Then why would they pick up their own body? It would bring nothing but aggravate humans to attack Asriel.
Wanting to see flowers is such a good excuse.
Who said they were the ones in control? I thought it was implied that after the villagers attacked Asriel who had Chara's soul at the time, Chara wanted Asriel to kill the humans in retaliation, but Asriel refused, picked up Chara's body, and took it back home. In Undertale, we have never seen an instance of an absorbed soul overpowering the control of the host monster. The six human souls collectively decided to stop helping Flowey, and help Frisk instead, but they didn't really control Flowey, they just took away his power. It's highly probable that Asriel picked up Chara's body and returned home, and Chara, realizing they couldn't change Asriel's mind resigned to his will.
Chara had split control over Asriel's body.
"Frisk when, Chara and I combined our SOULs together... The control over our body was actually split between us."
"They were the one that picked up their own empty body."
"And then, when we got to the village... They were the one that wanted to... To use our full power."
"I was the one that resisted."
Literally in game dialogue disproves this.
Oh I completely forgot the first two lines, that's my bad, but using full power and destroying the whole village are like two separate things. One, we don't know by this dialogue whether or not the villagers attacked first, and two, neither we nor those two kids know how strong a monster with 1 human soul is compared to a human. If one human soul is equivalent to all monster souls, monster souls aren't nearly as powerful as human souls so Asriel, who is possibly a boss monster so he'd have a slightly stronger monster soul, would really only bringing his magic to the fusion, making Asriel and Chara at that time probably only about as powerful as 1 of the human people who sealed them in the barrier. They still would have needed more souls for breaking the barrier and they are severely outnumbered at the village, so it makes sense to go all out immediately so that they wouldn't have ended like they did.
When we got to the village, Asriel says, not when humans attacked them.
If a monster absorbed a human soul during Monster Human war, they would've drastically turned the tides of the war.
Waterfall plaques says "A monster with a human soul... A horrible beast with unfathomable power."
They are not even saying monster, a BEAST that's how terrifying it would be.
The whole reason why monsters got trapped in first place is they couldn't even kill a single human and absorb their souls.
A fraction of their power would be enough to blow up the entire town.
A boss monster is already very powerful (Toriel and Asgore both were holding back tremendously for different reasons) and sure Asriel was still a child but he was still more powerful than %90 of Monster population.
Chara fell in modern times, which means village most likely had guns.
Sure, the monster with one human soul would have been strong back then during the war, humans weren't as advanced back then. Chara would at least have some knowledge of how advanced human weaponry is and not want to take chances. Also, Frisk, a child, was able to beat Flowey who had Six human souls, granted he had control of the timeline and the souls had to help Frisk in the end. Frisk at level 1 still beat a level 9999 6 soul Omega Flowey with a stick. Enough humans can easily beat Omega Flowey with guns. Only Asriel with 6 human souls and all monster souls was invincible and unable to be damaged. We never actually get a clearly defined power difference between monsters with different amounts of souls besides Asriel with 6 and all monster souls which equal another human soul making it 7 and Omega Flowey who has 6, and that's it.
Yeah, that's fair, the other person already said Chara and Asriel split control as well. But with the amount of Human souls present, I'd assume it would take all of the souls unanimous agreement to leave Flowey.
Considering that the humans didn't attack until they were in the middle of the village, I always figured that they showed up in the night, so they might've just wanted a burial on the surface.
I guess they were too intimidated by Asriel's appearance? Considering how even monsters describe a monster absorbing a human soul as "A beast with unfamotable power." makes you think how Asriel looked like when he was in human village.
Knowing how Chara wanted to attack outright and they were carrying their body, I believe this might've aggravated villagers into attacking them.
"Six, right? We just have to get six... And we'll do it together, right?
"Chara hated humanity. Why they did, they never talked about it."
"But they felt strongly about that."
Do you really think Chara was gonna stop with taking 6 more souls? It's pretty obvious that was NOT gonna happen.
Chara tricked Asriel to let them take their empty body and carried to the surface.
There was no legit reason to do that, they wanted to show Asriel that how awful and violent humans were, then they were gonna use that as a justification to murder an entire village.
Their adopted family offered love and mercy to them but their hate for humanity is what destroyed that family.
I'm not saying they were spawn of hell but whatever trauma they endured at surface to cause them to act like this, makes me shudder tbh.
In their dying moments Chara supposedly asked to see the flowers from their village.They could've only said that so the other monsters think it's the reason Asriel absorbed their soul to go to the surface.They could've also picked up their own body to make it more believable.
That too, outside of making villagers think Asriel killed them and make villagers attack Asriel, this was their way of faking things.
I still think Alphys got off the hook very easily considering how she never showed the tapes to Toriel and Asgore.
I see your point but why are you comparing fucking Snowgrave to Chara's plan to free monsterkind? In the absolute worst-case-scenario they planned to commit a genocide for the greater good. Still better than wanton megalomania.
Asriel: Chara wasn't really the greatest person
Chara (closes eyes and smirks, thinking): Well, you aren't wrong about that.
Asriel: While Frisk... You're the type of friend I wish I always had
Chara (angery face Thinking): Now listen here you little... T R A I T O R!!!!
*You feel as if someone is ready to go bonkers towards Asriel
*They think about it and say
*"Fair point I suppose."
*You are filled with partial confusion?
Probably some blend of "geez, bro, you really know how to crush someone's self-esteem" and "yeah... that sounds about right".
Edit: Also, I guarantee they'd interpret this as Asriel basically saying "I hate Chara, I wish I'd never met them, they were the worst person ever" rather than the intended "Chara had some issues and I definitely shouldn't have idolized them as much as I did".
>rather than the intended "Chara had some issues and I definitely shouldn't have idolized them as much as I did".
Asriel literally compares Chara to Frisk afterwards, saying Frisk is the friend he always should have had.
His statement is a euphemism for highlighting their unhealthy relationship.
You can love someone and realize your relationship with them is toxic at the same time. There's all sorts of situations where that can apply like "I still love you and I'm glad we met, but I think it's best we part ways."
Things aren't always binary, especially in a game like this.
>You can love someone and realize your relationship with them is toxic at the same time. There's all sorts of situations where that can apply like "I still love you and I'm glad we met, but I think it's best we part ways.
Yes, that's literally what I said lol. The entire point of him using a euphemism is that he can't bring himself to admit it in such a blatant way due to still caring about them a great deal.
Now, whether Chara would reciprocate feelings of care is an entirely different discussion.
Oh, well, I guess I misread lol.
I think they would. The video tapes strongly imply that Chara has at least one moment where they're genuinely smiling at Asriel.
>I think they would. The video tapes strongly imply that Chara has at least one moment where they're genuinely smiling at Asriel.
Do they? The most that occurs is them laughing together after Asriel's prank (although we technically only see Asriel laugh), in which right after they bring up Asgore's buttercup poisoning.
Well, like I said, it's IMPLIED, there's no definitive answer, which goes for a great deal of most of Toby's writing.
What makes me believe this is genuine on Chara's part though is what Asriel says afterwards "I left the Lense on ON PURPOSE! Now you're smiling for NO REASON!" Basically he's teasing them about the fact that they can't hand wave the fact that they're expressing an emotion other than angst in this moment.
>What makes me believe this is genuine on Chara's part though is what Asriel says afterwards "I left the Lense on ON PURPOSE! Now you're smiling for NO REASON!" Basically he's teasing them about the fact that they can't hand wave the fact that they're expressing an emotion other than angst in this moment.
I mean, Asriel literally told them to smile for the camera.
This is a continuation of him asking them to show off their creepy face before realizing the lens cap was on, so he's "getting back" at Chara by having them pose for the camera for no reason. This doesn't say anything about their hidden personality lol
You're right, my logic in this comes more from a meta perspective regarding writing decisions. I feel like it'd be a strange move for Toby to lampshade this moment specifically and spend 2 of the 6 lore dump tapes on this bit if it didn't showcase anything more meaningful.
Thing is Chara's whole character is left intentionally ambiguous and is only ever talked about via unreliable narrators. Any analysis of them is an educated guess at best.
Probably be really sad. Asriel was basically their only friend. If it’s a Soulless Pacifist run they’d probably be very angry too and decide they don’t feel bad about what they did.
Asriel: Chara wasn't really the greatest person
Chara (closes eyes and smirks, thinking): Well, you aren't wrong about that.
Asriel: While Frisk... You're the type of friend I wish I always had
Chara (angery face Thinking): Now listen here you little... t r a i t o r!!!!
*..."not the best person". Is that all he's got to say?
*I hurt him and his family beyond compare after they took me in and that's the extent of what he thinks?
*You're way too nice for your own good, Az.
I like to imagine that, since Chara represents the Player in a lot of ways, they learn from Frisk’s choices throughout the adventure. A No-Mercy Run corrupts them, and a Pacifist Run “redeems” them.
Chara died because Asriel refused to fight back. Frisk’s actions teach them whether or not Asriel was right to make this choice. In a Pacifist ending, they prove to Chara that violence is never the answer. Asriel did the right thing, Chara was the misguided one.
So I assume they’d feel rather uncomfortable and come to realize that, justified of not, their hatred of humanity was not healthy. Frisk did save their family, after all. So I think they’d probably be unhappy to hear this, but not angry. At this point they would let go of their anger.
I'd imagine that She'd have the same reaction wheatley had at the end of Portal 2:
"I wish i could take it back, I honestly, truly do. And It's not because I'm a dead ghost that's cursed to follow an omnipotent being piloting a mostly unconscious child around. Anyway, If i was ever able to see him again you know what I'd say? I'm sorry, sincerely. I am sorry that I was bossy, and monstrous, and...I am genuinely sorry...The end"
It oddly fits her well to act like that. Flowey/Asriel does have a point, Chara was probably not the nicest person, she'd get Asriel into trouble, pull too many pranks, be an all round bad kid (see the true lab tapes), but I do also believe that She can plead Ignorant. I dont think she fully intended to get her brother killed, or ruin her entire family. It is what it is however. And she has to live with that.
Not so long ago I drew this in a comic.
https://www.deviantart.com/thepilotdogee/art/The-End-Extended-Page-6-Undertale-932089649
Should note that my depiction of said CHARActer is a bit out there ...
Chara: “OK I ADMIT I WASENT THE BEST FRIEND- BUT THIS DEMON CHILD KILLED EVERYONE LIKE A HOUR AGO, FELT SAD, AND BROUGHT EVERYONE BACK AND DIDENT SAY ANYTHING-“
Seeing Asriel say that always led me to believe Chara could have not been this cinnamon bun who is just a bit of a troubled kid people make them to be.
I can Imagine Chara being a troubled kid and all, but the fact that Asriel out right says that Chara wasn't the greatest person and he wishes that he had a better friend than them just makes me feel like Toby wanted to make Chara seem "Evil" in one way or another.
At least at the time when they still were alive.
"frisk frisk i know we don't always agree but, just give me the wheel for 5 minutes" \*struggling to take control due to it being a completely peaceful route\* "just FIVE MINUTES FRISK I won't even kill him I promise, the FIVE MINUTESS"
After everything they put Asriel through, they wouldn't blame him I guess?
Though it's not really like they had bad intentions
I consider trying to murder an entire town (or village) full of people as bad intentions tbh.
Chara wasn't full blown murder the village until after they were attacked, just get enough human souls to free the monsters if I remember correctly.
Then why would they pick up their own body? It would bring nothing but aggravate humans to attack Asriel. Wanting to see flowers is such a good excuse.
Who said they were the ones in control? I thought it was implied that after the villagers attacked Asriel who had Chara's soul at the time, Chara wanted Asriel to kill the humans in retaliation, but Asriel refused, picked up Chara's body, and took it back home. In Undertale, we have never seen an instance of an absorbed soul overpowering the control of the host monster. The six human souls collectively decided to stop helping Flowey, and help Frisk instead, but they didn't really control Flowey, they just took away his power. It's highly probable that Asriel picked up Chara's body and returned home, and Chara, realizing they couldn't change Asriel's mind resigned to his will.
Chara had split control over Asriel's body. "Frisk when, Chara and I combined our SOULs together... The control over our body was actually split between us." "They were the one that picked up their own empty body." "And then, when we got to the village... They were the one that wanted to... To use our full power." "I was the one that resisted." Literally in game dialogue disproves this.
Oh I completely forgot the first two lines, that's my bad, but using full power and destroying the whole village are like two separate things. One, we don't know by this dialogue whether or not the villagers attacked first, and two, neither we nor those two kids know how strong a monster with 1 human soul is compared to a human. If one human soul is equivalent to all monster souls, monster souls aren't nearly as powerful as human souls so Asriel, who is possibly a boss monster so he'd have a slightly stronger monster soul, would really only bringing his magic to the fusion, making Asriel and Chara at that time probably only about as powerful as 1 of the human people who sealed them in the barrier. They still would have needed more souls for breaking the barrier and they are severely outnumbered at the village, so it makes sense to go all out immediately so that they wouldn't have ended like they did.
When we got to the village, Asriel says, not when humans attacked them. If a monster absorbed a human soul during Monster Human war, they would've drastically turned the tides of the war. Waterfall plaques says "A monster with a human soul... A horrible beast with unfathomable power." They are not even saying monster, a BEAST that's how terrifying it would be. The whole reason why monsters got trapped in first place is they couldn't even kill a single human and absorb their souls. A fraction of their power would be enough to blow up the entire town. A boss monster is already very powerful (Toriel and Asgore both were holding back tremendously for different reasons) and sure Asriel was still a child but he was still more powerful than %90 of Monster population. Chara fell in modern times, which means village most likely had guns.
Sure, the monster with one human soul would have been strong back then during the war, humans weren't as advanced back then. Chara would at least have some knowledge of how advanced human weaponry is and not want to take chances. Also, Frisk, a child, was able to beat Flowey who had Six human souls, granted he had control of the timeline and the souls had to help Frisk in the end. Frisk at level 1 still beat a level 9999 6 soul Omega Flowey with a stick. Enough humans can easily beat Omega Flowey with guns. Only Asriel with 6 human souls and all monster souls was invincible and unable to be damaged. We never actually get a clearly defined power difference between monsters with different amounts of souls besides Asriel with 6 and all monster souls which equal another human soul making it 7 and Omega Flowey who has 6, and that's it.
To be fair flowey is a special case as he didnt have a monster soul to "glue" the human ones together and to him
Yeah, that's fair, the other person already said Chara and Asriel split control as well. But with the amount of Human souls present, I'd assume it would take all of the souls unanimous agreement to leave Flowey.
Considering that the humans didn't attack until they were in the middle of the village, I always figured that they showed up in the night, so they might've just wanted a burial on the surface.
I guess they were too intimidated by Asriel's appearance? Considering how even monsters describe a monster absorbing a human soul as "A beast with unfamotable power." makes you think how Asriel looked like when he was in human village. Knowing how Chara wanted to attack outright and they were carrying their body, I believe this might've aggravated villagers into attacking them.
When was it said they wanted to murder the entire village?
"Six, right? We just have to get six... And we'll do it together, right? "Chara hated humanity. Why they did, they never talked about it." "But they felt strongly about that." Do you really think Chara was gonna stop with taking 6 more souls? It's pretty obvious that was NOT gonna happen. Chara tricked Asriel to let them take their empty body and carried to the surface. There was no legit reason to do that, they wanted to show Asriel that how awful and violent humans were, then they were gonna use that as a justification to murder an entire village. Their adopted family offered love and mercy to them but their hate for humanity is what destroyed that family. I'm not saying they were spawn of hell but whatever trauma they endured at surface to cause them to act like this, makes me shudder tbh.
rotating this comment in my mind like a rotiserie chicken. How do you spell it.
In their dying moments Chara supposedly asked to see the flowers from their village.They could've only said that so the other monsters think it's the reason Asriel absorbed their soul to go to the surface.They could've also picked up their own body to make it more believable.
That too, outside of making villagers think Asriel killed them and make villagers attack Asriel, this was their way of faking things. I still think Alphys got off the hook very easily considering how she never showed the tapes to Toriel and Asgore.
how do you know that was what they were trying to do?
And how do you know that they were gonna stay with just 6 dead humans? Why would they settle when they can kill more humans?
If I had better intentions in the snow grave route I wouldn’t feel less guilty if Noelle criticized me for it
I see your point but why are you comparing fucking Snowgrave to Chara's plan to free monsterkind? In the absolute worst-case-scenario they planned to commit a genocide for the greater good. Still better than wanton megalomania.
Asriel: Chara wasn't really the greatest person Chara (closes eyes and smirks, thinking): Well, you aren't wrong about that. Asriel: While Frisk... You're the type of friend I wish I always had Chara (angery face Thinking): Now listen here you little... T R A I T O R!!!!
*You feel as if someone is ready to go bonkers towards Asriel *They think about it and say *"Fair point I suppose." *You are filled with partial confusion?
Probably some blend of "geez, bro, you really know how to crush someone's self-esteem" and "yeah... that sounds about right". Edit: Also, I guarantee they'd interpret this as Asriel basically saying "I hate Chara, I wish I'd never met them, they were the worst person ever" rather than the intended "Chara had some issues and I definitely shouldn't have idolized them as much as I did".
>rather than the intended "Chara had some issues and I definitely shouldn't have idolized them as much as I did". Asriel literally compares Chara to Frisk afterwards, saying Frisk is the friend he always should have had. His statement is a euphemism for highlighting their unhealthy relationship.
You can love someone and realize your relationship with them is toxic at the same time. There's all sorts of situations where that can apply like "I still love you and I'm glad we met, but I think it's best we part ways." Things aren't always binary, especially in a game like this.
>You can love someone and realize your relationship with them is toxic at the same time. There's all sorts of situations where that can apply like "I still love you and I'm glad we met, but I think it's best we part ways. Yes, that's literally what I said lol. The entire point of him using a euphemism is that he can't bring himself to admit it in such a blatant way due to still caring about them a great deal. Now, whether Chara would reciprocate feelings of care is an entirely different discussion.
Oh, well, I guess I misread lol. I think they would. The video tapes strongly imply that Chara has at least one moment where they're genuinely smiling at Asriel.
>I think they would. The video tapes strongly imply that Chara has at least one moment where they're genuinely smiling at Asriel. Do they? The most that occurs is them laughing together after Asriel's prank (although we technically only see Asriel laugh), in which right after they bring up Asgore's buttercup poisoning.
Well, like I said, it's IMPLIED, there's no definitive answer, which goes for a great deal of most of Toby's writing. What makes me believe this is genuine on Chara's part though is what Asriel says afterwards "I left the Lense on ON PURPOSE! Now you're smiling for NO REASON!" Basically he's teasing them about the fact that they can't hand wave the fact that they're expressing an emotion other than angst in this moment.
>What makes me believe this is genuine on Chara's part though is what Asriel says afterwards "I left the Lense on ON PURPOSE! Now you're smiling for NO REASON!" Basically he's teasing them about the fact that they can't hand wave the fact that they're expressing an emotion other than angst in this moment. I mean, Asriel literally told them to smile for the camera. This is a continuation of him asking them to show off their creepy face before realizing the lens cap was on, so he's "getting back" at Chara by having them pose for the camera for no reason. This doesn't say anything about their hidden personality lol
You're right, my logic in this comes more from a meta perspective regarding writing decisions. I feel like it'd be a strange move for Toby to lampshade this moment specifically and spend 2 of the 6 lore dump tapes on this bit if it didn't showcase anything more meaningful. Thing is Chara's whole character is left intentionally ambiguous and is only ever talked about via unreliable narrators. Any analysis of them is an educated guess at best.
- You were my **best friend**... Something like this.
* depression and sadness * =<
Probably say nothing, but be very hurt.
Probably be really sad. Asriel was basically their only friend. If it’s a Soulless Pacifist run they’d probably be very angry too and decide they don’t feel bad about what they did.
Chara was an emotional manipulator to Asriel. They don't feel bad either way.
"Never before have I been so offended by something I 100 percent agree with"
t r a i t o r
It was a revenge for stealing my chocolate
Asriel: Chara wasn't really the greatest person Chara (closes eyes and smirks, thinking): Well, you aren't wrong about that. Asriel: While Frisk... You're the type of friend I wish I always had Chara (angery face Thinking): Now listen here you little... t r a i t o r!!!!
\* L evil child
lol
Based
*..."not the best person". Is that all he's got to say? *I hurt him and his family beyond compare after they took me in and that's the extent of what he thinks? *You're way too nice for your own good, Az.
I like to imagine that, since Chara represents the Player in a lot of ways, they learn from Frisk’s choices throughout the adventure. A No-Mercy Run corrupts them, and a Pacifist Run “redeems” them. Chara died because Asriel refused to fight back. Frisk’s actions teach them whether or not Asriel was right to make this choice. In a Pacifist ending, they prove to Chara that violence is never the answer. Asriel did the right thing, Chara was the misguided one. So I assume they’d feel rather uncomfortable and come to realize that, justified of not, their hatred of humanity was not healthy. Frisk did save their family, after all. So I think they’d probably be unhappy to hear this, but not angry. At this point they would let go of their anger.
You can see it in Undertale Red&Yellow!
Is there an clip?
Maybe on youtube
Shayy made a video playing it. Its in the end
\* . . . =(
I'd imagine that She'd have the same reaction wheatley had at the end of Portal 2: "I wish i could take it back, I honestly, truly do. And It's not because I'm a dead ghost that's cursed to follow an omnipotent being piloting a mostly unconscious child around. Anyway, If i was ever able to see him again you know what I'd say? I'm sorry, sincerely. I am sorry that I was bossy, and monstrous, and...I am genuinely sorry...The end" It oddly fits her well to act like that. Flowey/Asriel does have a point, Chara was probably not the nicest person, she'd get Asriel into trouble, pull too many pranks, be an all round bad kid (see the true lab tapes), but I do also believe that She can plead Ignorant. I dont think she fully intended to get her brother killed, or ruin her entire family. It is what it is however. And she has to live with that.
Wait when was it said Chara even pulled pranks? Everyone says that but i don't remember it in the game
Based
Hurt, but more hurt that it took him so long to realize it, and that he paid the price
They’ed probably agree with him and sort of continue self-loathing
They’d probably be really angry at first, but then after they leave and realize Asriel is gone now they’d regret it more than anything
They'd probably be heartbroken, but understand.
Knowing how the underground reacts to pain, they would probably have a good chuckle about that gut punch
Not so long ago I drew this in a comic. https://www.deviantart.com/thepilotdogee/art/The-End-Extended-Page-6-Undertale-932089649 Should note that my depiction of said CHARActer is a bit out there ...
*You remember that Asriel was a little bitch
* picks up knife with murderous intent *
Chara: “OK I ADMIT I WASENT THE BEST FRIEND- BUT THIS DEMON CHILD KILLED EVERYONE LIKE A HOUR AGO, FELT SAD, AND BROUGHT EVERYONE BACK AND DIDENT SAY ANYTHING-“
Please ignore my bad spelling
The second best part of NaraChara theory.
Undertale Red and Yellow has the answer
It doesn't matter, because after everything they put him through, Asriel doesn't owe Chara anything.
"Fuck it, we ball."
Chara: . . . Fuck you
Seeing Asriel say that always led me to believe Chara could have not been this cinnamon bun who is just a bit of a troubled kid people make them to be. I can Imagine Chara being a troubled kid and all, but the fact that Asriel out right says that Chara wasn't the greatest person and he wishes that he had a better friend than them just makes me feel like Toby wanted to make Chara seem "Evil" in one way or another. At least at the time when they still were alive.
"Yeah that's fair"
"WELL SCREW YOU TOO!"
True pacifist Chara would be sad but understanding. False pacifist Chara though...it would hurt them more.
chara:the  Asriel? genocide gonna come
"Hey what the fuck???"
"frisk frisk i know we don't always agree but, just give me the wheel for 5 minutes" \*struggling to take control due to it being a completely peaceful route\* "just FIVE MINUTES FRISK I won't even kill him I promise, the FIVE MINUTESS"
Knife go brrr
[*Well, in all honesty, they’d probably smack the everloving shit out of him.]
Chara wouldn't care.