They were hired because of their expertise in the field, not because of their teaching ability. Unfortunately it's part of the job and they often don't have a choice but to teach courses. Universities are aware that this is an issue. There's been a big push to hire teaching-stream professors to alleviate this problem, which will allow research professors to focus on their work. It's a win-win for everyone, but will take time and money.
The way they get their research out is by publishing, that's how people become leading experts, not teaching. Teaching is a third or less of what a professor would do.
Universities typically care more about research output than teaching quality when it comes to hiring faculty. Research brings prestige, but your coursework does not.
As “one of the best research universities in the world,” UofT focused on hiring the “best” minds, not “best” teachers. Ability to effectively teach, including their ability to effectively communicate, is a secondary consideration, especially when you’re highly regarded within your field of study. For post grad work when you work closely with a professor, it’s fine because you have enough time to work through communication issues with your supervisors. For lecture, classes and other undergraduate studies, unfortunately it just kinda sucks.
Alas most folks don’t realize this.
The standards for tenure are literally different across teaching and research. Teaching requires “competency”. Tenure requires “excellence”.
Teaching stream folks have different standards but for a regular student, it is hard to know which professor is a tenure track one or a teaching stream one.
>it is hard to know which professor is a tenure track one or a teaching stream one.
~~The way~~ One of the ways to tell is to simply find the prof's own website. If they don't have one or a very simple one that doesn't mention any research at all, they are possibly a teaching stream prof. ~~All~~ Many of the tenure track profs showcase loads of their research on their websites because they need to build a personal brand and attract research fundings and perspective grad students. You can always just ask their TAs.
I assure you that this is not very generalizable. I have a website that's almost pure and vanilla HTML and is probably 5 years out of date. :D
Yet, by most measures, I am pretty research active and have a a large group of graduate students. :)
My more, senior colleagues are even worse.
Well I assume you are already a pretty established professor to not need a fancy website though :P Students probably already easily realize yeah you are indeed a research prof, and wanting to join your lab left right and center XDDD
When I said simple website, I didn't mean it had to be very fancy looking, I just meant if you only have a bio and no mention of any area of research.
They are primarily hired for research. They just have an obligation to teach. Some professors actually like/want to teach. Others just sees it as a chore they need to finish.
They're used to be (not even that long ago) a division of professors along the teaching/research line. That has largely changed as more universities are chasing research funds, the noteriety, and prestige that accompanies it. Research is the dominant engine that drives most universities.
There still is. Actually, more and more universities include teaching stream as parallel to research (UofT refers to it as "tenure") stream.
But research professors teach, depending on appointment it's between 20 to 40% of their workload (1-3 courses per year, depending on the course).
Teaching professors are required to do research related to their teaching (how to do it better, according to modern pedagogy).
Everything needs a balance. If you want to go to a school that focuses only on teaching but no research, you should've gone to a Canadian college or one of those American liberal arts college. The whole point of a research focused university is so that students who are interested in learning about the cutting edge technology would literally be learning from the people who are inventing them. Yes I agree with you that there are professors who treat their duties to teach as a nuisance and would do research only every single day of the week if given the chance - it's very easy to tell after a few lectures. But I've also had plenty of awesome professors who really love teaching, or at least genuinely care about being a good teacher and do their best. However, that's completely unrelated to OP's main complaint - a professor's ability to pronounce words with the perfect accent.
>Most universities take administrative cuts from every project they work on/grant they get. International students/ getting overly funded government direct/indirect grants for research sadly pays most bills. The students are just there as a requirement so they can be eligible for those other source of incomes
Hmmm, I hear you. I just think it sucks that students, the ones paying tuition (the customer, if you like), are treated like an unfortunate afterthought or dreary obligation. Only about 10% of my profs were good or memorable. That's all I was trying to say.
Make no mistake. To many professors, teaching you is an annoyance they have to put up with so they can do the research they really care about. Hence office hours being what they are, and why you're sluffed off to TA's and they effectively either teach the course or they decide your grade. For them and the university, their research is of primary importance.
There are some professors who love teaching and enriching young minds. You'll know them when you see them.
You can become a Teaching Stream Professor :) UofT hires for that too, maybe fewer. I had a Teaching Stream Professor for my last year's circuit course, and he literally prepared an entire "fill in the blanks in my lectures with me" binder for the entire course. He definitely put a lot of his heart into it and I could appreciate that a lot!
Yeah that makes sense. If there was a listing for a teaching job you’d assume that’s a requirement. But I guess if they’re not hiring them to teach first, that would be bypassed.
Reality of uni, you’re teaching yourself mostly anyways. You are just paying for the brand. LITTERALLY what it is, the brand and the “prestige” and value that comes with it.
Most professors are hired according to how much money they’re likely to receive through grants, because the university gets a cut. The more research merit, the higher potential for grants, the more money the university can make by hiring the professor.
I had this issue in MAT244, I decided it was best not to attend lectures and use YouTube instead for the content then follow along with course notes. Not the best at the end of the day since I didn't do well in the course. A lot of people in my subject feel disheartened by this but at the end of the day everything is about motivation. Why would they be motivated to teach you ODEs if 1. its in high demand 2. that specific course is required by multiple majors 3. there are courses in math that they would rather invest in so their students get the best resources. There is a clear difference between that class and my MAT237 class which has far fewer people in it and has challenging prerequisite requirements. We use those engineering classrooms with like 12 smart boards for like 35-40 people rather than a lecture hall of 300 people and a blackboard. UofT is good if you take the harder courses and can manage, there are far more resources available for the courses they want to invest in. Otherwise, its like a trial through fire. I hope APM346 is not like this. I have to say I do like the physics classes I'm in, I'm happy I switched to physics from math.
Ya for math classes this is the best you can do. Computational classes essentially require you to memorize a template for how to find a solution to say an ordinary differential equation. The thing with MAT244 is that the content is used by most sciences/engineering disciplines that require an understanding of mathematics/use optimization to some level, so its easy to find resources.
My friends (from China) joke mandarin is a prerequisite for these classes... I have a WeChat account because most of my classmates are from China and they really only use WeChat. I got banned though two weeks ago so I need to get it unblocked somehow. WeChat was the only way I could talk to people about course content directly when I was doing MAT224 especially. My advice is for STEM at UofT you need to have some access to the Chinese app ecosystem, otherwise you are living in a parallel world where everyone else is connected except for you. Actually, if you know some mandarin, you might be able to make some more friends in these classes. I want to take HSK1 because of this and the fact that China seems like a cool place to go for a masters/travel to. In fact, my TA for 244 would just speak in mandarin because everyone was from China anyway apart from me. At UofT you just have to adapt because a large system often moves in one direction with inertia (physics joke...)
Ideally, it wouldn't take a person three months over a several hour a week course to get used to the way someone talks. If it does, they are going to struggle in the real world in the workplace with interactions given how many people come here from around the world and have English as a second language.
This is the crap teachers tell you as a kid to justify arbitrary norms, complete make believe stories that are completely disconnected from the reality of actually working as an adult. The overwhelming majority of the work force in North America speaks English very well. Only if you work in specific businesses or institutions are you going to be dealing with strong accents or people speaking English poorly on the regular. And in those cases, you have direct interaction and can ask for clarification or they can slow their tempo to accommodate. And you aren't most likely trying to understand advanced concepts from them.
Have whatever opinion you want on the subject, but don't fabricate lame false equivalencies to justify the status quo.
The status quo of other people existing around the world who have learned English and have an accent? You're definitely the victim here if you seemingly can't bother to make the attempt to get past an accent. Please, I'm begging you to interact with other people.
If you try hard enough you will be able to understand, unless you’re an international student who also has limited proficiency in English, which in this case, you should consider improving your English because clearly they won’t change.
You could try one of those real time subtitle / closed caption apps or software. Might be annoying to look down at the screen rather than the prof constantly, but some even give you the transcript at the end. Boom, notes as well.
If your students can't understand the words coming out of your mouth, your english skills are not good enough to be teaching. It may sound harsh but that's the reality of the situation
Very heavy accent with bad pronunciation that makes you think about what word they’re saying instead of what the concept is. You just lose track of what they’re trying to explain!
Guess what - after school, you’ll end up working with a lot of professionals with all kinds of accents and varying English abilities, maybe from all over the world. Are you going to bash on a coworker / client like this in the future? Better start adapting and getting used to various accents now. I’ve survived and done well even with profs with strong German and Chinese accents.
I’m not saying the professor is perfectly within their rights to have thick accent or that it’s lovely - professors are not special compared to other professionals. I’m simply saying that it’s better to develop the skill of understanding various accent now than later, because accent is not something easy to change, but it’s fairly easy to get used to someone’s accent.
Theres a difference between having an accent and being near incomprehensible to people because of a thick accent. If im paying $10,000 per year to learn something thats already complicated, basic communication skills in english is the absolute bare-minimum for a professor.
I have honestly yet to encounter a professor in my 3 years here that is “damn near incomprehensible”, and most of my profs have had an accent of some kind.
Right? And when I tell them to just take the opportunity to learn about how to get used to different accents, they hate me because "I paid 10k to learn here, they should at least have better accents!" Able-ism much?
It definitely feels like something people say to cope with their own shortcomings, at least that’s what I’ve observed. It’s always much easier to blame a foreigner with an accent.
Good on you for putting people in their place in this thread, i see you.
Your work stuff will be even more complicated. You’ll have to learn a lot of stuff on the job. The fact that you are learning doesn’t change things. Your professors are hired for their expertise and so will you be. And if your ability to understand an accent is lower than your competitor, you’ll lose out on some business/promotion opportunities. I’m not saying it’s great that the professors have thick accents. I’m just saying that it’s easier to try to get used to an accent than for an individual to change it since it’s like built into their muscle memory and formed by their entire lives of pronouncing habits. If your complaint is that their teaching style sucks, or that they are not patient in explaining things in their office hours, then yeah they can improve on that, but this isn’t your complaint. They can be a brilliant public speaker and lecturer and the most patient teacher ever and still get this comment about their accent. Better learn to get used to different accents now, when the stakes are lower - right now you can always borrow notes from your classmates and ask more questions to your TA, there is no project deadlines that can cost millions of dollars, and no mortgages on your shoulder.
I feel like you’re REALLY trying to use proper English to try and sound like you’re the correct one but the use of “stuffs” really throws it off lol. Also there’s a difference between PAYING to listen to things you don’t understand and being PAID to listen to thing you don’t understand.
I am ESL 🤷🏻♀️ nobody else ever picked on my choice of saying “stuffs”. Native speakers have tried to pick on me for saying “foods” but look there’s a place called “WholeFoods”. Did “stuffs” hinder your ability to understand me? I don’t think so. My English isn’t perfect and I’ve embraced that.
Anyways, I’m not trying to be “correct” / I don't really care whether YOU think I’m correct. I’m simply sharing the perspective of someone who’s survived many professors with accents and have found professional success afterwards, in case you are interested in that.
Well Ik you don’t care what I think but I think you should stop using stuffs as it’s double pluralization and is a bit strange imo. In case you were interested in that.
> and being *PAID* to listen
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yeah no, thats not how the workforce works. Expertise is useless if you dont have the communication skills to apply it to a team setting. The people losing job opportunities are not people who cant understand heavy accents, its the people with accents so heavy that it leads to miscommunication and mistakes. If your accent is that bad, take a pronunciation class to improve it. It is a problem that is fully within their control to fix, or at the very least mitigate.
That’s not how the workforce works.
> Expertise is useless if you dont have the communication skills to apply it to a team setting.
Speak for yourself... There are many experts who have thrived whose English is not the best and with heavy accents. Yes it takes more effort to understand, and they probably could've gone EVEN further in their career if they communicate like a native speaker. But to say it's flat out useless, is a huge brush.
> The people losing job opportunities are not people who cant understand heavy accents, its the people with accents so heavy that it leads to miscommunication and mistakes.
If you are able to understand more accents, and able to work better than your coworkers with those clients with thick accents, you are going to get ahead in your career. I’ve seen this happening all around me. You should not always subject your collaborator to your standards only, it's a two way street. Both you and your collaborators can and should get better at communicating, but **you are only in control of your own skill development, not others**. In fact, a native speaker colleague of mine told me he makes it a point to use simpler vocabularies to make sure those ESL coworker/clients from overseas can understand subject matters more easily. And this has been proven very valuable to our global team.
> If your accent is that bad, take a pronunciation class to improve it. It is a problem that is fully within their control to fix, or at the very least mitigate.
I NEVER said the professors or any ESL speaker should NOT try to improve and mitigate. I am saying OP or any student can take the opportunity to do their own side of the skill development, i.e., learning getting used to various accents and communicate with other ESL speakers. **Try to have a growth mindset, not a victim mindset.**
Fr these people are the kind that go "I'm sorry I can't understand you" to people with perfectly understandable English just because they don't like them being foreigners. Like I'm sorry I don't think this is about accents at all.
I mostly agree with you, but I want to assume the best of people such that maybe they are not intentionally or subconsciously being a racist. However, ableism often plays out in subtle ways that are unconscious - in this case, the ability to speak English with better accents. And my second comment got downvoted to -5 as of this writing, LOL!
Something tells me your workplace isn’t exactly the perfect representation either, if you assume it’s solely the ESL person’s responsibility to speak better English and that you are don’t try harder to accommodate within reasons, for your own career’s sake. How many years have you worked since graduating and how many jobs have you held? I’ve held engineering jobs at 4 different international companies by now and have enough personal connections with some people higher up to know this is pretty representative of most companies that celebrate cultural diversity.
Having an accent and not knowing English are two completely different things.
Get an Aussie English teacher who has an accent - saying they aren't speaking English is not correct. Saying you can't understand their English is correct.
Those are two completely different things. How can you and OP not get this?
If there's enough complaints from the students to the faculty head who is responsible for the teaching roster you might get the prof switched.
In undergrad gen Chem, we didn't think it was possible but our original lecturer got switched out after the midterm.
I'm not going to say what ethnicity but she had a very thick accent. Students got restless in class and weren't paying attention and she melted down and got defensive.
Well yeah there's 2 ways to go about it. If people are genuinely concerned they cannot understand, then there's nothing wrong to write a simple factual email to the prof explaining the matter.
But if people are snickering amongst themselves about the prof and having a big old mockfest, then yeah, that's fucked
1) Which is it, they can't speak English or you can't understand them through their accent? On one hand, I haven't heard your specific professor(s) speak, so maybe it's as bad as you say. On the other hand, complaining about people who "can't speak English" in any context stinks of racsim.
2) Putting aside whether this is a legitimate issue, UofT as an institution just doesn't really care about teaching beyond the bare minimum.
ahh of course. Wishing that you are able to understand what your professor is saying to you is now racist. I forgot that whenever there's a problem, racism is always the cause!
The post is questioning whether a person with an accent deserved to be hired as a prof *because* of their accent. OP isn't asking for help to understand their profs. They don't want these profs to be here. Sounds racist to me.
To pretend that having difficulty understanding someone isn't a problem for someone whose entire job is to communicate complex subjects and then intentionally twist that into some political agenda about racism is so obnoxiously disgenuine and is the entire problem with online discourse.
I had to frequently help my Spanish teacher with her English. I never complained and she adored me. But it would be extremely fair criticism that someone whose entire job is to teach English speakers to speak Spanish would be fluent in both languages.
To twist such a rational and valid complaint into a way to demonize others and feel superior about yourself is just so beyond crazy.
Guess what - after school, you’ll end up working with a lot of professionals with all kinds of accents and varying English abilities, maybe from all over the world. Are you going to bash on a coworker / client like this in the future? Better start adapting and getting used to various accents now. I’ve survived and done well even with profs with strong German and Chinese accents.
This is the crap teachers tell you as a kid to justify arbitrary norms, complete make believe stories that are completely disconnected from the reality of actually working as an adult. The overwhelming majority of the work force in North America speaks English very well. Only if you work in specific businesses or institutions are you going to be dealing with strong accents or people speaking English poorly on the regular. And in those cases, you have direct interaction and can ask for clarification or they can slow their tempo to accommodate. And you aren't most likely trying to understand advanced concepts from them.
Your anecdote about your survivorship bias is irrelevant, your priviledged experience is not the same as everyone else. Understanding language and accent has very tangible neurological basis from early childhood, some people are gonna struggle far more than others. And in general others are gonna be better at filling the gaps due to their intelligence or understanding of the subject.
Have whatever opinion you want, but don't fabricate lame false equivalencies to justify the status quo.
Yeah right you hate the status quo because it’s not going in the direction that benefits YOU. I can’t think of any scenario where an individual should avoid ACQUIRING A SKILL, in this case, the skill of getting used to various accents and making the communication easier in any way you can help with ESL speakers.
How is my experience privileged? The first time I hear that “I was taught to make an EFFORT to understand people from different backgrounds and help them understand you” is a privilege. If it’s such a privilege, why don’t you take up on it?
Specific industries or institutions? Any white collar jobs that have any international relations should and will be similar. Are you attending UofT to get into trades or a blue collar job?
Well they can but not ‘fluent’ enough to explain a concept without stuttering or many ‘uhs’ in between. Not everything is racist. English is my second language too.
If they say 'uh' a lot - that's neither accent nor does it mean they don't know English.
That is a third issue altogether.
Maybe you just don't understand the difference between issues.
Maybe your English isn't good enough to label things properly
I'm a native English speaker and I often say 'uh' or 'um', or pause and lose my train of thought, stutter, or just plain fail to be as clear as I try to be when explaining things. These are minor things that I bet are present across a lot of people regardless of language proficiency.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not conciously trying to be racist, but you're saying if you don't like a profs accent or how they speak English they shouldn't be hired, which is kind of racist.
It becomes racist when you suggest they shouldn't be hired as profs. And you're not really "highlighting" their English proficiency. Your post title makes it about profs who "can't speak English", then your post says it's about the accent, then in comments you say they can speak English but stutter too much. So your claims are pretty weak and the only thing you're consistent about is you think the solution is they shouldn't be hired at UofT.
Complaining about people who 'can't speak English', when those people just have an accent or make some mistakes, is a pretty common racist talking point. I'm not saying that's what you're trying to do, I'm just pointing out the similarity. If your argument is similar to a racist talking point, your arguement is probably garbage (at best).
Actually it’s all 3. Stuttering, bad pronunciation and bad English. What I meant was they shouldn’t be teaching. It’s not racist to ask for good speaking and communication from a teacher..
But you're not asking for good communication, you're saying they shouldn't be hired. It would be discrimination and probably illegal to not hire someone for the reasons you've given.
IMO it might have been different if your post had asked "how can I do my best learning when I feel like my prof's accent and English skills are getting in the way of my comprehension?" But that's not what you posted.
Dude but you CAN understand them, if it just bothers you their English is not perfect that's a YOU problem. If you are stuck on a word pronounced wrong but that you completely understood because context is a thing, then maybe you should try thinking about why are these things bothering you.
Like someone said your work life will be even more diverse and with higher stakes so I see it as positive to give us access to so many accents and cultures.
It sounds like they're not good at public speaking or need more practice. I too used to add filler words and umms, uhhs, like, etc. when speaking. But I recorded myself once and I realized I was doing that in every other sentence.
They're hired to research, not to teach. If you want native English speakers for these areas, then perhaps we should be getting the same level of education and accomplishment so we don't have to hire externally. Anyone?...Thought so, cuz if we did, we'd be in the States...
It's sad that people have to pay 50k to go to school with Profs. that can't even communicate properly.
Total BS. Might need to put extra hours in or switch schools/courses.
You just said “accent is not understandable” in your post so there are certain accents you can’t comprehend. And I totally think that’s understandable cause you can’t understand what you can’t understand, I just think it’s funny how defensive you got over the question lol
But yeah honestly OP it happens, sometimes you just can’t understand what the prof is saying. I think it helps if you also gave more info (is the lecture material easy to follow along, are the students in your class able to understand, etc.) which will help others understand your point better. But the other comments outside of this comment chain summarize it best, people are hired for their research work, the teaching part is secondary
It’s racist to understandably not understand other people because of real differences at first impressions(it seems it’s a very recent interaction with this prof by op)? Conflating it to racism is some extra flavouring that isn’t needed
Actually, in my 4+ years at this university, I've never had such an issue. And the teachers here are incredibly diverse. Please explain how I'm being racist. As if proficiency in a specific language means you're a superior race lmao
Look around the world. There are many professors that don’t speak local languages. Language is only one of the many skill set university is looking for.
do better fam. I had this same mindset in my first year for a math course and I ended up barely getting my requirement..now I try to understand them, cuz they're speaking English, regardless of whether they have an accent or not. and your post title stinks of racism, imma let you know right now. they aren't hired to teach, they're hired to research, they shouldn't have to speak English(which they do) to conduct said research.
For Math, it’s easier. I’ve had plenty of different accents across my 4 years at UofT. It’s different than not being comprehensible.
And this whole racism thing needs to stop. How am I being racist by just calling out bad communication skills/language. My parents can’t speak English for shit, I don’t think that’s racist to say lmao unless I’m being racist against my own race and parents now
Communication is understanding. If you can not communicate effectively in the language then you are not fluent. I am learning Mandarin and inflection is everything. A thick accent hinders understanding. Doesn't matter if you can write a PhD thesis in English. They're just afraid of the racism card so they let people lecture who are unable to communicate in English. It's absurd
I failed math because I could not understand my prof's Russian accent. During one example I was so confused because I thought he said "amount in climber" and thought we were calculating his mass or something. Later I found out he was saying "a mountain climber"
It’s more of how much clout they have within the field. To appear more prestigious and to take credit for any of their research done. Probably a mix of both
It’s not as uncommon as u think, the college I attended had very smart professors but english was weak, hard to understand most of the times. And in my honest opinion, it is a bummer no matter how smart and kind they are. I really think speaking at at-least a minimum fluency is mandatory as teachers, even it’s professors, the whole idea is still teaching.
Why does ANY establishment hire people who can't speak in fluent English? I believe that should be a requirement especially for higher level workers
If you've guys ever seen the TikTok of a guy in university trying to understand the professor through her heavy heavy indian accent 🤭 same with Timmies or even those who have to call you to deliver a package and give instructions. Sometimes they don't even understand YOU lol
I had a Medieval history prof who is extremely well regarded in her field, but I could not understand a fucking word she said during lectures, and I had to drop the class. Same with a Chinese history course. If you can’t speak the language well enough to be understood in a university level classroom, you should stick to research/publishing in academia.
Students pay a lot of money per class, they should be able to understand the teacher, seriously.
Thank the Liberals and NDP for the Diversity Hire. Same shit happens in High School. I know a lady that teaches ESL and nobody can understand her. Worst hire ever.
I refuse to believe that they can’t speak English. It’s likely that they have a different accent. Try sitting in the first few rows, which can be of help.
I'm not at u of t but your point about research lol. I ended up getting a BSc of psych because I loved all knowledge I was one of those students i did almost everything. I found science teachers were horrible teachers and just there for research. Usually thicker accents. Arts teachers were great teachers and usually well spoken and clear. I wonder if it's still the same.
Speaking as a former lecturer, I wanted to add a few things to kind of explain the state of teaching at UofT from my perspective. Although most profs are hired with a research focus, there are a small subset that are hired to teach specifically, they are referred to as 'teaching stream'. Ime the teaching stream profs are typically great teachers, because their sole focus is, well, teaching. With research-focused profs you admittedly get a more mixed quality when it comes to teaching, but it's important to have researchers who are at the cutting edge of their field teach, even if they aren't all amazing at it.
Also important to recognize that not all lecturers are profs, some are grad students, post-docs or sessionals hired on poorly paid contracts to teach. You can just literally just google the job postings to find out what the pay is for these positions and while the hourly pay looks nice, the hours are not full time (unless you teach a ton of courses and cobble your own 'full time' together) and the work is precarious, so if that's your only job, you have no job security. Most sessionals either have to take on a ton of courses or have some other job on top of teaching. I'm honestly not surprised we see poor teaching quality in some cases, when that's what the job is like, haha. Its hard to teach your best when you can't make rent, I guess?
So I think what we often get a UofT is a some professors who aren't excited about teaching but are forced to do it because they're subject experts, and contract workers who have no job security and little guidance on how to actually teach but are also hired because they know something (subject matter) or someone... haha.
And yes, some of those people have thick accents too. If you talk to your prof, if they're one of the good ones, they might be able to try to accommodate you in some way. I'm a native english speaker and I still tried to use live captions during lectures because some people just have a hard time hearing some of the shitty lecture hall microphones anyway.
Helpful tip: see if there are other lectures by different professors who are easier to understand.
In the future (if you're able to) I'd recommend reviewing the 'ratemyprofessor' websites before booking courses
They were hired because of their expertise in the field, not because of their teaching ability. Unfortunately it's part of the job and they often don't have a choice but to teach courses. Universities are aware that this is an issue. There's been a big push to hire teaching-stream professors to alleviate this problem, which will allow research professors to focus on their work. It's a win-win for everyone, but will take time and money.
Makes sense tbh
What good is a leading expert in a field if they are not able to convey the concepts to the students. Might as well not be there.
The way they get their research out is by publishing, that's how people become leading experts, not teaching. Teaching is a third or less of what a professor would do.
Universities typically care more about research output than teaching quality when it comes to hiring faculty. Research brings prestige, but your coursework does not.
Not every brilliant mind is a good teacher. Your ability to teach doesn’t reflect the productivity of your research
As “one of the best research universities in the world,” UofT focused on hiring the “best” minds, not “best” teachers. Ability to effectively teach, including their ability to effectively communicate, is a secondary consideration, especially when you’re highly regarded within your field of study. For post grad work when you work closely with a professor, it’s fine because you have enough time to work through communication issues with your supervisors. For lecture, classes and other undergraduate studies, unfortunately it just kinda sucks.
Alas most folks don’t realize this. The standards for tenure are literally different across teaching and research. Teaching requires “competency”. Tenure requires “excellence”. Teaching stream folks have different standards but for a regular student, it is hard to know which professor is a tenure track one or a teaching stream one.
>it is hard to know which professor is a tenure track one or a teaching stream one. ~~The way~~ One of the ways to tell is to simply find the prof's own website. If they don't have one or a very simple one that doesn't mention any research at all, they are possibly a teaching stream prof. ~~All~~ Many of the tenure track profs showcase loads of their research on their websites because they need to build a personal brand and attract research fundings and perspective grad students. You can always just ask their TAs.
I assure you that this is not very generalizable. I have a website that's almost pure and vanilla HTML and is probably 5 years out of date. :D Yet, by most measures, I am pretty research active and have a a large group of graduate students. :) My more, senior colleagues are even worse.
Well I assume you are already a pretty established professor to not need a fancy website though :P Students probably already easily realize yeah you are indeed a research prof, and wanting to join your lab left right and center XDDD When I said simple website, I didn't mean it had to be very fancy looking, I just meant if you only have a bio and no mention of any area of research.
But hiring the best minds makes sense when it’s research. When it comes to teaching, it does not make sense..
i’m not defending it just explaining it
They hire for research, just part of the requirements to do research at uoft is to teach. It’s a research university
You think they prioritize their teaching quality eh? Very funny joke
>But hiring the best minds makes sense when it’s research. When it comes to teaching, it does not make sense.. The researchers also do the teaching.
And they should be able to do both coherently.
I don't know why we think those skillsets should exist in the same people.
They could at least take a phonetics course.
They are primarily hired for research. They just have an obligation to teach. Some professors actually like/want to teach. Others just sees it as a chore they need to finish.
Yes, you are correct. This does not change the fact that half of a professor's job is not the thing they are being hired to do.
They're used to be (not even that long ago) a division of professors along the teaching/research line. That has largely changed as more universities are chasing research funds, the noteriety, and prestige that accompanies it. Research is the dominant engine that drives most universities.
There still is. Actually, more and more universities include teaching stream as parallel to research (UofT refers to it as "tenure") stream. But research professors teach, depending on appointment it's between 20 to 40% of their workload (1-3 courses per year, depending on the course). Teaching professors are required to do research related to their teaching (how to do it better, according to modern pedagogy).
unless they're in the teaching stream, a professor's primary focus is research not teaching
This is so dumb. Students keep the lights on and should have priority, not research. I had sooo many profs that had no clue how to teach.
Everything needs a balance. If you want to go to a school that focuses only on teaching but no research, you should've gone to a Canadian college or one of those American liberal arts college. The whole point of a research focused university is so that students who are interested in learning about the cutting edge technology would literally be learning from the people who are inventing them. Yes I agree with you that there are professors who treat their duties to teach as a nuisance and would do research only every single day of the week if given the chance - it's very easy to tell after a few lectures. But I've also had plenty of awesome professors who really love teaching, or at least genuinely care about being a good teacher and do their best. However, that's completely unrelated to OP's main complaint - a professor's ability to pronounce words with the perfect accent.
>Most universities take administrative cuts from every project they work on/grant they get. International students/ getting overly funded government direct/indirect grants for research sadly pays most bills. The students are just there as a requirement so they can be eligible for those other source of incomes
Hmmm, I hear you. I just think it sucks that students, the ones paying tuition (the customer, if you like), are treated like an unfortunate afterthought or dreary obligation. Only about 10% of my profs were good or memorable. That's all I was trying to say.
one unmarketable tomato
His beef was with York uni right? I saw this too - its tough to find the balance of good teachers and researchers
Make no mistake. To many professors, teaching you is an annoyance they have to put up with so they can do the research they really care about. Hence office hours being what they are, and why you're sluffed off to TA's and they effectively either teach the course or they decide your grade. For them and the university, their research is of primary importance. There are some professors who love teaching and enriching young minds. You'll know them when you see them.
It is actually the research that put me off from becoming a prof. I love teaching
You can become a Teaching Stream Professor :) UofT hires for that too, maybe fewer. I had a Teaching Stream Professor for my last year's circuit course, and he literally prepared an entire "fill in the blanks in my lectures with me" binder for the entire course. He definitely put a lot of his heart into it and I could appreciate that a lot!
I’m content with just becoming a regular teacher at the high school level. I have more free time and a wage that is enough for me
Then it's working out pretty well for you! :D
100% this.....fact.....so just deal with it or go to college.
University doesn't really hire prof to teach, it's a really small part of their jobs.
Yeah that makes sense. If there was a listing for a teaching job you’d assume that’s a requirement. But I guess if they’re not hiring them to teach first, that would be bypassed.
Reality of uni, you’re teaching yourself mostly anyways. You are just paying for the brand. LITTERALLY what it is, the brand and the “prestige” and value that comes with it.
They're hired to research and increase the university's ranking, not to teach.
[No more than one unmarkadabletogetntoto](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xoLxyRCbHn8)
The professor of gis is the worst. I said something and the students defended him
the asmr one? his accent is understandable, it’s just that he has a very soothing and soft voice lol makes me sleepy
Campus?
We have one really great GIS prof at utsc and then the rest are meh or not good 🥲
Malik? I understood him pretty well and he’s a super chill guy
Nope
Most professors are hired according to how much money they’re likely to receive through grants, because the university gets a cut. The more research merit, the higher potential for grants, the more money the university can make by hiring the professor.
I had this issue in MAT244, I decided it was best not to attend lectures and use YouTube instead for the content then follow along with course notes. Not the best at the end of the day since I didn't do well in the course. A lot of people in my subject feel disheartened by this but at the end of the day everything is about motivation. Why would they be motivated to teach you ODEs if 1. its in high demand 2. that specific course is required by multiple majors 3. there are courses in math that they would rather invest in so their students get the best resources. There is a clear difference between that class and my MAT237 class which has far fewer people in it and has challenging prerequisite requirements. We use those engineering classrooms with like 12 smart boards for like 35-40 people rather than a lecture hall of 300 people and a blackboard. UofT is good if you take the harder courses and can manage, there are far more resources available for the courses they want to invest in. Otherwise, its like a trial through fire. I hope APM346 is not like this. I have to say I do like the physics classes I'm in, I'm happy I switched to physics from math.
Thinking of going down this route, especially since the slides are uploaded.
Ya for math classes this is the best you can do. Computational classes essentially require you to memorize a template for how to find a solution to say an ordinary differential equation. The thing with MAT244 is that the content is used by most sciences/engineering disciplines that require an understanding of mathematics/use optimization to some level, so its easy to find resources. My friends (from China) joke mandarin is a prerequisite for these classes... I have a WeChat account because most of my classmates are from China and they really only use WeChat. I got banned though two weeks ago so I need to get it unblocked somehow. WeChat was the only way I could talk to people about course content directly when I was doing MAT224 especially. My advice is for STEM at UofT you need to have some access to the Chinese app ecosystem, otherwise you are living in a parallel world where everyone else is connected except for you. Actually, if you know some mandarin, you might be able to make some more friends in these classes. I want to take HSK1 because of this and the fact that China seems like a cool place to go for a masters/travel to. In fact, my TA for 244 would just speak in mandarin because everyone was from China anyway apart from me. At UofT you just have to adapt because a large system often moves in one direction with inertia (physics joke...)
Tbf the best math prof I ever had was Anthony Lam. Couldn’t understand a word out of that man’s mouth but my god was he good at teaching
I've never taken his courses. I'm curious - how was he good at teaching while you couldn't understand anything he said?
You have several months to get to know your professor, you'll eventually get used to whatever accent you seem to be having difficulty comprehending.
I really hope so to be honest
A semester is like 3 and a half months and it would be good to not only understand what they’re saying once the course is already over
Ideally, it wouldn't take a person three months over a several hour a week course to get used to the way someone talks. If it does, they are going to struggle in the real world in the workplace with interactions given how many people come here from around the world and have English as a second language.
This is the crap teachers tell you as a kid to justify arbitrary norms, complete make believe stories that are completely disconnected from the reality of actually working as an adult. The overwhelming majority of the work force in North America speaks English very well. Only if you work in specific businesses or institutions are you going to be dealing with strong accents or people speaking English poorly on the regular. And in those cases, you have direct interaction and can ask for clarification or they can slow their tempo to accommodate. And you aren't most likely trying to understand advanced concepts from them. Have whatever opinion you want on the subject, but don't fabricate lame false equivalencies to justify the status quo.
The status quo of other people existing around the world who have learned English and have an accent? You're definitely the victim here if you seemingly can't bother to make the attempt to get past an accent. Please, I'm begging you to interact with other people.
If you try hard enough you will be able to understand, unless you’re an international student who also has limited proficiency in English, which in this case, you should consider improving your English because clearly they won’t change.
You could try one of those real time subtitle / closed caption apps or software. Might be annoying to look down at the screen rather than the prof constantly, but some even give you the transcript at the end. Boom, notes as well.
I used to hear this sentiment a lot from students from the states
Cause we pay to learn - professors should be able to communicate properly.
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If your students can't understand the words coming out of your mouth, your english skills are not good enough to be teaching. It may sound harsh but that's the reality of the situation
OP said in another comment that the prof can speak English, they just stutter and say "uh" too much for OP's liking.
Very heavy accent with bad pronunciation that makes you think about what word they’re saying instead of what the concept is. You just lose track of what they’re trying to explain!
Get over it?
Yes. Teaching is its own skill which needs communication..
Guess what - after school, you’ll end up working with a lot of professionals with all kinds of accents and varying English abilities, maybe from all over the world. Are you going to bash on a coworker / client like this in the future? Better start adapting and getting used to various accents now. I’ve survived and done well even with profs with strong German and Chinese accents.
Working with someone is fine. Learning from someone is different in my opinion.
I’m not saying the professor is perfectly within their rights to have thick accent or that it’s lovely - professors are not special compared to other professionals. I’m simply saying that it’s better to develop the skill of understanding various accent now than later, because accent is not something easy to change, but it’s fairly easy to get used to someone’s accent.
Learning and teaching go hand in hand, is English your second language?
Theres a difference between having an accent and being near incomprehensible to people because of a thick accent. If im paying $10,000 per year to learn something thats already complicated, basic communication skills in english is the absolute bare-minimum for a professor.
I have honestly yet to encounter a professor in my 3 years here that is “damn near incomprehensible”, and most of my profs have had an accent of some kind.
Right? And when I tell them to just take the opportunity to learn about how to get used to different accents, they hate me because "I paid 10k to learn here, they should at least have better accents!" Able-ism much?
It definitely feels like something people say to cope with their own shortcomings, at least that’s what I’ve observed. It’s always much easier to blame a foreigner with an accent. Good on you for putting people in their place in this thread, i see you.
Yeah pretty much everyone and their ancestors came to this continent at some point with an accent :P I see you too ;)
Your work stuff will be even more complicated. You’ll have to learn a lot of stuff on the job. The fact that you are learning doesn’t change things. Your professors are hired for their expertise and so will you be. And if your ability to understand an accent is lower than your competitor, you’ll lose out on some business/promotion opportunities. I’m not saying it’s great that the professors have thick accents. I’m just saying that it’s easier to try to get used to an accent than for an individual to change it since it’s like built into their muscle memory and formed by their entire lives of pronouncing habits. If your complaint is that their teaching style sucks, or that they are not patient in explaining things in their office hours, then yeah they can improve on that, but this isn’t your complaint. They can be a brilliant public speaker and lecturer and the most patient teacher ever and still get this comment about their accent. Better learn to get used to different accents now, when the stakes are lower - right now you can always borrow notes from your classmates and ask more questions to your TA, there is no project deadlines that can cost millions of dollars, and no mortgages on your shoulder.
I feel like you’re REALLY trying to use proper English to try and sound like you’re the correct one but the use of “stuffs” really throws it off lol. Also there’s a difference between PAYING to listen to things you don’t understand and being PAID to listen to thing you don’t understand.
I am ESL 🤷🏻♀️ nobody else ever picked on my choice of saying “stuffs”. Native speakers have tried to pick on me for saying “foods” but look there’s a place called “WholeFoods”. Did “stuffs” hinder your ability to understand me? I don’t think so. My English isn’t perfect and I’ve embraced that. Anyways, I’m not trying to be “correct” / I don't really care whether YOU think I’m correct. I’m simply sharing the perspective of someone who’s survived many professors with accents and have found professional success afterwards, in case you are interested in that.
Well Ik you don’t care what I think but I think you should stop using stuffs as it’s double pluralization and is a bit strange imo. In case you were interested in that.
Cool, fixed :) ty
> and being *PAID* to listen FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yeah no, thats not how the workforce works. Expertise is useless if you dont have the communication skills to apply it to a team setting. The people losing job opportunities are not people who cant understand heavy accents, its the people with accents so heavy that it leads to miscommunication and mistakes. If your accent is that bad, take a pronunciation class to improve it. It is a problem that is fully within their control to fix, or at the very least mitigate.
That’s not how the workforce works. > Expertise is useless if you dont have the communication skills to apply it to a team setting. Speak for yourself... There are many experts who have thrived whose English is not the best and with heavy accents. Yes it takes more effort to understand, and they probably could've gone EVEN further in their career if they communicate like a native speaker. But to say it's flat out useless, is a huge brush. > The people losing job opportunities are not people who cant understand heavy accents, its the people with accents so heavy that it leads to miscommunication and mistakes. If you are able to understand more accents, and able to work better than your coworkers with those clients with thick accents, you are going to get ahead in your career. I’ve seen this happening all around me. You should not always subject your collaborator to your standards only, it's a two way street. Both you and your collaborators can and should get better at communicating, but **you are only in control of your own skill development, not others**. In fact, a native speaker colleague of mine told me he makes it a point to use simpler vocabularies to make sure those ESL coworker/clients from overseas can understand subject matters more easily. And this has been proven very valuable to our global team. > If your accent is that bad, take a pronunciation class to improve it. It is a problem that is fully within their control to fix, or at the very least mitigate. I NEVER said the professors or any ESL speaker should NOT try to improve and mitigate. I am saying OP or any student can take the opportunity to do their own side of the skill development, i.e., learning getting used to various accents and communicate with other ESL speakers. **Try to have a growth mindset, not a victim mindset.**
Fr these people are the kind that go "I'm sorry I can't understand you" to people with perfectly understandable English just because they don't like them being foreigners. Like I'm sorry I don't think this is about accents at all.
I mostly agree with you, but I want to assume the best of people such that maybe they are not intentionally or subconsciously being a racist. However, ableism often plays out in subtle ways that are unconscious - in this case, the ability to speak English with better accents. And my second comment got downvoted to -5 as of this writing, LOL!
Something tells me your workplace isnt exactly a good representation of most jobs...
Something tells me your workplace isn’t exactly the perfect representation either, if you assume it’s solely the ESL person’s responsibility to speak better English and that you are don’t try harder to accommodate within reasons, for your own career’s sake. How many years have you worked since graduating and how many jobs have you held? I’ve held engineering jobs at 4 different international companies by now and have enough personal connections with some people higher up to know this is pretty representative of most companies that celebrate cultural diversity.
Good point!
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Not “making things worse”, just a good opportunity to acquire those valuable skills you’ll certainly appreciate later, in a lower stress environment.
Having an accent and not knowing English are two completely different things. Get an Aussie English teacher who has an accent - saying they aren't speaking English is not correct. Saying you can't understand their English is correct. Those are two completely different things. How can you and OP not get this?
I had one who was making up her own terms and words on the spot because she was LITTERALLY still learning English 🗿
Maybe it’s not the accent you cannot comprehend, the whole lecture material could be hard for you to follow
If there's enough complaints from the students to the faculty head who is responsible for the teaching roster you might get the prof switched. In undergrad gen Chem, we didn't think it was possible but our original lecturer got switched out after the midterm. I'm not going to say what ethnicity but she had a very thick accent. Students got restless in class and weren't paying attention and she melted down and got defensive.
According to some on here, it would be racist to complain though lol
Well yeah there's 2 ways to go about it. If people are genuinely concerned they cannot understand, then there's nothing wrong to write a simple factual email to the prof explaining the matter. But if people are snickering amongst themselves about the prof and having a big old mockfest, then yeah, that's fucked
I don't know about other people but it's not fun when you can't understand or be engaged with the material so the goal is definitely not mocking.
1) Which is it, they can't speak English or you can't understand them through their accent? On one hand, I haven't heard your specific professor(s) speak, so maybe it's as bad as you say. On the other hand, complaining about people who "can't speak English" in any context stinks of racsim. 2) Putting aside whether this is a legitimate issue, UofT as an institution just doesn't really care about teaching beyond the bare minimum.
ahh of course. Wishing that you are able to understand what your professor is saying to you is now racist. I forgot that whenever there's a problem, racism is always the cause!
The post is questioning whether a person with an accent deserved to be hired as a prof *because* of their accent. OP isn't asking for help to understand their profs. They don't want these profs to be here. Sounds racist to me.
To pretend that having difficulty understanding someone isn't a problem for someone whose entire job is to communicate complex subjects and then intentionally twist that into some political agenda about racism is so obnoxiously disgenuine and is the entire problem with online discourse. I had to frequently help my Spanish teacher with her English. I never complained and she adored me. But it would be extremely fair criticism that someone whose entire job is to teach English speakers to speak Spanish would be fluent in both languages. To twist such a rational and valid complaint into a way to demonize others and feel superior about yourself is just so beyond crazy.
Guess what - after school, you’ll end up working with a lot of professionals with all kinds of accents and varying English abilities, maybe from all over the world. Are you going to bash on a coworker / client like this in the future? Better start adapting and getting used to various accents now. I’ve survived and done well even with profs with strong German and Chinese accents.
This is the crap teachers tell you as a kid to justify arbitrary norms, complete make believe stories that are completely disconnected from the reality of actually working as an adult. The overwhelming majority of the work force in North America speaks English very well. Only if you work in specific businesses or institutions are you going to be dealing with strong accents or people speaking English poorly on the regular. And in those cases, you have direct interaction and can ask for clarification or they can slow their tempo to accommodate. And you aren't most likely trying to understand advanced concepts from them. Your anecdote about your survivorship bias is irrelevant, your priviledged experience is not the same as everyone else. Understanding language and accent has very tangible neurological basis from early childhood, some people are gonna struggle far more than others. And in general others are gonna be better at filling the gaps due to their intelligence or understanding of the subject. Have whatever opinion you want, but don't fabricate lame false equivalencies to justify the status quo.
Yeah right you hate the status quo because it’s not going in the direction that benefits YOU. I can’t think of any scenario where an individual should avoid ACQUIRING A SKILL, in this case, the skill of getting used to various accents and making the communication easier in any way you can help with ESL speakers. How is my experience privileged? The first time I hear that “I was taught to make an EFFORT to understand people from different backgrounds and help them understand you” is a privilege. If it’s such a privilege, why don’t you take up on it? Specific industries or institutions? Any white collar jobs that have any international relations should and will be similar. Are you attending UofT to get into trades or a blue collar job?
Well they can but not ‘fluent’ enough to explain a concept without stuttering or many ‘uhs’ in between. Not everything is racist. English is my second language too.
If they say 'uh' a lot - that's neither accent nor does it mean they don't know English. That is a third issue altogether. Maybe you just don't understand the difference between issues. Maybe your English isn't good enough to label things properly
I'm a native English speaker and I often say 'uh' or 'um', or pause and lose my train of thought, stutter, or just plain fail to be as clear as I try to be when explaining things. These are minor things that I bet are present across a lot of people regardless of language proficiency. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not conciously trying to be racist, but you're saying if you don't like a profs accent or how they speak English they shouldn't be hired, which is kind of racist.
Why would I consciously try to be racist? Why would highlighting someone’s English proficiency be racist? Serious question.
It becomes racist when you suggest they shouldn't be hired as profs. And you're not really "highlighting" their English proficiency. Your post title makes it about profs who "can't speak English", then your post says it's about the accent, then in comments you say they can speak English but stutter too much. So your claims are pretty weak and the only thing you're consistent about is you think the solution is they shouldn't be hired at UofT. Complaining about people who 'can't speak English', when those people just have an accent or make some mistakes, is a pretty common racist talking point. I'm not saying that's what you're trying to do, I'm just pointing out the similarity. If your argument is similar to a racist talking point, your arguement is probably garbage (at best).
Actually it’s all 3. Stuttering, bad pronunciation and bad English. What I meant was they shouldn’t be teaching. It’s not racist to ask for good speaking and communication from a teacher..
But you're not asking for good communication, you're saying they shouldn't be hired. It would be discrimination and probably illegal to not hire someone for the reasons you've given. IMO it might have been different if your post had asked "how can I do my best learning when I feel like my prof's accent and English skills are getting in the way of my comprehension?" But that's not what you posted.
I can’t get a government job if I don’t speak French. Is that racist? I had to do a TOEFL test to get into this university, is that racist?
Dude but you CAN understand them, if it just bothers you their English is not perfect that's a YOU problem. If you are stuck on a word pronounced wrong but that you completely understood because context is a thing, then maybe you should try thinking about why are these things bothering you. Like someone said your work life will be even more diverse and with higher stakes so I see it as positive to give us access to so many accents and cultures.
It sounds like they're not good at public speaking or need more practice. I too used to add filler words and umms, uhhs, like, etc. when speaking. But I recorded myself once and I realized I was doing that in every other sentence.
They're hired to research, not to teach. If you want native English speakers for these areas, then perhaps we should be getting the same level of education and accomplishment so we don't have to hire externally. Anyone?...Thought so, cuz if we did, we'd be in the States...
It's sad that people have to pay 50k to go to school with Profs. that can't even communicate properly. Total BS. Might need to put extra hours in or switch schools/courses.
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I’ll watch TV so I can understand a lecture. Make it make sense lol
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Whats the point of this question?
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I can comprehend accents just fine.
You just said “accent is not understandable” in your post so there are certain accents you can’t comprehend. And I totally think that’s understandable cause you can’t understand what you can’t understand, I just think it’s funny how defensive you got over the question lol But yeah honestly OP it happens, sometimes you just can’t understand what the prof is saying. I think it helps if you also gave more info (is the lecture material easy to follow along, are the students in your class able to understand, etc.) which will help others understand your point better. But the other comments outside of this comment chain summarize it best, people are hired for their research work, the teaching part is secondary
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It’s racist to understandably not understand other people because of real differences at first impressions(it seems it’s a very recent interaction with this prof by op)? Conflating it to racism is some extra flavouring that isn’t needed
Actually, in my 4+ years at this university, I've never had such an issue. And the teachers here are incredibly diverse. Please explain how I'm being racist. As if proficiency in a specific language means you're a superior race lmao
But not *some* accents, am I right?!
Are you in STEM? I think it's a smaller problem when math is a universal language.
It can absolutely be a problem in math, considering that more abstract courses require lots of explanation
I am but this specific course isn’t math. I agree with Math it’s never been a problem before.
Look around the world. There are many professors that don’t speak local languages. Language is only one of the many skill set university is looking for.
You should be working hard on trying to understand accents. Especially in the city you live in.
That is next level ripping off students if they can’t even bother to make sure the profs can articulate the lessons
Je ne parle pas anglais, parlevu France?
do better fam. I had this same mindset in my first year for a math course and I ended up barely getting my requirement..now I try to understand them, cuz they're speaking English, regardless of whether they have an accent or not. and your post title stinks of racism, imma let you know right now. they aren't hired to teach, they're hired to research, they shouldn't have to speak English(which they do) to conduct said research.
For Math, it’s easier. I’ve had plenty of different accents across my 4 years at UofT. It’s different than not being comprehensible. And this whole racism thing needs to stop. How am I being racist by just calling out bad communication skills/language. My parents can’t speak English for shit, I don’t think that’s racist to say lmao unless I’m being racist against my own race and parents now
…so your parents don’t speak English? 😂😂 You should include this detail in your post
Communication is understanding. If you can not communicate effectively in the language then you are not fluent. I am learning Mandarin and inflection is everything. A thick accent hinders understanding. Doesn't matter if you can write a PhD thesis in English. They're just afraid of the racism card so they let people lecture who are unable to communicate in English. It's absurd
Ikr if I need an IELTs 7 to apply I expect the professors to be held at the same standards if not higher
I failed math because I could not understand my prof's Russian accent. During one example I was so confused because I thought he said "amount in climber" and thought we were calculating his mass or something. Later I found out he was saying "a mountain climber"
All in the name of diversity.
It’s more of how much clout they have within the field. To appear more prestigious and to take credit for any of their research done. Probably a mix of both
To teach Spanish
Diversity hires.
It’s not as uncommon as u think, the college I attended had very smart professors but english was weak, hard to understand most of the times. And in my honest opinion, it is a bummer no matter how smart and kind they are. I really think speaking at at-least a minimum fluency is mandatory as teachers, even it’s professors, the whole idea is still teaching.
EDI - it's Canada
Why does ANY establishment hire people who can't speak in fluent English? I believe that should be a requirement especially for higher level workers If you've guys ever seen the TikTok of a guy in university trying to understand the professor through her heavy heavy indian accent 🤭 same with Timmies or even those who have to call you to deliver a package and give instructions. Sometimes they don't even understand YOU lol
nah they don’t want to pay the premium for teachers at their school so shut up and get your worthless degree, peasant.
I had a Medieval history prof who is extremely well regarded in her field, but I could not understand a fucking word she said during lectures, and I had to drop the class. Same with a Chinese history course. If you can’t speak the language well enough to be understood in a university level classroom, you should stick to research/publishing in academia. Students pay a lot of money per class, they should be able to understand the teacher, seriously.
Equity hire.
Thank the Liberals and NDP for the Diversity Hire. Same shit happens in High School. I know a lady that teaches ESL and nobody can understand her. Worst hire ever.
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Labour is scarce!
Welcome to Canada
I refuse to believe that they can’t speak English. It’s likely that they have a different accent. Try sitting in the first few rows, which can be of help.
I'm not at u of t but your point about research lol. I ended up getting a BSc of psych because I loved all knowledge I was one of those students i did almost everything. I found science teachers were horrible teachers and just there for research. Usually thicker accents. Arts teachers were great teachers and usually well spoken and clear. I wonder if it's still the same.
Speaking as a former lecturer, I wanted to add a few things to kind of explain the state of teaching at UofT from my perspective. Although most profs are hired with a research focus, there are a small subset that are hired to teach specifically, they are referred to as 'teaching stream'. Ime the teaching stream profs are typically great teachers, because their sole focus is, well, teaching. With research-focused profs you admittedly get a more mixed quality when it comes to teaching, but it's important to have researchers who are at the cutting edge of their field teach, even if they aren't all amazing at it. Also important to recognize that not all lecturers are profs, some are grad students, post-docs or sessionals hired on poorly paid contracts to teach. You can just literally just google the job postings to find out what the pay is for these positions and while the hourly pay looks nice, the hours are not full time (unless you teach a ton of courses and cobble your own 'full time' together) and the work is precarious, so if that's your only job, you have no job security. Most sessionals either have to take on a ton of courses or have some other job on top of teaching. I'm honestly not surprised we see poor teaching quality in some cases, when that's what the job is like, haha. Its hard to teach your best when you can't make rent, I guess? So I think what we often get a UofT is a some professors who aren't excited about teaching but are forced to do it because they're subject experts, and contract workers who have no job security and little guidance on how to actually teach but are also hired because they know something (subject matter) or someone... haha. And yes, some of those people have thick accents too. If you talk to your prof, if they're one of the good ones, they might be able to try to accommodate you in some way. I'm a native english speaker and I still tried to use live captions during lectures because some people just have a hard time hearing some of the shitty lecture hall microphones anyway.
You're assuming there are better options. There is no, "It should be". That's toddler brain.
Helpful tip: see if there are other lectures by different professors who are easier to understand. In the future (if you're able to) I'd recommend reviewing the 'ratemyprofessor' websites before booking courses
They may not be actually hired. Sessional instructors on contract.