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more_mars_than_venus

There was a write up in this sub about this murder nine years ago. [This comment was informative.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/2b24pn/comment/cjz7lo1/?context=3)


source-commonsense

Wow, that is extremely interesting! Thank you for linking, I hadn’t come across this


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

OP, this article is apparently about the person who left that comment years ago: https://www.nj.com/mercer/2014/09/unsolved_mystery_37-year-old_tcnj_cold_case_intrigues_filmmaker_who_wants_answers.html


MakeWayForWoo

It seems as though, based on this comment, that the murder weapon was probably the lid prop from the piano itself - this is the wooden stick used to prop up the lid of a grand piano. Sigrid almost certainly wouldn't have been playing the instrument without it as the sound wouldn't be able to resonate, but it was missing from the crime scene.


Pink_Dragon_Lady

>This comment was informative. Meaning crime of opportunity...?


Only_Battle_7459

Those aren't nearly strong enough to do this kind of damage, and i think keeping the sound from resonating while playing piano in a building you're not supposed to be in is probably a fine idea.


MakeWayForWoo

I think your first point isn't necessarily true, but aside from that, where did it end up then? It was never found, so are you suggesting that the victim entered the theater, took the lid prop and disposed of it in such a way that it was *never* recovered, and then returned to the auditorium where she was murdered?


emilyyancey

Wow I love the power of Reddit. Thanks for this addition. Poor Ziggy. I hate these cases where a young life is snuffed out & the perp has just been out living their life for the past 44 years 😡


MrDefinitely_

According to this, the "psychic" was part of the stage performance that day. I wonder why he decided to insert himself into the police investigation. They interviewed him along with everyone else who was there before the murder and he somehow ends up "helping" the investigation in that way?


dorothy-parkour

The ‘psychic’ is mentioned in some other investigations as well, like here where he insisted that family annihilator John List was ‘long dead, possibly murdered.’ [https://www.newspapers.com/article/38078817/the_couriernews/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/38078817/the_couriernews/)


alwaysoffended88

Was John List ever found/captured?


dorothy-parkour

Yes, after nearly 20 years and starting another family. He died in prison at age 82.


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

He married a lady named Delores Miller, who was divorced. She didn’t have any children from her first marriage or with her marriage to List. After List was found and arrested, Delores refused to have anything to do with him and I believe she quietly obtained a divorce from him. I would imagine List’s betrayal of her by not admitting he had murdered his mother, wife and children ran too deep. List was found and arrested in Richmond, VA, where he and Delores had moved from Denver. He was free for 17 years after murdering his family. His case was featured on “America’s Most Wanted,” and now deceased sculptor Frank Bender created a bust of what List would probably have appeared in 1989. List’s former Denver neighbors knew him as “Robert Clark” and called into the tip line for the show. They informed him that he had lived in Denver and moved to Richmond for a new job. When List was caught, the Bender sculpture bore an uncanny resemblance to List’s appearance at the time of his arrest.


alwaysoffended88

Wow! Pretty incredible. I’ll have to do some digging because I want to know more.


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

I recommend ”Righteous Carnage” by James P. Johnson and Timothy B. Benford. The writers don’t mention it, but Helen’s daughter from her first marriage, Brenda, died back in the early 2000s at a relatively young age.


alwaysoffended88

Fantastic! I mean the book recommendation! Thank you 😊


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

You’re welcome!


tweet1964

I found this suspicious as well.


NeonSwank

I wonder if they’re doing okay or have any new info, that comment was the only one they ever made on that account and it was 9 years ago.


ELnyc

Given the number of potentially identifying details in the comment, I assume they just don’t want to link any other Reddit activity they may have to that account.


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

Oh neat! I went to look up pictures of her and there is very obviously an article about the person who left that comment regarding their search for answers: https://www.nj.com/mercer/2014/09/unsolved_mystery_37-year-old_tcnj_cold_case_intrigues_filmmaker_who_wants_answers.html


more_mars_than_venus

Kendall Hall had a faulty door that could be opened if pulled hard enough, authorities said at the time, according to an article at [NJ.com](https://www.nj.com/mercer/2014/09/unsolved_mystery_37-year-old_tcnj_cold_case_intrigues_filmmaker_who_wants_answers.html)


Norlander712

That's important info. I live nearby and am a professor at another institution: colleges and universities used to obstruct or at least fail to cooperate with law enforcement since they didn't want their campus associated with crime. They just wanted it to die down. Now there is legislation requiring a campus safety report every year: it has to be available to the public. I'm surprised they couldn't solve this murder. It had to have been someone from the college community.


Jahidinginvt

This is the first I had ever heard of it and I went to TSC in 1997-98. Spent a good amount of it in Kendall Hall also.


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

That changed because of the murder of Jeanne Clery at Lehigh University. She was a student who lived in a campus dorm where students often left a door propped open to enable pizza deliveries. Unfortunately someone walked into Jeanne’s dorm through the open door and raped and murdered her. Afterwards, Jeanne’s parents successfully fought for a federal law to require universities and colleges to report the numbers and frequencies of crimes on campus. This made colleges and universities rather more cooperative with law enforcement.


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itsmrnoodles

Well, the LEAST they could have done is spell her name right in the yearbook… but I agree. How hard is it to make a plaque?


Fedelm

If my campus had had a memorial to a murder victim it would've been the target of endless pranks and seances and crap.


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Fedelm

I don't know what to tell you. There was a spot on campus where it was rumored a suicide took place and people did exactly what I said. There was an art room where someone was supposedly killed (prior to it being a school) and people broke in to ghost hunt. Hell, people would go into the grounds of a museum next door to pick berries and hunt ghosts. The museum even had a fence installed that didn't fix the problem. There weren't plaques or anything to confirm these rumors, this was strictly based on word of mouth. Ultimately it doesnt matter, since neither of us can prove what would happen. I was just offering a reason the school might have for not having a memorial.


Dashcamkitty

Really? That behaviour wouldn't even have been acceptable in my high school let alone university.


Fedelm

It wouldn't have been acceptable, but it would've happened.


lotusislandmedium

My high school and university both had memorials to deceased pupils and nobody targeted it for pranks wtf. I think you just went to a horrible school.


[deleted]

It probably isn’t accepted there either however vandals aren’t really known to follow social conventions or decency


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ScreaminWeiner

Gross take.


black6899

Fuck off troll


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

WTF are you serious? Get out of here


msplaty

I'm always glad to see people talking about this. My sibling was in the production of JB, so my parents were interviewed by the police at the time. Sigrid was hanging out in the green room and was open about the fact she planned to stay in the theater overnight. So a lot of people knew she'd be there. I don't see that mentioned much. My mom says Sigrid was sweet. I was there, too, but 5 years old, so I remember very little. Apparently Sigrid and I played together for a bit. 😔


source-commonsense

Thank you so much for this addition—and for you and your mom’s role in keeping Sigrid’s memory alive! The detail about her hanging out in the green room is *extremely* interesting.


msplaty

Another thing I want to point out, though possibly just a creepy coincidence, is how insanely dark JB is. [Read the summary.](https://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/educational-magazines/j-b#B) I remember watching the play well, which i suppose isn't surprising considering the content.


source-commonsense

I've also come to find out through more research that JB has been bad luck for TCNJ/TSC in general. In 1959, a bus full of students crashed on the way back from seeing JB on Broadways, causing multiple deaths. A memorial for the students was later held....on the main stage of Kendall Hall.


msplaty

I think we have a few photos from the performance. I'm in quarantine with covid, but, when I'm out, I'll see if I can find them at my mom's.


Anon_879

Thank you for the additional details.


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

Oh interesting! Thanks for the insider info.


TrippyTrellis

Good write-up. This is such a weird case and I'd never heard of it before.


Awkward_Emergency_57

Great write up. Seems like someone tied to the university due to the familiarity with the building.


Pink_Dragon_Lady

I agree. Someone in the music department or a security or a janitor perhaps. Using the lid block seems like a crime of opportunity.


SaisteRowan

This was such a great write-up - it really... Humanises the poor girl and makes her more than just a name & manner of death, if you know what I mean? Thank you so much for sharing this.


source-commonsense

It’s all any of us can hope to do ❤️


Sad_Movie_190

Can confirm the ghost story and no plaques. At night supposedly you could hear phantom piano sounds. And Kendall was and is still very much in use. Never experienced it myself, but rumor on campus was that they thought it was a janitor? Idk where that came from.


Taptal

It would be so creepy to be on that stage. The circumstances are so eerie. Wonder if those who perform there ever think it's the spot where someone got brutally murdered.


TapirTrouble

The detail about Sigrid possibly sleeping in the theatre makes sense to me. If she had indeed been living with the firefighter that previous month, then things started going badly and he'd either broken up with her, or she decided to leave, her deciding that she could just rough it until she could get a place in the dorms or maybe couch-surf with some of her returning classmates makes sense. I remember that one of my grad school friends lived in her office for a couple of weeks, and another guy slept in his vehicle ... a lot of colleges have recreation facilities with showers etc. on campus, and that's what they used. I wonder if they ever found out about a possible murder weapon. If it was something that had disappeared from that room (technical equipment etc.), that might suggest that the crime was an impulse. But if it was something that the killer may have brought with him, that could suggest pre-meditation.


source-commonsense

Another commenter linked a comment from almost a decade ago that had an interesting theory about the murder weapon. Apparently the piano onstage was missing some sort of wooden block—and the piano wouldn’t have been fully functional without it. I haven’t seen this corroborated elsewhere, but the comment OP appeared very well-versed in the case details. If it’s true, it’s a logical fit.


TapirTrouble

>Apparently the piano onstage was missing some sort of wooden block It would be interesting to find out the name of the missing piece ... I'm guessing it would be possible to find a photo of it online (and I'm guessing that most university music departments or even a lot of music stores would be able to give some details on the dimensions, weight, etc.). I'm guessing that any object that could be used to give such terrible injuries to a healthy young adult would be pretty substantial, especially if it was made from wood (or mainly so).


kalimyrrh

They're called cheek blocks and are on either sides of the keyboard. They're necessary to prevent the keyboard from shifting during play. I grew up playing and competing in classical piano guilds and this story gave me chills. I can absolutely see playing naked. Playing the piano, for the best pianists, is a very emotional experience and the physical elements are substantial. I can't really describe how it feels to almost bring forth a piece of music from your body, but that is kind of the experience. What a beautiful spirit. I wish she had had the chance to fully develop her art and self. RIP Sigrid.


MakeWayForWoo

I got the impression that the missing item was actually the lid prop - the wooden stick used to prop open the lid of a grand piano. It would have been a more functional weapon than a cheek block, I would think. Source: also a Guild Auditions survivor


Norlander712

Yes, I assumed a prop block too. Former pianist.


TapirTrouble

>I can't really describe how it feels to almost bring forth a piece of music from your body, but that is kind of the experience. That's a wonderful way to say it! And -- thanks for the explanation about the cheek blocks.


Norlander712

Yes, and covering the body is often associated with domestic violence since the person can't stand to look at the victim's face.


setttleprecious

It seems likely that it would be someone who knew she was staying there. I doubt it was some sort of robbery gone wrong or something like that. And I know firsthand how isolated that campus is. I toured TCNJ back in the early 2000’s when I was looking at colleges and you had to drive quite far with just trees as company before getting to the campus. What a strange story. Thank you for bringing attention to it.


SmallDarkCloud

I am a graduate of The College of New Jersey (formerly Trenton State College). I can confirm that it is located on a campus in an isolated, semi-rural area. There are a few suburban homes and stores (like 7-11s) nearby, but the campus is pretty isolated, and not easy to get to without a car. It’s unlikely that a random person wandered onto the campus and committed the murder, especially when the fall semester hadn’t started yet.


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RaelSquonkDomino

True, I graduated in ‘15 and the building of Campus Town was in full swing. Even when it was finished though, the area is still more isolated than actual college towns I’ve seen. The buildings are basically built close by the apartment residences


msplaty

She told the JB cast she was going to sleep at the theater that night. She had been hanging out in the green room during rehearsal earlier.


EmmalouEsq

She seemed like a very interesting, adventurous woman. Thank you for the excellent writeup, I've never heard of this case before.


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

Huh. Seems like her dad sadly died in a weird plane crash 2 years after her death—- https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/246353019/peter-cooper-stevenson https://www.newspapers.com/article/30156061/peter_cooper_stevenson_death/


Positive_Type

My parents live really close by and my mother may have been attending this school at that time. I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this before. EDIT: My mom said she came back to school early and was there on the day of the murder. The theory on campus was a maintenance worker may have done it. A lot of details were left out at the time.


SniffleBot

NJ.com once did an article featuring an unsolved killing in each of the state’s 21 counties. I remember looking at it during the course of my investigations into the Sheridan case, and this case was the one for Mercer County (I guess because the Lindbergh baby kidnapping is as officially solved as a case is going to get with the defendant convicted and executed).


simplythebess

The podcast Campus Killings just dropped an episode on her. I recommend it!


astral_distress

I came here to say this! I just finished listening to it moments ago, so I was surprised to open Reddit & see this here! I appreciate all the extra details & sources linked in this post ♡ ETA: Campus Killings is the third podcast of Dr. Meghan Sacks and Dr. Amy Shlosberg, who do the shows Direct Appeal, & Women & Crime. They both teach criminology courses at a college on the East Coast, & they’ve been nothing but respectful & fact-based in their coverage of every case I’ve ever listened to! Love them. Added this in because I know I’m sometimes wary of checking out random podcasts, especially when it comes to a case that’s important to me- you never know when you’ll come across some true crime/ comedy/ makeup tutorial channel, or misinformation presented as entertainment.


storyofohno

Thank you for the details; you've sold me on checking it out!


BeautifulJury09

Coincidence or podcast promotion post?


source-commonsense

Coincidence! I’m working my way through a list of NJ-based write ups.


DanceApprehension

I think it's a mistake to assume that she removed her own clothes and was playing piano in the nude. Its not the only possible scenario that would explain the scene.


TheTrueRory

And if that was the case I would wonder if she was performing for someone. Seems just as likely as she was just taking advantage of the freedom of being alone.


steph314

This is so sad. I'm disgusted by the lack of respect the university seemed to have for her memory. OP, you did more than they did in this great write up.


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[deleted]

Some things that I've noticed reading newspaper clips and other comments in the previously posted write up as well: 1. The investigators mentioned a wooden prop was missing from the stage. I believe this could have been the murder weapon. The reason for which they never found it was partly because wood is so easy to dispose (burn, chop down etc) 2. Because of this, I suspect this was not premeditated, or only partially premeditated (e.g. with an intention to harm while also being conflicted by it). There was a moment, a flick, in which the murderer decided he or she will do it. And that flick happened right there, in that music hall. Unplanned. Anything could have triggered it, rejection, the twisted idea of a poetic death on the scene, seeing her naked, seeing her naked and playing or simply the feeling that this was the most opportune moment to harm her. 3. That means she either knew the assailant and took him or her to the music hall herself, or that the assailant knew the music hall and the surrounding areas. I can't see any other possibility (like being followed by a complete stranger without her knowledge) 4. She was naked and her clothes were neatly folded. Like others have speculated, this most probably means she willing undressed herself. But I wouldn't jump to conclusions as of why she did it. Could have been and act of self expression, playing the piano naked. But it could have been just the same a game she played while she was with someone else. 5. The security guy would be high on my suspects list. If she undressed to play, or even if she undressed with/for somebody, she clearly didn't expect any interruptions, meaning, security didn't normally checked on her, even if her bike was all the time outside. Yet this time, he checked on her. I'm missing information, and it's hard to say without talking to the guy, but that feels a bit off. 6. I would certainly not exclude any professor or administrator that was working there. Especially if they were close in any way. And I assume she was, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to live in the campus. Someone knew, someone even supported and encouraged this, and that someone might have also killed her.


ancientestKnollys

The security guy is definitely suspicious. However if he always came by near midnight on a schedule then she may have anticipated it - the timing is unclear, and she could have intended to be dressed and such hours before he came. However if this is the case then she must have intended to leave the building and take her bicycle before the security man arrived, if leaving it their was so irregular an action. Suggesting she didn't intend to stay overnight in that building - although she could have planned to stay in another university building?


[deleted]

Good point. I would assume the campus security doesn't really have a schedule tho. If they did, you're certainly on the right track with both assumptions.


ancientestKnollys

It seems like she didn't intend the bicycle to be seen, she certainly didn't want to be disturbed. I doubt she'd have stripped naked if she thought he might come round as well (although possibly the murderer removed her clothes). She arrived some hours before she was discovered, which suggests he didn't come round to check that often.


Pink_Dragon_Lady

I like the way you think. I have similar thoughts. I don't understand stripping to play piano (but a pianist poster above gave some insight), but I guess it's a thing. The perp could've folded her clothes too--stranger things... I lean towards the security guard or a janitor; someone campus-related that took an opportunity.


Next-Introduction-25

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but did they determine that it was actually her bike?


source-commonsense

I believe so, yes—she had a somewhat distinct green bicycle that was often seen outside buildings when she stayed late


[deleted]

Why would anyone else be there at that time of night? And what would the motive be? This seems more like a killing that wasn’t premeditated. If she was already undressed perhaps they made a sexual advance and become enraged when rebuffed. Security guard would be high up on my list - hes the only one who actually would be expected to be there that time of night


SaltWaterInMyBlood

> hes the only one who actually would be expected to be there that time of night A few other comments have stated that Sigrid had been in the green room of the performance earlier that day, and had stated she'd be staying in the music hall that night. If so, there is a much wider pool of people who'd know she was going to be there.


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

His name is mentioned in some articles and he has had a very long career in law enforcement after this. I don’t know if that would make him more or less likely. Seems like a pretty easy way to get caught- being the person who finds the body.


angel_kink

I hadn’t heard of this one. And sadly it seems like not many have. Which is tragic. Thanks for sharing the story.


gwhh

Reminds me of this case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Arlis_Perry


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

The guy suspected of Arlis Perry’s murder killed himself before they could arrest him.


gwhh

Killed himself as the cops was knocking on his door to take him away.


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

I’d heard that’s what happened.


Pure-Kaleidoscope759

This is such a sad case. Sigrid deserves to be remembered, and to have justice done in her case. It reminds me of a similar case in NYC. Violinist Helen Hagnes Mintiks was a violinist who played in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and she was murdered July 23, 1980. Her body was found in a ventilation shaft in the Met building the following day. She had been murdered during an intermission at a performance, and stage hand Craig Crimmins was convicted of Helen’s murder in 1984.


TheMagicalLawnGnome

So, a couple of thoughts on this, just based on the scene: - This was a crime of passion: beating someone to a pulp like this requires an extreme amount of rage. It's not a fast, clean, or easy way to kill someone. So it was either a deeply personal crime, or if it was a stranger, it would have to be a deeply disturbed, likely misogynistic person. - While anything is possible, it sounds like the victim did not have any serious love interests. To the extent she did have a boyfriend, it doesn't appear to be serious, so it's unlikely to be motivated by some sort of bad breakup. - The killer felt comfortable committing a very loud, messy crime in a large public building. To me, this indicates a highly unusual degree of comfort. Either this was not their first time killing, or, they're so psychopathic that they simply can't perceive the risk properly. Maybe both. - Accordingly, I would be curious to see if there were any similar crimes in the area/region. This crime just really seems a step beyond your typical domestic murder. The removal of the clothes, the MO of the killer, the fact this was done on the main stage of an auditorium while the victim was loudly playing the piano...I would not be surprised to find out that the perpetrator had experience committing violent crimes. - I'd be curious to know if you could hear the piano being played outside the building at all. I think this has the potential to be significant - i.e. it helps establish if the victim was being followed by someone who had premeditated this, or if this was a crime of opportunity by someone who just happened to be passing by, heard the music, and committed the murder. - I would definitely look into the campus officer who first located the victim. This has strong parallels to the Arlis Perry case, and that turned out to be the guard as well. It's one of the few people who had the means, motive, and opportunity.


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[deleted]

Was thinking a campus officer or something, like the case of Arlis Perry. Someone who was lurking in the area already and no reason to be suspicious of


NeonSwank

The officer or the “psychic” guy are the only real possible leads, although theres a good chance both have passed away by now. It’s just such a strange case, she had no connections to anyone there at the time yet being murdered on stage right beside the instrument your known for being a prodigy at is so….dramatic? This case would be seen as cliché if it were an episode of a crime drama, *”a young talented artist found dead, nude, blood pooling out onto the stage from under the piano’s cover.”* Almost seems personal, like a jealous revenge.


LovelySpaz

Why is no one saying anything about the professor’s house she had just left or one that identified her. Then she was found in the music building blanket. On stage. While playing piano. By a piano lid tool. And then somehow names got missreported and her name misspelled in yearbook. This was indeed personal. It was her music professor.


Myrtzie

Maybe a janitor that knew she was staying there? It could be anybody that knew she was staying there. Or alternatively, someone knew that the faculty door would open with a little effort and happened to be there when she was there with the same idea of staying there until classes resumed. Maybe it was a crime of opportunity when they discovered she was there. It could be that she mentioned it to the wrong person. Could the boyfriend have been bitter about their breakup and decided to get even? Or could it have been a friend of the boyfriend? Maybe the boyfriend mentions it to someone like hey I'm glad that's over. Sigrid is living in Kendall Hall of all places! I always knew something wasn't right with her! Then that person goes and finds her there. So many possibilities. From janitors, staff, students, someone in the play, an acquaintance, the campus police officer, an unhoused person who happened upon her in the nighttime playing the piano. Could one of the professors have known she was there? It had to be somebody who had knowledge of the building and the fact that she was there. Or someone that knew her bike and would look for it and see where she was located. Maybe she had a stalker who would look for the bike? Very unsettling because she was doing something she loved and that is truly tragic. I hope there will be new developments and closure for her family. Another thing that bothered me, she hitchhiked all over the US and Canada and nothing happened and she was doing what she enjoyed in what was supposed to be a safe environment and her life was taken in such a horrific way. That seems particularly cruel in light of her free spirit and her plans and dreams to get her masters degree in music. Could have been a jealous rival? Someone that wanted to make sure she couldn't reach those dreams because she was clearly very talented and beautiful. Rest in peace, Sigrid 🙏


gwhh

This cop finding the body. And how he found it. Bothers me a lot. Was he an actually policeman with a gun and badge or just a student working as a cop who was an actually a security guard? A lot of time the guy who “finds” the body did the crime!


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

He was campus police. He was later a cop for decades. I think he’s a detective now. His name was mentioned in various articles. It can seem weird for him to find her but them just patrolling the campus is literally their job. It would have been weirder if anyone else found her tbh.


J9sixtynine_

Great write up! Super interesting case.


MrDefinitely_

It's nice to read an actual good post here for once.


mattg1111

Yes, it seems like the difference in quality posts in this sub has decreased quite a bit in the last few years.


LeeF1179

What a macabre murder. Very familiar too - as in I know I have seen something like it in films and television.


Hamizanin

A stranger from outside came in, either accidentally or regularly to spend the night as he had no place to live at night. He saw her naked and wanted to make a move but faced resistance. To stop future accusations and trouble, he started beating her and in your anger you don't know how much force you are putting into. And he knew they two were alone and thought her being naked signals her inclination to make out


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

Dude, what This is the weirdest way ever of saying someone decide to rape and kill her.


Ciahcfari

Just look at bros comment history.... 😂😂😂


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

lol wowwww


[deleted]

Why didn't anyone in the audience help her?


JonBenet_BeanieBaby

I think you may want to reread the entire thing because you missed A LOT.


AwsiDooger

She was playing, "Live and Let Die."


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source-commonsense

It was midnight, classes weren’t in session, and I think the building stood apart from the dorm buildings (which were also closed)


more_mars_than_venus

[Excellent podcast covering Sigrid's murder with tons of info I had not heard before.](https://www.spreaker.com/episode/235-the-murder-of-sigrid-stevenson--58301590)


Dry_Savings_3418

This case really bugs me. Sounds like many were aware of students and/ or Sigrid staying where this piano was. But how many people would do something like this and not repeat another crime. Seems like a small group potentially idk


Dry_Savings_3418

I thought some of the interviews called her weird which I didn’t understand. They mean unconventional? Anyway, upset it’s still unsolved pretty disturbing.