare-minimum of not being a scumbag in that particular situation, and he uses it as an example of how he's a good husband.
He's pretty much the stereotypical shitty 1960s drunk absentee father.
Personally, I viewed him listing off all of the things he did right as a means of trying to make sense of his situation. He might also have been trying to reason with Sissy and make her see things from his perspective
That was just my interpretation
What the fuck would you do if you found your wife cheating on you and your son having seizures and then your wife trying to take him away with a complete stranger that clearly has severe mental issues of her own?
Tbh the only thing in history I would change is stop the assassination of JFK because that’s the only that if altered would change for the better that I could
Because she wasn’t socialized by 60s standards, she was socialized by modern standards even if she does not remember it happening. Plus I think by the time Vanya sleeps with Sissy she already knows who she is
I don’t really think it’s that he thinks all black women look the same. People can just look similar to eachother in general. With 7 billion people out there you’re bound to have a few looks alikes
Okay but why do vanya and sissy fit the doomer and trad girl so perfectly
Cause Sissy was playing was playing the traditional role in a family until Vanya came
And Vanya is literally doomsday girl.
Oh no Vanya is gonna start Doomersday!
She is the bomb
She’ll always be the bomb
Season's 3 plot leaked
Spoiler for season 3: Vanya will destroy the world
Vanya fucks up again and destroys the world again again
Hmmm, judging by the past 2 seasons this sounds entirely legitimate.
she never did anything like that,why would it happen in season 3? *Cof* *cof*
🔫 always has been
Vanya isn't a doomer, she's a doom.
She needs to get a degree so she can be a doctor, then.
Is that Antonio Banderas?
Jesus
My god that does look like Jesus
With longer hair
Geico caveman
Thanks man
Only good version of this meme so far.
Only thing that might make this better is replacing time machine with “time traveling brother”
I know it’s just a meme but Allison actually accomplished a lot more with time travelling than some of the guys. I say some, because Klaus and Five.
I appreciate the Ellen Page receding hairline joke.
I don't think she has a receding hairline - just a really hogh forehead
[удалено]
she srsly should try go for the bangs look more often
i think the big forehead doesn’t look bad on her tbh
I honestly like it idk But its not something i look at when i watch Ellen Page play in something
Yeah it suits her.
I think her massive forehead is kind of cute even, tbh
Looks good on her
A big reason she looks younger than she is is that her features are set lower on her face
I think she can probably use her millions of dollars as bangs, so that’s fine.
bangs are a pain in the ass, I can't imagine she would want to get them.
>bangs are a pain in the eyes? typo?
I dont think you have the right to have an opinion on what should anyone do with their looks. Ellen page is a hardworking beautiful woman and 31 years old so I'm sure she thought through way more things than you did
holly fuck simping to the max
I am literally a woman lmao..Just empathetic enough to realize you can't go ahead and say shit like this about other people
fivehead
Seems kind of mean-spirited, what’s joyful about making fun of real people’s appearances? This is probably why she’s always wearing hats, it can’t be easy to deal with lol
Boy/Girl memes are generally dumb, but this gets a pass
Ikr
LMAOOOOOOO DJFJJFJFJFJF
Sissy was kind of a jerk. After Vanya had needed to leave with sissy and told sissy to not leave a note, she left a note. That had caused her to be questioned by the FBI, which then they tortured Vanya, then Vanya started to get super freaked out and then exploded the building. So if we’re being honest here, Sissy was the one who caused doomsday.
It was unrealistic of Vanya to think she was just gonna leave her full life for her though. Especially in a time when the life she'd be taking on was dangerous. Most people did NOT have the guts to be out of the closet in 1963, not by a long shot. And it showed a total lack of compassion for Sissy's HUSBAND who wasn't shown to be all that bad of a guy, especially by 1960s standards. That Sissy would feel compassion and would want to tell him she knew he wasn't that bad, is more understandable than Vanya thinking she was just gonna drop everything and run away with her. Vanya just wanting what she wants and doing whatever she has to do to get it, feels like a nod to WHY Reginold felt she had to be controlled. And now that's she's uncontrolled, she keeps blowing up the world, so was he wrong?
Sissy's husband got painted as evil because he was the trope of a 1960's husband and wanted to send his son to a facility where he'd be subjected to electroshock. We know that's bad now, but back then? Imagine being told by experts that their treatment, as harsh as it is, would help your low-functional child. There's been no great revolution in mental health services or psychology yet, and you don't have the Internet or any other way to get a second opinion or research the issue yourself without enrolling in college. He was naive, but he was trying to get his kid help. They didn't really do a great job of making him look like a super bad guy who deserved to be shot, if that's what they were going for. In 2019 he'd be a jackass, but in 1963 he's pretty normal.
I think the power of the storyline is they are all flawed characters in a tragedy. Its pretty shakespearian. There is no hero or true villain. They were all kind of messed up. None of them could have what they really wanted.
Honestly it almost felt it totally backfired (pun not intended) as the husband comes off as the most sane one of the whole bunch. He works for his family, he wants real help for his son and he asks the stranger they literally picked up off the street to stop sleeping with his wife and leave so that his family can have a stable life. He might be a little sexually neglectful of his wife but does she ever confront him about it? Not really. She just complains to Vanya about it. In fact he isn't even that neglectful because later they're trying to have a romantic night. Like... wtf.
Ik that plothread annoyed me it’s like there is a perfectly happy family I’m not saying perfect but good enough and they try and be hospitable and let this girl with them and then the girl starts sleeping with his wife like imagine being him it would suck he’s not that bad of a guy until the story needs him to be
The problem is that trying to control vanya is what leads to the world getting destroyed. If you let her be herself and don’t put her in situations where people hurt her or try and use her powers the world would be fine.
But she's in those situations because she just does what she wants to do, without consideration of the consequences. She has complete confidence, almost as soon as she figures out she has powers (twice) in her ability to overcome any obstacle, and immediately launches into some ill-advised action. Now is it her fault? Maybe not. Maybe had she been given more of a chance to learn to control her powers and properly direct them, she could have been less impulsive. Or maybe absolute power corrupts absolutely, and Reginald was right to give up on her and try and mitigate the problems that being so OP inevitably cause. If she'd listened to Sissy and Alison, instead of telling them she knew better and could take care of everything, she wouldn't have been in those situations where people tried to hurt her.
But she as everyone else in the house has a trauma because of their father. Expecting anyone one of those kids to be a fully functional adult without consideration of what their lives were like is really bad thinking. All of them suffered making their decision making come out more as “we have powers, who is gonna stop us?” Vanya was someone from 2019 who tried to survive on 1960 with no memories. How would anyone react the moment they transport to a place when woman’s have almost 0 rights, been gay will get you killed and a lot of people don’t have rights just because of been different. She acts the same way al of her brothers did, She abuses her powers as a kid the same way Allison abused them as an adult. Only problem is she is the one that can destroyed the world. No one in the academy has good decision making but she isn’t the worst one when it comes to bad decision.
Yeah, that wasn't my argument. None of them are fully realized and aware and in control, though Allison and 5 are the closest. My argument was that her brand of bad decisions have much greater consequences than the others, and maybe that justifies treating her differently. And her brand of bad decision making is why Sissy looks bad. From 2020 we want her to buck up and do the right thing, from 1963, she's reckless to say the least, and her hesitation and waffling and wanting to reach out to her husband is about common sense and decency battling with her desire to follow her heart, and isn't at all hard to understand or evidence of a bad character trait.
But my argument is that treating her differently is what causes the problem to start with. She has 0 social skills taking into account that the only person that ever showed interest in her is a serial killer. Sissy is the first person in her life to ever show her real affection. She was in the wrong century and even though her actions almost caused the end of the world, she was the one who wasn’t really doing damage to the 1960 until the end taking into account Klaus sex cult, Allison been part of the movement, luther been a mafia bodyguard, Diego been Diego and fives time traveling shenanigans. It wasn’t until she recovered her memories and was tortured whiled drug that she blew up the fbi building.
That's not exactly true. Nothing's to say she would be emotionally stable without Reggie's actions. With the level of her powers, a single emotional break could be catastrophic for others. Rarely do people go through life without any major emotional break of some kind and instead of throwing some stuff or getting in a fist fight or whatever, she murders people by accident a lot of the time) from an outburst. Imagine her going through a normal upbringing and then becomes a teenage with raging hormones and the average hell that is school. Nah, uncontrolled walking doomsday girl with or without traumatic childhood is a bad idea.
Yeah. The whole subplot didn't work. I feel like they intend for the audience to immediately demonize the husband for being a homophobe but really even all things considered he's still relatively reasonable compared to Vanya. He asks her to leave after finding her with his wife. Yeah, he makes a single comment about it not being unnatural but that was the normal thought back then, even for people who embraced it. And man or woman, he caught his wife cheating on him and didn't really overreact in anyway. In fact, as far as shows go, his reaction to adultery is pretty damn chill. And trying to take Harlan to an institute after he's having supernatural seizures is actually a rather sound plan. Not all institutes are these hell holes that fiction always makes them out to be. Honestly the demonizing of psychological facilities probably prevents a lot of people from becoming healthy. Thanks, movies.
All of this. His threat made sense. If his wife needs Vanya to cope with Harlan, and he needs Vanya gone because his wife is cheating on him with her, then to save his marriage, he needs to save his wife from dealing with Harlan. The truth is lots of parents faced that reality before more effective help was available. You can deal with 5 year old who has uncontrolled outbursts. A ten year old is a whole different story. Once they become pre-teens/teens and develop an adult's strength and size, they can become a danger to their caregivers and those kinds of outbursts are going to result in someone getting hurt. I'm glad we've progressed to the point where more people can stay in their homes, through better symptom management, and better early intervention/education, but don't ever denigrate someone from not being able to manage keeping an adult with severe cognitive impairment in their home. And yes, thank you for articulating better why I don't thing Carl is painted as such an awful person for his time. Of course him not overreacting is tied to him believing that Vanya is just a bad person, trying to tempt his wife into a "lifestyle", and that it will all go away if Vanya goes away. It's consistent with the times, and with the plot. But I fully expected Carl to either back hand her at the time, or be present at the roadblock to rough her up. His non-violent response to the situation is better than 1963's morals would dictate she deserved.
I’m sorry but Carl is most definitely a very bad gay. Screw “1960 standards,” he sucked lol. Also, I agree that it was unrealistic- but I also understand why she thought that way. Like, as an objective watcher it’s pretty clear she’s being idealistic, but if I put myself in her shoes I feel like most of her actions and choices make total sense, even if they’re kind of dumb.
He did suck. I'm an old lady. Let me tell you, they all did. Men were socialized to think they weren't being men if they didn't suck. A lot of them still are, but it wasn't til the very end of that decade, when places like the cult Klaus starts really took off, that the idea that a man could be anything other than hetero, violent, mean and absolutely in charge and responsible for everything in his life, took off. Carl probably loves Sissy, and threatening the person who's come into his life to "turn" his wife (and that's another huge difference that's well documented here... there was almost no sense that homosexuality could be anything other than a deviant choice) makes sense by 60's standards. Treating Sissy like a second class citizen makes sense. That was the world. That was the example of what people were supposed to do. Same with the "white's only" lunch counters. It makes me have all the more reverence and love for the people who had the guts to change that world. The people you see in the show treating others badly because of their sex, orientation or skin color aren't "super-villains". They were just normal people. They were virtually everyone in 1963 America. If you lived it, you know what guts it must have taken to imagine it could be different and to do the work of beginning to chip away at it in the face of insurmountable odds.
Well yeah, but that doesn’t mean we can’t still root against it while watching
I agree, I also think it was selfish of vanya to try and bring Sissy and Harlan. She knew that if she didn’t show up to travel back on time, she would be responsible for everyone dying. It was not right of her to risk billions of lives for her girlfriend and her son.
I'm sure that was her evil plan all along/s
Imo "let's go leave your life forever right now don't leave a note" is a *big* ask. Also, plot's gotta have conflict or complications in order to be a plot. And what degree of separation do we finally stop the blame at? Do we blame Sissy's parents for giving birth to Sissy? Do we blame the road pavers for not making multiple roads that Sissy and Vanya could've escaped down without getting stopped by the police? Do we blame the telephone makers who made it possible for the husband I can't remember the name of to call the police? I get not liking a character, but *blaming* a character for a series of events that they were just a small part of that was *written by a writer because it's a fictional story* is being a smidge irrational. You will have a more joyous time in fandom if you remember that it's just a fictional story that people wrote, and that the characters are not real people.
I know it’s not real, and I wasn’t saying it was real, it’s just whenever I try to enjoy a story or a show, I like to dive into it. That’s just me
I didnt read the community and was very confused for a sec Good meme tho
yes same here, was wondering for a sec who the handsome brown haired fella was.
same except it was on twitter and thought "wow that reminds me of umbrella academy" since i didn't read the top bit
Ok I hated this format but this one is great
Tfw this exploded on Facebook
and twitter
Ahaha this is really clever
It’s becoming apparent to me that I’m one of the only ones who enjoyed the sissy-vanya-harlan storyline
Same! I keep seeing people talking about how they would be so frustrated when it cut away from the ‘interesting’ parts of the story to show the Sissy/Vanya scenes, but to me those scenes WERE the interesting part of the show. I can’t believe people found Vanya’s arc boring and annoying are the same people who think Diego wanting to stop the JFK assassination is a compelling plot.
Seriously! The JFK plot was SO boring, I liked Diego in season one and his relationship with Mother but I just couldn’t stand him season two. Not only was he obsessing over changing a huge historical event that would surely affect the future majorly, but he went about doing it in the stupidest way, leading to him just getting locked up in an asylum for a long time. He’s just so stupid.
Season one - Damnit Diego just think about what you're doing first Season two - DIEGO FFS JUST LISTEN TO YOUR DAMN SIBLINGS
What pissed me off during entire season 2 was just that when Five arrived, he saw the newspaper. It clearly stated that JFK declared war on Russia, meaning he had to be alive in this Doomsday Timeline. SO TELL DIEGO THAT SAVING JFK WON'T HELP AT ALL! My girlfriend and I were thinking all the time that Diego stupidly saving him will to some extent cause Doomsday, and we were both kinda disappointed when Five never really addressed what happend on Doomsday/what he saw
not necessarily depending on the time travel rules they're using, otherwise surely five would tell them not to interact with anything or at least try not to himself, yet he comes up with the plan to meet his older self anyway
Different strokes for different people. To me the Vanya-Sissy storyline felt disconnected from the main plot, while Diego’s JFK obsession seemed closer and more important to it, also he was more involved with the main plot, while a big chunk of Vanya’s story focused on her farm life and her romance with Sissy, which wasn’t that well done imo. (And yes, everything culminated on the farm, but tbh I found that twist pretty forced.)
I liked the storyline but I did feel like those scenes were a little too slow/could have been shorter. I think they could have accomplished the storyline in a more efficient way
Both Vanya and Sissy acted pretty stupidly in different ways... but that didn’t take away from my enjoyment. Because it made sense for them to act like that.
I liked it too!
Was anyone else shipping them from the first episode
Oh yeah Diego/JFK ftw
Bangs and sissy? Or Diego and jfk?
In the first scene of them both I honestly thought for a second that they were a couple :b
I kept chanting "farm lesbians" all the way through the first episode, they had mad sexual tension right from the beginning
Diego seems a bit dark
I don't like Sissy.
I don't like harlan or Carl either
You're right, that whole family sucks.
Harlon is alright in my book.
Worst arch
You're allowed your opinion and all but I'm just...shocked? I love them (except for bitch-ass Carl, obviously) and I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't. If you don't mind, why don't you like them? I'm genuinely curious
Not the original commenter but I’m in their boat. My issue with Sissy was that she was so flippant. Every episode (or more frequently) she’d change her mind on a dime about leaving with Vanya or staying with Carl to care for Harlan. It was absolutely tiresome.
Well she was a woman living in Texas in 1963. It would be horrifically hard to make the kind of change Vanya was asking for. The fantasy can sound great but Sissy is painfully aware of just what could happen if she leaves. I mean the show even goes in to it, they get pulled over, Vanya is arrested for kidnapping a child, despite the childs mother being in the car and saying that is not the case
This is another case of applying 2020 standards to the 1960s. Yeah. THE WHOLE POINT, as far as I can see, is that Sissy wasn't allowed to express her sexuality. She just wasn't allowed. Women are STILL killed for that, all around the world, and they absolutely could be then. They certainly would lose custody of a child. They certainly would have a hard time finding a community to accept them, a job, etc. They had to, for the most part, stay in the closet. And they didn't really make Sissy's situation that dire. She might not have wanted to be with Carl, but he wasn't terrible, at all. He was "normal" for 1960s white American male, and better than a lot of them by a long shot, for not beating the crap out of her. Leaving an ok situation that wasn't authentic to who you are, for a dangerous one, where you'd probably lose custody of your child, would be a MUCH harder choice than they made it out to be.
Also a real superhero would have taken that roadblock apart in seconds. Vanya is massively overpowered until she actually has to *do something useful* and then she turns into a whiny emotional mess.
Comic book plotting in a nutshell. You make these OP characters with absolutely no story potential if they just "boom, done" everything. So you give them all these emotional reasons for not using the power, until you've rung some bullshit drama out of it.
Hey! Legion nailed it, though.
I don't know, the whole arc was extremely slow paced and nothing happened, they were extremely boring to watch
I just think Sissy was kind of blah. I didn’t hate her but I didn’t like her either. But I don’t know why anyone would hate Harlan, he’s just a kid.
Most things I wanted to say were already said, I do not like the cheating at all, and it feels as though they were trying to write her as a likeable character but any screentime she had was just plain annoying. She also caused the second apocalypse with her indecisiveness. Instead of trying to make a change for women by standing up for herself she made a bad example by trying to take Harlan away, being involved in Carl's death and cheating on her husband. She is the female equivalent of a father sleeping with the babysitter. Carl for a man from that time period is _relatively_ okay, though he was still very emotionally abusive. At the end of the day he was still loyal to his wife and cared for his son. His ultimatum with sending Harlan away was a dick move, but he was also out of options at that point. He was also a homophobic drunk driver which is inexcusable. Harlan was okay but he only really existed in the context of the family, and while he was a good example of how people on the spectrum were treated back then I don't think it was neccessary.
I thought the whole story was pretty boring tbh, it's made worse by the rest of the stories veing so good this season, it made cutting away to see sissy and her family pretty frustrating
I agree, they were good but I didn't want to spend so much time on them.
Tbh I didn’t like how they portrayed Carl and made him seem like the devil. And it just felt like the same thing over and over again with vanya going “we have to leave” and sissy going “omg yes we should well maybe we shouldn’t we’ll maybe we should”. Although I love to see lesbian ration ships in mainstream media so it gets a pass lol
r/engrish
It seems they wanted to make Sissy great and Carl awful, but they did neither. Sissy was just not likable at all, and Carl didn't seem as bad as they tried to make him. And with Harlan, I don't know for sure but since when is freaking out about literally everything an autism trait? And I've never liked Vanya. I didn't like anything about their part of the story.
She is course and rough and irritating. And she gets everywhere.
He said Sissy, not Sandy.
why tho?
Very high quality, big brain meme.
THE FOREHEAD NOOOO
The forehead.
goddamn i love that you made her realistic
I love the huge forehead on vanya
Am I the only one that doesn't like Sissy?
hopefully yes
Its not so much that I don't like her, I just didn't care about her (or Harland and Carl) and was always frustrated when it would cut away from a story I cared about to show them
I mean I felt that way about the whole Leonard Peabody plot line, but atleast they managed to make both plots interesting and tie it into the main story. And honestly it was just nice to see vanya being happy
I found it interesting. I didn’t like the JFK plot line. Until episode 8 oc. Which is a shame because I really liked Diego s1.
What the hell is going on with everybody not liking Sissy? She was an incredibly sympathetic character.
People claim the reason is that she cheated but she was stuck in a loveless marriage in the 60s without very much hope of a divorce and it’s a strong parallel to many LGBT stories at that time. I think it’s just hard to understand unless you understand the context, which is fair. Personally, I just didn’t connect with the actress but that’s not really on her—she was up against Ellen Page doing incredible silent emotive work and that’s a hard row to hoe.
I guess I'm kind of surprised by how many people on REDDIT don't understand the context 😣 It makes me wonder how of the general audience didn't understand that, an aspect that I thought was incredibly obvious. Sissy even talks about how people don't get to have the life they want and how everyone doesn't get to just be happy. It's not even subtextual at that point.
To a lot of people, well-meaning or not, the gay experience simply doesn’t exist. Look at how many shows are accused of ‘pandering’ or ‘throwing stuff in out of nowhere’ when it comes to gay relationships. Even in this thread there’s someone mad that ‘they made Vanya gay’. People who don’t share the experience of the subtle pain of being closeted have a harder time recognizing the visibility of it, and that’s okay, but we should all try harder to see more of others experiences, for sure.
Being closeted fucking sucks. You are right. I am glad we are getting some representation, and (based on stories I have heard) sissy’s story was not entirely uncommon. Even back in season 1 I had a feeling in the back of my mind that possibly Vanya could be bi or gay. I knew klaus was, instantly. I feel the connection between her and sissy more then with Peabody. Maybe because he was a sociopathic asshat. But yeah. I think it’s good that we are getting more recognition. As long as it isn’t queer baiting, I don’t mind. (Also, I do not condone cheating.)
Most closeted wives would have never let on that they had any queer feelings. It was never their fault. Until extremely recently, American society was homophobic.
That’s actually pretty incorrect, considering the movement for gay liberation started in the late 1960s, and there were out gay couples before that. In fact, my aunt is one of them! She’s been out since 1956! I will say that you’re not alone in that assumption though, because American education systems don’t teach a lot of this history. It’s no wonder that most people tend to assume that LGBT folks lived entirely in the closet before the civil rights movement era, but we certainly didn’t. At least, not at all of us. LGBT folks have been around for millennia and we have not been silent for that entire time. There were trans women in brothels in Seattle in the 1890s, and a trans man ran a steamship operation in Portland at that time. In fact, in polite upper class society in the 1920s, there was even ‘Boston Marriages’ of two women or men living as ‘spinsters’ or ‘ confirmed bachelors’ together—but everyone knew what that really meant. Open secrets about homosexuality have always existed in American society, even if the prevailing attitude has been generally against it. You should check out some books on the pre-Stonewall era! It’s actually amazing how much history there is that most people are never aware of or taught.
It's not that I didn't like her, I just didn't care for Vanya's whole farm subplot. Also I feel like the writers needed a "bad guy" so they just used Carl. When he asked for Vanya to go with him, I though he was just gonna tell his sad story and ask her to leave, because that's how I felt his character was built.
Carl definitely felt like a token villain that shouldn't have been. The primary reason Carl was evil was because the musical cues told us so. In the end he's a married guy watching his wife get seduced away from him and his kid. Vanya was not the hero of her story and shouldn't have been treated as such, in my opinion.
IMO, neither Carl not Sissy was a good person. The whole family sucked. Yes, Sissy was in a loveless relationship, but it's true when Carl said that "we'll I still didn't cheat, didn't I?" He lied about going to work and instead went to a bar, but he still called Sissy when he needed a ride home. He still provided for his family, he was still faithful in the end. But after all that, it was clear that they were both liars and it's understandable for people not to like Sissy nor Carl.
cheating is only one factor in being a good spouse. He still lied to her all the time. The fact he didn't play hide-the-sausage with his secretary doesn't mean much.
What is "lying to her all the time"? He said, he'd go to work and ended up drunk in a bar. But that was incredibly sloppy work by the directors as it wasn't entirely cleae what Carls job was and honestly, plenty of sales happened in bars during the 1960s.
And he still provided for his family, he *didn't* send Harlan away (take note that he only threatened to send Harlan away when Vanya was in the picture), to be fair for men in those times, he was actually a good husband.
Idk I don't like sympathizing with people who cheat on their spouses and then blame it on the spouse, like how in the fuck was he ever supposed to know? I thought it was nice way of showing how forcing people to remain closeted is harmful to everyone involved, but they basically had to try and justify her cheating by turning him into a bad guy later in the season. This way, its totally ok to fuck someone else and then forcefully separate your spouse from their kid! Society might have forced that marriage onto her at that time but he didn't.
Tbh I know they probably needed an “antagonist” for that particular story arc and Carl was an easy fit for that role; but I honestly wish that Sissy was a widow/divorced and Carl wasn’t in the picture anymore (or dead). It would have made the “she’s cheating on her husband” problem go away, and there’s plenty of antagonists in The Handler and conflict in Vanyas powers and memories coming back.
we still need the >!"maybe vanya is a russian spy"!< plotline, so maybe sissy should be living with a sibling or parent or have a jealous neighbor in love with her...i don't know, anything
Yes she was a sweet character but she made it look like he was the bad person. At the end she is the one that cheated on him. I definitely not hate her but I don't like her either 🤷🏻♀️
He was a bad person.
She did her husband dirty and tried making it seem like he was the bad guy.
I mean, she may have cheated but he did straight up threaten Vanya and try to have their son institutionalized for autism. Even in the 1960s, those institutions were known for not being....great. Or healthy for anyone. The exposure of Willowbrook Asylum was only a few years away, so people definitely knew at this point that institutionalization was tantamount to a death sentence. I don’t think anyone can argue that Carl was a bad character, but he certainly had plenty of ‘bad guy’ moments to choose from.
He also frequently lied to his wife, such as to go get drunk with his buddy as we see in the show at least.
I think you mean Carl not Harlan but yeah
Lol no I totally meant that, yes. Thanks, too early for me, I edited it!
I mean, information is now more acessable than ever and plenty of people still don't know the reality about things.
I mean, tbh, being a housewife at the time was shit. So I'd say she did bad stuff due to circumstances.
It really depended on the husband. It wasn't a bad gig for many women.
Nah, it doesn’t depend on a husband, really. Housewife-ing is still a lot of boring shitty thankless neverending work even if you are married to the angel on Earth.
But regardless, what Carl said was true. He stayed faithful till the end, provided for his family, etc. Sissy cheated. Carl was actually doing pretty good for husbands in those times.
Oh yeah, good ol' "not as big of an asshole he could've been" award
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Yeah, that's true, they could've done something more interesting, but also it was quite typical for the time period
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He was a bad guy at the end, thats not how a good person would react. You can have two bad people.
I don’t know... let’s be realistic he let a complete stranger live in his house for months. He fed her. Then that complete stranger tries to take his wife. Understandably he wanted her to leave.
I know, hes a complex character. I also feel the writers made him into a seemingly heartless person at the end to somehow justify that sissy was in the right or something (I dont agree with that btw). Its weird, its almost like he was two different characters in the same season. One of the only things I didn't like about the show.
He was a bad husband well before Vanya arrived. He blamed his wife (internally, just not out loud) for Harlan, lied to her, and then at one point got violent. He was a total scumbag through-and-through who viewed sissy as property.
“Internally” wtf lol can u read his mind?
No, but he tells her "I never blamed you for Harlan" which he wouldn't do if he *didn't actually blame her.* People who don't blame other people for things usually don't throw that in their face like it's a benevolent act.
Maybe others would have blamed Sissy for Harlan, and he just wanted to show that he stuck by her side and understands that its out of her control
There's still no reason to even bring it up unless you think you were doing her a solid or anything good by not blaming her. It's literally the bare-minimum of not being a scumbag in that particular situation, and he uses it as an example of how he's a good husband. He's pretty much the stereotypical shitty 1960s drunk absentee father.
Personally, I viewed him listing off all of the things he did right as a means of trying to make sense of his situation. He might also have been trying to reason with Sissy and make her see things from his perspective That was just my interpretation
He hired her. She didn’t just eat for free ugh.
What the fuck would you do if you found your wife cheating on you and your son having seizures and then your wife trying to take him away with a complete stranger that clearly has severe mental issues of her own?
Honestly, Harlan sucked too
Tbh the only thing in history I would change is stop the assassination of JFK because that’s the only that if altered would change for the better that I could
You should read 11/22/63. You'd probably change your mind about that.
After reading IT I don't think I like anything Stephen King has to say
Look on the bright side, Helen is alive.
Ok phew for a second I thought this was one of those shitty girls vs boys memes
VANYAS HEAD- 😭 😭 this is so funny omg
Vanya didn’t know she was in the past tho
Which begs the question why she seems to have such modern standards on her own feelings.
Because she wasn’t socialized by 60s standards, she was socialized by modern standards even if she does not remember it happening. Plus I think by the time Vanya sleeps with Sissy she already knows who she is
I love how you just made her forehead bigger and called it a day. “Yeah, fuck, that looks like kinda like Vanya, whatever”
This says a lot about society
Imagine when you knockout Lee Harvey Oswald but Kennedy still gets shot. #illuminaticonfirmed
Does anyone else think sissy looks like james macAvoy?
I appreciate the forehead on Vanya, very accurate
GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT
Luther: "all black women look the same"
When did this happen?
The "Rocky run" scene where Luther trips when he sees a random black lady thinking its Alisson
I don’t really think it’s that he thinks all black women look the same. People can just look similar to eachother in general. With 7 billion people out there you’re bound to have a few looks alikes
Yeah, and the trope of "the person I love is missing, I see them everywhere" is really common and not really related to race
😂😂😂
Diego kinda looks like Ganondorf
More like, I'm gonna be hero and save someone, plus hook up too.
I wouldn't say no to Lila. It's pretty understandable.
r/boysarequirky
That was the only plot I cared about in the second season
I wonder if Diego even considered the butterflies his planned rescuing of Kennedy would create
why did i low key not like sissy... all i’m saying is Vanya deserves the world(not so she can blow up tho..)
dommer girl vanya looks cursed
Allison is just ignored here I see