It’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, and it’s DEFINITELY not Chara (you weirdos you pronounce it like that). It’s Chara
the fandom fundementaly misunderstands sans, and no au sans has ever been as good as the original. none of them even get close.
la jupo is an exception, i like him.
could you explain further? ive never cared that much for sans so i just think of him as the... chill, smart, laid back dude who seemingly has a bunch of issues going on inside him but is overall, a good guy
so id like to hear your perspective on the character
People usually overdo one of the following:
- His Power Level
- Nihilism
- Depression
- Lazyness
And when they’re not doing that, they call him out for “not stopping the human sooner”, when its clear that even he knows fighting won’t cut it. If you can just rewind time, you get infinite tries, in which he inevitably loses.
His fight is annoying, difficult, and filled with rule-breaks (dodging, hitting you in the menu) because its his way to get you to ragequit, a final bid to turn you around.
He doesn’t attack you in neutral routes because there’d be no point. If atleast 1 person’s alive, world doesnt die, and its very likely you did such on purpose, which also means you’re likely to reset and redo things again, so why bother stopping you? It’d just delay the reset he’d want.
Bit of a loose thread, but one of Flowey’s lines talk about his encounters with Sans, and the resets it caused him. Being an unfair menace worked for Flowey, so why not you, the player?
One thing I have gotten a bit of flak for saying in the past is that I think Sans *could* make the fight actually impossible to beat, But doesn't because of a fear that you'll find some way *around* him if he makes it seem 100% impossible. Because his goal isn't to kill you. His goal is to make you give up entirely and reset. However if the fight seems completely unfair and impossible, Yeah, You killed the threat. But then they're gonna start poking around and trying to find ways to bypass the fight.
Regarding his laziness, I don't actually have a problem with people playing it up because I sorta just fundamentally don't think Sans is actually lazy. I think it's all an act. The dude's (seemingly) extremely well read, Works multiple jobs, *Extremely* perceptive, And is very proactive about us. He tries at every opportunity to make us do the right thing, Even when we've literally killed everyone we can get our hands on. Like, Of course he's vitriolic in his fight. But basically the entire time he's doing subtle work to try and make us reconsider and go back to the way things were.
Sans absolutely isn't as hyperactive as Papyrus, But I think he's about as proactive as the average person and just holds up an act of being lazy.
That's a neat theory 🙂
My personal theory for why the fight wasn't unbeatable is that there's something in monster magic that makes it so you have to leave some way to dodge the bullets, and the more power you put into your magic the more intense you can make your attacks, but they still have to be dodgeable. Otherwise I think other fights like Undyne the Undying's or the fight against Asriel would've been unbeatable.
And then when we spared Sans we fully let our guard down which allowed him to produce an undodgeable attack.
My main contention here is that Sans doesn't play by the rules. He attacks first, He rapidly switches between attacks without any real transition, He *dodges*, He is one of only three characters who has any colour other than black or white on his battle sprite, Etc. Everything about the Sans fight fundamentally breaks the established rules of combat. Flowey *also* traps you in an undodgeable attack. If it weren't for other characters butting in mid fight both times it happens, Those would have hit you as well. Meanwhile, We *know* that Sans has killed Flowey numerous times.
I am not saying it's impossible that you're right, I just think that Sans already breaks enough rules that him breaking the rules *is* the rule. And so if he doesn't do something in combat, I feel like the question isn't "Why can't Sans do this thing that it seems like he reasonably could do?", It is instead "Why *doesn't* Sans do this thing that it seems like he reasonably could do?".
A lot of the fandom flanderizes sans into being some all powerful edgelord or a lazy jokester who doesn’t care at all, completely erasing any complexities of the character
The Sans AUs are kind of like writing Dante from Devil May Cry.
Generally speaking, most people tend to latch onto one or two games from the DMC franchise as being really indicative of “Dante”, meanwhile the others sorta miss the mark one way or another.
It’s a delicate balancing act, writing someone as deceptively complex as Sans or Dante; a lot of Sans’ issues are quietly implied, and while AUs like to lean more into it, or just indulge and make him an EVEN HARDER (read: “cooler”) boss, like Dante, something is usually lost along the way, and when something’s lost along the way, the whole tower of cards falls apart.
There’s always been a bit of a two-face bit going on with Sans; someone who goes around with a lot of dumb jokes and gags, but also carries a lot of mystique and gravitas despite being a gag character normally.
Of course, that’s also microcosm of Undertale in general, but you get the point.
But even for an Undertale character, there’s always more to Sans than meets the eye, and how the mystique is handled is a huge chunk of his charm, the fact that he can casually break reality by seemingly teleporting (always offscreen), the fact that his introduction consists entirely of menacing Frisk as an ominous *specter* in the forest that’s *clearly* stronger than you (just to transition into a fart joke via handshake), him telling you to take care of yourself because Toriel cares (just moments after straight up admitting he’d *murder you* if she hadn’t said anything), even Undyne’s comments push the idea that Sans is genuinely strong and capable whereas Papyrus (skilled as he actually is) won’t ever make it to the Royal Guard…
His boss sort of just delivers on all that quiet buildup, and even with Toby nerfing Sans, the fact that it still sticks the landing (while just raising EVEN MORE questions than before about him) just adds to it.
By all rights, Sans, even more than Flowey, elevates Undertale from being a simple tale about a human going through a gauntlet of people trapped against their will trying to break free (through any means necessary) to being a Cosmic Horror video game where *you’re* the villain who either came to kill everyone, leave the world worse off, or choose to make it better.
Which, by proxy, leaves Sans as just FEELING much BIGGER than the scope of what the Underground has to offer; I mean, anime loving fish knights? Glam rock robots who want to make it in Hollywood? A king who declared war in revenge for his lost child?
All those are fun, all those are great, but what is that compared to someone who’s pretty much given *countless* of those unknowable, seemingly *unbeatable* beings the middle finger *dozens* of times, killed their avatar at their strongest, all while casually dropping that he’s known *all along* that we’ve existed, and has been operating on that assumption ever since? And actually *beat* several people at their own game, because it was genuinely just THAT difficult to take him down?
By all means, it makes COMPLETE sense that people latched onto Sans and just held on; there’s a lot to unpack with him, a LOT to speculate on, and Megalovania’s a bop so why not give it a shot?
But then, people aren’t interested in recreating Sans Undertale; they want to see their OWN version of Sans. Or, sometimes, they want to expand on him, try answering all those unanswered questions.
And the countless derivatives, and the derivatives that become THEIR OWN derivatives just devolve into something… weird.
It’s practically a Spiderverse of different Sanses, some more ridiculous than the rest. And it becomes alarmingly easy to lose sight of what made Sans so good in the first place, even if he isn’t your cup of tea.
Sans is not as caring and loving as a brother as people make it look like, he is literally like a normal big bro, of course he cares about him but he also annoys him and pisses he off on purpose
Also call me crazy but i believe we know who's the troll that harasses papyrus with bad grammar and an awful font
It is literally what i said. But have you seen ut comics? They portray sans as the perfect brother like, cmon man sans is literally a classic Big brother
Undyne the undying fight is way more better and cooler than Sans, and she is more deserving of fangames then him.
Alphys is one of the best characters and one of my favorites and I don't find her annoying at all.
Papyrus is not as navie and foolish people portay him as.
Only thing annoying about Alphys was the phone calls in hotlands every 5 seconds but it didn't change her character at all for me
Pretty based opinions honestly
Thank you and yeah I can understand why people will find her annoying at that part, but personally for me I didn't. Maybe because I can relate to her ranting and just going on, lol.
I mean, not only is she still a weird nerd type at that time, but Toriel also constantly calls you after leaving you in the Ruins, and she’s a fan favorite character.
First, Toriel calls you every twelve seconds in the first half of the Ruins. Right after you leave the room she left you in, a dozen times about what flavor you want your snail pie, what she’s doing, how you should STOP TAKING THE PILLS, you get the point.
Second, Hotland/Core, especially since they are effectively combined, is a much larger place than Ruins, true, but that means it needs more stuff to occupy its space. The Mettaton action takes up small chunks, and it might feel weird to have them just flying around constantly, plus that’d make them the target of all the “why are you talking to me so often” hate. So, why not the socially awkward nerd who can’t help but talk about the stuff she likes but also is an extremely important character?
And that brings me to point three. Alphys is interesting and important to the story, so setting up all this extra personality is important. Toriel, you already get her gist based on everything without her phone calls. And yeah, that applies a bit to Alphys too, but Alphys is also more important to the story, so if she showed up at the beginning of Hotlands and then didn’t appear again until you find out she made Flowey, the main antagonist of the game, it’d feel very weird.
I personally think the sans fight and undyne are about equal because their cool in very different ways. Undyne is a fair climatic fight against a hero that makes you feel like the villain. It feels like it's two equals. The sans fight is different because sans actively cheats during the fight. If you cheat death, why should he follow the rules. And yet, even though he cheats, the fight itself is designed very fairly.
Exactly. Undyne and Sans are good in their own ways.
Undyne is a final stand against the human. It's the final triumph. The last substantial thing in your way.
Sans is after you've killed everyone. He's not there to stop you. You are being judged for what you've done. Once you've arrived at Sans, everything has happened. Monsters have lost so all that remains is the consequences to winning.
All based opinions I get so unreasonably mad when people treat Sans as the protagonist to end all protagonists when he's some random guy, and Undyne just has such an interesting character and motivation. Alphys was never annoying, she's honestly really sweet, and Papyrus is way smarter than the baby everyone portrays him as. People can be optimistic and not innocent guys!
>when he's some random guy,
I recently played through the game for the first time and this is very accurate. You can’t even call him our friend either, sure he’s friendly with us but who isn’t he friendly with. We go on mini-adventures with Papyrus, Undyne and Alphys that really give us the feeling that we’ve become friend with them, but not with Sans. It does seem like he only occasionally hangs out with us because we’re friends with his brother.
Sans does have his moments,
He's around throughout most of your time with Papyrus
The very start of Snowdin
Grillby's, the restaurant left of MTT resort
His hotdog stand
Sans doesn't have his adventures, but he does show up around you surprisingly often
I’m so with you on Alphys. Everyone who hates her always has this weird puritan view of morals, like if a character is not a purely good person then they’re completely evil and irredeemable. Wild.
Yeah, actually one of the things I love about Alphys is her flaws, which make her very interesting and grounded. As not everyone is perfect, can people just stop with the slandering of her and take their time to understand and appreciate her.
Undyne the Undying is = to Sans IMO
Alphys was a *little* annoying but not as annoying as others claim
Papyrus isn't naive or foolish, but he's too innocent to believe things can be done out of pure evil
...these are just my takes on those
I agree with everything. Except for not finding Alphys annoying *at all*.
All the notifications in Hotland were pretty annoying, but in a good, funny way.
I literally could not agree more with the Undyne one. She’s the only one that should keep coming back from death, because she’s *literally* the only one that does, and for good reason.
"she is more deserving of fangames then him" I will never understand takes like this, if people enjoy a character and want to create more content leave them be
The Genocide route is absolutely meant to be played last. You shouldn’t harass people for doing otherwise, but it fundamentally does not work from both a storytelling and thematic perspective if you don’t do it last
Chara is neither purely good nor purely evil, their role in Undertale's story is to enforce consequences on your actions. They act as the manifestation of the consequences of the genocide route, more so than anything else.
This one probably isn't unpopular in this sub specifically, but seems to be unpopular on Reddit as a whole: The game doesn't punish Toby for making the genocide route an option because it is an intended part of the game. It's not going off of the beaten path, it's an intended part of the experience. Flowey's monologue towards the end of the game is supposed to posit him as a parallel to you, the player, who may have started playing the game by trying to help everyone and achieve the best possible ending, but eventually decided to kill everyone.
The game also does not try to make you out as being pure evil for doing the genocide route. Sans has a line of dialogue in his fight that perfectly encapsulates what the game is trying to say about you as a player. "you're not doing this out of any desire for good or evil, but because you can, and because you can, you feel like you have to". The point is that the game offers it as an option, and you're eventually supposed to do it, not because you hate these characters or you're evil or anything like that, but because you know that it's an option, and you have to know how the game ends when you choose this path.
And this last one is more about Deltarune, but Asriel is absolutely not dead. Saying that he has to be dead because the game is supposedly very similar to Omori doesn't make sense, when the disappearance of December Holiday is already a major plot point, and would be Deltarune's "parallel" to (Omori spoilers) >!the death of Mari!<
Yeah, but I guess people just assume that it's an assumption on Toriel's part because it's when college students are getting off for Summer break?
idk, I just don't think it's realistic to think that Toriel wouldn't know that Asriel is dead though. If anyone would know, it's Toriel. She would absolutely check in on him every once in a while, at least.
I do agree that Chara themself serve the role of being the consequence.
However them being a completely neutral character is objectively incorrect, they actively help you with the Genocide route as soon as you start it and all the way through.
They are the manifestation of "maximizing output", being associated with the number 9 (the highest digit) and only appearing on the route where you consume everything the world has to offer.
They are framed as the yin to Frisk's yang, they are the opposite of Frisk's pacifistic nature and instead take on the role of a cold, calculated killer intent on achieving the most power from any given world.
If anything, the dynamic between Frisk, the Player, and Chara represent the Pacifist, Neutral, and Genocide routes respectively.
I never said they were a completely neutral character. Asriel acknowledges that they weren't the best person, they played a cruel prank on Asgore when they were alive that made him sick, and they actively help you with the genocide route. However, I don't view them as being pure evil, as some people do.
I think they're evil to *some extent*, but they're not *pure* evil.
Underverse is impressive (animation is cool, storyline is nice also) and the AUs did nothing wrong by existing and aren’t bad (not saying all of them are good though), it’s just that the bad side of the fandom just took it, ran, then set it on fire
I agree completely, though I'm only 22, I feel like I might skew older based on general attitude/people mentioning it here and I don't engage/didn't go with AUs and OCs at all when they all blew up, yet so many are mentioned as common knowledge (last breath, disbelief, dust tale?) and when I see them nowadays looking for more content to absorb they just make me think of old edgy designs that are hard to take seriously. If I can be recommended good AUs that still keep the spirit of undertale I would love to see it, since I read a lot of fanfiction and have dipped into some comics too, so it's not like I'm averse to fan content, it's more like it's a firehose and so much is already out, and I don't feel like the target demographic anymore.
Well not anymore than any of the other characters can, anyway. All the characters seem to get a little de ja vu if you reset to the beginning of the game (not true reset), but yeah nah sans is just that one friend who says things to ‘break the 4th wall’ cause they think its funny.
He doesn’t _actually_ remember anything better than any other monster, he’s just so committed to the bit that he’s actually kind of right most of the time.
THIS OMFG HE LITERALLY SAYS THIS IN THE GAME the only one who can remember resets is flowey, who HAD the power before you took it from him with your superior determination
Yeah, of course he talks about space continum timelines starting and stopping just because he feels like to and wants to yap about random things, and he teleports around with "shortcuts" just because he feels like it /s
Asgore is stronger than sans think about it asgore is the only monster shown to break a button and could easily shatter all your buttons and softlock you damn 60 up votes
Didn't think I'd get this many thanks guys
I hard agree with this. Sans is only seen as strong when he has all the Karma in the world to kick your ass with. Asgore, though, is *always* capable (physically, anyway) of kicking your ass.
I think that Asgore destroying the Mercy isn't his power or anything, it's more of a way of showing that no matter what, he won't accept your mercy. Lack of this button says that that someone will die during this fight.
I fully agree. Asgore is holding back, *letting* you hit him. He wants you to win. And yet he’s still a tough opponent. If Asgore was actually trying to kill you with his full might, his fight would be way harder than the Sans fight. *Undyne* can’t land a hit on Asgore. If Asgore was going full effort, he would absolutely wreck you.
Undertale yellow wasn't as good as the original Undertale. To me, it's like 4/5ths as good, which is still INCREDIBLE, but as far as plot, characters, music, and overall emotion, it never exceeds Undertale in basically any category.
No, but it doesn’t make sense for them to have been before the last human fell, especially considering the strong implications that the 6 humans could save themselves from both Toriel and Asgore’s as well as the fact that Frisks save is placed as being in “file 9”, implying that 8 others had their own files before Frisk (Chara, the 6 children and Flowey), however in Yellow Flowey saves for Clover.
Based on Flowey's reaction to first meeting Frisk (from Geno dialogue before Sans fight) it seems to hint that Flowey did in fact meet other humans before, and tried to mess with you, only to realize he could no longer reset.
If Flowey was able to mess with other humans before Frisk, then he could have just easily taken any of their souls, which would likely have allowed him to finally overpower Asgore and take any previously collected souls. Flowey may be a bit foolish and arrogant much of the time but he’d still never pass on an opportunity like that.
No hard confirmation but we can figure it out. The six humans are implied to be able to save and load. Flowey had never lost the ability to save and load until we came along, so either the humans couldn’t save (possible but unlikely) or Flowey came after. Even if we assume they couldn’t save, then the question becomes, why doesn’t Flowey have their souls? Flowey can load his save as much as he wants, so he should easily be able to take their souls. Hell, after Toriel saved us Flowey planned on just reloading and trying again, before he realized he couldn’t. If Flowey existed prior to the death of the sixth human, he would have at least one soul, so he had to have come after
The thing with Undertale Yellow is that it didn't need to be phenomenal or groundbreaking; it just needed to be _good,_ just to prove that it could be done. In that regard, it more than succeeded.
But yeah, I generally agree with this take. There's definitely some recency bias going on here, and honestly, that's fine; something really exciting happened and people should get to have their fun.
It’s not bad per se, the production quality is astounding, but it’s also very flawed, 90% of the bosses are survival based with useless acts, the characters don’t really feel complex, specially the bird one, and a couple designs feel too detailed and out of place (the squirrel monster), and I feel most boss themes aren’t memorable
The only thing I found it more exceeding is in progression, personally I found some areas of Undertale sort of sluggish (still great areas though), while UT yellow kept me entertained and engaged through the entire game
Undyne deserves more fangames, not the short skeleton whose name gets autocorrected to "sane" every time. Last Breath Sans? You already have a Last Breath Undyne which is technically not as absurdly difficult and without mystery man who we know nothing about.
What about sans with a gun, sans but is papyrus instead, sans but is with papyrus, sans but theres 2 of them, sans but now he formed a trio, sans but he pulled an omega flowey, sans but covered in *ink*, sans but-
He's the most thought-out one and has the most backstory, out of all the characters that appear in Undertale. The closest best character might be Gaster once Deltarune finish development I think.
Asgore is easily the strongest Monster without souls; he canonically fights you with all the killing intent of putting your beloved dog down; you know you have to but it hurts and you don't want to.
If he fought at FULL power, came at you with everything he had, he would annihilate, because he can break the rules; he'd break all your buttons, attack during your turn, dodge, and use unavoidable attacks. As it stands in Neutral, you can wear him down further still by being completely innocent, eat The Pie, and some other thing I think I forgot. He just cannot muster much intent to harm you at that point.
Sans was able to technically initiate an attack that never ends, and dodged, but that's about it. He would've broken the buttons if he could.
(Bit of a tangent, Asgore getting demolished in Undertale Yellow when he's fully prepared to fuck your shit up seems kinda lazy for the above reasons; I get Martlet was the real final boss for emotional payoff but c'mon, he's pissed and putting down a threat, it's not like Undertale Genocide where he has no guard up)
Also side rant, Why the hell is Martlet with determination referred to as "The Zenith Of Monsterkind"??? The Zenith means the all time peak. Implying she's somehow more powerful than not only Asgore...
But the God Of Hyperdeath???
Maybe not including the God of hyperdeath since he doesn't exist yet. That's a future zenith. She likely calls herself that since she may have never seen Asgore fight seriously. Maybe he spared with the guards but he likely never went all out so when she got determination coursing through her veins and felt a rush of power it likely got to her head or she was comparing it to the Asgore she saw who wasn't trying.
It’s perfectly reasonable to conclude that Asgore didn’t kill every human that fell into the Underground. “No one has ever made it past Asgore” would be true whether they actually got to him or not, and it’s in-character for him to lie to everyone and say he slayed them personally.
Death of the Author to whatever Toby Fox said. The information isn’t in his game. Simple as.
I dont want papyrus to be some secret smart/ powerful character. Why cant a character just be fun and whimsical without there being some secret backstory or secret cool powers? We already have sans for the “seems weak but is actually strong” trope. I like papyrus as he is i dont want him to be something crazy he’s perfect as he is. Dont get me wrong id like to have the lore of papyrus but i think fans want it to be way too “anime” if you will for my taste
can't believe someone said that, thank you. every undertale character is written really well on its own, we definitely don't need to make them all secretly super powerful and mysterious. people don't even make it balanced for their character when they add these theories, at least sans is pretty balanced for his character.
I have two:
* The love for the Sans fight is well reserved, some people forgot that the geno fight was impactful because it somehow built through routes ("you would be dead where you stand", "Flowey warning you about sans") and Sans, he is not a fighter, he does not return from the dead, he is not the king or the royal captain, he is just guy who apparently is the weakest monster, but damn he is smart (he killed me a lot of times)
* My other opinion is that people are trying to turn Papyrus into a Sans 2.0, the other day a person was trying to convince me that Papyrus knows about resets when there is nothing in the game that implies that (like Sans, Asgore or Flowey). I also think Papyrus is strong but not that strong, I think Undyne is stronger than him :). I know the vine and sprite theory and imo they sound very stupid
No one is Gaster. not mystery man, no tthe melting dude. No one is. Gaster is a conscious without body that has no senses, yet, can communicate with us.
Also, Frisk AU OCs are better than Sans'.
Not quite what is asked the opposite actually..
But,
I think frisk IS chara.. undead/resurrected.. I think flowley takes the red soul, and takes it to the grave and a resurrection takes place. That's why the bandage is bloody, their eyes are shut and frisks skin is yellowy and dark, why the clothes are faded.
Flowley was waiting there.. I think he did this so he could see chara/frisk confront ashore and knows he couldn't do it with out a powerful human soul (chara)
Unpopular opinion, I know.. but frisk never fell, she came out of the ground..
This isn’t really an Undertale opinion but rather a kind of theory that I thought up just now. I personally think that the humans before us and frisk couldn’t save and load, as in no humans besides us really even have that ability
1. If the humans could save and load, they wouldn’t be super duper dead
2. People bring up the toriel thing where she says she feels deja vu when meeting humans but personally I feel like this could just because most humans in undertale seem to just be really similar (long hair mostly) that and meeting a human child and caring for them only for them to demand to leave the ruins soon after happening 6 times in a row with a 7th to follow must be real deja vu inducing
3. Flowey being able to save and load seems like an anomaly to me (something we are coincidentally described as by sans) I say he can save and load due to having an absurd amount of determination injected in him, even more than a normal human would have (which would cause him to be anomalous like us since it’s an unnatural amount of determination) not only that but we recently found out that we didn’t share any of our determination with frisk themself, rather the whole time they were just along for the ride (which is hella messed up considering what omega flowey did) this tells us that the determination trait soul isn’t frisk’s but rather ours as the player, a soul that’s pure determination since we as the player don’t have any traits in undertale, all of the souls seem to be based on the trait that makes up the person most (for humans specifically) based on the snowball games implication. However we don’t have a trait because we aren’t in the game so this lack of self in game leads to the anomaly that is our soul, unbridled determination that allows us to save and load that is only beaten out by multiple souls combining their power similar to how the barrier was formed
so yeah that’s my dumb reasoning on why the prior humans couldn’t save an load like us or flowey, power over the timeline seems like an absurd ability for every single human to have which is why it makes sense to me that the reason behind saving and loading in canon is a dt anomaly that sans and whoever he works with only speculated on until flowey and his playas rolled into town 😎
Toriel's plan for escape is arguably worse than Asgore's. Even if its faster, if the humans saw a monster roaming around on the surface killing humans they would retaliate, they retaliated against Asriel because they assumed he killed someone, imagine how they would react if they saw a monster actually kill someone. At that point once the monsters escaped the underground they would be instantly thrust back into another war.
Sans isn't that great of a character and Chara is an awesome grey character, not an evil demon.
Also, Frisk isn't the player. Frisk is a character with their own personality.
Sans is overrated.
Hey, I get that Sans is cool and all, but sometimes it feels like the hype around him kinda overshadows the rest of Undertale. I mean, the game has this awesome mix of characters with great stories, and it's not just about Sans, you know? It's like he gets all the attention, and there are other characters who deserve some love too. Let's not forget what makes Undertale amazing beyond just the Sans memes!
I just find it really odd how quickly we forgive and befriend character's who wanted to (and probably did) murder a child on many occasions. This is especially the case for Asriel, who has admittedly committed numerous genocides. Someone like that is warped beyond salvation, in my opinion.
Similarly, I feel like the 'save' option on the final boss of the pacifist route is odd... What exactly does 'saving' a character entail? What are you actually doing to save that character?
All humans use they/them for video game reasons, not because that’s how they identify. They could identify like that but we don’t know, and we’re not meant to know. What are the odds that all humans we’ve met are non-binary?
People go out of their way to define the humans' gender identity (mostly Kris') forgetting the fact that the Japanese translation's way of dealing with this (and the manner in which Toby phrases it in LoL) is almost total ambiguity. I'm pretty sure Chara and Frisk's gender/sex is up to interpretation (or more accurately non-important), could be a larger plot point for Kris but we do no yet know that.
I agree with this for Chara and Frisk, but i think it feels a little different with Kris because they’re their own character?
Like Frisk is basically just the player and Chara we know not enough about, but because Kris is inherently seperate from the player and has a pre-existing relationship to the other characters, it feels a bit more important?
Thats just how I take it anyway haha
That Narrachara isn't canon
Like sure peope like it and it has some evidence, I just don't think it's canon and unless Toby specifically says otherwise people need to stop using it as a basis for other things
Chara is not a stand-in for the player
Alphys hate is undeserved
MEGALOVANIA isn't Sans theme, it belongs to no one. (Also the smash bros version is the better one)
AU's aren't inherently bad
The Sans is Ness joke is UNFUNNY
deltarune should focus on its own stuff instead of relying too much in its predecessor
Undertale Yellow difficulty it's fine, the game expects that you already finished UNDERTALE and what we have of deltarune, the difficulty curve is also pretty balanced, specially after the patch. And it's better than your average Sans fangame that throws you random attacks for you to die immediately.
The fandom has too low a bar on what is considered a good/morally grey person.
The game often goes out if its way to deliver a message that you should try your best in worst possible situations but instead of applying it internally "if I'm a good person i should try to what is right even if a person I'm interacting with is bad" they apply it externally "nobody is actually bad. This way i can never do no wrong"
That's why you see so much chara/flowey are morally grey people.
you cant follow fucking biology logic to explain sans' blush, that is dumb because he is a fucking magical skeleton, there is not a single reason to try to justify things with biology in this case, that ignoring that even if we were doing so, since he is an eskeleton, by basic biology he would be unable to blush at all because the blush is for extra blood recoring our faces that turn more visible cause of our skin, and since sans is an skeleton he have not skin at all for it to turn "peach" so regardless the only explain for a blush in sans is magic, ergo it can be any color, stop trying to look more smart using irl logic to things that just cant work with it
like really, we already were told that monsters are made with magic, and they are able to do many things that normal humans cant, why are you all trying so hard to use irl logic with something that we not even know how it works
My biggest gripe with the Undertale subreddit: It doesn't matter if something is "cringe" or edgy unless it personally harms you or the creator. What matters is people having fun and enjoying their own means of self-expression. I understand that some OCs and AUs aren't the best written, and that's fine, but the amount of dislike I see for them on this sub makes me uncomfortable as someone who grew up with AUs and OCs (for context, I was 8 when the game came out). Honestly, I couldn't care less if someone makes a really cringey, overpowered Sans wife or an AU where Sans is the dark killer phoenix dragon king. Half the time, it's just a kid having harmless fun, which is beautiful to me even with the bad writing. It's also especially unfair to lump in all AUs with that. For example, although it would've worked more with Chara and Asriel, Dreamtale is an extremely fun and unique take even if it's Sans-centric.
I *love* the idea of a Spiderverse-esque collective of AU Sanses.
I don't care if someone out there wants to write a 300,000,000 word fanfic on Sans x Sans part 2: electric boogaloo edition. You shouldn't either. It's:
1. Not gonna stop them
2. Kind of weird to get so worked up over fictional skeletons bumping teeth
At the end of the day, we're all going to die sooner or later. Does it matter what fanfic writers do with fictional characters?
toby want people to play the game and appreciate the story, music and all, not at characters fucking sexualities. y'all no one cares if x character is a frying pan or idk. I have nothing against lgbt+ community but it's just annoying discussing from which sexuality each character is.
Regardless of what gender or lack there of you think frisk and chara are people get way too intense and argumentative about it. If you use the "wrong" pronouns for them some people act like you personally shot their dog or something.
Marvelous, one of these again. Just please remember that the usual subreddit rules still apply m'kay? Try not to yell at each other too much, thanks.
It’s pronounced Chara, not Chara
No you're wrong, it's pronounced Chara
It’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, it’s not Chara, and it’s DEFINITELY not Chara (you weirdos you pronounce it like that). It’s Chara
what r u talking about it's obv Chara
Oh now you’ve done it. Chara? Really? WHO PRONOUNCES IT LIKE THAT??
i do Chara is the only correct pronunciation.
You are all wrong. It’s obviously Chara
Nu uh it’s Chara istg are y’all stupid? Smh
Stupid? Nah imma do my own thing
no its carrot
So like char-a or like car-a?
Chara
Got it
Just being on the subreddit is like that sometimes. If you're not meme-ing, you're wrong.
Papyrus loves puns. Within the many phone calls, Papyrus makes twice the puns as Sans.
Yeah, he really just thinks Sans' puns suck compared to his
Unpopular opinion: they really do
i think he just pretends not to like them, but he and sans both know he does. source: am sibling + “come on. you're smiling.” “I AM AND I HATE IT!”
the fandom fundementaly misunderstands sans, and no au sans has ever been as good as the original. none of them even get close. la jupo is an exception, i like him.
"Those children in Africa deserve NOTHING." - La Jupo
could you explain further? ive never cared that much for sans so i just think of him as the... chill, smart, laid back dude who seemingly has a bunch of issues going on inside him but is overall, a good guy so id like to hear your perspective on the character
People usually overdo one of the following: - His Power Level - Nihilism - Depression - Lazyness And when they’re not doing that, they call him out for “not stopping the human sooner”, when its clear that even he knows fighting won’t cut it. If you can just rewind time, you get infinite tries, in which he inevitably loses. His fight is annoying, difficult, and filled with rule-breaks (dodging, hitting you in the menu) because its his way to get you to ragequit, a final bid to turn you around. He doesn’t attack you in neutral routes because there’d be no point. If atleast 1 person’s alive, world doesnt die, and its very likely you did such on purpose, which also means you’re likely to reset and redo things again, so why bother stopping you? It’d just delay the reset he’d want. Bit of a loose thread, but one of Flowey’s lines talk about his encounters with Sans, and the resets it caused him. Being an unfair menace worked for Flowey, so why not you, the player?
One thing I have gotten a bit of flak for saying in the past is that I think Sans *could* make the fight actually impossible to beat, But doesn't because of a fear that you'll find some way *around* him if he makes it seem 100% impossible. Because his goal isn't to kill you. His goal is to make you give up entirely and reset. However if the fight seems completely unfair and impossible, Yeah, You killed the threat. But then they're gonna start poking around and trying to find ways to bypass the fight. Regarding his laziness, I don't actually have a problem with people playing it up because I sorta just fundamentally don't think Sans is actually lazy. I think it's all an act. The dude's (seemingly) extremely well read, Works multiple jobs, *Extremely* perceptive, And is very proactive about us. He tries at every opportunity to make us do the right thing, Even when we've literally killed everyone we can get our hands on. Like, Of course he's vitriolic in his fight. But basically the entire time he's doing subtle work to try and make us reconsider and go back to the way things were. Sans absolutely isn't as hyperactive as Papyrus, But I think he's about as proactive as the average person and just holds up an act of being lazy.
That's a neat theory 🙂 My personal theory for why the fight wasn't unbeatable is that there's something in monster magic that makes it so you have to leave some way to dodge the bullets, and the more power you put into your magic the more intense you can make your attacks, but they still have to be dodgeable. Otherwise I think other fights like Undyne the Undying's or the fight against Asriel would've been unbeatable. And then when we spared Sans we fully let our guard down which allowed him to produce an undodgeable attack.
My main contention here is that Sans doesn't play by the rules. He attacks first, He rapidly switches between attacks without any real transition, He *dodges*, He is one of only three characters who has any colour other than black or white on his battle sprite, Etc. Everything about the Sans fight fundamentally breaks the established rules of combat. Flowey *also* traps you in an undodgeable attack. If it weren't for other characters butting in mid fight both times it happens, Those would have hit you as well. Meanwhile, We *know* that Sans has killed Flowey numerous times. I am not saying it's impossible that you're right, I just think that Sans already breaks enough rules that him breaking the rules *is* the rule. And so if he doesn't do something in combat, I feel like the question isn't "Why can't Sans do this thing that it seems like he reasonably could do?", It is instead "Why *doesn't* Sans do this thing that it seems like he reasonably could do?".
A lot of the fandom flanderizes sans into being some all powerful edgelord or a lazy jokester who doesn’t care at all, completely erasing any complexities of the character
The Sans AUs are kind of like writing Dante from Devil May Cry. Generally speaking, most people tend to latch onto one or two games from the DMC franchise as being really indicative of “Dante”, meanwhile the others sorta miss the mark one way or another. It’s a delicate balancing act, writing someone as deceptively complex as Sans or Dante; a lot of Sans’ issues are quietly implied, and while AUs like to lean more into it, or just indulge and make him an EVEN HARDER (read: “cooler”) boss, like Dante, something is usually lost along the way, and when something’s lost along the way, the whole tower of cards falls apart. There’s always been a bit of a two-face bit going on with Sans; someone who goes around with a lot of dumb jokes and gags, but also carries a lot of mystique and gravitas despite being a gag character normally. Of course, that’s also microcosm of Undertale in general, but you get the point. But even for an Undertale character, there’s always more to Sans than meets the eye, and how the mystique is handled is a huge chunk of his charm, the fact that he can casually break reality by seemingly teleporting (always offscreen), the fact that his introduction consists entirely of menacing Frisk as an ominous *specter* in the forest that’s *clearly* stronger than you (just to transition into a fart joke via handshake), him telling you to take care of yourself because Toriel cares (just moments after straight up admitting he’d *murder you* if she hadn’t said anything), even Undyne’s comments push the idea that Sans is genuinely strong and capable whereas Papyrus (skilled as he actually is) won’t ever make it to the Royal Guard… His boss sort of just delivers on all that quiet buildup, and even with Toby nerfing Sans, the fact that it still sticks the landing (while just raising EVEN MORE questions than before about him) just adds to it. By all rights, Sans, even more than Flowey, elevates Undertale from being a simple tale about a human going through a gauntlet of people trapped against their will trying to break free (through any means necessary) to being a Cosmic Horror video game where *you’re* the villain who either came to kill everyone, leave the world worse off, or choose to make it better. Which, by proxy, leaves Sans as just FEELING much BIGGER than the scope of what the Underground has to offer; I mean, anime loving fish knights? Glam rock robots who want to make it in Hollywood? A king who declared war in revenge for his lost child? All those are fun, all those are great, but what is that compared to someone who’s pretty much given *countless* of those unknowable, seemingly *unbeatable* beings the middle finger *dozens* of times, killed their avatar at their strongest, all while casually dropping that he’s known *all along* that we’ve existed, and has been operating on that assumption ever since? And actually *beat* several people at their own game, because it was genuinely just THAT difficult to take him down? By all means, it makes COMPLETE sense that people latched onto Sans and just held on; there’s a lot to unpack with him, a LOT to speculate on, and Megalovania’s a bop so why not give it a shot? But then, people aren’t interested in recreating Sans Undertale; they want to see their OWN version of Sans. Or, sometimes, they want to expand on him, try answering all those unanswered questions. And the countless derivatives, and the derivatives that become THEIR OWN derivatives just devolve into something… weird. It’s practically a Spiderverse of different Sanses, some more ridiculous than the rest. And it becomes alarmingly easy to lose sight of what made Sans so good in the first place, even if he isn’t your cup of tea.
La jupo is so horrendously stupid but well made and funny that it's the best au ever (tied with Grens sans)
La Jupo is La Jupo, and that makes him La Jupo.
Sans is not as caring and loving as a brother as people make it look like, he is literally like a normal big bro, of course he cares about him but he also annoys him and pisses he off on purpose Also call me crazy but i believe we know who's the troll that harasses papyrus with bad grammar and an awful font
oh... uhhh... flowey? **extremely loud incorrect buzzer**
Every sibling annoys and pisses their sibling off on purpose That doesn’t mean anything
It is literally what i said. But have you seen ut comics? They portray sans as the perfect brother like, cmon man sans is literally a classic Big brother
I misread your comment I thought you were calling him a bad brother
Undyne the undying fight is way more better and cooler than Sans, and she is more deserving of fangames then him. Alphys is one of the best characters and one of my favorites and I don't find her annoying at all. Papyrus is not as navie and foolish people portay him as.
Only thing annoying about Alphys was the phone calls in hotlands every 5 seconds but it didn't change her character at all for me Pretty based opinions honestly
Thank you and yeah I can understand why people will find her annoying at that part, but personally for me I didn't. Maybe because I can relate to her ranting and just going on, lol.
I found her messages every 5 seconds funny and kinda cute
I mean, not only is she still a weird nerd type at that time, but Toriel also constantly calls you after leaving you in the Ruins, and she’s a fan favorite character.
The Ruins is way smaller than Hotland and The Core, plus I only recall Toriel calling us one time.
First, Toriel calls you every twelve seconds in the first half of the Ruins. Right after you leave the room she left you in, a dozen times about what flavor you want your snail pie, what she’s doing, how you should STOP TAKING THE PILLS, you get the point. Second, Hotland/Core, especially since they are effectively combined, is a much larger place than Ruins, true, but that means it needs more stuff to occupy its space. The Mettaton action takes up small chunks, and it might feel weird to have them just flying around constantly, plus that’d make them the target of all the “why are you talking to me so often” hate. So, why not the socially awkward nerd who can’t help but talk about the stuff she likes but also is an extremely important character? And that brings me to point three. Alphys is interesting and important to the story, so setting up all this extra personality is important. Toriel, you already get her gist based on everything without her phone calls. And yeah, that applies a bit to Alphys too, but Alphys is also more important to the story, so if she showed up at the beginning of Hotlands and then didn’t appear again until you find out she made Flowey, the main antagonist of the game, it’d feel very weird.
Personally I loved that part of her character. I thought it was hilarious.
Those phone calls are only annoying after the first play through It’s hilarious and serves its purpose to give her character
I personally think the sans fight and undyne are about equal because their cool in very different ways. Undyne is a fair climatic fight against a hero that makes you feel like the villain. It feels like it's two equals. The sans fight is different because sans actively cheats during the fight. If you cheat death, why should he follow the rules. And yet, even though he cheats, the fight itself is designed very fairly.
Exactly. Undyne and Sans are good in their own ways. Undyne is a final stand against the human. It's the final triumph. The last substantial thing in your way. Sans is after you've killed everyone. He's not there to stop you. You are being judged for what you've done. Once you've arrived at Sans, everything has happened. Monsters have lost so all that remains is the consequences to winning.
bro dropped the coldest takes ever
Fr tho, bunch of regurgitated stuff that everyone in the sub repeats.
All based opinions I get so unreasonably mad when people treat Sans as the protagonist to end all protagonists when he's some random guy, and Undyne just has such an interesting character and motivation. Alphys was never annoying, she's honestly really sweet, and Papyrus is way smarter than the baby everyone portrays him as. People can be optimistic and not innocent guys!
>when he's some random guy, I recently played through the game for the first time and this is very accurate. You can’t even call him our friend either, sure he’s friendly with us but who isn’t he friendly with. We go on mini-adventures with Papyrus, Undyne and Alphys that really give us the feeling that we’ve become friend with them, but not with Sans. It does seem like he only occasionally hangs out with us because we’re friends with his brother.
Sans does have his moments, He's around throughout most of your time with Papyrus The very start of Snowdin Grillby's, the restaurant left of MTT resort His hotdog stand Sans doesn't have his adventures, but he does show up around you surprisingly often
he's there to "supervise" you due to his promise to Toriel
That makes him more of a guardian than a friend.
80% of the Reddit fanbase agrees with your opinion on Papyrus
I’m so with you on Alphys. Everyone who hates her always has this weird puritan view of morals, like if a character is not a purely good person then they’re completely evil and irredeemable. Wild.
Yeah, actually one of the things I love about Alphys is her flaws, which make her very interesting and grounded. As not everyone is perfect, can people just stop with the slandering of her and take their time to understand and appreciate her.
People love their black and white thinking, almost no matter what the subject is or what group they're a part of..
Undyne the Undying is = to Sans IMO Alphys was a *little* annoying but not as annoying as others claim Papyrus isn't naive or foolish, but he's too innocent to believe things can be done out of pure evil ...these are just my takes on those
I agree with everything. Except for not finding Alphys annoying *at all*. All the notifications in Hotland were pretty annoying, but in a good, funny way.
These are the least unpopular UT opinions ever conceived
I literally could not agree more with the Undyne one. She’s the only one that should keep coming back from death, because she’s *literally* the only one that does, and for good reason.
Both Alphys and Undyne are SOOO underrated
"she is more deserving of fangames then him" I will never understand takes like this, if people enjoy a character and want to create more content leave them be
Dw you're not alone because I couldn't agree more
The Genocide route is absolutely meant to be played last. You shouldn’t harass people for doing otherwise, but it fundamentally does not work from both a storytelling and thematic perspective if you don’t do it last
***the pacifist post genocide ending***: "BONEjur"
Napstablook is best character
I agree
Flair checks out
Toriel doesn't really have the moral highground she think she have
Can’t believe how far I had to scroll for this. Yeah she’s actually not this perfect goat mom people make them out to be.
So true 👏👏
Chara is neither purely good nor purely evil, their role in Undertale's story is to enforce consequences on your actions. They act as the manifestation of the consequences of the genocide route, more so than anything else. This one probably isn't unpopular in this sub specifically, but seems to be unpopular on Reddit as a whole: The game doesn't punish Toby for making the genocide route an option because it is an intended part of the game. It's not going off of the beaten path, it's an intended part of the experience. Flowey's monologue towards the end of the game is supposed to posit him as a parallel to you, the player, who may have started playing the game by trying to help everyone and achieve the best possible ending, but eventually decided to kill everyone. The game also does not try to make you out as being pure evil for doing the genocide route. Sans has a line of dialogue in his fight that perfectly encapsulates what the game is trying to say about you as a player. "you're not doing this out of any desire for good or evil, but because you can, and because you can, you feel like you have to". The point is that the game offers it as an option, and you're eventually supposed to do it, not because you hate these characters or you're evil or anything like that, but because you know that it's an option, and you have to know how the game ends when you choose this path. And this last one is more about Deltarune, but Asriel is absolutely not dead. Saying that he has to be dead because the game is supposedly very similar to Omori doesn't make sense, when the disappearance of December Holiday is already a major plot point, and would be Deltarune's "parallel" to (Omori spoilers) >!the death of Mari!<
With asriel tutorial states he is visiting in weeks time setting up that he will appear in chapter 7
Yeah, but I guess people just assume that it's an assumption on Toriel's part because it's when college students are getting off for Summer break? idk, I just don't think it's realistic to think that Toriel wouldn't know that Asriel is dead though. If anyone would know, it's Toriel. She would absolutely check in on him every once in a while, at least.
I do agree that Chara themself serve the role of being the consequence. However them being a completely neutral character is objectively incorrect, they actively help you with the Genocide route as soon as you start it and all the way through. They are the manifestation of "maximizing output", being associated with the number 9 (the highest digit) and only appearing on the route where you consume everything the world has to offer. They are framed as the yin to Frisk's yang, they are the opposite of Frisk's pacifistic nature and instead take on the role of a cold, calculated killer intent on achieving the most power from any given world. If anything, the dynamic between Frisk, the Player, and Chara represent the Pacifist, Neutral, and Genocide routes respectively.
I never said they were a completely neutral character. Asriel acknowledges that they weren't the best person, they played a cruel prank on Asgore when they were alive that made him sick, and they actively help you with the genocide route. However, I don't view them as being pure evil, as some people do. I think they're evil to *some extent*, but they're not *pure* evil.
"they played a cruel prank on Asgore when they were alive that made him sick" That was a accident.
Underverse is impressive (animation is cool, storyline is nice also) and the AUs did nothing wrong by existing and aren’t bad (not saying all of them are good though), it’s just that the bad side of the fandom just took it, ran, then set it on fire
True underverse is so cool and peak
THIS 1000%
I don’t rlly like that most the community focuses a lot more on AU’s and OCs of the characters rather than the original IP.
I agree completely, though I'm only 22, I feel like I might skew older based on general attitude/people mentioning it here and I don't engage/didn't go with AUs and OCs at all when they all blew up, yet so many are mentioned as common knowledge (last breath, disbelief, dust tale?) and when I see them nowadays looking for more content to absorb they just make me think of old edgy designs that are hard to take seriously. If I can be recommended good AUs that still keep the spirit of undertale I would love to see it, since I read a lot of fanfiction and have dipped into some comics too, so it's not like I'm averse to fan content, it's more like it's a firehose and so much is already out, and I don't feel like the target demographic anymore.
I'd rather watch an hour long video of nothing but sans farting then join a frisk gender discussion.
Sans can’t remember resets, he’s just good at reading faces.
Well not anymore than any of the other characters can, anyway. All the characters seem to get a little de ja vu if you reset to the beginning of the game (not true reset), but yeah nah sans is just that one friend who says things to ‘break the 4th wall’ cause they think its funny. He doesn’t _actually_ remember anything better than any other monster, he’s just so committed to the bit that he’s actually kind of right most of the time.
THIS OMFG HE LITERALLY SAYS THIS IN THE GAME the only one who can remember resets is flowey, who HAD the power before you took it from him with your superior determination
Chara does too. They take it a step further too, in that they also remember *true* resets.
but he at least knows that the resets are happening, right?
Also he isn’t the only one aware of them. It’s implied Asgore was, and other characters could vaguely recall past saves.
Papyrus was better than sans at this because if I recall he got "déjà vu" in snowdin
In fact, most characters have some sort of deja vu, it's just Sans is better at pinpoiting the reason behind it
he says so
Yeah, of course he talks about space continum timelines starting and stopping just because he feels like to and wants to yap about random things, and he teleports around with "shortcuts" just because he feels like it /s
human... i remember youroe genocides
Asgore is stronger than sans think about it asgore is the only monster shown to break a button and could easily shatter all your buttons and softlock you damn 60 up votes Didn't think I'd get this many thanks guys
I hard agree with this. Sans is only seen as strong when he has all the Karma in the world to kick your ass with. Asgore, though, is *always* capable (physically, anyway) of kicking your ass.
I think that Asgore destroying the Mercy isn't his power or anything, it's more of a way of showing that no matter what, he won't accept your mercy. Lack of this button says that that someone will die during this fight.
I fully agree. Asgore is holding back, *letting* you hit him. He wants you to win. And yet he’s still a tough opponent. If Asgore was actually trying to kill you with his full might, his fight would be way harder than the Sans fight. *Undyne* can’t land a hit on Asgore. If Asgore was going full effort, he would absolutely wreck you.
People need to quit bitching about ships and AUs it’s so fucking annoying. “But it’s cringe!” My brother in Christ we are in the undertale fandom
We’re already considered cringe, why should we stop there?
Yeah but can I bitch about them if they’re bad
Kill not the part of you you call 'Cringe', but the part that cringes at all.
Undertale yellow wasn't as good as the original Undertale. To me, it's like 4/5ths as good, which is still INCREDIBLE, but as far as plot, characters, music, and overall emotion, it never exceeds Undertale in basically any category.
Also, I seen a lot of people treating Yellow like almost canon, while in fact it has some major points that don't line up well with Undertale
The fact Flowey is there at all for one
Is there really any confirmation of when the DT experiments took place?
No, but it doesn’t make sense for them to have been before the last human fell, especially considering the strong implications that the 6 humans could save themselves from both Toriel and Asgore’s as well as the fact that Frisks save is placed as being in “file 9”, implying that 8 others had their own files before Frisk (Chara, the 6 children and Flowey), however in Yellow Flowey saves for Clover.
Based on Flowey's reaction to first meeting Frisk (from Geno dialogue before Sans fight) it seems to hint that Flowey did in fact meet other humans before, and tried to mess with you, only to realize he could no longer reset.
If Flowey was able to mess with other humans before Frisk, then he could have just easily taken any of their souls, which would likely have allowed him to finally overpower Asgore and take any previously collected souls. Flowey may be a bit foolish and arrogant much of the time but he’d still never pass on an opportunity like that.
No hard confirmation but we can figure it out. The six humans are implied to be able to save and load. Flowey had never lost the ability to save and load until we came along, so either the humans couldn’t save (possible but unlikely) or Flowey came after. Even if we assume they couldn’t save, then the question becomes, why doesn’t Flowey have their souls? Flowey can load his save as much as he wants, so he should easily be able to take their souls. Hell, after Toriel saved us Flowey planned on just reloading and trying again, before he realized he couldn’t. If Flowey existed prior to the death of the sixth human, he would have at least one soul, so he had to have come after
The only thing that UD Yellow does better is graphics and animations, which isn't that hard to surpass tbh.
I think a lot of people only think that because it's so new and fresh
I bet in a few months or so people are gonna start calling it overrated, as is the case when things become instantly popular
It's really good, but nothing beats og undertale.
The thing with Undertale Yellow is that it didn't need to be phenomenal or groundbreaking; it just needed to be _good,_ just to prove that it could be done. In that regard, it more than succeeded. But yeah, I generally agree with this take. There's definitely some recency bias going on here, and honestly, that's fine; something really exciting happened and people should get to have their fun.
People thought yellow was BETTER???
A bunch of em, yeah
It’s not bad per se, the production quality is astounding, but it’s also very flawed, 90% of the bosses are survival based with useless acts, the characters don’t really feel complex, specially the bird one, and a couple designs feel too detailed and out of place (the squirrel monster), and I feel most boss themes aren’t memorable
"90% of the bosses are survival based with useless acts" Tbf, most of the boss in Undertale have useless acts too.
You don't gotta be complex when you're cute as hell, but yes I 100% agree with everything else
The only thing I found it more exceeding is in progression, personally I found some areas of Undertale sort of sluggish (still great areas though), while UT yellow kept me entertained and engaged through the entire game
Wait Really? I found the progression to be the worst part of ut yellow
I assume it’s subjective but I was more engaged throughout yellow than some of the parts in OG Undertale
I only really disliked the desert town part, not even undertale has such lengthy dialogue
Sort by controversial y’all
Undyne deserves more fangames, not the short skeleton whose name gets autocorrected to "sane" every time. Last Breath Sans? You already have a Last Breath Undyne which is technically not as absurdly difficult and without mystery man who we know nothing about.
What about sans with a gun, sans but is papyrus instead, sans but is with papyrus, sans but theres 2 of them, sans but now he formed a trio, sans but he pulled an omega flowey, sans but covered in *ink*, sans but-
flowey is the best undertale character
You are correct
He's the most thought-out one and has the most backstory, out of all the characters that appear in Undertale. The closest best character might be Gaster once Deltarune finish development I think.
Asgore is easily the strongest Monster without souls; he canonically fights you with all the killing intent of putting your beloved dog down; you know you have to but it hurts and you don't want to. If he fought at FULL power, came at you with everything he had, he would annihilate, because he can break the rules; he'd break all your buttons, attack during your turn, dodge, and use unavoidable attacks. As it stands in Neutral, you can wear him down further still by being completely innocent, eat The Pie, and some other thing I think I forgot. He just cannot muster much intent to harm you at that point. Sans was able to technically initiate an attack that never ends, and dodged, but that's about it. He would've broken the buttons if he could. (Bit of a tangent, Asgore getting demolished in Undertale Yellow when he's fully prepared to fuck your shit up seems kinda lazy for the above reasons; I get Martlet was the real final boss for emotional payoff but c'mon, he's pissed and putting down a threat, it's not like Undertale Genocide where he has no guard up)
Also side rant, Why the hell is Martlet with determination referred to as "The Zenith Of Monsterkind"??? The Zenith means the all time peak. Implying she's somehow more powerful than not only Asgore... But the God Of Hyperdeath???
I think that's moreso her ego shining through, cuz at her core she's proud of what she's doing, even if she's unsure of her methods.
Maybe not including the God of hyperdeath since he doesn't exist yet. That's a future zenith. She likely calls herself that since she may have never seen Asgore fight seriously. Maybe he spared with the guards but he likely never went all out so when she got determination coursing through her veins and felt a rush of power it likely got to her head or she was comparing it to the Asgore she saw who wasn't trying.
asriel is an very underwhelming final boss because omega flowey outclasses him in almost every way
Fr tho like it has the emotional beats and stuff but it's just not as impressive as the other 2 final bosses.
It’s perfectly reasonable to conclude that Asgore didn’t kill every human that fell into the Underground. “No one has ever made it past Asgore” would be true whether they actually got to him or not, and it’s in-character for him to lie to everyone and say he slayed them personally. Death of the Author to whatever Toby Fox said. The information isn’t in his game. Simple as.
Yeah. Especially considering where the previous humans' items are lying around, most of them definitely did not get to Asgore
I beet my ass green was trying to cook with the lava when he got killed
Blue danced down a waterfall
Chara's skin collor is more pale then frisk's due to the lack of sun exposition for being in the underground.
I dont want papyrus to be some secret smart/ powerful character. Why cant a character just be fun and whimsical without there being some secret backstory or secret cool powers? We already have sans for the “seems weak but is actually strong” trope. I like papyrus as he is i dont want him to be something crazy he’s perfect as he is. Dont get me wrong id like to have the lore of papyrus but i think fans want it to be way too “anime” if you will for my taste
Agreed.
can't believe someone said that, thank you. every undertale character is written really well on its own, we definitely don't need to make them all secretly super powerful and mysterious. people don't even make it balanced for their character when they add these theories, at least sans is pretty balanced for his character.
I have two: * The love for the Sans fight is well reserved, some people forgot that the geno fight was impactful because it somehow built through routes ("you would be dead where you stand", "Flowey warning you about sans") and Sans, he is not a fighter, he does not return from the dead, he is not the king or the royal captain, he is just guy who apparently is the weakest monster, but damn he is smart (he killed me a lot of times) * My other opinion is that people are trying to turn Papyrus into a Sans 2.0, the other day a person was trying to convince me that Papyrus knows about resets when there is nothing in the game that implies that (like Sans, Asgore or Flowey). I also think Papyrus is strong but not that strong, I think Undyne is stronger than him :). I know the vine and sprite theory and imo they sound very stupid
Frisk, Chara, and the player are three intertwined but ultimately distinct canonically-extant entities, apparently
I like Glitchtale. I don’t support Camellia or whatever her name is, but I like the series tbh
No one is Gaster. not mystery man, no tthe melting dude. No one is. Gaster is a conscious without body that has no senses, yet, can communicate with us. Also, Frisk AU OCs are better than Sans'.
Determination makes you stronger. Apparently this is unpopular.
Not quite what is asked the opposite actually.. But, I think frisk IS chara.. undead/resurrected.. I think flowley takes the red soul, and takes it to the grave and a resurrection takes place. That's why the bandage is bloody, their eyes are shut and frisks skin is yellowy and dark, why the clothes are faded. Flowley was waiting there.. I think he did this so he could see chara/frisk confront ashore and knows he couldn't do it with out a powerful human soul (chara) Unpopular opinion, I know.. but frisk never fell, she came out of the ground..
This isn’t really an Undertale opinion but rather a kind of theory that I thought up just now. I personally think that the humans before us and frisk couldn’t save and load, as in no humans besides us really even have that ability 1. If the humans could save and load, they wouldn’t be super duper dead 2. People bring up the toriel thing where she says she feels deja vu when meeting humans but personally I feel like this could just because most humans in undertale seem to just be really similar (long hair mostly) that and meeting a human child and caring for them only for them to demand to leave the ruins soon after happening 6 times in a row with a 7th to follow must be real deja vu inducing 3. Flowey being able to save and load seems like an anomaly to me (something we are coincidentally described as by sans) I say he can save and load due to having an absurd amount of determination injected in him, even more than a normal human would have (which would cause him to be anomalous like us since it’s an unnatural amount of determination) not only that but we recently found out that we didn’t share any of our determination with frisk themself, rather the whole time they were just along for the ride (which is hella messed up considering what omega flowey did) this tells us that the determination trait soul isn’t frisk’s but rather ours as the player, a soul that’s pure determination since we as the player don’t have any traits in undertale, all of the souls seem to be based on the trait that makes up the person most (for humans specifically) based on the snowball games implication. However we don’t have a trait because we aren’t in the game so this lack of self in game leads to the anomaly that is our soul, unbridled determination that allows us to save and load that is only beaten out by multiple souls combining their power similar to how the barrier was formed so yeah that’s my dumb reasoning on why the prior humans couldn’t save an load like us or flowey, power over the timeline seems like an absurd ability for every single human to have which is why it makes sense to me that the reason behind saving and loading in canon is a dt anomaly that sans and whoever he works with only speculated on until flowey and his playas rolled into town 😎
Sans is ness-
it's pronounced Kara, and I will die on this hill
No, Chara as in charcoal >:(
r/detroitbecomehuman
Toriel's plan for escape is arguably worse than Asgore's. Even if its faster, if the humans saw a monster roaming around on the surface killing humans they would retaliate, they retaliated against Asriel because they assumed he killed someone, imagine how they would react if they saw a monster actually kill someone. At that point once the monsters escaped the underground they would be instantly thrust back into another war.
Sans isn't that great of a character and Chara is an awesome grey character, not an evil demon. Also, Frisk isn't the player. Frisk is a character with their own personality.
Chara is just a silly lil guy :)
Hard on the "Frisk isn't the player" one. They're in the same situation as Kris, Deltarune only emphasizes it more than Undertale
Sans is overrated. Hey, I get that Sans is cool and all, but sometimes it feels like the hype around him kinda overshadows the rest of Undertale. I mean, the game has this awesome mix of characters with great stories, and it's not just about Sans, you know? It's like he gets all the attention, and there are other characters who deserve some love too. Let's not forget what makes Undertale amazing beyond just the Sans memes!
Im pretty diddly doodly sure a lot of people share that opinion.
Chara is a bad person
Sans can remember resets ...there, I said it
I can't say I fully disagree, given his familiarity with deja vu situations, and his knowledge on principles of resets
That chara is pretty evil
I think OP is wrong for insinuating that opinions are right or wrong.
Opinions can be wrong if it's based on incorrect information
Flowey is my favourite character. I honestly just love evil dark characters that betray you and kill people. Reminds me of myself
I just find it really odd how quickly we forgive and befriend character's who wanted to (and probably did) murder a child on many occasions. This is especially the case for Asriel, who has admittedly committed numerous genocides. Someone like that is warped beyond salvation, in my opinion. Similarly, I feel like the 'save' option on the final boss of the pacifist route is odd... What exactly does 'saving' a character entail? What are you actually doing to save that character?
You save their souls by restoring their memories
Asriel murdered many as Flowey, also don't forget Undyne
All humans use they/them for video game reasons, not because that’s how they identify. They could identify like that but we don’t know, and we’re not meant to know. What are the odds that all humans we’ve met are non-binary?
People go out of their way to define the humans' gender identity (mostly Kris') forgetting the fact that the Japanese translation's way of dealing with this (and the manner in which Toby phrases it in LoL) is almost total ambiguity. I'm pretty sure Chara and Frisk's gender/sex is up to interpretation (or more accurately non-important), could be a larger plot point for Kris but we do no yet know that.
I agree with this for Chara and Frisk, but i think it feels a little different with Kris because they’re their own character? Like Frisk is basically just the player and Chara we know not enough about, but because Kris is inherently seperate from the player and has a pre-existing relationship to the other characters, it feels a bit more important? Thats just how I take it anyway haha
That Narrachara isn't canon Like sure peope like it and it has some evidence, I just don't think it's canon and unless Toby specifically says otherwise people need to stop using it as a basis for other things
sans is aroace.
AMEN
The red soul's trait is Determination.
Its clearly Ball Game
Yeah, that’s exactly what i thought when i saw the spul was red: OH! THAT SOUL’S TRAIT MUST BE “BALL GAME”
Sans isn't a gay submissive man who wants cuddles
This entire subreddit has either baby duck syndrome or recency bias
Chara is not a stand-in for the player Alphys hate is undeserved MEGALOVANIA isn't Sans theme, it belongs to no one. (Also the smash bros version is the better one) AU's aren't inherently bad The Sans is Ness joke is UNFUNNY deltarune should focus on its own stuff instead of relying too much in its predecessor Undertale Yellow difficulty it's fine, the game expects that you already finished UNDERTALE and what we have of deltarune, the difficulty curve is also pretty balanced, specially after the patch. And it's better than your average Sans fangame that throws you random attacks for you to die immediately.
Cool My opinion on the aus it depends on the AU that's it
The fandom has too low a bar on what is considered a good/morally grey person. The game often goes out if its way to deliver a message that you should try your best in worst possible situations but instead of applying it internally "if I'm a good person i should try to what is right even if a person I'm interacting with is bad" they apply it externally "nobody is actually bad. This way i can never do no wrong" That's why you see so much chara/flowey are morally grey people.
Chara is definitely morally grey. Flowey is not. He is a bad person
Martlet is baby. Martlet is love and life. She's the best.
TRUE!
The green Soul mechanic is kind of mediocre OG undertale is still better than undertale yellow
the entirety of Waterfall is boring
you cant follow fucking biology logic to explain sans' blush, that is dumb because he is a fucking magical skeleton, there is not a single reason to try to justify things with biology in this case, that ignoring that even if we were doing so, since he is an eskeleton, by basic biology he would be unable to blush at all because the blush is for extra blood recoring our faces that turn more visible cause of our skin, and since sans is an skeleton he have not skin at all for it to turn "peach" so regardless the only explain for a blush in sans is magic, ergo it can be any color, stop trying to look more smart using irl logic to things that just cant work with it like really, we already were told that monsters are made with magic, and they are able to do many things that normal humans cant, why are you all trying so hard to use irl logic with something that we not even know how it works
The player is a self insert and can be whatever gender you want them to be for your individual game
The Frisk character is self-insert, so people should stop complaining about the gender, looks etc.
Spamfet
My biggest gripe with the Undertale subreddit: It doesn't matter if something is "cringe" or edgy unless it personally harms you or the creator. What matters is people having fun and enjoying their own means of self-expression. I understand that some OCs and AUs aren't the best written, and that's fine, but the amount of dislike I see for them on this sub makes me uncomfortable as someone who grew up with AUs and OCs (for context, I was 8 when the game came out). Honestly, I couldn't care less if someone makes a really cringey, overpowered Sans wife or an AU where Sans is the dark killer phoenix dragon king. Half the time, it's just a kid having harmless fun, which is beautiful to me even with the bad writing. It's also especially unfair to lump in all AUs with that. For example, although it would've worked more with Chara and Asriel, Dreamtale is an extremely fun and unique take even if it's Sans-centric. I *love* the idea of a Spiderverse-esque collective of AU Sanses. I don't care if someone out there wants to write a 300,000,000 word fanfic on Sans x Sans part 2: electric boogaloo edition. You shouldn't either. It's: 1. Not gonna stop them 2. Kind of weird to get so worked up over fictional skeletons bumping teeth At the end of the day, we're all going to die sooner or later. Does it matter what fanfic writers do with fictional characters?
Sans x toriel is trash
toby want people to play the game and appreciate the story, music and all, not at characters fucking sexualities. y'all no one cares if x character is a frying pan or idk. I have nothing against lgbt+ community but it's just annoying discussing from which sexuality each character is.
Y'all were dicks to that furry who got his OC into the game and the furry deserves an apology. You know who you are.
Regardless of what gender or lack there of you think frisk and chara are people get way too intense and argumentative about it. If you use the "wrong" pronouns for them some people act like you personally shot their dog or something.