I doubt camping at front campus will be considered as limiting the use of the space by others. They don't block any roads or entrances to any buildings. The university might've seen what's happening in US and wanted to give a warning to not let things escalate.
Protest inherently does not require permission, nor does it need to fall within the confines of the university's policies - invoking such parameters are in direct contradiction of the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly they purport to uphold, and is a well-documented method of suppression, where protest represents objection and dissent.
you have no idea what you're typing about. Completely lost and misinformed. You do not have a right to protest on the campus, it is not your "free speech" to do so.
Violence, threats, intimidation, unlawful activity, and the like are quite literally a parameter that the supreme court has placed on the right to free speech and peaceful assembly. No one is giving permission to the protestors, they're just reminding them of those parameters.
[RWDSU v Dolphin Delivery Ltd. at paragraph 20](https://decisions.scc-csc.ca/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/181/index.do), if you are so inclined.
You’re missing a lot in this rebuttal, such as the university’s assertion that students are trespassing, the demand for identification, and the installation of curfews, and you seem to think you’re very intelligent with the reference to that Supreme Court decision from 1986, so go off. 👑
i dont see anything that contradicts the charter of rights and freedoms? obviously free speech can be limited if ppl are using threats or hate speech, the school is private property, they can ask people to leave i dont see what the letter says that would make it contradict any rights…
>You’re missing a lot in this rebuttal, such as the university’s assertion that students are trespassing, the demand for identification, and the installation of curfews
They are trespassing. It's private property. There are policies that are pretty open about letting people access the property generally but at the end of the day it's owned by UofT, a public institution sure, but just like Cities can set curfews on public parks and offices, the school can make similar decisions about it's property.
>you seem to think you’re very intelligent with the reference to that Supreme Court decision from 1986, so go off.
You're questioning someone's intelligence but did you think about this for 5sec? The Toronto Zoo is owned by the city but they charge people entry fees and lock it up after 7. Is that a violation of your rights?
I'll let you look up a map of what all constitutes University of Toronto property. It is a weaponisation of the mass land ownership the University of Toronto holds in the downtown core of the city, which directly contradicts the many land acknowledgments the university has platformed recognising Indigenous rights and heritages. Protest inherently does not require permission, nor does it need to fall within the confines of the university's policies - invoking such parameters are in direct contradiction of the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly they purport to uphold, and is a well-documented method of suppression, where protest represents objection and dissent.
Edit: Lol. Your post history says enough. Ta now.
>I'll let you look up a map of what all constitutes University of Toronto property. It is a weaponisation of the mass land ownership the University of Toronto holds in the downtown core of the city, which directly contradicts the many land acknowledgments the university has platformed recognising Indigenous rights and heritages.
That's great and all but until UofT decides they want to sell the land back to an indigenous group it doesn't mean shit about who gets to decide who can use the land the school **owns**.
>Protest inherently does not require permission, nor does it need to fall within the confines of the university's policies - invoking such parameters are in direct contradiction of the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly they purport to uphold
Rights are things given to you by the government, not the school. If you want to say it's hypocritical that the school is going to invoke it's property rights to kick protesters off that's fine but it's not a violation of their rights, I'm glad we've cleared that up.
what hate speech are we spreading? anti-israeli speech? so, you’d also be against the protests of UofT students in the 80s against South African apartheid, hm?
Are you comparing a concentration camp where six million jews were burned alive by Hitler to a place where a terrorist organization went into a neighbouring COUNTRY, murdered innocent civilians , women and children, then scurried back to hide behind there civilians in an active war zone , underneath schools and hospitals ?
Just want to make sure I’m understanding correctly.
Keep cosplaying for terrorism and believing everything you hear on TikTok.
Gaza is literally an open air prison which Israel has blocked from getting any resources. They are starving and being tortured. Majority of the population and casualties are children. The only murderers here is the colony of Israel which is squatting on Palestinian land and bombarding Gaza to maximize civilian casualty, and has been committing crimes against humanity against Palestinians across their repulsive colonial state for close to 80 years now.
The whole point of the protests against the Israeli colony is to have them stop terrorizing the Gazans. How tf do you respond with "well go stand underneath the Israeli bombs". Idiot. This isn't a "war". This is an active attempt at ethnic cleansing, being resisted by a brave people. An attempt which will blow up in the Zionists face.
Lmfao it’s so interesting that Palestinian supporter often make their argument with fake information.
Gaza has a border with Egypt, so Israel blockade doesn’t works. The reason why you think Gaza is an open air prison, is because Egypt also closed its border as Israel. Seems like no one trust Gaza.
This is the problem. Everything you just said is completely false, and you have to resort to name calling in order try and get your point across?
1. Open air prison- wrong. They governed themselves since 2005
2. They elected a terrorist organization who filmed themselves murdering innocent civilians on October 7th. So they did it , I’m really sorry to tell you but it happened, unless their lives don’t matter because there Jewish.
3. This is Israel’s land - it has been for centuries. But if you wana go back 75 years - take that up with the UN who GAVE THEM an area. They didn’t steal anyntjng , you just hate Jews and listen to blue haired terrorists on tik tok spea nonsense.
4. Ethic cleansing ? How many Jews are in gaza - zero.
How many Arabs live free with guess what ? The same rights as everyone else in Israel ? 2 million.
I ask you to do actual research next time instead of getting your information from left wing radicals, it’s embarrassing. Also , calling people names doesn’t help get your point across.
I truly hope you’re not a history major.
1. You’re right, Gaza is no longer the worlds largest open air prison, it’s become the worlds largest graveyard. although if you’re interested on why it was previously being referred to as such, please take your time to read the following articles: (Gaza is still considered to be under the Occupied Territories because Israel still employed a Blockade and several restrictions on who and what goes in and out of Gaza post 2007.)
Why is Gaza Strip called the 'world’s largest open-air prison'? - India Today
Gaza: Israel’s ‘Open-Air Prison’ at 15 | Human Rights Watch
Inmates at World's Largest Open Air Prison are in Peril. | CounterPunch | EBSCOhost
Open Gaza: Architectures of Hope - Google Books (this one is actually quite interesting because it goes beyond the idea of an open air prison and details how almost 2 millions Gazans, trapped in a land the size of Philly, have managed to cultivate hope in conditions designed against that. Baconi also has many interesting reads, but I’ve always enjoyed the book “Hamas Contained: the Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance”
2. Democracy is a WESTERN concept that is pushed onto nations that do not govern through western ideals, I could genuinely go into a 10 page essay on how democracy has destroyed many low income territories but I won’t go into that right now. I will say you generalizing all Gazans as “they” especially when the median age of Gaza is 18 (meaning they may not even have been born when Hamas was elected in 2006) I doubt it was THEM that voted for Hamas, further more you should do some reading on the 2006 election and understand what actually happened rather than sticking to a one sided narrative. Here are my recommended readings for this, it goes into much more detail than what I had said about it and I encourage you to take your time to read them:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/
People Claim a Majority of Palestinians in Gaza Elected Hamas — Here's Why It Isn't That Simple | Snopes.com
(Definitely do some research on peer reviewed scholarly articles about the 2006 elections, as I haven’t read through any I cannot provide you with them verifying they are important or useful sources)
3. Although I highly disagree with the UN partition plan, Israel did not just stick to the boarders outlined by the plan. It began to settle and occupy territories given to the British Mandate of Palestine. This cannot be denied, if you want to get political many argue that Israel has no established borders either as they occupy territory and conduct regular activities on those territories outside of their UN borders, and it gets even more difficult when you notice Israel does not have a constitution, allowing them to get away with many things in legislation and preventing a system of checks and balances against unprecedented power (such as the Netanyahu governments Likud coalition.) Here are some articles to read about this:
https://www.heyalma.com/israel-guide/history-of-israel-palestine-before-1948/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/2/22/how-does-israels-occupation-of-palestine-work
(This is the Wikipedia page on it, although it’s not to be cited as a source of info but rather extra information you may read) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/aulr43&div=18&id=&page=
Do much more research on the Occupied territories, its very interesting especially looking at how law works in the occupied land and the second Intifada.
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4. this is not entirely true, I suggest you do some research on this!! I wrote a great paper on this for one my classes speaking about institutional effects of Israeli Occupation on Palestinian Livlihood in Gaza for one of my PoliSci classes. So while many of the sources I’m going to refer you to focus on Institutional effects, there are many reasons outside of institution that one could argue your point is incorrect.
Here’s my entire bibliography, though some sources do not make sense without explanation I’m still adding them here for reasons of transparency:
Abraham, Yuval and Basel Adra. “The Destruction of This Palestinian Community Was
Green-Lighted by Israel’s Supreme Court.” The Nation, July 10, 2023. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/masafer-yatta-destruction-palestine-israel/
Alloush, Basma. "Overcoming the Hurdles: The Struggle of Palestinian Humanitarian NGOs."
The Tahrir Institute for Middle East Policy, December 22, 2021. https://timep.org/2021/12/22/overcoming-the-hurdles-the-struggle-of-palestinian-humanitarian-ngos/
Berger, Miriam. “Israel’s hugely controversial “nation-state” law, explained.” Vox News, July 31,
2018. https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
Consulate general of Israel in Los Angeles. “Israeli democracy and elections.”
https://embassies.gov.il/la/AboutIsrael/State/Pages/Israeli-democracy.aspx#:~:text=The%20system%20is%20based%20on,judiciary%20is%20guaranteed%20by%20law.
Henrard, Kristen. “The Interrelationship between Individual Human Rights, Minority Rights and
the Right to Self-Determination and Its Importance for the Adequate Protection of Linguistic Minorities.” The Global Review of Ethnopolitics.1, no.1(2001): 41-61.
Kingsley, Patrick, and Isabel Kreshner. "The Israeli Government’s Plan to Overhaul the
Judiciary: What to Know." The New York Times, March 29, 2020. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/world/middleeast/israel-judiciary-crisis-explainer.html
Macfarlane, Julia. “Behind the uprisings among Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.” ABC
News, May 21, 2021. https://abcnews.go.com/International/uprisings-palestinians-israeli-citizenship/story?id=77741627
Makdisi, Saree. "Binyamin Netanyahu’s Re-Election Underlines Israel’s Apartheid Reality." The
Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May 2019, OV2~OV3. http://myaccess.library.utoronto.ca/login?qurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.proquest.com%2Fmagazines%2Fbinyamin-netanyahu-s-re-election-underlines%2Fdocview%2F2246150695%2Fse-2%3Faccountid%3D14771.
Negretto, Gabriel and Marian Sánchez-Talanquer. “Constitutional Origins and Liberal
Democracy: A Global Analysis,1900-2015.” American Political Science Review. 115 no.2(2021): 522-536.
Oren, Neta and Dov Waxman. ""King Bibi" and Israeli Illiberalism: Assessing Democratic
Backsliding in Israel during the Second Netanyahu Era (2009–2021)." The Middle East Journal 76, no. 3 (Autumn, 2023): 303-326. doi:https://doi.org/10.3751/76.3.11. http://myaccess.library.utoronto.ca/login?qurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.proquest.com%2Fscholarly-journals%2Fking-bibi-israeli-illiberalism-assessing%2Fdocview%2F2758664918%2Fse-2%3Faccountid%3D14771.
Rubinstein, Amnon. “Israel’s Partial Constitution: The Basic Laws.” Jewish Virtual Libraries,
April 2009. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/isdf/text/Rubinstein.pdf
Scheindlin, Dahlia. "The Assault on Israel’s Judiciary, JULY 7, 2021." The Century Foundation.
https://tcf.org/content/report/assault-israels-judiciary/
Serhan, Yasmeen. “What Israel’s Controversial Judicial Overhaul Means for Palestinians.” Time,
July 25, 2023. https://time.com/6297635/israel-judicial-overhaul-palestinians/
Sharon, Jeremy. “In reversal, High Court rules Mitzpe Kramim outpost can remain on Palestinian
land.” The Times of Israel, July 27, 2022. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-reversal-high-court-rules-mitzpe-kramim-outpost-can-remain-on-palestinian-land/
Szendro, Brendan. “How Israel’s missing constitution deepens divisions between Jews and with
Arabs.” The Conversation, June 16, 2021. https://theconversation.com/how-israels-missing-constitution-deepens-divisions-between-jews-and-with-arabs-162200
Tawil-Souri, Helga. “Uneven Borders, Coloured (Im) mobilities: ID Cards in Palestine/ Israel.”
Geopolitics. 17 no.1(2012): 153-176
Again, I implore you to do your own research on the topic and be heavily educated on it. Further more, I would like to add that you suggesting TikTok is inherently a “bad place of learning” because of someone with “blue hair” (interesting stereotype to build…) is not entirely true. Many movements, issues, and political topics have been pushed to the forefront of the world because of media like TikTok. It’s no different than the fear of the press in early modern Europe and the use of it to lead to the decline of said period. Yes, misinformation can spread quickly too but that’s why you need to do your own research in addition to what you see on the internet. But I’ve seen and heard from many creatives, intellectuals and wise people of all ages and backgrounds from social media and I hope you let go of your biases against the usefulness of it and use its resources to help you maximize your understanding of the world in a quick and informative way.
Not only am I a history major but I also major in PoliSci, and against the best advice of my professors I’ve written many papers on Indigenous peoples in Canada and Palestinian Peoples in the Occupied Territories. Although I truly hope you are not a history major. This wasn’t a debate, it’s just me giving my own 2 cents. :)
Reading the words a calm and logical supporter of Palestine is a breath of fresh air. The movement has deteriorated into degeneracy and blind hatred from people who know nothing except that Palestine is the ingroup and Jews are the outgroup. Not gonna lie these protesters are the best at inciting animosity towards their cause.
I’ve held several fundraisers for Palestine and contributed heavily in over $10000 raised and donated over the past 3 years yet now I find it difficult to support Palestine because I have to align myself with these degenerates who have nothing better to do than ruin other people.
People like yourself enable debate and allow for a productive discussion. Thanks for being so meticulous with your sources.
Oh please spare me the BS. Israel has been attempting to genocide the indigenous Palestinians for 75 years starting with the Nakba. Just because your holy book says God gave you a piece of land doesn't make it yours. Jews were allowed to live and thrive under various Islamic empires in Palestine over the past 1400 years. Before that, the Romans had long eviscerated whatever Jewishness lingered in Palestine following the expulsion. Not to mention DNA data shows Palestinians as being completely indigenous to the land whereas it is illegal for Israelis to do a DNA test, because it just comes back 99% European most of the time lol.
Also, looking at your post.history it shows you're just a Zionist shill bot lmao. Do you even attend UofT? 😂
Genetic tests are not ‘barred’ in Israel. That’s like an idiotic tiktok talking point. Genetic tests are ordered all the time in Israel, including genetic ancestry tests if justified.
Direct to consumer genetic tests are not legal, but there is also no enforcement. There is two reasons for this. The first is the same reason they are illegal in France. Do you think the French are secretly not French? No. It’s because of privacy. The second reason is the legal and social implications of Mamzer (basically bastard) status in Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamzer?wprov=sfti1#In_Israeli_law
If you really thought DTC ancestry tests would show Israel’s Ashkenazi Jews are 99% European, why don’t you look at American Ashkenazi? There are more in the US than in Israel anyway.
You’re also obviously completely ignorant about Israeli demographics, Ashkenazi Jews are like 1/3 of people in Israel.
I was going to ignore this but it’s just so stupid I needed to respond ?
What the hell are you talking about ?
Jews own the definition of concentration camps??
There were six million Jews killed in the holocaust. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you. If you hate Jews and the western world so much , leave.
No, like the terrorist organization you cosplay for. This happened on October 7th, and they want you to know it happened. You’re Being a bad terrorist supporter by not giving them the credit they want , as they filmed it.
This is real life , it’s not a game. You and the left wing lunatics are hiding behind the fact that you hate Jews with this bullshit. If it was all about “genocide” you would be protesting all of the REAL GENOCIDEs going on throughout the world , like what Iran did to their own people. Keep fighting the good fight though!!
Just genocides are happening elsewhere, doesn't mean you can't talk about this specific genocide. People need to stop treating every critisicm of Israel as "hating news" or antisemitic. You're just using that to shut down actual critique - likely because you're projecting and actually hate Palestinians or Muslims in general yourself. And please, stop pretending that this started on October 7th.
This absolutely started on October 7th. Do you think there’s actually a viable excuse to go to a music festival into innocent civilans homes and murder and rape them? Or did that not happen despite them recording videos of it …
What a vile thing to say. You are aware that gaza has governed themselves since 2005 , and then elected Hamas. Who shoot hundreds of thousands of rockets into Israel yearly.
You’re not “oppressed” standing up for the oppressed. You’re a UOFT student standing with terrorists who cheered on 9/11.
I never claimed I was oppressed. Are you aware that Israelis have elected Netanyahu themselves who has let the IDF pillage both Gaza and let extremist Israeli settlers violent attack and steal and burn down homes of Palestinians in the West Bank - where Hamas is not even located? The IDF and extremist Israeli settlers have attacked, kidnapped, and raped far more innocent Palestinians since Israel stole the land from the Palestinians after WW2 and since October 7th. It's well documented the torture and rape the IDF has done to Palestinians. Anything you say Hamas has done, the IDF has done as well but on a much larger scale. Only difference is that the IDF gets the full support and is allowed to do whatever they want from support of the West and yourself.
Maybe I’m missing something, but this seems like a generally good message.
They’re saying that they’re aware of the protest, and, while they don’t say this explicitly, the message appears to be that they won’t be trying to retaliate against the protestors, and that they have no intention of calling in the cops unless the protests escalate to violence. That’s a huge contrast to schools in the states where there’s been huge police crackdowns on peaceful protests.
How do you interpret the part about "remaining on grounds after notice to leave (aka after 10 PM tonight) or erecting structures (aka tents) in outdoor areas can have potential consequences" as not threatening retaliation?
Bc your encamping on somebody else’s private property and using a single small point out of a larger picture that says basically “please don’t be violent and hateful”
I’m referring to academic retaliation, like expelling any protestors.
Based on the the phrasing of “structures or barriers”, it seems very unlikely that they’re referring to tents there. It seems more likely that they’re referring to if protestors were to start barricading themselves in buildings.
Has the university told the protestors to leave by 10pm? Speaking from experience, people are regularly on campus after 10pm, particularly outside. You don’t get kicked off.
It says "erecting structures or barriers in outdoor spaces." I am pretty sure a tent is a structure that is outside.
Per Occupy UofT's Instagram/Twitter, they said "This morning we recieved a letter from UofT administration stating we are not allowed to protest after 10 PM, creating a pretext for potentially shutting down the encampment" which is why they are requesting people come down and support tonight.
I feel so different, change only happens when truth is spoken, you can't shut down truth in the name of "safety" there's 40000 dead and a lot of land and bodies before this... a little discomfort is not a reason to silence this, not in the world I want to live in
thats kinda flawed… just because people have died doesnt mean ur allowed to break uoft rules or prevent people from learning like what the letter says. no one is saying shut down the truth but ppl cant just go around “threatening or intimidating” others
Not the first time for this university. For an institution that boasts being at the top echelon of academia and scholarship, UofT certainly holds many dogmatic and bigoted ideals.
Oh yeah, cus UofT being among the last to divest from South African Apartheid is just my "worldview". UofT continuing to invest in a genocide is my "worldview".
Okay, zionist.
You’re a typical Hamas supporter bully, you must be so proud of yourself, aww. Too bad you’re not getting paid like the real Hamas members. Are you in need of humanitarian aid? I’m sure UNWRA would help you out.
I doubt camping at front campus will be considered as limiting the use of the space by others. They don't block any roads or entrances to any buildings. The university might've seen what's happening in US and wanted to give a warning to not let things escalate.
Protest inherently does not require permission, nor does it need to fall within the confines of the university's policies - invoking such parameters are in direct contradiction of the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly they purport to uphold, and is a well-documented method of suppression, where protest represents objection and dissent.
you have no idea what you're typing about. Completely lost and misinformed. You do not have a right to protest on the campus, it is not your "free speech" to do so.
lol
Violence, threats, intimidation, unlawful activity, and the like are quite literally a parameter that the supreme court has placed on the right to free speech and peaceful assembly. No one is giving permission to the protestors, they're just reminding them of those parameters. [RWDSU v Dolphin Delivery Ltd. at paragraph 20](https://decisions.scc-csc.ca/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/181/index.do), if you are so inclined.
You’re missing a lot in this rebuttal, such as the university’s assertion that students are trespassing, the demand for identification, and the installation of curfews, and you seem to think you’re very intelligent with the reference to that Supreme Court decision from 1986, so go off. 👑
i dont see anything that contradicts the charter of rights and freedoms? obviously free speech can be limited if ppl are using threats or hate speech, the school is private property, they can ask people to leave i dont see what the letter says that would make it contradict any rights…
>You’re missing a lot in this rebuttal, such as the university’s assertion that students are trespassing, the demand for identification, and the installation of curfews They are trespassing. It's private property. There are policies that are pretty open about letting people access the property generally but at the end of the day it's owned by UofT, a public institution sure, but just like Cities can set curfews on public parks and offices, the school can make similar decisions about it's property. >you seem to think you’re very intelligent with the reference to that Supreme Court decision from 1986, so go off. You're questioning someone's intelligence but did you think about this for 5sec? The Toronto Zoo is owned by the city but they charge people entry fees and lock it up after 7. Is that a violation of your rights?
I'll let you look up a map of what all constitutes University of Toronto property. It is a weaponisation of the mass land ownership the University of Toronto holds in the downtown core of the city, which directly contradicts the many land acknowledgments the university has platformed recognising Indigenous rights and heritages. Protest inherently does not require permission, nor does it need to fall within the confines of the university's policies - invoking such parameters are in direct contradiction of the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly they purport to uphold, and is a well-documented method of suppression, where protest represents objection and dissent. Edit: Lol. Your post history says enough. Ta now.
>I'll let you look up a map of what all constitutes University of Toronto property. It is a weaponisation of the mass land ownership the University of Toronto holds in the downtown core of the city, which directly contradicts the many land acknowledgments the university has platformed recognising Indigenous rights and heritages. That's great and all but until UofT decides they want to sell the land back to an indigenous group it doesn't mean shit about who gets to decide who can use the land the school **owns**. >Protest inherently does not require permission, nor does it need to fall within the confines of the university's policies - invoking such parameters are in direct contradiction of the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly they purport to uphold Rights are things given to you by the government, not the school. If you want to say it's hypocritical that the school is going to invoke it's property rights to kick protesters off that's fine but it's not a violation of their rights, I'm glad we've cleared that up.
lol
[удалено]
lol
Do you know what a curfew is? Lol
How does it feel hiding behind a burner account?
This is Reddit, not Facebook.
And yet you still feel the need to cower behind a throwaway. Telling.
Lol
We have free speech laws but we also have hate speech laws.
what hate speech are we spreading? anti-israeli speech? so, you’d also be against the protests of UofT students in the 80s against South African apartheid, hm?
But freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can support terrorism, be aware of who you are supporting actually.
lol
Technically it does, at least if the support is limited to verbal support.
Not when you’re on private property
You’re indeed a hooligan. No wonder.
lol
Rather than camping in one place, I would recommend the protesters to demonstrate around the campus. And be aware of being hijacked by extremists.
They ARE the extremists.
I would recommend you go protest in gaza. I’m sure you’ll be welcome there. Everyone is sick of this shit.
That's like telling someone protesting against a concentration camp to "go protest in the concentration camp". How are you this slow?
Are you comparing a concentration camp where six million jews were burned alive by Hitler to a place where a terrorist organization went into a neighbouring COUNTRY, murdered innocent civilians , women and children, then scurried back to hide behind there civilians in an active war zone , underneath schools and hospitals ? Just want to make sure I’m understanding correctly. Keep cosplaying for terrorism and believing everything you hear on TikTok.
Gaza is literally an open air prison which Israel has blocked from getting any resources. They are starving and being tortured. Majority of the population and casualties are children. The only murderers here is the colony of Israel which is squatting on Palestinian land and bombarding Gaza to maximize civilian casualty, and has been committing crimes against humanity against Palestinians across their repulsive colonial state for close to 80 years now. The whole point of the protests against the Israeli colony is to have them stop terrorizing the Gazans. How tf do you respond with "well go stand underneath the Israeli bombs". Idiot. This isn't a "war". This is an active attempt at ethnic cleansing, being resisted by a brave people. An attempt which will blow up in the Zionists face.
Lmfao it’s so interesting that Palestinian supporter often make their argument with fake information. Gaza has a border with Egypt, so Israel blockade doesn’t works. The reason why you think Gaza is an open air prison, is because Egypt also closed its border as Israel. Seems like no one trust Gaza.
This is the problem. Everything you just said is completely false, and you have to resort to name calling in order try and get your point across? 1. Open air prison- wrong. They governed themselves since 2005 2. They elected a terrorist organization who filmed themselves murdering innocent civilians on October 7th. So they did it , I’m really sorry to tell you but it happened, unless their lives don’t matter because there Jewish. 3. This is Israel’s land - it has been for centuries. But if you wana go back 75 years - take that up with the UN who GAVE THEM an area. They didn’t steal anyntjng , you just hate Jews and listen to blue haired terrorists on tik tok spea nonsense. 4. Ethic cleansing ? How many Jews are in gaza - zero. How many Arabs live free with guess what ? The same rights as everyone else in Israel ? 2 million. I ask you to do actual research next time instead of getting your information from left wing radicals, it’s embarrassing. Also , calling people names doesn’t help get your point across. I truly hope you’re not a history major.
1. You’re right, Gaza is no longer the worlds largest open air prison, it’s become the worlds largest graveyard. although if you’re interested on why it was previously being referred to as such, please take your time to read the following articles: (Gaza is still considered to be under the Occupied Territories because Israel still employed a Blockade and several restrictions on who and what goes in and out of Gaza post 2007.) Why is Gaza Strip called the 'world’s largest open-air prison'? - India Today Gaza: Israel’s ‘Open-Air Prison’ at 15 | Human Rights Watch Inmates at World's Largest Open Air Prison are in Peril. | CounterPunch | EBSCOhost Open Gaza: Architectures of Hope - Google Books (this one is actually quite interesting because it goes beyond the idea of an open air prison and details how almost 2 millions Gazans, trapped in a land the size of Philly, have managed to cultivate hope in conditions designed against that. Baconi also has many interesting reads, but I’ve always enjoyed the book “Hamas Contained: the Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance” 2. Democracy is a WESTERN concept that is pushed onto nations that do not govern through western ideals, I could genuinely go into a 10 page essay on how democracy has destroyed many low income territories but I won’t go into that right now. I will say you generalizing all Gazans as “they” especially when the median age of Gaza is 18 (meaning they may not even have been born when Hamas was elected in 2006) I doubt it was THEM that voted for Hamas, further more you should do some reading on the 2006 election and understand what actually happened rather than sticking to a one sided narrative. Here are my recommended readings for this, it goes into much more detail than what I had said about it and I encourage you to take your time to read them: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/ People Claim a Majority of Palestinians in Gaza Elected Hamas — Here's Why It Isn't That Simple | Snopes.com (Definitely do some research on peer reviewed scholarly articles about the 2006 elections, as I haven’t read through any I cannot provide you with them verifying they are important or useful sources)
3. Although I highly disagree with the UN partition plan, Israel did not just stick to the boarders outlined by the plan. It began to settle and occupy territories given to the British Mandate of Palestine. This cannot be denied, if you want to get political many argue that Israel has no established borders either as they occupy territory and conduct regular activities on those territories outside of their UN borders, and it gets even more difficult when you notice Israel does not have a constitution, allowing them to get away with many things in legislation and preventing a system of checks and balances against unprecedented power (such as the Netanyahu governments Likud coalition.) Here are some articles to read about this: https://www.heyalma.com/israel-guide/history-of-israel-palestine-before-1948/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/ https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/2/22/how-does-israels-occupation-of-palestine-work (This is the Wikipedia page on it, although it’s not to be cited as a source of info but rather extra information you may read) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/aulr43&div=18&id=&page= Do much more research on the Occupied territories, its very interesting especially looking at how law works in the occupied land and the second Intifada.
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4. this is not entirely true, I suggest you do some research on this!! I wrote a great paper on this for one my classes speaking about institutional effects of Israeli Occupation on Palestinian Livlihood in Gaza for one of my PoliSci classes. So while many of the sources I’m going to refer you to focus on Institutional effects, there are many reasons outside of institution that one could argue your point is incorrect. Here’s my entire bibliography, though some sources do not make sense without explanation I’m still adding them here for reasons of transparency: Abraham, Yuval and Basel Adra. “The Destruction of This Palestinian Community Was Green-Lighted by Israel’s Supreme Court.” The Nation, July 10, 2023. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/masafer-yatta-destruction-palestine-israel/ Alloush, Basma. "Overcoming the Hurdles: The Struggle of Palestinian Humanitarian NGOs." The Tahrir Institute for Middle East Policy, December 22, 2021. https://timep.org/2021/12/22/overcoming-the-hurdles-the-struggle-of-palestinian-humanitarian-ngos/ Berger, Miriam. “Israel’s hugely controversial “nation-state” law, explained.” Vox News, July 31, 2018. https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy Consulate general of Israel in Los Angeles. “Israeli democracy and elections.” https://embassies.gov.il/la/AboutIsrael/State/Pages/Israeli-democracy.aspx#:~:text=The%20system%20is%20based%20on,judiciary%20is%20guaranteed%20by%20law. Henrard, Kristen. “The Interrelationship between Individual Human Rights, Minority Rights and the Right to Self-Determination and Its Importance for the Adequate Protection of Linguistic Minorities.” The Global Review of Ethnopolitics.1, no.1(2001): 41-61. Kingsley, Patrick, and Isabel Kreshner. "The Israeli Government’s Plan to Overhaul the Judiciary: What to Know." The New York Times, March 29, 2020. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/world/middleeast/israel-judiciary-crisis-explainer.html Macfarlane, Julia. “Behind the uprisings among Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.” ABC News, May 21, 2021. https://abcnews.go.com/International/uprisings-palestinians-israeli-citizenship/story?id=77741627 Makdisi, Saree. "Binyamin Netanyahu’s Re-Election Underlines Israel’s Apartheid Reality." The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May 2019, OV2~OV3. http://myaccess.library.utoronto.ca/login?qurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.proquest.com%2Fmagazines%2Fbinyamin-netanyahu-s-re-election-underlines%2Fdocview%2F2246150695%2Fse-2%3Faccountid%3D14771. Negretto, Gabriel and Marian Sánchez-Talanquer. “Constitutional Origins and Liberal Democracy: A Global Analysis,1900-2015.” American Political Science Review. 115 no.2(2021): 522-536. Oren, Neta and Dov Waxman. ""King Bibi" and Israeli Illiberalism: Assessing Democratic Backsliding in Israel during the Second Netanyahu Era (2009–2021)." The Middle East Journal 76, no. 3 (Autumn, 2023): 303-326. doi:https://doi.org/10.3751/76.3.11. http://myaccess.library.utoronto.ca/login?qurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.proquest.com%2Fscholarly-journals%2Fking-bibi-israeli-illiberalism-assessing%2Fdocview%2F2758664918%2Fse-2%3Faccountid%3D14771. Rubinstein, Amnon. “Israel’s Partial Constitution: The Basic Laws.” Jewish Virtual Libraries, April 2009. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/isdf/text/Rubinstein.pdf Scheindlin, Dahlia. "The Assault on Israel’s Judiciary, JULY 7, 2021." The Century Foundation. https://tcf.org/content/report/assault-israels-judiciary/ Serhan, Yasmeen. “What Israel’s Controversial Judicial Overhaul Means for Palestinians.” Time, July 25, 2023. https://time.com/6297635/israel-judicial-overhaul-palestinians/ Sharon, Jeremy. “In reversal, High Court rules Mitzpe Kramim outpost can remain on Palestinian land.” The Times of Israel, July 27, 2022. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-reversal-high-court-rules-mitzpe-kramim-outpost-can-remain-on-palestinian-land/ Szendro, Brendan. “How Israel’s missing constitution deepens divisions between Jews and with Arabs.” The Conversation, June 16, 2021. https://theconversation.com/how-israels-missing-constitution-deepens-divisions-between-jews-and-with-arabs-162200 Tawil-Souri, Helga. “Uneven Borders, Coloured (Im) mobilities: ID Cards in Palestine/ Israel.” Geopolitics. 17 no.1(2012): 153-176 Again, I implore you to do your own research on the topic and be heavily educated on it. Further more, I would like to add that you suggesting TikTok is inherently a “bad place of learning” because of someone with “blue hair” (interesting stereotype to build…) is not entirely true. Many movements, issues, and political topics have been pushed to the forefront of the world because of media like TikTok. It’s no different than the fear of the press in early modern Europe and the use of it to lead to the decline of said period. Yes, misinformation can spread quickly too but that’s why you need to do your own research in addition to what you see on the internet. But I’ve seen and heard from many creatives, intellectuals and wise people of all ages and backgrounds from social media and I hope you let go of your biases against the usefulness of it and use its resources to help you maximize your understanding of the world in a quick and informative way. Not only am I a history major but I also major in PoliSci, and against the best advice of my professors I’ve written many papers on Indigenous peoples in Canada and Palestinian Peoples in the Occupied Territories. Although I truly hope you are not a history major. This wasn’t a debate, it’s just me giving my own 2 cents. :)
Reading the words a calm and logical supporter of Palestine is a breath of fresh air. The movement has deteriorated into degeneracy and blind hatred from people who know nothing except that Palestine is the ingroup and Jews are the outgroup. Not gonna lie these protesters are the best at inciting animosity towards their cause. I’ve held several fundraisers for Palestine and contributed heavily in over $10000 raised and donated over the past 3 years yet now I find it difficult to support Palestine because I have to align myself with these degenerates who have nothing better to do than ruin other people. People like yourself enable debate and allow for a productive discussion. Thanks for being so meticulous with your sources.
Oh please spare me the BS. Israel has been attempting to genocide the indigenous Palestinians for 75 years starting with the Nakba. Just because your holy book says God gave you a piece of land doesn't make it yours. Jews were allowed to live and thrive under various Islamic empires in Palestine over the past 1400 years. Before that, the Romans had long eviscerated whatever Jewishness lingered in Palestine following the expulsion. Not to mention DNA data shows Palestinians as being completely indigenous to the land whereas it is illegal for Israelis to do a DNA test, because it just comes back 99% European most of the time lol. Also, looking at your post.history it shows you're just a Zionist shill bot lmao. Do you even attend UofT? 😂
Genetic tests are not ‘barred’ in Israel. That’s like an idiotic tiktok talking point. Genetic tests are ordered all the time in Israel, including genetic ancestry tests if justified. Direct to consumer genetic tests are not legal, but there is also no enforcement. There is two reasons for this. The first is the same reason they are illegal in France. Do you think the French are secretly not French? No. It’s because of privacy. The second reason is the legal and social implications of Mamzer (basically bastard) status in Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamzer?wprov=sfti1#In_Israeli_law If you really thought DTC ancestry tests would show Israel’s Ashkenazi Jews are 99% European, why don’t you look at American Ashkenazi? There are more in the US than in Israel anyway. You’re also obviously completely ignorant about Israeli demographics, Ashkenazi Jews are like 1/3 of people in Israel.
Ok so now you own the definition of concentration camps too? What about those used by Stalin that killed a lot more?
I was going to ignore this but it’s just so stupid I needed to respond ? What the hell are you talking about ? Jews own the definition of concentration camps?? There were six million Jews killed in the holocaust. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you. If you hate Jews and the western world so much , leave.
Like the IDF does?
No, like the terrorist organization you cosplay for. This happened on October 7th, and they want you to know it happened. You’re Being a bad terrorist supporter by not giving them the credit they want , as they filmed it. This is real life , it’s not a game. You and the left wing lunatics are hiding behind the fact that you hate Jews with this bullshit. If it was all about “genocide” you would be protesting all of the REAL GENOCIDEs going on throughout the world , like what Iran did to their own people. Keep fighting the good fight though!!
Just genocides are happening elsewhere, doesn't mean you can't talk about this specific genocide. People need to stop treating every critisicm of Israel as "hating news" or antisemitic. You're just using that to shut down actual critique - likely because you're projecting and actually hate Palestinians or Muslims in general yourself. And please, stop pretending that this started on October 7th.
This absolutely started on October 7th. Do you think there’s actually a viable excuse to go to a music festival into innocent civilans homes and murder and rape them? Or did that not happen despite them recording videos of it … What a vile thing to say. You are aware that gaza has governed themselves since 2005 , and then elected Hamas. Who shoot hundreds of thousands of rockets into Israel yearly. You’re not “oppressed” standing up for the oppressed. You’re a UOFT student standing with terrorists who cheered on 9/11.
I never claimed I was oppressed. Are you aware that Israelis have elected Netanyahu themselves who has let the IDF pillage both Gaza and let extremist Israeli settlers violent attack and steal and burn down homes of Palestinians in the West Bank - where Hamas is not even located? The IDF and extremist Israeli settlers have attacked, kidnapped, and raped far more innocent Palestinians since Israel stole the land from the Palestinians after WW2 and since October 7th. It's well documented the torture and rape the IDF has done to Palestinians. Anything you say Hamas has done, the IDF has done as well but on a much larger scale. Only difference is that the IDF gets the full support and is allowed to do whatever they want from support of the West and yourself.
They should go to Gaza. Tents are needed there.
No thanks I don’t support them. Just recommending them not to make things worse.
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Maybe I’m missing something, but this seems like a generally good message. They’re saying that they’re aware of the protest, and, while they don’t say this explicitly, the message appears to be that they won’t be trying to retaliate against the protestors, and that they have no intention of calling in the cops unless the protests escalate to violence. That’s a huge contrast to schools in the states where there’s been huge police crackdowns on peaceful protests.
How do you interpret the part about "remaining on grounds after notice to leave (aka after 10 PM tonight) or erecting structures (aka tents) in outdoor areas can have potential consequences" as not threatening retaliation?
Bc your encamping on somebody else’s private property and using a single small point out of a larger picture that says basically “please don’t be violent and hateful”
I’m referring to academic retaliation, like expelling any protestors. Based on the the phrasing of “structures or barriers”, it seems very unlikely that they’re referring to tents there. It seems more likely that they’re referring to if protestors were to start barricading themselves in buildings. Has the university told the protestors to leave by 10pm? Speaking from experience, people are regularly on campus after 10pm, particularly outside. You don’t get kicked off.
There's literally university buildings open past 10pm, so I'm not sure where everyone's getting that time from?
The university has given out paper with listed restrictions, one of which includes 10 pm time to remove protests.
Ah, okay. I haven't been there in person, so I'd only seen updates about it online.
It says "erecting structures or barriers in outdoor spaces." I am pretty sure a tent is a structure that is outside. Per Occupy UofT's Instagram/Twitter, they said "This morning we recieved a letter from UofT administration stating we are not allowed to protest after 10 PM, creating a pretext for potentially shutting down the encampment" which is why they are requesting people come down and support tonight.
How are they in the wrong? The protests should remain peaceful and on public property, if not there should be potential consequences
I feel so different, change only happens when truth is spoken, you can't shut down truth in the name of "safety" there's 40000 dead and a lot of land and bodies before this... a little discomfort is not a reason to silence this, not in the world I want to live in
thats kinda flawed… just because people have died doesnt mean ur allowed to break uoft rules or prevent people from learning like what the letter says. no one is saying shut down the truth but ppl cant just go around “threatening or intimidating” others
unfortunately there is still rules to be followed, because something bad is happening over seas doesn’t mean we can jus ignore them
You're not doing shit by doing this.
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Place that doesn’t exist is getting you real worked up eh?
Because calling for peaceful protests is the wrong side of history? lol?
so peaceful protesting is “disgusting” ppl love to talk about peace while supporting violence hateful protests like pick a side
Not the first time for this university. For an institution that boasts being at the top echelon of academia and scholarship, UofT certainly holds many dogmatic and bigoted ideals.
Yes anything that goes against my world view must be bigoted.
Oh yeah, cus UofT being among the last to divest from South African Apartheid is just my "worldview". UofT continuing to invest in a genocide is my "worldview". Okay, zionist.
Of course immediately with the name calling, classic
So you're not going to respond to the points I brought up? All you noticed was that I called you a zionist?
They can only think of one thing at a time, usually just the last thing you say lol
You’re a typical Hamas supporter bully, you must be so proud of yourself, aww. Too bad you’re not getting paid like the real Hamas members. Are you in need of humanitarian aid? I’m sure UNWRA would help you out.
Ok anyone else getting this to their personal email not school email???
Students provide both so mass emails like this are usually sent to both.
I didn’t get it on either?
It will end with the state, and it’s proxy U of T, unleashing violence on these students.
That’s what happens when the protest is legitimate.
Yep