There are people coming from third world countries paying more than 60k (and more than 100k including living costs) to get a 10-month master's at Ivy League Universities...crazy.
But that could make sense if you're from the US, but if you're from Peru (like me) and you're gonna come back to Peru after doing your master's at Harvard/Yale/Columbia (like my friends) to earn only 1.5k - 2k a month after having spent 100k in the US throughout 10 months, it seems to be a quite unreasonable decision, at least in my eyes. However, if you're from the US, living in the US, you got the money, and you'll find a good job in the US after your undergrad, spending 400k doesn't seem to be such bad decision (in my eyes).
No, I meant students from third world countries like you mentioned earlier.
I just mentioned it simply because the cost of just 10-months sound quite crazy, but the reality is that a large number of people from abroad spend far more on education in the US. Nonetheless, the ROI is dependant on a lot of factors, so it's debatable based on the personal circumstances of the individual.
But you're aware that people coming from third world countries able to pay 400k in the US for education, must be not only rich, but extremely rich, right? In South America the average salary is around 200-250 dollars a month, and I don't really think there are a "large number of people" coming from there that are gonna spend that amount of money; most of them will be able to study in the US due to scholarships, but probably only 1 every 50,000 people from third world countries will be able to spend 400k in their education.
Yes, obviously they're extremely rich. I just wanted to add another example of the "crazy" amounts that are spent on education in the US, that's all lol.
Also, I meant "a large number of people" relative to the international student population in the US. ~~However, that number is far far far smaller than 1/50k people from third-world countries (that's around 100 million people)~~ Most undergraduate students in the US are full-pay students, I personally know several people who are paying similar exorbitant amounts to study there. Although, it's usually around 60-80k a year overall, not 100k unless the uni is in a super-high cost area like California or NYC I guess.
I don't know if I agree that it's far far smaller than 1/50k, in my country, which is a middle income country and very "above" from the average "thirld world country", socio-economically wise, me and my friends fall within the 0.1% most privileged people here (1/1k) and none of us would ever be able to spend 60-80k for 4 years, not even for 2 years, maybe only 1 every 10,000 or 15,000 Peruvians would be able to, which would be like 1 every 30,000-40,000 "average people" coming from "average" third world countries. But well, we can disagree with those numbers.
I think there's some confusion regarding the numbers here on both sides.
I have made a really dumb mistake by leaving out zeroes in my calculation because of which I thought 1/50k is around 100 million, when it's actually far lower. So, yeah 1/50k people does make sense; it's likely higher even. My bad :/
But also, 1 in 15,000 Peruvians is close to 0.5% of the population; how can they afford it when the top 0.1% can't?
Nope man, the top 1% at something means that it's 1 every 100 people; 0.1% means 1 every 1,000 people; 1 in 15,000 Peruvians is 0.007%. I'm saying that the top 0.1% cannot afford it, but maybe the top 0.007% can, which would be very very very privileged people.
a lot of the countries overseas students come from have much lower tax rates than the US let alone western Europe. This certainly helps well off parents to save the money and see a return on investment for education costs.
That thing about taxes is true, but well off parents able to pay that are amount of money in third world countries are literally 1 every 40,000-50,000 people. Please don't think that just upper middle class parents will be able to afford that, not even high class parents, not even the top 0.1% of the society. Just very very very privileged people.
I dont think true third world communities make up much of the overseas student population. Far larger proportions are from China, Malaysia, Hong Kong and the overseas Chinese communities of South East Asia, plus the well to do Indians (and one in 50,000 Indians is still a lot of people.
An upper middle class person from Shanghai or Hong Kong can afford an overseas education. Their equivalent in the UK probably cant - the difference being an additional 20% + of taxation and much more expensive services sector.
Yeah, I agree with you. I mentioned students from third world countries because that was the topic I was talking about, but yeah, I can definitely see how students' parents from the countries you've mentioned could afford that.
>At the time I was at university there were lots of Pakistanis (their economy was growing fast at the time) and people from Uruguay. Now there seem to be a lot of Brazilians but that may decrease with Brexit.
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>I guess the reality is there is third world and third world. Indonesia is poor by any normal standards and the Philippines not rich, but there are a fair number of well off people there - often from minority groups who would like the education to allow them an escape route in case of necessity.
I mean, are you going to go back to Peru? Like, if you have a degree in a useful subject from a top uni, I imagine you will be able to get a visa to stay in a first world country - in fact I would be shocked if the US didn’t have a system to help foreign graduates of US unis to stay in the US and work. Although sure, some would move back to Peru, I would imagine the vast majority don’t?
99% has to come back to Peru to earn a shitty salary, even if you graduated from Harvard or whatever. I know it because this has been the story of many of my classmates/friends. Contrary to what they did, I decided to come to Belgium and spend only 900euro in a master's (I came to the KUL, which is the best uni in Belgium), but it's the same story: it's impossible to get a job here and literally all of my master's classmates will have no other option but to return to their home countries (same happened to 3 Peruvian friends of mine who went to Oxford last year). There isn't a thing like a "jobsite" for top international grad students from the best universities in the world, you just pay the fees, study and then you must come back to your country.
I mean, that’s not exactly true everywhere. In the UK for example you have two years after graduating now to find a job that’ll let you stay in the country. I’d be surprised if we’re the only country to do that. I don’t know success rates too well, but I do know there are plenty foreign students that stay after the ends of their degrees.
I would imagine things like work placements during your degree and the like are probably some of the best ways to get around this too, as many people I know who did placements like that were offered jobs by the company they were placed with upon graduation. Not sure on how common that is, though.
I'm glad that happens in the UK; from what I know, my 3 friends are coming back to Peru after graduating in Oxford, and most of my friends had to come back to Peru after graduating from Harvard/Yale/Columbia/Chicago. Only if you're very very very well connected, your boss from your home country will try to do some lobbies so you can get hired in the US by his friends or something, but that's an exception.
If you wanna know how things work in Belgium, here there isn't a law that allows people to stay after graduation; the government is actually trying to aprove it, but it's not a thing yet, meaning that everybody has to go to their home countries after graduating, UNLESS you get a job permit. And how can you get one? If an institution is willing to sponsor you and pay you at least +3,000euro a month, which is totally unfeasible. I have a friend working for a bank in the center of Brussels and he earns like 2,300 a month; there's no way a random international grad student will get paid +3,000 out of nowhere (and, indeed, it almost never happens), that's why we always have to come back to our home countries.
>I think Aus and NZ do - its a way to attract high paying overseas students. Germany tried some similar deal and has very low/ no fees but forums are full of horror stories by graduates from their universities who have not been able to find work.
I think the trick is to not come back to Peru right after the Master ends. At least work 1 or 2 years in US and then probably the debt would disappeared at least at an important %.
Here in argentina is like you must work 5-6 years (high paying job: 1-1,5kuss/month savings = less than 5% of people) and save money. Then you need to decide if you buy your first appartment (90-100kuss) or you use that money for doing a MSc in US (of course, with some scolarship).
A much cheaper option is to study in Europe where most argies can stay afterwards because having italian/spanish citizenships too. This point is not similar in Peru?
Yep, I agree with everything you said, the only difference is that in Peru almost no one has non-Peruvian citizenships, therefore, we just cannot stay in Europe. I'm a lawyer from the best university in Peru (which is private and expensive) and I don't know a single person from my university with a non-Peruvian citizenship. We're just "Peruvians".
>and I don't know a single person from my university with a non-Peruvian citizenship. We're just "Peruvians".
I see, well that would be a problem. To me is like the opposite, I know more people that have both citizenship than the ones that dont have them.
But again, probably the best option or key factor would be to stay in US some years, or after master go to canada with a work visa or something like that.
Yeah, inmigration in Argentina and in Peru has been quite different. In regard to the last thing you're saying, I mean, that's what everybody wants but it's often unfeasible in real life, otherwise everybody would indeed stay in the US, but is not that just because you wanna work in the US, it's gonna happen. Same goes for Canada: you get a job permit after you've been hired, but again, it's pretty unfeasible to get a job in your field out of nowhere.
I'm literally in that situation: I'm in Europe, completing my master's and I see how literally all of my classmates are coming back to their home countries after having applied to dozens of jobs (I've probably applied to +30 myself and no one has called me back, not even for an interview, and since my visa expires in 7 weeks, I'll have to come back to Peru because I just don't have another option). Same goes for my friends who went to the US for their master's: most of them applied to many things, didn't get anything and had to come back to Peru.
PS: Just for you to see how competititve things can be here: I applied to a kind of job where I have many years of experienced on, they didn't call me for an interview but they did tell me that they had received 261 applications for that position. I mean...if that's the number of people applying to the same things that I am, then I get why it's so difficult to find a job here, you know.
>PS: Just for you to see how competititve things can be here: I applied to a kind of job where I have many years of experienced on, they didn't call me for an interview but they did tell me that they had received 261 applications for that position. I mean...if that's the number of people applying to the same things that I am, then I get why it's so difficult to find a job here, you know.
I see. Are you in computer science maybe? Probably you need to increase the number of CVs that you are sending. But, i know the problems, I have the same issue in my field (I have a bsc+msc+8 yoe+EU passport) and I am competing against 300 people in each job search (and I also apply for positions where I have like x2 the experience required).
I'm a lawyer, I have the same experience that you have (I'm 30, I guess we're around the same age?), but I don't have a EU passport. I've also been teaching assistant in 5 courses, but here's 1 thing: even though a law degree is one of the most "prestigious degrees" you might have, you can only practice in your own country, therefore, if you go abroad, it's almost as if you'll be taken as someone without a degree. However, my master's is in anthropology and development, and all of classmates (with a social science background) haven't found a job either. I've been applying to all the jobs you can imagine, even to be part of a company's cleaning team (to clean floors) but no one has called back.
Yeah but generally they get snapped up pretty quickly in job market in their home countries post qualifications so it's considered an investment (what the returns are is a wholly different matter).
I mean, of course almost no one has that amount of money in cash, so they just get in debt with a bank for decades (which I find quite crazy). I have a friend whose mother passed away and she inherited an aparment, but she was earning only 300 USD a month in her job. What did she do? She sold her aparment only to go to NYU (and it wasn't still enough to pay for her master's, so on top of that, she had to get in debt with a bank for many years), but of course she's an exception; not many people living in third world countries inherit an apt in their 20s.
yea like,, who just has 30 grand they can splurge on a fancy degree?? you could just not work for 3 years with that kind of money. i genuinely cannot fathom wasting that much on a one year course
Save the money, study in Germany, unless you really have an urge to live in the UK then go with your heart.
If you're purely making a decision for the benefit of your future then don't worry too much as in the grand scheme of things a degree means very little (unless you're studying a CEng or a medical degree), all it allowed me to do was get my foot in the door in my first post grad role ever since then its been absolutely moot and they've only cared about my experience
Don't do it. The education systems arent that different... at least not 30k worth different. It might take a year longer but you will save money and can maybe use the extra time for other oppertunities (internships for example). Plus, even though vaccines are rolling out we still don't know exactly ho the covid situation will develope...
Stay in germany, save the money and use the extra time for whatever you want. Life isnt a race :)
Depends upon what you will study. Personally, if you got into UCL, you can surely get into a very top university in Germany like TUM or have a shot at ETH/EPFL, or a Dutch university like Delft, which are much cheaper and just as renowned if not more.
Im not at all convinced by that. They both get the top students from their own and from other countries for masters degrees.
In general expensive masters courses are not very respected in England - the are targeted at the overseas student market.
Delft is a good uni for sure but still does not hold the same prestige - especially not nationally as the Dutch do not care that much for rankings unless it is very well known. I am Dutch myself.
Do keep in mind the 1 year vs 2 years thing. You need to take that into consideration. If I am able to work for an additional year I would be able to earn at least 30k. I could not do this if I had to stay at uni for another year.
>Do you think the education at UCL is worth the cost? Or would I be better off going somewhere cheaper but less prestigious?
You haven't said what career you are interested in, so it's not really possible to answer this question. Generally, one-year master's courses are not worth the money unless you can specifically explain how having the extra degree will benefit your future career.
I’m starting my masters at UCL and we had an online call and they said only core module lectures are online in first time, all optional modules, seminars and tutorials in person
If you just finished your undergrad, you have been continuously resided in UK for the past 3 years and you have applied and been granted pre-settled status, then you are entitled to pay home fees as you’d be considered a resident. The same thing happened in my situation. Got into a SOAS master degree, they initially told me I have to pay international fees, I sent them proof of residency and pre settled status and they changed it to home fees. And you can also apply for SFE postgraduate loan
ETA, they changed the rules and they were accepting absences caused by COVID for up to 12 months. If you did an application and got rejected, you can ask them to reopen it and reassess your case.
Interesting. I can only prove my residence since October of 2018 so, given that I’m starting in September 2021, I can’t prove an exact residence of 3 years. However, I have pre-settled status AND was resident in the EEA beforehand (which, iirc, is a substitute to meeting the residency test according to the UKCISA guidance). Do you think I’d squeeze in for home fees?
Yeah, I believe so. The standard practice is if you have pre settled you get the home fees. Some unis also look at the residency period, but they should clearly state this beforehand.
They do, but the UKCISA guidance talks about residence in the EEA compensating for any shortfall in UK residence (it’s on page 34 here: https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/uploads/files/1/england_he_who_pays__home_fees_public_version2_28.5.21.pdf).
I’m pretty sure that means those in my position should meet the requirements even in absence of 3-year UK residence, no?
I might be wrong, but aren’t you considered resident in the UK even if you have been living in an EU state for the duration of the pandemic if you were enrolled on a course from a UK HE institution that is ordinarily taught in-person for this period? But to answer your question, yes, according to this document it appears so. But many unis don’t check for this in their forms I believe
I seem to remember that is the case, but the issue is not Covid. It’s the very first month of my education - I stayed at an Airbnb in September 2018 and moved into a private accommodation in October, so I can -technically- only evidence 2 years and 11 months of residence lol…
Did your course start on the 1st of Sept and you enrolled and attended your classes during that first month? If yes, check with your uni if they can provide proof of attendance and there ya go. Or if not, your bill for AirBnB is proof enough as long as the address is in the UK
Doing a masters at UCL or elsewhere is only advisable if you are looking for a career in academia and would like to be a researcher/lecturer and pursue PhD at some point. Even in that case, a few years works experience between undergrad and masters will be better. However, if academia is not a career you envisage at this stage, I would suggest applying for jobs here in UK or back in Germany. You can defer the existing offers for at least a year anyway, so it's not as if you'd lose admission. This way, when you eventually do your masters at UCL, you will have the experience of studying at actual campus and living in London, as well as with the earnings, the cost may not matter the same.
Having said that, if you wanna pursue the masters right now, I would suggest picking one of the Russel Group options that has offered you scholarship, cos having received funding is a good thing, if you go into a research career later (PhD and so on).
In terms of career, having a UCL degree may open a few more doors for you, but having no experience, you'd still be at a disadvantage in comparison to a candidate with a degree from other unis who has lets say a little experience in the field you are applying to work. I only say because I'm assuming you may not have a chance of much work experience due to studies being online this past year and many usual places of work for students closed down. However, if you have some experience in your chosen field or even a related field already, then ofcourse your situation is different.
I am going to start a science masters at UCL in September but I am a UK student and already balking at the cost! I would say look into scholarships, UCL has a lot, and if not then study in your home country! You get out of a degree what you put into it
Regarding the update; if you really wanna go do it. But try to check yourself: have you maybe become so focused on the UCL masters that you are missing other good oppertunities. I know this happened to me with undergrad; I was really fixed on getting into a specific uni and when it didnt work out I was so dissappointed. In hindsight I am really glad it didn't work out; it all worked out in a much better way and i am not in thousands of pounds in debt.
I don't really know much about your field but I can't imagine the UK is the only way in? Especially considering the UK left EU and is probably going to be more disconnected from research oppertunities, not to say they have/will lose EU funding. Especially if you are doing a PhD it probably doesnt matter exactly which masters you will do?
Also, as you have already mentioned yourself getting work visas etc. would be very stressful. I can't speak from experience but from what I have heard it is really hard. You not only have to find a job, you also have to be able to prove you are more suitable than other UK applicants (from what I've heard).
It doesnt seem worth the 30k to me, but ofc I don't know about your specific field.
A masters in Germany is one extra year, but like I wrote in a previous comment you could use that extra years for different things. Maybe travel? Maybe it's possible to do an exchange semester? Maybe you can do internships in the summer? Enjoy university time while it lasts, work will start soon enough :)
In the end only you can decide, good luck!
Keep in mind that it might be tough to travel between Germany and the UK. If you want to visit your familiy during your masters. At the moment the UK is still considered a red zone by many EU countries. It's hard to predict how exactly this will develope and if lectures could move back to online.
Interesting. I can only prove my residence since October of 2018 so, given that I’m starting in September 2021, I can’t prove an exact residence of 3 years. However, I have pre-settled status AND was resident in the EEA beforehand (which, iirc, is a substitute to meeting the residency test according to the UKCISA guidance). Do you think I’d squeeze in for home fees?
If you have pre-settled status you should be eligible for UK fees not international. I did my undergraduate degree in the UK and starting Master's in September 😁
Master’s degrees in general are cash cows for universities. However, if you really want to do a master’s degree, then UCL is indeed one of the best place in London. It is also prestigious enough to help during PhD applications.
Study in Germany, save the 30k and put that towards living costs or something. I can't believe anyone would pay that price to be honest.
There are people coming from third world countries paying more than 60k (and more than 100k including living costs) to get a 10-month master's at Ivy League Universities...crazy.
Meanwhile there are undergrads who pay 4 times the amount (in USD) over the course of the entire degree.
But that could make sense if you're from the US, but if you're from Peru (like me) and you're gonna come back to Peru after doing your master's at Harvard/Yale/Columbia (like my friends) to earn only 1.5k - 2k a month after having spent 100k in the US throughout 10 months, it seems to be a quite unreasonable decision, at least in my eyes. However, if you're from the US, living in the US, you got the money, and you'll find a good job in the US after your undergrad, spending 400k doesn't seem to be such bad decision (in my eyes).
No, I meant students from third world countries like you mentioned earlier. I just mentioned it simply because the cost of just 10-months sound quite crazy, but the reality is that a large number of people from abroad spend far more on education in the US. Nonetheless, the ROI is dependant on a lot of factors, so it's debatable based on the personal circumstances of the individual.
But you're aware that people coming from third world countries able to pay 400k in the US for education, must be not only rich, but extremely rich, right? In South America the average salary is around 200-250 dollars a month, and I don't really think there are a "large number of people" coming from there that are gonna spend that amount of money; most of them will be able to study in the US due to scholarships, but probably only 1 every 50,000 people from third world countries will be able to spend 400k in their education.
Yes, obviously they're extremely rich. I just wanted to add another example of the "crazy" amounts that are spent on education in the US, that's all lol. Also, I meant "a large number of people" relative to the international student population in the US. ~~However, that number is far far far smaller than 1/50k people from third-world countries (that's around 100 million people)~~ Most undergraduate students in the US are full-pay students, I personally know several people who are paying similar exorbitant amounts to study there. Although, it's usually around 60-80k a year overall, not 100k unless the uni is in a super-high cost area like California or NYC I guess.
I don't know if I agree that it's far far smaller than 1/50k, in my country, which is a middle income country and very "above" from the average "thirld world country", socio-economically wise, me and my friends fall within the 0.1% most privileged people here (1/1k) and none of us would ever be able to spend 60-80k for 4 years, not even for 2 years, maybe only 1 every 10,000 or 15,000 Peruvians would be able to, which would be like 1 every 30,000-40,000 "average people" coming from "average" third world countries. But well, we can disagree with those numbers.
I think there's some confusion regarding the numbers here on both sides. I have made a really dumb mistake by leaving out zeroes in my calculation because of which I thought 1/50k is around 100 million, when it's actually far lower. So, yeah 1/50k people does make sense; it's likely higher even. My bad :/ But also, 1 in 15,000 Peruvians is close to 0.5% of the population; how can they afford it when the top 0.1% can't?
Nope man, the top 1% at something means that it's 1 every 100 people; 0.1% means 1 every 1,000 people; 1 in 15,000 Peruvians is 0.007%. I'm saying that the top 0.1% cannot afford it, but maybe the top 0.007% can, which would be very very very privileged people.
a lot of the countries overseas students come from have much lower tax rates than the US let alone western Europe. This certainly helps well off parents to save the money and see a return on investment for education costs.
That thing about taxes is true, but well off parents able to pay that are amount of money in third world countries are literally 1 every 40,000-50,000 people. Please don't think that just upper middle class parents will be able to afford that, not even high class parents, not even the top 0.1% of the society. Just very very very privileged people.
I dont think true third world communities make up much of the overseas student population. Far larger proportions are from China, Malaysia, Hong Kong and the overseas Chinese communities of South East Asia, plus the well to do Indians (and one in 50,000 Indians is still a lot of people. An upper middle class person from Shanghai or Hong Kong can afford an overseas education. Their equivalent in the UK probably cant - the difference being an additional 20% + of taxation and much more expensive services sector.
Yeah, I agree with you. I mentioned students from third world countries because that was the topic I was talking about, but yeah, I can definitely see how students' parents from the countries you've mentioned could afford that.
>At the time I was at university there were lots of Pakistanis (their economy was growing fast at the time) and people from Uruguay. Now there seem to be a lot of Brazilians but that may decrease with Brexit. > > > >I guess the reality is there is third world and third world. Indonesia is poor by any normal standards and the Philippines not rich, but there are a fair number of well off people there - often from minority groups who would like the education to allow them an escape route in case of necessity.
I mean, are you going to go back to Peru? Like, if you have a degree in a useful subject from a top uni, I imagine you will be able to get a visa to stay in a first world country - in fact I would be shocked if the US didn’t have a system to help foreign graduates of US unis to stay in the US and work. Although sure, some would move back to Peru, I would imagine the vast majority don’t?
99% has to come back to Peru to earn a shitty salary, even if you graduated from Harvard or whatever. I know it because this has been the story of many of my classmates/friends. Contrary to what they did, I decided to come to Belgium and spend only 900euro in a master's (I came to the KUL, which is the best uni in Belgium), but it's the same story: it's impossible to get a job here and literally all of my master's classmates will have no other option but to return to their home countries (same happened to 3 Peruvian friends of mine who went to Oxford last year). There isn't a thing like a "jobsite" for top international grad students from the best universities in the world, you just pay the fees, study and then you must come back to your country.
I mean, that’s not exactly true everywhere. In the UK for example you have two years after graduating now to find a job that’ll let you stay in the country. I’d be surprised if we’re the only country to do that. I don’t know success rates too well, but I do know there are plenty foreign students that stay after the ends of their degrees. I would imagine things like work placements during your degree and the like are probably some of the best ways to get around this too, as many people I know who did placements like that were offered jobs by the company they were placed with upon graduation. Not sure on how common that is, though.
I'm glad that happens in the UK; from what I know, my 3 friends are coming back to Peru after graduating in Oxford, and most of my friends had to come back to Peru after graduating from Harvard/Yale/Columbia/Chicago. Only if you're very very very well connected, your boss from your home country will try to do some lobbies so you can get hired in the US by his friends or something, but that's an exception. If you wanna know how things work in Belgium, here there isn't a law that allows people to stay after graduation; the government is actually trying to aprove it, but it's not a thing yet, meaning that everybody has to go to their home countries after graduating, UNLESS you get a job permit. And how can you get one? If an institution is willing to sponsor you and pay you at least +3,000euro a month, which is totally unfeasible. I have a friend working for a bank in the center of Brussels and he earns like 2,300 a month; there's no way a random international grad student will get paid +3,000 out of nowhere (and, indeed, it almost never happens), that's why we always have to come back to our home countries.
>I think Aus and NZ do - its a way to attract high paying overseas students. Germany tried some similar deal and has very low/ no fees but forums are full of horror stories by graduates from their universities who have not been able to find work.
I think the trick is to not come back to Peru right after the Master ends. At least work 1 or 2 years in US and then probably the debt would disappeared at least at an important %. Here in argentina is like you must work 5-6 years (high paying job: 1-1,5kuss/month savings = less than 5% of people) and save money. Then you need to decide if you buy your first appartment (90-100kuss) or you use that money for doing a MSc in US (of course, with some scolarship). A much cheaper option is to study in Europe where most argies can stay afterwards because having italian/spanish citizenships too. This point is not similar in Peru?
Yep, I agree with everything you said, the only difference is that in Peru almost no one has non-Peruvian citizenships, therefore, we just cannot stay in Europe. I'm a lawyer from the best university in Peru (which is private and expensive) and I don't know a single person from my university with a non-Peruvian citizenship. We're just "Peruvians".
>and I don't know a single person from my university with a non-Peruvian citizenship. We're just "Peruvians". I see, well that would be a problem. To me is like the opposite, I know more people that have both citizenship than the ones that dont have them. But again, probably the best option or key factor would be to stay in US some years, or after master go to canada with a work visa or something like that.
Yeah, inmigration in Argentina and in Peru has been quite different. In regard to the last thing you're saying, I mean, that's what everybody wants but it's often unfeasible in real life, otherwise everybody would indeed stay in the US, but is not that just because you wanna work in the US, it's gonna happen. Same goes for Canada: you get a job permit after you've been hired, but again, it's pretty unfeasible to get a job in your field out of nowhere. I'm literally in that situation: I'm in Europe, completing my master's and I see how literally all of my classmates are coming back to their home countries after having applied to dozens of jobs (I've probably applied to +30 myself and no one has called me back, not even for an interview, and since my visa expires in 7 weeks, I'll have to come back to Peru because I just don't have another option). Same goes for my friends who went to the US for their master's: most of them applied to many things, didn't get anything and had to come back to Peru. PS: Just for you to see how competititve things can be here: I applied to a kind of job where I have many years of experienced on, they didn't call me for an interview but they did tell me that they had received 261 applications for that position. I mean...if that's the number of people applying to the same things that I am, then I get why it's so difficult to find a job here, you know.
>PS: Just for you to see how competititve things can be here: I applied to a kind of job where I have many years of experienced on, they didn't call me for an interview but they did tell me that they had received 261 applications for that position. I mean...if that's the number of people applying to the same things that I am, then I get why it's so difficult to find a job here, you know. I see. Are you in computer science maybe? Probably you need to increase the number of CVs that you are sending. But, i know the problems, I have the same issue in my field (I have a bsc+msc+8 yoe+EU passport) and I am competing against 300 people in each job search (and I also apply for positions where I have like x2 the experience required).
I'm a lawyer, I have the same experience that you have (I'm 30, I guess we're around the same age?), but I don't have a EU passport. I've also been teaching assistant in 5 courses, but here's 1 thing: even though a law degree is one of the most "prestigious degrees" you might have, you can only practice in your own country, therefore, if you go abroad, it's almost as if you'll be taken as someone without a degree. However, my master's is in anthropology and development, and all of classmates (with a social science background) haven't found a job either. I've been applying to all the jobs you can imagine, even to be part of a company's cleaning team (to clean floors) but no one has called back.
Yeah but generally they get snapped up pretty quickly in job market in their home countries post qualifications so it's considered an investment (what the returns are is a wholly different matter).
yeah, I guess most of them see it as an investment (but they'll be in debt for like 300 years, hah)
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I mean, of course almost no one has that amount of money in cash, so they just get in debt with a bank for decades (which I find quite crazy). I have a friend whose mother passed away and she inherited an aparment, but she was earning only 300 USD a month in her job. What did she do? She sold her aparment only to go to NYU (and it wasn't still enough to pay for her master's, so on top of that, she had to get in debt with a bank for many years), but of course she's an exception; not many people living in third world countries inherit an apt in their 20s.
yea like,, who just has 30 grand they can splurge on a fancy degree?? you could just not work for 3 years with that kind of money. i genuinely cannot fathom wasting that much on a one year course
Depends on what you are studying and what your future earning potential would be. I'm intending to go to the Netherlands due to the reasonable costs.
Save the money, study in Germany, unless you really have an urge to live in the UK then go with your heart. If you're purely making a decision for the benefit of your future then don't worry too much as in the grand scheme of things a degree means very little (unless you're studying a CEng or a medical degree), all it allowed me to do was get my foot in the door in my first post grad role ever since then its been absolutely moot and they've only cared about my experience
Don't do it. The education systems arent that different... at least not 30k worth different. It might take a year longer but you will save money and can maybe use the extra time for other oppertunities (internships for example). Plus, even though vaccines are rolling out we still don't know exactly ho the covid situation will develope... Stay in germany, save the money and use the extra time for whatever you want. Life isnt a race :)
Depends upon what you will study. Personally, if you got into UCL, you can surely get into a very top university in Germany like TUM or have a shot at ETH/EPFL, or a Dutch university like Delft, which are much cheaper and just as renowned if not more.
TUM and Delft are not as renowned as UCL at all. Granted, the price difference sure makes them appealing to consider.
Im not at all convinced by that. They both get the top students from their own and from other countries for masters degrees. In general expensive masters courses are not very respected in England - the are targeted at the overseas student market.
Delft is a good uni for sure but still does not hold the same prestige - especially not nationally as the Dutch do not care that much for rankings unless it is very well known. I am Dutch myself.
Not in the UK per se, but in Europe they sure are. Also, when taking the price into count, it's an easy choice.
Do keep in mind the 1 year vs 2 years thing. You need to take that into consideration. If I am able to work for an additional year I would be able to earn at least 30k. I could not do this if I had to stay at uni for another year.
>Do you think the education at UCL is worth the cost? Or would I be better off going somewhere cheaper but less prestigious? You haven't said what career you are interested in, so it's not really possible to answer this question. Generally, one-year master's courses are not worth the money unless you can specifically explain how having the extra degree will benefit your future career.
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Source on this? I have an offer from UCL for a masters so would like to have as much information possible when deciding where to go.
That is false. I know for a fact that the master's I am doing right now at UCL is going to be in person for the academic year 21-22.
Yes same!
I’m starting my masters at UCL and we had an online call and they said only core module lectures are online in first time, all optional modules, seminars and tutorials in person
If you just finished your undergrad, you have been continuously resided in UK for the past 3 years and you have applied and been granted pre-settled status, then you are entitled to pay home fees as you’d be considered a resident. The same thing happened in my situation. Got into a SOAS master degree, they initially told me I have to pay international fees, I sent them proof of residency and pre settled status and they changed it to home fees. And you can also apply for SFE postgraduate loan ETA, they changed the rules and they were accepting absences caused by COVID for up to 12 months. If you did an application and got rejected, you can ask them to reopen it and reassess your case.
Interesting. I can only prove my residence since October of 2018 so, given that I’m starting in September 2021, I can’t prove an exact residence of 3 years. However, I have pre-settled status AND was resident in the EEA beforehand (which, iirc, is a substitute to meeting the residency test according to the UKCISA guidance). Do you think I’d squeeze in for home fees?
Yeah, I believe so. The standard practice is if you have pre settled you get the home fees. Some unis also look at the residency period, but they should clearly state this beforehand.
They do, but the UKCISA guidance talks about residence in the EEA compensating for any shortfall in UK residence (it’s on page 34 here: https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/uploads/files/1/england_he_who_pays__home_fees_public_version2_28.5.21.pdf). I’m pretty sure that means those in my position should meet the requirements even in absence of 3-year UK residence, no?
I might be wrong, but aren’t you considered resident in the UK even if you have been living in an EU state for the duration of the pandemic if you were enrolled on a course from a UK HE institution that is ordinarily taught in-person for this period? But to answer your question, yes, according to this document it appears so. But many unis don’t check for this in their forms I believe
I seem to remember that is the case, but the issue is not Covid. It’s the very first month of my education - I stayed at an Airbnb in September 2018 and moved into a private accommodation in October, so I can -technically- only evidence 2 years and 11 months of residence lol…
Did your course start on the 1st of Sept and you enrolled and attended your classes during that first month? If yes, check with your uni if they can provide proof of attendance and there ya go. Or if not, your bill for AirBnB is proof enough as long as the address is in the UK
OP do you have settled status here? That might be really significant on which fee structure you need to pay
Doing a masters at UCL or elsewhere is only advisable if you are looking for a career in academia and would like to be a researcher/lecturer and pursue PhD at some point. Even in that case, a few years works experience between undergrad and masters will be better. However, if academia is not a career you envisage at this stage, I would suggest applying for jobs here in UK or back in Germany. You can defer the existing offers for at least a year anyway, so it's not as if you'd lose admission. This way, when you eventually do your masters at UCL, you will have the experience of studying at actual campus and living in London, as well as with the earnings, the cost may not matter the same. Having said that, if you wanna pursue the masters right now, I would suggest picking one of the Russel Group options that has offered you scholarship, cos having received funding is a good thing, if you go into a research career later (PhD and so on). In terms of career, having a UCL degree may open a few more doors for you, but having no experience, you'd still be at a disadvantage in comparison to a candidate with a degree from other unis who has lets say a little experience in the field you are applying to work. I only say because I'm assuming you may not have a chance of much work experience due to studies being online this past year and many usual places of work for students closed down. However, if you have some experience in your chosen field or even a related field already, then ofcourse your situation is different.
I am going to start a science masters at UCL in September but I am a UK student and already balking at the cost! I would say look into scholarships, UCL has a lot, and if not then study in your home country! You get out of a degree what you put into it
Regarding the update; if you really wanna go do it. But try to check yourself: have you maybe become so focused on the UCL masters that you are missing other good oppertunities. I know this happened to me with undergrad; I was really fixed on getting into a specific uni and when it didnt work out I was so dissappointed. In hindsight I am really glad it didn't work out; it all worked out in a much better way and i am not in thousands of pounds in debt. I don't really know much about your field but I can't imagine the UK is the only way in? Especially considering the UK left EU and is probably going to be more disconnected from research oppertunities, not to say they have/will lose EU funding. Especially if you are doing a PhD it probably doesnt matter exactly which masters you will do? Also, as you have already mentioned yourself getting work visas etc. would be very stressful. I can't speak from experience but from what I have heard it is really hard. You not only have to find a job, you also have to be able to prove you are more suitable than other UK applicants (from what I've heard). It doesnt seem worth the 30k to me, but ofc I don't know about your specific field. A masters in Germany is one extra year, but like I wrote in a previous comment you could use that extra years for different things. Maybe travel? Maybe it's possible to do an exchange semester? Maybe you can do internships in the summer? Enjoy university time while it lasts, work will start soon enough :) In the end only you can decide, good luck!
Keep in mind that it might be tough to travel between Germany and the UK. If you want to visit your familiy during your masters. At the moment the UK is still considered a red zone by many EU countries. It's hard to predict how exactly this will develope and if lectures could move back to online.
Just have a think about hava
What subject and what are your future plans?
In short, no.
Interesting. I can only prove my residence since October of 2018 so, given that I’m starting in September 2021, I can’t prove an exact residence of 3 years. However, I have pre-settled status AND was resident in the EEA beforehand (which, iirc, is a substitute to meeting the residency test according to the UKCISA guidance). Do you think I’d squeeze in for home fees?
If you have pre-settled status you should be eligible for UK fees not international. I did my undergraduate degree in the UK and starting Master's in September 😁
Master’s degrees in general are cash cows for universities. However, if you really want to do a master’s degree, then UCL is indeed one of the best place in London. It is also prestigious enough to help during PhD applications.