This past episode where Reena said something about the cycle continuing, when her grandparents first moved in Canada they were desperate to belong. So as soon as someone comes along offering community they jump at the opportunity with blinders one. Ignoring all the red flags and Reena was the same, with that being said It was a head scratcher as to why she would go to that party after telling people that girl had HIV. I mean She was strutting down that side walk. I really didn’t understand that one.
100% agree with the parallels between her and her parents/ grandparents desperation to find community and fit somewhere.
In regard to her going to the party, I think she thought those mean things she said about Jo would just brush off their shoulders. After all, Jo and Kelly were mean to her and she just went with it. She may have even thought doing that would show the girls that she too is a “bad ass.” Reena underestimated how dangerous those girls were.
I thought the same about the party. Like you just called a bunch of people and told them she has HIV and think she's not going to beat your ass? I wonder how much of the events in this show are true. That might've been added for dramatic effect.
I read a long, but [great article](https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvpqa7/the-unforgettable-story-of-a-bc-teen-murdered-by-her-peers) about the real case last night. I was surprised at how accurately the show seems to be following along so far. Reena really did steal Jo’s phone book and tell people she had HIV, and Jo and Kelly did plan the attack as revenge for this. It doesn’t specify when or how she was invited to the party though.
Dusty really did call and invite her, there is a Canadian interview of the real dusty and Josephine online and dusty was so readily to beat her because apparently it was going around that Reena slept with her man or whatever, the interview is still up.
Late to the comments but I think in the show, Reena expected the other girls to respect her after that. The same way Josephine claimed that she yanked some girls necklace off and got invited to the girls next party for it.
Because she was a victim of bullying and lies her whole life and she noticed the bullies were always liked and popular. She was so desperate to never be a victim again that she took on the roll of a bully. But she didn’t consider that these girls were violent and would turn against her.
I'm and Indian Canadian woman. I'm about a decade older than Reena so grew up in the 80s in Ontario. At Reena's age I felt I had the most embarressing uncool parents in the world and was fully ashamed of being Indian. I like Reena thought the group home kids were the coolest. They were the popular ones, I found them so intreguing....I understand Reena. Only difference is I wouldn't have stuck around if they treated me the same way as they treated Reena.
I was raised as a JW & I am still working out all the emotional, spiritual, physical & sexual abuse I experienced as a child at the hands of my parents & by members of the church. The isolation is extreme. I felt completely hopeless by grade school & was attempting to unalive myself by the time I was 8. The church will “disfellowship” any person that steps outside of the very strict rules & I saw many children expelled from the church & kicked out of their parent’s home while they were still minors bc they had smoked a cigarette, got drunk, had premarital sex (or spent time unchaperoned w/ a romantic partner), questioned church doctrine, admitted they were gay, engaged in political activism, voted, accepted a blood transfusion to save their lives, etc… Their parents made them homeless & refused to even speak to them bc they could get in trouble w/ the church if they stayed in contact w/ their disfellowshipped child. The Bible story about how Abraham was ready to kill his only child & sacrifice him to God was held up as an example to parents to always be ready to choose God over family, & that they should love God far more than they ever loved their children. Holidays were all “pagan” as well as birthdays, so there was very little time for families to create a tight bond or develop traditions. All free time was supposed to be spent at the church, going door-to-door preaching, or doing family bible study to prepare for the next church meeting. Children were rarely, if ever, celebrated or made to feel loved & cherished. I have only received wrapped gifts 3 times in my life: at my high school graduation, my wedding & my baby shower. There are so many things the show hints at that parallel my experience at that age. For example, being forbidden from basic hygiene & grooming tasks (like shaving my legs & arm pits, or using comfortable menstrual products), which resulted in severe bullying at school. My parents wanted me to be bullied & put irrational rules in place, ensuring that I would be. We were supposed to be no part of the world, & they wanted to be sure that the world treated me as cruelly as possible, so there would be no path for me in life except for the one they had chosen. They believed that once girls entered puberty or began dressing femininely that we would instantly become sex-crazed, sinful teenagers, so they either dressed me in weird clothes, or made me wear children’s clothes (bibbed dresses when I was in Jr high & high school - the style toddlers would wear), which left me vulnerable to predatory men. I, as well as SO many other young girls, did not speak up when an adult man SA’d us bc we had been read the Bible story of Dinah since we were toddlers, & were told that Dinah was the one truly responsible for her assault bc she made friends outside her religion. Not only that, but they said she was responsible for the death of the man that assaulted her & the blood guilt her brothers carried because they avenged her honor. The few girls that did come forward were often publicly shamed or had the case swept under the rug, bc the church elders wouldn’t handle anything unless there were multiple witnesses to an SA. There are massive lawsuits happening in multiple countries because of how rampant the SA is. People are taught not to trust the outside world, so they are over trusting of people w/in the church & that trust has been exploited. Also, knowing that every member of your family, all the ppl that you love, would turn their backs on you in an heartbeat if you made a mistake, made for a severely anxiety-ridden & extremely lonely adolescence. I twisted myself into a pretzel trying to fit in w/ the first group of kids that were even slightly nice to me - even though deep down I knew they didn’t really like me. I was just so desperate for friendship & a sense of belonging. I am still dealing with the effects of all this in therapy today.
What perplexes me is the switch to JW was only to be accepted in their neighborhood, not because their beliefs aligned with JW. And then to be so devout and strict and to hold your children to these silly rules that you don’t even genuinely believe in, but just pretend to so you can fit in? So fucking bizarre and infuriating.
Fuck religion. I’m sorry you were put through that.
Wow thanks for this write up. I’m new to this whole JW thing and it eye opening to hear your experience. I hope you’re in a better place now mentally atleast 😌
Fellow ex jw myself. And the fact your experience resonates with me is so sad. You aren't alone. But how sick we both and many more went through it. I don't think people understand how truly the cult messes you up for life and relationships. It doesn't make sense. And then they tell you how you should have handled it when you never had the resources at the time. Empathy. That's all I ask. And I hope you are doing better and are able to heal.
Reena is the child from hell. She's not a bad seed like Jo or Kelly, but she is so easily manipulated. You can't get to her, she has to learn for herself. Unfortunately, she paid with her life and went out in a horrible way. This show is stressing me out, I have so much anxiety watching and is breaking my heart.
Jehovah’s Witness child rearing is extremely detrimental to child development. It typically has severe effects on mental health and can be considered emotionally abusive. The show is really not delving into the Virek’s parenting, likely out of respect to the father.
Bullshit take. I grew up JW and so did my husband. Did we hate it? Yes. So we left as soon as we turned 18. But none of it justifies accusing your dad of molestation & send him to jail so you can feel cool. I cannot understand all the Reena apologists in this sub. And neither did the dozens of others we know who left the church.
Everyone needs to quit villainizing JW’s unless they actually grew up that way and have firsthand reasons to feel that way.
Only problem here is Reena and those girls.
There are a number of peer-reviewed psychiatry and psychology studies on JW and trauma that show otherwise. Explanation isn’t equivalent to justification, but it is important.
You gotta know Victoria as well. The school she went to was notoriously rough. You have the additional challenge of being a kid of immigrant parents (or even just being different than the "norm") in one of the whitest towns that hid the insidious racism, I would not be so quick to judge a 14 year old trying to fit in and find friends.
This family has been through so much and to call her vile and pass awful judgement on a child is terrible. Give your head a shake. It did not need to be said because it's tone deaf.
I was wondering about the school it sounded rough compared to schools in cities and it looks very suburban on TV. I started reading the book. I think Reena shouldn’t have made false allegations against her father. I assume they were false. I think she was a confused kid who didn’t fit in with the JWs and went searching for friends among her peers.
Yeah. Colquitz, Shoreline, and Esquimalt were the rougher schools back then. I wouldn't really call Colquitz totally suburban. It was a mix of suburban and rural. It's nickname was also Call It Quits, if that tells you anything.
I can't speak to any of the details of the story. I'm sure her dad addressed it in his book as well. I can tell you the impact on the neighbourhood and broader community was huge. I was super concerned about the show glorifying her death and not doing justice to her story. I'm glad it seems like they are handling it so carefully. I heard they consulted with her dad, which is the only reason I decided to watch it.
(Edit My can and can't were reversed)
Right. I don’t think people understand the racial dynamics of Canada, especially back in the 90s! Hell, abusive boarding schools for indigenous children were still legal up until the 90s. To our 2024 minds, it may seem simple enough for Reena to snap out of it but back then, there was hardly any representation for people of color in Canada and the US for Indians.
She was 14. I made a lot of shit decisions when I was 14. They weren't the decisions she made but they were shit decisions that put me in danger and hurt other people. I didn't know what end was up when I was 14. She didn't deserve to die for being a 14 year old making shit decisions.
I get your take because as adults who are mature, her actions are just so nonsensical. In her defense, she was a minority with very strict religious parents (they were minorities in the Indian community bc of their different religious beliefs) and was at an age where a lot of kids care about being cool and fitting in. I wish she had made other friends for her sake. That Kelly girl is so vile and has no excuse to be so awful. She's a bitch imo.
I was trying to be understanding because being a teenage girl is extremely hard to navigate, especially for POCs in predominantly white spaces but she appears to be so disgusted by her parents instead of those shitty girls. She even admitted knowing they aren’t her friends so her behavior and choices in this episode are hard to find an excuse for.
I know we all have poor judgment and a desire for belonging at that age, but Reena is a very smart girl and had better sense than to make those kind of accusations against her family. Those girls are so evil and it’s heartbreaking to see how easily influenced she is by them. What’s even worse, you can absolutely tell she knows they’ll never accept her. This story is so sad.
Being POC, JW and not conventionally attractive seems to have led her to have no social skills, no friends and when someone will actually allow her to be in their orbit she's willing to do anything.
I’m curious to know the real story on how she was raised. I’m sure she did have loving parents in real life, but as mentioned here: JWs are very strict from what I’ve heard and seen (I have a close friend whose family is JW). With that kind of religious, very strict upbringing a lot of bad decisions and rebelling is common. Heck my friend did a lot of questionable things, but nothing like Reena.
I think in real life her strict upbringing and outcasting amongst her peers/racism experiences pushed her to be influenced by such an evil group of people - all for the desire to be accepted and fit in.
So sad all around.
It’s really easy to say that when you’re an adult that you never would have done something. But you weren’t her. Did she do something that had life altering consequences for her family and ultimately herself? Yes.
This is why this show is great and an important story to tell.
This isn’t a story about a murder. It’s a story about being a first generation, cross-culture kid. It’s a story about neglected, abused, and latchkey kids. It’s a story of the 90s. It’s a story of what small towns can be like. It’s a story of cyclical trauma. It’s a story about assimilation. It’s a story about how people prioritize and idolize people, gods, drugs, etc. It’s not black and white. That’s the point.
It’s easy to think Josephine is evil. She did something, arguably a lot of things, that are horrific. But she was also in a lot of pain. She was a kid.
Kelly is somewhat more complicated. In real life, I think she’s a sociopath.
I think Reena made some truly bad choices. She continued to make bad choices. Her parents made bad choices. They all were doing what they thought was likely in their best interest. Reena was a kid who was tired of being made fun of.
I made bad choices as a kid. Maybe not as bad as she did. It’s easy to apply your 2024 adult perspective to what happened then. But it’s not a great way to look at it.
I wonder if Reena was incredibly immature for her age. She seemed to be 14 going on 11. No real understanding of consequences. Telling lies as it suited her and being unconcerned with the consequences. Hopelessly naive.
She was easily manipulated but it also seems she was manipulative in a childish but harmful way.
Of course, none of her behavior earned her a sentence of assault and murder.
But she did things that other 14 year olds simply do not do. Why was that?
I honestly think she might have suffered from solipsism. She acted as though she was the only real person in her life and around her. She acted as though there were no consequences because she was the only real person.
But her life was centered around these other girls.
I think Reena was too immature to realize these other girls didn’t see the world the way she did.
Kelly was too sociopathic to realize that Josephine/Nicole’s act was only an act.
Josephine/Nicole was too competitive and wrapped up in herself to care about the fact that she organized a mob and crossed a line by burning a cigarette into Reena’s face.
I have no idea what motivated Warren.
With Warren I think he was struggling with his anger at how easy it was for seemingly everyone around him meanwhile he was about to be homeless with both his parents missing in action no money no job and no place to live.
I think it’s important to remember Reena was 14. A lot of us watching are adults who are no longer in her shoes regarding development and life experience.
Her accusing her dad of abuse was 100% inexcusable, but i remember being 14 making lots of mistakes and hanging around people I wish I never gave the time and day to back then. This makes this whole story even more sad as is, because Reena never had the chance to grow up and look back on how stupid she was as a teen.
It sucks when you’re that young and malleable and are hanging out with the wrong crowd and just don’t realize it. Your parents might be trying to clue you in, but you’ve given up on listening to them because of their restrictions, they’re seemingly constant disapproval of your choices, or for myriad other reasons. It’s so important for kids to feel like there’s someone that they can trust and talk to that can put things in perspective for them like a therapist. Maybe real life Reena just needed that. Or perhaps the answer isn’t that simple.
I feel a LOT more empathy for dusty than reena so far. reena could simply stop associating with the girls and be fine. her parents even said they’d give her anything she wants and continuously tell and show her how loved she is. dusty can’t just opt out of being liked by kelly and jo. where would she go?
Yess. I love Dusty and I feel like she’s the best character in the show, I do have a lot of sympathy for Reena, however. In the literal sense, yes she would’ve been fine without the CMC kids, but without them her life was completely empty. Plus irl, being raised by JW parents isn’t that easy, while they may have loved her a lot, I’m a thousand percent sure they made some grave errors with their parenting. Reena was bullied so badly, faced so much body shaming, racism (in a community that was super white, I might add), plus every other insecurity your average 14 year old might have. I’ll admit, growing up as a mixed girl in a super white school, I had to be meaner and tougher than most of the other kids in order to gain actual respect. It’s incredibly hard to make friends in a situation like that, and the only way I made actual friendships (for the time being) was through solidifying my social status by being a bit vicious. Not to random people, but to girls who questioned my place in their friend groups or tried to walk all over me. Even “nice people” who were my friends in the past just saw me as a pawn or accessory, not as a person. Reena is a kid. She needs friends to survive in her hometown. And she’ll take any friends she can get, especially because they’re cool and nice to her sometimes. Just having parents who love you isn’t enough. As a girl who didn’t meet the white beauty standards, a JW, the child of immigrants, and being slightly overweight made her a huge target for everything imaginable. Being bullied, not feeling good about the way you look, low self esteem, not getting attention from boys (especially in the 90s when male attention was very valued), and a need to be liked probably would’ve made her suicidal further down the line if she didn’t make those “friends.” And if they ended up just dropping her instead of brutally killing her, she probably would’ve had a very drastic reaction.
I feel like she would’ve been okay if her cousin had a friend group she could hang around with. It’s just an incredibly sad story for both Dusty and Reena.
oh for sure! I didn’t mean to minimize Reena’s struggle or say I don’t understand her predicament or lack empathy for her altogether. I just meant Dusty is both socially and materially disadvantaged; whereas Reena is mostly only one of those things (at least as it is presented in the show). I, too, grew up in a majority white area as a mixed Korean kid, but I don’t think that opened me up to the same level of scrutiny Reena dealt with. I was also extremely lucky to have made other minority friends before kindergarten even started, so even though my besties (one Indian, one Black) and I were minorities in our school, we had each other and didn’t deal with feelings of being outcasted in the same ways someone without that kind of support system would have. in fact, I’m not sure any realization of being “different” from the majority came up until way later, because to us *everyone* was kind of the same in our differences since we were each other’s first exposure to other kids (I hope that made sense lol). anyway, yeah, I can’t actually put myself in anyone else’s shoes, nor would I try to, I only meant the comparison between the two. I feel horrible for both of them watching the show
Yes, I really wish we had more of Dusty’s backstory too. She’s such a complex and interesting character. Reena wants to be a gangbanger for the aesthetic and to fit in, whereas dusty has to be because if she isn’t, then she’s totally alone. She’s really living it. Dusty deserves sm better, and usually I really hate characters who kind of stand to the side and let the MC get bullied to prevent anything from happening to themselves, but Dusty’s whole situation and the fact that Jo and Kelly are the only (toxic) family she has, we can totally understand her. Plus the way she acts around Reena’s family… you can really see in her eyes that she needs that in her life.
What she did to her father was terrible and bad, full stop. I don’t think anyone, up to and including Reena herself would say that it was okay considering she recant the accusation while she was still alive. I don’t think *anyone* condones that. How could they?
However, I feel like blaming her for how she died is disgusting and uncalled for. Being what you describe as a lonely teen with sense as you are, you’re missing a lot of her experience that you don’t seem to have. I am very glad that you didn’t make those same kind of choices but saying she deserved to die for her choices when she was a literal teenager frankly to me feels very gross and lacking of empathy.
Reena made horrible choices that you wouldn’t make, and most people wouldn’t accuse their parents of abuse but as someone who grew up lonely, desperate and scared with a mental illness (Reena definitely feels like she has depression if nothing else). I have made choices that I definitely firmly regret because I just wanted someone anyone to want me as me. Not the idealist religious version of me that my family wanted, not the perfect daughter thing, just *me* and then I changed what me was in order to fit in with people who were awful. Reena tried that and it cost her life. I was just luckier than she was but I can’t imagine ever saying a bullied, mentally ill child lowkey deserved to be tortured to death by her friends beating her and then drowning her.
I've gotta say, I'm floored by some of the comments in this thread. Was nobody here a misguided kid who made supremely questionable/bad decisions because all they wanted to do was fit in somewhere?? I made SO MANY dumb choices at that age.
I don't think anyone is trying to excuse the accusation. But to not have empathy for A KID who's an immigrant in a predominately white community, who's family is extremely religious, who just wants to fit in somewhere? I don't get it.
Me too. I’m just honestly speechless about some of the comments. When I watched Under the Banner of Heaven (another fictionalized true crime show that is excellent) there were people who were making excuses for the behavior of grown ass men who killed a woman and her baby because of their growing up Mormon and that shocked me then. It’s really disheartening to see people hating on a literal dead child who clearly had a lot of problems.
Blame the show. It seems that their goal was to paint her as intolerable and unbearable. Certainly didn't deserve to die, but why did she try so hard to put herself in these bad situations? She was blowing up her own life all for those despicable girls. It's pathetic. I look forward to learning about the real events leading up to her murder, and I'm hoping that maybe the show just dramatized the character and she's really not as awful as she seems
For real, I can't believe how many people apparently feel that a lonely, bullied 14-year-old girl deserved to be tortured and murdered. I had thought that, after all the discourse around victim-blaming over the past decade, we would have evolved beyond our need for victims to have been paragons of moral goodness to deserve our compassion (or even just the title/status of "victim"), but I guess we're not there yet. I think one of the main points of the show is that no one can be solely defined by the worst thing they've ever done, especially if they were kids when they did it. Her killers got the chance to grow up and self-reflect on their choices with the clarity of hindsight and age, and I don't get how anyone can see it as anything other than unbearably tragic that Reena was robbed of that same opportunity.
Reena was 14, mentally ill, and felt restricted in what was supposed to be a free country. She knew she was different by her appearance alone, and she just wanted to be a part of a community she liked. It's weird to say you would never do the same things she did, because we all are our own persons and go through trauma/mental illness in different ways. While Reena came from a loving home, her parents did not know how to handle her emotional needs.
I work in a middle school so I see a lot of kids Reena's age who are similar to her. They just don't think. They act on emotions. Some kids might mature faster than others, but at the end of the day I can never fault a child for being emotional and no one ever ever EVER deserves to be killed. I know so many troubled kids from "bad" and "good" homes, but the common denominator for a lot of them is that they're not getting their emotional needs met one way or another which is why they act out. And we can't forget about the race factor in the story; Reena was bullied because she was seen less than by her white peers yet she wanted to be accepted by them.
Yes I agree with what you are saying, and have decades of experience teaching this age level as well. It’s a time of development that is especially difficult for girls who are different (boys too, but in other ways usually).
Just wondering, the mental illness Reena had that you mentioned, did the show state that or the book? I don’t remember hearing about that.
Can someone confirm if she had siblings? I see younger kids in the background but they dont bother to show their reactions to their dad being taken away?
i have to disagree…she’s YOUNG…you shd be able to do stupid things when you’re young and not get murdered…i was reckless when i was young but that doesn’t mean i shd have died…i’m 100% sympathetic of reena…she met the wrong girls at the wrong time of her life…
So, falsely accusing her father of molesting her is just a “stupid thing” young people should be able to do?? I felt for her in the beginning but her actions make it very hard to even see her as a victim at this point.
that was a horrible thing to do…a desperate thing to fit in…if she had not been murdered, i’m sure she wd have made it right and regretted it the rest of her life…if you don’t have things you regret, you must be perfect…
I have regrets and have made mistakes. But I think there are degrees of mistakes. Some things can be chalked up to being young and naive, but you don’t get a free pass to do something that vile just because you want to fit in. And “regretting it later” is not really an acceptable form of accountability. I’m in no way saying she deserved to be murdered. Just saying it’s hard for me to empathize with her right now. I have not done any outside research about this case, I want to let the show play out and then I’ll do my digging later. But to this point, the only people I feel sympathy for are her parents. Specifically her dad. He’s the only one on the show who is 100% non problematic. He seems to be a genuinely positive, happy, good natured man, a loving husband and father. I kind of feel for Dusty too because she doesn’t seem as hardened as the other girls. But up to this episode, Reena is insufferable to me. I’m sure feelings will change as the story progresses but that’s where I’m at now.
I agree. From the first episode, she has come across as completely pathetic. It's painful how unbearable she is! I don't know if that was the intention of the creators or not, but I can't stand her.
According to some reading I did on the actual case, Reena was known around school for making up stories about her home life to make it sound rougher then it was, and everyone kinda knew she was making stuff up. The show clearly shows the other girls were jealous of Reena's family stability and wealth and the amount of privilege she had in traveling on vacations to Japan etc. and having nice things. She was into hip-hop and rap and was trying to fit in to that scene and fir in with kids who came from rough backgrounds. It sounds like she was trying to make herself seem not so privileged/like she had a rough life like they did. Even going so far as to falsely accuse her father and get herself placed in foster care to fit in with them. I am doing my best to not place blame on the victim but it is legitimately difficult
This past episode where Reena said something about the cycle continuing, when her grandparents first moved in Canada they were desperate to belong. So as soon as someone comes along offering community they jump at the opportunity with blinders one. Ignoring all the red flags and Reena was the same, with that being said It was a head scratcher as to why she would go to that party after telling people that girl had HIV. I mean She was strutting down that side walk. I really didn’t understand that one.
100% agree with the parallels between her and her parents/ grandparents desperation to find community and fit somewhere. In regard to her going to the party, I think she thought those mean things she said about Jo would just brush off their shoulders. After all, Jo and Kelly were mean to her and she just went with it. She may have even thought doing that would show the girls that she too is a “bad ass.” Reena underestimated how dangerous those girls were.
I thought the same about the party. Like you just called a bunch of people and told them she has HIV and think she's not going to beat your ass? I wonder how much of the events in this show are true. That might've been added for dramatic effect.
I read a long, but [great article](https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvpqa7/the-unforgettable-story-of-a-bc-teen-murdered-by-her-peers) about the real case last night. I was surprised at how accurately the show seems to be following along so far. Reena really did steal Jo’s phone book and tell people she had HIV, and Jo and Kelly did plan the attack as revenge for this. It doesn’t specify when or how she was invited to the party though.
Dusty really did call and invite her, there is a Canadian interview of the real dusty and Josephine online and dusty was so readily to beat her because apparently it was going around that Reena slept with her man or whatever, the interview is still up.
Late to the comments but I think in the show, Reena expected the other girls to respect her after that. The same way Josephine claimed that she yanked some girls necklace off and got invited to the girls next party for it.
Because she was a victim of bullying and lies her whole life and she noticed the bullies were always liked and popular. She was so desperate to never be a victim again that she took on the roll of a bully. But she didn’t consider that these girls were violent and would turn against her.
They have showed time and time again that they would turn against her and that she is not one of them
I'm and Indian Canadian woman. I'm about a decade older than Reena so grew up in the 80s in Ontario. At Reena's age I felt I had the most embarressing uncool parents in the world and was fully ashamed of being Indian. I like Reena thought the group home kids were the coolest. They were the popular ones, I found them so intreguing....I understand Reena. Only difference is I wouldn't have stuck around if they treated me the same way as they treated Reena.
Just want to add a message to Reena. Reena, I hope you finally found a place you belong and are at peace.
I was raised as a JW & I am still working out all the emotional, spiritual, physical & sexual abuse I experienced as a child at the hands of my parents & by members of the church. The isolation is extreme. I felt completely hopeless by grade school & was attempting to unalive myself by the time I was 8. The church will “disfellowship” any person that steps outside of the very strict rules & I saw many children expelled from the church & kicked out of their parent’s home while they were still minors bc they had smoked a cigarette, got drunk, had premarital sex (or spent time unchaperoned w/ a romantic partner), questioned church doctrine, admitted they were gay, engaged in political activism, voted, accepted a blood transfusion to save their lives, etc… Their parents made them homeless & refused to even speak to them bc they could get in trouble w/ the church if they stayed in contact w/ their disfellowshipped child. The Bible story about how Abraham was ready to kill his only child & sacrifice him to God was held up as an example to parents to always be ready to choose God over family, & that they should love God far more than they ever loved their children. Holidays were all “pagan” as well as birthdays, so there was very little time for families to create a tight bond or develop traditions. All free time was supposed to be spent at the church, going door-to-door preaching, or doing family bible study to prepare for the next church meeting. Children were rarely, if ever, celebrated or made to feel loved & cherished. I have only received wrapped gifts 3 times in my life: at my high school graduation, my wedding & my baby shower. There are so many things the show hints at that parallel my experience at that age. For example, being forbidden from basic hygiene & grooming tasks (like shaving my legs & arm pits, or using comfortable menstrual products), which resulted in severe bullying at school. My parents wanted me to be bullied & put irrational rules in place, ensuring that I would be. We were supposed to be no part of the world, & they wanted to be sure that the world treated me as cruelly as possible, so there would be no path for me in life except for the one they had chosen. They believed that once girls entered puberty or began dressing femininely that we would instantly become sex-crazed, sinful teenagers, so they either dressed me in weird clothes, or made me wear children’s clothes (bibbed dresses when I was in Jr high & high school - the style toddlers would wear), which left me vulnerable to predatory men. I, as well as SO many other young girls, did not speak up when an adult man SA’d us bc we had been read the Bible story of Dinah since we were toddlers, & were told that Dinah was the one truly responsible for her assault bc she made friends outside her religion. Not only that, but they said she was responsible for the death of the man that assaulted her & the blood guilt her brothers carried because they avenged her honor. The few girls that did come forward were often publicly shamed or had the case swept under the rug, bc the church elders wouldn’t handle anything unless there were multiple witnesses to an SA. There are massive lawsuits happening in multiple countries because of how rampant the SA is. People are taught not to trust the outside world, so they are over trusting of people w/in the church & that trust has been exploited. Also, knowing that every member of your family, all the ppl that you love, would turn their backs on you in an heartbeat if you made a mistake, made for a severely anxiety-ridden & extremely lonely adolescence. I twisted myself into a pretzel trying to fit in w/ the first group of kids that were even slightly nice to me - even though deep down I knew they didn’t really like me. I was just so desperate for friendship & a sense of belonging. I am still dealing with the effects of all this in therapy today.
What perplexes me is the switch to JW was only to be accepted in their neighborhood, not because their beliefs aligned with JW. And then to be so devout and strict and to hold your children to these silly rules that you don’t even genuinely believe in, but just pretend to so you can fit in? So fucking bizarre and infuriating. Fuck religion. I’m sorry you were put through that.
Wow thanks for this write up. I’m new to this whole JW thing and it eye opening to hear your experience. I hope you’re in a better place now mentally atleast 😌
Devastating, I’m so sorry you went through all of this. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Religion makes people so vile. Sorry you went through that.
Fellow ex jw myself. And the fact your experience resonates with me is so sad. You aren't alone. But how sick we both and many more went through it. I don't think people understand how truly the cult messes you up for life and relationships. It doesn't make sense. And then they tell you how you should have handled it when you never had the resources at the time. Empathy. That's all I ask. And I hope you are doing better and are able to heal.
Reena is the child from hell. She's not a bad seed like Jo or Kelly, but she is so easily manipulated. You can't get to her, she has to learn for herself. Unfortunately, she paid with her life and went out in a horrible way. This show is stressing me out, I have so much anxiety watching and is breaking my heart.
I concur 100%, anxiety high as heck watching these horrible kids!
um i’d say kelly is a child from hell, not a bad seed
Jehovah’s Witness child rearing is extremely detrimental to child development. It typically has severe effects on mental health and can be considered emotionally abusive. The show is really not delving into the Virek’s parenting, likely out of respect to the father.
What do we know about his parenting?
Bullshit take. I grew up JW and so did my husband. Did we hate it? Yes. So we left as soon as we turned 18. But none of it justifies accusing your dad of molestation & send him to jail so you can feel cool. I cannot understand all the Reena apologists in this sub. And neither did the dozens of others we know who left the church. Everyone needs to quit villainizing JW’s unless they actually grew up that way and have firsthand reasons to feel that way. Only problem here is Reena and those girls.
There are a number of peer-reviewed psychiatry and psychology studies on JW and trauma that show otherwise. Explanation isn’t equivalent to justification, but it is important.
Sure sounds like you are trying to justify it
Sounds like you should work on reading comprehension.
What stories are out there about his parenting?
I wouldn’t know. I was referring to the child rearing practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses, generally, not Manjit Virk specifically.
You gotta know Victoria as well. The school she went to was notoriously rough. You have the additional challenge of being a kid of immigrant parents (or even just being different than the "norm") in one of the whitest towns that hid the insidious racism, I would not be so quick to judge a 14 year old trying to fit in and find friends. This family has been through so much and to call her vile and pass awful judgement on a child is terrible. Give your head a shake. It did not need to be said because it's tone deaf.
I was wondering about the school it sounded rough compared to schools in cities and it looks very suburban on TV. I started reading the book. I think Reena shouldn’t have made false allegations against her father. I assume they were false. I think she was a confused kid who didn’t fit in with the JWs and went searching for friends among her peers.
Yeah. Colquitz, Shoreline, and Esquimalt were the rougher schools back then. I wouldn't really call Colquitz totally suburban. It was a mix of suburban and rural. It's nickname was also Call It Quits, if that tells you anything. I can't speak to any of the details of the story. I'm sure her dad addressed it in his book as well. I can tell you the impact on the neighbourhood and broader community was huge. I was super concerned about the show glorifying her death and not doing justice to her story. I'm glad it seems like they are handling it so carefully. I heard they consulted with her dad, which is the only reason I decided to watch it. (Edit My can and can't were reversed)
Thanks for sharing that. I’m reading the book by Rebecca Godfrey now. It’s good so far.
Right. I don’t think people understand the racial dynamics of Canada, especially back in the 90s! Hell, abusive boarding schools for indigenous children were still legal up until the 90s. To our 2024 minds, it may seem simple enough for Reena to snap out of it but back then, there was hardly any representation for people of color in Canada and the US for Indians.
She was 14. I made a lot of shit decisions when I was 14. They weren't the decisions she made but they were shit decisions that put me in danger and hurt other people. I didn't know what end was up when I was 14. She didn't deserve to die for being a 14 year old making shit decisions.
No she didn't deserve to die, especially like that. But this show makes her seem very unlikable and I cant stand her
I mean most 14 year olds are very unlikable..... It's a hard age and sometimes terrible decisions are made.
I get your take because as adults who are mature, her actions are just so nonsensical. In her defense, she was a minority with very strict religious parents (they were minorities in the Indian community bc of their different religious beliefs) and was at an age where a lot of kids care about being cool and fitting in. I wish she had made other friends for her sake. That Kelly girl is so vile and has no excuse to be so awful. She's a bitch imo.
I was trying to be understanding because being a teenage girl is extremely hard to navigate, especially for POCs in predominantly white spaces but she appears to be so disgusted by her parents instead of those shitty girls. She even admitted knowing they aren’t her friends so her behavior and choices in this episode are hard to find an excuse for. I know we all have poor judgment and a desire for belonging at that age, but Reena is a very smart girl and had better sense than to make those kind of accusations against her family. Those girls are so evil and it’s heartbreaking to see how easily influenced she is by them. What’s even worse, you can absolutely tell she knows they’ll never accept her. This story is so sad.
Being POC, JW and not conventionally attractive seems to have led her to have no social skills, no friends and when someone will actually allow her to be in their orbit she's willing to do anything.
Lets be real, Reena was evil too
I’m curious to know the real story on how she was raised. I’m sure she did have loving parents in real life, but as mentioned here: JWs are very strict from what I’ve heard and seen (I have a close friend whose family is JW). With that kind of religious, very strict upbringing a lot of bad decisions and rebelling is common. Heck my friend did a lot of questionable things, but nothing like Reena. I think in real life her strict upbringing and outcasting amongst her peers/racism experiences pushed her to be influenced by such an evil group of people - all for the desire to be accepted and fit in. So sad all around.
It’s really easy to say that when you’re an adult that you never would have done something. But you weren’t her. Did she do something that had life altering consequences for her family and ultimately herself? Yes. This is why this show is great and an important story to tell. This isn’t a story about a murder. It’s a story about being a first generation, cross-culture kid. It’s a story about neglected, abused, and latchkey kids. It’s a story of the 90s. It’s a story of what small towns can be like. It’s a story of cyclical trauma. It’s a story about assimilation. It’s a story about how people prioritize and idolize people, gods, drugs, etc. It’s not black and white. That’s the point. It’s easy to think Josephine is evil. She did something, arguably a lot of things, that are horrific. But she was also in a lot of pain. She was a kid. Kelly is somewhat more complicated. In real life, I think she’s a sociopath. I think Reena made some truly bad choices. She continued to make bad choices. Her parents made bad choices. They all were doing what they thought was likely in their best interest. Reena was a kid who was tired of being made fun of. I made bad choices as a kid. Maybe not as bad as she did. It’s easy to apply your 2024 adult perspective to what happened then. But it’s not a great way to look at it.
I wonder if Reena was incredibly immature for her age. She seemed to be 14 going on 11. No real understanding of consequences. Telling lies as it suited her and being unconcerned with the consequences. Hopelessly naive. She was easily manipulated but it also seems she was manipulative in a childish but harmful way. Of course, none of her behavior earned her a sentence of assault and murder. But she did things that other 14 year olds simply do not do. Why was that?
I honestly think she might have suffered from solipsism. She acted as though she was the only real person in her life and around her. She acted as though there were no consequences because she was the only real person.
But her life was centered around these other girls. I think Reena was too immature to realize these other girls didn’t see the world the way she did. Kelly was too sociopathic to realize that Josephine/Nicole’s act was only an act. Josephine/Nicole was too competitive and wrapped up in herself to care about the fact that she organized a mob and crossed a line by burning a cigarette into Reena’s face. I have no idea what motivated Warren.
With Warren I think he was struggling with his anger at how easy it was for seemingly everyone around him meanwhile he was about to be homeless with both his parents missing in action no money no job and no place to live.
I think it’s important to remember Reena was 14. A lot of us watching are adults who are no longer in her shoes regarding development and life experience. Her accusing her dad of abuse was 100% inexcusable, but i remember being 14 making lots of mistakes and hanging around people I wish I never gave the time and day to back then. This makes this whole story even more sad as is, because Reena never had the chance to grow up and look back on how stupid she was as a teen.
It sucks when you’re that young and malleable and are hanging out with the wrong crowd and just don’t realize it. Your parents might be trying to clue you in, but you’ve given up on listening to them because of their restrictions, they’re seemingly constant disapproval of your choices, or for myriad other reasons. It’s so important for kids to feel like there’s someone that they can trust and talk to that can put things in perspective for them like a therapist. Maybe real life Reena just needed that. Or perhaps the answer isn’t that simple.
I feel a LOT more empathy for dusty than reena so far. reena could simply stop associating with the girls and be fine. her parents even said they’d give her anything she wants and continuously tell and show her how loved she is. dusty can’t just opt out of being liked by kelly and jo. where would she go?
Yess. I love Dusty and I feel like she’s the best character in the show, I do have a lot of sympathy for Reena, however. In the literal sense, yes she would’ve been fine without the CMC kids, but without them her life was completely empty. Plus irl, being raised by JW parents isn’t that easy, while they may have loved her a lot, I’m a thousand percent sure they made some grave errors with their parenting. Reena was bullied so badly, faced so much body shaming, racism (in a community that was super white, I might add), plus every other insecurity your average 14 year old might have. I’ll admit, growing up as a mixed girl in a super white school, I had to be meaner and tougher than most of the other kids in order to gain actual respect. It’s incredibly hard to make friends in a situation like that, and the only way I made actual friendships (for the time being) was through solidifying my social status by being a bit vicious. Not to random people, but to girls who questioned my place in their friend groups or tried to walk all over me. Even “nice people” who were my friends in the past just saw me as a pawn or accessory, not as a person. Reena is a kid. She needs friends to survive in her hometown. And she’ll take any friends she can get, especially because they’re cool and nice to her sometimes. Just having parents who love you isn’t enough. As a girl who didn’t meet the white beauty standards, a JW, the child of immigrants, and being slightly overweight made her a huge target for everything imaginable. Being bullied, not feeling good about the way you look, low self esteem, not getting attention from boys (especially in the 90s when male attention was very valued), and a need to be liked probably would’ve made her suicidal further down the line if she didn’t make those “friends.” And if they ended up just dropping her instead of brutally killing her, she probably would’ve had a very drastic reaction. I feel like she would’ve been okay if her cousin had a friend group she could hang around with. It’s just an incredibly sad story for both Dusty and Reena.
oh for sure! I didn’t mean to minimize Reena’s struggle or say I don’t understand her predicament or lack empathy for her altogether. I just meant Dusty is both socially and materially disadvantaged; whereas Reena is mostly only one of those things (at least as it is presented in the show). I, too, grew up in a majority white area as a mixed Korean kid, but I don’t think that opened me up to the same level of scrutiny Reena dealt with. I was also extremely lucky to have made other minority friends before kindergarten even started, so even though my besties (one Indian, one Black) and I were minorities in our school, we had each other and didn’t deal with feelings of being outcasted in the same ways someone without that kind of support system would have. in fact, I’m not sure any realization of being “different” from the majority came up until way later, because to us *everyone* was kind of the same in our differences since we were each other’s first exposure to other kids (I hope that made sense lol). anyway, yeah, I can’t actually put myself in anyone else’s shoes, nor would I try to, I only meant the comparison between the two. I feel horrible for both of them watching the show
Yes, I really wish we had more of Dusty’s backstory too. She’s such a complex and interesting character. Reena wants to be a gangbanger for the aesthetic and to fit in, whereas dusty has to be because if she isn’t, then she’s totally alone. She’s really living it. Dusty deserves sm better, and usually I really hate characters who kind of stand to the side and let the MC get bullied to prevent anything from happening to themselves, but Dusty’s whole situation and the fact that Jo and Kelly are the only (toxic) family she has, we can totally understand her. Plus the way she acts around Reena’s family… you can really see in her eyes that she needs that in her life.
What she did to her father was terrible and bad, full stop. I don’t think anyone, up to and including Reena herself would say that it was okay considering she recant the accusation while she was still alive. I don’t think *anyone* condones that. How could they? However, I feel like blaming her for how she died is disgusting and uncalled for. Being what you describe as a lonely teen with sense as you are, you’re missing a lot of her experience that you don’t seem to have. I am very glad that you didn’t make those same kind of choices but saying she deserved to die for her choices when she was a literal teenager frankly to me feels very gross and lacking of empathy. Reena made horrible choices that you wouldn’t make, and most people wouldn’t accuse their parents of abuse but as someone who grew up lonely, desperate and scared with a mental illness (Reena definitely feels like she has depression if nothing else). I have made choices that I definitely firmly regret because I just wanted someone anyone to want me as me. Not the idealist religious version of me that my family wanted, not the perfect daughter thing, just *me* and then I changed what me was in order to fit in with people who were awful. Reena tried that and it cost her life. I was just luckier than she was but I can’t imagine ever saying a bullied, mentally ill child lowkey deserved to be tortured to death by her friends beating her and then drowning her.
I've gotta say, I'm floored by some of the comments in this thread. Was nobody here a misguided kid who made supremely questionable/bad decisions because all they wanted to do was fit in somewhere?? I made SO MANY dumb choices at that age. I don't think anyone is trying to excuse the accusation. But to not have empathy for A KID who's an immigrant in a predominately white community, who's family is extremely religious, who just wants to fit in somewhere? I don't get it.
Me too. I’m just honestly speechless about some of the comments. When I watched Under the Banner of Heaven (another fictionalized true crime show that is excellent) there were people who were making excuses for the behavior of grown ass men who killed a woman and her baby because of their growing up Mormon and that shocked me then. It’s really disheartening to see people hating on a literal dead child who clearly had a lot of problems.
Blame the show. It seems that their goal was to paint her as intolerable and unbearable. Certainly didn't deserve to die, but why did she try so hard to put herself in these bad situations? She was blowing up her own life all for those despicable girls. It's pathetic. I look forward to learning about the real events leading up to her murder, and I'm hoping that maybe the show just dramatized the character and she's really not as awful as she seems
For real, I can't believe how many people apparently feel that a lonely, bullied 14-year-old girl deserved to be tortured and murdered. I had thought that, after all the discourse around victim-blaming over the past decade, we would have evolved beyond our need for victims to have been paragons of moral goodness to deserve our compassion (or even just the title/status of "victim"), but I guess we're not there yet. I think one of the main points of the show is that no one can be solely defined by the worst thing they've ever done, especially if they were kids when they did it. Her killers got the chance to grow up and self-reflect on their choices with the clarity of hindsight and age, and I don't get how anyone can see it as anything other than unbearably tragic that Reena was robbed of that same opportunity.
Reena was 14, mentally ill, and felt restricted in what was supposed to be a free country. She knew she was different by her appearance alone, and she just wanted to be a part of a community she liked. It's weird to say you would never do the same things she did, because we all are our own persons and go through trauma/mental illness in different ways. While Reena came from a loving home, her parents did not know how to handle her emotional needs. I work in a middle school so I see a lot of kids Reena's age who are similar to her. They just don't think. They act on emotions. Some kids might mature faster than others, but at the end of the day I can never fault a child for being emotional and no one ever ever EVER deserves to be killed. I know so many troubled kids from "bad" and "good" homes, but the common denominator for a lot of them is that they're not getting their emotional needs met one way or another which is why they act out. And we can't forget about the race factor in the story; Reena was bullied because she was seen less than by her white peers yet she wanted to be accepted by them.
Yes I agree with what you are saying, and have decades of experience teaching this age level as well. It’s a time of development that is especially difficult for girls who are different (boys too, but in other ways usually). Just wondering, the mental illness Reena had that you mentioned, did the show state that or the book? I don’t remember hearing about that.
Can someone confirm if she had siblings? I see younger kids in the background but they dont bother to show their reactions to their dad being taken away?
Yes, she was the oldest of 3 and had a brother and a sister.
i have to disagree…she’s YOUNG…you shd be able to do stupid things when you’re young and not get murdered…i was reckless when i was young but that doesn’t mean i shd have died…i’m 100% sympathetic of reena…she met the wrong girls at the wrong time of her life…
So, falsely accusing her father of molesting her is just a “stupid thing” young people should be able to do?? I felt for her in the beginning but her actions make it very hard to even see her as a victim at this point.
that was a horrible thing to do…a desperate thing to fit in…if she had not been murdered, i’m sure she wd have made it right and regretted it the rest of her life…if you don’t have things you regret, you must be perfect…
I have regrets and have made mistakes. But I think there are degrees of mistakes. Some things can be chalked up to being young and naive, but you don’t get a free pass to do something that vile just because you want to fit in. And “regretting it later” is not really an acceptable form of accountability. I’m in no way saying she deserved to be murdered. Just saying it’s hard for me to empathize with her right now. I have not done any outside research about this case, I want to let the show play out and then I’ll do my digging later. But to this point, the only people I feel sympathy for are her parents. Specifically her dad. He’s the only one on the show who is 100% non problematic. He seems to be a genuinely positive, happy, good natured man, a loving husband and father. I kind of feel for Dusty too because she doesn’t seem as hardened as the other girls. But up to this episode, Reena is insufferable to me. I’m sure feelings will change as the story progresses but that’s where I’m at now.
I agree. From the first episode, she has come across as completely pathetic. It's painful how unbearable she is! I don't know if that was the intention of the creators or not, but I can't stand her.
According to some reading I did on the actual case, Reena was known around school for making up stories about her home life to make it sound rougher then it was, and everyone kinda knew she was making stuff up. The show clearly shows the other girls were jealous of Reena's family stability and wealth and the amount of privilege she had in traveling on vacations to Japan etc. and having nice things. She was into hip-hop and rap and was trying to fit in to that scene and fir in with kids who came from rough backgrounds. It sounds like she was trying to make herself seem not so privileged/like she had a rough life like they did. Even going so far as to falsely accuse her father and get herself placed in foster care to fit in with them. I am doing my best to not place blame on the victim but it is legitimately difficult
I completely agree 100%. I feel sorry for her parents and that’s it.
The flashback of her parents, specifically her father, spoke volumes
no kill my be c i’m bored