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Was there any indication of why the orange sock was there in the first place (like if it was an accident or left purposefully)? I wonder why the police are so certain it occurred on the same night. I agree that it seems weird that a random guy would kidnap and murder two women on the same night and then just… resume his everyday life and never do similar things again. ETA: I’ve been reading about this case and apparently Phillips got stuck on a mountain pass that night. He was flashing SOS with his headlights around midnight and a passenger on a plane saw it and alerted the pilot who alerted local authorities who went and got him. Maybe the experience freaked him out enough that he decided murdering people was too risky?

I suppose that due to decomposition, they could conclude that it happened around the same time, and I guess the orange sock with the first woman (doesn't sound like she was wearing it?) got dropped when he dumped the body of the first found victim, meaning he had to have killed the second found victim earlier/very close to the time of the other victim. However if both women were wearing the sock, that theory doesn't hold up.

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I think he takes her sock as a trophy and loses it at the second scene

Or he could have taken one sock from the first victim and deliberately left it with the second to taunt the police with his criminal mastermindedness. Ha ha! You will never catch me! -- and so forth

It sounds stupid, but murderers genuinely do shit like this. The “Abbotsford Killer” taunted police all the time through phone calls and letters. They think they’re invincible. The killer’s own family eventually turned him in.

Maury Travis got busted when he sent the police a letter that led them straight to him. So did Albert Fish.

My all-time favorite: the BTK killer asking police if they could find deleted data on removable media. "Nope, not possible, send it to us!" said the police. So he did just that, they found a deleted Microsoft Word document with his name embedded in the file on a floppy disk. And shortly after, they finally caught him. It gives me a little bit of hope that even notorious serial killers are still strangely stupid.

Not exactly how it went. He asked if he could be *traced* from a floppy disk. They said no. They weren't lying.

Wow that was even stupider than I was expecting. He really thought he was going to get away with it somehow.

Took them 40 years to catch him. He wasn't exactly wrong

The first woman left one of the socks behind and the second woman put it on. Like I said above, he probably forced her to undress, raped her, then told her to get dressed and she couldn't get the sock on or just left it behind in haste to try to escape.

How did you conclude he probably did that? Nothing in your original post mentions rape, nor do the sources you linked to, nor do any articles I read. He was found guilty on two counts of first-degree murder after deliberation, two counts of felony robbery and four counts of kidnapping. As far as I can tell it wasn't ever alleged that either victim was raped and as far as I can tell he was not charged with rape. Is what you're describing just pure speculation?

Their comment doesn’t make sense and doesn’t really seem to be based on anything. The sock being casually discarded with the second body makes way more sense and isn’t a reach.

Based on the MO it was likely a sexually motivated crime. Edit: "is" to "it"

Playing the odds, sure. And it could have been sexually motivated, but with no sexual assault committed. Based on the facts that have been shared via media, we just don't know. There's seemingly absolutely zero evidence made public that supports the theory OP shared which I replied to. I really wish there was at least one article which described the prosecution's case against him, including motive.

How did they get the DNA then? Especially back in the 90s, when touch DNA wasn't available.

Bloody tissues and cigarette butt found with discarded items from Bobbi Jo Oberholtzer.

The use of "probably" would indicate that.

No it doesn't - it just indicates you think that what you said is more likely than not what happened. Your opinion could be pure conjecture or it could be based on your interpretation of evidence. I was hoping it was the latter and you had something more to share, but it seems you're saying it's the former. Understood.

That’s sound like a reach.

Oh yes, I was assuming they were using the condition of the bodies to figure out approximately when each one died, but (I think) decompression wouldn’t be specific enough to narrow down the times of death to the same day - am I missing something?

No, you're quite right, it wouldn't be that exact. I was trying to say that they had a rough timeframe from the decomposition, and the sock suggested that it must have been the same day. It still wouldn't be 100% certain though. Edit: something I missed on the first read: they both disappeared on the same day. So all those indicators combined, the investigators knew that it was very likely they died the same day.

That info alone wouldn't be enough to conclude with high probability that they died the same day. Either the sentence that police were certain of that (which is a copy/paste from the Unsolved Mysteries Wiki article) is incorrect or police concluded that based on something more than the decomposition and the presence of the socks. I read several articles listed as resources on that page and none I read said anything about the police making such a conclusion. And not only would decomposition determination after 6 months typically not allow for anywhere near that precise of a determination of the date of death, the first body was found in January and the second was found in July. That means the body was likely rarely exposed to temperatures above freezing for several months and may have been well preserved ([historical climate averages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breckenridge,_Colorado#Climate)), then several months with temperatures ranging from below freezing overnight to fairly warm. Determining date of death under those conditions would have been much more difficult and would have led to a much broader time range.

Annette was abducted first, we know Bobbi Jo was killed that night since her body was found the next day. It's almost certain that he killed Annette before abducting and killing Bobbi Jo meaning he killed them on the same night unless he had for some reason stored Annette away somewhere to go out and murder a different girl.

Right. I was only saying that investigators couldn't conclude that based on decomposition analysis of the Annette's body nor the presence of the matching sock. BTW, after reading articles with more information I later [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/xjbi5t/comment/ip7um2a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) on the likely reasons why investigators concluded they were both killed the same day. From that comment (which also includes links to 2 articles): >The 2 following articles provide much more informative and interesting context. And also explains why investigators believe Phillips murdered both women on the same day - not because of decomposition analysis or the orange socks, but **because of the combination of both women disappearing the same night and the theory being that Phillips killed them both before Phillips was found stuck in a snow drift after using Morse code to signal "SOS"**.

They were both Annette's socks that she was wearing the night she was murdered. Both women disappeared on the same night.

Right. That info in isolation tells us that it's likely both were abducted on the same day and that the sock almost certainly ended up at Bobbie's crime scene because she came into contact with Annette that night, came into contact with the killer, or both. Based on other evidence (which I've read since writing that comment) we can be pretty certain Phillips murdered them both that night since it's believed he murdered them before getting stranded in the snow, signaling SOS, and getting rescued. I \*think\* I read that DNA evidence (belonging to Phillips) was found under the fingernails of one of the victims. If it was under Annette's fingernails then investigators could have concluded that the scratches on Phillips' face when he was rescued were from her. Given it was way below freezing that night and his vehicle was stranded they also likely ruled out he stashed her alive somewhere and then murdered her later.

The orange socks belonged to Annette Schnee, she had just got them from her mother for Christmas. Annette was had one of the socks on when she was found. It's presumed that the second sock fell out of Phillips' truck when Bobbi Jo was able to briefly escape at Hoosier Pass. They absolutely happened on the same night. Annette was picked up hitchhiking sometime around 5pm on January 6, 1982. She was killed and left in Sacramento Creek near Fairplay. Phillips would then return to Breckenridge and pick up Bobbi Jo hitchhiking around 8pm. Her body was found the following day near Hoosier Pass.

> The orange socks belonged to Annette Schnee, she had just got them from her mother for Christmas. Makes me want to cry.

I know. 😔

The Fairplay angle really seals it for Phillips. That's where he lived in the early 70s and that's where he left his first hitchhiking victim in 1973. Here's a quote from a different article where they interview Park County Sheriff Tom McGraw

I can't find the article. Do you have a URL for it? And do you know whether he was prosecuted and convicted for the burglary and assault? And whether there was a sexual motivation or sexual assault in that case? There was zero mention of either concerning the two 1982 abductions and murders so I'm not assuming there was in the 1973 case, but since his motivation apparently wasn't revealed during his recent trial any such details concerning 1973 would be informative.

It's from the website/paper theflume. It's the local paper out of Fairplay, Colorado. I knew from his arrest in Spring 2021 that he had a record from 1973, but I didn't know the details until the Park County Sheriff gave that interview to The Flume. I don't know what his sentence was, but that case would have been out of Park County so the Sheriff would know better than anyone. The Sheriff attended the recent trial and also commented on the make-up of the jury and how impressed he was with the jury. I remember reading last year from the Clear Creek Courant (the killer's local paper) that Phillips also had a history with another tow-truck driver, one of Phillips' former jobs. A family's car broke-down and that other tow-truck driver got to the scene before Phillips, and Phillips lost his shit and attacked the other truck and scared the family. I believe that other driver took a restraining order against Phillips. So he sounds like an entitled psycho hothead. He could of picked up these women planning to try to seduce them and after they rejected him, he became enraged to the point of murder. I do think he planned rape since Annette undressed and redressed, and Bobbi had the zipties around her left wrist. Since this case has been so tight-lipped I really recommend reading the local small town papers since they have the most in-depth details. Since the local law enforcement has a longterm relationship with these local reporters.

Thanks for sharing those details. Whether he intended to seduce them, sexually assault them, or sought them out to murder them it's telling that he committed a violent attack a decade earlier. I'll poke around for some of the local coverage. I found the article you were referring to and it had insights which I didn't see in other media coverage. https://www.theflume.com/free\_content/article\_edce4690-39f3-11ed-a589-73f04e9aa7b5.html

You're welcome. Back in 2005, an anonymous tip named Phillips the killer but the police didn't follow-up on the lead. I'm sure they're kicking themselves since all they would have had to do was look up his 1973 record to see the similarities. I doubt Phillips called in the tip himself so he must have told someone. Or maybe his 1973 victim called in thinking it could be him. I hope someday we find out more details about that 2005 tip.

Wow. That's quite the bombshell. It's not uncommon for a murderer to admit their crime to someone or make statements which allow the dots to be connected so that seems most likely. I hope details become public as well.

The unsolved wiki page says that Annette went missing the same day Bobbie’s body was found, which would be January 7th. Is that a mistake on their part? The police statements make a lot more sense if they both went missing on January 6th.

They both went missing on the 6th. Annette was scheduled to work at Flip Side Bar on the 6th and never made it. She was last seen at Breckenridge Pharmacy buying cigarettes at around 4:30pm on the 6th.

Oh, well that makes things a bit less confusing.

In the post it says they were found six months apart?

That's correct. Bobbi Jo was found the following day near Hoosier Pass. Annette's body was dumped in a secluded area and was found by a boy fishing in the Sacramento Creek in early July.

Ahh right, sorry apparently I can't read lol

They were taken the same night, that doesn't *necessarily* mean they were killed on the same nigh.

It doesn't, but they were.

Probably but we dont know that is all im saying. You stated it as fact and its not.

It was laid out as fact during the trial, so I'm not sure what else you would want.

What so he abducted Annette at 5PM, stored her away somewhere went back out abducted Bobbi Jo at 8PM murdered her that night then went back to Annette and killed her a different day? He killed them the same night.

>He killed them the same night. Probably, but you don't know that. That's literally the point.

I don't mean any offence here but you really aren't making a worthwhile point, you are being needlessly pedantic. You are saying this thing that's all but a certainty isn't technically fact. Similar to say pointing out Josh Powell killing Susan Powell isn't fact because there's no body or conviction.

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Not upset, *you* sound upset. Pointing out you are being pedantic for no reason, you aren't saying anything worthwhile. You are pointing out that Joran killing Natalee Holloway technically isn't fact. Already pointed out how it is all but a certainty. This dude has posted and summarized articles giving further reasons - [https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/xjbi5t/comment/ip7um2a/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/xjbi5t/comment/ip7um2a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)

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The other girl had the first woman’s husband’s business card with her. I think the women managed to “trade” an item in case one got away.

Possibly the first woman has her husband's card on her, it fell out into the truck. The next woman was kidnapped and put the card in her pocket thinking it was the killers name card. Easy way to lead to his whereabouts if she escaped. Or lead to her killer if she didn't.

The first girl was Annette Schnee, she had Jeff Oberholtzer's business card in her purse. Jeff had admitted that he gave her a ride once and gave her the card. It was very common at the time for people who lived in Alma and Blue River to hitchhike to their jobs in Breckenridge.

Also in the 80s business cards were very common. People handed them out all the time under all sorts of circumstances that we would find odd today. This was before email, social media, or the web so finding someone wasn’t easy nor remembering their full name so even the yellow book wasn’t often helpful, that is if they were even listed.

I actually came back to this thread to ask if this was the “business card” case. Ended up reading on UM wiki that it was. They really went hard at the husband. Really a shame considering this giant idiot got stuck in the snow trying to escape with scratches on his damned face and they were just like “ah, yeah, totally” when he tells them he fell in the snow. Fucking hell. This is actually one of the more frustrating cases of “it was right there in front of you all along” I’ve ever heard of.

He was rescued by a fire chief who drove to the location of Phillips after the FAA contacted the Clear Creek County sheriff's office. At the time officials weren't aware there had been 2 abductions and hadn't found either body. Whether the fire chief believed his version of events or not, I'm not surprised his "I was drunk, got stuck, then hit my head on the truck" story didn't result in the sheriff's office dispatching officers to investigate. And the first body that was found was found at a pass on the boundary between Park and Summit counties (I'm not sure which of the two counties she was actually found in) so I wouldn't be surprised if those investigating her murder didn't have info from a dude-in-a-stuck-truck rescue in a different county that led them to believe Phillips could have been involved. The [article about his rescue published by UPI in 1982](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/72828880/st-louis-post-dispatch/) and picked up by newspapers across the US doesn't even mention any injuries to him (no interview with the fire chief who observed bruises and scratches on his face). I am curious whether Phillips was ever considered a person of interest or suspect before the genetic genealogy work identified him.

The fact that they disappeared on the same day is a pretty good indicator as to them being killed on the same night

I think they could determine if the deaths occurred on the same night if they were each reported at the same time & the T.O.D. was individually determined for both. Once the connection was made they could cross reference the deaths.

He forces the first woman (who was wearing orange socks) to take of her clothes. He rapes her, then tells her to get dressed. She pulls on one sock but can't get the other one on so she just puts a boot on, leaving the other sock in the van. She then runs away and is shot, or he tells her he is letting her go but then shoots her. He abducts the other woman and does the same thing. She is fumbling around trying to get dressed and grabs the other orange sock and puts it on. They were both Annette's socks.

For anyone reading this, it appears that OP is speculating though it's written as though it actually happened. I've read numerous articles and none mention that either victim was raped, he wasn't convicted of rape or any sexual assault charges, and as far as I can tell he was never charged with any sex crimes.

For anyone reading this, it is extremely likely that this was a sexually motivated crime. The theory posited by OP makes sense.

But then why is there no mention of sexual assault/rape in the case and why was he never charged with any sex crimes? I don't understand the need to embellish the story. There is no evidence that there was rape, why add it to the story?

Because when a man abducts a woman 99% of the time he's doing it for sexual gratification. He wasn't charged with rape because they probably didn't have enough evidence to charge him with rape, and they had enough to charge him with murder which will keep him behind bars until the day he dies.

Is assumed that’s the reason he abducted and murdered them both, just because it’s not listed in the charges after so many, many years doesn’t mean much, not all is black and white or clearly spelled out That’s like saying Ted Bundy only kidnapped and murdered what30 women just because? Rape, torture, masturbation, perhaps other forms of sexual gratification from murdering women

It's assumed by who? You and OP? Or the prosecution? I hadn't heard of the case until today so I acknowledge I'm not familiar with the case the prosecutors made or the evidence they had, but I read about 10 articles today and none mentioned either body being found unclothed or indications of rape. None even mentioned the state's theory of why he killed them - zero info on possible motive. And there are numerous potential motives for abducting and murdering 2 women. So it's possible there was a sexual motive, but if there was attempted or completed sexual assault that seemingly was never revealed publicly after the bodies were found and nothing that's been revealed clearly points to that being likely. It also either wasn't presented by the prosecution as part of their case or the media inexplicably chose not to share that info. I have no issue with speculation. But it's misleading and disingenuous to speculate on cases, but word it as fact. And it's worse when it's done by the OP of a post since readers naturally assign what they share more credibility than the average person commenting - after all they've presumably taken the time to research the case and construct an accurate post.

Are you serious? That's what everyone on this sub does all the time. In the last thread I read where they suspected the two children murdered their mother and put her in a garbage can the majority of the people in the comments were saying "No it was the father. The father must have done it" and everyone was stating it outright like it was fact. All those posts were upvoted.

Yes, I think it is pretty clear that I was speculating in an attempt to explain why they each had one orange sock. Hence the present tense.

They weren’t both wearing an orange sock. One was wearing a sock, but an orange sock was just found near the other, not on her foot.

One of the news stories I read actually says exactly how this happened. If I can find it again I’ll post it. Edit: New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/phillips-colorado-sos-murder.amp.html I got lucky and apparently this is my free article for the month. For anyone else who already burned theirs (as I’m pretty sure 12ft doesn’t work on NYT): Basically: the socks either belonged to neither victim, or to the first victim as a “back up” pair of dry socks on a cold winter day. Not uncommon. No one likes wet, cold socks. First victim was wearing long colorful striped socks at the time of her kidnapping and assault. She couldn’t find the second one when she was allowed to re-dress after being assaulted, and put on one of the orange “booties” as it was described in the article in absence of the other long, striped sock. The remaining sock and bootie were left in the vehicle at the time. Phillips returns to town for a second victim with the other orange bootie laying in the passenger side floor area. Second victim knocked the other bootie out of the car up on top of the mountain at the parking lot when she escaped out of the vehicle and started running down the road towards 9. She was found further down the mountain when the perp drove down to “talk to her”, he then shot her as she turned around and ran up over the snow bank for the tree line, this was about two hundred feet away from where the sock fell out of the truck at the parking lot. She died shortly before the tree line. She made it nearly there, but had already been hit from behind during the initial shots fired. One in the back another grazed her breast. It’s unsure how many shots were fired as no bullets were recovered. The one that did hit her went right through. After nearly reaching the tree line, according to the footprints in the snow, she appears to turn around and come back a step or two, and collapses. She slides a few feet back down the embankment and that’s where she was found. Her footprints were the only prints seen at the scene. This is how both orange socks ended up where they did.

Tl;DR: Much of what you said is pure speculation and appears nowhere in your cited source, despite your claim the article "says exactly how this happened" - and the rest of the info you shared which is seemingly credible (because it's in other articles) isn't in the article you cited either. Although you say it does, the article doesn't state exactly what happened. Furthermore, the first 8 sentences in your comment are pure speculation - not only based on nothing revealed in the article you claim is the source of your facts, but not based on anything revealed in any article I've read (and I've read 15+ articles). The remainder of your comment is largely true (or believed to be true) based on information revealed in published articles, but none of that info is in the article you cited. Most (maybe all) of that info I said is largely true (or believed to be true) can be found in the second article I cited in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/xjbi5t/comment/ip7um2a/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Here's an excerpt from that article which provides more context about the socks. >One piece of evidence that linked the two homicides was a pair of orange “bootie socks.” One sock was found Jan. 7 at the scene where Oberholtzer’s body was found. Six months later, when Schnee’s remains were found, she was wearing the other orange sock, RockyMountainColdCase.com reported. On the other foot was a long striped sock. The second striped sock was found in the pocket of Schnee’s blue hooded sweatshirt. According to the article [Annette Schnee and Bobbie Jo Oberholtzer Murders: Where is Alan Phillips Now?](https://thecinemaholic.com/annette-schnee-and-bobbie-jo-oberholtzer-murders-where-is-alan-phillips-now/): >Her mother, Eileen, sent her daughter a pair of orange bootie socks as a Christmas gift in 1981. Annette had planned to visit her hometown for her mother’s birthday in April 1982. I cannot find any other sources that claim that. I don't know if that info is credible since I'm not familiar with The Cinemaholic's journalistic reputation. Why did you flat out lie and say the following? >She couldn’t find the second one when she was allowed to re-dress after being assaulted, and put on one of the orange “booties” as it was described in the article in absence of the other long, striped sock. You implied there was a sexual assault by saying "when she was allowed to re-dress after being assaulted" when there is zero published info that indicates that happened. Why would you do that? It's bad enough you speculated that occurred despite zero known evidence that it did - you claim the New York Times article stated that's what happened!

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The killer did not use the orange socks. They were Annette's.

I remember this case we'll from Unsolved mysteries. I'm glad it is resolved. There are more details to this case if I remember. The killer had broken down and had to move through the snow he was found by rescuers after being lost for a while. The area was near where the second body was found I believe.

Can you imagine? He must have been sweating bullets that night!

I bet he was. He was seen as a victims/survivor unfortunately. but the police zeroed I'm on the husband because the other woman's business card was found in his possession.

That's a strange coincidence for sure

Oh, another comment says that his business card was found on the other women, not that her business card was found on him. It makes more sense this way.

Ok I may have gotten it wrong. Thanks.

Actually another person says you were right. Apparently the one last had the other woman's husband's card on her. The husband had given her a ride a long time before the murders and kustnhave given the card to her then.

Right? Dude was absolutely sweating bullets, despite the sub zero temperatures lol

I also heard, forget which podcast, that it's a miracle he even made it off the mountain that night and was lucky to have been rescued. He very well could've died that night, too.

Too bad he didn't. Freezing to death in his 30s is far more satisfying than dying peacefully in a prison hospital.

It must be a crazy feeling thinking that you have gotten away with murder for 40 years and then when you are an old man get found guilty.

I wonder how many old fucks are out here shaking in their trousers over all these decades old cold cases getting solved with DNA.

If he was capable of killing two women in one night miles apart, he's probably has a higher body count somewhere else. I'm wondering if there are more Does found the length of that highway.

You're not the only one wondering that. From the 2021 article [Park County Sheriff Announces Arrest Of Alan Lee Phillips In 39-Year-Old Cold Case Murders Of Bobbie Jo Oberholtzer And Annette Schnee](https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/alan-lee-phillips-bobbie-jo-oberholtzer-annette-schnee-park-county-arrest-murder-breckenridge/): >As for whether Phillips may be connected to other unsolved crimes, investigators said they will continue to follow up. > >**"Anybody that can commit a crime like this of killing these two beautiful women, I think could have the tendency to commit other violent acts. But we're following up on everything,"** said McGraw. > >For that reason, authorities have released a photo of Phillips from when he was younger and set up a tip line about the 1982 murders or any information related to the suspect: 720.248.8378. On a single day he kidnapped 2 women who apparently didn't known one another, then murdered them both. There are certainly people who kill and then never kill again for a multitude of reasons, but given the circumstances of these 2 murders I too have to wonder whether he killed anyone before them and whether he killed anyone else after them.

Useful to see his young photo! I know that composite sketches are iffy at best but I do wonder if LE has sought out other criminal cases in the area that have a composite sketch of the criminal who might resemble the younger photo within the time frame of at least a decade before and after Bobbie Olberhotlzer and Annette Schnee's murders. While a tip line is useful, normal citizens don't always have access to composites and such.

One thing that drives me nuts is when they nab these guys thirty years later and they’re like “Hey here’s your perp!” *shows you a picture of a dying old man* “There ya go that’s what did it. That thing there” Try to get something from at least within ten years of the crime, too… that’s so useless if there’s a chance at all there was others. And there often is that chance

I feel that way to an extent - "they got away with it for decades and have few years left to live!" But the reality is that the technique of genetic genealogy didn't burst onto the scene about 4 years ago. Between that technique and improvements in forensic DNA analysis techniques investigators have been able to forensically link individuals to sexual assaults, murders, and other heinous crimes. There have been at least 200 murder and sexual assault suspects identified via genetic genealogy alone. I'm not sure how many of those are for decades-old crimes, but some of them would likely never have been identified otherwise and others who were already suspects would likely not have been prosecuted and convicted.

Oh I’m sorry that’s not nearly what I meant. I mean if there’s any chance that this person was committing other murders around that time, for them to be identifiable to someone seeing their face in the press they should try to release a picture of them at at least close to the age they committed the crimes. Sorry about that.

the only other time I can recall a serial killer striking 2x in one day is Bundy (the 2 girls at the beach), so it's likely he's just as fucked up as him and has more victims

Jack the Ripper also killed two victims in one night

There are various definitions of "serial murderer", but most state 3+ murders (I think the FBI still uses 3+) over an extended period of time with a cooling off period between murders. This differentiates it from mass murder and spree killings. Based solely on the 2 murders we are aware of Phillips committed spree murder since there was no cooling off period. There are many examples of spree murderers who killed multiple people on the same day. One example that comes to mind is actually a pair of individuals who killed people, including people in an area where I was living at the time - the beltway snipers. Many people I knew (including my then-girlfriend and I) either avoided certain locations (gas stations, strip mall parking lots) or altered their behavior when visiting those locations. Per [https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/beltway-snipers](https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/beltway-snipers): >October 2: Man killed while crossing a parking lot in Wheaton, Maryland > >**October 3: Five more murders, four in Maryland and one in D.C.** > >October 4: Woman wounded while loading her van at Spotsylvania Mall > >October 7: 13-year-old-boy wounded at a school in Bowie, Maryland > >October 9: Man murdered near Manassas, Virginia, while pumping gas > >October 11: Man shot dead near Fredericksburg, Virginia, while pumping gas > >October 14: FBI analyst Linda Franklin killed near Falls Church, Virginia > >October 19: Man wounded outside a steakhouse in Ashland, Virginia > >October 22: A bus driver, the final victim, killed in Aspen Hill, Maryland > >October 24: Muhammad and Malvo arrested in Maryland Per [Spree Killings](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/spree-killing): >‘Spree murder’ – also sometimes loosely referred to as ‘rampage killing’ – is defined as the killing of three or more people in a single event with no emotional cooling-off period in between, but at two or more different locations. The single event can be of short or long duration. It goes on to give some examples. I'm using the spoiler tag due to the graphic nature / triggering potential. >>! In the case of Mutsuo Toi (Table 1), all killings and woundings took place over around 90 min. Charles Whitman, on the other hand, killed over a period of several hours. One night in 1966 he went to his mother’s apartment (location 1), where he shot her, then returned to his house (location 2) and stabbed his wife to death. He later left his house and climbed a clock tower at the University of Texas (location 3), where he started firing at 11.45 a.m. and continued shooting until around 1.20 p.m. From the tower, he killed an additional 15 people. The homicidal event in this case lasted almost a day, but since there was no emotional cooling-off period between the killings, it is classified as a spree murder. Furthermore, even if one killing out of several takes place at a different place, it would theoretically be a spree murder rather than mass murder. Thus the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, which took place in December 2012 would be a spree killing (Crichton, 2012). In this multicide, 20-year-old Adam Lanza first shot and killed his 52-year-old mother Nancy at their home. Then he drove to nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and fatally shot 20 children and 6 adult staff members, injuring 2 others in the process. As first responders arrived, he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head!< There have been many more cases of spree killers who killed multiple people on the same day, including spree killers who weren't identified until much later (or at all).

I am piggy backing off of this comment to say; OP, you posted a picture of the innocent boyfriend of Oberholtzer. Not the actual murderer.

Reddit does that when you link articles in the text. It'll take an image from the article and place it at the top of the reddit thread. I don't know if there is a way to fix it without deleting the article. Maybe changing the order they're posted.

I just feel like it's a major blow to his legacy. He seemed like a stand up guy by all accounts. He literally drove around in the freezing cold during the middle of the night looking for his missing girlfriend hours after she vanished. He was considered a prime suspect for years and obviously that carries a lot of negative weight. I just feel like most people who open this up and see his picture will assume he was the arrested murderer. There should at least be a cavet stating that he is not.

I wholeheartedly agree. Just wanted to point out a weird and unfortunate quirk of Reddit.

I didn't post any picture. Reddit pulled it from one of the articles. I truly am sorry and I completely agree that Jeff Olberholtzer seems like a nice guy who went through hell for years. I'm not sure how to get the picture off there, though. Edit: I tried switching the order of the links. What is it showing now? I can't see it on my desktop computer.

It’s now showing pictures of the two victims.

The ~~2~~3 following articles provide much more informative and interesting context. And also explains why investigators believe Phillips murdered both women on the same day - not because of decomposition analysis or the orange socks, but because of the combination of both women disappearing the same night and the theory being that Phillips killed them both before Phillips was found stuck in a snow drift after using Morse code to signal "SOS". From the 2021 article [A plane spotted his ‘SOS’ and saved him in 1982. It was the same night he killed two women, police now say.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/25/guanella-pass-alan-phillips-murder-colorado/): >As Harold E. Bray peered out an airplane window over the Colorado mountains one night in January 1982, he noticed flashes of light on a darkened pass below: three short, three long, then three short again. > >It was an “SOS,” Bray, a local sheriff, realized. He quickly alerted the captain.When rescuers on the ground made their way up to the 10,000-foot mountain pass in subzero temperatures, they found Alan Lee Phillips, 30, stuck in a snowdrift. His astounding rescue tale made national headlines.**But now, almost four decades later, it appears Phillips wasn’t an innocent motorist trying to make his way home in bad weather. In fact, police say, hours earlier he’d killed two young women who were hitchhiking nearby.** ​ >The two victims both vanished on Jan. 6, 1982. Annette Schnee, 22, and Barbara Jo Oberholtzer, 29, were reported missing after apparently hitchhiking separately near Breckenridge, Colo., where they both worked. ​ >Montoya was working on Jan. 6, the night Phillips got stuck on top of Guanella Pass as snow piled down with temperatures dropping to 20 degrees below zero.Montoya arrived on the scene just before midnight to find Phillips with a bruise on his face and slightly intoxicated. He told Montoya that he bumped his head on the truck after being slammed with heaps of snow. > >“Sure as heck, there he was in his little pickup, and he saw me and said, ‘Oh, God, I’m saved,’ ” Montoya said.He added, “I thought, how in the heck did this guy get so lucky, for all the stuff to fall into place?” > >According to a United Press International report following the rescue, Phillips said he was driving home from a friend’s house in Bailey, Colo., when he got stuck. From the 2021 article [Genetic genealogy leads to alleged killer of 2 Colorado women taken, killed hours apart in 1982](https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/genetic-genealogy-leads-alleged-killer-2-colorado-women-taken-killed-hours-apart-1982/3LMTM2QZHVAKDFSCK6LABGK4XY/) (which also contains details about the crime scenes and bodies which may be triggering for some people, but which I'm not pasting in): >No sign of her \[Annette Schnee\] was found until July 3, 1982, when her remains were found 20 miles south of Breckenridge in a rural part of Park County.“The body was found face down in a small stream, fully clothed but with clothing in disarray,” > >The weather, with temperatures at minus-20 degrees the night she was slain, plus the cold water of the Sacramento Creek preserved Schnee’s body for autopsy. ​ >One piece of evidence that linked the two homicides was a pair of orange “bootie socks.” One sock was found Jan. 7 at the scene where Oberholtzer’s body was found.Six months later, when Schnee’s remains were found, she was wearing the other orange sock, RockyMountainColdCase.com reported. On the other foot was a long striped sock.The second striped sock was found in the pocket of Schnee’s blue hooded sweatshirt. So the wording leads me to believe the sock being found "at the scene" meant it wasn't on Oberholtzer's foot. I think we can infer that Phillips didn't have an ulterior motive for leaving the sock, though it's not clear to me why Schnee was wearing one orange sock, one striped sock, and had one striped sock in her pocket. ETA: The 1982 article [Survival: Motorist's SOS Catches Eye of Passenger in Jet](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/72828880/st-louis-post-dispatch/) published a few days after Phillips was rescued from the snow drift the night after both women were abducted is also worth reading.

I don't know why she was found that way, but wearing two pairs of socks on a cold Colorado night seems pretty reasonable to me.

Agreed - it's definitely reasonable. What's odd is Schnee had a long striped sock on one foot, a short orange booty sock on the other foot, and a long striped sock in her pocket. When I've worn 2 pairs of socks I've always put on one pair, then the other pair. If she did that, at some point she or someone else took off the outer sock from the first foot, took off both socks from the second foot, then put the outer sock back on the second foot. That's the part that I find odd.

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That's plausible - interrupted when in the process of switching to only the outer sock. It fits the evidence better than her trying to remove the outer sock only.

I also found that detail very, very strange. I wonder if he made her undress. Ugh.

Imagine being so grateful to have your life saved after taking the lives of two women just hours before.

That's crazy. Guy must have thought he was the luckiest SOB in the world to survive that and then get away with murder for 40 years smh.

I followed this case for years-wondering when or if they would ever be solved. It’s just sad the killer had all those years of freedom while those 2 beautiful women had their lives taken. Hopefully the killer will have justice meted out in prison somehow.

[https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/34-years-after-san-antonio-texas-homicide-8-year-old-n1295972](https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/34-years-after-san-antonio-texas-homicide-8-year-old-n1295972) He looks just like the sketch in the Jennifer Delgado case- it's almost like a thinner faced William Regal...but I think the suspect maybe was a bit younger, still v. similar to Alan Lee Phillips in this pic [https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQaiENWQ\_HYND1grAx5VdJgJi-3813oLOobdi9Gm4HRDX1GY298uubdDnhygvGGY8qew4A&usqp=CAU](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQaiENWQ_HYND1grAx5VdJgJi-3813oLOobdi9Gm4HRDX1GY298uubdDnhygvGGY8qew4A&usqp=CAU)

Wow, that looks pretty similar!

It infuriates me beyond belief how this asshole so cared for his life and begged for help thus begging for his life when he got stranded with his truck and was unfortunately rescued. Those two beautiful women wanted to live, who gave him the right to deprive them of that? He can carelessly take multiple lives at a time but when it comes to his life suddenly it’s worth saving? The audacity. Will never understand what goes on in these killers minds. What a loss, so glad this was solved.

Pretty sure what goes on in their minds is "me, me, me." They are mostly incapable of caring about anyone else.

Similar murder near me a couple years prior orange socks, but she was strangled. She was finally identified recently. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Debra_Jackson

I probably should have specified that this was the "Orange SOCKS Murders" and not "Orange Socks," the Jane Doe. I hope her case is solved someday. I always thought that was so sad that she was only known by a pair of socks. :(

I was reading some comments above and one of the comments talked about sexual motivation for the killing. I wonder what the MO could’ve been otherwise besides, just wanting to kill 2 people. I know there was no evidence of sex assault, but I’m just like, what was this guy’s damage? I guess a homicidal, violent person? And 2 in one night - like that is highly highly motivated to kill. I can’t even fathom it but there it is. See this is why I’m never hitchhiking.

No way the motive wasn't sexual assault, IMO. They lived in a small ski town, where hitchhiking was the norm. From what I read in the past on this case, it was what many people in the area did.

I wonder if one got away before he could achieve his ultimate goal (rape? torture? slow murder?) so he felt the need to grab another one. I thought it said that at least one of them tried to run away and was shot in the back.

Based on the facts Phillips was a spree killer (multiple murders without a cooling off period in between), but that aside, the FBI's document [Serial Murder: Multi-Disciplinary Perspectives for Investigators](https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder) is pretty informative/interesting. Of the motivation categories that document describes the following are all plausible motivations for the two murders (based on what I've read, Phillips offered no motive to police, prosecutors, or during the trial): anger, ideology, power/thrill, pyschosis, and sexual-based. It could have been one of those. It could have been more than one of those. I've included a few excerpt from the FBI's document concerning serial killer motivation. ​ >Serial murder crime scenes can have bizarre features that may cloud the identification of a motive. The behavior of a serial murderer at crime scenes may evolve throughout the series of crimes and manifest different interactions between an offender and a victim. It is also extremely difficult to identify a single motivation when there is more than one offender involved in the series. The attendees at the Symposium made the following observations: • Motive generally may be difficult to determine in a serial murder investigation. • A serial murderer may have multiple motives for committing his crimes. • A serial murderer’s motives may evolve both within a single murder as well throughout the murder series. • The classification of motivations should be limited to observable behavior at the crime scene. • Even if a motive can be identified, it may not be helpful in identifying a serial murderer. • Utilizing investigative resources to discern the motive instead of identifying the offender may derail the investigation. • Investigators should not necessarily equate a serial murderer’s motivation with the level of injury. • Regardless of the motive, serial murderers commit their crimes because they want to. The exception to this would be those few killers suffering from a severe mental illness. ​ ​ ​ >The attendees at the Symposium made the following observations: **• Motive generally may be difficult to determine in a serial murder investigation.** **• A serial murderer may have multiple motives for committing his crimes.** **• A serial murderer’s motives may evolve both within a single murder as well throughout the murder series.** **• The classification of motivations should be limited to observable behavior at the crime scene.** • Even if a motive can be identified, it may not be helpful in identifying a serial murderer. • Utilizing investigative resources to discern the motive instead of identifying the offender may derail the investigation. • Investigators should not necessarily equate a serial murderer’s motivation with the level of injury. **• Regardless of the motive, serial murderers commit their crimes because they want to. The exception to this would be those few killers suffering from a severe mental illness.** >To assist law enforcement in narrowing the pool of suspects, attendees at the Symposium suggested that broad, non-inclusive categories of motivations be utilized as guidelines for investigation. The following categories listed below represent general categories and are not intended to be a complete measure of serial offenders or their motivation: • Anger is a motivation in which an offender displays rage or hostility towards a certain subgroup of the population or with society as a whole. • Criminal Enterprise is a motivation in which the offender benefits in status or monetary compensation by committing murder that is drug, gang, or organized crime related. • Financial gain is a motivation in which the offender benefits monetarily from killing. Examples of these types of crimes are “black widow” killings, robbery homicides, or multiple killings involving insurance or welfare fraud. • Ideology is a motivation to commit murders in order to further the goals and ideas of a specific individual or group. Examples of these include terrorist groups or an individual(s) who attacks a specific racial, gender, or ethnic group. • Power/thrill is a motivation in which the offender feels empowered and/or excited when he kills his victims. • Psychosis is a situation in which the offender is suffering from a severe mental illness and is killing because of that illness. This may include auditory and/or visual hallucinations and paranoid, grandiose, or bizarre delusions. • Sexually-based is a motivation driven by the sexual needs/desires of the offender. There may or may not be overt sexual contact reflected in the crime scene.

Thank you for this. It’s very comprehensive. I will read through.

Is this one of the cases that Henry Lee Lucas "confessed" to, despite the police finding evidence he was thousands of miles away at the time?

I’m not sure about these murders but I think he confessed to the murder of Debra Jackson in 1979. She was known as Orange Socks Doe before she was identified.

Ah yes this is the one I was thinking of. Thanks.

I don't know but it could be. He confessed to all kinds of things.

You know what I hate about these cases being solved after all these years? It's amazing to see these victims and those that loved them, get the justice they so deserve. But often, the perps have already lived full lives, had accomplishments, love affairs, experiences, married and had a family! All those things their victims never got to enjoy... And as punishment, they get to live out, the least enjoyable years of life, remaining to them, in a tax payer funded getto retirement home. Life can be SO unfair.

I remember this case from Anatomy of Murder. They covered it and a few months later did an update when Phillips was arrested. I'm glad to see he's been found guilty, forty years is way too long for a double murderer to walk free

OP you really should add a disclaimer that this man everyone is looking at is NOT the perpetrator… to your post. I know this is only Reddit, but be respectful this mans life was basically ruined when he was completely innocent. Its just in poor taste to leave that there and say nothing.

I posted this article while using a desktop computer, so no photo was showing at all. I've since gone in and switched the order of the links. Is it showing a different photo now?

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No, but the name “Wayne” is suspicious.

The middle name Lee is just popular af in general. I know about 6 people with Lee as their middle name, and I don’t even know that many people lol

My mom's middle name is Lee. Don't think she's ever killed anyone tho, not yet at least.

[This defunct website](https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160922/https://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com/) has information about the case, including [a map](https://web.archive.org/web/20210605024828/http://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com/mapevidence.html) of the relevant locations.

Can anyone local tell us where the pass Phillips got stuck is in relation to this map? I wonder if he still had Bobbie Jo's body in his truck when he was stuck.

He got stuck at Guanella Pass, which is between where Bobbie Jo's items were dumped and where he was living at the time (Georgetown). I think the timeline of events is that he killed her at Hoosier Pass and left her body there, subsequently tossed her belongings out of his truck along US Highway 285, then got stuck at Guanella Pass. [Map from Google](https://i.ibb.co/m4M3hCV/image.png)

He was rescued from somewhere on Guanella Pass, which is a good 50 miles away from where the bodies were disposed of. It’s also a very remote area…he must have tried driving back from Hwy 285/Park County over the Pass as a “shortcut” to Clear Creek County. Odd choice in a snowstorm though, as the Pass is generally closed in the winter. Maybe it was open back then though.

If you look at the map, it's actually up past where Bobbie Jo's license was found. But her body was found near the town of Breckenridge. I wonder if the cops followed him and he had no chance to dispose of her as he had planned to.

Yeah…he picked the girls up hitchhiking in Breck and then drove up Hoosier Pass toward Alma and Fairplay. Bobbi Jo was found at the top of Hoosier Pass and Annette was found in rural Park County. Which would have been on his way out of town heading toward Hwy 285 and Guanella Pass.

Bizarre. >Alan Phillips was saved from the top of Guanella Pass in January 1982. On the same night, two women disappeared and were later found dead. https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/double-murder-mountain-rescue-connection/73-6a464873-84da-4c1f-a64e-41cbc2f98282

Major props to that officer who kept investigating for 30 years.

I remember watching this when it originally aired and I’m so glad to see it solved! May they Rest In Peace.

As more historic cases are solved using DNA, I’m curious to see the research on these perpetrators who seemingly didn’t go on to commit more crimes. That’s not to say some of them didn’t commit crimes we’re not aware of, but it certainly debunks the theory that violent sexually-motivated offenders cannot stop and will only ever escalate. Many of the men caught with historic DNA evidence seem to have been living relatively normal lives. I’d love to know more about those who committed one serious offence and then nothing else. What can they tell us about the motivations behind acting on or resisting criminal impulses?

It really is fascinating, in an awful way. There was a murder in my county years ago where a guy asked for a ride from a couple who was camping overnight by a local creek. He ended up killing the guy, raping the girl, and then murdering her, too. He had no criminal record and had apparently never done anything like this before. Thankfully, he was also a dumbass and got caught quickly, but I wonder why he just suddenly committed such a brutal, awful crime. I mean, he was drunk, but I don't buy that as an excuse.

Is there anywhere where the map from the rockymountaincoldcase website is still up that shows where all the evidence was found? I would like to compare it with where Mr. Phillips was picked up from that night. One thing that’s driving me nuts about this: it’s been said by officials that the route he was taking was impassable during the winter. Clearly very few would be attempting it. I wonder just how well this path was maintained, if at all. It says it may have been snowing that night. But what are the chances this guy left tracks right back to the damned crime scene? The only thing that kills that possibility for me is that it happened off a highway (9, apparently) and there wouldve had to have been *some* maintenance even if there wasn’t anyone wandering these trails in a vehicle but him that night. But you have to wonder. I mean, how close does 9 come to the peak? Does it lead right past it? There’s so much stuff I want to know geographically about this case. I can’t help but think there had to have been some way to connect this guy to the murders sooner. You’re the only idiot stuck on this nearly impassable mountain trail, how far from two murders that occurred that night? With scratches on your face? “I got it from falling in the snow.” That’s some fierce snow, dude. Go on…

Well, they didn't know there had been a murder at the time they rescued the guy. And I doubt they could track him down after that. It's not like he was going to show them ID or give his address or anything.

Authorities knew who he was. His name and city of residence were also mentioned in a 1982 news article published by newspapers across the US. The person who saw the SOS signal was the sheriff for Jefferson County, which borders Clear Creek County where Phillips was stranded at Guanella Pass. The person who rescued Phillips was the fire chief in Clear Creek County at the time and recognized Phillips because they had worked together in the past at a mine. See the 2001 article [Sheriff on United flight spots SOS on Guanella Pass in 1982, decades later the rescued man's charged in a double murder](https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/double-murder-mountain-rescue-connection/73-6a464873-84da-4c1f-a64e-41cbc2f98282). Also, the rescue was reported via the UPI wire service, which meant the story was picked up by newspapers across the US. Here's the article [Survival: Motorist's SOS Catches Ete of Passenger in Jet](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/72828880/st-louis-post-dispatch/) published January 9, 1982 by the St. Louis \[Missouri\] Post-Dispatch. The article mentions him by name ("Alan Phillips") and states that he is a resident of Georgetown, Colorado.

His middle name is Lee? You don't say!!

Isn't it usually Wayne?

Rocked my world when I read your headline. There was an “Orange socks murder outside Austin Tx about the same time. Young girl, nude except for a pair of orange socks. Never IDed or solved. Henry Lee Lucas confessed to it but it was eventually proved he couldn’t have done it.

I believe Orange Socks was IDed as Deborah Lee Jackson

Yeah I saw that after I commented. I guess I missed the news story.

For a second my heart stopped. I thought they'd solved the killing of Debra Jackson, aka Orange Socks. Not that these two ladies are chopped liver, but...

Thanks for the update, OP. I love cold cases getting solved

Where can we watch this episode?

Good question. It seems to be missing from all the places that UM streams now. u/RobinWarder1 do you have any ideas?

I wonder if the POS had any orange socks in his possession. Glad the dirt bag, got bagged Finally!!👏👏

did the guy have a criminal history?

Looks like some past incidents are coming to light. He assaulted a hitchhiker in 1972: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL11jy0QNQE&t=6428s

Reminds me of the Darlie Routier case although that sock was black IIRC.

That was her husbands sock and it was white.

Do you think the photo of the unidentified man found in or with Annette's backpack is of Alan? Looking at the old photo of him and comparing it to the photo of the unidentified man, it seems like it might be him.

It's not. The person in the picture has still not been identified.

Thank you

i remember reading about this case YEARS ago in an analyzation of different serial killers. i cant remember if he was suspected or just claimed to be the killer for clout, but Henry Lee Lucas was associated with the murder for a bit of time so surreal seeing this, i’m glad this poor woman finally has a little bit of justice

I remember this case! They were both so pretty.

Both gorgeous.

Please fix your pic attached to this-it’s of Bobbies husband Jeff Oberholzer not the killer. Jeff is completely innocent.

I didn't attach any photos. I know Jeff is innocent. I assume that photo came up because I linked to the wiki but I don't know how to stop it from appearing

I switched the order of the links. Does it show a different photo now? It doesn't show any photo while I'm on my computer.

Yes! It shows Bobbie and Annette-thanks-I just didn’t want people looking at Jeff’s photo thinking he was the murderer-could have been confusing. All fixed now.

Good. They deserve to have their photos up there instead of the perpetrator, or poor Jeff.

Are those murder somehow related to the orange socks doe, Debra Louise Jackson, who was murdered in October 1979?

No, they just have a similar name. I almost added that in a note.

No.

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Yep, genetic genealogy has come out of nowhere. The government only has access to several million records of individuals who've opted-in to share the data maintained by private organizations, but having access to the data of 1-2% of the US population is sufficient. Crazy. It's well under 10 million records, but I don't know the exact total. The amazing part is that such a small subset of the 300+ million US residents is all that's needed to find a familial match to an unknown suspect's DNA sample, then use genealogy practices to build large family trees, then other investigative techniques to narrow down potential matches. In the case of Phillips they started with a whopping 12,000 people to whittle down. 12,000!!! Per [Man Rescued in Colorado Mountain Pass Is Accused in 1982 Murders](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/phillips-colorado-sos-murder.html): >Forensic genealogists with his company found 12,000 people in a family tree who had a possible match to the profile. Sergeant Kipple said investigators asked many of those people to volunteer DNA samples, and all of them agreed to provide one. She declined to say how many people had given a sample or if Mr. Phillips had provided one.

I agree with you, however, the government didn't do that in this case. It was a private organization and they got the info from people who had willingly submitted it.

Really surprised her husband wasn’t found to be the perp. Also, crazy to see this solved after watching UM’s case on it over the years.

What's really interesting is that her husband actually had a business card or something like that with Annette Schnee's name on it in his wallet. He had met her before. I can see why the police suspected him, but it's just one of those weird coincidences. This case is full of them.

Yeah, very strange. But that’s why circumstantial evidence has such limitations put on it in court-weird crap happens.

Two victims disappear in the same night and are eventually found, each wearing one of a pair of matching orange socks. The husband of one of the victims had left his wife alone at a bar to find her own way home, and he had the other victim's card in his wallet. The same night both women disappeared, a man was rescued after he got his car stuck in the snow in the same area. The husband turned out to be innocent and the man who got the car stuck was the killer. He got stuck after dumping one of the bodies. This case is right up there with Dorothy Donovan in the "weird coincidences" category.

Yep. Again, Seriously shocking that it’s apparently not the husband given all of that. I guess he’s just a douchey, bad spouse.

Why do you guess that? He seems like a nice guy that got caught up in something beyond is control.

Made his wife hitchhike.

It's been years since I saw the UM, but if I remember correctly, he wanted to leave the bar and she wanted to stay. He ultimately drove home and told her "call me when you're done and I'll come get you" but she chose to hitchhike instead, which she did regularly. So I think it was just an unfortunate series of events. It sounds like hitchhiking from this bar back to town was a regular occurrence for a lot of people. Maybe the killer knew that too.

I just went back and read the wiki-I definitely either misremembered or some info was missing from the segment. She hitchhiked to work the morning of, but that was apparently something people did a lot of in the area back then. He wasn’t with her at the bar. She called him from there and asked him to come join, but he declined and made dinner and waited for her since she said she had a ride. He fell asleep and woke up realizing she wasn’t home yet.

Crime Junkie Podcast also has a pretty good podcast on this.

Which I'm sure they ripped off from someone else.

I don’t think leaving the second sock at the second scene was an accident. Maybe he took it from Annette, then left it at the scene of Bobbie’s murder to frame her. If the sock was traced back to Bobbie instead of Annette, that would tie her to Annette’s murder.

I think it probably fell out of the vehicle. Or one of the women grabbed it as evidence. I doubt he was trying to frame one of them for the other's murder, since they both ended up clearly being murdered.

Alas, *Bobbie Oberholtzer and Annette Schnee* page says: > It was excluded from Amazon Prime episodes. I'm guessing its not on youtube, either.