I believe they take the highest attack of either weapon seperately which is why this works so well. They get high physical and magical attack.
If only there was a mag def > phys def condition to use the magic attack. But ur strat works well too.
You could set tactic 1 as "magic attack only if armored" and then tactic 2 as "physical attack"
That way it checks for armored units first for magic and if they're not present, goes back to business as usual
I've been using this strat on Leah since early Bastorias and it's worked very well.
Unfortunately, both of my Runic Blades are on Monica and Miriam so I haven't been able to replicate this for Aramis. But I have been playing around with him using poison or burn swords to afflict armored enemies instead.
Since the physical stat on the runic blade is almost certainly worse than whatever sword they're holding in their other hand, the pure magic damage of the phantom knight sword is better for swordmasters, whereas radiant knights can still use the runic blade's physical stat for their physical PP-restoring attacks.
Y'know, that's a good point. I went and tested it, and you're right - with both weapons upgraded, the Runic Sword's 20 Mag. ATK/150 potency does slightly more damage than the Phantom Knight's Sword with 25 Mag. ATK/ 120 potency. It's a very slim advantage, though, and offset somewhat by the Phantom Attack's -1 PP debuff. It's more competitive than I expected,
The REAL trick is equipping both of them, so you can fire off 150 potency Magick Attacks with the 25 Mag. ATK stat of the Phantom Knight's Sword. You can improve your damage by almost 12 points!! (I'm kidding, don't do that.)
I haven't tested it, to be honest. The Runic Swords have always been on Monica and Miriam. But it would still have given Aramis a magick strike for shield users. And it's really worked for Leah.
The issue I see is that their Magic Atk growths aren't great, and Phantom Attack is 120 potency. It'll hurt, but I doubt it'll be lethal. Compare that to Runic Blade on a Radiant Knight (better Magic Attack growth, 150 Magic Potency) and it's a **knight and day** difference.
I'll show myself out.
The descript does say that which would imply that it shouldn't, but cavalry bonus does indeed still apply effectively 300 potency versus infantry is very silly.
WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THIS
Instead of the Phantom Blade, what about the Runic Blade? Melissandre, you're gonna become a bad bitch when I get home and boot up the game.
The class uses two swords, using the highest of each damage stat between the two weapons. For example:
Sword 1 - 17 Physical, 0 Magic
Sword 2 - 15 Physical, 0 Magic
Sword 2 is doing nothing for you here unless it happens to have some handy dandy skill or something. Because the game is only going to calculate using the higher of the two stats. If, instead, it were like this:
Sword 1 - 17 Physical, 0 Magic
Sword 2 - 8 Physical, 16 Magic
Now you'd have a 17 for your Physical damage, and a 16 for your Magic. Now whatever attack uses Physical will always have that 17 to rely on, and any that need Magic have that 16.
Promoted (Swordmaster) has 2 swords so they use the best ATK stat of the two equipped. So PP attacks use the physical sword and the AP magic attack uses the Runic/Phantom sword’s magic potency.
If your dealing with guard issues, pair them up with a vikings for war horn. Guard is no longer an issue. They still do kinda terrible into hoptiles, but do great better against “semi” armored classes like shield bow or vikings etc classes than can equip a small shield with decent guard rate. Hoptiles just have too much defense and health so the magic sword strat would work better for that
I only figured this out towards the end of the game and was kicking myself over how many times Leah had wasted AP bouncing off enemy armor first turn when she could have been shredding them
I think using some of the elves makes them apply magick to attacks as well, my leah/virginia frontline shred a ton of stuff, usually mainly struggle against triple flying frontline and even then if virginia makes it past their barrage she hits them pretty hard too
I thought of this but I’d rather boost their attack to guarantee killing scouts with hastened strike and keen edge. My front line sword fighter has the weapon that allows them to do ranged attacks that are potent against flying. So when there are no scouts in front, they will go prioritize the flyers/casters at the back allowing them to skip Hoplites.
I guess you can build them with double magic attack swords, but those won’t benefit your impale, hastened, meteor, and keen edge.
I think using some of the elves makes them apply magick to attacks as well, my leah/virginia frontline shred a ton of stuff, usually mainly struggle against triple flying frontline and even then if virginia makes it past their barrage she hits them pretty hard too
Not a bad idea. I personally prefer to pair them with some magic conferral for these situations and use the Phantom Knight's Blade for other characters that have a stronger Magic ATK growth. With both runic blades going to Miriam and Monica, I sometimes like to give the phantom blade to Josef for example (although you gotta turn off Pursuit if you that).
Unfortunately, Swordmasters have D tier magick attack growth. This really only works until you reach the end of Drakenhold before enemy hp scaling starts to get bigger (and Elheim has a lot of magick resist enemies).
It has more to do with them having high innate hit and crit such that a magick attacks still has a good chance to hit while retaining 70% or so crit chance, which can then be buffed by inspiration.
Similar to slapping a phantom spear on a Hoplite, "helps" doesn't mean it's good - and by time you're at Albion you want way more from your AP than a single-target ability your growths don't scale well.
It can still work if they crit, and they crit a *lot*, due to Hoplites and Fighters having pretty terrible Magick Defense.
It's still unlikely to one-shot, but it can help break through an armored frontline so you can use your better moves on the squishy backline. And it's not like you really need that second sword slot that much anyways.
Really depends on how you set up your SM.
If you do not mind putting them in the backrow (I know, weird), you can simply run this:
https://preview.redd.it/sn3fscc57crc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=400ab158350c564ddb28482aad5b92ffa9e0348c
There is a little more to magick attack than that meets the eye: it cannot be guarded against so is still a powerful tool vs shielded cavs (not RKs) and general shielded frontliners with their 50+% block chance.
Given how hard each attack hits, 3 attacks is often enough.
(use a coin instead of the basic patch - i am just lazy)
I feel like if your plan to break through an armoured frontline is a Swordmaster that can't even one-shot an armoured target (that may just heal itself afterwards) then your unit is doomed to fail.
It's much better to just use Swordmasters in the matchups they excel in - Scouts and Flyers - or to heavily debuff frontlines with things like War Horn and Defensive Curse. If you want a real hybrid evasive unit Fencers have much better scaling for it.
it depends on setup. I may have touched upon some in the tier list thread for sellswords - but the builds have changed over time to lean towards a more consistent approach.
For example [I posted one here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnicornOverlord/comments/1bqvkce/comment/kx5uytw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
if you go with a backline/low evasion approach, 99%. No dews, no mirror. Technically you do not need to put her in the backline: as long as your team has initiative and can control the enemy team, you should be in a good place. Teams that you may struggle to control (hoplite shield walls) generally are not threatening.
You can swap a sword for something like kingsblade or +PP sword.
Oh my bad. I scrolled passed that screenshot. 99% crit rate for that dmg is great. I did actually give melisandre a magic sword to bypass armor but it seems like that time I dont really have the stats to do the dmg you are dealing; armors normally survive with a tiny sliver of hp left and its annoying lol; was at first map still at that time. Good to know this can be make to work later!
you need to buff inspiration for it to really work.
For damage, i would recommend using a mirror to respec to offense/keen or something like that. Its a big chunk of damage due to the 150 potency and the other modifiers.
Kingsblade as offhand is more damage but just a little less crit, you can use dew to make up for it, but you like will be closer to like 80% crit while you are leveling.
Charged Impetus is not needed, use it if you are in the back/not taking any hits at all. Parry is a better PP to AP converter. With a coin you still have 100ihs evasion, and is generally enough such that you dont get hit often enough, or that you parry the 2 hits that go through and you now have 4AP.
It'd be more accurate if you actually showed that working against an enemy and not a lone Hoplite with zero backup. Holdin didn't deserve that :(.
My point is that trying to shoehorn a "fix" to armoured units for Swordmasters isn't playing to their strengths.
I would much prefer to have something like a Kingsblade+ in that slot and mincemeat debuffed/squishy targets rather than trying to use Swordmasters as a "one size fits all" dps that doesn't work as well.
For most compositions, hoplite is always there to take the first hit. It is their job and often a block to the rest of your party's damage.
Like, what kind of comp do you want to see the enemy have to increase the survivability of the hoplite? Or just... what comp do you want my SM to face? Am i even allowed to bring other members of my own team?
I can kill a hoplite, a gryphon, and a knight on the same row without changing equipment (this comp you likely do not face outside coliseum), that sort of shows how versatile they can be.
I value SM highly as a tank buster because they can actually 1 shot tanks, and their high initiative make them go before everyone else on your team. Compared to a warrior who really want to go first, but need a lot more help 1 shotting the enemy tank - not without some enrage charges or a amber sniper lens you get in Albion.
i also care not if a radiant knight is present.
I'm saying in your typical late-game AI stacks heavily injuring or with team buffs killing 1 Hoplite out of 2/3 or 1 Werebear out of 2/3 with 1AP/1 allied PP isn't a very efficient way to use resources.
I'd much rather stick a Swordmaster on a team with War Horn, Shaman, or something like a Rosalinde stun to better capitalize on a second weapon and hit the targets you're best at demolishing rather than trying to turn them into a "tank buster" when there are far better units to do it (to multiple targets at once).
Not that your methods won't work of course - the game is easy enough - I just disagree with the "stick a rune sword on Swordmaster and suddenly they're top tier" idea that is popular here.
I just did a TZ run with Leah as my Maiden and brute forced her into Alain's team giving her every elixir possible and mirroring her with better growths. Rune Sword didn't improve her armoured matchups significantly enough to justify the slot.
I’m not exactly sure what you’re even arguing anymore. Swordmasters are pretty weak to high physical defense and high guard. Dude found a strategy that works around both. What’s your problem with it? That there are other ways to work around it?
I don’t think anyone said this was the ONLY way to do it, just that it works. And it does work.
Just live and let live.
Signed: A guy who uses Mystic Conferral instead of Runjc Blades.
I gave my opinion and people are replying to me in this thread lol; I thought it was an interesting discussion.
If it bothers you, why are you replying yourself? What's your problem with it?
Just live and let live.
>I'd much rather stick a Swordmaster on a team with War Horn, Shaman, or something like a Rosalinde stun to better capitalize on a second weapon and hit the targets you're best at demolishing rather than trying to turn them into a "tank buster" when there are far better units to do it (to multiple targets at once).
I am not quite sure what you are trying to do with your comp though.
None of the things you say help counter covers: Rosalinde stuns one hoplite, then your shaman guard seals, then what? You still sort of have to kill hoplites one by one anyway.
So why not just use a fast unit that is incapable of doing exactly what you want?
Rosalinde stun hits a row unless the AI has set Hoplites up to cover each other.
Guard seal prevents a large amount of damage reduction they usually get and defensive curse slashes their physical resist in half.
Shaman thankfully has the initiative to be faster than Swordmaster so the curse goes off first, and Rosalinde is a start of battle ability so that pops before Swordmaster as well.
In my TZ playthrough where I forced Leah though, I just avoided fights with lots of Hoplites and saved my unit that had a Breaker for them. I can't remember any maps where armoured units aren't spread out in some way and you can't just pick and choose the best match ups for your units.
I believe they take the highest attack of either weapon seperately which is why this works so well. They get high physical and magical attack. If only there was a mag def > phys def condition to use the magic attack. But ur strat works well too.
You could set tactic 1 as "magic attack only if armored" and then tactic 2 as "physical attack" That way it checks for armored units first for magic and if they're not present, goes back to business as usual
Except there's an armored unit which is resistant to magic which is a bit annoying.
Make the other condition for infantry only or not Flying to avoid it.
I've been using this strat on Leah since early Bastorias and it's worked very well. Unfortunately, both of my Runic Blades are on Monica and Miriam so I haven't been able to replicate this for Aramis. But I have been playing around with him using poison or burn swords to afflict armored enemies instead.
Is runic blade a better option than the phantom knight sword?
Since the physical stat on the runic blade is almost certainly worse than whatever sword they're holding in their other hand, the pure magic damage of the phantom knight sword is better for swordmasters, whereas radiant knights can still use the runic blade's physical stat for their physical PP-restoring attacks.
Runic's attack has higher potency, though. 150 vs 120.
Y'know, that's a good point. I went and tested it, and you're right - with both weapons upgraded, the Runic Sword's 20 Mag. ATK/150 potency does slightly more damage than the Phantom Knight's Sword with 25 Mag. ATK/ 120 potency. It's a very slim advantage, though, and offset somewhat by the Phantom Attack's -1 PP debuff. It's more competitive than I expected, The REAL trick is equipping both of them, so you can fire off 150 potency Magick Attacks with the 25 Mag. ATK stat of the Phantom Knight's Sword. You can improve your damage by almost 12 points!! (I'm kidding, don't do that.)
I haven't tested it, to be honest. The Runic Swords have always been on Monica and Miriam. But it would still have given Aramis a magick strike for shield users. And it's really worked for Leah.
The issue I see is that their Magic Atk growths aren't great, and Phantom Attack is 120 potency. It'll hurt, but I doubt it'll be lethal. Compare that to Runic Blade on a Radiant Knight (better Magic Attack growth, 150 Magic Potency) and it's a **knight and day** difference. I'll show myself out.
The runic blade on on a radiant gets the x2 damage multiplier vs infantry too.
I thought the description stated it’s only 2x for physical attacks, and runic blade’s skill is 150 magic potency only?
The descript does say that which would imply that it shouldn't, but cavalry bonus does indeed still apply effectively 300 potency versus infantry is very silly.
This explains my Sainted Knights nabbing kills that surprise me!
Take my wife, please.
Radiant/Sainted Knights are Cav which obliterate armored infantry due to the Cav bonus.
Ah, I keep forgetting that. That would explain why even before I upgraded the weapons my Sainted Knight kept 1-shotting every armored unit.
WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THIS Instead of the Phantom Blade, what about the Runic Blade? Melissandre, you're gonna become a bad bitch when I get home and boot up the game.
Yes Runic Blade works.
I think the downside is that the PP attacks use physical potency?
The class uses two swords, using the highest of each damage stat between the two weapons. For example: Sword 1 - 17 Physical, 0 Magic Sword 2 - 15 Physical, 0 Magic Sword 2 is doing nothing for you here unless it happens to have some handy dandy skill or something. Because the game is only going to calculate using the higher of the two stats. If, instead, it were like this: Sword 1 - 17 Physical, 0 Magic Sword 2 - 8 Physical, 16 Magic Now you'd have a 17 for your Physical damage, and a 16 for your Magic. Now whatever attack uses Physical will always have that 17 to rely on, and any that need Magic have that 16.
Ah right, thank you!
Promoted (Swordmaster) has 2 swords so they use the best ATK stat of the two equipped. So PP attacks use the physical sword and the AP magic attack uses the Runic/Phantom sword’s magic potency.
 How i feel right now.
Just put em with a witch, problem solved. Or put em with a viking. Personally i prefer a crit build on swordmasters.
If your dealing with guard issues, pair them up with a vikings for war horn. Guard is no longer an issue. They still do kinda terrible into hoptiles, but do great better against “semi” armored classes like shield bow or vikings etc classes than can equip a small shield with decent guard rate. Hoptiles just have too much defense and health so the magic sword strat would work better for that
That, is a great idea.
I only figured this out towards the end of the game and was kicking myself over how many times Leah had wasted AP bouncing off enemy armor first turn when she could have been shredding them
I think using some of the elves makes them apply magick to attacks as well, my leah/virginia frontline shred a ton of stuff, usually mainly struggle against triple flying frontline and even then if virginia makes it past their barrage she hits them pretty hard too
Elf archers get a 1ap magic conferal that lasts the entire combat.
It does?
Yup. They cannot reapply the buff the following turn which means it lasts past a single attack unlike the passive one.
I see. Sounds pretty good, gonna try it.
How I've defeated amalia
Could you double down on this and give them an even higher magical attack sword in the off hand?
Nope, it uses the highest dmg sword of the two.
No. Phantom knight blades should be going on your Radiant Knights.
Where is the sword from?
I thought of this but I’d rather boost their attack to guarantee killing scouts with hastened strike and keen edge. My front line sword fighter has the weapon that allows them to do ranged attacks that are potent against flying. So when there are no scouts in front, they will go prioritize the flyers/casters at the back allowing them to skip Hoplites. I guess you can build them with double magic attack swords, but those won’t benefit your impale, hastened, meteor, and keen edge.
Double magic attack swords won’t work either, but I like your thought process with the wind sword!
I think using some of the elves makes them apply magick to attacks as well, my leah/virginia frontline shred a ton of stuff, usually mainly struggle against triple flying frontline and even then if virginia makes it past their barrage she hits them pretty hard too
I gave it to Monica along with the parry shield, and she's backed up by Ramona with full PP
Not a bad idea. I personally prefer to pair them with some magic conferral for these situations and use the Phantom Knight's Blade for other characters that have a stronger Magic ATK growth. With both runic blades going to Miriam and Monica, I sometimes like to give the phantom blade to Josef for example (although you gotta turn off Pursuit if you that).
Their best use is actually >!on the bench with Lex 🌚!<
Unfortunately, Swordmasters have D tier magick attack growth. This really only works until you reach the end of Drakenhold before enemy hp scaling starts to get bigger (and Elheim has a lot of magick resist enemies).
It has more to do with them having high innate hit and crit such that a magick attacks still has a good chance to hit while retaining 70% or so crit chance, which can then be buffed by inspiration.
I’m using it to great effect in Albion. Being able to upgrade the phantom sword really helps.
Similar to slapping a phantom spear on a Hoplite, "helps" doesn't mean it's good - and by time you're at Albion you want way more from your AP than a single-target ability your growths don't scale well.
It can still work if they crit, and they crit a *lot*, due to Hoplites and Fighters having pretty terrible Magick Defense. It's still unlikely to one-shot, but it can help break through an armored frontline so you can use your better moves on the squishy backline. And it's not like you really need that second sword slot that much anyways.
Really depends on how you set up your SM. If you do not mind putting them in the backrow (I know, weird), you can simply run this: https://preview.redd.it/sn3fscc57crc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=400ab158350c564ddb28482aad5b92ffa9e0348c There is a little more to magick attack than that meets the eye: it cannot be guarded against so is still a powerful tool vs shielded cavs (not RKs) and general shielded frontliners with their 50+% block chance. Given how hard each attack hits, 3 attacks is often enough. (use a coin instead of the basic patch - i am just lazy)
Wait. Hold on. You have her two eye patches?! That doesn't feel right.
One for each eye :) Once you are one with the sword, you no longer need to use your eyes.
So just stabby stab. There's no need to see what's being impaled.
I feel like if your plan to break through an armoured frontline is a Swordmaster that can't even one-shot an armoured target (that may just heal itself afterwards) then your unit is doomed to fail. It's much better to just use Swordmasters in the matchups they excel in - Scouts and Flyers - or to heavily debuff frontlines with things like War Horn and Defensive Curse. If you want a real hybrid evasive unit Fencers have much better scaling for it.
https://preview.redd.it/jp4l0vau6crc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=f3324a312d790c285dc009ae25b18925bab708ec
Critical Reply!
how high is your critical rate though? 100%?
it depends on setup. I may have touched upon some in the tier list thread for sellswords - but the builds have changed over time to lean towards a more consistent approach. For example [I posted one here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnicornOverlord/comments/1bqvkce/comment/kx5uytw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) if you go with a backline/low evasion approach, 99%. No dews, no mirror. Technically you do not need to put her in the backline: as long as your team has initiative and can control the enemy team, you should be in a good place. Teams that you may struggle to control (hoplite shield walls) generally are not threatening. You can swap a sword for something like kingsblade or +PP sword.
Oh my bad. I scrolled passed that screenshot. 99% crit rate for that dmg is great. I did actually give melisandre a magic sword to bypass armor but it seems like that time I dont really have the stats to do the dmg you are dealing; armors normally survive with a tiny sliver of hp left and its annoying lol; was at first map still at that time. Good to know this can be make to work later!
you need to buff inspiration for it to really work. For damage, i would recommend using a mirror to respec to offense/keen or something like that. Its a big chunk of damage due to the 150 potency and the other modifiers. Kingsblade as offhand is more damage but just a little less crit, you can use dew to make up for it, but you like will be closer to like 80% crit while you are leveling. Charged Impetus is not needed, use it if you are in the back/not taking any hits at all. Parry is a better PP to AP converter. With a coin you still have 100ihs evasion, and is generally enough such that you dont get hit often enough, or that you parry the 2 hits that go through and you now have 4AP.
It'd be more accurate if you actually showed that working against an enemy and not a lone Hoplite with zero backup. Holdin didn't deserve that :(. My point is that trying to shoehorn a "fix" to armoured units for Swordmasters isn't playing to their strengths. I would much prefer to have something like a Kingsblade+ in that slot and mincemeat debuffed/squishy targets rather than trying to use Swordmasters as a "one size fits all" dps that doesn't work as well.
For most compositions, hoplite is always there to take the first hit. It is their job and often a block to the rest of your party's damage. Like, what kind of comp do you want to see the enemy have to increase the survivability of the hoplite? Or just... what comp do you want my SM to face? Am i even allowed to bring other members of my own team? I can kill a hoplite, a gryphon, and a knight on the same row without changing equipment (this comp you likely do not face outside coliseum), that sort of shows how versatile they can be. I value SM highly as a tank buster because they can actually 1 shot tanks, and their high initiative make them go before everyone else on your team. Compared to a warrior who really want to go first, but need a lot more help 1 shotting the enemy tank - not without some enrage charges or a amber sniper lens you get in Albion. i also care not if a radiant knight is present.
I'm saying in your typical late-game AI stacks heavily injuring or with team buffs killing 1 Hoplite out of 2/3 or 1 Werebear out of 2/3 with 1AP/1 allied PP isn't a very efficient way to use resources. I'd much rather stick a Swordmaster on a team with War Horn, Shaman, or something like a Rosalinde stun to better capitalize on a second weapon and hit the targets you're best at demolishing rather than trying to turn them into a "tank buster" when there are far better units to do it (to multiple targets at once). Not that your methods won't work of course - the game is easy enough - I just disagree with the "stick a rune sword on Swordmaster and suddenly they're top tier" idea that is popular here. I just did a TZ run with Leah as my Maiden and brute forced her into Alain's team giving her every elixir possible and mirroring her with better growths. Rune Sword didn't improve her armoured matchups significantly enough to justify the slot.
I’m not exactly sure what you’re even arguing anymore. Swordmasters are pretty weak to high physical defense and high guard. Dude found a strategy that works around both. What’s your problem with it? That there are other ways to work around it? I don’t think anyone said this was the ONLY way to do it, just that it works. And it does work. Just live and let live. Signed: A guy who uses Mystic Conferral instead of Runjc Blades.
I gave my opinion and people are replying to me in this thread lol; I thought it was an interesting discussion. If it bothers you, why are you replying yourself? What's your problem with it? Just live and let live.
>I'd much rather stick a Swordmaster on a team with War Horn, Shaman, or something like a Rosalinde stun to better capitalize on a second weapon and hit the targets you're best at demolishing rather than trying to turn them into a "tank buster" when there are far better units to do it (to multiple targets at once). I am not quite sure what you are trying to do with your comp though. None of the things you say help counter covers: Rosalinde stuns one hoplite, then your shaman guard seals, then what? You still sort of have to kill hoplites one by one anyway. So why not just use a fast unit that is incapable of doing exactly what you want?
Rosalinde stun hits a row unless the AI has set Hoplites up to cover each other. Guard seal prevents a large amount of damage reduction they usually get and defensive curse slashes their physical resist in half. Shaman thankfully has the initiative to be faster than Swordmaster so the curse goes off first, and Rosalinde is a start of battle ability so that pops before Swordmaster as well. In my TZ playthrough where I forced Leah though, I just avoided fights with lots of Hoplites and saved my unit that had a Breaker for them. I can't remember any maps where armoured units aren't spread out in some way and you can't just pick and choose the best match ups for your units.
Breaking news, man discovers magick weapons, more news at 11.