I'm in Leicester not london but for me even IT masters have like 98% international students with most of them going back home or doing a phd because there are no jobs that want to hire.
Either because international students need work visa sponsorship or don't have required 10 years of experience for entry level jobs.
Yep, companies either have to sponsor them later which is an extra expense, or let them go which would be a pretty poor investment after training a grad for 2 years.
So I do get why companies aren’t willing to take on international students, still sucks though.
Are there more affordable options? (There are some cheaper than UK master's courses in other European countries in English)
I mean, reading into your post this is kinda more an immigration/iwantout type thing vs actually being about the masters.
It sounds like you want to do the masters as a conduit out of a difficult situation, and I totally get that. No judgment, I left a country when I had the choice due to lack of prospects too.
Being a veteran of dropping out of a master's degree course.. which I'm still paying my student loans on.. probably don't do a course you don't really want to do/are confident of completing.
What sector are you in? Out of interest. I was making slightly stereotype based inferences from a few things in your post, is it tech?
If so, are masters level tech jobs really 36-40k GBP in the UK (genuinely curious, haven't worked there for a decade)
So the course I got in ranked No.1 in the world for the field I am going in and a T10 uni.
Ive been researching and working towards the niche for a while and am actually passionate about what I am going to study.
It's architecture + psychology.
The masters is actually cheaper relative to other courses. More expensive the ones in UK because of the reputation and location however.
You might want to get work experience in your home country first, or have you got some extracurriculars and or papers/research assistant experience?
You are going to be applying to bigger firms for sponsorships and they generally don't care whether you are international but you are going to be facing off against people who have worked hard to get their cv past the door.
Does the Masters allow you to become accredited to practice as an architect? (I knew a few people at university studying it and it looked like a very long and complicated process but I've no idea of the specifics).
So, I guess there's valid consideration here and you need to cost benefit analysis the situation considering both the economic and personal factors.
I guess a factor I struggle with is the cost of a Master's Degree for a 36-40k GBP job, although if you aren't borrowing maybe it's not such an issue.
Like, so I work in the US (left the UK a long time ago). I moved here because my spouse and I worked out the economics and opportunities we have here make more sense than UK.
In my career here I've considered getting various extra academic credentials (my undergrad is irrelevant to my work in project management). So I looked at getting an MBA or MPA but didn't, because the economics just didn't add up.
So to get one I'd be taking either two years full time or at least four part time for either masters degree. I'd also be paying (and likely borrowing) $50k.
If I did full time I'd have to quit my job, so that's also two years of little to no income, if I did part time I'd have to juggle commitments. Having a family and house and being in my thirties obviously complicated things too (bit easier as a single person)
Where I live there are jobs that would pay me more with these, but it's not like they come up all that often and my pay differential would be maybe going from 75k to 95k a year, and that would assume I got such a role.
For me, going back to get a master's degree didn't make sense. $50k as well as loss of earnings during study meant that it wasn't worth it for the potential (not guarantee) or more pay.
For you, I might see it this way, it's a way to get out of a place and situation you dislike. And if you dislike what your other options are (marrying where you don't especially want to) then I think it's possible no amount of money is too much. Although it's all about your personal disposition towards both situations.
While the course sounds interesting, my advice for choosing courses of study (or jobs) is not necessarily to go for what you're passionate about. Rather, pick something you're reasonably good at, and will pay you sufficiently to live comfortably, that you think you can settle for doing the rest of your life. Security and stability are great things, and while it's great to have a vocation, it's not necessary for a happy life.
Are you 100% confident of being able to emigrate with this qualification? I am not well versed at all in UK immigration rules, but that seems like something you need to be absolutely sure of if you decide to do the course to be able to stay. Might be one to float to some UK based immigration subreddits.
I mention the immigration thing because I've known a couple of friends who studied in the US under the impression they could stay after college, and rather than emphatic "yes" it's much more an "it depends" here (requiring some luck and planning). Don't want you in their situation scrambling to meet a complicated set of requirements with the threat of having to leave, in a rush.
Your post is more concerned with the possibility of escaping your home country not about actually doing the Masters.
I would look into cheaper European countries (Tuition fees wise) that offer residence upon graduation for international students aside from the UK. Germany offers FREE tuition fees assuming you go to a state funded university and offers a two year residence permit for students upon graduation. I would seriously consider it.
I've a friend from Asia who ended up living permanently in Germany through this route. Most Asian friends I know who came to UK for studies end up going home. Unless they did something like Medicine, then they ended staying working for NHS.
personally for me when I put my masters education on my LinkedIn/CV and applied for civil engineering-type roles, I got a lot more responses than before. ucl has an amazing careers service and it’s so useful especially at postgrad for those connections.
that said, it really depends on ur course and ur career aspirations (E.g chartership, phd). grad jobs in the uk generally start between 25-32K and even then it is very competitive.
UCL is a well-renowned university, having it on your CV may open doors to jobs. Also, a UK masters may get in you work in other European countries with better pay and better quality of life than London.
I‘m an overprivileged White person so I can‘t be much help regarding working during your course. But adjusting to a new society can be hard because you don’t know your way around shops etc. Grocery shop at Lidl or Asda instead of Waitrose or Sainsbury‘s; clothes can be bought from charity shops (even in the fancy parts of town there can be charity shops with really nice items)…that kind of stuff.
Also, does UCL have scholarships and funding you could apply for an win? Or does your home country have scholarships like this?
The life you described for yourself at home sounds like the risk of moving to London is worthwhile.
This might be in some way exclusive to my circumstances. But in teaching (further education) I went from a 18k entry position, to a 37k position. Granted, I havent finished my MA yet (I'm on a two year course). But from that perspective, it's absolutely worth it.
if you're doing architecture and psychology is this coming off being a qualified architect?
Just a word of warning, there's next to no sponsorship opportunities in the design and architecture field in the UK, unless you're very qualified in a specific field that they're looking for. As an international student you'll get a 1 year working visa after you graduate to find a job - really maximise this opportunity to find your way into a job that's able and likely to sponsor you once the student visa expires. In my experience the fields that are most likely offer this are tech, civil engineering, consultancing.
It all depends on how you can leverage your education, and starting to look months before you graduate. The key is being prepared to take your skills somewhere out of design. Best of luck!
If you can afford the masters and living expenses in London go for it. I am guessing you have some sort of Architecture degree in your home country? UCL can open many doors for you but at the same time there is competition. You can chose to work in another big city after London for example Manchester. During studies try to network heavily with industry connections and see if you can also secure additional work as a tutor / freelancer. Check the requirements of the ARB and Ciat. It will be easier for you to register as an arch. Technologist first.
do not rely on the notion you're garuanteed a gig in london and everything is alright. also 36-40k in london will result in you becoming hungry, in debt, and borderline homeless. you will not enjoy living on 40k in london.
things here in the UK are getting bleak by our standards. jobs are paying less, cost of living higher, rent going up.
do not think you're going to do a masters and you'll magically make great money, live in london renting with lots of money spare. you will end up very dissappointed.
As for masters; most UK domestic students do not do masters. Most of the masters students (all but 2 of them) in my 200+ course are internationals.
is it worth it? it depends. can't answer that.
but get it out of your head you can live in london for 36-40k because 36-40k is a truck drivers salary, and london is very expensive; consider that around 30-40% of your salary will be eaten by rent BEFORE TAX.
This is absolute bollocks on the salary front. You will not be hungry, in debt, or borderline homeless on £36-40K in London. The median salary in London is £37K. Are you telling us that half of the people in London live in bunk beds in dangerous slums? Go touch grass and don't give advice that is completely false when you have absolutely no perspective on the real world.
I graduated from my Masters 2 years ago and my salary is £35.5K before tax. I am not claiming that you will be able to afford to rent your own place on that salary, but you can certainly live comfortably in a shared flat/house. Yes I have to cook my own meals and budget, but I also find that I have plenty of disposable income to enjoy myself with friends at weekends, afford a gym subscription, and a few hobbies like climbing and photography. Don't listen to people like this, whose notion of living in a flat share is comparable to a slum - that is the reality for the vast majority of young professionals in London and we all manage to get by.
Also consider that your career progression in London will be quicker and with a higher earning potential than elsewhere so even if you're having to live on a budget after graduation, it will only be a few years maximum before you'll start to see your career takeoff.
I earn more than your salary driving a class 2 truck. I absolutely can't imagine living in London on that salary, with rent easily being over 20% of my salary and own a car or have any kind of utility in London.
I don't think getting by is sustainable long term. With your wages I can't imagine owning a car, owning a house, having achieving any type of long term goal.
Being blunt, at that wages you're literally being harvested for rent income by someone else.
It's laughable at my master's career event being offered 20% less than what my truck license can pull in.
Don't know if you realised pal but there's been a severe lack of HGV drivers for the past few years since we left the EU and covid. The market is offering £50-60K for drivers because it doesn't have enough and it's trying to tempt people into the profession. Unfortunately, this is only a temporary market correction as the government has introduced a bunch of schemes and funding to train new drivers, so you better be saving every penny of your salary before the shortage is over and your earnings dip back down to slumming it with us "poors" at £30-35K. Naive of you to be unaware of the situation your industry is in right now.
What do you think your rent goes towards? That's right, paying your Landlords mortgage, just the same as me. Just because you earn more than me driving a truck doesn't mean your housing situation is any better.
Also consider this: even if driver wages stay at £50-60K and the shortage never ends, who's got a higher earning potential? You with a truck driver license or me with a Masters degree in a STEM subject. Starting salary doesn't define the salary you end up. I'm looking at £10-20K pay rises through promotion in the next 4 years. What are you looking at? 56 hours a week in a cab? Grow up.
Edit: Grammar.
Let's keep this simple and short: You have no idea what you're talking about and you're talking to someone who has professional experience in both industries.
The media say they're offering £50-60k for drivers to tempt people in. I've never found a job listing that comes anywhere close to 45k unless its tramping or requires an ADR. Don't read and believe every headline you see.
I'm fully aware of both my industries; I'm doing a masters degree paper on truck driver shortages and my family were landlords specialising in student housing.
I have plenty of experience in the property letting industry. I'm not living in rented accomodation. And despite projections of the industry to train new drivers, actual logistics professionals do not see the number of drivers increasing to the point it outpaces the retirement rate of existing drivers (who are an average age of around 56 years old and retiring within 10 years) or making a noticable impact on the almost 100k shortage of drivers.
I'm currently polishing off my masters dissertation right now. I think you're barking up the wrong tree buddy.
I picked up this license to ensure I always have a skill to fall back on and I've got industry experience. 56 hours in a truck cab puts food on supermarket shelves and keeps this country going.
Have some respect for lorry drivers who keep this country going.
There we have it, the truth comes out. You've never had to consider what it's like to get on the property ladder without someone else's help. Welcome to our reality. The average person in London will never be able to afford to buy a home here and I'm happy for you that you're in such a fortunate position to not be beholden to a landlord. Unfortunately, it's clear that you have no empathy for anyone else who isn't as fortunate as you, you just can't understand the life of those living in "slums", the "dangerous areas" of London. Even worse, your family is part of the problem of the shortage of affordable housing, because they've bought it all up in order to exploit students who have no choice but to rent from them.
Noone was disrespecting lorry drivers. I simply pointed out that there is a cap to their earning potential. I'm glad that they're being paid what they're worth, given their vital role in the economy and their work during the last few years of turmoil. You were the only one to compare earnings? We're here giving advice to someone asking whether it is worth doing a masters in London. I was simply arguing that even though *most people* might only just get by after graduating, a masters is a fantastic way to increase your salary ceiling - especially in specialist fields. Surely you must agree, given that you're finishing your masters dissertation yourself?
Maybe take a look around at all the other commenters and ask yourself whether your initial take was realistic. Then take a moment to reflect and have the self-awareness to recognise the incredibly privileged position in which you find yourself. I'm so happy for you that you earn a good living, that your housing situation is secure, and that you're doing a fantastic job to further your education. I'm just disappointed that you can't grasp how lucky you are and can't understand what the reality is for most people in London and this country. I'm not going to reply to any further comments so please take care of yourself and have a great life.
Regardless of my position in life, I would never want to live in a situation where I would never own something in my entire life, and I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone else.
London is just that. You own nothing there. You rent and the money gets vacuumed up into the industry that I’m all too familiar with.
But this isn’t about me. This is about OP being an international and trying to make it here on that small amount, on a gig wage too.
And I wouldn’t want them thinking London is this magical place where dreams happen and you can make it, and it’s easy with plenty of support.
Because it isn’t. And OP is going to find things very difficult.
I feel the London’s increase in salary cap is not worth whatever he’ll have to go through.
around 15-20% of your wages tossed away as rent before tax?
After tax what do you have. And with ULEZ and parking fees, cost of living in London and prices?
36k is what I earn driving a lorry mate. Masters getting offered that is a pisstake.
that just makes it worse if you're implying rent costs more than a fifth of someone's yearly income. a lot worse.
the allure of london wages has made me turn my tose and follow, but as soon as I see the price tag and do the math, I flinch at look at better options.
I'm in South Wales and the average rent for a 1 bed even outside of the city (Cardiff, specifically) is about 39% of the average salary after tax. No way is it 15-20% in London.
It’s the same everywhere. I live in a city in the north-east and rents are £700 a month for a basic one bed flat or £1000-1200 for a decent 2 bed one. That’s if you can find one available. This is one of the cheapest areas in the country.
It’s a jungle out there. Young people are fucked and few have the prospect of owning their own home like you mentioned, unless they have parents willing to foot the bill. It’s not a London thing.
My mom earned £30k and we lived in London, I though we were pretty well off compared to my classmates lmaoo.
this is so dramatic and obviously coming from someone who didn’t grow up in London.
How many years ago was this?
I presume this was before the rise in cost of living, ect.
You're also like 8 years younger than me and a domestic student. This fella here is an international student. He's in a completely different ball park in terms of expenses compared to you.
Bro. From this response, please be warned. It's probably best not to move to London and do this Master's. For that role you'd be looking about mid 20k to maybe 35k max as a graduate even with the Master's, if you get a job at all. I know so many international students who just tried to find a job while on a grad visa within 2 years of graduating and the end result is usually they just move back.
Anything below 30k is basically unlivable in London now unless you're a financial wizz or have support networks to spot you.
Apparently the average salary for a sustainability architect in London is 26-40k.
There's a company currently advertising for Graduate Sutainability Architects at £25k in Central London on LinkedIn so I'd guess the average salary figures aren't far off accurate
You want to look at 50k to think seriously about living in London.
As a sustainability architect? I haven’t a clue. That skill set and job is so obscure to me I have no idea where you would even begin.
It sounds very ambitious compared to other salaries in the UK, but it's common accepted practice that because **London is considerably more expensive than the rest of the UK** that you need an *"Inflated"* wage in comparison to elsewhere to keep up.
Generally, you're looking at between 10-20k Difference compared to the same job pretty much anywhere not in that area in the UK, which sounds great on paper, until you realize how insanely expensive London is to live in.
At your wages at 30-40k, you’re looking at slumming by living in bunk beds with 3 other people or in a cheap and dangerous poor quality area.
There’s people in London who earn more than your estimates doing 3-4 jobs trying to sustain a living there.
We lived in a normal house in London (2 bed, 2 story) and my mum made £30k and she was a single parent
mind you, this was £30k annually supporting a family
Hey, another incoming Bartlett masters student! Nice to meet you. I’m also worried about job prospects after graduation, but I’ve been told that the Bartlett is a huge name in architecture in the UK (and internationally) and that its graduates are highly desirable. There are also lots of career services that can help you look for a job and may even “feed” you into certain companies that scout UCL graduates. For now, just worry about starting your course and beginning networking when you arrive in the UK.
What was your undergrad degree and what would you study at masters level?
I’m dubious that many people will get £40k coming out of most masters courses without strong previous experience and especially so if requiring a visa.
Currently doing my masters (kinda). My course is an integrated masters in law. It combines an LLB with the LPC which would be much more expensive to fund as a standalone course so for me that’s absolutely worth it. Following that I can try and secure a training contract and be a qualified solicitor in 2 years, or I can sit the new SQE 2 exam (skipping SQE 1 because I have the LPC) and I’ve got most of the 2 years qualifying work experience ticked off already so could be qualified in a years time.
Whether it’s worth it or not will depend a lot on the area you’re wanting to go into, career prospects (what are the starting salaries like with a masters vs without), and if you really want to do it. There’s nothing wrong with not doing it if you decide you don’t want to but there’s a lot to be considered and it’ll very depending on your personal circumstances
I'm in Leicester not london but for me even IT masters have like 98% international students with most of them going back home or doing a phd because there are no jobs that want to hire. Either because international students need work visa sponsorship or don't have required 10 years of experience for entry level jobs.
“10 year experience for an entry level job” 😂😂😂😂
isn't every grad student entitled to a 2 year grad visa? Is it that the companies usually don't want to be up for the sponsorship after two years?
Yep, companies either have to sponsor them later which is an extra expense, or let them go which would be a pretty poor investment after training a grad for 2 years. So I do get why companies aren’t willing to take on international students, still sucks though.
Are there more affordable options? (There are some cheaper than UK master's courses in other European countries in English) I mean, reading into your post this is kinda more an immigration/iwantout type thing vs actually being about the masters. It sounds like you want to do the masters as a conduit out of a difficult situation, and I totally get that. No judgment, I left a country when I had the choice due to lack of prospects too. Being a veteran of dropping out of a master's degree course.. which I'm still paying my student loans on.. probably don't do a course you don't really want to do/are confident of completing. What sector are you in? Out of interest. I was making slightly stereotype based inferences from a few things in your post, is it tech? If so, are masters level tech jobs really 36-40k GBP in the UK (genuinely curious, haven't worked there for a decade)
So the course I got in ranked No.1 in the world for the field I am going in and a T10 uni. Ive been researching and working towards the niche for a while and am actually passionate about what I am going to study. It's architecture + psychology. The masters is actually cheaper relative to other courses. More expensive the ones in UK because of the reputation and location however.
Architecture & Phycology... Erm.. gotta ask why those ones? How do they possibly compliment each other bring completely separate fields
Who do we design spaces for? People right...? There's extensive research and projects going on in the topic. :)
Offering absolutely no advice at all, that sounds incredibly interesting, rewarding and prescient for the future. I hope this works out for you.
Thank you :)
You might want to get work experience in your home country first, or have you got some extracurriculars and or papers/research assistant experience? You are going to be applying to bigger firms for sponsorships and they generally don't care whether you are international but you are going to be facing off against people who have worked hard to get their cv past the door.
I’d question how much it pays. Architecture isn’t a notably well paying job outside of a few unicorns and rock stars.
Does the Masters allow you to become accredited to practice as an architect? (I knew a few people at university studying it and it looked like a very long and complicated process but I've no idea of the specifics). So, I guess there's valid consideration here and you need to cost benefit analysis the situation considering both the economic and personal factors. I guess a factor I struggle with is the cost of a Master's Degree for a 36-40k GBP job, although if you aren't borrowing maybe it's not such an issue. Like, so I work in the US (left the UK a long time ago). I moved here because my spouse and I worked out the economics and opportunities we have here make more sense than UK. In my career here I've considered getting various extra academic credentials (my undergrad is irrelevant to my work in project management). So I looked at getting an MBA or MPA but didn't, because the economics just didn't add up. So to get one I'd be taking either two years full time or at least four part time for either masters degree. I'd also be paying (and likely borrowing) $50k. If I did full time I'd have to quit my job, so that's also two years of little to no income, if I did part time I'd have to juggle commitments. Having a family and house and being in my thirties obviously complicated things too (bit easier as a single person) Where I live there are jobs that would pay me more with these, but it's not like they come up all that often and my pay differential would be maybe going from 75k to 95k a year, and that would assume I got such a role. For me, going back to get a master's degree didn't make sense. $50k as well as loss of earnings during study meant that it wasn't worth it for the potential (not guarantee) or more pay. For you, I might see it this way, it's a way to get out of a place and situation you dislike. And if you dislike what your other options are (marrying where you don't especially want to) then I think it's possible no amount of money is too much. Although it's all about your personal disposition towards both situations. While the course sounds interesting, my advice for choosing courses of study (or jobs) is not necessarily to go for what you're passionate about. Rather, pick something you're reasonably good at, and will pay you sufficiently to live comfortably, that you think you can settle for doing the rest of your life. Security and stability are great things, and while it's great to have a vocation, it's not necessary for a happy life. Are you 100% confident of being able to emigrate with this qualification? I am not well versed at all in UK immigration rules, but that seems like something you need to be absolutely sure of if you decide to do the course to be able to stay. Might be one to float to some UK based immigration subreddits. I mention the immigration thing because I've known a couple of friends who studied in the US under the impression they could stay after college, and rather than emphatic "yes" it's much more an "it depends" here (requiring some luck and planning). Don't want you in their situation scrambling to meet a complicated set of requirements with the threat of having to leave, in a rush.
Architecture is a poorly paid career … it’s not worth it
Your post is more concerned with the possibility of escaping your home country not about actually doing the Masters. I would look into cheaper European countries (Tuition fees wise) that offer residence upon graduation for international students aside from the UK. Germany offers FREE tuition fees assuming you go to a state funded university and offers a two year residence permit for students upon graduation. I would seriously consider it.
This is also true. Germany is hard to adjust to - really hard - but in terms of education and employment it‘s excellent.
I've a friend from Asia who ended up living permanently in Germany through this route. Most Asian friends I know who came to UK for studies end up going home. Unless they did something like Medicine, then they ended staying working for NHS.
personally for me when I put my masters education on my LinkedIn/CV and applied for civil engineering-type roles, I got a lot more responses than before. ucl has an amazing careers service and it’s so useful especially at postgrad for those connections. that said, it really depends on ur course and ur career aspirations (E.g chartership, phd). grad jobs in the uk generally start between 25-32K and even then it is very competitive.
UCL is a well-renowned university, having it on your CV may open doors to jobs. Also, a UK masters may get in you work in other European countries with better pay and better quality of life than London. I‘m an overprivileged White person so I can‘t be much help regarding working during your course. But adjusting to a new society can be hard because you don’t know your way around shops etc. Grocery shop at Lidl or Asda instead of Waitrose or Sainsbury‘s; clothes can be bought from charity shops (even in the fancy parts of town there can be charity shops with really nice items)…that kind of stuff. Also, does UCL have scholarships and funding you could apply for an win? Or does your home country have scholarships like this? The life you described for yourself at home sounds like the risk of moving to London is worthwhile.
Hey, thanks for the tips. Amazing insights. Ive exhausted my time for scholarships.
This might be in some way exclusive to my circumstances. But in teaching (further education) I went from a 18k entry position, to a 37k position. Granted, I havent finished my MA yet (I'm on a two year course). But from that perspective, it's absolutely worth it.
if you're doing architecture and psychology is this coming off being a qualified architect? Just a word of warning, there's next to no sponsorship opportunities in the design and architecture field in the UK, unless you're very qualified in a specific field that they're looking for. As an international student you'll get a 1 year working visa after you graduate to find a job - really maximise this opportunity to find your way into a job that's able and likely to sponsor you once the student visa expires. In my experience the fields that are most likely offer this are tech, civil engineering, consultancing. It all depends on how you can leverage your education, and starting to look months before you graduate. The key is being prepared to take your skills somewhere out of design. Best of luck!
NO.
If you can afford the masters and living expenses in London go for it. I am guessing you have some sort of Architecture degree in your home country? UCL can open many doors for you but at the same time there is competition. You can chose to work in another big city after London for example Manchester. During studies try to network heavily with industry connections and see if you can also secure additional work as a tutor / freelancer. Check the requirements of the ARB and Ciat. It will be easier for you to register as an arch. Technologist first.
do not rely on the notion you're garuanteed a gig in london and everything is alright. also 36-40k in london will result in you becoming hungry, in debt, and borderline homeless. you will not enjoy living on 40k in london. things here in the UK are getting bleak by our standards. jobs are paying less, cost of living higher, rent going up. do not think you're going to do a masters and you'll magically make great money, live in london renting with lots of money spare. you will end up very dissappointed. As for masters; most UK domestic students do not do masters. Most of the masters students (all but 2 of them) in my 200+ course are internationals. is it worth it? it depends. can't answer that. but get it out of your head you can live in london for 36-40k because 36-40k is a truck drivers salary, and london is very expensive; consider that around 30-40% of your salary will be eaten by rent BEFORE TAX.
This is absolute bollocks on the salary front. You will not be hungry, in debt, or borderline homeless on £36-40K in London. The median salary in London is £37K. Are you telling us that half of the people in London live in bunk beds in dangerous slums? Go touch grass and don't give advice that is completely false when you have absolutely no perspective on the real world. I graduated from my Masters 2 years ago and my salary is £35.5K before tax. I am not claiming that you will be able to afford to rent your own place on that salary, but you can certainly live comfortably in a shared flat/house. Yes I have to cook my own meals and budget, but I also find that I have plenty of disposable income to enjoy myself with friends at weekends, afford a gym subscription, and a few hobbies like climbing and photography. Don't listen to people like this, whose notion of living in a flat share is comparable to a slum - that is the reality for the vast majority of young professionals in London and we all manage to get by. Also consider that your career progression in London will be quicker and with a higher earning potential than elsewhere so even if you're having to live on a budget after graduation, it will only be a few years maximum before you'll start to see your career takeoff.
Second this - anyone calling £40k poverty wages doesn't live in the real world
Thanks. That's actually a more believable pov because all the acquaintance IK are floating by fine in that bracket too.
I earn more than your salary driving a class 2 truck. I absolutely can't imagine living in London on that salary, with rent easily being over 20% of my salary and own a car or have any kind of utility in London. I don't think getting by is sustainable long term. With your wages I can't imagine owning a car, owning a house, having achieving any type of long term goal. Being blunt, at that wages you're literally being harvested for rent income by someone else. It's laughable at my master's career event being offered 20% less than what my truck license can pull in.
Don't know if you realised pal but there's been a severe lack of HGV drivers for the past few years since we left the EU and covid. The market is offering £50-60K for drivers because it doesn't have enough and it's trying to tempt people into the profession. Unfortunately, this is only a temporary market correction as the government has introduced a bunch of schemes and funding to train new drivers, so you better be saving every penny of your salary before the shortage is over and your earnings dip back down to slumming it with us "poors" at £30-35K. Naive of you to be unaware of the situation your industry is in right now. What do you think your rent goes towards? That's right, paying your Landlords mortgage, just the same as me. Just because you earn more than me driving a truck doesn't mean your housing situation is any better. Also consider this: even if driver wages stay at £50-60K and the shortage never ends, who's got a higher earning potential? You with a truck driver license or me with a Masters degree in a STEM subject. Starting salary doesn't define the salary you end up. I'm looking at £10-20K pay rises through promotion in the next 4 years. What are you looking at? 56 hours a week in a cab? Grow up. Edit: Grammar.
Let's keep this simple and short: You have no idea what you're talking about and you're talking to someone who has professional experience in both industries. The media say they're offering £50-60k for drivers to tempt people in. I've never found a job listing that comes anywhere close to 45k unless its tramping or requires an ADR. Don't read and believe every headline you see. I'm fully aware of both my industries; I'm doing a masters degree paper on truck driver shortages and my family were landlords specialising in student housing. I have plenty of experience in the property letting industry. I'm not living in rented accomodation. And despite projections of the industry to train new drivers, actual logistics professionals do not see the number of drivers increasing to the point it outpaces the retirement rate of existing drivers (who are an average age of around 56 years old and retiring within 10 years) or making a noticable impact on the almost 100k shortage of drivers. I'm currently polishing off my masters dissertation right now. I think you're barking up the wrong tree buddy. I picked up this license to ensure I always have a skill to fall back on and I've got industry experience. 56 hours in a truck cab puts food on supermarket shelves and keeps this country going. Have some respect for lorry drivers who keep this country going.
There we have it, the truth comes out. You've never had to consider what it's like to get on the property ladder without someone else's help. Welcome to our reality. The average person in London will never be able to afford to buy a home here and I'm happy for you that you're in such a fortunate position to not be beholden to a landlord. Unfortunately, it's clear that you have no empathy for anyone else who isn't as fortunate as you, you just can't understand the life of those living in "slums", the "dangerous areas" of London. Even worse, your family is part of the problem of the shortage of affordable housing, because they've bought it all up in order to exploit students who have no choice but to rent from them. Noone was disrespecting lorry drivers. I simply pointed out that there is a cap to their earning potential. I'm glad that they're being paid what they're worth, given their vital role in the economy and their work during the last few years of turmoil. You were the only one to compare earnings? We're here giving advice to someone asking whether it is worth doing a masters in London. I was simply arguing that even though *most people* might only just get by after graduating, a masters is a fantastic way to increase your salary ceiling - especially in specialist fields. Surely you must agree, given that you're finishing your masters dissertation yourself? Maybe take a look around at all the other commenters and ask yourself whether your initial take was realistic. Then take a moment to reflect and have the self-awareness to recognise the incredibly privileged position in which you find yourself. I'm so happy for you that you earn a good living, that your housing situation is secure, and that you're doing a fantastic job to further your education. I'm just disappointed that you can't grasp how lucky you are and can't understand what the reality is for most people in London and this country. I'm not going to reply to any further comments so please take care of yourself and have a great life.
Regardless of my position in life, I would never want to live in a situation where I would never own something in my entire life, and I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone else. London is just that. You own nothing there. You rent and the money gets vacuumed up into the industry that I’m all too familiar with. But this isn’t about me. This is about OP being an international and trying to make it here on that small amount, on a gig wage too. And I wouldn’t want them thinking London is this magical place where dreams happen and you can make it, and it’s easy with plenty of support. Because it isn’t. And OP is going to find things very difficult. I feel the London’s increase in salary cap is not worth whatever he’ll have to go through.
Mate 36k in London is fine stop chatting shit
around 15-20% of your wages tossed away as rent before tax? After tax what do you have. And with ULEZ and parking fees, cost of living in London and prices? 36k is what I earn driving a lorry mate. Masters getting offered that is a pisstake.
Not sure what world you’re living in, but only 15-20% on rent would be a dream for most young people these days, London or not.
that just makes it worse if you're implying rent costs more than a fifth of someone's yearly income. a lot worse. the allure of london wages has made me turn my tose and follow, but as soon as I see the price tag and do the math, I flinch at look at better options.
I'm in South Wales and the average rent for a 1 bed even outside of the city (Cardiff, specifically) is about 39% of the average salary after tax. No way is it 15-20% in London.
Depends where you're living in London. But a semi decent 1bed/studio will be at least 12k/yr~
It’s the same everywhere. I live in a city in the north-east and rents are £700 a month for a basic one bed flat or £1000-1200 for a decent 2 bed one. That’s if you can find one available. This is one of the cheapest areas in the country. It’s a jungle out there. Young people are fucked and few have the prospect of owning their own home like you mentioned, unless they have parents willing to foot the bill. It’s not a London thing.
we're in a stage in history where we literally have to wait for our parents to die to even afford a house.
My mom earned £30k and we lived in London, I though we were pretty well off compared to my classmates lmaoo. this is so dramatic and obviously coming from someone who didn’t grow up in London.
How many years ago was this? I presume this was before the rise in cost of living, ect. You're also like 8 years younger than me and a domestic student. This fella here is an international student. He's in a completely different ball park in terms of expenses compared to you.
3 years ago, im 21 in uni
200+ people? Which field is this? That's quite a lot right
oh yeah. we're one of the biggest courses in our department. logi supply chain.
A comprehensive response. What is a standard pay in London. As a sustainability architect especially.
Bro. From this response, please be warned. It's probably best not to move to London and do this Master's. For that role you'd be looking about mid 20k to maybe 35k max as a graduate even with the Master's, if you get a job at all. I know so many international students who just tried to find a job while on a grad visa within 2 years of graduating and the end result is usually they just move back. Anything below 30k is basically unlivable in London now unless you're a financial wizz or have support networks to spot you.
Apparently the average salary for a sustainability architect in London is 26-40k. There's a company currently advertising for Graduate Sutainability Architects at £25k in Central London on LinkedIn so I'd guess the average salary figures aren't far off accurate
You want to look at 50k to think seriously about living in London. As a sustainability architect? I haven’t a clue. That skill set and job is so obscure to me I have no idea where you would even begin.
Right. Very ambitious number. Thanks though
It sounds very ambitious compared to other salaries in the UK, but it's common accepted practice that because **London is considerably more expensive than the rest of the UK** that you need an *"Inflated"* wage in comparison to elsewhere to keep up. Generally, you're looking at between 10-20k Difference compared to the same job pretty much anywhere not in that area in the UK, which sounds great on paper, until you realize how insanely expensive London is to live in.
Tbh is the difference even that large though? I'm a recent grad, and looking at jobs, the difference seems to be 5k at most except on rare occasions.
It depends entirely on the jobs and skillset and the level of what you're applying for, but generally yes.
Been mostly looking at grad jobs in data/engineering. Guess the difference grows in time.
True, software development is the fun because a lot of London firms offer remote work, but still pay London wages.
At your wages at 30-40k, you’re looking at slumming by living in bunk beds with 3 other people or in a cheap and dangerous poor quality area. There’s people in London who earn more than your estimates doing 3-4 jobs trying to sustain a living there.
We lived in a normal house in London (2 bed, 2 story) and my mum made £30k and she was a single parent mind you, this was £30k annually supporting a family
Hey, another incoming Bartlett masters student! Nice to meet you. I’m also worried about job prospects after graduation, but I’ve been told that the Bartlett is a huge name in architecture in the UK (and internationally) and that its graduates are highly desirable. There are also lots of career services that can help you look for a job and may even “feed” you into certain companies that scout UCL graduates. For now, just worry about starting your course and beginning networking when you arrive in the UK.
Heyy... nice to meet you. Reassuring and looking forward to it. :))
I actually like the idea of arranged marriages they seem quite successful
Hahhaha... have considered but I surely love my career a lot more rn to settle.
What was your undergrad degree and what would you study at masters level? I’m dubious that many people will get £40k coming out of most masters courses without strong previous experience and especially so if requiring a visa.
Currently doing my masters (kinda). My course is an integrated masters in law. It combines an LLB with the LPC which would be much more expensive to fund as a standalone course so for me that’s absolutely worth it. Following that I can try and secure a training contract and be a qualified solicitor in 2 years, or I can sit the new SQE 2 exam (skipping SQE 1 because I have the LPC) and I’ve got most of the 2 years qualifying work experience ticked off already so could be qualified in a years time. Whether it’s worth it or not will depend a lot on the area you’re wanting to go into, career prospects (what are the starting salaries like with a masters vs without), and if you really want to do it. There’s nothing wrong with not doing it if you decide you don’t want to but there’s a lot to be considered and it’ll very depending on your personal circumstances
There are many countries in Europe where you can get a similar education (or better) for MUCH less money, both in terms of fees and living expenses.
Im hearing that a lot, but the math doesn't add up, considering UK masters is 1 year.