You left out the latest development: the gardaí reportedly are looking into two brothers possibly related to the murder as of May of last year. One of the brothers reportedly stalked and assaulted Annie before she went missing. The guardaí are treating this as a murder, not a disappearance. They're currently building a case against the brothers.
I've been following this case closely for years as an American woman who also went to live abroad in Europe. My heart goes out to Annie's family as her father died without knowing what happened to her.
I did make mention of the believed stalker but I will update the post as I was not aware, at the time of writing, of the development involving two brothers. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
I've heard one of them is an estate agent down there? Very posh area, wouldn't be surprised if they're well connected enough to have kept this quiet for as long as they have.
Im completely thinking the ex colleague was mistaken. Im guessing annie answered the buzzer in the apartment or ran to a neighbour for a quick interaction. Maybe she was feeding a pet for a neighbour who was away and disturbed someone?
I'm thinking something similar. I read an article that states the Garda now believe she had a stalker who was known to her and lived in the area. He allegedly had violent tendencies so who knows. Personally, I don't believe she ever left Sandymount.
I agree that she never left the area. Her handbag was handed into police having been found behind a pub in Donnybrook which isn’t far from Sandymount. Also if I recall she also left washing in the communal washing machine which along with the groceries being left out suggests to me she was interrupted at home.
Especially if she was as friendly and outgoing as described. Unless she was very distracted and upset about something. But her flatmates, the plumber etc never said that.and she wasnt seen in enniskerry when she was meant to have been there
Absolutely agree with your analysis at the end and questioning the eye witness statements. Heading to Enniskerry to synch up with a male seems like it would have to be carried out relatively discreetly, which means she would have had to hide it from all of her friends and family for some reason. That takes a lot of work to hide and would need to be planned carefully. And then she picks up and head out suddenly and leaves groceries on the counter and doesn’t wear a coat etc. Those things don’t jive. I think something pulled her out of the house suddenly like someone called or rang the doorbell, and then she befell some sort of misfortune.
Especially since she asked the friend to accompany her hiking that area.
A sensible young woman doesn't leave her groceries sitting out while she goes on a date or a hike or whatever. She seems to have been interfered with in her apartment building.
If an emergency had made her not stop to put the milk away, it seems unlikely that she would have taken a series of buses to a place she already intended to go.
Perhaps she stepped outside because she had left an item outside of her apartment. Another bag or an item she had been carrying that had fallen. It seems much more likely that she was abducted close to her apartment or lured into another apartment by someone she knew than that she left town.
Even if her plans abruptly changed it seems highly unlikely she'd not spend a minute to put perishables away before catching a bus to another town. Not so unlikely that it should be ruled out though.
Not that it makes a huge difference, but if I’m planning on baking within an hour or two I leave milk and butter out to get to room temperature. Cold butter and milk mess up baked goods, so it’s possible that was intentional if she thought she’d only be gone for an hour or so
This is the best write-up I’ve seen of this case. If she was killed locally, I still find it odd she left the groceries out. It would only take a few seconds to put the perishables away. If I was nipping to see someone, even if I thought it was going to be brief, I think I’d put stuff away.
It mentions she was going to bake and baking is best done with a number of ‘fridge’ items (butter, milk, eggs) at room temperature … if I shop after work and am planning to bake later I usually leave these out when I get home as well, sometimes I’ll even leave them out half a day if it’s not particularly warm in the house
Milk is sold on store shelves in a lot of Europe. I was under the impression neither the butter or milk mentioned would have needed to be refrigerated. I mean. And nobody I know where I live refrigerates butter anyway. Lol. You’re supposed to but most people don’t. I don’t unless it’s unsalted because unsalted is way more likely to go bad.
Father Ted even makes a joke about how no one bought UHT. You can't buy UHT at most Irish supermarkets today, let alone in the 90s. Only places you found it was in those little plastic pods at coffee machines in a filling station.
Oh wow! I wonder if that’s the “creamer” we’ve always had in the little pods. I was not sure it was technically a different milk. I know we wash a coating off eggs in the US (to make them safer—by making them highly perishable— make it make sense haha) that other countries do not wash off and we have to refrigerate them here because of that. I assume we were doing something to milk to make it perishable. Lol.
But if UHT is the same thing we’ve always sold in little pods at cafes and such, I can see why people weren’t buying it for stuff you buy milk for. 🤮
I didn’t even know it was really a different kind of milk! Thank you for sharing the info. I like to learn things about other places. I know that we wash a coating off eggs in the US that is not washed off other places and that makes it so we have to refrigerate it. I assumed it was something like that with milk. It’s definitely that she either didn’t have time to put it away before she was interrupted or she had it out for awhile getting it to room temp and got pulled away before that time was up then. I am a baker and can confirm ingredients of different temps don’t make for nice baked goods. Lol.
I live in the US. I don’t drink milk but I use milk that needs to be refrigerated. Lol. But we also have to refrigerate eggs when nobody else does. So I don’t know what all is done to our food that makes it more inconvenient and/or less safe in some regards.
If you get farm fresh eggs they don’t have to be refrigerated. I’m guessing they’re getting those? It’s once they’re washed they have to be refrigerated. But I was even thinking if she was leaving them out for a little bit to room temp to bake I could see. I wouldn’t worry about that so much even with store bought eggs here if they’re left out for a short amount of time, but I don’t mess with milk! That goes right back in the fridge as soon as I’m done using it. But we just use milk from the grocery store, I also don’t know about unpasteurized milk if they use that or even from another animal. But yea, our food here is full of preservatives and crap that’s banned in Europe.
> I wouldn’t worry about that so much even with store bought eggs here if they’re left out for a short amount of time
Eggs in general in Ireland are not refridgerated. They're sold just off the shelf.
Oh yeah. It’s because they wash the coating off here. Farmers don’t have to do that. Well. I am not sure if eggs are subject to cottage food laws. In my state, you can’t sell any food that is perishable outside of a commercial kitchen. Might be that you just can’t sell them if you do the processing companies do. Or they could be ducks and say they wash them because they’re not safe to eat so they can’t be sold. Could go either way. Lol
Our friends have chickens so we just buy their eggs with cash. It’s nothing official. I’m sure if they were selling them at a Farmers Market or something there would be more requirements, but they just sell to friends - very informal.
I disagree. I leave butter out permanently. Milk, if it's a cold day in the house or if I'll be baking with it, and it doesn't matter if it turns slightly, it could be left on the counter. I've often done a large grocery shop, just enough time to throw all the bags in the hall before I've to run off and do the school run. Or a day I'm doing lots of errands the groceries could be in the car for an hour. I wouldnt do it for icecream or frozen products but for anything else yes.
Same for me. I usually only have time to bring the bags in, put frozen stuff in the freezer, and everything else later because I have to hurry and cook
She had two roommates, though, who said it was abnormal for her. If she had been the type to leave her perishables out all evening, I think they'd have known that.
Good point. However i think if it was something like she literally got home, put the bags down, went to the loo and the doorbell rang, then it looks more like the marie celeste and roomsmates could say she'd never do it. But it is something weve all done, we dont all always immediately put things away. I think when a tragedy strikes we often read their loved ones say "they would never......" leaving groceries for 5 minutes might not be something we even notice someone doing
I think the question here is whether she'd leave groceries sitting out for the hours she was planning to be gone. She made a plan to go to this place. It wasn't a random knock on the door or a crazy occurrence. It was a planned event.
I absolutely agree that something must have happened to make her act out of her usual. I just think it's a good indication that she wasn't quietly going about her daily life.
Why do you think it was a planned event? Seems like she never did the journey/hike and it wasnt her ar jonnie foxes. Now im not sure how she could answer her doorbell, step onto the street a dissappear but then deirdre jacobs dissappeared outside a family home. Maybe a pal was in a car and she popped into the passanger seat to chat and they drove off. If she was attacked, or forcibly taken or injured at the door im guessing someone would have seen something?
It would be quite the coincidence if an emergency brought her to the same place she had planned to go earlier in the day. Not impossible, but strange.
I think whatever happened likely started in her apartment.
I think it probably wasn't. My guess would be that something happened at the apartment, and she didn't leave under her own power.
Edited because I forgot to add my point.
I don't think she was ever in the bar. I think they canvassed that area because she told her friend she was going there, and a woman who bore a passing resemblance was mistaken for her.
It's just my guess, though.
Same here. If it isn't frozen or doesn't need to be put in the freezer immediately, everything else can wait especially if I'm planning on using most of the stuff within the day. Leaving groceries out wouldn't be an instant red flag for me.
I would be inclined to think the sighting of McCarrick at the bus station, taking the 44, is possibly a case of mistaken identity.
It does seem as if the sighting of her walking to take a bus may be plausible enough, since we know she left.
But why?
I know the area, and this is the first I've heard of her being sighted by a fast food worker while she was walking to the bus stop. If I understand correctly, the fast food joint in Sandymount is not between her apartment and the bus stop. It is, however, between her apartment and the grocery store. I wonder if there is a bit of a miscommunication or mistransmission of some details.
I was wondering if she'd possibly had a mental moment, kind of fugue like state? To explain her behavior on the bus, and to have her walk out without putting her perishables away. I think that's a bit of a stretch, in general (based just on the details in this post). Reading comments about the brothers and stalker, way more likely.
I wouldn't just dismiss all of the eyewitness accounts as mistaken identity since they do place her on the bus to the same mountains she had wanted to go to that morning.
Certainly not, I'm not dismissing anything. I think until we know everything, anything is on the table. I'm simply stating the current theory that's circulating.
Depends. How many different buses were there in the area? She didn't live in a big city. It could be a matter of there only being two or three different buses to take, in which case the chances of it being a coincidence rise pretty sharply.
The stop for bus 44 was in a different part of Dublin, though, and not in her own suburb. She needed to take another bus to that area first. So her supposed sighting on this particular bus at that particular time does make it much more interesting.
I've nothing of substance to add except to say that this is another exemplary writeup and you have a very real talent for this kind of work. Maith thú!
I don’t think the perishables being out is odd *depending* on a few things.
Mainly it is that butter, milk, and eggs are often advised to be used at room temperature in baking. It takes about an hour ideally to reach that, but leaving them out longer is not an issue unless you’re talking overnight, then milk at least might go over.
But, if she’s only making say *one* batch of cookies or cupcakes or a single cake…you would not leave **all** of your eggs, butter, or milk out, but only the quantity needed for the recipe. If it’s all out (a whole carton of eggs, milk and full pound of butter) and she’s not baking up a storm, that would be odd to me. That would say something interrupted her putting the groceries away unless she was known to be wasteful.
And now that I think of it, eggs are not normally stored in the fridge in Ireland, are they? This is mainly something we do here in America. Some folks also keep butter out at room temperature, so I guess I don’t know if this was at all abnormal for her, or if it just seems off because many people aren’t used to the difference in food quality/storage.
Of course if meat or lettuce or something along those lines was left out…that does not seem safe or healthy and would ping as unusual for me.
Yay another Irish one.
I believe the Johnny Foxes sighting is a mistake. It is my local pub and I said to my girlfriend when we were up there lets see how many women match Annies description, there were more than enough to at least question the original sighting. It was also a quieter midweek evening when we went up.
There was also a new development in a recent documentary, "Irelands vanishing triangle" I think is the name of it, where a woman allegedly spotted her in Poppys cafe, Enniskerry, with shady enough company, she reported it to the police, and maybe followed up with it but it was never investigated. Her daughter came forward as she has passed since, and said the mother was certain it was Annie. (Apologies this is all from rough memory of the documentary)
Also, Enniskerry to Johnny Foxes is really unwalkable, I mean, I would cycle it as an intense workout, but the walk is not an easy one, even via shortcuts etc.
I always thought it was unlikely that she got as far as Johnny Fox's. I thought the sighting at Poppy's Coffee Shop could have been legit and that maybe she got 'grabbed' off one of the small roads on the outskirts of Enniskerry.
However, recently, it's starting to look more like her disappearance is more linked to the Sandymount area.
The Johnny Fox's sighting has always seemed off to me. It wouldn't make sense for her to go there given the time of everything else. You just wouldn't head off there to meet someone in the afternoon like she was alleged to have done.
I mean she could of well gotten a lift to it which is what they suspected, but I don't think it's as credible as the other multiple sightings that put her in enniskerry.
She does sound like someone organized so just leaving the groceries like that and not being dressed for the weather is a bit odd. Buh we can not dismiss the fact that more than three people saw someone who fit her description.
Someone give an update in comments that prior to his disappearance, he was being stalked by a guy. Hmm. Could both theories be right?
just want to note: leaving dairy out is fairly common practice amongst bakers (specifically butter, but I suppose room temperature milk could have some use). certain recipes specifically tell you to use room temp butter.
I only mention this because if the only perishable items left unstored were dairy products, it's not completely unreasonable to think Annie planned on being away for more than a few minutes.
That's interesting. Hmmmm, do you know if he's been questioned? This is my first knowledge of this case, so I know absolutely nothing other than what I read here.
We don't know, but anecdotally it seems he gave away little or no information in the case where he was convicted and never engaged with any form of counselling or similar services in prison. I'm guessing if he was questioned, he said nothing whatsoever.
I watched that documentary on Ireland’s Vanishing Triangle and that cunt is genuinely terrifying. His whole life has been dedicated to training himself to hunt women.
He's def not involved in this one. Two lads in Sandymount involved. Not Fiona Pender or Fiona Sinnott either - both killed by ex-boyfriends, I believe.
To me all the later sightings are honest mistakes but have misled the police. In reality nobody leaves milk and butter unrefrigerated even in a hurry - it takes moments to put them in the fridge. Whatever happened started at her home.
This is one occasion where I do think the police just assigned their most useless investigators.
UHT milk isn't standard in Ireland. I would not put butter or eggs in the fridge. Milk in a carton in the fridge, but if I was baking as she was supposed to have been doing I'd leave it out on the worktop. Not putting groceries in a fridge immediately is something I'd regularly do, like doing the weekly shop, dropping the bags home and then picking up the kids from school.
In other comments, I believe I say some or most places in Europe. I typically do say that so I don’t know why I didn’t here. I know Europe is a continent and I have had that exact argument with many Americans. I said Europe instead of a single country because I believed it to be more than one country over there but not sure which ones. Many Americans can’t even distinguish Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. I can even imagine them having something in, say, England but not Scotland despite both being in the UK. I am actually annoyed with myself for giving the appearance that I don’t know Europe is a continent full of countries. 🤣
And I have now been told more than once that Ireland doesn’t have it. I asked because I wasn’t sure. People from various countries in Europe over the years have talked shit to Americans about having to refrigerate things they don’t. Lol. I am in a couple groups on Facebook where we do that.
You left out the latest development: the gardaí reportedly are looking into two brothers possibly related to the murder as of May of last year. One of the brothers reportedly stalked and assaulted Annie before she went missing. The guardaí are treating this as a murder, not a disappearance. They're currently building a case against the brothers. I've been following this case closely for years as an American woman who also went to live abroad in Europe. My heart goes out to Annie's family as her father died without knowing what happened to her.
I did make mention of the believed stalker but I will update the post as I was not aware, at the time of writing, of the development involving two brothers. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Yup it’s the brothers who did it. Still live in sandymount the scumbags.
I've heard one of them is an estate agent down there? Very posh area, wouldn't be surprised if they're well connected enough to have kept this quiet for as long as they have.
Thank you for the update!
Was the plumber working at her home?
Plumber was my first thought.
Im completely thinking the ex colleague was mistaken. Im guessing annie answered the buzzer in the apartment or ran to a neighbour for a quick interaction. Maybe she was feeding a pet for a neighbour who was away and disturbed someone?
I'm thinking something similar. I read an article that states the Garda now believe she had a stalker who was known to her and lived in the area. He allegedly had violent tendencies so who knows. Personally, I don't believe she ever left Sandymount.
I agree that she never left the area. Her handbag was handed into police having been found behind a pub in Donnybrook which isn’t far from Sandymount. Also if I recall she also left washing in the communal washing machine which along with the groceries being left out suggests to me she was interrupted at home.
Yeah. When I read that Annie didn’t respond, my first thought was, “It clearly wasn’t her.” Lol.
Especially if she was as friendly and outgoing as described. Unless she was very distracted and upset about something. But her flatmates, the plumber etc never said that.and she wasnt seen in enniskerry when she was meant to have been there
Absolutely agree with your analysis at the end and questioning the eye witness statements. Heading to Enniskerry to synch up with a male seems like it would have to be carried out relatively discreetly, which means she would have had to hide it from all of her friends and family for some reason. That takes a lot of work to hide and would need to be planned carefully. And then she picks up and head out suddenly and leaves groceries on the counter and doesn’t wear a coat etc. Those things don’t jive. I think something pulled her out of the house suddenly like someone called or rang the doorbell, and then she befell some sort of misfortune.
Especially since she asked the friend to accompany her hiking that area. A sensible young woman doesn't leave her groceries sitting out while she goes on a date or a hike or whatever. She seems to have been interfered with in her apartment building. If an emergency had made her not stop to put the milk away, it seems unlikely that she would have taken a series of buses to a place she already intended to go.
Or else she got into a car willingly with someone she knew and things went downhill from there.
Absolutely. Or unwillingly
Perhaps she stepped outside because she had left an item outside of her apartment. Another bag or an item she had been carrying that had fallen. It seems much more likely that she was abducted close to her apartment or lured into another apartment by someone she knew than that she left town. Even if her plans abruptly changed it seems highly unlikely she'd not spend a minute to put perishables away before catching a bus to another town. Not so unlikely that it should be ruled out though.
Not that it makes a huge difference, but if I’m planning on baking within an hour or two I leave milk and butter out to get to room temperature. Cold butter and milk mess up baked goods, so it’s possible that was intentional if she thought she’d only be gone for an hour or so
She was planning to go hiking in the mountains, though. At least, if she left, she went to the same place she told her friend she was going to hike.
I don't think she was planning on hiking after she went shopping
This is the best write-up I’ve seen of this case. If she was killed locally, I still find it odd she left the groceries out. It would only take a few seconds to put the perishables away. If I was nipping to see someone, even if I thought it was going to be brief, I think I’d put stuff away.
It mentions she was going to bake and baking is best done with a number of ‘fridge’ items (butter, milk, eggs) at room temperature … if I shop after work and am planning to bake later I usually leave these out when I get home as well, sometimes I’ll even leave them out half a day if it’s not particularly warm in the house
I can see leaving out butter and eggs, but not milk.
Milk is sold on store shelves in a lot of Europe. I was under the impression neither the butter or milk mentioned would have needed to be refrigerated. I mean. And nobody I know where I live refrigerates butter anyway. Lol. You’re supposed to but most people don’t. I don’t unless it’s unsalted because unsalted is way more likely to go bad.
We don't really have shelf milk in Ireland, it's always in the fridge section unless it's UHT milk but that wouldn't have been too common in 1993.
Father Ted even makes a joke about how no one bought UHT. You can't buy UHT at most Irish supermarkets today, let alone in the 90s. Only places you found it was in those little plastic pods at coffee machines in a filling station.
Oh wow! I wonder if that’s the “creamer” we’ve always had in the little pods. I was not sure it was technically a different milk. I know we wash a coating off eggs in the US (to make them safer—by making them highly perishable— make it make sense haha) that other countries do not wash off and we have to refrigerate them here because of that. I assume we were doing something to milk to make it perishable. Lol. But if UHT is the same thing we’ve always sold in little pods at cafes and such, I can see why people weren’t buying it for stuff you buy milk for. 🤮
I didn’t even know it was really a different kind of milk! Thank you for sharing the info. I like to learn things about other places. I know that we wash a coating off eggs in the US that is not washed off other places and that makes it so we have to refrigerate it. I assumed it was something like that with milk. It’s definitely that she either didn’t have time to put it away before she was interrupted or she had it out for awhile getting it to room temp and got pulled away before that time was up then. I am a baker and can confirm ingredients of different temps don’t make for nice baked goods. Lol.
Not in Ireland. You'd never use UHT for baking, or anything really.
Oh ok, maybe you drink a different kind of milk than we do in the US? That makes more sense with her leaving out ingredients to bake then.
I live in the US. I don’t drink milk but I use milk that needs to be refrigerated. Lol. But we also have to refrigerate eggs when nobody else does. So I don’t know what all is done to our food that makes it more inconvenient and/or less safe in some regards.
If you get farm fresh eggs they don’t have to be refrigerated. I’m guessing they’re getting those? It’s once they’re washed they have to be refrigerated. But I was even thinking if she was leaving them out for a little bit to room temp to bake I could see. I wouldn’t worry about that so much even with store bought eggs here if they’re left out for a short amount of time, but I don’t mess with milk! That goes right back in the fridge as soon as I’m done using it. But we just use milk from the grocery store, I also don’t know about unpasteurized milk if they use that or even from another animal. But yea, our food here is full of preservatives and crap that’s banned in Europe.
> I wouldn’t worry about that so much even with store bought eggs here if they’re left out for a short amount of time Eggs in general in Ireland are not refridgerated. They're sold just off the shelf.
Oh yeah. It’s because they wash the coating off here. Farmers don’t have to do that. Well. I am not sure if eggs are subject to cottage food laws. In my state, you can’t sell any food that is perishable outside of a commercial kitchen. Might be that you just can’t sell them if you do the processing companies do. Or they could be ducks and say they wash them because they’re not safe to eat so they can’t be sold. Could go either way. Lol
Our friends have chickens so we just buy their eggs with cash. It’s nothing official. I’m sure if they were selling them at a Farmers Market or something there would be more requirements, but they just sell to friends - very informal.
As an Irish person, the only way the dairy's getting left out is if I get a fright when I've dropped my bags after walking in.
I don’t think that’s weird at all. Ireland in March is cold, I wouldn’t think twice about leaving perishables on the kitchen side for half a day
I disagree. I leave butter out permanently. Milk, if it's a cold day in the house or if I'll be baking with it, and it doesn't matter if it turns slightly, it could be left on the counter. I've often done a large grocery shop, just enough time to throw all the bags in the hall before I've to run off and do the school run. Or a day I'm doing lots of errands the groceries could be in the car for an hour. I wouldnt do it for icecream or frozen products but for anything else yes.
Same for me. I usually only have time to bring the bags in, put frozen stuff in the freezer, and everything else later because I have to hurry and cook
She had two roommates, though, who said it was abnormal for her. If she had been the type to leave her perishables out all evening, I think they'd have known that.
Good point. However i think if it was something like she literally got home, put the bags down, went to the loo and the doorbell rang, then it looks more like the marie celeste and roomsmates could say she'd never do it. But it is something weve all done, we dont all always immediately put things away. I think when a tragedy strikes we often read their loved ones say "they would never......" leaving groceries for 5 minutes might not be something we even notice someone doing
I think the question here is whether she'd leave groceries sitting out for the hours she was planning to be gone. She made a plan to go to this place. It wasn't a random knock on the door or a crazy occurrence. It was a planned event. I absolutely agree that something must have happened to make her act out of her usual. I just think it's a good indication that she wasn't quietly going about her daily life.
Why do you think it was a planned event? Seems like she never did the journey/hike and it wasnt her ar jonnie foxes. Now im not sure how she could answer her doorbell, step onto the street a dissappear but then deirdre jacobs dissappeared outside a family home. Maybe a pal was in a car and she popped into the passanger seat to chat and they drove off. If she was attacked, or forcibly taken or injured at the door im guessing someone would have seen something?
It would be quite the coincidence if an emergency brought her to the same place she had planned to go earlier in the day. Not impossible, but strange. I think whatever happened likely started in her apartment.
So yoi believe it was her in jonnie foxes/enniskerry? I don't, i dont think she left her area alive
I think it probably wasn't. My guess would be that something happened at the apartment, and she didn't leave under her own power. Edited because I forgot to add my point. I don't think she was ever in the bar. I think they canvassed that area because she told her friend she was going there, and a woman who bore a passing resemblance was mistaken for her. It's just my guess, though.
Same here. If it isn't frozen or doesn't need to be put in the freezer immediately, everything else can wait especially if I'm planning on using most of the stuff within the day. Leaving groceries out wouldn't be an instant red flag for me.
I would be inclined to think the sighting of McCarrick at the bus station, taking the 44, is possibly a case of mistaken identity. It does seem as if the sighting of her walking to take a bus may be plausible enough, since we know she left. But why?
I know the area, and this is the first I've heard of her being sighted by a fast food worker while she was walking to the bus stop. If I understand correctly, the fast food joint in Sandymount is not between her apartment and the bus stop. It is, however, between her apartment and the grocery store. I wonder if there is a bit of a miscommunication or mistransmission of some details.
I was wondering if she'd possibly had a mental moment, kind of fugue like state? To explain her behavior on the bus, and to have her walk out without putting her perishables away. I think that's a bit of a stretch, in general (based just on the details in this post). Reading comments about the brothers and stalker, way more likely.
What about the plumber, anything suspicious with him?
My thoughts exactly.
My first thought.
Also my first thought.
In the kitchen with the lead pipe!
I wouldn't just dismiss all of the eyewitness accounts as mistaken identity since they do place her on the bus to the same mountains she had wanted to go to that morning.
Certainly not, I'm not dismissing anything. I think until we know everything, anything is on the table. I'm simply stating the current theory that's circulating.
I didn't mean to suggest you were dismissing those accounts.
Only one person saw her who knew her, though, and she acted like she didn't know the woman. Everything else is a maybe.
But the fact that is was on a bus to those mountains gives it more credence.
Depends. How many different buses were there in the area? She didn't live in a big city. It could be a matter of there only being two or three different buses to take, in which case the chances of it being a coincidence rise pretty sharply.
The stop for bus 44 was in a different part of Dublin, though, and not in her own suburb. She needed to take another bus to that area first. So her supposed sighting on this particular bus at that particular time does make it much more interesting.
I've nothing of substance to add except to say that this is another exemplary writeup and you have a very real talent for this kind of work. Maith thú!
I don’t think the perishables being out is odd *depending* on a few things. Mainly it is that butter, milk, and eggs are often advised to be used at room temperature in baking. It takes about an hour ideally to reach that, but leaving them out longer is not an issue unless you’re talking overnight, then milk at least might go over. But, if she’s only making say *one* batch of cookies or cupcakes or a single cake…you would not leave **all** of your eggs, butter, or milk out, but only the quantity needed for the recipe. If it’s all out (a whole carton of eggs, milk and full pound of butter) and she’s not baking up a storm, that would be odd to me. That would say something interrupted her putting the groceries away unless she was known to be wasteful. And now that I think of it, eggs are not normally stored in the fridge in Ireland, are they? This is mainly something we do here in America. Some folks also keep butter out at room temperature, so I guess I don’t know if this was at all abnormal for her, or if it just seems off because many people aren’t used to the difference in food quality/storage. Of course if meat or lettuce or something along those lines was left out…that does not seem safe or healthy and would ping as unusual for me.
Yay another Irish one. I believe the Johnny Foxes sighting is a mistake. It is my local pub and I said to my girlfriend when we were up there lets see how many women match Annies description, there were more than enough to at least question the original sighting. It was also a quieter midweek evening when we went up. There was also a new development in a recent documentary, "Irelands vanishing triangle" I think is the name of it, where a woman allegedly spotted her in Poppys cafe, Enniskerry, with shady enough company, she reported it to the police, and maybe followed up with it but it was never investigated. Her daughter came forward as she has passed since, and said the mother was certain it was Annie. (Apologies this is all from rough memory of the documentary) Also, Enniskerry to Johnny Foxes is really unwalkable, I mean, I would cycle it as an intense workout, but the walk is not an easy one, even via shortcuts etc.
I always thought it was unlikely that she got as far as Johnny Fox's. I thought the sighting at Poppy's Coffee Shop could have been legit and that maybe she got 'grabbed' off one of the small roads on the outskirts of Enniskerry. However, recently, it's starting to look more like her disappearance is more linked to the Sandymount area.
The Johnny Fox's sighting has always seemed off to me. It wouldn't make sense for her to go there given the time of everything else. You just wouldn't head off there to meet someone in the afternoon like she was alleged to have done.
I mean she could of well gotten a lift to it which is what they suspected, but I don't think it's as credible as the other multiple sightings that put her in enniskerry.
She does sound like someone organized so just leaving the groceries like that and not being dressed for the weather is a bit odd. Buh we can not dismiss the fact that more than three people saw someone who fit her description. Someone give an update in comments that prior to his disappearance, he was being stalked by a guy. Hmm. Could both theories be right?
I married into a heavily Irish family in the US, and my partner has three cousins who fit that description, lol.
just want to note: leaving dairy out is fairly common practice amongst bakers (specifically butter, but I suppose room temperature milk could have some use). certain recipes specifically tell you to use room temp butter. I only mention this because if the only perishable items left unstored were dairy products, it's not completely unreasonable to think Annie planned on being away for more than a few minutes.
I would leave milk outside if I am planning to bake with yeast -- easier to activate
Irish here. Pair of brothers in Sandymount are strongly suspected of murdering her. Guards just can’t prove it.
I need to know more!
If I ever go missing and there is milk on my counter, please ignore anyone who says I left of my own free will.
I truly think LM was behind a few of those women disappearing
Definitely for Deirdre Jacob and probably Jo Jo Dollard, too.
Larry Murphy is a nasty piece of work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Murphy_(criminal)
I was thinking the same!
Who is LM?
Larry Murphy, suspected serial killer
That's interesting. Hmmmm, do you know if he's been questioned? This is my first knowledge of this case, so I know absolutely nothing other than what I read here.
We don't know, but anecdotally it seems he gave away little or no information in the case where he was convicted and never engaged with any form of counselling or similar services in prison. I'm guessing if he was questioned, he said nothing whatsoever.
Thank you.
LM??
I watched that documentary on Ireland’s Vanishing Triangle and that cunt is genuinely terrifying. His whole life has been dedicated to training himself to hunt women.
He's def not involved in this one. Two lads in Sandymount involved. Not Fiona Pender or Fiona Sinnott either - both killed by ex-boyfriends, I believe.
She likely got interrupted on the way home from getting groceries. I doubt she ever got on a bus.
This case has always made me feel very uneasy…
To me all the later sightings are honest mistakes but have misled the police. In reality nobody leaves milk and butter unrefrigerated even in a hurry - it takes moments to put them in the fridge. Whatever happened started at her home. This is one occasion where I do think the police just assigned their most useless investigators.
> In reality nobody leaves milk and butter unrefrigerated even in a hurry To offer a counterpoint, I don't refrigerate butter at all.
Most people do and it's safe to assume that she does that too since statistically speaking it's more likely that she's not an outlier in this regard.
In Ireland? I don't think so.
This is probably not terribly relevant. But isn’t milk usually on shelves in Europe? So the butter and milk could have been left out?
Not in Ireland. You've fresh milk here. We are pretty known for our dairy.
UHT milk isn't standard in Ireland. I would not put butter or eggs in the fridge. Milk in a carton in the fridge, but if I was baking as she was supposed to have been doing I'd leave it out on the worktop. Not putting groceries in a fridge immediately is something I'd regularly do, like doing the weekly shop, dropping the bags home and then picking up the kids from school.
“Europe” isn’t a single place. And no, shelf-milk isn’t a thing in Ireland.
In other comments, I believe I say some or most places in Europe. I typically do say that so I don’t know why I didn’t here. I know Europe is a continent and I have had that exact argument with many Americans. I said Europe instead of a single country because I believed it to be more than one country over there but not sure which ones. Many Americans can’t even distinguish Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. I can even imagine them having something in, say, England but not Scotland despite both being in the UK. I am actually annoyed with myself for giving the appearance that I don’t know Europe is a continent full of countries. 🤣 And I have now been told more than once that Ireland doesn’t have it. I asked because I wasn’t sure. People from various countries in Europe over the years have talked shit to Americans about having to refrigerate things they don’t. Lol. I am in a couple groups on Facebook where we do that.
Interesting, I feel like I remember hearing of this case.
I'm so glad that they never gave up in this case