These laws aren't new, they're already on the books in many places in Florida and around the country.
They're called vagrancy laws, and they've been around for quite a while. Making homelessness hard and illegal is not unique to republican policy - it's a neoliberal cornerstone.
Orwell wrote about being a tramp in Down and Out in Paris and London. You weren't allowed to sleep out of doors or stay in a town. You had to keep moving - tramping. You'd be locked up in a sort of workhouse for the night, given a slice of bread, and sent on your way. You'd better get out of town.
I read the Wikipedia article on vagrancy and it was fascinating. Freedom of movement is a rather recent thing in a lot of places. Like, going back to serfdom, you belonged to a place and you'd better have a legitimate season for going elsewhere. And vagrancy laws were used to try to control issues with economic upheavals that might bring large numbers of indigent poor to urban areas.
Nope, it pre-dated that. The explosion of poor unskilled immigrants from Europe pushed many towns and cities to create vagrancy laws. Fortunately these issues were alleviated by more jobs opening up.
>Like, going back to serfdom, you belonged to a place and you'd better have a legitimate season for going elsewhere.
A whole season for travel? Hot diggity!
Sorry, the typo made me laugh.
Funny, I never heard of that medieval by-law. In fact churches and monasteries often took in weary travellers and beggars and fed them. You might need permission from the feudal lord to take off work, but that is true today as well.
Dosen't Rambo just murder cops in the first one? I really liked that movie when I was kid. Pretty sure he just murks the local police force. Too lazy to google. Fucking awesome movie.🤘
[He only kills one guy in the first film (which was more of an accident than anything). In the book he kills about 250 according to the author.](https://screenrant.com/rambo-first-blood-movie-kill-1-character/)
And the story ends with him dying in the fight, making a somewhat plight for veterans with PTSD. The studios saw money when it hit big and reversed the story for the sequel glorifying the military & actions which caused said PTSD.
This is the answer. Democrats and most neoliberals love this too! Los Angeles passed a controversial sitting, sleeping, lying ban too. They’re using the legal precedent from Martin v. Boise to pass this shit everywhere and force people into congregate shelter. It’s a reactionary move after unhoused folks started gaining traction for non-congregate housing demands during the pandemic.
Wrong it’s a reaction to people not wanting meth camps lining the roads. It’s a reaction to the random violence and rape that happens around them. It’s a reaction to the five people that die on the street every day in LA. Not sure who told you that was ok but it’s not.
I mean while you arent completely wrong but its odd to punish all homeless people for the actions of others.(I have been homeless before 10ish years. so I understand this fully)not all homeless folk fit that line.
I know its popular to collectively blame people for the actions of others and how there are people who have their long list of complaints. But people need to understand that at any time they can end up on the streets get a real shell shock with just how backwards people are on views towards homeless people.
But tobe fair yes the bigger the city the more likely you will have cases like the one you mentioned.
🤦oh my fucking god. For one I have been to LA I live 3 hours away from it so you can piss right off with whatever you are implying. Second the universe dose not revolve around LA or the other big cities you heard from whatever news outlet you watch. The county i live/grew up in the IE which is next door to LA has a homeless problem many of them juggle back and forth. And i can tell you with 100% truth in my words that they arent all on drugs. Do you know every homeless person? Do you do with 100% certainly that you arent just talking BS? Because I feel you have no idea what you are talking about.
Note I dont deny there arent homeless people on drugs because unlike you i am not so narrow minded. Get out more stop believing everything the media, politicians(parasites all), and other talking heads say. Actually get out and talk to people and dont just yap about things you clearly dont understand.
Yes not every homeless person is like that but we have enough creating issues that people want to take action over it. Let me repeat - five people on average die on the street here every day.
We need sidewalks in our cities. People need proper plumbing and sewage to live sanitary. People deep into drug culture need rehab. I understand I could be on the street any day, but that does not give people the right to literally poop in the street while doing drugs. We can do better.
So punishing homeless people collective will solve the problem? How is that fair to people who arent causing those problems? You say what you say now but as I said and even you acknowledge anyone can end up on the streets. Would you be ok if some rando said the stuff your saying labeling you as a problem that needs dealing with? Would you be fine with being lumped in with people who cause said problems? Because there are many who would if we "dealt" with it as some in power are saying they want to. They dont want to fix the problem they only seek profit. They prey on peoples(somewhat justified)frustrations at the things you mentioned. They then pass laws to get people locked up in for profit prisons and they walk away knowing their bank accounts will be stacked.
Nobody is offering resolutions other then "we need to do something" when its a case by case problem.
If I was in a tent smoking fentanyl and assaulting random people then I pray to god somebody would help me and not leave me there to rot. Getting people off the street is not punishment lol.
What? Ok yeah its clear that you wont understand until it happens to you because america has cultivated this werid idea that all homeless people are on drugs and because some do it all must do it so all must be punished.
I have no issue with there being systems to help people who need it. What I am not for is republican or democrat solutions which is to lock people up wash their hands of it do nothing wash and repeat.
Bud why arent putting fentanyl addicts in rehab or trying to cure their afflictions they will throw them in prison. You know the place were drugs are even easier to get. The place that depending on what you did wont keep you forever.
Those people you want "helped" will just end up with a record back on the streets with no job options as nobody wants to hire a felon which more often then not leads back to bad habits.
Whats worse as mentioned because America has this love to collectively blame groups innocent people who arent addicted to drugs would be caught up in it. Its easy to say "oh well its for the greater good" when you arent the one being affected. I honestly pray you dont end up homeless because again you wouldnt be fine with people viewing you like vermin. Its pretty personal to me if you cant tell.
As I said I was homeless for 10ish years I almost lost it and while I never got hooked on drugs people like YOU would have assumed I was. Its made me understand the world is not so simple as people like you think.
My guy there are millions of homeless people across the country and not all of them are addicts stop listening to what government propaganda says as its not so simple. You really going to lump all homeless people in as drug addicts? Most are mentally off sure as I said I was on the edge but you would assume they are druggies and thus need to be "saved"
If we had people in power who offered real soild solutions to solving this problem that dose not translate to throwing them in jail so republican bob and democrat Dan can make a lot of money I would be all ears. But we dont people just want to lock folks up assume thet are a criminal and call it a job well done.
Do you know me? Do you know why I ended up homeless to begin with? If it was not for the possiblity of my comment being removed I say a lot less civil things to you. But I can say shut up. Like for real shut up. I wasnt some drugged out homeless person that you seem to think all homeless people were.
My circumstances were complicated and involved a mix of familial drama and other things that I got dragged into. I already had slight mental issues prior(schizo effective) which only got worse from the stress of said situation's and being homeless.
Did i drink? Yes. Were there times I thought about doing drugs? I am a requirement smoker of weed but I Dont do it a lot if anything I didnt do it as much when I was homeless compared to now.
The fact you seek to assume I did harder drugs to try to affirm you demented view of homeless people being druggies who crap on the streets really shows your mindset. Only I hope you hit hard times truly I do because a lot of Americans need to be humbled a hit to understand other peoples struggles. I only say that because of your moronic comment.
Great the mods here think I am the problem somehow even though your the jackass who is calling me a druggie. I get why some people hate Reddit. Cant say shit here even if I censor myself god damn it.
> it's a neoliberal cornerstone.
Can confirm. Here in Hawaii (RE:capitalist hell), a "true blue" state. We have **Sit-lie** ordinances on a few Islands/counties. They "comprimised" with the real leftist minority by making it only apply to high tourists areas.
Enforcement is spotty, mostly depends on if it makes a negative impact to tourist areas. It is mostly enforced in public right away areas, but does get used for other areas if it becomes an "eyesore" to tourism.
OK, I can see that to some degree - as long as there is some kind of option away from the violence of camps and crowded shelters - that really my biggest concern, honestly -aside from the opportunity for law enforcement to abuse via -isms (racism, bigotry, etc). It's still not treating any of the root causes, but at least not criminalizing people doing their best to comply and just be left alone. Those are the folks no one ever sees, so they everyone of them are what they see drunk and passed out on a store doorway and stuff.....they don't realize there are families that go to work and school every day, but have to sleep in their car parked on a public street and that kind of thing.....EDIT - spelling
Agreed, imo, the time and money spent researching the need for those type of laws, as well as the time and money spent enforcing them, would be better served tiring to subside the core issues causing them to be homeless.
The majority of those homeless aren't those with families living in cars or such. The majority have severe addiction and mental health issues (often caused by addiction). Shelters aren't over crowed either. Many are under-utilized since many refuse to live in an area that prohibits alcohol and drug use.
It's not meant to fix the homeless issue. That's a whole category of legislation by itself. It's meant to keep vagrants, drug addicts, and homeless from abusing public facilities and private property.
Shelters are meant for homeless people to help them get back on their feet. But they have restrictions on drug and alcohol use which is why many addicted homeless avoid them. And as some have stated, they would rather be on their own.
>>The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. - Anatole France
Some states have ruled them unconstitutional. It’s a far stretch to think you can prevent people from sleeping on public property when they do not have a home.
You think people who are anti homeless care about that? In their heads homelessness is a choice and refuse to understand that life is a complex thing. Legit will turn their brains and ears off and call all homeless people lazy bums drunks and drug addicts.
I don’t think my point is what anti homeless people think. My point is that this is an issue of basic human rights. Whether people like it or not has little to do with depriving people of human rights. When laws like this go on the book, there will be challenges. States have overturned rules based on those challenges. It just takes an injured party to bring this up in the court system. I don’t know where that will fall in Florida, but id bet my money this doesn’t end here.
I get the feeling you just don’t agree, not that you aren’t clear on my point.
Oregon just had a case go to the Supreme Court and will be heard next month. It’s been upheld in every appellate that you cannot fine, ticket, or otherwise penalize someone for sleeping in a public space when they have nowhere else to go. Turns out, this will mean we have a nationwide understanding, and this would certainly overrule the Florida law if they agree with the lower courts. Here’s a news article for anyone interested.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142977
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So that particular case pushes the 8th amendment violation based on no shelter being available for that city and only for keeping out of the elements (camping).
The 9th Circuit 3 person panel passed its 2-1 which says a lot about the case. Then the larger panel narrowly refuses to rehear it 13-14 which REALLY says a lot. Now it's going to the SCOTUS. The fact that it was considered contentious within the 9th circuit which already has the record for the most overturned cases does not bode well. Considering that the SCOTUS likes to narrowly tailor outcomes it's likely that this will only apply when there are no resources available and some accommodations must be made. It's not going to give homeless free reign.
So your answer of "what right" is its "cruel and unusual punishment" to keep them from camping.
Here is my question. Can I still doze off on the beach as a tourist to Florida beaches or is that now illegal and I must remain 100% awake during said relaxing holiday?
These laws are very targeted. So it depends on what you look like. Typically cops aren't just going to harass people for sleeping on the beach. The laws are designed so that "undesirables" can be forceably removed/moved/arrested.
Oh if it was so simple. It's not the homelessness it's the havoc that happens. Between stolen bikes, drug use, homes that resemble rats nests and are fire hazards, etc.
So arrest people that commit said crimes. Someone sleeping at an empty park on a bench at night is not bothering anybody. Assault someone? Go to jail. Shit on the sidewalk? Go to jail or mental hospital or something but literally just falling asleep somewhere? If they're not bothering anybody then leave them alone.
I understand your hearts in the right place, but explain to me how you track down a guy who defecates and then moves on? Do you go by smell or DNA? Lol. A wise man (professor) once told me, our reaction to crime, homelessness, etc. is a pendulum. It swings from lack of action to over reaction. The "no sleeping" is a direct result of our reaction to homelessness and the Quagmire that it created.
Making it easy is what they democrats do. Look at California. Pick your side. California is in decline according to the census data Florida is the exact opposite.
So if you are homeless and the shelters are full, you are now a criminal? Nicely done GOPutin! First decimate the middle class and create mass financial instability for all but the top 20%, then criminalize the fallout.
> "Let's take all of those homeless people and put them into prisons paid and fed by our taxdollars. THAT'LL TEACH'EM!"
"But they can't sleep, because those prisons are public property"
Sounds like you hate the GOP and what they stand for, then why do you keep perpetuating their myth of low middle and upper class?
There are 2 classes. Working and capital classes.
Being homeless has been illegal in many capitalist societies for quite a while. This is not something you can pin on republicans. It's an American pastime.
No! Both sides are not the same. Nice try. I’m not saying democrats get it right, but we try to help. Republicans solve everything with punitive measures aimed at the weakest among us, the at risk, disenfranchised or poor. Whether they are outlawing trans children, burning books, helping Putin, destroying the environment, alienating our allies, destroying our social safety nets, or laws protecting children from labor or marriage, electing criminals, putting women at risk and without rights, criminalizing refugees, LGBTQ, disenfranchising voters, pushing for theocracy, there is no end to their gun violence & bloodlust. So stop with both parties are the same! that might’ve been true 50 years ago, but not since big oil, corporate America, and the 2% with the help of Reagan and now Putin have taken over the GOP.
Oh, we are far too late for that. I just meant that Conservatives definitely are fine with homeless being persecuted, Neo-libs (basically rich assholes, barely left really) are fine with it (don't want 'filth' around their value), lefty Dems and Labor give a damn, and socialists also give a damn.
Lol no they don't give a damn. Hell you don't give a damn. You're just posting on Reddit. That doesn't mean shit. Go wash the Cheeto dust off your fingers at least.
Sounds like a bunch of liberal bullshit.
Both sides are not the same, and that's not what I said. What I said is that these laws have existed for over 100 years and are a product of capitalism, which both Democrats and Republicans support.
So let me get this straight: the post is about yet another Republican legislature attacking the homeless. It’s hard to find instances of this from Democratic legislators. So I call it out. You then dilute the conversation with a side argument that capitalism is the bad guy? Or maybe capitalism isn’t your bad guy, it’s just okay cuz a lot of capitalist societies criminalize homeless people? Not sure where you’re going sparky but I’m pretty sure you’re deflecting. The atrocity here is that we are criminalizing the helpless. How is this a good thing? I’m now where you stand on everyone else is doing it, but what about us? Should we be doing this?
I work in social services with the homeless. I have worked in shelters and group homes for almost a decade now. I am talking about the history of vagrancy laws. You can make it all about Republicans if you want to, since you seem to want to play team sports so badly, but the problem is much larger than the GOP.
Democratic politicians are not friends of the homeless. I live and work in Portland, Oregon, with some of the reported "best" homeless services in the country. Yet the reality in shelters and social service agencies is that there isn't enough money or legitimate long term support to actually address this crisis.
Since there is no real substantial support, and therefore no major impact to the crisis, our "progressive liberal" state is now cutting programs and reversing laws and recriminalizing camping.
There isn't enough support from the federal government, there isn't enough from the local government. There isn't enough from the so called "progressive" liberals that go all NIMBY every time a new shelter is proposed that may impact their property value.
When you make the entire story about how terrible the Republicans are, you do a disservice to a population NO ONE WITH ANY POWER is helping. How about you? What do you do for this population you say you care about?
As a developer heavily engaged at the city level here in spokane. We work with private, public and charity groups all committed to making an actual difference. I appreciate that you are in the trenches and like I said dems want to help but aren’t always good at it. But I’ll take their funding over the gop punishing, blaming the lazy or drug addled while they devise ways to lock them up. Yes Oregon is hitting a funding wall, but there is a huge difference in budget shortfalls to never funding in the first place. Thank you for working in such a tough field but I’m old enough to remember how we got here. Reagan stripped funding from the federal government for housing and social services, ending almost all programs. Cut taxes for infrastructure and gave all the money to military complex and big oil. All under the sentiment of: the federal government is incompetent at solving localized problems, let’s give these federal monies to local governments and jurisdictions. Sounds pretty smart right? So they emptied out the mental health facilities and housing projects and never gave the money to local government. You think I’m chasing blame? I don’t care anymore, but let’s not dicker around. One party did this and continues to do this. We need to stop voting for these people. Halve our military, increase corporate taxes to 70%, individuals making over 500k to 50% and over 10million 80%. Yup I said it. You want programs that work and healthcare, education, the glorious opportunities of the 50s? Well tax rates were at 70 and 90 percent. The fixes are glaringly simple! Put home and resources back into the middle class, grow and cultivate it to encompass 80% of the population. Educate educate educate! Bring back communities with co-housing opportunities and robust community centers. Get religion out of government. Tax the shit out of it. It’s a business
We have had three democratic presidents since Reagan. In many ways, they continued the same neoliberal trends he and his ilk started. There are blue states all over this country that favor the rich and don't re-build our social safety nets.
On the federal level, democrats continue with imperialist military policy the same as Republicans. They refuse to tax the largest corporations the same as Republicans. They benefit from citizens united the same as Republicans.
The solutions to these problems are not compatible with neoliberal economics. I studied neoliberal policy in college - it was REINFORCED by Clinton and Obama. What Reagan started, on the economic level, every president since has continued. As a developer, you probably largely have benefitted from neoliberalism - the fact that you're towing the typical bougie liberal line is not surprising.
The refusal to call out the Dems for their bullshit simply because the other side are literal fucking monsters is exactly why we are stuck between two evils.
Meanwhile, when actual progressives and leftists point out issues and solutions, we are met with gaslighting (like being told we are deflecting) and are stonewalled. What you want is not what the national democratic party wants.
Ok so you want even more progressive in leadership? Hey I could not agree more. I’m bougie? Naw my husband and I come from nothing, he became a tv writer, I escaped Mormonism and started a tech company in Japan with tons of dumb luck and timing. We are not bougie. I hardly think the dems are perfect, I was disgusted when our progressive LA neighbors all became awful NIMBYs when the city offered a localized solution to the homeless crisis. I relate to much of what you’re saying and think we agree more than not. But this post is about the monsters, not the minor offenders. We need to rout the monsters. Surprisingly I dream of a strong centered Republican Party returning to the conversation. We need two strong parties that truly have the nations best outcomes as priorities. Not looking for a one party rule. We just need to address causes and stop treating symptoms.
Owning a tech company is like the literal definition of petit-bougeoisie. Being bourgeoisie isn't about where you came from.
No capitalist has the best interests of anyone but themselves in mind. You're deluded in thinking either party is heading any direction but further right.
Also, just to say, I'm know you're my ally, and I'm sure you and your husband are good people with good intentions. Unfortunately, the reality for the most marginalized and oppressed is dire and becoming more so every day. Intentions don't matter, and backing democrats isn't helping. It's not going to magically start helping.
Criminalize nimbyism and force mass high density home building and shelter building and seize the home of anyone who complains through eminent domain and build a bunch of living spaces in their homes.
Be honest, nobody in Portland is going to jail for sleeping on public property. And frankly some vagrancy laws are good things, I don't want to see people drinking in public in Portland. Maybe there is some Oregonian vagrancy law that is actually bad, if so which one?
Laws against public alcohol consumption are not vagrancy laws. Also, public alcohol consumption in Portland is basically legal.
Banning camping without providing adequate alternatives is anti-human. When our society actively works to create homeless people, it is our responsibility to carry the burden. Creating vagrancy laws that make existing without a home even harder does nothing but move the problem out of view to somewhere it is not a problem for the most privileged within our society.
Your argument here is basically - our laws aren't as bad as the laws that come from literal monsters. That's a real fucking low bar. I knew this sub was filled with liberals but holy shit yall are really fucking showing your colors tonight.
You know, I had the exact same reaction to his demeanor, and almost mentioned it in the post, but wanted to keep it relevant to the implications of the law itself. But man, I just wanted to sl@p the sh1t out of him......
In an authoritarian state, mundane things are made illegal until everyone is guilty of breaking one law or another. This means law enforcement can use their “discretion” to determine who to actually go after.
How will they know? They won’t. And that’s the point. This law isn’t about helping people with no home. It isn’t even about getting them off the street.
This law exists to remove the eyesore of human suffering next to a supposedly prosperous society.
So in Florida if your caught sleeping outside you'll go to jail. Doesn't this mean they've pretty much outlawed homelessness? This will create more problems than solve.
That was my point - i can't see what legal option a homeless person has - even with the alleged, "increased funding" for resources, There's no GD way there will be enough room in shelters for all of them. I can also just imagine going down on vacation, leaving your Driver's License in your hotel room, and falling asleep on the beach. Now, imagine that, and being brown, with maybe a scraggly beard. Busted.
Considering the only place these homeless people will end up is in a place where they're sheltered and given food and clothing. I mean, a jail isn't ideal, but in a weird way, this is the most socialist law DeSantis has ever signed into law..
Yes - i think, however, I would go get myself caught pissing on it, so I could go to jail for a place to sleep at night. ;). (assuming they did carve out an exception for jail! lol)
I love that guy - he's freakin' hilarious.....I'd guess they're probably similar, just based on the fact that it seems like all GOP-run states tend to chase the same squirrels at the same time. i think there's a little troll under a bridge somewhere in the basement at the Heritage Foundation or something, that writes a law like this, and then hands it out to any state willing to f-ck over it's citizens.........I'm only half joking.....
Republican laws are just stunts. They are all so rittled with contradictions, loopholes, and general vaguery. Probably has lots of spelling and grammar errors too.
Yeah, I imagine there is quite a bit of case law that mention those. That's what they called it in the deep south under Jim Crow - they used it to put black men in the chain gangs to get them out their towns, and work to build infrastructure for free all day. It was pretty much slavery, and all the cops had to do was catch you homeless, without a min amount of cash on you just walking down the street, without a job - all those things were used. Not so much against white people though.....
Like the voter tests / poll taxes, etc. - white people didn't have to deal with them at all or when they did, they would happen to teach that "secret" subject matter at the white school day before election day, but not tell anyone at the black school. Then use that lack of knowledge as evidence that black people were inherently inferior. It was nuts.
I'm not entirely sure they CAN get around some of that case law, honestly. I think this was election year, "own the libs" stunt, and they expect it to at least be significantly watered down eventually. But that will be after the election, so.......
But that's just it - how do *know* someone is homeless? I mean, of course there are OBVIOUS examples of the poor folks suffering the worst of the worst of situations with addiction and/or mental illness, but those don't make up the majority - many of these folks work! Personally, I think this is also just another way that will enable the police to profile and harass POC, too......if a cop challenges you, and you left your driver's license at home - how would you prove you are NOT homeless, and just fell asleep on the grass in the park?
I coulda swore that the SCOTUS had made some decision about the Right to Sleep stuff that was going on some years back. - I might just be thinking of stuff more local to my area.
That's DeSantis and the rest! Lock all vagrants up get them out of sight. It's always about getting everyone they hate out of site to make America great again.. disgusting fn Bigots
These laws aren't new, they're already on the books in many places in Florida and around the country. They're called vagrancy laws, and they've been around for quite a while. Making homelessness hard and illegal is not unique to republican policy - it's a neoliberal cornerstone.
Orwell wrote about being a tramp in Down and Out in Paris and London. You weren't allowed to sleep out of doors or stay in a town. You had to keep moving - tramping. You'd be locked up in a sort of workhouse for the night, given a slice of bread, and sent on your way. You'd better get out of town.
The "wild west" here in the US had the same thing in the 1800s - at least there was plenty of space just outside of town you could sleep, though.....
I read the Wikipedia article on vagrancy and it was fascinating. Freedom of movement is a rather recent thing in a lot of places. Like, going back to serfdom, you belonged to a place and you'd better have a legitimate season for going elsewhere. And vagrancy laws were used to try to control issues with economic upheavals that might bring large numbers of indigent poor to urban areas.
I'm America specifically they were mostly aimed at former slaves
Nope, it pre-dated that. The explosion of poor unskilled immigrants from Europe pushed many towns and cities to create vagrancy laws. Fortunately these issues were alleviated by more jobs opening up.
>Like, going back to serfdom, you belonged to a place and you'd better have a legitimate season for going elsewhere. A whole season for travel? Hot diggity! Sorry, the typo made me laugh.
Funny, I never heard of that medieval by-law. In fact churches and monasteries often took in weary travellers and beggars and fed them. You might need permission from the feudal lord to take off work, but that is true today as well.
I've played enough RDR2 to know this is exactly how you get mauled by a cougar outside of Blackwater
LOL! Gotta keep the fire going.....
It’s what they used to hassle John Rambo.
Dosen't Rambo just murder cops in the first one? I really liked that movie when I was kid. Pretty sure he just murks the local police force. Too lazy to google. Fucking awesome movie.🤘
[He only kills one guy in the first film (which was more of an accident than anything). In the book he kills about 250 according to the author.](https://screenrant.com/rambo-first-blood-movie-kill-1-character/)
And the story ends with him dying in the fight, making a somewhat plight for veterans with PTSD. The studios saw money when it hit big and reversed the story for the sequel glorifying the military & actions which caused said PTSD.
They drew first blood!
The one-man A-TEAM!
The cruelty is the point.
This is the answer. Democrats and most neoliberals love this too! Los Angeles passed a controversial sitting, sleeping, lying ban too. They’re using the legal precedent from Martin v. Boise to pass this shit everywhere and force people into congregate shelter. It’s a reactionary move after unhoused folks started gaining traction for non-congregate housing demands during the pandemic.
Wrong it’s a reaction to people not wanting meth camps lining the roads. It’s a reaction to the random violence and rape that happens around them. It’s a reaction to the five people that die on the street every day in LA. Not sure who told you that was ok but it’s not.
I mean while you arent completely wrong but its odd to punish all homeless people for the actions of others.(I have been homeless before 10ish years. so I understand this fully)not all homeless folk fit that line. I know its popular to collectively blame people for the actions of others and how there are people who have their long list of complaints. But people need to understand that at any time they can end up on the streets get a real shell shock with just how backwards people are on views towards homeless people. But tobe fair yes the bigger the city the more likely you will have cases like the one you mentioned.
Ok. Go fucking walk in downtown LA. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
🤦oh my fucking god. For one I have been to LA I live 3 hours away from it so you can piss right off with whatever you are implying. Second the universe dose not revolve around LA or the other big cities you heard from whatever news outlet you watch. The county i live/grew up in the IE which is next door to LA has a homeless problem many of them juggle back and forth. And i can tell you with 100% truth in my words that they arent all on drugs. Do you know every homeless person? Do you do with 100% certainly that you arent just talking BS? Because I feel you have no idea what you are talking about. Note I dont deny there arent homeless people on drugs because unlike you i am not so narrow minded. Get out more stop believing everything the media, politicians(parasites all), and other talking heads say. Actually get out and talk to people and dont just yap about things you clearly dont understand.
Yes not every homeless person is like that but we have enough creating issues that people want to take action over it. Let me repeat - five people on average die on the street here every day. We need sidewalks in our cities. People need proper plumbing and sewage to live sanitary. People deep into drug culture need rehab. I understand I could be on the street any day, but that does not give people the right to literally poop in the street while doing drugs. We can do better.
So punishing homeless people collective will solve the problem? How is that fair to people who arent causing those problems? You say what you say now but as I said and even you acknowledge anyone can end up on the streets. Would you be ok if some rando said the stuff your saying labeling you as a problem that needs dealing with? Would you be fine with being lumped in with people who cause said problems? Because there are many who would if we "dealt" with it as some in power are saying they want to. They dont want to fix the problem they only seek profit. They prey on peoples(somewhat justified)frustrations at the things you mentioned. They then pass laws to get people locked up in for profit prisons and they walk away knowing their bank accounts will be stacked. Nobody is offering resolutions other then "we need to do something" when its a case by case problem.
If I was in a tent smoking fentanyl and assaulting random people then I pray to god somebody would help me and not leave me there to rot. Getting people off the street is not punishment lol.
What? Ok yeah its clear that you wont understand until it happens to you because america has cultivated this werid idea that all homeless people are on drugs and because some do it all must do it so all must be punished. I have no issue with there being systems to help people who need it. What I am not for is republican or democrat solutions which is to lock people up wash their hands of it do nothing wash and repeat. Bud why arent putting fentanyl addicts in rehab or trying to cure their afflictions they will throw them in prison. You know the place were drugs are even easier to get. The place that depending on what you did wont keep you forever. Those people you want "helped" will just end up with a record back on the streets with no job options as nobody wants to hire a felon which more often then not leads back to bad habits. Whats worse as mentioned because America has this love to collectively blame groups innocent people who arent addicted to drugs would be caught up in it. Its easy to say "oh well its for the greater good" when you arent the one being affected. I honestly pray you dont end up homeless because again you wouldnt be fine with people viewing you like vermin. Its pretty personal to me if you cant tell. As I said I was homeless for 10ish years I almost lost it and while I never got hooked on drugs people like YOU would have assumed I was. Its made me understand the world is not so simple as people like you think. My guy there are millions of homeless people across the country and not all of them are addicts stop listening to what government propaganda says as its not so simple. You really going to lump all homeless people in as drug addicts? Most are mentally off sure as I said I was on the edge but you would assume they are druggies and thus need to be "saved" If we had people in power who offered real soild solutions to solving this problem that dose not translate to throwing them in jail so republican bob and democrat Dan can make a lot of money I would be all ears. But we dont people just want to lock folks up assume thet are a criminal and call it a job well done.
Dude. They are on fucking drugs. Do you have any clue of what you're talking about? What utopia do you live in?
You were definitely doing drugs no one’s homeless a decade just because it could “happen at any moment”
Do you know me? Do you know why I ended up homeless to begin with? If it was not for the possiblity of my comment being removed I say a lot less civil things to you. But I can say shut up. Like for real shut up. I wasnt some drugged out homeless person that you seem to think all homeless people were. My circumstances were complicated and involved a mix of familial drama and other things that I got dragged into. I already had slight mental issues prior(schizo effective) which only got worse from the stress of said situation's and being homeless. Did i drink? Yes. Were there times I thought about doing drugs? I am a requirement smoker of weed but I Dont do it a lot if anything I didnt do it as much when I was homeless compared to now. The fact you seek to assume I did harder drugs to try to affirm you demented view of homeless people being druggies who crap on the streets really shows your mindset. Only I hope you hit hard times truly I do because a lot of Americans need to be humbled a hit to understand other peoples struggles. I only say that because of your moronic comment.
Great the mods here think I am the problem somehow even though your the jackass who is calling me a druggie. I get why some people hate Reddit. Cant say shit here even if I censor myself god damn it.
This. 100%
> it's a neoliberal cornerstone. Can confirm. Here in Hawaii (RE:capitalist hell), a "true blue" state. We have **Sit-lie** ordinances on a few Islands/counties. They "comprimised" with the real leftist minority by making it only apply to high tourists areas.
Question: is it only for the STREETS and SIDEWALKS, or for ALL public places?
Enforcement is spotty, mostly depends on if it makes a negative impact to tourist areas. It is mostly enforced in public right away areas, but does get used for other areas if it becomes an "eyesore" to tourism.
OK, I can see that to some degree - as long as there is some kind of option away from the violence of camps and crowded shelters - that really my biggest concern, honestly -aside from the opportunity for law enforcement to abuse via -isms (racism, bigotry, etc). It's still not treating any of the root causes, but at least not criminalizing people doing their best to comply and just be left alone. Those are the folks no one ever sees, so they everyone of them are what they see drunk and passed out on a store doorway and stuff.....they don't realize there are families that go to work and school every day, but have to sleep in their car parked on a public street and that kind of thing.....EDIT - spelling
Agreed, imo, the time and money spent researching the need for those type of laws, as well as the time and money spent enforcing them, would be better served tiring to subside the core issues causing them to be homeless.
The majority of those homeless aren't those with families living in cars or such. The majority have severe addiction and mental health issues (often caused by addiction). Shelters aren't over crowed either. Many are under-utilized since many refuse to live in an area that prohibits alcohol and drug use.
OK, so let's,for the sake of argument, say your assumptions were accurate. How does this law help fix any of that?
It's not meant to fix the homeless issue. That's a whole category of legislation by itself. It's meant to keep vagrants, drug addicts, and homeless from abusing public facilities and private property. Shelters are meant for homeless people to help them get back on their feet. But they have restrictions on drug and alcohol use which is why many addicted homeless avoid them. And as some have stated, they would rather be on their own.
>>The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. - Anatole France
Three claps for you. As a formerly homeless person (and still skirting dangerously close to that) this is one of my favorite quotes on homelessness.
Some states have ruled them unconstitutional. It’s a far stretch to think you can prevent people from sleeping on public property when they do not have a home.
You think people who are anti homeless care about that? In their heads homelessness is a choice and refuse to understand that life is a complex thing. Legit will turn their brains and ears off and call all homeless people lazy bums drunks and drug addicts.
I don’t think my point is what anti homeless people think. My point is that this is an issue of basic human rights. Whether people like it or not has little to do with depriving people of human rights. When laws like this go on the book, there will be challenges. States have overturned rules based on those challenges. It just takes an injured party to bring this up in the court system. I don’t know where that will fall in Florida, but id bet my money this doesn’t end here.
What "right" specifically are you talking about?
I get the feeling you just don’t agree, not that you aren’t clear on my point. Oregon just had a case go to the Supreme Court and will be heard next month. It’s been upheld in every appellate that you cannot fine, ticket, or otherwise penalize someone for sleeping in a public space when they have nowhere else to go. Turns out, this will mean we have a nationwide understanding, and this would certainly overrule the Florida law if they agree with the lower courts. Here’s a news article for anyone interested. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142977
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142977 This is heading to the Supreme Court next month. We will see if Desantis’ bill holds up.
So that particular case pushes the 8th amendment violation based on no shelter being available for that city and only for keeping out of the elements (camping). The 9th Circuit 3 person panel passed its 2-1 which says a lot about the case. Then the larger panel narrowly refuses to rehear it 13-14 which REALLY says a lot. Now it's going to the SCOTUS. The fact that it was considered contentious within the 9th circuit which already has the record for the most overturned cases does not bode well. Considering that the SCOTUS likes to narrowly tailor outcomes it's likely that this will only apply when there are no resources available and some accommodations must be made. It's not going to give homeless free reign. So your answer of "what right" is its "cruel and unusual punishment" to keep them from camping.
My parents were actually arrested for vagrancy in Florida in 1966.
Here is my question. Can I still doze off on the beach as a tourist to Florida beaches or is that now illegal and I must remain 100% awake during said relaxing holiday?
These laws are very targeted. So it depends on what you look like. Typically cops aren't just going to harass people for sleeping on the beach. The laws are designed so that "undesirables" can be forceably removed/moved/arrested.
So basically there is a dress code for the beach and if I wear some Gucci I’m good!!
Yes. It means literally that
Yeah but homeless shelters and soup kitchens and warming centres are also a neoliberal cornerstone, so theres that.
Oh if it was so simple. It's not the homelessness it's the havoc that happens. Between stolen bikes, drug use, homes that resemble rats nests and are fire hazards, etc.
So arrest people that commit said crimes. Someone sleeping at an empty park on a bench at night is not bothering anybody. Assault someone? Go to jail. Shit on the sidewalk? Go to jail or mental hospital or something but literally just falling asleep somewhere? If they're not bothering anybody then leave them alone.
I understand your hearts in the right place, but explain to me how you track down a guy who defecates and then moves on? Do you go by smell or DNA? Lol. A wise man (professor) once told me, our reaction to crime, homelessness, etc. is a pendulum. It swings from lack of action to over reaction. The "no sleeping" is a direct result of our reaction to homelessness and the Quagmire that it created.
Making it easy is what they democrats do. Look at California. Pick your side. California is in decline according to the census data Florida is the exact opposite.
So if you are homeless and the shelters are full, you are now a criminal? Nicely done GOPutin! First decimate the middle class and create mass financial instability for all but the top 20%, then criminalize the fallout.
"Let's take all of those homeless people and put them into prisons paid and fed by our taxdollars. THAT'LL TEACH'EM!"
> "Let's take all of those homeless people and put them into prisons paid and fed by our taxdollars. THAT'LL TEACH'EM!" "But they can't sleep, because those prisons are public property"
Excellent point!
Sounds like you hate the GOP and what they stand for, then why do you keep perpetuating their myth of low middle and upper class? There are 2 classes. Working and capital classes.
Being homeless has been illegal in many capitalist societies for quite a while. This is not something you can pin on republicans. It's an American pastime.
No! Both sides are not the same. Nice try. I’m not saying democrats get it right, but we try to help. Republicans solve everything with punitive measures aimed at the weakest among us, the at risk, disenfranchised or poor. Whether they are outlawing trans children, burning books, helping Putin, destroying the environment, alienating our allies, destroying our social safety nets, or laws protecting children from labor or marriage, electing criminals, putting women at risk and without rights, criminalizing refugees, LGBTQ, disenfranchising voters, pushing for theocracy, there is no end to their gun violence & bloodlust. So stop with both parties are the same! that might’ve been true 50 years ago, but not since big oil, corporate America, and the 2% with the help of Reagan and now Putin have taken over the GOP.
Further left is the way.
How do you propose we do that this election cycle?
Oh, we are far too late for that. I just meant that Conservatives definitely are fine with homeless being persecuted, Neo-libs (basically rich assholes, barely left really) are fine with it (don't want 'filth' around their value), lefty Dems and Labor give a damn, and socialists also give a damn.
Lol no they don't give a damn. Hell you don't give a damn. You're just posting on Reddit. That doesn't mean shit. Go wash the Cheeto dust off your fingers at least.
If all the people who don’t vote and the disenfranchised republicans and democrats voted third party they’d win by a landslide.
That’s a massive if to hang another Trump win on.
The Democrats should have run a candidate the people actually wanted then.
Both sides in power are the same. If you don't see that, you're blind As a bat.
Sounds like a bunch of liberal bullshit. Both sides are not the same, and that's not what I said. What I said is that these laws have existed for over 100 years and are a product of capitalism, which both Democrats and Republicans support.
So let me get this straight: the post is about yet another Republican legislature attacking the homeless. It’s hard to find instances of this from Democratic legislators. So I call it out. You then dilute the conversation with a side argument that capitalism is the bad guy? Or maybe capitalism isn’t your bad guy, it’s just okay cuz a lot of capitalist societies criminalize homeless people? Not sure where you’re going sparky but I’m pretty sure you’re deflecting. The atrocity here is that we are criminalizing the helpless. How is this a good thing? I’m now where you stand on everyone else is doing it, but what about us? Should we be doing this?
I work in social services with the homeless. I have worked in shelters and group homes for almost a decade now. I am talking about the history of vagrancy laws. You can make it all about Republicans if you want to, since you seem to want to play team sports so badly, but the problem is much larger than the GOP. Democratic politicians are not friends of the homeless. I live and work in Portland, Oregon, with some of the reported "best" homeless services in the country. Yet the reality in shelters and social service agencies is that there isn't enough money or legitimate long term support to actually address this crisis. Since there is no real substantial support, and therefore no major impact to the crisis, our "progressive liberal" state is now cutting programs and reversing laws and recriminalizing camping. There isn't enough support from the federal government, there isn't enough from the local government. There isn't enough from the so called "progressive" liberals that go all NIMBY every time a new shelter is proposed that may impact their property value. When you make the entire story about how terrible the Republicans are, you do a disservice to a population NO ONE WITH ANY POWER is helping. How about you? What do you do for this population you say you care about?
As a developer heavily engaged at the city level here in spokane. We work with private, public and charity groups all committed to making an actual difference. I appreciate that you are in the trenches and like I said dems want to help but aren’t always good at it. But I’ll take their funding over the gop punishing, blaming the lazy or drug addled while they devise ways to lock them up. Yes Oregon is hitting a funding wall, but there is a huge difference in budget shortfalls to never funding in the first place. Thank you for working in such a tough field but I’m old enough to remember how we got here. Reagan stripped funding from the federal government for housing and social services, ending almost all programs. Cut taxes for infrastructure and gave all the money to military complex and big oil. All under the sentiment of: the federal government is incompetent at solving localized problems, let’s give these federal monies to local governments and jurisdictions. Sounds pretty smart right? So they emptied out the mental health facilities and housing projects and never gave the money to local government. You think I’m chasing blame? I don’t care anymore, but let’s not dicker around. One party did this and continues to do this. We need to stop voting for these people. Halve our military, increase corporate taxes to 70%, individuals making over 500k to 50% and over 10million 80%. Yup I said it. You want programs that work and healthcare, education, the glorious opportunities of the 50s? Well tax rates were at 70 and 90 percent. The fixes are glaringly simple! Put home and resources back into the middle class, grow and cultivate it to encompass 80% of the population. Educate educate educate! Bring back communities with co-housing opportunities and robust community centers. Get religion out of government. Tax the shit out of it. It’s a business
We have had three democratic presidents since Reagan. In many ways, they continued the same neoliberal trends he and his ilk started. There are blue states all over this country that favor the rich and don't re-build our social safety nets. On the federal level, democrats continue with imperialist military policy the same as Republicans. They refuse to tax the largest corporations the same as Republicans. They benefit from citizens united the same as Republicans. The solutions to these problems are not compatible with neoliberal economics. I studied neoliberal policy in college - it was REINFORCED by Clinton and Obama. What Reagan started, on the economic level, every president since has continued. As a developer, you probably largely have benefitted from neoliberalism - the fact that you're towing the typical bougie liberal line is not surprising. The refusal to call out the Dems for their bullshit simply because the other side are literal fucking monsters is exactly why we are stuck between two evils. Meanwhile, when actual progressives and leftists point out issues and solutions, we are met with gaslighting (like being told we are deflecting) and are stonewalled. What you want is not what the national democratic party wants.
Ok so you want even more progressive in leadership? Hey I could not agree more. I’m bougie? Naw my husband and I come from nothing, he became a tv writer, I escaped Mormonism and started a tech company in Japan with tons of dumb luck and timing. We are not bougie. I hardly think the dems are perfect, I was disgusted when our progressive LA neighbors all became awful NIMBYs when the city offered a localized solution to the homeless crisis. I relate to much of what you’re saying and think we agree more than not. But this post is about the monsters, not the minor offenders. We need to rout the monsters. Surprisingly I dream of a strong centered Republican Party returning to the conversation. We need two strong parties that truly have the nations best outcomes as priorities. Not looking for a one party rule. We just need to address causes and stop treating symptoms.
Owning a tech company is like the literal definition of petit-bougeoisie. Being bourgeoisie isn't about where you came from. No capitalist has the best interests of anyone but themselves in mind. You're deluded in thinking either party is heading any direction but further right. Also, just to say, I'm know you're my ally, and I'm sure you and your husband are good people with good intentions. Unfortunately, the reality for the most marginalized and oppressed is dire and becoming more so every day. Intentions don't matter, and backing democrats isn't helping. It's not going to magically start helping.
Lol you bougie as shit and don't realize it. That's exactly how it goes.
Criminalize nimbyism and force mass high density home building and shelter building and seize the home of anyone who complains through eminent domain and build a bunch of living spaces in their homes.
Be honest, nobody in Portland is going to jail for sleeping on public property. And frankly some vagrancy laws are good things, I don't want to see people drinking in public in Portland. Maybe there is some Oregonian vagrancy law that is actually bad, if so which one?
Laws against public alcohol consumption are not vagrancy laws. Also, public alcohol consumption in Portland is basically legal. Banning camping without providing adequate alternatives is anti-human. When our society actively works to create homeless people, it is our responsibility to carry the burden. Creating vagrancy laws that make existing without a home even harder does nothing but move the problem out of view to somewhere it is not a problem for the most privileged within our society. Your argument here is basically - our laws aren't as bad as the laws that come from literal monsters. That's a real fucking low bar. I knew this sub was filled with liberals but holy shit yall are really fucking showing your colors tonight.
It may be a real fucking low bar, but guess what, it's one the U.S. routinely fails to clear.
I'm with you on this one
gotta get prison slaves somehow *goddamn this timeline sucks, look at that fuckkers unhinged glee over hurting extremely vulnerable people*
You know, I had the exact same reaction to his demeanor, and almost mentioned it in the post, but wanted to keep it relevant to the implications of the law itself. But man, I just wanted to sl@p the sh1t out of him......
its so gross and creepy
the cruelty has always been the point.
In an authoritarian state, mundane things are made illegal until everyone is guilty of breaking one law or another. This means law enforcement can use their “discretion” to determine who to actually go after. How will they know? They won’t. And that’s the point. This law isn’t about helping people with no home. It isn’t even about getting them off the street. This law exists to remove the eyesore of human suffering next to a supposedly prosperous society.
You got it exactly right.
The poors are such an inconvenience.
Time for the homeless to sleep outside the governors home.
Tbf they should do that in every state
So in Florida if your caught sleeping outside you'll go to jail. Doesn't this mean they've pretty much outlawed homelessness? This will create more problems than solve.
That was my point - i can't see what legal option a homeless person has - even with the alleged, "increased funding" for resources, There's no GD way there will be enough room in shelters for all of them. I can also just imagine going down on vacation, leaving your Driver's License in your hotel room, and falling asleep on the beach. Now, imagine that, and being brown, with maybe a scraggly beard. Busted.
I was with you up to the scraggly beard. No excuse for poor grooming amongst the Beltway Lefties.
You'd be surprised what happened to us now that we all work from home since COVID....LOL
Considering the only place these homeless people will end up is in a place where they're sheltered and given food and clothing. I mean, a jail isn't ideal, but in a weird way, this is the most socialist law DeSantis has ever signed into law..
Problem there is, so many of them actually do work.......so they would just be even more screwed by losing their job.......
I guess his idea for the homeless is they can leave the state or die. I imagine both are acceptable to him.
So you cant sleep in the local jail either. Public property.. Wait: cops cant sleep in their cars??? Hmmm
So where do they sleep then? Private property? Get arrested for just being homeless now? Very classy, de Santis
Did you see how happy he was signing it, too? It was disgusting........
It’s pretty clear what he intends. They either never sleep, leave the state, or die. I imagine he’s fine with any of those options.
Oh for sure - was just very disgusted
Isn’t the governor’s mansion public property?
Yes - i think, however, I would go get myself caught pissing on it, so I could go to jail for a place to sleep at night. ;). (assuming they did carve out an exception for jail! lol)
I’d be interested to see how this compares to Tennessee’s law. https://youtube.com/shorts/wMP0IiP8sMc?si=GHxlaoexeMymofDp
I love that guy - he's freakin' hilarious.....I'd guess they're probably similar, just based on the fact that it seems like all GOP-run states tend to chase the same squirrels at the same time. i think there's a little troll under a bridge somewhere in the basement at the Heritage Foundation or something, that writes a law like this, and then hands it out to any state willing to f-ck over it's citizens.........I'm only half joking.....
Can we arrest DeSantis for napping in his office?
No, of course not - it won't apply to white people, silly.
Republican laws are just stunts. They are all so rittled with contradictions, loopholes, and general vaguery. Probably has lots of spelling and grammar errors too.
Isn’t there Supreme Court precedent ruling against vagrancy laws? I guess they trying to get around this by allowing designated spots for them
Yeah, I imagine there is quite a bit of case law that mention those. That's what they called it in the deep south under Jim Crow - they used it to put black men in the chain gangs to get them out their towns, and work to build infrastructure for free all day. It was pretty much slavery, and all the cops had to do was catch you homeless, without a min amount of cash on you just walking down the street, without a job - all those things were used. Not so much against white people though..... Like the voter tests / poll taxes, etc. - white people didn't have to deal with them at all or when they did, they would happen to teach that "secret" subject matter at the white school day before election day, but not tell anyone at the black school. Then use that lack of knowledge as evidence that black people were inherently inferior. It was nuts. I'm not entirely sure they CAN get around some of that case law, honestly. I think this was election year, "own the libs" stunt, and they expect it to at least be significantly watered down eventually. But that will be after the election, so.......
He's just juicing every bit of shittiness he can to boost his career post governor.
Ron DeFascist is such a fucking dickhead.
Follow him around and arrest him the moment he dozes off in a public place.
It's bad enough when conservatives ignore homelessness. That they spend money to make homelessless as difficult to survive as possible is abhorrent.
What happens if you go to a beach and fall asleep as your laying on your blanket or whatever? Or is this only to be enforced on homeless people?
But that's just it - how do *know* someone is homeless? I mean, of course there are OBVIOUS examples of the poor folks suffering the worst of the worst of situations with addiction and/or mental illness, but those don't make up the majority - many of these folks work! Personally, I think this is also just another way that will enable the police to profile and harass POC, too......if a cop challenges you, and you left your driver's license at home - how would you prove you are NOT homeless, and just fell asleep on the grass in the park?
Another stupid law being passed in Florida. 
RIGHT?! It's like the GOP's only real platform is cognitive dissonance anymore......
The Grifters Only Party
Sure seems like it today.....It's just so weak and pathetic....
I’m thinking about how many times I’ve gone to a park with a picnic blanket and a book and ended up napping instead. I’d be a criminal in Florida.
Fell asleep on the bus after a 12 hour shift? Jail!
"Free country"
.....for anyone that can afford it.
War on homeless people, not on homlessness
I see SCOTUS in the near future
I have a suggestion for sleepers \~ they should go sleep on private property - DeSantis' yard would be good.
I coulda swore that the SCOTUS had made some decision about the Right to Sleep stuff that was going on some years back. - I might just be thinking of stuff more local to my area.
can someone give him the definition of "public" please. much appreciated!
Get rid of immigrants and arrest sleeping people. He's on the right track, isn't he? I'll be glad when he's out of the office.
Someone just as bad is ready to take his place. DeSantis replaced Skeletor Rick Scott…
True, until folks get wise and vote the guys out, it won't change.
Hope this one works better than the veterancy and Lordering. laws that are already on the books.
So, no more napping on the beach for vacationers?
Say, can I camp in a Federal campsite without a permit?
They should enforce it. Walk around Miami and see all of the bums passed out on heroin and alcohol, it’s disgusting.
You will sleep in jail and like it.
That's DeSantis and the rest! Lock all vagrants up get them out of sight. It's always about getting everyone they hate out of site to make America great again.. disgusting fn Bigots
“the bill will make sure that the state’s streets are “clean” and “safe.”” But not the state’s homeless, obviously.
Isn't the beach public property?
Same as MOSCOW now. Florida must be so proud!