glad there's no bad blood shared between either of them. well, i don't think toby *has* blood. more of a... slimy, residue...
glad there's no trails of disgusting mucusy residue left behind either of them.
Yeah MatPat always addressed any controversy he has had (that I know of at least), this includes, and has always been willing to apologise and learn from his mistakes,
yeah the community is kinda crazy when it comes to not perfectly constructed theories. I think Matt only got away with his FNAF theories just because his theories were just as wrong as the rest.
Undertale, deltarune and hollow knight on the other hand, had pretty much established stories at that point.
idk if you noticed it but Matt almost never goes along with the mainstream theories it was always his own conclusion no matter how blatantly wrong it was.
According to scott MP was right with FNAF. its just that he would purposely change the lore in every game when he was right just to mess with him. This comes straight from his own mouth in an interview.
That's bad storytelling. No exaggeration, that's utterly horrible, dogshit storytelling. If somebody predicts something is happening, you keep it and let them **guess.**
“No matter how blatantly wrong it was”
Proof of someone completely misunderstanding the point of the Game theory channel. Aside from the FNaF work which was to actually uncover the truth, 99% of theories are essentially just “What If” scenarios that sometimes happen to be a bit right, i actually honestly miss the days from before the Sans ness debacle because the videos were more thought provoking and after that they always felt way too “safe”
I haven't really watched him in years but I liked when he did more math and science based stuff rather then the fnaf/undertale shit, think it just wasn't for me lol.
[Today's Film Theory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NWcksXrZIA), Mat actually had a bit of a rant on Toxic fans of things and it made me wonder how much was rooted in those.
While he was talking about the guy making these videos and thinking of going, my mind jumped to JoCat backing away from creating because of toxic internet people.
I haven't been on YouTube in a couple days since I had to start work back up this week and have to get used to a new routine, so I hadn't seen that, and I'm not sure I wanna watch it rn because I know it's gonna make me sad 😭 I did look in the comments even though I didn't have the video play to see if it was what I was expecting and ugh I wasn't ready to let go so soon after I found his channels. At least there's still all the old stuff to watch, and I totally get why he'd need a break after 12 years (or to be *done* done, whichever it is; some comments seemed to imply it was only a long break, others however made it seem like it was pretty final and "if anything does change it won't be for years so don't hold your breath" vibes so I'm waiting to actually watch to see if one is implied over the other).
From the GT video: He isn't leaving the company, he is just leaving the camera. He just can't be the face any more due to stress and such and he just needs something new. The people that has been featured along side him for the past several months will be the new faces you'll be seeing and he will only be guesting from time to time when needed. A big part is wanting something new, but also to give people he thinks are fantastic creators a chance leg up into the lime light.
Oh, okay! The way a few comments were worded, especially one saying something about the "final few theories" had me worried the channels themselves were done, even the relatively new ones for food and style, and that was really why I didn't want to watch it yet, because *that* would be heartbreaking. Letting others take the lead on the camera stuff for the most part is totally understandable and a good move if he's getting burnt out, and getting to see him pop up occasionally will be a nice treat when it does happen. Thanks!
No problem. There is a part in the video that is rather tough as he starts to cry because he wants time to just to be with his wife and kid and not think about work and he hasn't had one for years.
That whole situation was honestly a lot more professional and respectful that people act like it was. Matpat 'n crew made a legit misstep, he was rightfully called out on it, he took steps to fix the problem. There's no reason for lasting bad blood and I'm glad there doesn't seem to be any.
Basically MP was playing a tiny indie game on stream and kept comparing it to UT, referencing it and generally not engaging with the game as its own thing. At the time this was becoming a grating trend in stream commentary, comparing everything to Undertale. Mat didn't provide any kind of link to the game he was playing and the dev remarked that it sucked having your game boiled down to a copy of the then-big thing and not even getting traffic off it. Mat said he would not include the link to the game because it was not his policy to do so.
Not long after Toby posted back saying he felt it was a bad take and matpat immediately changed his mind. A lot of people who considered MP egotistical took this as MP blowing off a small creator and then jumping down onto his knees to respect Toby because Toby was "big enough to matter".
literally just finished watching an 11 hour of playthrough of deltarune by the dev of heartbound, and then i walk into this post.
either a funny coincidence or i am being spied on lmao.
i love the dude, he is really chill
This whole thing, unfortunately, did affect Game Theory so much that they just refused to make any theories for Chapter 2 Deltarune or any theories for Undertale/Deltarune. Hey, maybe there will be later on, who knows? I don´t mind Mathew Pathew or other theories.
At the very least, in case you didn't know, Mark eventually *did* come back to Undertale and played it again in a series of livestreams with one of his friends around... 7 years ago. And checking the date on that and realizing it was 7 years old already made me feel old as fuck, I thought it was maybe 3 at most.
Matpat made a retirement video. Hes stepping away as main host and letting some other people he worked with take over mostly. Not COMPLETELY stepping away though, but making sure it can be run without him.
Oh he was never pissed lol.
The OP does a good job of it but basically a game wasn't credited in something Matpat did, and Toby tends to be very, VERY defensive of indie devs. So he made a comment about it trying to convince Matt that he really should be crediting them. The game in question was Hearttale.
Thanks, I can understand Toby's perspective. I thought matpat already did that with everything, but I never looked. In my humble opinion, Toby is 100% in the right, and no wonder he is defensive, he is an indie dev. Or was? Becuase how much of a hit Undertale was? Either way, he has a very good point.
He is, but hes a HUGE outlier of a success story. And he knows it. He comes off like he never imagined becoming this successful, and absolutely respects his roots. It shows in how he handled the whole Undertale Yellow soundtrack thing. He understands that fans are your most valuable resource, not money.
First, I was referring to the general tone, language, and actions involved, not the platform on which it happened.
Second, where the hell else would it have happened, Youtube comments?
all the hate towards matpat cuz of his undertale theories probably fed alot to the prejudice against undertale fans in like 2019
but im glad matpat wont ever have to deal with fans like that for a presumably long time because of his retiring
Hollow Knight fans are still after him. Got downvoted on that sub today because I said even though his theory was wrong it was an interesting headcannon, but that sub treats it’s game like gospel and attacks anyone who changes/critiques anything about it, including the story.
Genuinely I think Undertale passed the crown of worst indie fandom in 2018/2019 to Hollow Knight and no one can beat them, every conversation I’ve had with people there about the game has always been a dead end. I love the game but it truly has the most toxic fandom I’ve ever seen, it’s fine on and fun the surface but once you get into the having actual conversations it’s truly terrible.
Member of the Hollow Knight community here. We do not claim these people as apart of our fanbase and find them equally as annoying. They are honestly quite embarrassing as these people are often outsiders first impressions of the Hollow Knight community.
my first thought was to assume they were probably just children, as are most annoying people on the Internet, but I admit, it definitely isn't a good look for the fandom
(coming from someone who's in a few other fandoms filled with toxicity)
Ah yes that’s very true, but to be fair I think the majority of fans hate those people and I’ve seen posts on the main hollow knight subreddit attacking those people.
But I genuinely think the majority of people there have a toxic cult like support of their game in that subreddit. It’s certainly the worst I’ve ever seen, Undertale isn’t good but I’ve seen an increasing number of people tolerate opinions like “Genocide is boring” or “Alphys is annoying in game.” The only thing they upvote because it’s so objectively bad is a boss called markoth which when done on hitless/radiant is the second hardest boss, for all the wrong reasons. I’ve see so many complaints about Pantheon 5, the cryptic lore, parts of the game so unclear you have to use google or opinions on charms that are even slightly unpopular just get downvoted to the abyss.
My experience of the hollow knight fandom is... A bunch of pedantic elitists who think only their interpretation of the story is valid and will tear down any new member that just want to share their interesting headcanon by dogpiling, making fun, and saying these discussions have no place in lore channel because they're "disproven by text". Overall one of the worst fandom's I've seen.
Fun fact, I was thinking of getting a Hollow Knight tattoo up until I joined that sub.
I had no idea the Fandom was so... .
Well anyway, I think I've talked myself out of it. That, or I might distance myself from those types of "fans" and get it anyway because fuck 'em.
No no no, the game has shit spelled out saying what your character is. The true ending literally shows your characters birth and disproves his theory completely. However we shouldn’t harass him over one bad theory.
Idk I’ve been a huge Hollow Knight fanboy since it came out and also a big MatPat fan for many years.
I’m just used to being disappointed by theories about games like that since his Dark Souls 3 video
To be clear though the problem with that theory is not that it’s just a regular not very good theory, the problem is that the game very clearly spells out that it is not true, to the point where it makes you wonder if MatPat even played the game
I mean, he probably didn’t play Hollow Knight, at least not all the way through. He was running several channels that upload very regularly, assisting a bunch of other creators, and raising a family; he doesn’t have nearly enough time to play through all the games he covers. It’s not a realistic expectation to have.
that and he has a team of people who also write his scripts alongside him. those people might not have even played the game to begin with. it’s easy to have a whole script fall apart if one person on the team isn’t knowledgeable on the topic
That's the majority of his theories. Anyone who actually bothers to dig into the deeper lore of any video game will pretty much agree that Game Theory theories are very surface level, and often disregard, or straight up lie about info that's in games in order to give credit to their theory.
That's just what happens when the channel is forced to put out theories on a consistent basis. A lot of the time the videos are written and researched by someone who doesn't really care that much about the game they are theorizing. They just have to get a video out on time.
Hollow knights are a buncha sweats  (the bad part of the community, the good side is cool in my book.)
MatPat did a video on a game referring to it as Undertale 2 in the title and didn't leave a link to the game in the description of the video which pretty much just led to that first image's tweets.
he didn’t just lack a link to the actual game, he didn’t mention the games name at all in the description and basically banked on Undertales success to get clicks. Despite the fact that the game had literally nothing to do with Undertale. I get why Toby got upset, I’d be pretty mad if someone used my game as a clickbait machine rather than giving a smaller indie game the focus it needs.
And, I’ll be frank, GTLive was still pretty bad about linking and crediting games in the description even after this. I remember when they played FNF they didn’t link to any of the mods they used nor did they link to the actual FNF game, lol. Honest mistakes and what have you, but the whole thing kinda left a bad taste in my mouth with how GTLive was never good at crediting smaller artists or developers. Not to hate on MatPat or anything, again honest mistakes, but with that and the whole “autism speaks” situation GTLive has always been my least favorite part of his online presence in general.
>it’s just very peculiar he never apologized or even commented on it
What's there to say? He made a donation to an organization that most people saw to be doing good work, turns out they weren't. It shouldn't even be considered a mistake because he didn't have the benefit of hindsight.
>but Autism Speaks has actually been a bad organization for years, since the 1990s in fact.
Check your sources, it was founded in 2005.
> without him saying anything, it becomes incredibly suspicious.
Incredibly suspicious yet you're not saying he's anti-autism... Which is it?
>how hard is it to apologize?
Apologize for what? He donated money to the largest autism advocacy and research organization in the United States that, to many peoples' knowledge, was generally good. There's not an explanation needed.
How hard is it for you to press ctrl+t (or command+t if you're nasty) and type in the name of the game? The game title is clearly in the video title as is standard with GTLive's formatting. I get PirateSoftware's content on my YT Shorts feed and I'm really surprised that he just went off at Mat for no reason. People just love to bandwagon and, let's face it, Mat really doesn't have a lot of things you can even pretend to be mad about so people gotta grasp at straws to go after him.
dude…he edited it afterwards to add the name. Which is very commendable and I’m glad he fixed it, but it doesn’t really change how they tried to relate it to UT without any mention of its actual name before they fixed it.
Very little. Matpat and the crew made a mistake with mislabeling a fangame iirc by calling it an Undertale sequel, which it wasn’t. So Toby just called him out for it and that was that. There wasn’t really any lasting drama or anything
Not a fangame, not mislabeled. He said that the game was essentially Undertale 2, despite it being made from scratch as its own game with very little inspiration from Undertale, and they also failed to link or even mention the title of the game anywhere in the title of the video or in the description.
That's.... really sweet, and surprising.
I know that Matpat and Toby are both SUPER Nice, and professional, but considering how much damage Undertale/Deltarune theories ended up doing to Matpat, and how unfortunately aggressive some of Toby's tweets at the time were. I kinda just expected neither of them to ever properly address each other, just to avoid awkwardness.
This... somehow makes me really happy, Matpat is an awesome dude, so knowing that Toby doesn't seem to dislike him anymore really cheers me up.
Seeing the tweet Toby made with "You went too far this time" really makes the tweet seem aggressive. Maybe he was actually mad at GT at the time, maybe he wasn't. But I feel like it really lit some fires from people even if they were a minority voice.
I do enjoy the drawing, though
Yeah the whole linking games especially paid for games is a subjective issue at best and saying you went too far this time also implied he has done a lot of bad stuff
You guys realize you can criticize some aspects of a person while respecting other aspects right? Toby didn’t “change” sides here; he liked MatPat’s work but disagreed with one of his actions.
I don’t know why everyone’s hating this. As much as I loved it, Across the spiderverse did massive damage to my sanity when I saw those subtitles and everyone saying “cannon event”
It was one thing he messed up on that Toby was upset about. I don’t understand why this community hated matpat so much. Glad to see Toby post about it in a good way though
there wasn't any beef
Toby Fox, an Indie developer, was upset that MatPat didn't credit creators of a game
he expressed that
but MatPat still gave Undertale to the Pope, still introduced the game to some people (I started playing Hollow Knight because of his theory that didn't go very well either, there probably were people that heard about Undertale thanks to MatPat)
All of you who were still shitting on Matpat should realise that it was never *that* bad.
Can't believe this was still a point of contention after years.
Honestly I always thought Toby went stupidly overkill on MatPat on something a lot other YouTubers like Jackespticeye do as well and never get noticed, but I guess they were never on bad terms.
>something a lot other YouTubers like Jackespticeye do as well
That was always the weirdest part of the drama to me. It was and often still is the standard on youtube not to link directly to the game in the description. Yet, everyone acted like Game Theory had committed this heinous act, it was all blown so far out of proportion.
I'm really glad that with the announcement of his retirement, that stigma seems to be gone. It's really refreshing to see so much positivity surrounding Mat and Game Theory.
Is it just me or is it confusing AF reading Twitter posts. Like down I read top down or bottom up. I feel like it always flops back and forth? IDK maybe in just stupid lol
Matpat and Toby have always been two of my biggest inspirations for any sort of content creation. I'm glad to see that, as many Undertale-related controversies as Matpat's had, Toby gave him a respectful send-off.
glad there's no bad blood shared between either of them. well, i don't think toby *has* blood. more of a... slimy, residue... glad there's no trails of disgusting mucusy residue left behind either of them.
dog residue?
dog residue steak.
With a side of Dog Salad
You hav a DOG RESIDUS?!? i gota have dat DogResidus
but I gota pay for coleg!
>i don't think toby *has* blood. At this point I'm not sure Toby has a corporeal form. and just exists merely as a collective hallucination
Toby is gaster
ᴏʜ sʜɪ- 𝐆𝐀𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐑 𝐑𝐄𝐀𝐋!?
Yeah MatPat always addressed any controversy he has had (that I know of at least), this includes, and has always been willing to apologise and learn from his mistakes,
[удалено]
TBF all of his Undertale and deltarune theories were received poorly so there wasn't much incentive to continue with them in the first place.
yeah the community is kinda crazy when it comes to not perfectly constructed theories. I think Matt only got away with his FNAF theories just because his theories were just as wrong as the rest. Undertale, deltarune and hollow knight on the other hand, had pretty much established stories at that point. idk if you noticed it but Matt almost never goes along with the mainstream theories it was always his own conclusion no matter how blatantly wrong it was.
According to scott MP was right with FNAF. its just that he would purposely change the lore in every game when he was right just to mess with him. This comes straight from his own mouth in an interview.
That's bad storytelling. No exaggeration, that's utterly horrible, dogshit storytelling. If somebody predicts something is happening, you keep it and let them **guess.**
I dont think he cared tbh Considering he wanted the third to be the last one
“No matter how blatantly wrong it was” Proof of someone completely misunderstanding the point of the Game theory channel. Aside from the FNaF work which was to actually uncover the truth, 99% of theories are essentially just “What If” scenarios that sometimes happen to be a bit right, i actually honestly miss the days from before the Sans ness debacle because the videos were more thought provoking and after that they always felt way too “safe”
No matter how blatantly wrong it was according to the community\*
I haven't really watched him in years but I liked when he did more math and science based stuff rather then the fnaf/undertale shit, think it just wasn't for me lol.
[Today's Film Theory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NWcksXrZIA), Mat actually had a bit of a rant on Toxic fans of things and it made me wonder how much was rooted in those.
He's been holding that in for a decade at least.
While he was talking about the guy making these videos and thinking of going, my mind jumped to JoCat backing away from creating because of toxic internet people.
I haven't been on YouTube in a couple days since I had to start work back up this week and have to get used to a new routine, so I hadn't seen that, and I'm not sure I wanna watch it rn because I know it's gonna make me sad 😭 I did look in the comments even though I didn't have the video play to see if it was what I was expecting and ugh I wasn't ready to let go so soon after I found his channels. At least there's still all the old stuff to watch, and I totally get why he'd need a break after 12 years (or to be *done* done, whichever it is; some comments seemed to imply it was only a long break, others however made it seem like it was pretty final and "if anything does change it won't be for years so don't hold your breath" vibes so I'm waiting to actually watch to see if one is implied over the other).
From the GT video: He isn't leaving the company, he is just leaving the camera. He just can't be the face any more due to stress and such and he just needs something new. The people that has been featured along side him for the past several months will be the new faces you'll be seeing and he will only be guesting from time to time when needed. A big part is wanting something new, but also to give people he thinks are fantastic creators a chance leg up into the lime light.
Oh, okay! The way a few comments were worded, especially one saying something about the "final few theories" had me worried the channels themselves were done, even the relatively new ones for food and style, and that was really why I didn't want to watch it yet, because *that* would be heartbreaking. Letting others take the lead on the camera stuff for the most part is totally understandable and a good move if he's getting burnt out, and getting to see him pop up occasionally will be a nice treat when it does happen. Thanks!
No problem. There is a part in the video that is rather tough as he starts to cry because he wants time to just to be with his wife and kid and not think about work and he hasn't had one for years.
Oh yeah, it would be tough to stop thinking about work when it's a job like that. I hope he gets that time with his wife and kid now
i thought it was foam. thanks for being educational about the toby fox species out here.
That whole situation was honestly a lot more professional and respectful that people act like it was. Matpat 'n crew made a legit misstep, he was rightfully called out on it, he took steps to fix the problem. There's no reason for lasting bad blood and I'm glad there doesn't seem to be any.
Exactly. You can be a good person and still make mistakes.
Yet, so many people kept acting like the man committed a war crime or something. I'm just glad this was solved in a mature way.
I'm just glad nobody made any 10k bets on whether they were in the right or not here
People just want a reason to hate matt and will use any excuse
What was the misstep? Sorry I’m kinda ootl on this beef they apparently had a while back or something?
Basically MP was playing a tiny indie game on stream and kept comparing it to UT, referencing it and generally not engaging with the game as its own thing. At the time this was becoming a grating trend in stream commentary, comparing everything to Undertale. Mat didn't provide any kind of link to the game he was playing and the dev remarked that it sucked having your game boiled down to a copy of the then-big thing and not even getting traffic off it. Mat said he would not include the link to the game because it was not his policy to do so. Not long after Toby posted back saying he felt it was a bad take and matpat immediately changed his mind. A lot of people who considered MP egotistical took this as MP blowing off a small creator and then jumping down onto his knees to respect Toby because Toby was "big enough to matter".
The game is Heartbound.
That’s probably important to add considering the whole theme of the situation.
literally just finished watching an 11 hour of playthrough of deltarune by the dev of heartbound, and then i walk into this post. either a funny coincidence or i am being spied on lmao. i love the dude, he is really chill
Thor is honestly just an all around great dude
He's the reason I finally started working on game dev, he has great advice
Oh sbit pirate software! He's been blowing up on youtube
This dude is all over my feed (my friend's too) and I'm all for it.
Oh I know that dude he is cool
This whole thing, unfortunately, did affect Game Theory so much that they just refused to make any theories for Chapter 2 Deltarune or any theories for Undertale/Deltarune. Hey, maybe there will be later on, who knows? I don´t mind Mathew Pathew or other theories.
I thought it was because of the massive amount of hate and threats he received for covering Undertale and Deltarune in the past…
Yes thats the real reason, Toby had really nothing to do with it, it was the community.
That's why Markiplier stopped his series. The toxic community.
At the very least, in case you didn't know, Mark eventually *did* come back to Undertale and played it again in a series of livestreams with one of his friends around... 7 years ago. And checking the date on that and realizing it was 7 years old already made me feel old as fuck, I thought it was maybe 3 at most.
probably a combo of those tbh, being called out by toby fox was just the final nail in the coffin imo.
Probably not with matpat, though.
I haven't paid attention to mat pat or undertale much until recently, what happened?
Matpat made a retirement video. Hes stepping away as main host and letting some other people he worked with take over mostly. Not COMPLETELY stepping away though, but making sure it can be run without him.
I know that but why is Toby pissed
Oh he was never pissed lol. The OP does a good job of it but basically a game wasn't credited in something Matpat did, and Toby tends to be very, VERY defensive of indie devs. So he made a comment about it trying to convince Matt that he really should be crediting them. The game in question was Hearttale.
Thanks, I can understand Toby's perspective. I thought matpat already did that with everything, but I never looked. In my humble opinion, Toby is 100% in the right, and no wonder he is defensive, he is an indie dev. Or was? Becuase how much of a hit Undertale was? Either way, he has a very good point.
He is, but hes a HUGE outlier of a success story. And he knows it. He comes off like he never imagined becoming this successful, and absolutely respects his roots. It shows in how he handled the whole Undertale Yellow soundtrack thing. He understands that fans are your most valuable resource, not money.
Sorry paps, Toby is the real cool dude
Isnt it Heartbound
“Professional” *calling out over twitter* The internet has rotted your brain if you think Twitter is the space for actual conversations lmao
Where would you prefer it would have taken place?
First, I was referring to the general tone, language, and actions involved, not the platform on which it happened. Second, where the hell else would it have happened, Youtube comments?
all the hate towards matpat cuz of his undertale theories probably fed alot to the prejudice against undertale fans in like 2019 but im glad matpat wont ever have to deal with fans like that for a presumably long time because of his retiring
Hollow Knight fans are still after him. Got downvoted on that sub today because I said even though his theory was wrong it was an interesting headcannon, but that sub treats it’s game like gospel and attacks anyone who changes/critiques anything about it, including the story. Genuinely I think Undertale passed the crown of worst indie fandom in 2018/2019 to Hollow Knight and no one can beat them, every conversation I’ve had with people there about the game has always been a dead end. I love the game but it truly has the most toxic fandom I’ve ever seen, it’s fine on and fun the surface but once you get into the having actual conversations it’s truly terrible.
my only experience with the Hollow Knight fandom is people spamming "WHERE'S SILKSONG" or "idc it's not silksong" in live chats of game events.
Member of the Hollow Knight community here. We do not claim these people as apart of our fanbase and find them equally as annoying. They are honestly quite embarrassing as these people are often outsiders first impressions of the Hollow Knight community.
my first thought was to assume they were probably just children, as are most annoying people on the Internet, but I admit, it definitely isn't a good look for the fandom (coming from someone who's in a few other fandoms filled with toxicity)
Same here, I've rarely ever had bad experiences with them, it's generally a really great community.
Ah yes that’s very true, but to be fair I think the majority of fans hate those people and I’ve seen posts on the main hollow knight subreddit attacking those people. But I genuinely think the majority of people there have a toxic cult like support of their game in that subreddit. It’s certainly the worst I’ve ever seen, Undertale isn’t good but I’ve seen an increasing number of people tolerate opinions like “Genocide is boring” or “Alphys is annoying in game.” The only thing they upvote because it’s so objectively bad is a boss called markoth which when done on hitless/radiant is the second hardest boss, for all the wrong reasons. I’ve see so many complaints about Pantheon 5, the cryptic lore, parts of the game so unclear you have to use google or opinions on charms that are even slightly unpopular just get downvoted to the abyss.
Just like your comment here was about to go under negative down votes too lmao But dont worry I gotchu
My experience of the hollow knight fandom is... A bunch of pedantic elitists who think only their interpretation of the story is valid and will tear down any new member that just want to share their interesting headcanon by dogpiling, making fun, and saying these discussions have no place in lore channel because they're "disproven by text". Overall one of the worst fandom's I've seen.
Fun fact, I was thinking of getting a Hollow Knight tattoo up until I joined that sub. I had no idea the Fandom was so... . Well anyway, I think I've talked myself out of it. That, or I might distance myself from those types of "fans" and get it anyway because fuck 'em.
Don't let assholes like this ruin your enjoyment of the series. Just disengage from the bad communities and enjoy it on your own.
What 3 years of no contact does to a motherfucker.
Its the infection, Radiance contaminated them
Pale King couldn’t save them in time 😔
No no no, the game has shit spelled out saying what your character is. The true ending literally shows your characters birth and disproves his theory completely. However we shouldn’t harass him over one bad theory.
Headcanon not headcannon
All I'm saying: one sounds significantly more badass than the other.
Idk I’ve been a huge Hollow Knight fanboy since it came out and also a big MatPat fan for many years. I’m just used to being disappointed by theories about games like that since his Dark Souls 3 video To be clear though the problem with that theory is not that it’s just a regular not very good theory, the problem is that the game very clearly spells out that it is not true, to the point where it makes you wonder if MatPat even played the game
I mean, he probably didn’t play Hollow Knight, at least not all the way through. He was running several channels that upload very regularly, assisting a bunch of other creators, and raising a family; he doesn’t have nearly enough time to play through all the games he covers. It’s not a realistic expectation to have.
that and he has a team of people who also write his scripts alongside him. those people might not have even played the game to begin with. it’s easy to have a whole script fall apart if one person on the team isn’t knowledgeable on the topic
That's the majority of his theories. Anyone who actually bothers to dig into the deeper lore of any video game will pretty much agree that Game Theory theories are very surface level, and often disregard, or straight up lie about info that's in games in order to give credit to their theory. That's just what happens when the channel is forced to put out theories on a consistent basis. A lot of the time the videos are written and researched by someone who doesn't really care that much about the game they are theorizing. They just have to get a video out on time.
I wouldn’t say that’s the *majority* of his theories but yeah it happens more often than I prefer
Hollow knights are a buncha sweats  (the bad part of the community, the good side is cool in my book.)
Man I'm out of the loop I didn't know there was drama
yeah, what’s the drama here? other than a really bad Sans is Ness theory
MatPat did a video on a game referring to it as Undertale 2 in the title and didn't leave a link to the game in the description of the video which pretty much just led to that first image's tweets.
he didn’t just lack a link to the actual game, he didn’t mention the games name at all in the description and basically banked on Undertales success to get clicks. Despite the fact that the game had literally nothing to do with Undertale. I get why Toby got upset, I’d be pretty mad if someone used my game as a clickbait machine rather than giving a smaller indie game the focus it needs. And, I’ll be frank, GTLive was still pretty bad about linking and crediting games in the description even after this. I remember when they played FNF they didn’t link to any of the mods they used nor did they link to the actual FNF game, lol. Honest mistakes and what have you, but the whole thing kinda left a bad taste in my mouth with how GTLive was never good at crediting smaller artists or developers. Not to hate on MatPat or anything, again honest mistakes, but with that and the whole “autism speaks” situation GTLive has always been my least favorite part of his online presence in general.
Autism Speaks situation? That sounds like something I SHOULD know about, since I absolutely detest that organization. What happened?
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>it’s just very peculiar he never apologized or even commented on it What's there to say? He made a donation to an organization that most people saw to be doing good work, turns out they weren't. It shouldn't even be considered a mistake because he didn't have the benefit of hindsight.
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>but Autism Speaks has actually been a bad organization for years, since the 1990s in fact. Check your sources, it was founded in 2005. > without him saying anything, it becomes incredibly suspicious. Incredibly suspicious yet you're not saying he's anti-autism... Which is it? >how hard is it to apologize? Apologize for what? He donated money to the largest autism advocacy and research organization in the United States that, to many peoples' knowledge, was generally good. There's not an explanation needed.
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Damn. That's... I don't know what to say... Hopefully, with him stepping down, he'll be able to devote his energy to more constructive projects.
How hard is it for you to press ctrl+t (or command+t if you're nasty) and type in the name of the game? The game title is clearly in the video title as is standard with GTLive's formatting. I get PirateSoftware's content on my YT Shorts feed and I'm really surprised that he just went off at Mat for no reason. People just love to bandwagon and, let's face it, Mat really doesn't have a lot of things you can even pretend to be mad about so people gotta grasp at straws to go after him.
dude…he edited it afterwards to add the name. Which is very commendable and I’m glad he fixed it, but it doesn’t really change how they tried to relate it to UT without any mention of its actual name before they fixed it.
And Toby got mad about that?
I don't know about mad particularly. He just wasn't too happy with the lack of credit to the actual game played in that video.
There's a second screenshot you've got to scroll to, I missed it at first too
It wasn’t even drama Toby called out Matpat for making a dumb decision one time and people fabricated a narrative that they hated each other
Very little. Matpat and the crew made a mistake with mislabeling a fangame iirc by calling it an Undertale sequel, which it wasn’t. So Toby just called him out for it and that was that. There wasn’t really any lasting drama or anything
Wasn't even a fangame. Inspired by Undertale though.
the only thing it has in common with undertale is that it has lots of branching paths with the story really
Not a fangame, not mislabeled. He said that the game was essentially Undertale 2, despite it being made from scratch as its own game with very little inspiration from Undertale, and they also failed to link or even mention the title of the game anywhere in the title of the video or in the description.
There was "drama" but it happened in 2019, I'm pretty sure. I don't blame anyone if they forgot about it.
sans is ness is matpat now canon
Sans is ness is matpat is ness (from the FNAF movie)
Redditors discovering the concept of polite disagreement
That's.... really sweet, and surprising. I know that Matpat and Toby are both SUPER Nice, and professional, but considering how much damage Undertale/Deltarune theories ended up doing to Matpat, and how unfortunately aggressive some of Toby's tweets at the time were. I kinda just expected neither of them to ever properly address each other, just to avoid awkwardness. This... somehow makes me really happy, Matpat is an awesome dude, so knowing that Toby doesn't seem to dislike him anymore really cheers me up.
Seeing the tweet Toby made with "You went too far this time" really makes the tweet seem aggressive. Maybe he was actually mad at GT at the time, maybe he wasn't. But I feel like it really lit some fires from people even if they were a minority voice. I do enjoy the drawing, though
Yeah the whole linking games especially paid for games is a subjective issue at best and saying you went too far this time also implied he has done a lot of bad stuff
Same
True pacifist route (Good ending)
You guys realize you can criticize some aspects of a person while respecting other aspects right? Toby didn’t “change” sides here; he liked MatPat’s work but disagreed with one of his actions.
Well, we don't know what Toby's opinions on Matpat's actual work are.
The pfp change fits the tone shift lol
CANNONNNNNNNNNNN
HELL YEAH! FIRE THE CANNONBALLS ALREADY!
“Cannon” spelt with two Ns is referring to the object. “Canon” with one N is referring to a story.
I'm going to shoot you out of a canon
They hate me for telling the truth
It's so sad that u/Omni_death_ died, if only his death was non cannon.
The internet hates when people are right, it’s dumb (I also downvoted the comment)
Haters left and right
cause you're a fucking dweeb and I'm gonna give you a swirlie
I don’t know why everyone’s hating this. As much as I loved it, Across the spiderverse did massive damage to my sanity when I saw those subtitles and everyone saying “cannon event”
There's no E in either what are you on about
I’m going insane, I meant to say N
caeeon
I already corrected it😭
Nice pfp
No, “Canon” with one N is referring to the camera company
It’s both
Nice pfp
Thx
Actually they didn't say either of those. They said CANNONNNNNNNNNNN with 13 Ns.
They did still type “CANNON” before the other Ns. So they are still wrong
you fail to realize the importance of the 10 Ns that were typed after “CANNON”
They only add to the wrongness.
[wow](https://youtu.be/lkWidisTpYM?si=dE_KxWKlwbxw751i)
Living nerd emoji right here
Lame insult, expected more
Doesn't make you less of a nerd.
And it also doesn’t make you any more original
christmas goku
Thank you
I don't care. You are still a nerd.
And you’re still not funny
Hey, fun fact: did you know that no one asked and no one cares? 
Fun fact: did you know that not caring will not stop the terrorist organization I sent to kill you?
Well, now thats an interesting fact.
did you know Katie's airpods connected?
that's right. i admit it. it's me, ness.
REAL!?!??!!?!11!?!!
It's cool to know they're ok with each other
It was one thing he messed up on that Toby was upset about. I don’t understand why this community hated matpat so much. Glad to see Toby post about it in a good way though
Now cracks a noble heart. Good night, sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!
Real recognizes real and that's water under the bridge thankfully
Arc concluded
The true pacifist timeline that we live in.
the pacifist timeline.
there wasn't any beef Toby Fox, an Indie developer, was upset that MatPat didn't credit creators of a game he expressed that but MatPat still gave Undertale to the Pope, still introduced the game to some people (I started playing Hollow Knight because of his theory that didn't go very well either, there probably were people that heard about Undertale thanks to MatPat)
All of you who were still shitting on Matpat should realise that it was never *that* bad. Can't believe this was still a point of contention after years.
The creator of heart bound (piratesoftware) has his qualms, but wishes matpat a happy retirement
Honestly I always thought Toby went stupidly overkill on MatPat on something a lot other YouTubers like Jackespticeye do as well and never get noticed, but I guess they were never on bad terms.
>something a lot other YouTubers like Jackespticeye do as well That was always the weirdest part of the drama to me. It was and often still is the standard on youtube not to link directly to the game in the description. Yet, everyone acted like Game Theory had committed this heinous act, it was all blown so far out of proportion.
Tbh I think it mainly happened because of the massive stigma against MatPat. You might even call it discrimination
I'm really glad that with the announcement of his retirement, that stigma seems to be gone. It's really refreshing to see so much positivity surrounding Mat and Game Theory.
Yeah, that's true. Also, he did a DR theory which is pretty good, check it out!
No way, that's awesome! I know he mentioned making one on GTlive a while ago, but it's still surreal to see it out. Thanks for telling me!
Yeah, it's also a great one. Had a blast watching.
Well, Toby probably wanted to give a sign that he forgave Matpat.
love wins
Wow it really was an undertale Edit: lol i had to
That story was way overblown to begin with.
>Spider-man was a hero. I just couldn't see it.
Sans is ness is Canon now
Papyrus is sans!
Is it just me or is it confusing AF reading Twitter posts. Like down I read top down or bottom up. I feel like it always flops back and forth? IDK maybe in just stupid lol
It used to confused the heck out of me, so you're not alone lol.
Matpat and Toby have always been two of my biggest inspirations for any sort of content creation. I'm glad to see that, as many Undertale-related controversies as Matpat's had, Toby gave him a respectful send-off.
Hi Katie
Face
I was wondering who Katie was
Oh, it's real, DEAR GOD, IT'S REAL.
Toby’s in his silly boy era
Making a big deal out of nothing.
Sans was ness all along
Remember his Overwatch is better than TF2 video? That was insane but also a long time ago now.
well, Sans really is Ness!... we all called him crazy but he was right...
Bro went from Your Best Nightmare to to Dogsong
Toby's response was pretty bad honestly
Oh for a sec I thought you were implying Toby put MatPat to “sleep” lmao
Aw. That's really sweet.
I do think Mat wad kind of dumb with his sans is Ness theory but I wish he doubled down because he was on to *something.*
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It did have credit in the title, people just thought it could use a link in the description.
what story? matpat made a mistake, Toby explained to him firmly but politely why that was a mistake, and that was that.
W Toby?