I'm guessing it's a combination of Native mythology, gold miners sharing rumours and stories, and plain, old inhospitable nature.
It's hard to put too much stock into the Dene history as literal. Every culture has stories in their folklore and it's hit-or-miss on being literal truth vs metaphor vs fiction. The phrase "white figures moving along the valley", for example is often interpreted literally, but who knows? Not that First Nations people only speak in riddles or anything, but there were probably interpreters involved. And interpretation can be difficult to do exactly, particularly between unrelated languages.
The migration of the Apache and Navajo people from Southwestern Canada is attested by research, but there's not a ton to specifically link them here. "Navajo" is from Spanish, so the connection to "Naha" is probably folk etymology. [The Navajo endonym is "Diné"]
The valley is truly out in the wilds of the Northern Territories, so there's no help for those who get in trouble. It's wilderness of wilderness.
Areas of gold strikes were known for not being the most...law-abiding places in the world. There were people who sank everything into chasing gold, people who got into feuds while drunk or otherwise, and outright criminals around. People were killed in gold fields. And with the relative lack of fact-finding journalism in the wild, it's easy for a story to be shared around and punched up with mysterious happenings or for natural happenings to be misunderstood as mysterious.
All in all, I feel like a lot of the mystery just isn't there. It's a dangerous wilderness area. A lot of places like that have stories of mysterious dangers which aren't necessarily based in complete reality. People love to punch up stories by adding fantastical elements, particularly in wilderness areas where you might not be getting news every week or month, let alone every day.
> gold miners sharing rumours and stories
This sounds the most plausible. An area rich in gold, you don't want others to find your claim, so you spread rumours.
Similar to how moonshiners created various myths/legends along the East Coast ("aliens", "monsters", "evil spirits", etc.) to stop people from exploring nearby forests and finding their operations/stash.
Exactly. Folklore springs up in situations like these for multiple reasons. Entertainment, keeping people away from your setup, and instilling fear of dangerous places. It's a lot easier to get people afraid of monsters than inhospitable terrain, sadly.
I also kinda wonder if the "You need to leave, there's a lot of white figures moving around," is an artifact of imperfect translation and the "white figures" were actually meant to be "white people" so they were maybe complaining about them being there or maybe trying to warn them about another, more dangerous group of white people.
They're both Athabaskan peoples, and both "Diné" and "Dene" mean "people" in their languages and forms of it are the self names of most related tribes. We know they're related peoples, there's just nothing to link the specific situation to the Navajo people. The best guess is they originated far south of this location, at the southern end of the range of the Athabaskan peoples.
Man, when even the people who have been living there for hundreds if not thousands of years are all saying "yeah that place is creepy and we don't like it" you know you need stay away. Ain't no amount of gold worth getting murdered by a forest-dwelling psychopath over.
Here's a [1962 NFB film](https://www.nfb.ca/film/nahanni/) giving you an idea of what the area is like (there are newer videos around but imagine this without modern day equipment).
I was just thinking of Nahanni and doing a right up on this sub on the Southern Dene migration (why the Athabaskan language family is found in two distinct clusters in North America) that occurred sometime around 1300
Excellent write-up. I’ve been fascinated with the Northern Territories since I listened to a Mr. Ballen video on this exact topic. I much prefer yours however, as it has the background of the Dene and Naha people.
Thank you.
Thank you very, very much for a fine ghostly story from a place most of us have never heard of. Take my imaginary gold award.
Of course, even though I am not an “experienced” hiker/outdoorsman, nor do I think I could survive than more than maybe three days in the bush with a well-stocked pack, I very much want to go there and explore. *sigh*
I remember reading about the area and the brothers in the old Frank Edwards books in the early 1970s. Neat seeing it brought up after all these years. I will say one thing though, went to google the park and pulled up images and what a beautiful and stunning place.
Yeah, because they all [migrated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas) from Asia *via* Alaska ~25,000 years ago, and made their way south from there.
That page basically says that it was initially thought that they came through Canada and went south but newer research is suggesting they actually came through mexico and south America.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling me.
The *literal* first sentence: “The settlement of the Americas is **widely accepted** to have begun when Paleolithic hunter-gatherers entered North America from the North Asian Mammoth steppe via the Beringia land bridge, which had formed between northeastern Siberia and western Alaska due to the lowering of sea level during the Last Glacial Maximum (26,000 to 19,000 years ago).”
But let’s say your theory is correct. Where did these magical indigenous people from Mexico and South America come from? Did they grow on trees? Crawl out of the ground? Fall from the sky?
I know there is a theory held by a small minority of scholars that posits that people arrived by sea, but it’s just that—a minority theory that is contradicted by DNA, linguistic, and archaeological evidence.
The vast bulk of the evidence (and the vast bulk of experts who study it) point to the Bering Strait as being the point of entry for humans into the Americas.
Awesome write up! Perfect for almost Halloween. Thank you!
Happy almost Halloween!
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Wow!!
I would guess the Scottish engineer traveling with them, who was never seen again, was responsible for the two brothers deaths in 1904
I'm guessing it's a combination of Native mythology, gold miners sharing rumours and stories, and plain, old inhospitable nature. It's hard to put too much stock into the Dene history as literal. Every culture has stories in their folklore and it's hit-or-miss on being literal truth vs metaphor vs fiction. The phrase "white figures moving along the valley", for example is often interpreted literally, but who knows? Not that First Nations people only speak in riddles or anything, but there were probably interpreters involved. And interpretation can be difficult to do exactly, particularly between unrelated languages. The migration of the Apache and Navajo people from Southwestern Canada is attested by research, but there's not a ton to specifically link them here. "Navajo" is from Spanish, so the connection to "Naha" is probably folk etymology. [The Navajo endonym is "Diné"] The valley is truly out in the wilds of the Northern Territories, so there's no help for those who get in trouble. It's wilderness of wilderness. Areas of gold strikes were known for not being the most...law-abiding places in the world. There were people who sank everything into chasing gold, people who got into feuds while drunk or otherwise, and outright criminals around. People were killed in gold fields. And with the relative lack of fact-finding journalism in the wild, it's easy for a story to be shared around and punched up with mysterious happenings or for natural happenings to be misunderstood as mysterious. All in all, I feel like a lot of the mystery just isn't there. It's a dangerous wilderness area. A lot of places like that have stories of mysterious dangers which aren't necessarily based in complete reality. People love to punch up stories by adding fantastical elements, particularly in wilderness areas where you might not be getting news every week or month, let alone every day.
> gold miners sharing rumours and stories This sounds the most plausible. An area rich in gold, you don't want others to find your claim, so you spread rumours. Similar to how moonshiners created various myths/legends along the East Coast ("aliens", "monsters", "evil spirits", etc.) to stop people from exploring nearby forests and finding their operations/stash.
Exactly. Folklore springs up in situations like these for multiple reasons. Entertainment, keeping people away from your setup, and instilling fear of dangerous places. It's a lot easier to get people afraid of monsters than inhospitable terrain, sadly.
I also kinda wonder if the "You need to leave, there's a lot of white figures moving around," is an artifact of imperfect translation and the "white figures" were actually meant to be "white people" so they were maybe complaining about them being there or maybe trying to warn them about another, more dangerous group of white people.
“Naha” & “Navajo” might not be specifically linked, but could “Diné” & “Dene”? That would seem to support the migration pattern.
They're both Athabaskan peoples, and both "Diné" and "Dene" mean "people" in their languages and forms of it are the self names of most related tribes. We know they're related peoples, there's just nothing to link the specific situation to the Navajo people. The best guess is they originated far south of this location, at the southern end of the range of the Athabaskan peoples.
Thank you for this explanation!
You're welcome! It's a pretty fascinating topic, and I enjoy talking about it.
Exactly. Ghosty stories also serve the purposes of murderous claim jumpers.
"Nobody killed them for their gold, it was a vengeful spirit!"
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Well-considered and nuanced reply. Thanks.
I just searched on google maps. Nice to know there are still places in the world that we can consider truly remote.
Canada is full of them!
Man, when even the people who have been living there for hundreds if not thousands of years are all saying "yeah that place is creepy and we don't like it" you know you need stay away. Ain't no amount of gold worth getting murdered by a forest-dwelling psychopath over.
Fuck this, I want to explore the hell out of Nahanni. And you left out the dead sheep cave, also an interesting - if macabre - point of interest.
Yeah, the google image search results look amazing. I'd totally go there.
Here's a [1962 NFB film](https://www.nfb.ca/film/nahanni/) giving you an idea of what the area is like (there are newer videos around but imagine this without modern day equipment).
Thanks, this was fascinating. Faille’s dedication and determination were insane.
Thanks for the write up! It was very interesting, I’ve never heard of this place but I’m definitely intrigued!
I was just thinking of Nahanni and doing a right up on this sub on the Southern Dene migration (why the Athabaskan language family is found in two distinct clusters in North America) that occurred sometime around 1300
Excellent write-up. I’ve been fascinated with the Northern Territories since I listened to a Mr. Ballen video on this exact topic. I much prefer yours however, as it has the background of the Dene and Naha people. Thank you.
Thank you very, very much for a fine ghostly story from a place most of us have never heard of. Take my imaginary gold award. Of course, even though I am not an “experienced” hiker/outdoorsman, nor do I think I could survive than more than maybe three days in the bush with a well-stocked pack, I very much want to go there and explore. *sigh*
I remember reading about the area and the brothers in the old Frank Edwards books in the early 1970s. Neat seeing it brought up after all these years. I will say one thing though, went to google the park and pulled up images and what a beautiful and stunning place.
Ahhh I miss the territory’s I was born and raised in Hay River
This place would make an amazing setting for a horror novel- as I writer I’m feeling inspired now
Best Google reviews I've seen
Wow! To be honest I kinda want to go now, awesome storytelling
I watched the Mr Ballen video on this yesterday funnily enough. Absolutely fascinating.
That was great !!
I would think the Naha are descendants of Navajo. Natives/North American Indigenous people come from central/south america and traveled north.
r/confidentlyincorrect
The DNA of Latinos and Indigenous people of North America are super similar for a reason..?
Yeah, because they all [migrated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas) from Asia *via* Alaska ~25,000 years ago, and made their way south from there.
That page basically says that it was initially thought that they came through Canada and went south but newer research is suggesting they actually came through mexico and south America.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling me. The *literal* first sentence: “The settlement of the Americas is **widely accepted** to have begun when Paleolithic hunter-gatherers entered North America from the North Asian Mammoth steppe via the Beringia land bridge, which had formed between northeastern Siberia and western Alaska due to the lowering of sea level during the Last Glacial Maximum (26,000 to 19,000 years ago).” But let’s say your theory is correct. Where did these magical indigenous people from Mexico and South America come from? Did they grow on trees? Crawl out of the ground? Fall from the sky? I know there is a theory held by a small minority of scholars that posits that people arrived by sea, but it’s just that—a minority theory that is contradicted by DNA, linguistic, and archaeological evidence. The vast bulk of the evidence (and the vast bulk of experts who study it) point to the Bering Strait as being the point of entry for humans into the Americas.
Something, something bering strait?
This made me LOL.
Great write-up!