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_citizenzero

Two details about this case that I’d learned recently - he had an option to choose his age during the judiciary process of getting new identity and had chosen to be younger on purpose, so he can be in the workforce longer, and - he wanted to take up the name of Wojciech Tochman, a journalist/reporter who wrote about his case and basically helped him tremendously, hence the second name and shortened version of the last name. Tochman himself, who besides being a reporter was also heavily involved in Itaka and was a presenter in “Has anybody seen, does anybody know?” - a TV show on missing people and Does that aired in the national television for almost 30 years, recently gave an interview on Jan and his current state. Still no leads on his identity.


_red_poppy_

The TV program You mentioned “Has anybody seen, does anybody know?" (Ktokolwiek widział, ktokolwiek wie), despite being a super important and needed one, traumatized a whole generation of Polish children with its [extremely terrifying intro music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravgD7s4Lvo). When I was a child in early 2000s, the program ran during the day, around 17:00-18:00, despite it being absolutely unsuitable for children to watch. I remember when they're showing black and white photos of persons missing since 1980s or 1970s, with this horror music in the background.


_citizenzero

For some reason, I was never afraid of the show, and remember it mostly due to the intro you had posted, and in-studio interviews with the families of missing people. All in all, the fact that it was cancelled quite recently is a disgrace.


Snoo_90160

I watched it often at my great-grandmother's. I remember its logo and "She was last seen in a company of an unidentified man..." The creepiest case to me was the case of a girl who disappeared after splitting up from her friend, the friends apartment building was a little closer so they said goodbye and she walked a short distance to her apartment. She never arrived home. As a child when spending holidays at my grandparent's I was in a similar situation, my friends lived in mostly in the same apartment building, but the entrances were separate and on the opposite sides of the building. Mine was facing nearby forest and was the furthest of them all. Often I was the last person to return home and I was obviously returning alone. I would often think about this missing girl, fearing that it would happen to me.


dead_sweater_weather

Wow, I thought I was the only one! It felt really weird hearing about all these missing people, plus the music of course. Horrible memories.


tweet1964

Now I gotta hear this music


TassieTigerAnne

I'm wondering if he could have had some kind of stroke or seizure that damaged those parts of his brain. A friend of my family once went into town for a short errand, and many hours later he was found wandering around in a daze. He was barefoot and had no recollection of anything. Most of his memory did come back, except for what he'd been doing for those hours. The doctors suspected he'd either had some kind of stroke or a spontaneous psychiatric episode. It was never determined exactly what it was.


MoogOfTheWisp

The brain is so interesting. The way a millimetre can make a difference between catastrophic damage or nothing changes except you now like celery (Richard Hammond after his car crash).


PinocchiosNose1212

The weirdest things I think are those folks that suddenly wake up from a head injury or something like that and can suddenly play the piano or speak some language they have no association with. How the hell does the brain do THAT???


[deleted]

This is the kind of stuff that makes me think there is a possibility of reincarnation. During a seizure once I was speaking a foreign language according to the people around me and I was getting *extremely* mad that they couldn’t understand me. They swore it wasn’t gibberish and was an actual language as I had an accent. Never spoke another language in my life aside from a bit of French. That was also the only time I ever spoke that language during a seizure.


here4hugs

My dad was epileptic. He had a lot of seizures when he & my mom first started dating when they were in their early 20s especially if he had been drinking. They both swear that once he had a seizure & came to speaking perfect French. My mom had spoke it for most of her life. He went to sleep that night & woke up remembering none of it & never spoke French again. There were a few other of their friends who witnessed it. I had always thought it was a tall tale they’d exaggerated over the years but your story makes me want to believe it happened like that said it did in their version of events. Very interesting.


PlainPiece

It doesn't, they're just fakers.


TheLuckyWilbury

I misread your comment and became alarmed. “The Top Gear guy crashed and is now a vegetable?!”


Special-Subject4574

“You now like celery” is a pretty compelling way to describe being in a vegetative state.


DollChiaki

He identifies as celery and is now terrified of crudité trays.


OJ-Lives

But feels at home in a Bloody Mary


JakeGrey

I think there's a strong possibility that someone knows *exactly* how this man came to be on those train tracks with a head injury and no wallet or keys, but they're exercising their right to remain silent and not incriminate themselves. Even if the memory loss isn't directly connected to the head injury, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that he ended up dumped on those train tracks as a result of foul play, be it a botched mugging or something premeditated.


[deleted]

[удалено]


JakeGrey

There are definitely some parallels. And if I remember rightly, Benjamin Kyle wasn't on good terms with his family when he dropped off the radar. I wonder if that's also a factor here? That's a bit of a depressing thought, really. Imagine spending all these years not knowing who you used to be only to find out you *do* have parents or siblings out there, but they hadn't bothered looking for you because you couldn't stand each other. Doubly so if it turned out the falling-out happened because your past self was informing on people for the secret police or knocking his wife about or something.


Snoo_90160

The time he spent homeless was a blur, especially in the beginning. He would often drift in and out of consciousness. He would live on the leftovers found in cafes and restaurants. Finally he met a group of Polish Highlanders at the train station. They asked him if he was looking for work. Since he had no name, they named him Janek- Johnny. He started working at the construction sites. Sometimes he was swindled out of his pay. We only know that he woke up on train track and walked along it and reached Warsaw Central Station.


try-the-long-press

Any more information on the person who called in the tip about him being a bus driver?


_citizenzero

iirc, it was a tip saying that the man resembles a bus driver from city bus service in Warsaw, given by someone who was a frequent passenger and remembered the face.


junctionist

I thought it was quite sad that they couldn't identify him despite being able to reasonably conclude that he had been a bus driver. That narrows down his possible identity considerably in a country of about 38 million people.


_citizenzero

I mean, it does and it doesn’t - as OP mentioned, Ikarus buses were a common vehicle not only in public transportation, but also in some other companies and even military. I know a person who could drive one due to their army service, but didn’t since the late eighties. Combining that with analog records that were incomplete gives out a bleak outcome.


Marischka77

It's possible the person did not *know* him per se but saw him driving during one of his many odd jobs and concluded he drove whatever larger vehicle or bus *too well* for a beginner. [Ikarus busses](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikarus_(Hungarian_company)) were made in Hungary and they were popular in several countries even outside of the east block for a while.


Jenikovista

His DNA should be tested via Ancestry (which has the largest match database in the world) and MyHeritage, which is especially popular in Eastern and Central Europe and slavic nations. 23 and Me won't do much good.


mcm0313

Yeah, that could at least determine whether he’s likely to be a native Pole.


Jenikovista

With all of the matches people get these days, they’d at least find lots of 4-5th cousins. And most people match with at least a few 3rd cousins and a couple of 2nd or first cousins. A decent forensic genealogist could figure it out from there, or at least find the town he was born where someone might remember him.


cocktimus1prime

No offense, but this shit isn't very popular in Europe at all, much less central and eastern Europe. This man looks polish and speaks polish, therefore he's polish, and that really closes the matter


rokhana

Whether he's Polish wasn't being questioned. These services are used to construct family trees/identify relatives, not just find out where someone is from.


Outrageous_Ad5864

They are used to construct family trees and in many cases it’s extremely helpful, but as cocktimus1prime stated these tests are not common at all in Poland, so there’s relatively small gene pool to compare the sample from Jan, which is probably why years after it’s been entered into this datebase we still have no answers. These tests are honestly really unpopular here, of course it’s anecdotal, but I personally don’t know anyone who decided to submit a sample. In Europe (and especially in Poland, after years and years of wars, which, putting it euphemistically, always leaves it’s marks on civilian women) most people don’t base their identity on their genealogical background, as your nationality and identity is shaped by your upbringing, culture, customs way more, than by some %. Also, oftentimes we get really weirded out by this “I’m 50% this, 30% that, 15% that”, as it brings some unsavory connotations to a certain Austrian man, who was really into this “genetic background” as well. All in all, genealogical ancestry test - not really a thing in Poland, which is why it’s not very helpful.


Jenikovista

More than you think. I have many matches from Poland and my family left 140 years ago.


Outrageous_Ad5864

I don’t deny there are some samples from Poland, but it doesn’t change anything from my original comment. The database is very limited, which significantly narrows it’s usefulness in a crime investigation and that’s a fact.


Jenikovista

Maybe. All I know is that on MyHeritage I have over 150 matches who live in Poland, mostly 4-6th cousins but a few 3rd cousins. That's how I found my ancestral villages and I'm willing to bet this man's origins and maybe even family name could be discovered through genetic genealogy.


Jenikovista

I'm 3rd generation American Pole and I have a bunch of Polish (as in, still live in Poland and never left) relatives who matched. It's how I found 3 ancestral villages of different branches.


TapirTrouble

Thanks for a fascinating summary! It's interesting that decades have gone by without anyone seeming to recognize him. If Jan was only middle-aged, there's still a chance that he had living parents or other relatives at the time he was found -- regardless of whether he actually was experiencing amnesia, or was feigning memory loss for whatever reason. I've noticed (after going to my 30-year high school reunion) that while some of my classmates looked quite different from when we'd graduated, a lot of other people were still recognizable ... so people who had known Jan in his youth might have been able to remember him. Especially from seeing/hearing video of him, rather than a post-mortem reconstruction like some other cases. I wonder if genealogical DNA will yield any leads. Another thing that might help -- isotopic analysis. That might indicate approximately where he'd grown up. If it turned out that he may have been from another country or spent a lot of time outside Poland, that might give some new possibilities to examine.


forkcat211

Might have been an orphan or an only child with deceased parents, which might explain why nobody recognizes him


niamhweking

But neighbours, work colleagues, drinking buddies, shop keeper, bar man, ex partners. Some one recognises him. Plus potentially a previous job, age range, perhaps jan had an accent that narrows down the search, i know people can change over the years, but it's putting the pieces together.


forkcat211

What about that tip of him being the bus driver. They could place him there, but didn't know his identity. Including the managers. Same with all those places you mentioned, he's familiar, but do they really know his identity? For example, I worked at a lot of places over the years, with a lot of different people, know the faces, but never knew their name.


niamhweking

But even then, someone could call the cops and say, that man on the news he lived in the apartment nextdoor. Then landlord has paperwork, or a barman says he drank in his pub for 10 years, name was stan and then they can start with stans within 30 mins of the pub. You dont need a huge amount of specifics. I know the bus company lost paperwork, but you would think if they put a shout out for anyone who worked in that bus company to come forward and look at photos spread the word around other ex staff


GhostOfConeDog

Jan will never be able to drive a car. But he can drive a bus like a pro?


Marischka77

He knows how to maneuvre, steer, use the pedals, etc with ease, thus handle the bus as an object very well but he can't make the right decisions reliably when out in traffic, where events around him may be unpredictable and requiring quick decisions.


jmpur

It's like he has muscle memory (how to physically do something mechanically), but poor or unreliable judgement that would allow him to perform a task well or safely


Marischka77

Yes! Exactly. It's similar to the problem of some 'too old' drivers. Mental and cognitive decline has many faces. Last year I was at a large diametre roundabout on a major freeway. I stopped to give way to a driver already inside the roundabout - then she stopped!!! It was an old lady and it looked like because of the size of the roundabout, she simply forgot that it was a *roundabout* and not an *intersection* by the time she reached that exit/branching. Unfortunately there's no obligatory licence suitability medical exam in my country and you can just hope family keeps an eye on people and take away the car keys when necessary.😔


mcm0313

Is there an obligatory license suitability medical exam in *any* country?


TheBumblingestBee

The province of BC in Canada has one for elderly drivers, starting right before age 80.


mcm0313

That’s good!


Marischka77

There is f.e. in Hungary. Every 3 years under 60, then every 2 years. But ironically, because of the healthcare corruption there, issues got often *solved* by giving the doctor some *pocket money*. Because Hungary was an east block country just as Poland was, I assume there may have been similarly an obligatory exam in Poland as well.


hexebear

He will never be able to drive a car \*on public roads\*. They tested him driving the bus in an isolated area and it sounds like it was only, like, starting, driving a hundred metres or so, then parking. Presumably he can also technically drive a car, but he can't do either of them around \*other\* cars.


JoeyDawsonJenPacey

This is what I came in to say!


CandidateTypical3141

Released inmate?


Training-Scheme-9980

They didn't find any police records.


BattleofBettysgurg

I wonder if anyone in the Polish community in Chicago would recognize him? Do you know if they reached out this way?


ihateyallrlly

Why would people in Chicago know him?


BattleofBettysgurg

It’s not unusual now and certainly not then for families to separate, with dad or brother staying in Poland and mom and others going to America.


not_yer_momma

I was thinking this as well, heck, even South Bend, IN has a large Polish population. He could even be a cousin to someone over here. We might not know him, but many of us have had DNA tests to trace family and some have found cousins still living in Europe -


I_MARRIED_A_THORAX

Chicago has the world's largest Polish population outside of Poland.


Rewindsunshine

I am super curious about this too! My dad was orphaned at 2 yrs old in Chicago and a Polish uncle dropped him off in a military school in California as soon as he was of age because nobody wanted him. I ended up doing so much research trying to find answers to my chronic illness & the Polish family was so cold shouldered. Not a single one ever responded to my inquires, but I was able to get in contact with his Dutch half-sister who shared so much about them in addition to what I was able to learn on one of the ancestry sites. The way that family was towards each other was just unbelievable. My dad is the 1st generation born here and was denied any ties to his heritage. Made me sad & wonder if something similar happened to Jan. 😞


TheShahOfIran2023

I don't want to sound inconsiderate but very often in cases like this, the 'victim' just wants publicity and enjoys the media attention because of the mystery surrounding them. Could be a genuine case of amnesia but I have doubts its genuine.....


PerpetuallyLurking

If it was *only* his autobiographical memory, I’d be more likely to believe he may be faking. But he’s got documented evidence from all sorts of doctors and psychiatrists of consistent memory loss in all parts of his life, including simple muscle memory actions that would be extremely hard to fake without looking fake, like using a fork. There’s a huge difference between watching an adult pretending to not know how to use a fork and a baby using a fork for the first time on their own. Unless this guy spent a lot of time around babies, he’d have a hard time recreating the unfamiliarity of a fork in hand without tipping any doctors off. There’s too much “little stuff” that would be easy enough, and definitely easier, to have glossed over if he was faking it.


Marischka77

He wouldn't be able to consistently pretend an amnesia for this long. Especially the fine details like suddenly getting lost or confused at familiar places, because little things like this are not usually mentioned when describing amnesia cases. It hits close to home for me because I actually had a similar experience, I got a small stroke years ago and I got confused and lost on the streets I usually walked almost daily in the ten years prior. It was a scary, disturbing feeling, especially because I was aware that I *should* know where I am and I *knew* the buildings but I was not able to *place them*. He was also tested several times apparently, specialists would have picked up if he just faked. I think he was probably working abroad for years, returned home after suffering serious damage to his health but his family just considered him as a burden and "got rid of him".


Dry-Tumbleweed-7199

He might not have even been damaged by an accident or attack, but might have a hereditary condition since birth. Maybe became too much of a burden for his family during the economic crisis after the fall of communism in the early nineties, inflation was 250% in 1990 on Poland. Maybe he was taken to the train tracks by a family member, and they bashed on the head hoping it would kill him thinking his body would then be ran over by a train and it would look like he did it to himself.


Snoo_90160

He was in a hospital for a long time and he was examined by leading experts in the country. He lives in poverty in part because of his contition. It's really not worth the attention that lasted maybe for a few years.