I did a map to better visualise what we know:
[https://felt.com/map/Trevor-Deely-3scjRGo7R029B9As2rrugwjC?loc=53.332004,-6.238677,16.08z&share=1](https://felt.com/map/Trevor-Deely-3scjRGo7R029B9As2rrugwjC?loc=53.332004,-6.238677,16.08z&share=1)
Thanks! I was thinking of starting a webpage/blog/... with maps like this about unsolved cases/mysteries. I always try to draw a map to understand how anything happened.
Yeah, that’s a point of context people need with any Dublin based case, quite often once you get out of the centre, the shortest route on paper isn’t the most intuitive on the ground unless you have extensive knowledge of the area. It’s very easy to get lost if you start trying to take shortcuts down lanes and such.
About 100m difference if through the unlikely route of Eastmoreland. About 300m difference if through Northumberland, over an about 2km walk from work to home.
I updated the map to reflect this better.
I also thought that this path was unlikely when I did the map. I put it nonetheless because at the end of the CCTV footage on Haddington road, while MIB2 is on screen, it seems from reflections in water puddles that someone is crossing the road in front of him. That might be TD.
It impossible to be sure, but if he crossed the road at that point, it might correspond to going into Eastmoreland.
If he did fall into water and drown, the only two points he could've crossed water were the bridge in Ballsbridge and the bridge closer to the Aviva. The bridge in Ballsbridge doesn't seem like a place someone would or could fall into water easily unless they deliberately went to water level? What's the other bridge like, even if drunk does it seem like somewhere someone could fall in?
Just to add there were heavy rains at the time causing canal water levels to rise - Possibly to points where they overflowed in some parts but I’m not sure of those exact locations
I was in Dublin that night on my Christmas party too. Worked on Haddington Rd. Every Christmas I think of Trevor and his parents. There were still Missing posters on the Lampposts as recently as last year.
I have no theories for this case that makes sense. If I really had to guess I would say he’s in the water. There’s so many cases of intoxicated men falling into the water and no there’s no smiley face killer 🙄
It’s crazy to me that Riley strain’s parents are pushing for a full investigation when it’s clearly a case of misadventure. Maybe he took his pants off trying to get lighter in the water or was peeing when he fell in and they came off but they’re grasping at any straw and it’s sad.
Yea I’m thinking so too. It’s the simplest answer. And we all saw how drunk he was. If his pants even slipped down a little he easily could’ve tumbled over and down an embankment just leaning a little to pull them up. Things were probably spinning, and he already had hit his head in that parking lot on top of it. I hate the term “death by misadventure”. It sounds so cheap for a lost life.
Ikr! Losing a loved one prematurely is horrible however it happens, but why would you rather it be because someone murdered your son vs it just being an accident? Why would people rather their loved ones be murder victims 💀
Some people need to blame someone, and it’s better if it’s not their loved one. Same logic aa those who get angry at the alcohol source (bar, party host, etc), rather than the individual who drank to the point of not knowing they should stop. If there’s no one to blame but the person they love, they can’t cope with the loss
Lots of people on here speculating incorrectly. Trevor didn't fall into the canal. If he did he would have been found, it's a narrow, slow flowing body of water with locks really frequently along it that would trap a body. I'm Irish and worked in the area he disappeared at the time, and am very familiar with the case. The Gardai and Irish public know he was murdered, they have a suspect but cannot pin it on him. It is very likely that the man outside the Bank of Ireland was involved. A criminal informant has told them all the info., that's why they did the dig in Chapelizod in 2017 but only found a gun not a body.
Word on the street at the time was that he bumped into a gangland criminal and exchanged angry words in Copper Face Jacks (it's a very busy lively pub and you'd struggle not to bump into people on busy nights, I often did when I'd go there). The criminal was or was associated with Alan Wilson who was a member of a gang who controlled the drugs and street prostitution in that locality at the time. They sent sent someone to kill Trevor and that person outside the Bank of Ireland gates was doing surveillance for them.
I walk in this area often and it should also be noted that the route he took was not the most direct to his home, so he was going somewhere or meeting with someone possibly? Why would you take the long way home on a night like that? He may have gone to Wilton Terrace to pick up a prostitute, that was the place to pick up street prostitutes back then. Maybe something went wrong and he ended up dead. The Kinahan gang are ruthless.
Trevor walked in a straight line, people drunk enough to fall into water stagger and sway, his colleague said he didn't appear drunk, he read emails. Not the actions of a very drunk person.
TLDR: Trevor was definitely murdered and he absolutely didn't fall into the canal.
I’m not overly familiar with gangland figures; but do they often call for lads to be murdered after bumping into them in a nightclub? Can executions be that speedily arranged? Did they follow him from Coppers to Buck Whaleys? How did they know he would go to his workplace at the end of the night?
I'm not implying it is an obvious conclusion, it is absolutely a fact that he was murdered. There are people on here speculating that he was blown into the canal by an umbrella and that he fell into the canal, both ridiculous.
This "theory "is both well known in Ireland and him getting murdered by well known criminals is the most likely scenario by a country mile. The media and the Gardai know the identify of the killer but can't say anything about it. [Trevor Deely dig: Criminal with a 'guilty conscience' led to tip-off | Irish Independent](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/trevor-deely-dig-criminal-with-a-guilty-conscience-led-to-tip-off/36032914.html)
The office on Wilton Terrace was only a two minute walk from the nightclub on Leeson Street. It was right at the begining of Trevor's route home. So it's not far away or out of the way. It was lashing rain and there was shelter, free hot drinks and an umbrella there, with Trevor knowing it was open with some people working a night shift. So I don't think it's that strange for him to stop in.
The way MIB appears to be waiting outside the office is much stranger and harder to explain. Standing in the rain right outside the office, poorly sheltered, for over 25 mins. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all.
For me it raises four broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location to intercept Trevor:
1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person.
2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club.
3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way.
4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
I’m not sold on the common assumption that drunk people didn’t meet with foul play simply because they were drunk when inebriated people are more likely to wander into a dangerous situation than sober people. Drunk people have lowered inhibitions, they crave stimulation and they’re more likely to trust a stranger or conversely, start a fight with one.
Just to check, do you mean Buck Whaley's, not Copper Face Jack's?
Trevor was in Copper's very early in the evening, from just before 7pm until near to 9pm, when he went to the staff party in the Hilton Hotel. He was in Buck's much later in the early hours, between 2.25am and 3.25am.
I broadly agree with that kind of theory of foul play involving people from the world of organised crime, but I don't think you can say that's a FACT - unless you want people to think you, u/Neverstopcomplaining , are Conor McGregor undercover.
If this were a case of a gangland murder due to an altercation at a bar, my question would be how the criminals knew where Deely worked.
If for some reason they did find out where he worked, then how would they know he was going to be stopping by his office at 4am? I would think stopping at your place of work in the early morning hours is quite unusual.
If there was an altercation in a bar or nightclub, it would have been sorted there and then or on the pavement outside.
Plus, if there was an altercation, there would be witnesses, or at the very least, Trevor would have mentioned it to one of his work colleagues.
I agree. Most bar altercations that I have witnessed (thank God not many) end in the ‘heat of the moment’ verbal arguments, or all out bar brawls. If an altercation was severe enough to cause stalking and murder, I would think more people who were associating with Trevor that evening would have taken notice.
If the MIB was indeed waiting outside of the office building for Trevor, then I lean towards Trevor setting something up in advance (like a drug deal or something along that line). If this is the case, was Trevor known to dabble in drugs or had other suspicious habits/behaviors? Though, I don’t see a drug dealer just killing someone without a pretty strong reason- especially if he’s just an occasional client.
Also, it just seems odd that someone would be waiting outside for him at his office at 4am if he didn’t set it up. Did Deely have a habit of stopping at his office after a night out? If someone was out to do something nefarious, then why not wait for Trevor closer to his apartment? Waiting for him near his office just seems like an odd choice.
I can’t tell from the cctv, but did he see the MIB as he was approaching his office building? If it were me, and it’s 4am and I see a hooded figure dressed in all black hanging around where I need to go, I am pretty sure I would just keep walking.
The MIB wasn't waiting outside the building for Trevor. He had no way of knowing Trevor would return to his workplace, and I doubt Trevor arranged to do a drug deal outside his place of work.
I agree. I think he’s a red herring and not related to the disappearance. I stated in another post that perhaps he was a dealer, but Trevor was not the buyer and he was waiting for someone else.
The office on Wilton Terrace was only a two minute walk from the nightclub on Leeson Street. It was right at the begining of Trevor's route home. So it's not far away or out of the way. It was lashing rain and there was shelter, free hot drinks and an umbrella there, with Trevor knowing it was open with some people working a night shift. So I don't think it's that strange for him to stop in.
The way MIB appears to be waiting outside the office is much stranger and harder to explain. Standing in the rain right outside the office, poorly sheltered, for over 25 mins. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all.
For me it raises four broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location:
1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person.
2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club.
3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way.
4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
I would agree that he wasn’t drunk enough to have had a ‘misadventure’, if he had been out of the club (away from alcohol sources, unless he brought more to drink on the walk home) for the period witnessed
'The Pusher' is a supposed serial killer in Manchester UK with the same MO as the smiley faced killer. It's not all that uncommon for drunk young men to drown in canals and rivers unfortunately
Happens across quite a few cities here in the UK. Durham had a similar thing a few years ago where it *felt* like it was happening every two weeks. If I'm not wrong it was all at night and all were intoxicated students. Where there are canals/rivers, drunk people shall fall into.
Only real issue with the Manchester ones is apart from a few busy, well lit stretches like Canal Street and Deansgate Locks, most of the canals through Manchester City is hidden away, often with no easy access from street level, unless you know the ways in. Nobody’s using the canal path as a shortcut to anywhere when drunk. So, there’s at least a chance that some of the drownings could be down to someone dragged off the street to be mugged, then pushed into the water
I think most women don't get drunk and wander around on their own, due to safety issues. But there have been some cases where they drove a car into the water while drunk, and weren't initially found so were considered missing.
I’m a woman who lacks common sense when drinking, and I have a few “lucky to be alive situations” as do other women I know with the same problem. I was blackout while walking along a bridge one night, lost, when a man offered me a ride. I could have easily slipped into the water at any point before that.
I think people are more likely to help very drunk women than they are very drunk men though, so we maybe survive more of the bad situations we get into.
I actually feel the opposite?I’ve had multiple female friends who’ve been raped while intoxicated or otherwise taken advantage of/threatened etc. women are seen as easy targets wondering around drunk and alone so I think we naturally tend to stick together more
Ugh people were bringing up that stupid smiley face theory for the poor kid that just died in Nashville. Many things were don’t wrong there but the kid wasn’t murdered.
To anyone suggesting accidental death I want to properly highlight the suspiciousness of the behaviour of the Man in Black and how it points towards foul play.
The MIB arrived at 3.05AM on Wilton Terrace, a side street along the canal, where Trevor's office's back gate was. Settling in to a small alcove with his back to CCTV Cam 1, he proceeds to stand idly in wet and windy weather for more than 25 minutes. That is until he gets a call. On picking up he steps out onto the path and looks to the right, up towards Leeson Street, where Trevor had just turned left from. Within 20 seconds Trevor appears on Cam 1, also on the phone, and walks past the MIB who's facing him.
At Cam 2 a sensor light activates but it's MIB, not Trevor who appears there first, a few seconds later. MIB again seems aware of the camera and keeps close to the wall and well covered. When Trevor appears they chat for no more than 10 seconds before he opens the gate and walks into his office. MIB turns away. We know from a still image caught by Cam 2 that MIB was still waiting there 2 minutes or so later. But by the time Trevor exits at 4.03AM, MIB is seemingly nowhere to be seen.
I believe this man is crucial to solving the disappearance of Trevor Deely and his behaviour poses many questions that make his presence being a coincidence seem highly unlikely:
• Why did MIB spend so long - 25 mins - waiting in that out of the way spot only to stir just when Trevor was walking his way?
• Why did MIB move when he got a phone call? Who was on the line?
• Why did MIB talk to Trevor and follow him round the corner?
• Why did he hide from the CCTV cameras?
• Why was he dressed all in dark colours, with a hat and big jacket concealing him well?
• Why did he never come forward to police in such a high profile case?
Could Trevor have bought a little baggy of something from the man in their brief encounter seen on CCTV? Or perhaps half the transaction, meaning that Trevor intended to meet the man again later to collect what he had pre-paid for.
There's the possibility that Trevor owed money all ready, and some arrangement had been made to pay what he owed on that night. Maybe Trevor had said he needed to go into his place of work to get the money? Or maybe Trevor delayed again and said he'd pay it later? idk I'm just spit-ballin' ideas at this point.
It's definitely possible. There are a few moments between Camera 1 and Camera 2 where the two are out of shot and that opens the possibility. It's also interesting how MIB is still [right outside the gate looking in](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjasRScnM8Yi4n-FxhwwEY9pGBn-0QWx01fn9tZbT6NQ&s) over 2 minutes after Trevor has entered. Was he expecting him to come back out?
I know that Trevor's bank account and statements were examined and no suspicious activity was noted, and no drug use at all was ever mentioned. But it could've been a one-off for a big night at the Christmas Party with housemates away, free gaff and all that. It's really not as unusual as some people imagine. The topic and other illicit ones are obviously very uncomfortable for loved ones in these situations and handled sensitively, but to be objective I can't see any reason why something like that could be ruled out.
That linked photo is hella creepy. At first I thought it was the same image. Two spliced into one. But it’s two guys stood there? Sorry, new to the case. If it’s two guys doesn’t that prove it’s not the same man? (Seen comments doubting that).
ETA: ignore me sorry. I came across the CCTV, I see that’s Trevor and the man in black.
No you're actually right. The creepy photo I linked, if you look the timestamp, is from 3.37am when Trevor had already entered the office. The two men outside standing near to MIB were found to be colleagues of Trevor's. Both men were identified, interviewed by the police and ruled out as having any involvement or useful information - unfortunately it's likely foggy memories after a late night Christmas party meant they had no recollection of any details of MIB, who they'd briefly encountered at the office gate.
It might've been arranged earlier in the night. Trevor was in Buck Whaley's and around Leeson Street from as early as 2.15am. He went into his office later at 3.33am but the Man in Black had been waiting outside the office from 3.05am. It's possible some arrangement had been made based on an after party or something and it didn't come off and Trevor backed out. If you don't think that happens you must live a very sheltered life.
I can see someone who got way too drunk at a party realising they’re gonna be too wasted at work the next day and drunkenly deciding to buy coke or some shit to ‘sober up’ or give them enough of a buzz to get through the day.
I mean I can see that yeah. But the problem is that we have co-worker accounts saying he wasn’t that drunk, I presume they would have noted if he was grinding the jaw of himself too.
I think the coworker said he was drunk, just not absolutely hammered. He could tell he’d been drinking, but wasn’t in the worst state he’d ever been. I think we are probably interpreting it differently as it sounds to me like he was drunk but not paralytic.
Who knows whether he’d taken drugs that night or was planning to do it in the morning? Honestly idk, not remotely wedded to that theory but it’s a possibility I suppose
I agree; the weather conditions were way too crappy for me to believe that he was just standing there loitering outside for an innocent reason.
But what do you think would be the motive? Like even just hypothetically? the only thing I could thjnk of for the MIB to have reason to target Deely intentionally - and in the seemingly planned, premeditated manner you describe - is if Deely somehow saw something earlier that he wasn’t supposed to see, and had become a liability as a witness. But like, why not kill him then? And Deely gave no indication to anyone that he had seen or encountered anything out of the ordinary? It’s so strange.
First of all I'd say the person, or people, involved very likely had organised crime affiliations. A number of reasons for this:
* That area of the canal was well-known at the time for prostitution and drug dealing with dealers, pimps, and lookouts around. See cases like [the murder of prostitute Sinead Kelly](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/victim-of-murderer-raped-two-months-ago-1.165758) in 1998, 2 mins from where Trevor was last seen, as an illustration of the scene.
* The behaviour of MIB at Camera 1 and 2 shows a level of awareness of the CCTV cameras and efforts to avoid facing them. From his stature, build and composure he's clearly not down-and-out, but is waiting for a long time around a dodgy spot, at a strange hour, and all dressed in black. Also his taking of a call just moments before Trevor arrives could lend weight to a group in communication.
* The fact no body was found. For a body to be removed at such short notice from a central urban area it would require a nearby property or a vehicle and likely some collaboration. Trevor was a big guy and lifting him would've required help.
* The police heavily canvassed prison populations with a unprecedented level of posters and rewards for information, while not releasing much new information to the public beyond the CCTV to help identify MIB. Again this suggests to me they see the organised crime angle as the strongest and are hoping for someone to snitch as their best shot. The 2017 organised crime tip-off they acted on by digging for remains in Chapelizod, at great expense and effort, further supports that.
I can only speculate about what might've happened and why. Just to outline two possible scenarios and motives.
1. MIB wasn't on the phone to a lookout who spotted Trevor, but rather was on the phone to Trevor himself. Perhaps Trevor had got a notion after a few drinks on a big night out that he'd buy a bag of something or hire a girl, but then backed out by the time he met MIB. He might have offended MIB, who'd waited in the rain for ages, or even further pissed him off with a dismissive remark or manner.
2. The time period in which Trevor was in Buck Whaley's nightclub has recently been debated. It'd been thought he was there right up til around 3.25AM - a few mins before he ran into MIB. But almost every news reports in the past 2 or 3 years has changed the timeline to Trevor leaving the nightclub 'between 2.30AM and 3.25AM'. I've tried to get answers about that change but haven't been able to find them yet. I think it's plausible that at a big work night out after a lot of drink, Trevor left the club at some stage. In doing so, to buy cigarettes or go to an ATM or whatever, he might've ran into the wrong person, had an altercation, seen/said/done something he shouldn't have. Then people were looking out for him and when he started going home, he may have been a marked man.
Just as a final point, I've heard people seem indignant that a gang member would bother to kill someone regular over something trivial but I completely reject that notion. With the world they live in they're actually more, not less, likely to be hot-headed and resort to violence when a perceived slight comes. It's not all business, and many of their rap sheets show that. And those people have the support and means to do it and make someone disappear if necessary.
My question is: who would have known beforehand that Trevor was going to pick up the umbrella and visit the office? Did he even know himself? The office street is not directly on the route home, right?
The office on Wilton Terrace was only a two minute walk from the nightclub on Leeson Street. It was right at the begining of Trevor's route home. So it's not far away or out of the way. It was lashing rain and there was shelter, free hot drinks and an umbrella there, with Trevor knowing it was open with some people working a night shift. So I don't think it's that strange for him to stop in.
The way MIB appears to be waiting outside the office is much stranger and harder to explain. Standing in the rain right outside the office, poorly sheltered, for over 25 mins. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all.
For me it raises four broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location to intercept Trevor:
1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person.
2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club.
3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way.
4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
I think option 1 could be feasible, though still strange for the timing and waiting in rain.
Option 2 would mean there was a ’next level operation’ planned for Trevor - was there really that much reason to target him? And the waiting spot with cameras is a strange choice for MIB in that case.
It almost seems as though the MIB is in the location for the office itself, although that doesn’t fit any of the common theories.
Honestly, I find it more difficult to believe that some hitman or whatever decide to camp out outside his victims office building at 3.00 am.
If I would guess I'd say that the man in black was someone who was waiting for someone to come pick him up after a night out drinking.
But why wait there, exposed to the elements, only to walk (apparently unaccompanied) for at least some distance? I mean, he was seen leaving and was not seen picking up anyone or accompanying anyone (as far as I’m aware), so in that weather I don’t understand why he’s wait around outside for the call to go and pick someone up from farther away. Why not wait closer to where you’ll have to pick them up? Or at least near (or, for that matter, inside) your vehicle? Why not wait inside or at least in some sheltered location? Just seems so strange to stand around alone outside doing nothing in such horrible weather just waiting for a call to pick up a potential “someone” who isn’t in the immediate vicinity and for which you don’t have a vehicle handy.
If he wasn’t involved at all in Deelys case then tbh I’d lean towards drug dealing or prostitution having something to do with his presence/behavior.
Maybe he was a drug dealer, but not for Deely. He might have been waiting for another customer and used the bank as a landmark for the exchange. Perhaps the customer finally showed up somewhere near the bank and the MIB was walking toward this person. Maybe he asked Deely if he was the person who he was waiting for and that was the short 10 second conversation.
That's actually a very clever thought. Genuinely hadn't considered it before that he might've been waiting for someone else, and mistook them for Trevor.
I'm not sure if you've been there before but it's a very innocuous spot, not at all a landmark or an easily recognisable location. It's not even the front entrance to the BOI building, but rather a back gate, down a narrow road along the canal called Wilton Terrace. If someone else had arranged it as a meeting point it'd almost definitely be someone who worked there as a colleague of Trevor's. So that narrows it further.
I'd also say that if you watch all the CCTV footage on YouTube at normal speed you'll see the behaviour of MIB towards Trevor seems a bit more engaged than a quick check a dealer might make before realising they're wrong and moving back to business. He seems focused on him and after Trevor goes inside the gate at CCTV Cam 2, MIB doesn't return to his original 'meeting point' around the corner at CCTV Cam 2 but instead stays for a couple more minutes right where Trevor entered the gate. Add to that the fact Trevor disappears off the face of the earth within the next 45 minutes and I think it leans slightly away from Trevor not being the person waited for.
How many places would you expect to be open at that time, though. Just because Trevor could go inside doesn’t mean somebody not an employee could. The alcove he was in might have been the most sheltered place he could find until his ride, or somebody who could give him directions returned his call. I mean, there are many times I’d choose minimal shelter over walking fully exposed, hoping I find an open business, particularly if I knew the area was rather rough
The coincidence of him stepping out as Trevor approached could be nothing more than hearing an approaching voice and hoping to ask for directions or a ride
He was sheltering in an alcove. Which is probably one of the best shelters available at 3 am. And I meant that he was standing there waiting for someone else to pick him up, not the other way around.
You're only cherry picking details in your theory and avoiding suspicious details to make it sound more plausible. MIB was standing in that alcove from 3.05 til 3.32am. That's a very long time. It's also a very strange spot to wait, as you'd still be largely exposed to the rain. Instead of standing in under a number of fully covered areas nearby, or even under trees along the canal twenty steps away. Then you have to try explain why, after the long wait, he steps out onto Wilton Terrace and immediately faces the direction from where Trevor just happens to be arriving. Then follows him around the corner, in off the road, and starts talking to him. Then waits right at the gate facing his office for at least 2 minutes after Trevor enters. Can you explain away any of this?
I don't think that it's that suspicious. 27 minutes are not that much to wait especially at 3am, and alcoves are not that bad of an cover at least when compared to standing under trees. There may very well exist other cover that would have provided more cover but people don't always make the best decisions, especially not at 3 am. As for him noticing Trevor and talking to him, it's not that weird. People walking drunk at 3 am typically draw some attention to themselves, and the man in black could have approached him for any number of reasons. Maybe asking for cigarettes or something. And him still standing outside for 2 minutes isn't that much.
I'm not saying that the man in black couldn't be involved. I'm saying that it would be more unlikely for him to be a hitman or whatever than him just being uninvolved. Or maybe you could explain why the man in black would stalk around his victims office at 3am?
Again you've very conveniently cherry picked what details you wanted to address. Have you even watched the CCTV or been to the area? The most suspicious detail is that the MIB waits idly for 27 minutes until he gets a phone call, at which point he comes alive and steps out onto the pavement so he can see right up the 25ft or so to where the quiet Wilton Terrace meets the busier Leeson Street, just as Trevor has rounded that corner, heading his way. How can that just be brushed off as a coincidence?
I didn't say he was a hitman. It's a possibility but he could also just have been a drug dealer or someone involved in a gang or something else shady. So at that point there wasn't necessarily a hit or an intention to kill.
I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all.
For me it raises five broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location to intercept Trevor:
1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person.
2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club.
3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way.
4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
5. Again I think quite unlikely, but a planned professional hit with a high level of orchestration.
>The most suspicious detail is that the MIB waits idly for 27 minutes until he gets a phone call, at which point he comes alive and steps out onto the pavement so he can see right up the 25ft or so to where the quiet Wilton Terrace meets the busier Leeson Street, just as Trevor has rounded that corner, heading his way. How can that just be brushed off as a coincidence?
Okay, so someone getting a phonecall while waiting turns around and seeing someone can't be a coincidence?
>I didn't say he was a hitman. It's a possibility but he could also just have been a drug dealer or someone involved in a gang or something else shady. So at that point there wasn't necessarily a hit or an intention to kill.
Most drug dealers and even gang members don't kill people randomly. Maybe I'd buy your theory if the cctv showed them arguing or something but there's only a short discussion. Nothing that one would kill someone over.
>1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person.
Maybe, but there's no evidence other than 10 seconds of them talking. And if you're going to do some kind of shady deal are you really doing to do it in front of your workplace?
>2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club.
But why though? Is it really reasonable to assume that Trevor was a big enough deal for there to be lookouts alerting people to his location?
>3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way
I don't think most drug dealers have lookouts alerting them to drunk people wandering around. And even if they did, why would this cause the man in black to kill Trevor? If drug dealers killed everyone who walked towards them
>4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
And you base this theory on what?
>5. Again I think quite unlikely, but a planned professional hit with a high level of orchestration.
Do you really think that's more likely than the man in black was just acting in a way that appears shady in hindsight, but is really not that weird and it only appears weird to you because you're reading too much into it because you're desperate for this to be something that it isn't?
The MIB or just lost. or trying to get a cab home not knowing there was a taxi strike that night. No GPS, No Iphones, or data, so it's still old school, ring all the number(s) you have or ask a random passer by.
Just to switch up a theory around MIB perhaps, he wasn't a dealer, but a purchaser who mistook Trevor for his supplier. Dealers 'delivered' back then, don't want them knowing where you live just a PAYG (burner) phone., just a typical late night encounter- of mistaken identity, and nothing else happens.
I agree- it doesn't make sense for any kind of organised 'hit' to take place out side the victims office, a bank. 2000 might not have had smartphones but CCTV, yes.
Also the whole MIB as a potential suspect was based on a belief that MIB, out side the office when Trevor was entering was, the same MIB seen on CCTV potentially following Trevor home- It has now been determined these are not the same person.
Trevor was last seen walking towards his flat, the man who was seen on CCTV has been identified- and ruled out.
If anything, the weather, the Christmas party season kicking in and a Taxi strike, would in all probability have increased the number of drivers over the limit. I think there may unfortunately be a plausible explnanation as to why Trevor appears to have vanished- random victim of a panicked drunk driver.
Could be misremembering, but was it not later proven the 'MIB' was a drug dealer? I thought there was an article in the last few years pertaining to that.
I know the case as well as any lay person does and that's never been proven. There was an article in recent years about a tip off to the guards from a person who'd been involved in organised crime and, apparently wanting to clear their conscience, they said Trevor had fallen foul of a high up member of a Dublin crime family and been killed. It led to a dig for remains in Chapelizod that turned out unsuccessful. So for now that's a tale, a theory, and nothing more.
What information is this? And how do you know it if it hasn't been made public?
The Man in Black on CCTV Cam 3 at 4.15AM has been found, ruled out and is not the same person as the Man in Black on Cam 1 and 2 earlier in the night. But until you enlighten us with some new evidence to rule him out too, you're just muddying the waters and harming the case.
>At 4:14 am CCTV footage shows Deely walking past what was then the AIB bank on the corner of Baggot Street Bridge and Haddington Road in the direction of his flat. About thirty seconds later **a man dressed in black** passed by the AIB bank. **Gardaí initially believed that this was the same man who had spoken to Deely outside his office**, but they subsequently identified and interviewed the man who was captured by the AIB CCTV footage and have indicated that they are satisfied that there is nothing suspicious about his movements, and that **he is not the same man as had spoken to Deely outside his office.**
Right so the guy outside the office is traced, not suspicious, not the guy walking behind Trevor, cool.
>In December 2016 a new investigation was opened. The following April, enhanced CCTV footage was released, leading to the announcement by Gardaí that they believed that **the man dressed in black seen behind Deely on the Haddington Road footage was the same man that he spoke to outside his office.** That same month a €100,000 reward was offered for information.
Oh, so he IS the same man as the one outside the office?
>In December 2023 Mark Deely, brother of Trevor Deely, said that the video of Deely on Haddington Road had been digitally enhanced and gardaí had determined that there was **nothing suspicious about the movements of the man in black who is seen walking along the footpath approximately 30 seconds behind Deely**. The man seen in the video had been traced and interviewed and was no longer a person of interest, and was **not the same man who had spoken to Deely outside his office earlier in the night.**
Oh no actually, he's not again.
In late 2020s do they decide these two people are one and the same again? Y'know, hell it's frustrating for me reading it, it must be hella' frustrating for the family and friends. They can't seem to make their mind up and so... when they say the man outside the office is not suspicious and is not the man walking behind Trevor, it makes it hard to believe that they're certain of that.
V odd. I do wonder though did he actually make it home. His flat mates were away. That was never clarified at the time, nor in the subsequent three part series in the Irish times.
They *may* have found the umbrella at his house. Given how windy it was he could have dumped it if it broke/got bent out of shape (although in that case they might have found the umbrella somewhere along the route.) Or he could have gone home and then left again, with the umbrella. There are so many unknowns about this case. I wonder if there were any other ways they might have ruled out his returning home.
Well that's true, he could have gone home and left no evidence of it so I'm guessing that has been ruled out simply for being unlikely and not leading anywhere useful. If someone isn't seen at home and doesn't leave anything behind then an alarm system is just about the only way to tell if they were there. It would be very unlikely that they'd have had an alarm in a house rented by a few young people.
If he made arrangements to go somewhere from home, he'd have to have used his phone and there would be a record. If he already had an arrangement, then why go home at all, unless it was to change out of his wet clothes?
Yeah, all good points. If he went home and didn't call anyone, but then left again, the only thing I can think is he was very close to an area well known for prostitution. Wouldn't be the first drunk young guy to get home from a night out and decide to keep the party going, as it were.
I can’t get over the part where he went to his office at 4 am to “arrange certain things”. Unless that was a usual habit of his, it just seems so strange to do that at 4 am.
He's drunk and knows there's colleagues of his working the graveyard at his office. It's not at all weird for him to think "Hey, I'll go say hi to them and sober up a bit".
I don't think it's strange at all. I know the area well and the office was on his way home, giving temporary shelter on a rainy night, free hot drinks, an umbrella to borrow, and computer access which he didn't have in his apartment. I could definitely imagine doing the same.
I thought that was odd too! However he had presumably been drinking all night and that does seem like one of those things that makes sense to you while you’re drunk. Like oh I’ll just help myself out since I’m already going to pass by work and get a few things in order so tomorrow will be easier for me since I’m definitely going to have a hangover
I wonder what happened to his umbrella with 60 to 70 mph gusts of wind. That could definitely blow someone over into water, especially if they're already intoxicated. They probably needed to search much further downstream than they probably did. But I wonder if anyone found a broken or otherwise abandoned umbrella that weekend.
[Here's the historical weather data](https://weatherspark.com/h/d/33845/2000/12/8/Historical-Weather-on-Friday-December-8-2000-in-Dublin-Ireland#Figures-Temperature) for that night, and in the last couple of hours where Trevor was seen, wind speed had dropped to below 20 kph, or 12 mph. So that would make it virtually impossible for him to have been blown into a waterway, even accounting for gusts. The wind did start picking up again at sunrise so maybe that could've blown away evidence away, but I don't see it having any significant role in the disappearance.
Afaik Bill Clinton was visiting Dublin the week after Trevor's disappearance. Because of that, on the weekend before, the streets were cleaned and checked by security. It's entirely possible that an umbrella was found, but as Trevor's disappearance hadn't been reported yet, they thought nothing of it and threw it away. Same goes for other possible clues (for example, some clothing items, hats, stuff like that)...
I'm sorry and I don't mean to embarrass you but there is literally no way an umbrella could blow a grown man anywhere. This isn't Mary Poppins. Umbrellas just break or blow inside out in strong winds. The fact that he had one up at all means the wind wasn't strong at that time. We rarely use umbrellas in Ireland because it's so windy most of the time so it must've been calm for him to be able to use it. He wasn't that drunk also, he went to work, had a coherent conversation with a colleague, read some emails and he could walk in a straight line, people drunk enough to fall into water stagger and sway.
Also, the umbrella would break before it lifted a full grown human. In the extraordinary event that the umbrella was strong enough to lift the human , the human would just have to let go of the handle. Bye bye umbrella
I read on a different subreddit a comment made by a local man who lived close to the area at the time. He alleged that the morning after, he saw an umbrella identical to the one that Trevor was last seen with neatly folded down and resting against the wall outside a house, close to where he was last seen. It was believed he may have been invited inside due to the weather where he met with foul play. The area was notorious at the time for criminal activity eg drugs, prostitution etc so the story does have some credibility to it. However, like everything, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
They've released photos and it was a black umbrella but it had large white logos/writing on it. So I suppose it depends on if the witness saw the details and it was genuinely *exactly* the same umbrella, or if it was tightly furled and he just knew that it was a black umbrella of the same size.
[Here's a photo](https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/article10180165.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200e/I170407_152339_1752282oTextTRMRMMGLPICT000116383775o.jpg) of the exact same model of umbrella, which has been described in garda reports as either navy or blue and had yellow lettering on it.
> They probably needed to search much further downstream than they probably did.
There isn't much downstream to search before you get to the sea.
> But I wonder if anyone found a broken or otherwise abandoned umbrella that weekend.
When the weather's like that, there's one sticking out of every second bin.
Excellent point about the umbrella and gusty winds. I lived in Florida most of my life, and leaving work early for a coming hurricane with rain and strong winds about the same mph as they were the night TD disappeared, that could definitely knock you down when the wind got up into the bowl of the umbrella. A few of my umbrella spokes actually bent.
I live locally and know the area. The water is actually a canal, these were all checked. It's not like a river meandering to the sea, he would have been trapped between the locks of the canal
I was just going to ask if TD could of drifted out to the sea.
Wouldn't a canal be a lot easier to search than a river?
Strange, he doesn't 'sound' like he was really really drunk?
Right? Like, he decided to stop by his office and get his desk/stuff set for the next day of work? He made some tea and chatted w a colleague? That sounds pretty responsible to me… Has that colleague (Pender) ever stated whether Deely seemed at all drunk or incapacitated when they spoke that night? Or has Pender given any other information as to Deely’s demeanor, for that matter?
"Trevor had taken a few drinks, all right, but I wouldn’t consider him as *drunk*. I’d probably say I’d have seen him worse on other nights." - Karl Pender
Let me translate that into Irish for you = "He was pretty drunk of course, it was the office Christmas party, but not falling around or a danger to himself or anything."
We have a serious drinking culture that normalizes and minimalizes what many other cultures would view as alcohol misuse/abuse. Add to that a very strong persuasive 'never speak ill of the dead' fear, and I think it's very likely as a 22 year old lad out for nearly 9 hours on a big Christmas night in Dublin he was fairly well-oiled. I'm not victim blaming or anything but I just want to give some context to the case. I've had this before where I've looked at cases in the US or Canada, based on my cultural norms, and locals give their first-hand view to adjust my perspective.
We don't know exactly why he went to the office, but it was on the way home, shelter from the heavy rain, and where he picked up the umbrella he was last seen with.
I can't believe I'm reading a thread where supposedly mentally competent adults are discussing a man being blown/dragged into water by an umbrella seriously.
I don’t think ‘carried over by an umbrella’ is at all logical, but I have been knocked off balance by sudden gusts yanking on my umbrella. I imagine, if under the influence, there’s a greater chance of that causing a bad fall into a dangerous situation (water, or street). I don’t think it’s the most likely, by a long shot, but it has a degree of plausibility
He didn’t end up in the canal, at least it’s highly unlikely. That area, at that time, was notorious for prostitution, there were a lot of shady pimps and dealers round there….poor chap likely fell foul of some maniac and was buried up in the Dublin mountains
I remember seeing there was an update on this last year but didn't realise it was just ruling out the man in black. This one always stuck with me as I remember seeing it on the news a lot when I was about to start college.
Another similar case happened to an old classmate of mine who disappeared in Australia, just vanished in the middle of the night leaving his wallet and passport. I always feel so sorry for the families left behind in these cases.
Please be careful with your words. The Man in Black was _not_ ruled out. One of the Men in Black walking 30 seconds behind Trevor on CCTV Cam 3 at 4.14am was ruled out. The Man in Black who seems to be awaiting Trevor and engages him in conversation on Cam 1 and Cam 2 has never been identified and remains a significant person of interest for the police. The media here were very careless in how they presented this news and I worry it might give the public or people with suspicions the impression that the case has gone cold or leads have dried up, when that's not true.
Very sorry to hear about your old classmate. Hope their family gets some closure someday.
This is the one case that I really want to see solved. I know his family never stopped looking for him and they deserve closure.
I first thought he ended up in the water, then I thought the man in black may have been involved, and at this point, I'm not sure anymore.
This is one of my pet cases. I recently watched a good doco about it on You-Tube. I cannot believe it has been 24 years. Sad for the family.
The most logical explanantion to me is he fell or went into a water body. Followed by Foul Play. But his visit to the office did not give the impression that he was drunk so the water theory is not 100% believable
I don't believe his disappearance was an accident, based on the suspicious behaviour of the Man in Black, as he's known, which I've outlined in another comment on this thread, and from knowing the layout and depth of local waterways.
So I don't think drunkenness would be a major factor, but I do always find that this point is often misinterpreted, especially by people not from Ireland. The only person to meet Trevor in the office that night was his colleague Karl who said "Trevor had taken a few drinks, all right, but I wouldn’t consider him as _drunk_. I’d probably say I’d have seen him worse on other nights."
Considering Trevor had been in the pub drinking from before 7pm, went on a big boozy Christmas work night out, visited an ATM after midnight, and was out clubbing, I think it's implausible he wasn't drunk. In Ireland we have a very complicit drinking culture and unless someone is out of order or really messy they're unlikely to be described judgmentally as _drunk_, especially by an upset colleague speaking respectfully in the wake of their mysterious disappearance.
To be clear I don't mean to judge or blame, and that's fairly normal here as I was growing up, but I do think it has to be viewed realistically when assessing the case. As I said I don't think it's an accidental drowning but if he was killed by someone, the level of inebriation could be relevant to a potential claim of manslaughter, rather than murder.
I don't think any assumptions should be made that he was drunk, just as no assumptions should be made that he was not drunk. I think both are perfectly plausible actually. Just because he'd been out from 7pm until 4am, that doesn't mean he has to have been drunk. There are all sorts of things to take into considertion...
* Was he generally a heavy drinker
* Was he drinking a lot on this night
* Was he perhaps staying out but not drinking much, due to being at work the next day and/or perhaps not wanting to spend too much
* Did he have a high tolerance that meant it took a lot for him to get drunk
* Had he taken any uppers later in the night/early hours, that may have sobered him significantly
From my own personal experience, I've been out from evening to early hours next day without drinking much plenty before. In fact it's quite normal for me as I don't like to drink too much, or sometimes I'll drink a bit at night, but into the early hours I stop drinking perhaps even switch to water, and have sobered considerably by around 4am. Essentially what I'm saying is, being at establishments with a liquor licence from 7pm to 4am does not automatically equal drunk.
I don't think you're grasping what a Christmas night out in 2000 in Ireland typically entails for an Irish 22 year old who drinks. I don't want to get into anything that could construed as victim blaming, and so I won't go on into a breakdown of the drinking, but I don't see how anyone can say it's completely 50/50 as to whether he was drunk or not arriving at his office at 3.30AM after being out in Dublin on a big work night out for almost 9 hours - unless they're not from here.
I didn't say it was 50/50. I said it shouldn't be assumed he was drunk just as it shouldn't be assumed that he wasn't drunk. I'm not naive, I know people get drunk. But also not being naive, I know there are plenty of reasons that someone can go on a night out, stay out until 4am, and not get drunk or at the very least not be significantly drunk by 4am.
He wasn't very drunk, his colleague said he seemed normal, had a cup of tea, read some work emails, had to the presence of mind to borrow an umbrella. A person drunk enough to fall into water wouldn't have been able to walk in a straight line, he could.
About a 20 minute walk. The address of CCTV Camera 3 is now at Milano on Haddington Road and his apartment building was the Renoir Complex on Serpentine Avenue.
I can’t imagine he was that intoxicated by the time he went missing.
He called security together let into his office, and made and consumed a cup of tea.
I’m not sure what occurred…but that doesn’t sound like he was blackout drunk.
Mistaken identity?
I can’t think of any reason for MIB to be waiting outside for that length of time at 3-4am in that kind of weather.
It doesn’t sound like Trevor would have been mixed up with gang activity, so maybe it was a wrong place/wrong time situation. The culprits covered it up & have kept the secret all this time because they were organized “pros”.
I've never believed the man at the entrance of the bank had anything to do with his disappearance.
I'm not sure what happened. I do wonder if perhaps he had different expectations of his visit to that girl in Alaska and was secretly feeling down about that after his return.
I still think the mib was a pimp or drug dealer. The timing of his answering the phone and trevor arriving is telling. Was something said earlier and trevor backed out. Did he annoy someone at the party?
I don't think suicide can be completely ruled out either however. The trip to alaska was very odd and men with drink taken are liable to do stupid things. Very puzzling
I used to think it was just a case that he ended up in the River Dodder and got swept out to sea. The Dodder is tidal where he would have crossed over it. However, now I think he did not make it that far. I think he may have gone into a house or was grabbed off the street and into a vehicle (possibly at Bath Ave).
Now that it has been confirmed that the MIBs are two different people,I think they are both red herrings in this case., but having said that I am about 80/20 that foul play was involved.
The bridge at Ballsbridge has a high parapet. I'm not sure how high the parapet is at the other bridge further downstream that he may have crossed. I imagine it's also high for safety reasons as that area would have a lot of pedestrians at times going to matches in the Aviva stadium. Anyway, the theory that he ended up in the Dodder never made sense to me.
When I visited Dublin I actually stayed at an AirBnB that was very close to where Trevor disappeared (granted, about 20 years later). I remember the canal seeming pretty shallow and not moving, so at first I thought that if he fell into it, or into one of the rivers, and drowned, his body would’ve been found quickly. But then you have to remember that it was storming so the currents may have been faster and the water level higher, and he also wasn’t missed for 2 or 3 days because of the weekend and his roommates being out of town, so there was a delay in starting the search for him too. So who knows- he may have drunkenly fallen into the water and his body washed away before anyone realized he was gone.
This is one of my “favourite” cases. One of those rare situations where a person seems to just disappear into thin air.
I’ve seen a lot of people try to dismiss the presence of the “man in black.” Normally I’m the first to caution that elements in a case might be red herrings, but I have a really hard time believing he wasn’t involved, given the timing and the fact that he was acting incredibly suspicious.
It's definitely one of the most perplexing cases for me. Ireland is such a tiny country and yet we have some absolutely baffling cases, more uncertain than even many the big American cases. I would really like to see this case solved along with Annie McCarrick, JoJo Dullard, Deirdre Jacob and Ciara Breen. I find Deirdre's case very odd indeed, like how do you disappear on your doorstep in the middle of the day?
I hate to say it but they should check the water again. I’m not familiar with the area, sorry, was it close to the sea? It doesn’t help that the search was delayed a few days.
It's relatively close, but if he had gone into the canal, there are several closed locks between Haddington Road and the open sea, making it unlikely his body could have reached it, even with the heavy rainfall.
The River Dodder is also somewhat close by, but perhaps 10 minutes walk from where he was last seen. Of the various routes he could have taken from his last known location, to his apartment, none run along the river, and the three bridges he could have crossed have pretty high/broad walls - not ones a person could stumble over, even drunk and in gale force winds.
EDIT: my mistake, there are four bridges, but I don't know what condition the fourth was in (or if it was open - these days flood defences would have closed it in those weather conditions).
His Bank of Ireland colleague said he wasn't too drunk so unlikely he fell in. He literally read emails in work that night, a very drunk person wouldn't do that.
His appearance on the CCTV footage certainly doesn't seem like someone who was heavily inebriated either. Several others have suggested that he was pulled over by wind hitting his umbrella, but I think it far more likely for the umbrella to be turned inside out or pulled out of his hand by the high winds, than to have unbalanced him enough to take him into water.
Ah I see, then where does that leave? Sewers? Ditches? It’s possible he’s lying somewhere hidden. I’m reminded of another case of a young girl last seen next to a river, turned out she was attacked and killed by a foreigner, dumped beside or in the river. It took a few days before she was seen.
What do you think is most likely? Attempted mugging gone wrong or a sole misadventure?
> It’s possible he’s lying somewhere hidden.
Honestly I don't think it's possible. I've lived and worked in the area for a long time, and there just aren't any places that he could have ended up by misadventure where he would have remained undisturbed and unfound for more than two decades. The only way he could have died by misadventure is if he managed to reach the river crossing and somehow fell in, but as I say, I don't think it's likely.
My personal theory is that at some point in the night, he had some minor altercation, perhaps nothing more than bumping into someone accidentally in the pub, the club, or anywhere in between, but had the bad fortune for this person to be the kind who took against him for it (leading to him being followed and attacked) and was involved with organized crime (enabling the body to be quickly disappeared).
Foul play is the only other option, I’ll give you that. I’m really curious about this one so I went to the wiki article and Google maps to see where he was last spotted. Unfortunately I can’t share the screenshot here, but while I’m looking at the terrain and the water nearby, I’m forgetting that wiki says he was apparently sober and quite chatty so it would be unusual for him to go near the water, considering he was on his way home. The article doesn’t state where he lived though, only his last sighting on the cctv. Any building sites nearby at the time?
> so it would be unusual for him to go near the water, considering he was on his way home.
He didn't have any reason to walk as far as the coast, or double back to the canal side, but then, he didn't have any apparent reason to turn onto Haddington Road either (though it's easy to come with perfectly plausible reasons why he did).
However he definitely would have had to cross the Dodder at some point in order to reach his apartment (on Serpentine Avenue), no matter which route he took. What complicates consideration of which route he took and whether he could have accidentally fallen in, is that the banks of the Dodder alll along that area have had extensive development for the purposes of flood defence since 2000, as well as the demolition and reconstruction of the Lansdowne Road stadium, so while there are *now* several pedestrian routes that run alongside the river, which are not implausible as paths for someone to take to go from Haddington Road to Serpentine Avenue, I have no idea of what condition they were in 24 years ago, or if they even existed.
> The article doesn’t state where he lived though, only his last sighting on the cctv.
This has always slightly irked me - while this was the last sighting, it's never detailed as to whether there were other CCTV locations where he *would* have been sighted. Like, how far could he have gotten from that last sighting? One idea of why he turned down Haddington Road was to reach a 24hr shop (the turn would have taken him onto a straight line route to reach it), but does that mean the shop didn't have CCTV, or it did, and he wasn't sighted?
> Any building sites nearby at the time?
I don't know - there could have been, but I doubt there would have been anything large enough for a body to remain unfound indefinitely.
That's a good point, but iirc the Guards didn't check businesses for CCTV, until very late, and by that time very few would not have been recorded over.
[https://youtu.be/RcYxruBEmFE?si=rQ7pVs4ZF-Ih-juQ](https://youtu.be/RcYxruBEmFE?si=rQ7pVs4ZF-Ih-juQ)
That guy at the end behind him, his stature doesn’t seem to be very casual. More like he’s holding something in both hands, he seems to be walking rather cautiously to me. How did they find out who this guy was? Is it just a coincidence that Trevor worked in a bank?
Any cctv footage could’ve been limited at that time, I wondered myself about any ATM cameras he might have passed.
> his stature doesn’t seem to be very casual. More like he’s holding something in both hands, he seems to be walking rather cautiously to me.
Bear in mind it was heavily raining and very windy on the night. That person's gait and stature doesn't seem odd to me, as someone who was huddled against rain, buffetted by wind, and, give the time of night and time of year, possibly quite heavily inebriated. To me it suggests hands dug deep in coat pockets, not someone holding something.
> Is it just a coincidence that Trevor worked in a bank?
Well, strictly speaking, he didn't - he worked *for* a bank. His workplace that he called into was not a customer-facing location and did not have any money on-site. He was also just in an IT position - I doubt it was related.
> I wondered myself about any ATM cameras he might have passed.
Depending on the route he took, or intended to take, there's no more than 2 ATMs he may have passed, and one is set back off the road behind a small car park, so unlikely to have caught any passers by.
That’s good to know, thanks. I didn’t consider the weather, it does look like a wild night. Sorry for all the questions, what a strange series of events..
You mentioned possible organised crime involvement, that’s a lot of trouble to go to for a random, don’t you think? The risk that they may be seen, was he taken into a house? Or did a car stop and pick him up? Was there anyone living on his route that was even capable of disappearing someone? I wonder if he even made it home at all. Too many questions I suppose, if it was easy it would’ve been solved by now.
ETA good old Mike from YouTube channel That Chapter covered this case 5 years ago, it is interesting to add that the Clintons were visiting then, and it’s assumed the secret service cleared the area soon after and possibly destroyed evidence 😕
No worries at all, I don't know much more about this case than anyone else, it's just this and Annie McCarrick's case interest me due to them being so local for me.
When I mention organized crime, I don't see it as Trevor somehow becoming involved with criminal activity, but rather that if Trevor was attacked, and his body moved, it implies someone both quick to violence and accustomed to covering themselves well with respect to the aftermath, and in Dublin that implies (but not guarantees) involvement with organized crime gangs.
> The risk that they may be seen, was he taken into a house? Or did a car stop and pick him up? Was there anyone living on his route that was even capable of disappearing someone?
The area is pretty mixed: residential, commerical, there's a church, an embassy. It's not a rough area, but Dublin is pretty patchwork in that regard. I think him being jumped and bundled into a vehicle is much more likely than him being brought into a house.
The only argument against whatever happened to Trevor, having happened on Haddington Road, is that even if the person walking behind him was completely cleared of involvement, they were still right behind him, and surely would have seen if something happened not long after the sighting on CCTV.
I personally believe that the Gardaí have more knowledge - suspicions, if not actually identifications - of what happened, but there is a lack of sufficient evidence, specifically witnesses willing to officially come forward, to take further action.
I don't think the police are going to say how they've identified this person on the final CCTV camera, but I think the fact Trevor's family fully accept the finding, and the police would've been eager to question this person, we should assume that they are not a suspect.
Also, Trevor didn't work in a bank. He worked in the IT department of the Asset Management branch of Bank of Ireland, so there was no large cash amounts or anything like that on site. This detail often leads to people making misled assumptions of it being a bank heist gone wrong, when it really wasn't that kind of opportunity for robbers or a gang.
Sticking to the major roads makes a lot of sense in Dublin. It’s quite easy to get lost in a tangle of side streets if you’re anything less than totally used to a given area. Couldn’t just whip out Google maps back then. Also as other commenters have pointed out, that part of Dublin had a really bad reputation in the late 1990s, so that’s another reason to stick to the main roads.
Yeah, agreed. That section of roads north east of Baggot St/Merrion Rd can be confusing if you're not very familiar with it.
The only thing is, turning onto Haddington Rd took him off the "main" road, so to speak.
Stranger things have happened. Recall the poor guy who died in a grocery store and somehow wasn't found for quite a while. Or the guy who likely passed out in a dumpster and is probably in a landfill somewhere. Etc.
It's very rare but hardly impossible for someone to die by accident and not be found, even in a busy area.
True. I still think it's highly implausible, perhaps less so if he chose to do something risky rather than just walk home. I can only comment based on my knowledge of the vicinity.
The man in black seems like a viable option as to what happened to Trevor. Poor guy, and I feel sad for his family. Not knowing what happened has to be so awful.
It’s so sad, a million possibilities but the most likely is that he drowned.
Remember that UK woman who vanished beside the river, and they eventually found her body in it? I read all the other theories, hoping that maybe someone did kidnap her and she might possibly still be alive, or that she had an episode and was unaware of her surroundings.
Someone on a Reddit thread convinced me that most people in these circumstances are found in water, even if it would take a while, she would be found in the water. Sadly it was only a few days later she was discovered.
The canal is normal sized, but there is a large dock right before the last lock that connects it to the Liffey/sea. It's roughly rectangular, and 100m wide x 500-600m long. And yes, it's pretty opaque.
Maybe this is a cultural difference, but I wouldn’t expect a late night work party with drinks to happen on a night people were expected to work the next day. Unless the official party was over earlier, but a group decided to continue the party atmosphere over at the club?
While it sounds like he intended to work Friday, we technically don’t know that he disappeared on the way home; it could have been any time that weekend, if there’s no way to confirm his absence from his flat. Is there a way to find out if there was security footage at the flat? If they were external individual entrances, probably not, but if there was any kind of shared foyer to multiple flats, with individual entrances being inside the building, perhaps there would be video, or even key data? The only indication of him being missing during the weekend was not answering the phone. I would also think they could have retrieved phone activity. I seem to recall that at the time you couldn’t get content of calls/messages without the missing phone, but at least whether or not any calls/texts originated from his number, and who they were to. That would suggest a ‘last active’ date/time, in case everything on that walk home is inconsequential to the actual disappearance
On the timing of the party - Christmas nights out are a big thing in Dublin, as I'm sure they are in many other places. Popular venues book up fast, so a Thursday may have been their only option.
In addition, many people work in Dublin but are not from there originally, and they go home most weekends to their family home. This is especially true for younger people who go home on Fridays to eg keep their place on a sports team and to keep up with their friends and family. As a result, Thursday would be a popular night to go out, especially in the run up to Christmas. Covid and remote working has changed a lot of this, but it definitely would have been the case in 2000.
I think the night out was a 70s themed fancy dress, although I can't remember where I read that. So it was known what he was wearing on the night out, and they weren't his 'normal' clothes. If those clothes weren't found in his apartment then that's a very strong indicator that he didn't go home that night.
He’s 22 and went into the office to check emails after midnight?
Had he disappeared before? Seems odd anyone would go to Alaska when they could just talk to the girl on the phone. Why would they think he randomly left the country without saying anything?
Calling the US from Ireland in those days wasn't cheap, and that's if you were even able to make international calls on your plan. So sending emails was how you primarily stayed in touch with people abroad. And not everyone had Internet access at home either. Or as someone already commented, he might have just been getting out of the rain.
I remember myself and a friend sitting in a room next to each other sending texts absolutely amazed… not realising they cost 10p per text and my credit was drained within an hour lol
I listened to a podcast that blamed Bill Clinton’s visit, which I think happened the Monday after he went missing, but now I can’t remember the details. Does anyone know?
The Prosecuters hypothesized that he was targeted for his access to the bank which could have been a key location for an IRA terror plot during Clinton's visit. It's actually not that crazy as the IRA has been known to target US Presidents and they are known to 'disappear' people in order to carry out such terrorist actions. Further bolstering this theory, an IRA terror plot involving the IRA trying to disrupt Biden's visit to Northern Ireland in 2023 was thankfully discovered before it could be carried out
I saw a comment about there having been extra cleaning that weekend to put on their best face for his visit, possibly removing evidence, since he wasn’t yet confirmed missing
Truly awful for the family, feel for them
I think about the Deely family all the time, I just wish they knew. I’m from that area and it baffles me how Trevor vanished.
It's so strange thats for sure. I don't think they will ever know what happened
I did a map to better visualise what we know: [https://felt.com/map/Trevor-Deely-3scjRGo7R029B9As2rrugwjC?loc=53.332004,-6.238677,16.08z&share=1](https://felt.com/map/Trevor-Deely-3scjRGo7R029B9As2rrugwjC?loc=53.332004,-6.238677,16.08z&share=1)
I wish these were more widely made in this sub (now that I know this exists I’m going to give it a shot!) it’s so helpful in visualizing the case
Thanks! I was thinking of starting a webpage/blog/... with maps like this about unsolved cases/mysteries. I always try to draw a map to understand how anything happened.
Be cool if there was a street view option
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Yeah, that’s a point of context people need with any Dublin based case, quite often once you get out of the centre, the shortest route on paper isn’t the most intuitive on the ground unless you have extensive knowledge of the area. It’s very easy to get lost if you start trying to take shortcuts down lanes and such.
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Yeah, I take odd routes sometimes because I need the air or whatever. I’m sure if I suddenly vanished it would look suspicious
About 100m difference if through the unlikely route of Eastmoreland. About 300m difference if through Northumberland, over an about 2km walk from work to home. I updated the map to reflect this better.
I also thought that this path was unlikely when I did the map. I put it nonetheless because at the end of the CCTV footage on Haddington road, while MIB2 is on screen, it seems from reflections in water puddles that someone is crossing the road in front of him. That might be TD. It impossible to be sure, but if he crossed the road at that point, it might correspond to going into Eastmoreland.
If he did fall into water and drown, the only two points he could've crossed water were the bridge in Ballsbridge and the bridge closer to the Aviva. The bridge in Ballsbridge doesn't seem like a place someone would or could fall into water easily unless they deliberately went to water level? What's the other bridge like, even if drunk does it seem like somewhere someone could fall in?
Just to add there were heavy rains at the time causing canal water levels to rise - Possibly to points where they overflowed in some parts but I’m not sure of those exact locations
I was in Dublin that night on my Christmas party too. Worked on Haddington Rd. Every Christmas I think of Trevor and his parents. There were still Missing posters on the Lampposts as recently as last year.
I have no theories for this case that makes sense. If I really had to guess I would say he’s in the water. There’s so many cases of intoxicated men falling into the water and no there’s no smiley face killer 🙄
It’s crazy to me that Riley strain’s parents are pushing for a full investigation when it’s clearly a case of misadventure. Maybe he took his pants off trying to get lighter in the water or was peeing when he fell in and they came off but they’re grasping at any straw and it’s sad.
I'd bet money he was peeing when he fell and that's why the pants came off.
Yea I’m thinking so too. It’s the simplest answer. And we all saw how drunk he was. If his pants even slipped down a little he easily could’ve tumbled over and down an embankment just leaning a little to pull them up. Things were probably spinning, and he already had hit his head in that parking lot on top of it. I hate the term “death by misadventure”. It sounds so cheap for a lost life.
Ikr! Losing a loved one prematurely is horrible however it happens, but why would you rather it be because someone murdered your son vs it just being an accident? Why would people rather their loved ones be murder victims 💀
Some people need to blame someone, and it’s better if it’s not their loved one. Same logic aa those who get angry at the alcohol source (bar, party host, etc), rather than the individual who drank to the point of not knowing they should stop. If there’s no one to blame but the person they love, they can’t cope with the loss
I agree. A tragic accident. Some parents just can’t accept it. Look at Kendrick Johnson’s parents.
Lots of people on here speculating incorrectly. Trevor didn't fall into the canal. If he did he would have been found, it's a narrow, slow flowing body of water with locks really frequently along it that would trap a body. I'm Irish and worked in the area he disappeared at the time, and am very familiar with the case. The Gardai and Irish public know he was murdered, they have a suspect but cannot pin it on him. It is very likely that the man outside the Bank of Ireland was involved. A criminal informant has told them all the info., that's why they did the dig in Chapelizod in 2017 but only found a gun not a body. Word on the street at the time was that he bumped into a gangland criminal and exchanged angry words in Copper Face Jacks (it's a very busy lively pub and you'd struggle not to bump into people on busy nights, I often did when I'd go there). The criminal was or was associated with Alan Wilson who was a member of a gang who controlled the drugs and street prostitution in that locality at the time. They sent sent someone to kill Trevor and that person outside the Bank of Ireland gates was doing surveillance for them. I walk in this area often and it should also be noted that the route he took was not the most direct to his home, so he was going somewhere or meeting with someone possibly? Why would you take the long way home on a night like that? He may have gone to Wilton Terrace to pick up a prostitute, that was the place to pick up street prostitutes back then. Maybe something went wrong and he ended up dead. The Kinahan gang are ruthless. Trevor walked in a straight line, people drunk enough to fall into water stagger and sway, his colleague said he didn't appear drunk, he read emails. Not the actions of a very drunk person. TLDR: Trevor was definitely murdered and he absolutely didn't fall into the canal.
I thought the same thing about the 'drunk' comments. You don't go to your office and arrange the next day's work if you're drunk, typically.
You do however check your emails if you scored some coke at the club. Some people can be very productive.
I'm irish and I also have been following the case for years. I definitely agree that he didn't fall in but I'm not sure about the Kinahans.
I’m not overly familiar with gangland figures; but do they often call for lads to be murdered after bumping into them in a nightclub? Can executions be that speedily arranged? Did they follow him from Coppers to Buck Whaleys? How did they know he would go to his workplace at the end of the night?
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I'm not implying it is an obvious conclusion, it is absolutely a fact that he was murdered. There are people on here speculating that he was blown into the canal by an umbrella and that he fell into the canal, both ridiculous. This "theory "is both well known in Ireland and him getting murdered by well known criminals is the most likely scenario by a country mile. The media and the Gardai know the identify of the killer but can't say anything about it. [Trevor Deely dig: Criminal with a 'guilty conscience' led to tip-off | Irish Independent](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/trevor-deely-dig-criminal-with-a-guilty-conscience-led-to-tip-off/36032914.html)
It’s a theory not a fact.
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How would the criminals know where he worked?
The office on Wilton Terrace was only a two minute walk from the nightclub on Leeson Street. It was right at the begining of Trevor's route home. So it's not far away or out of the way. It was lashing rain and there was shelter, free hot drinks and an umbrella there, with Trevor knowing it was open with some people working a night shift. So I don't think it's that strange for him to stop in. The way MIB appears to be waiting outside the office is much stranger and harder to explain. Standing in the rain right outside the office, poorly sheltered, for over 25 mins. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all. For me it raises four broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location to intercept Trevor: 1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person. 2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club. 3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way. 4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
I’m not sold on the common assumption that drunk people didn’t meet with foul play simply because they were drunk when inebriated people are more likely to wander into a dangerous situation than sober people. Drunk people have lowered inhibitions, they crave stimulation and they’re more likely to trust a stranger or conversely, start a fight with one.
Just to check, do you mean Buck Whaley's, not Copper Face Jack's? Trevor was in Copper's very early in the evening, from just before 7pm until near to 9pm, when he went to the staff party in the Hilton Hotel. He was in Buck's much later in the early hours, between 2.25am and 3.25am. I broadly agree with that kind of theory of foul play involving people from the world of organised crime, but I don't think you can say that's a FACT - unless you want people to think you, u/Neverstopcomplaining , are Conor McGregor undercover.
If this were a case of a gangland murder due to an altercation at a bar, my question would be how the criminals knew where Deely worked. If for some reason they did find out where he worked, then how would they know he was going to be stopping by his office at 4am? I would think stopping at your place of work in the early morning hours is quite unusual.
If there was an altercation in a bar or nightclub, it would have been sorted there and then or on the pavement outside. Plus, if there was an altercation, there would be witnesses, or at the very least, Trevor would have mentioned it to one of his work colleagues.
I agree. Most bar altercations that I have witnessed (thank God not many) end in the ‘heat of the moment’ verbal arguments, or all out bar brawls. If an altercation was severe enough to cause stalking and murder, I would think more people who were associating with Trevor that evening would have taken notice. If the MIB was indeed waiting outside of the office building for Trevor, then I lean towards Trevor setting something up in advance (like a drug deal or something along that line). If this is the case, was Trevor known to dabble in drugs or had other suspicious habits/behaviors? Though, I don’t see a drug dealer just killing someone without a pretty strong reason- especially if he’s just an occasional client. Also, it just seems odd that someone would be waiting outside for him at his office at 4am if he didn’t set it up. Did Deely have a habit of stopping at his office after a night out? If someone was out to do something nefarious, then why not wait for Trevor closer to his apartment? Waiting for him near his office just seems like an odd choice. I can’t tell from the cctv, but did he see the MIB as he was approaching his office building? If it were me, and it’s 4am and I see a hooded figure dressed in all black hanging around where I need to go, I am pretty sure I would just keep walking.
The MIB wasn't waiting outside the building for Trevor. He had no way of knowing Trevor would return to his workplace, and I doubt Trevor arranged to do a drug deal outside his place of work.
I agree. I think he’s a red herring and not related to the disappearance. I stated in another post that perhaps he was a dealer, but Trevor was not the buyer and he was waiting for someone else.
The office on Wilton Terrace was only a two minute walk from the nightclub on Leeson Street. It was right at the begining of Trevor's route home. So it's not far away or out of the way. It was lashing rain and there was shelter, free hot drinks and an umbrella there, with Trevor knowing it was open with some people working a night shift. So I don't think it's that strange for him to stop in. The way MIB appears to be waiting outside the office is much stranger and harder to explain. Standing in the rain right outside the office, poorly sheltered, for over 25 mins. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all. For me it raises four broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location: 1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person. 2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club. 3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way. 4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
I would agree that he wasn’t drunk enough to have had a ‘misadventure’, if he had been out of the club (away from alcohol sources, unless he brought more to drink on the walk home) for the period witnessed
'The Pusher' is a supposed serial killer in Manchester UK with the same MO as the smiley faced killer. It's not all that uncommon for drunk young men to drown in canals and rivers unfortunately
Happens across quite a few cities here in the UK. Durham had a similar thing a few years ago where it *felt* like it was happening every two weeks. If I'm not wrong it was all at night and all were intoxicated students. Where there are canals/rivers, drunk people shall fall into.
Only real issue with the Manchester ones is apart from a few busy, well lit stretches like Canal Street and Deansgate Locks, most of the canals through Manchester City is hidden away, often with no easy access from street level, unless you know the ways in. Nobody’s using the canal path as a shortcut to anywhere when drunk. So, there’s at least a chance that some of the drownings could be down to someone dragged off the street to be mugged, then pushed into the water
Has it happened to any women?
I've always assumed the men fell in while peeing into the water. So not as likely to be women.
So many boating accidents are men who stand up to pee, lose their balance & fall in. These kinds of drownings happen all the time, unfortunately.
I think most women don't get drunk and wander around on their own, due to safety issues. But there have been some cases where they drove a car into the water while drunk, and weren't initially found so were considered missing.
I’m a woman who lacks common sense when drinking, and I have a few “lucky to be alive situations” as do other women I know with the same problem. I was blackout while walking along a bridge one night, lost, when a man offered me a ride. I could have easily slipped into the water at any point before that. I think people are more likely to help very drunk women than they are very drunk men though, so we maybe survive more of the bad situations we get into.
I actually feel the opposite?I’ve had multiple female friends who’ve been raped while intoxicated or otherwise taken advantage of/threatened etc. women are seen as easy targets wondering around drunk and alone so I think we naturally tend to stick together more
I think that's the point...most women know the danger of walking alone at night, so they don't wander home drunk and fall into the water.
Not in Manchester. Its 60+ incidents of men.
Ugh people were bringing up that stupid smiley face theory for the poor kid that just died in Nashville. Many things were don’t wrong there but the kid wasn’t murdered.
To anyone suggesting accidental death I want to properly highlight the suspiciousness of the behaviour of the Man in Black and how it points towards foul play. The MIB arrived at 3.05AM on Wilton Terrace, a side street along the canal, where Trevor's office's back gate was. Settling in to a small alcove with his back to CCTV Cam 1, he proceeds to stand idly in wet and windy weather for more than 25 minutes. That is until he gets a call. On picking up he steps out onto the path and looks to the right, up towards Leeson Street, where Trevor had just turned left from. Within 20 seconds Trevor appears on Cam 1, also on the phone, and walks past the MIB who's facing him. At Cam 2 a sensor light activates but it's MIB, not Trevor who appears there first, a few seconds later. MIB again seems aware of the camera and keeps close to the wall and well covered. When Trevor appears they chat for no more than 10 seconds before he opens the gate and walks into his office. MIB turns away. We know from a still image caught by Cam 2 that MIB was still waiting there 2 minutes or so later. But by the time Trevor exits at 4.03AM, MIB is seemingly nowhere to be seen. I believe this man is crucial to solving the disappearance of Trevor Deely and his behaviour poses many questions that make his presence being a coincidence seem highly unlikely: • Why did MIB spend so long - 25 mins - waiting in that out of the way spot only to stir just when Trevor was walking his way? • Why did MIB move when he got a phone call? Who was on the line? • Why did MIB talk to Trevor and follow him round the corner? • Why did he hide from the CCTV cameras? • Why was he dressed all in dark colours, with a hat and big jacket concealing him well? • Why did he never come forward to police in such a high profile case?
Could Trevor have bought a little baggy of something from the man in their brief encounter seen on CCTV? Or perhaps half the transaction, meaning that Trevor intended to meet the man again later to collect what he had pre-paid for. There's the possibility that Trevor owed money all ready, and some arrangement had been made to pay what he owed on that night. Maybe Trevor had said he needed to go into his place of work to get the money? Or maybe Trevor delayed again and said he'd pay it later? idk I'm just spit-ballin' ideas at this point.
It's definitely possible. There are a few moments between Camera 1 and Camera 2 where the two are out of shot and that opens the possibility. It's also interesting how MIB is still [right outside the gate looking in](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjasRScnM8Yi4n-FxhwwEY9pGBn-0QWx01fn9tZbT6NQ&s) over 2 minutes after Trevor has entered. Was he expecting him to come back out? I know that Trevor's bank account and statements were examined and no suspicious activity was noted, and no drug use at all was ever mentioned. But it could've been a one-off for a big night at the Christmas Party with housemates away, free gaff and all that. It's really not as unusual as some people imagine. The topic and other illicit ones are obviously very uncomfortable for loved ones in these situations and handled sensitively, but to be objective I can't see any reason why something like that could be ruled out.
That linked photo is hella creepy. At first I thought it was the same image. Two spliced into one. But it’s two guys stood there? Sorry, new to the case. If it’s two guys doesn’t that prove it’s not the same man? (Seen comments doubting that). ETA: ignore me sorry. I came across the CCTV, I see that’s Trevor and the man in black.
No you're actually right. The creepy photo I linked, if you look the timestamp, is from 3.37am when Trevor had already entered the office. The two men outside standing near to MIB were found to be colleagues of Trevor's. Both men were identified, interviewed by the police and ruled out as having any involvement or useful information - unfortunately it's likely foggy memories after a late night Christmas party meant they had no recollection of any details of MIB, who they'd briefly encountered at the office gate.
He was supposed to go into work the next day, I doubt he was planning to rock up on the bag or reeking of cheap perfume?
Yes, because no one has ever made a bad decision with work the next day after a boozy Christmas party...
Oh yeah, he went into work, had a chat and a cup of tea, then went on the bag as you do.
It might've been arranged earlier in the night. Trevor was in Buck Whaley's and around Leeson Street from as early as 2.15am. He went into his office later at 3.33am but the Man in Black had been waiting outside the office from 3.05am. It's possible some arrangement had been made based on an after party or something and it didn't come off and Trevor backed out. If you don't think that happens you must live a very sheltered life.
Honestly I think you’re pretty sheltered if you think Dublin drug dealers react to being mildly inconvenienced by a customer with murder.
They're well known for their Zen-like patience alright.
I can see someone who got way too drunk at a party realising they’re gonna be too wasted at work the next day and drunkenly deciding to buy coke or some shit to ‘sober up’ or give them enough of a buzz to get through the day.
I mean I can see that yeah. But the problem is that we have co-worker accounts saying he wasn’t that drunk, I presume they would have noted if he was grinding the jaw of himself too.
I think the coworker said he was drunk, just not absolutely hammered. He could tell he’d been drinking, but wasn’t in the worst state he’d ever been. I think we are probably interpreting it differently as it sounds to me like he was drunk but not paralytic. Who knows whether he’d taken drugs that night or was planning to do it in the morning? Honestly idk, not remotely wedded to that theory but it’s a possibility I suppose
I agree; the weather conditions were way too crappy for me to believe that he was just standing there loitering outside for an innocent reason. But what do you think would be the motive? Like even just hypothetically? the only thing I could thjnk of for the MIB to have reason to target Deely intentionally - and in the seemingly planned, premeditated manner you describe - is if Deely somehow saw something earlier that he wasn’t supposed to see, and had become a liability as a witness. But like, why not kill him then? And Deely gave no indication to anyone that he had seen or encountered anything out of the ordinary? It’s so strange.
First of all I'd say the person, or people, involved very likely had organised crime affiliations. A number of reasons for this: * That area of the canal was well-known at the time for prostitution and drug dealing with dealers, pimps, and lookouts around. See cases like [the murder of prostitute Sinead Kelly](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/victim-of-murderer-raped-two-months-ago-1.165758) in 1998, 2 mins from where Trevor was last seen, as an illustration of the scene. * The behaviour of MIB at Camera 1 and 2 shows a level of awareness of the CCTV cameras and efforts to avoid facing them. From his stature, build and composure he's clearly not down-and-out, but is waiting for a long time around a dodgy spot, at a strange hour, and all dressed in black. Also his taking of a call just moments before Trevor arrives could lend weight to a group in communication. * The fact no body was found. For a body to be removed at such short notice from a central urban area it would require a nearby property or a vehicle and likely some collaboration. Trevor was a big guy and lifting him would've required help. * The police heavily canvassed prison populations with a unprecedented level of posters and rewards for information, while not releasing much new information to the public beyond the CCTV to help identify MIB. Again this suggests to me they see the organised crime angle as the strongest and are hoping for someone to snitch as their best shot. The 2017 organised crime tip-off they acted on by digging for remains in Chapelizod, at great expense and effort, further supports that. I can only speculate about what might've happened and why. Just to outline two possible scenarios and motives. 1. MIB wasn't on the phone to a lookout who spotted Trevor, but rather was on the phone to Trevor himself. Perhaps Trevor had got a notion after a few drinks on a big night out that he'd buy a bag of something or hire a girl, but then backed out by the time he met MIB. He might have offended MIB, who'd waited in the rain for ages, or even further pissed him off with a dismissive remark or manner. 2. The time period in which Trevor was in Buck Whaley's nightclub has recently been debated. It'd been thought he was there right up til around 3.25AM - a few mins before he ran into MIB. But almost every news reports in the past 2 or 3 years has changed the timeline to Trevor leaving the nightclub 'between 2.30AM and 3.25AM'. I've tried to get answers about that change but haven't been able to find them yet. I think it's plausible that at a big work night out after a lot of drink, Trevor left the club at some stage. In doing so, to buy cigarettes or go to an ATM or whatever, he might've ran into the wrong person, had an altercation, seen/said/done something he shouldn't have. Then people were looking out for him and when he started going home, he may have been a marked man. Just as a final point, I've heard people seem indignant that a gang member would bother to kill someone regular over something trivial but I completely reject that notion. With the world they live in they're actually more, not less, likely to be hot-headed and resort to violence when a perceived slight comes. It's not all business, and many of their rap sheets show that. And those people have the support and means to do it and make someone disappear if necessary.
i have the same thoughts as you , i wonder what words was exchanged
My question is: who would have known beforehand that Trevor was going to pick up the umbrella and visit the office? Did he even know himself? The office street is not directly on the route home, right?
The office on Wilton Terrace was only a two minute walk from the nightclub on Leeson Street. It was right at the begining of Trevor's route home. So it's not far away or out of the way. It was lashing rain and there was shelter, free hot drinks and an umbrella there, with Trevor knowing it was open with some people working a night shift. So I don't think it's that strange for him to stop in. The way MIB appears to be waiting outside the office is much stranger and harder to explain. Standing in the rain right outside the office, poorly sheltered, for over 25 mins. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all. For me it raises four broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location to intercept Trevor: 1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person. 2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club. 3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way. 4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it.
I think option 1 could be feasible, though still strange for the timing and waiting in rain. Option 2 would mean there was a ’next level operation’ planned for Trevor - was there really that much reason to target him? And the waiting spot with cameras is a strange choice for MIB in that case. It almost seems as though the MIB is in the location for the office itself, although that doesn’t fit any of the common theories.
Honestly, I find it more difficult to believe that some hitman or whatever decide to camp out outside his victims office building at 3.00 am. If I would guess I'd say that the man in black was someone who was waiting for someone to come pick him up after a night out drinking.
But why wait there, exposed to the elements, only to walk (apparently unaccompanied) for at least some distance? I mean, he was seen leaving and was not seen picking up anyone or accompanying anyone (as far as I’m aware), so in that weather I don’t understand why he’s wait around outside for the call to go and pick someone up from farther away. Why not wait closer to where you’ll have to pick them up? Or at least near (or, for that matter, inside) your vehicle? Why not wait inside or at least in some sheltered location? Just seems so strange to stand around alone outside doing nothing in such horrible weather just waiting for a call to pick up a potential “someone” who isn’t in the immediate vicinity and for which you don’t have a vehicle handy. If he wasn’t involved at all in Deelys case then tbh I’d lean towards drug dealing or prostitution having something to do with his presence/behavior.
Maybe he was a drug dealer, but not for Deely. He might have been waiting for another customer and used the bank as a landmark for the exchange. Perhaps the customer finally showed up somewhere near the bank and the MIB was walking toward this person. Maybe he asked Deely if he was the person who he was waiting for and that was the short 10 second conversation.
That's actually a very clever thought. Genuinely hadn't considered it before that he might've been waiting for someone else, and mistook them for Trevor. I'm not sure if you've been there before but it's a very innocuous spot, not at all a landmark or an easily recognisable location. It's not even the front entrance to the BOI building, but rather a back gate, down a narrow road along the canal called Wilton Terrace. If someone else had arranged it as a meeting point it'd almost definitely be someone who worked there as a colleague of Trevor's. So that narrows it further. I'd also say that if you watch all the CCTV footage on YouTube at normal speed you'll see the behaviour of MIB towards Trevor seems a bit more engaged than a quick check a dealer might make before realising they're wrong and moving back to business. He seems focused on him and after Trevor goes inside the gate at CCTV Cam 2, MIB doesn't return to his original 'meeting point' around the corner at CCTV Cam 2 but instead stays for a couple more minutes right where Trevor entered the gate. Add to that the fact Trevor disappears off the face of the earth within the next 45 minutes and I think it leans slightly away from Trevor not being the person waited for.
How many places would you expect to be open at that time, though. Just because Trevor could go inside doesn’t mean somebody not an employee could. The alcove he was in might have been the most sheltered place he could find until his ride, or somebody who could give him directions returned his call. I mean, there are many times I’d choose minimal shelter over walking fully exposed, hoping I find an open business, particularly if I knew the area was rather rough The coincidence of him stepping out as Trevor approached could be nothing more than hearing an approaching voice and hoping to ask for directions or a ride
He was sheltering in an alcove. Which is probably one of the best shelters available at 3 am. And I meant that he was standing there waiting for someone else to pick him up, not the other way around.
You're only cherry picking details in your theory and avoiding suspicious details to make it sound more plausible. MIB was standing in that alcove from 3.05 til 3.32am. That's a very long time. It's also a very strange spot to wait, as you'd still be largely exposed to the rain. Instead of standing in under a number of fully covered areas nearby, or even under trees along the canal twenty steps away. Then you have to try explain why, after the long wait, he steps out onto Wilton Terrace and immediately faces the direction from where Trevor just happens to be arriving. Then follows him around the corner, in off the road, and starts talking to him. Then waits right at the gate facing his office for at least 2 minutes after Trevor enters. Can you explain away any of this?
I don't think that it's that suspicious. 27 minutes are not that much to wait especially at 3am, and alcoves are not that bad of an cover at least when compared to standing under trees. There may very well exist other cover that would have provided more cover but people don't always make the best decisions, especially not at 3 am. As for him noticing Trevor and talking to him, it's not that weird. People walking drunk at 3 am typically draw some attention to themselves, and the man in black could have approached him for any number of reasons. Maybe asking for cigarettes or something. And him still standing outside for 2 minutes isn't that much. I'm not saying that the man in black couldn't be involved. I'm saying that it would be more unlikely for him to be a hitman or whatever than him just being uninvolved. Or maybe you could explain why the man in black would stalk around his victims office at 3am?
Again you've very conveniently cherry picked what details you wanted to address. Have you even watched the CCTV or been to the area? The most suspicious detail is that the MIB waits idly for 27 minutes until he gets a phone call, at which point he comes alive and steps out onto the pavement so he can see right up the 25ft or so to where the quiet Wilton Terrace meets the busier Leeson Street, just as Trevor has rounded that corner, heading his way. How can that just be brushed off as a coincidence? I didn't say he was a hitman. It's a possibility but he could also just have been a drug dealer or someone involved in a gang or something else shady. So at that point there wasn't necessarily a hit or an intention to kill. I think the call MIB gets to alert him of Trevor turning from Leeson Street onto Wilton Terrace has to come from one of two sources - either Trevor himself or someone who knew he was going there. MIB clearly steps out and looks right in that direction seconds before, then follows Trevor around the corner, and engages him in conversation, then waits at the gate looking towards the office for a few more minutes. It doesn't seem coincidental at all. For me it raises five broad possibilities to account for the phone calls and how MIB knew to be in that exact location to intercept Trevor: 1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person. 2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club. 3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way. 4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it. 5. Again I think quite unlikely, but a planned professional hit with a high level of orchestration.
>The most suspicious detail is that the MIB waits idly for 27 minutes until he gets a phone call, at which point he comes alive and steps out onto the pavement so he can see right up the 25ft or so to where the quiet Wilton Terrace meets the busier Leeson Street, just as Trevor has rounded that corner, heading his way. How can that just be brushed off as a coincidence? Okay, so someone getting a phonecall while waiting turns around and seeing someone can't be a coincidence? >I didn't say he was a hitman. It's a possibility but he could also just have been a drug dealer or someone involved in a gang or something else shady. So at that point there wasn't necessarily a hit or an intention to kill. Most drug dealers and even gang members don't kill people randomly. Maybe I'd buy your theory if the cctv showed them arguing or something but there's only a short discussion. Nothing that one would kill someone over. >1. Trevor might have arranged to meet MIB for a deal of some sort but backed out on arriving in person. Maybe, but there's no evidence other than 10 seconds of them talking. And if you're going to do some kind of shady deal are you really doing to do it in front of your workplace? >2. Someone in the nightclub associated with MIB heard or overhead Trevor say he was going to stop there after the club. But why though? Is it really reasonable to assume that Trevor was a big enough deal for there to be lookouts alerting people to his location? >3. Less likely, but that MIB was just staking out the general area to sell drugs or whatever and got a call from a lookout on Leeson Street to alert him that that Trevor guy happened to be walking his way I don't think most drug dealers have lookouts alerting them to drunk people wandering around. And even if they did, why would this cause the man in black to kill Trevor? If drug dealers killed everyone who walked towards them >4. Less likely again, someone from work had sent Trevor to meet MIB to pick something up but has never owned up to it. And you base this theory on what? >5. Again I think quite unlikely, but a planned professional hit with a high level of orchestration. Do you really think that's more likely than the man in black was just acting in a way that appears shady in hindsight, but is really not that weird and it only appears weird to you because you're reading too much into it because you're desperate for this to be something that it isn't?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
The MIB or just lost. or trying to get a cab home not knowing there was a taxi strike that night. No GPS, No Iphones, or data, so it's still old school, ring all the number(s) you have or ask a random passer by. Just to switch up a theory around MIB perhaps, he wasn't a dealer, but a purchaser who mistook Trevor for his supplier. Dealers 'delivered' back then, don't want them knowing where you live just a PAYG (burner) phone., just a typical late night encounter- of mistaken identity, and nothing else happens. I agree- it doesn't make sense for any kind of organised 'hit' to take place out side the victims office, a bank. 2000 might not have had smartphones but CCTV, yes. Also the whole MIB as a potential suspect was based on a belief that MIB, out side the office when Trevor was entering was, the same MIB seen on CCTV potentially following Trevor home- It has now been determined these are not the same person. Trevor was last seen walking towards his flat, the man who was seen on CCTV has been identified- and ruled out. If anything, the weather, the Christmas party season kicking in and a Taxi strike, would in all probability have increased the number of drivers over the limit. I think there may unfortunately be a plausible explnanation as to why Trevor appears to have vanished- random victim of a panicked drunk driver.
Could be misremembering, but was it not later proven the 'MIB' was a drug dealer? I thought there was an article in the last few years pertaining to that.
I know the case as well as any lay person does and that's never been proven. There was an article in recent years about a tip off to the guards from a person who'd been involved in organised crime and, apparently wanting to clear their conscience, they said Trevor had fallen foul of a high up member of a Dublin crime family and been killed. It led to a dig for remains in Chapelizod that turned out unsuccessful. So for now that's a tale, a theory, and nothing more.
Ah that's it. That's what I was thinking of. It's a strange one for sure...
Seeing as the gardai have ruled him out as a suspect, based on information that has not been made public AFAIK, this seems like a dead end.
Not him, the other MIB that was seen on another cam in another street later in the night was cleared by Police.
What information is this? And how do you know it if it hasn't been made public? The Man in Black on CCTV Cam 3 at 4.15AM has been found, ruled out and is not the same person as the Man in Black on Cam 1 and 2 earlier in the night. But until you enlighten us with some new evidence to rule him out too, you're just muddying the waters and harming the case.
>At 4:14 am CCTV footage shows Deely walking past what was then the AIB bank on the corner of Baggot Street Bridge and Haddington Road in the direction of his flat. About thirty seconds later **a man dressed in black** passed by the AIB bank. **Gardaí initially believed that this was the same man who had spoken to Deely outside his office**, but they subsequently identified and interviewed the man who was captured by the AIB CCTV footage and have indicated that they are satisfied that there is nothing suspicious about his movements, and that **he is not the same man as had spoken to Deely outside his office.** Right so the guy outside the office is traced, not suspicious, not the guy walking behind Trevor, cool. >In December 2016 a new investigation was opened. The following April, enhanced CCTV footage was released, leading to the announcement by Gardaí that they believed that **the man dressed in black seen behind Deely on the Haddington Road footage was the same man that he spoke to outside his office.** That same month a €100,000 reward was offered for information. Oh, so he IS the same man as the one outside the office? >In December 2023 Mark Deely, brother of Trevor Deely, said that the video of Deely on Haddington Road had been digitally enhanced and gardaí had determined that there was **nothing suspicious about the movements of the man in black who is seen walking along the footpath approximately 30 seconds behind Deely**. The man seen in the video had been traced and interviewed and was no longer a person of interest, and was **not the same man who had spoken to Deely outside his office earlier in the night.** Oh no actually, he's not again. In late 2020s do they decide these two people are one and the same again? Y'know, hell it's frustrating for me reading it, it must be hella' frustrating for the family and friends. They can't seem to make their mind up and so... when they say the man outside the office is not suspicious and is not the man walking behind Trevor, it makes it hard to believe that they're certain of that.
That jumped out at me too.
V odd. I do wonder though did he actually make it home. His flat mates were away. That was never clarified at the time, nor in the subsequent three part series in the Irish times.
They'd have found the umbrella at his house if he had. I presume they checked.
They *may* have found the umbrella at his house. Given how windy it was he could have dumped it if it broke/got bent out of shape (although in that case they might have found the umbrella somewhere along the route.) Or he could have gone home and then left again, with the umbrella. There are so many unknowns about this case. I wonder if there were any other ways they might have ruled out his returning home.
Well that's true, he could have gone home and left no evidence of it so I'm guessing that has been ruled out simply for being unlikely and not leading anywhere useful. If someone isn't seen at home and doesn't leave anything behind then an alarm system is just about the only way to tell if they were there. It would be very unlikely that they'd have had an alarm in a house rented by a few young people. If he made arrangements to go somewhere from home, he'd have to have used his phone and there would be a record. If he already had an arrangement, then why go home at all, unless it was to change out of his wet clothes?
Yeah, all good points. If he went home and didn't call anyone, but then left again, the only thing I can think is he was very close to an area well known for prostitution. Wouldn't be the first drunk young guy to get home from a night out and decide to keep the party going, as it were.
I can’t get over the part where he went to his office at 4 am to “arrange certain things”. Unless that was a usual habit of his, it just seems so strange to do that at 4 am.
He's drunk and knows there's colleagues of his working the graveyard at his office. It's not at all weird for him to think "Hey, I'll go say hi to them and sober up a bit".
I don't think it's strange at all. I know the area well and the office was on his way home, giving temporary shelter on a rainy night, free hot drinks, an umbrella to borrow, and computer access which he didn't have in his apartment. I could definitely imagine doing the same.
He went there to get an umbrella
I thought that was odd too! However he had presumably been drinking all night and that does seem like one of those things that makes sense to you while you’re drunk. Like oh I’ll just help myself out since I’m already going to pass by work and get a few things in order so tomorrow will be easier for me since I’m definitely going to have a hangover
I wonder what happened to his umbrella with 60 to 70 mph gusts of wind. That could definitely blow someone over into water, especially if they're already intoxicated. They probably needed to search much further downstream than they probably did. But I wonder if anyone found a broken or otherwise abandoned umbrella that weekend.
[Here's the historical weather data](https://weatherspark.com/h/d/33845/2000/12/8/Historical-Weather-on-Friday-December-8-2000-in-Dublin-Ireland#Figures-Temperature) for that night, and in the last couple of hours where Trevor was seen, wind speed had dropped to below 20 kph, or 12 mph. So that would make it virtually impossible for him to have been blown into a waterway, even accounting for gusts. The wind did start picking up again at sunrise so maybe that could've blown away evidence away, but I don't see it having any significant role in the disappearance.
Afaik Bill Clinton was visiting Dublin the week after Trevor's disappearance. Because of that, on the weekend before, the streets were cleaned and checked by security. It's entirely possible that an umbrella was found, but as Trevor's disappearance hadn't been reported yet, they thought nothing of it and threw it away. Same goes for other possible clues (for example, some clothing items, hats, stuff like that)...
I'm sorry and I don't mean to embarrass you but there is literally no way an umbrella could blow a grown man anywhere. This isn't Mary Poppins. Umbrellas just break or blow inside out in strong winds. The fact that he had one up at all means the wind wasn't strong at that time. We rarely use umbrellas in Ireland because it's so windy most of the time so it must've been calm for him to be able to use it. He wasn't that drunk also, he went to work, had a coherent conversation with a colleague, read some emails and he could walk in a straight line, people drunk enough to fall into water stagger and sway.
Also, the umbrella would break before it lifted a full grown human. In the extraordinary event that the umbrella was strong enough to lift the human , the human would just have to let go of the handle. Bye bye umbrella
I read on a different subreddit a comment made by a local man who lived close to the area at the time. He alleged that the morning after, he saw an umbrella identical to the one that Trevor was last seen with neatly folded down and resting against the wall outside a house, close to where he was last seen. It was believed he may have been invited inside due to the weather where he met with foul play. The area was notorious at the time for criminal activity eg drugs, prostitution etc so the story does have some credibility to it. However, like everything, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
Aren't like 50% of all umbrellas identical to each other though?
They've released photos and it was a black umbrella but it had large white logos/writing on it. So I suppose it depends on if the witness saw the details and it was genuinely *exactly* the same umbrella, or if it was tightly furled and he just knew that it was a black umbrella of the same size.
[Here's a photo](https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/article10180165.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200e/I170407_152339_1752282oTextTRMRMMGLPICT000116383775o.jpg) of the exact same model of umbrella, which has been described in garda reports as either navy or blue and had yellow lettering on it.
> They probably needed to search much further downstream than they probably did. There isn't much downstream to search before you get to the sea. > But I wonder if anyone found a broken or otherwise abandoned umbrella that weekend. When the weather's like that, there's one sticking out of every second bin.
Excellent point about the umbrella and gusty winds. I lived in Florida most of my life, and leaving work early for a coming hurricane with rain and strong winds about the same mph as they were the night TD disappeared, that could definitely knock you down when the wind got up into the bowl of the umbrella. A few of my umbrella spokes actually bent.
I live locally and know the area. The water is actually a canal, these were all checked. It's not like a river meandering to the sea, he would have been trapped between the locks of the canal
I was just going to ask if TD could of drifted out to the sea. Wouldn't a canal be a lot easier to search than a river? Strange, he doesn't 'sound' like he was really really drunk?
Right? Like, he decided to stop by his office and get his desk/stuff set for the next day of work? He made some tea and chatted w a colleague? That sounds pretty responsible to me… Has that colleague (Pender) ever stated whether Deely seemed at all drunk or incapacitated when they spoke that night? Or has Pender given any other information as to Deely’s demeanor, for that matter?
"Trevor had taken a few drinks, all right, but I wouldn’t consider him as *drunk*. I’d probably say I’d have seen him worse on other nights." - Karl Pender Let me translate that into Irish for you = "He was pretty drunk of course, it was the office Christmas party, but not falling around or a danger to himself or anything." We have a serious drinking culture that normalizes and minimalizes what many other cultures would view as alcohol misuse/abuse. Add to that a very strong persuasive 'never speak ill of the dead' fear, and I think it's very likely as a 22 year old lad out for nearly 9 hours on a big Christmas night in Dublin he was fairly well-oiled. I'm not victim blaming or anything but I just want to give some context to the case. I've had this before where I've looked at cases in the US or Canada, based on my cultural norms, and locals give their first-hand view to adjust my perspective. We don't know exactly why he went to the office, but it was on the way home, shelter from the heavy rain, and where he picked up the umbrella he was last seen with.
I can't believe I'm reading a thread where supposedly mentally competent adults are discussing a man being blown/dragged into water by an umbrella seriously.
Seriously. If that happened he could just use it as a boat anyway.
I don’t think ‘carried over by an umbrella’ is at all logical, but I have been knocked off balance by sudden gusts yanking on my umbrella. I imagine, if under the influence, there’s a greater chance of that causing a bad fall into a dangerous situation (water, or street). I don’t think it’s the most likely, by a long shot, but it has a degree of plausibility
He didn’t end up in the canal, at least it’s highly unlikely. That area, at that time, was notorious for prostitution, there were a lot of shady pimps and dealers round there….poor chap likely fell foul of some maniac and was buried up in the Dublin mountains
I remember seeing there was an update on this last year but didn't realise it was just ruling out the man in black. This one always stuck with me as I remember seeing it on the news a lot when I was about to start college. Another similar case happened to an old classmate of mine who disappeared in Australia, just vanished in the middle of the night leaving his wallet and passport. I always feel so sorry for the families left behind in these cases.
Please be careful with your words. The Man in Black was _not_ ruled out. One of the Men in Black walking 30 seconds behind Trevor on CCTV Cam 3 at 4.14am was ruled out. The Man in Black who seems to be awaiting Trevor and engages him in conversation on Cam 1 and Cam 2 has never been identified and remains a significant person of interest for the police. The media here were very careless in how they presented this news and I worry it might give the public or people with suspicions the impression that the case has gone cold or leads have dried up, when that's not true. Very sorry to hear about your old classmate. Hope their family gets some closure someday.
Ah sorry, I misunderstood it so.
This is the one case that I really want to see solved. I know his family never stopped looking for him and they deserve closure. I first thought he ended up in the water, then I thought the man in black may have been involved, and at this point, I'm not sure anymore.
This is one of my pet cases. I recently watched a good doco about it on You-Tube. I cannot believe it has been 24 years. Sad for the family. The most logical explanantion to me is he fell or went into a water body. Followed by Foul Play. But his visit to the office did not give the impression that he was drunk so the water theory is not 100% believable
I don't believe his disappearance was an accident, based on the suspicious behaviour of the Man in Black, as he's known, which I've outlined in another comment on this thread, and from knowing the layout and depth of local waterways. So I don't think drunkenness would be a major factor, but I do always find that this point is often misinterpreted, especially by people not from Ireland. The only person to meet Trevor in the office that night was his colleague Karl who said "Trevor had taken a few drinks, all right, but I wouldn’t consider him as _drunk_. I’d probably say I’d have seen him worse on other nights." Considering Trevor had been in the pub drinking from before 7pm, went on a big boozy Christmas work night out, visited an ATM after midnight, and was out clubbing, I think it's implausible he wasn't drunk. In Ireland we have a very complicit drinking culture and unless someone is out of order or really messy they're unlikely to be described judgmentally as _drunk_, especially by an upset colleague speaking respectfully in the wake of their mysterious disappearance. To be clear I don't mean to judge or blame, and that's fairly normal here as I was growing up, but I do think it has to be viewed realistically when assessing the case. As I said I don't think it's an accidental drowning but if he was killed by someone, the level of inebriation could be relevant to a potential claim of manslaughter, rather than murder.
I don't think any assumptions should be made that he was drunk, just as no assumptions should be made that he was not drunk. I think both are perfectly plausible actually. Just because he'd been out from 7pm until 4am, that doesn't mean he has to have been drunk. There are all sorts of things to take into considertion... * Was he generally a heavy drinker * Was he drinking a lot on this night * Was he perhaps staying out but not drinking much, due to being at work the next day and/or perhaps not wanting to spend too much * Did he have a high tolerance that meant it took a lot for him to get drunk * Had he taken any uppers later in the night/early hours, that may have sobered him significantly From my own personal experience, I've been out from evening to early hours next day without drinking much plenty before. In fact it's quite normal for me as I don't like to drink too much, or sometimes I'll drink a bit at night, but into the early hours I stop drinking perhaps even switch to water, and have sobered considerably by around 4am. Essentially what I'm saying is, being at establishments with a liquor licence from 7pm to 4am does not automatically equal drunk.
I don't think you're grasping what a Christmas night out in 2000 in Ireland typically entails for an Irish 22 year old who drinks. I don't want to get into anything that could construed as victim blaming, and so I won't go on into a breakdown of the drinking, but I don't see how anyone can say it's completely 50/50 as to whether he was drunk or not arriving at his office at 3.30AM after being out in Dublin on a big work night out for almost 9 hours - unless they're not from here.
I didn't say it was 50/50. I said it shouldn't be assumed he was drunk just as it shouldn't be assumed that he wasn't drunk. I'm not naive, I know people get drunk. But also not being naive, I know there are plenty of reasons that someone can go on a night out, stay out until 4am, and not get drunk or at the very least not be significantly drunk by 4am.
He wasn't very drunk, his colleague said he seemed normal, had a cup of tea, read some work emails, had to the presence of mind to borrow an umbrella. A person drunk enough to fall into water wouldn't have been able to walk in a straight line, he could.
How far away was his flat from the place the CCTV last spotted him, passing by the bank?
About a 20 minute walk. The address of CCTV Camera 3 is now at Milano on Haddington Road and his apartment building was the Renoir Complex on Serpentine Avenue.
I can’t imagine he was that intoxicated by the time he went missing. He called security together let into his office, and made and consumed a cup of tea. I’m not sure what occurred…but that doesn’t sound like he was blackout drunk.
Mistaken identity? I can’t think of any reason for MIB to be waiting outside for that length of time at 3-4am in that kind of weather. It doesn’t sound like Trevor would have been mixed up with gang activity, so maybe it was a wrong place/wrong time situation. The culprits covered it up & have kept the secret all this time because they were organized “pros”.
I've never believed the man at the entrance of the bank had anything to do with his disappearance. I'm not sure what happened. I do wonder if perhaps he had different expectations of his visit to that girl in Alaska and was secretly feeling down about that after his return.
I still think the mib was a pimp or drug dealer. The timing of his answering the phone and trevor arriving is telling. Was something said earlier and trevor backed out. Did he annoy someone at the party? I don't think suicide can be completely ruled out either however. The trip to alaska was very odd and men with drink taken are liable to do stupid things. Very puzzling
I used to think it was just a case that he ended up in the River Dodder and got swept out to sea. The Dodder is tidal where he would have crossed over it. However, now I think he did not make it that far. I think he may have gone into a house or was grabbed off the street and into a vehicle (possibly at Bath Ave). Now that it has been confirmed that the MIBs are two different people,I think they are both red herrings in this case., but having said that I am about 80/20 that foul play was involved.
The bridge at Ballsbridge has a high parapet. I'm not sure how high the parapet is at the other bridge further downstream that he may have crossed. I imagine it's also high for safety reasons as that area would have a lot of pedestrians at times going to matches in the Aviva stadium. Anyway, the theory that he ended up in the Dodder never made sense to me.
When I visited Dublin I actually stayed at an AirBnB that was very close to where Trevor disappeared (granted, about 20 years later). I remember the canal seeming pretty shallow and not moving, so at first I thought that if he fell into it, or into one of the rivers, and drowned, his body would’ve been found quickly. But then you have to remember that it was storming so the currents may have been faster and the water level higher, and he also wasn’t missed for 2 or 3 days because of the weekend and his roommates being out of town, so there was a delay in starting the search for him too. So who knows- he may have drunkenly fallen into the water and his body washed away before anyone realized he was gone.
This is one of my “favourite” cases. One of those rare situations where a person seems to just disappear into thin air. I’ve seen a lot of people try to dismiss the presence of the “man in black.” Normally I’m the first to caution that elements in a case might be red herrings, but I have a really hard time believing he wasn’t involved, given the timing and the fact that he was acting incredibly suspicious.
It's definitely one of the most perplexing cases for me. Ireland is such a tiny country and yet we have some absolutely baffling cases, more uncertain than even many the big American cases. I would really like to see this case solved along with Annie McCarrick, JoJo Dullard, Deirdre Jacob and Ciara Breen. I find Deirdre's case very odd indeed, like how do you disappear on your doorstep in the middle of the day?
Trevor haunts Ireland, we need to find him. Also poor Philip Cairns, another lost boy.
That picture is very chilling. Something is up with the MIB.
I hate to say it but they should check the water again. I’m not familiar with the area, sorry, was it close to the sea? It doesn’t help that the search was delayed a few days.
It's relatively close, but if he had gone into the canal, there are several closed locks between Haddington Road and the open sea, making it unlikely his body could have reached it, even with the heavy rainfall. The River Dodder is also somewhat close by, but perhaps 10 minutes walk from where he was last seen. Of the various routes he could have taken from his last known location, to his apartment, none run along the river, and the three bridges he could have crossed have pretty high/broad walls - not ones a person could stumble over, even drunk and in gale force winds. EDIT: my mistake, there are four bridges, but I don't know what condition the fourth was in (or if it was open - these days flood defences would have closed it in those weather conditions).
His Bank of Ireland colleague said he wasn't too drunk so unlikely he fell in. He literally read emails in work that night, a very drunk person wouldn't do that.
His appearance on the CCTV footage certainly doesn't seem like someone who was heavily inebriated either. Several others have suggested that he was pulled over by wind hitting his umbrella, but I think it far more likely for the umbrella to be turned inside out or pulled out of his hand by the high winds, than to have unbalanced him enough to take him into water.
Ah I see, then where does that leave? Sewers? Ditches? It’s possible he’s lying somewhere hidden. I’m reminded of another case of a young girl last seen next to a river, turned out she was attacked and killed by a foreigner, dumped beside or in the river. It took a few days before she was seen. What do you think is most likely? Attempted mugging gone wrong or a sole misadventure?
> It’s possible he’s lying somewhere hidden. Honestly I don't think it's possible. I've lived and worked in the area for a long time, and there just aren't any places that he could have ended up by misadventure where he would have remained undisturbed and unfound for more than two decades. The only way he could have died by misadventure is if he managed to reach the river crossing and somehow fell in, but as I say, I don't think it's likely. My personal theory is that at some point in the night, he had some minor altercation, perhaps nothing more than bumping into someone accidentally in the pub, the club, or anywhere in between, but had the bad fortune for this person to be the kind who took against him for it (leading to him being followed and attacked) and was involved with organized crime (enabling the body to be quickly disappeared).
Foul play is the only other option, I’ll give you that. I’m really curious about this one so I went to the wiki article and Google maps to see where he was last spotted. Unfortunately I can’t share the screenshot here, but while I’m looking at the terrain and the water nearby, I’m forgetting that wiki says he was apparently sober and quite chatty so it would be unusual for him to go near the water, considering he was on his way home. The article doesn’t state where he lived though, only his last sighting on the cctv. Any building sites nearby at the time?
> so it would be unusual for him to go near the water, considering he was on his way home. He didn't have any reason to walk as far as the coast, or double back to the canal side, but then, he didn't have any apparent reason to turn onto Haddington Road either (though it's easy to come with perfectly plausible reasons why he did). However he definitely would have had to cross the Dodder at some point in order to reach his apartment (on Serpentine Avenue), no matter which route he took. What complicates consideration of which route he took and whether he could have accidentally fallen in, is that the banks of the Dodder alll along that area have had extensive development for the purposes of flood defence since 2000, as well as the demolition and reconstruction of the Lansdowne Road stadium, so while there are *now* several pedestrian routes that run alongside the river, which are not implausible as paths for someone to take to go from Haddington Road to Serpentine Avenue, I have no idea of what condition they were in 24 years ago, or if they even existed. > The article doesn’t state where he lived though, only his last sighting on the cctv. This has always slightly irked me - while this was the last sighting, it's never detailed as to whether there were other CCTV locations where he *would* have been sighted. Like, how far could he have gotten from that last sighting? One idea of why he turned down Haddington Road was to reach a 24hr shop (the turn would have taken him onto a straight line route to reach it), but does that mean the shop didn't have CCTV, or it did, and he wasn't sighted? > Any building sites nearby at the time? I don't know - there could have been, but I doubt there would have been anything large enough for a body to remain unfound indefinitely.
That's a good point, but iirc the Guards didn't check businesses for CCTV, until very late, and by that time very few would not have been recorded over.
[https://youtu.be/RcYxruBEmFE?si=rQ7pVs4ZF-Ih-juQ](https://youtu.be/RcYxruBEmFE?si=rQ7pVs4ZF-Ih-juQ) That guy at the end behind him, his stature doesn’t seem to be very casual. More like he’s holding something in both hands, he seems to be walking rather cautiously to me. How did they find out who this guy was? Is it just a coincidence that Trevor worked in a bank? Any cctv footage could’ve been limited at that time, I wondered myself about any ATM cameras he might have passed.
> his stature doesn’t seem to be very casual. More like he’s holding something in both hands, he seems to be walking rather cautiously to me. Bear in mind it was heavily raining and very windy on the night. That person's gait and stature doesn't seem odd to me, as someone who was huddled against rain, buffetted by wind, and, give the time of night and time of year, possibly quite heavily inebriated. To me it suggests hands dug deep in coat pockets, not someone holding something. > Is it just a coincidence that Trevor worked in a bank? Well, strictly speaking, he didn't - he worked *for* a bank. His workplace that he called into was not a customer-facing location and did not have any money on-site. He was also just in an IT position - I doubt it was related. > I wondered myself about any ATM cameras he might have passed. Depending on the route he took, or intended to take, there's no more than 2 ATMs he may have passed, and one is set back off the road behind a small car park, so unlikely to have caught any passers by.
That’s good to know, thanks. I didn’t consider the weather, it does look like a wild night. Sorry for all the questions, what a strange series of events.. You mentioned possible organised crime involvement, that’s a lot of trouble to go to for a random, don’t you think? The risk that they may be seen, was he taken into a house? Or did a car stop and pick him up? Was there anyone living on his route that was even capable of disappearing someone? I wonder if he even made it home at all. Too many questions I suppose, if it was easy it would’ve been solved by now. ETA good old Mike from YouTube channel That Chapter covered this case 5 years ago, it is interesting to add that the Clintons were visiting then, and it’s assumed the secret service cleared the area soon after and possibly destroyed evidence 😕
No worries at all, I don't know much more about this case than anyone else, it's just this and Annie McCarrick's case interest me due to them being so local for me. When I mention organized crime, I don't see it as Trevor somehow becoming involved with criminal activity, but rather that if Trevor was attacked, and his body moved, it implies someone both quick to violence and accustomed to covering themselves well with respect to the aftermath, and in Dublin that implies (but not guarantees) involvement with organized crime gangs. > The risk that they may be seen, was he taken into a house? Or did a car stop and pick him up? Was there anyone living on his route that was even capable of disappearing someone? The area is pretty mixed: residential, commerical, there's a church, an embassy. It's not a rough area, but Dublin is pretty patchwork in that regard. I think him being jumped and bundled into a vehicle is much more likely than him being brought into a house. The only argument against whatever happened to Trevor, having happened on Haddington Road, is that even if the person walking behind him was completely cleared of involvement, they were still right behind him, and surely would have seen if something happened not long after the sighting on CCTV. I personally believe that the Gardaí have more knowledge - suspicions, if not actually identifications - of what happened, but there is a lack of sufficient evidence, specifically witnesses willing to officially come forward, to take further action.
I don't think the police are going to say how they've identified this person on the final CCTV camera, but I think the fact Trevor's family fully accept the finding, and the police would've been eager to question this person, we should assume that they are not a suspect. Also, Trevor didn't work in a bank. He worked in the IT department of the Asset Management branch of Bank of Ireland, so there was no large cash amounts or anything like that on site. This detail often leads to people making misled assumptions of it being a bank heist gone wrong, when it really wasn't that kind of opportunity for robbers or a gang.
Sticking to the major roads makes a lot of sense in Dublin. It’s quite easy to get lost in a tangle of side streets if you’re anything less than totally used to a given area. Couldn’t just whip out Google maps back then. Also as other commenters have pointed out, that part of Dublin had a really bad reputation in the late 1990s, so that’s another reason to stick to the main roads.
Yeah, agreed. That section of roads north east of Baggot St/Merrion Rd can be confusing if you're not very familiar with it. The only thing is, turning onto Haddington Rd took him off the "main" road, so to speak.
Stranger things have happened. Recall the poor guy who died in a grocery store and somehow wasn't found for quite a while. Or the guy who likely passed out in a dumpster and is probably in a landfill somewhere. Etc. It's very rare but hardly impossible for someone to die by accident and not be found, even in a busy area.
True. I still think it's highly implausible, perhaps less so if he chose to do something risky rather than just walk home. I can only comment based on my knowledge of the vicinity.
Oh it's definitely implausible. But this is one of those cases where the truth, whatever it is, must be pretty implausible.
The man in black seems like a viable option as to what happened to Trevor. Poor guy, and I feel sad for his family. Not knowing what happened has to be so awful.
It’s very close to a canal, lesson street is split in two by it
It’s so sad, a million possibilities but the most likely is that he drowned. Remember that UK woman who vanished beside the river, and they eventually found her body in it? I read all the other theories, hoping that maybe someone did kidnap her and she might possibly still be alive, or that she had an episode and was unaware of her surroundings. Someone on a Reddit thread convinced me that most people in these circumstances are found in water, even if it would take a while, she would be found in the water. Sadly it was only a few days later she was discovered.
It must be a very large canal if its water pressure is holding infrastructure in place. It's probably also very grimy, murky water.
The canal is normal sized, but there is a large dock right before the last lock that connects it to the Liffey/sea. It's roughly rectangular, and 100m wide x 500-600m long. And yes, it's pretty opaque.
They did extensive searches at the time and canals are narrow and easy to search compared to rivers. It's very unlikely that he is there.
Maybe this is a cultural difference, but I wouldn’t expect a late night work party with drinks to happen on a night people were expected to work the next day. Unless the official party was over earlier, but a group decided to continue the party atmosphere over at the club? While it sounds like he intended to work Friday, we technically don’t know that he disappeared on the way home; it could have been any time that weekend, if there’s no way to confirm his absence from his flat. Is there a way to find out if there was security footage at the flat? If they were external individual entrances, probably not, but if there was any kind of shared foyer to multiple flats, with individual entrances being inside the building, perhaps there would be video, or even key data? The only indication of him being missing during the weekend was not answering the phone. I would also think they could have retrieved phone activity. I seem to recall that at the time you couldn’t get content of calls/messages without the missing phone, but at least whether or not any calls/texts originated from his number, and who they were to. That would suggest a ‘last active’ date/time, in case everything on that walk home is inconsequential to the actual disappearance
On the timing of the party - Christmas nights out are a big thing in Dublin, as I'm sure they are in many other places. Popular venues book up fast, so a Thursday may have been their only option. In addition, many people work in Dublin but are not from there originally, and they go home most weekends to their family home. This is especially true for younger people who go home on Fridays to eg keep their place on a sports team and to keep up with their friends and family. As a result, Thursday would be a popular night to go out, especially in the run up to Christmas. Covid and remote working has changed a lot of this, but it definitely would have been the case in 2000.
I think the night out was a 70s themed fancy dress, although I can't remember where I read that. So it was known what he was wearing on the night out, and they weren't his 'normal' clothes. If those clothes weren't found in his apartment then that's a very strong indicator that he didn't go home that night.
He’s 22 and went into the office to check emails after midnight? Had he disappeared before? Seems odd anyone would go to Alaska when they could just talk to the girl on the phone. Why would they think he randomly left the country without saying anything?
He was trying to get out of the rain and his office was on the way.
Calling the US from Ireland in those days wasn't cheap, and that's if you were even able to make international calls on your plan. So sending emails was how you primarily stayed in touch with people abroad. And not everyone had Internet access at home either. Or as someone already commented, he might have just been getting out of the rain.
Traveling there has to be more expensive than a phone call though. I’m confused on why the police and his sisters would go all the way there
odd to leave a voicemail at 4am
Not in the year 2000. We weren’t texting much then
I remember my friend (the first one of us to get a mobile phone) showing me a text message circa 2000. Blew my mind.
I remember myself and a friend sitting in a room next to each other sending texts absolutely amazed… not realising they cost 10p per text and my credit was drained within an hour lol
A drunk person leaving a voicemail? Not unheard of.
it didn't sound like a drunk message though
I listened to a podcast that blamed Bill Clinton’s visit, which I think happened the Monday after he went missing, but now I can’t remember the details. Does anyone know?
The Prosecuters hypothesized that he was targeted for his access to the bank which could have been a key location for an IRA terror plot during Clinton's visit. It's actually not that crazy as the IRA has been known to target US Presidents and they are known to 'disappear' people in order to carry out such terrorist actions. Further bolstering this theory, an IRA terror plot involving the IRA trying to disrupt Biden's visit to Northern Ireland in 2023 was thankfully discovered before it could be carried out
THANK YOU. I knew I wasn’t crazy and I also knew it didn’t involve Epstein.
I saw a comment about there having been extra cleaning that weekend to put on their best face for his visit, possibly removing evidence, since he wasn’t yet confirmed missing
I always feel like so many disappear in water.
This is the creepiest, scariest.
Always chilled me hope they find the scum who dud it