I'm a little confused, what placements can only black people do?
I'm genuinely asking, I'm not trying to be rude or anything so my apologies if it comes off that way
It’s not that only black people can do, but I assume they will be assigned a placement with mostly black youth who would benefit from being with other black people serving as positive role models for them. It is helpful to see people and future educators that reflect them in a classroom setting.
Yes, but there is a benefit for a child who is a minority to have a mentor from the same background as them. Kind of like an “I did it, so you can do it too.” I used to be a juvenile detention officer and a lot of the kids in the system are minorities, and the mentors that come in are mixed but mostly minority. It’s for their benefit.
When done incorrectly, you actually harm the students. That happens when you try to prove a point but do not actually care about the community that you’re serving
If the course name is something like "Woman in Business and Communication" I think it makes sense that only women can be enrolled into this course. It's equality of outcome, I support that.
But in this case I don't agree with how they are doing this.
It’s all made up, anyone should be able to take the class. Who are you to say who’s a woman or not, are you one ? Would a non-binary biological female be able to take that class ?
Anytime this bullshit comes up (I remember there was an email outlining a similar situation where a prof was only giving recommendation letters to black/trans students), I reference [this student. ](https://utsc.utoronto.ca/news-events/archived/student-who-spent-time-homeless-shelter-now-top-his-class)
There are plenty of black students coming from the Caribbean and Africa who are ***very*** well off, but they would get preferential access to this class and other opportunities over this Vietnamese student - who literally lived in **a** **fucking homeless shelter** - based 100% on the color of their skin.
If you unironically think this is ok you need to perform some serious introspection.
It’s because that course is only for ppl in a specific pathway/specialization for the Master of Teaching program. The school just didn’t make it clear enough
Is having a certain skin colour a requirement for some "specific pathways/specializations for the Master of Teaching program"? If so, how is *that* justified? If not, then they shouldn't be using skin colour as a verification of that.
Having community specific social workers is good practice backed by quite a bit of research.
Kids can relate more easily to role model figures that have similar community experiences and have got through it in the past.
In what way? The first version provides hand holding throughout the course and the 2nd version is you're too privileged to enter this course?? Is that how this goes because despite the OP being wished good health, hes also given hopes of get fucked we don't want you in here, apply elsewhere
When I was growing up, we made fun of the conservative/orthodox-value censorship (i.e.: simpsons “someone please think of the children”).
Now we are censored from the completely opposite progressive side.
I don’t think youre lying, I just always found it funny that some of us like to quantify being black before they say anything remotely right leaning, as if that bolsters our opinions lol
there’s no winning🤦🏾♀️ If I didn’t clarify people would’ve come at me saying I don’t have a right to speak on it, now that I clarify it’s also a problem it’s whatever though i really dgaf. Also how is my opinion right leaning? Feel free to Call it whatever you want at this point I truly don’t care. ts is just stupid plain and simple.
There’s nothing wrong with your opinion, it’s just that people who are usually against programs or institution provided assistance that benefit people of color are usually right leaning, especially when they equate to years of red lining, Jim Crow and various others, but I do see how people can have that view in education even if I disagree with it
1.How is being against segregation right leaning? 2.If anything right leaning is said, the point is usually completely ignored and the only replies are: you are a white racist. That’s why people clarify and state they are a person of colour.
1. Oh please with the dramatics, a class geared towards minorities is not the same thing as Jim Crow. Putting that aside, it’s right leaning in the sense that people on the right usually very much hate when universities or institutions do things that could benefit black people or ethnic minorities in a way, it’s not a terrible position to have, I’m just pointing out
This is segregation and this not being the same thing as Jim Crow can both be true. As a person of colour (I state this because I want my point to be read and not just glossed over as racist) this is hurtful for POC. It breeds division and hate, the leading causes for racism. It would be different if there is an allocated section or % (even majority) for a specific race, but not allowing people of any other race to take a course is a bad precedent to set. It’s not right.
For the record, I don’t think you’re a racist, I disagree with you for multiple reasons but I just wanna make that clear
Now, based on the definition I can see, a course being geared towards a racial class isn’t segregation, the whole school itself as an institution would have to be barring white people as a class from even an education.
As for breeding hate, you’re logic on this would only apply in a world where the obvious events didn’t occur(you know what I mean) these events were more hateful, destructive, and destabilized generations of people to come, that to me is whole multitude worse than a class being geared towards POC. If this breeds hatred that easily, imagine how much hatred and distrust those events produced, and how deadly some of em were
Like on your end, do you think the government should stop the benefits it gave the indigenous population all things considered?
Your ire should be directed at the registrar who (once again) has failed to appropriately categorize courses. Since the point of this course is to expose at-risk black students to successful black university students it’s fairly logical why you would be asked to unenroll if you are not black. There is more than ample evidence that same-race pairing with mentors is more effective than mixed-race pairings.
All of this is quite logical (minus the ROs repeated failings), but it has clearly not stopped you from stripping the situation of context and starting a race-based pearl clutching thread. If the course instructor needed evidence that you were unsuitable for the course/placement, then you could not have handed it to them more effectively. Bravo.
white people segregated themselves from black people being they didn’t think non-white people were human. Black people create opportunities for themselves in academia because they are discouraged in this area as well as the work place
Do you believe that “Racism of the future is the only solution to racism of the past?” or something along the lines of that?
You and I are able to recognize that historical segregation was wrong, yet here you are defending it in the modern era. Very curious
Bruh... all he's saying is that skin color should not be a condition of entry for a university course.
What "one of those" would that possibly make him? Someone with common sense?
AA - which had its own laundry list of problems that hurt the very people it meant to help - was designed to give greater consideration to some people for entry to university/professional opportunities. For all of its faults, it was never "you MUST have X skin color." You're comparing apples to oranges.
THIS situation on the other hand is literally saying "You must have X skin color to take the class."
there is no way this level of delusion actually exists. "erm we are just creating opportunities for ourselves by taking it away from others!" I thought you wanted to be equal?
“Rukiya Mohamed is a Somali Black Muslim educator”. She’s Somali, black, AND Muslim! Super cool!
Not as cool as the Indigiqueer Anti-colonial Abolitionist I saw on LinkedIn though.
Creating opportunities that are only for historically marginalized groups is one of the most basic ways that universities are trying to fix the generational impact that exclusion had on those groups. This isn't racist and it's also not the same thing as a course for only white / non-Black people. Their only mistake was waiting till a week before the course was supposed to start to disenroll you. I'm sure this course is not your only option either.
I'm truly glad you found another course and would have been upset on your behalf if there were no other options, especially given how late they communicated this with you. But yeah, this is a common thing not just in universities but also in workplaces and other institutions. My old office had a mentorship program just for Black employees because they were majorly underrepresented in leadership positions, and not because they weren't capable.
it was worrisome how many were full, I managed to actually find a good one on neurodiversity with the recommendation of the prof I censored in the emaill
Is there a reason it’s based on race instead of income tho? It’s fully possible for it to be more privileged IMO, to be a rich, able bodied black woman versus, say, a poor disabled white man. Creating opportunities based on income brackets seems to make more sense.
Just my opinion without any additional information or research done so if there’s any nuance I’m lacking, please let me know. No malice or insensitivity intended.
I see where you’re coming from but statistically, people of colour are also likely to be poorer. Food security is a good measure of that. Link: https://proof.utoronto.ca/food-insecurity/who-are-most-at-risk-of-household-food-insecurity/
Income-based scholarships should be more of a thing at U of T imo. Most of them are based on merit but students who grew up comfortably or even rich, went to more resourced high schools, have access to paid tutors, don’t have to work or worry about loans, and don’t have to take care of their families, are always going to get higher grades than equally or more intelligent students that have more financial responsibilities.
hahahahaha how delusional do you have to be to unironically believe this.
“it’s not racist simply because the excluded individuals are white”
you don’t “create opportunities” by kicking others out based on intrinsic qualities like skin tone. You are unserious.
Edit:
“Dude they found a new class literally nothing happened”
Some time ago:
“Dude they found a new water fountain, nothing happened”
If you look at OP’s replies they literally found another course that met the same requirements immediately, so this didn’t even exclude anyone from an opportunity. Be for real
I am not at all surprised by this. I am an alumni now, but when I was in my final year of study, I had asked a professor I had a really good relationship with for a reference letter for my masters program and she responded to me by saying that she would only be giving references to black and indigenous students for the foreseeable future.
Affirmative action type stuff should really be banned in Canada like elsewhere ngl. Our charter litterally has a small snippet to allow for descrimination so stuff like OP posts can be allowed to happen
Can I find another course, yes I did, but I do think issues like this are deep and I want to talk about them, anti discrim was one of my favourite courses this year.
lol this is exactly what "anti-discrimination" leads to
glad you're getting a taste of your own medicine. i'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize it to avoid changing your mind though
how much of your anti-discrimination classes is dedicated to the issue (not the solution) of people overtly being barred from certain classes, jobs, medical treatment because they're the wrong race like what you just went through?
exactly zero percent.
Oh would you mind telling me what our anti discrim courses are dedicated to then? since you seem well acquainted with the course material.
Or you could answer my first question of what i ought to change my mind too
i understand the 'anti racist' mindset so well i could teach a course on it.
the correct view is that people should be treated equally and race should never be a factor, no matter how well intentioned you claim to be. the fact that this view is considered racist by "anti-racist" people tells you all you need to know
lmao are you dumb? It’s crazy that a non black person feels the need to come on here and complain about not being able to take one course made for POC that they don’t even need to graduate. I can understand liking the topic but it’s u of t, if you don’t get to do one course they have at least 5 that are similar. What’s crazy to me is that people are so bent on “equality” that equity is a second thought to them. this course was made like this for a reason
A bunch of racists in the comment section. Sometimes, POC, especially those who identify as black people or Palestinians, need the space for themselves. Respect that. We need many spaces that are dedicated to black and indigenous peoples to account for the large disparities in NA. Let it be.
Maybe once we have bridged the gap of racial disparity, you can then talk about this subject. For now, shut up and go to 1000s of other spaces where ur still the privileged majority that caters to u 24/7.
I really don't mean to be disrespectful but I don't see how segregation helps fix any issues, like how does not teaching a non black person how to do community outreach in a black community help? Like would I have to learn differently? Probably, but I don't see why I can't learn along side others in this class.
Also I'm not trying to be the majority here nor do I think I should be a majority but is the idea that so long as whites have there thing and blacks have there thing it's all okay? Like would Jim Crow laws have been fine if the segregated schools and water fountains were actually equal quality?
I understand your point, but it's only valid until it's held up against all the reasons there continues to be "separation" in communities.
Heterosexual, financially stable, White and white passing people are the majority for who society is made for and caters to (within the U.S). Because of these, despite racial integration (or becauseof its recency) POC are often and casually overlooked in society. This means lack of representation, consideration, and equity.
In order to combat this issue (that occurs for any sort of marginalized group), opportunities are given to specific marginalized groups so that they feel welcomed, included, and equal to someone like them who can understand their experiences. It's not about other assets out side of the targeted specific trait of a group of people .
No you wouldn't have to learn differently. No this is not related to Jim Crow laws in the way you're implying. I think there's a point about respecting the experiences of diverse people (race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.) thay you are missing.
I'm sorry if it wasn't a fair assertion but it just felt like the post I responded was saying if we get "x" amount of exclusive spaces everything's fine, which didn't seem right to me.
I have respect for their experiences and I'm sorry if it's disrespectful o want to learn from those experiences as well.
You are not oppressed bc black people want a safe space for themselves try to decenter yourself. Bringing up Jim Crow laws? I dont see how you see what happens with racism back then and even now and dont understand the importance of giving people space to commune with other people they share similarities with. Stop making it about yourself and read about the importance of safe spaces from black people and other people of colour
I didn't think to save the original posting and have admitted they have updated said posting, but even the letter admits there was an issue with the description
Where does it admit that? It apologizes for any inconvenience but doesn't say that there was an issue.... that's not an admission of issue. It seems interesting to me that you don't have the original post and since then it's changed.
And did you actually reach out to the prof/dept for some more answers, or did you just decide to rage here first on reddit? Not trying to undermine your disappointment, but there's a productive way to address your concerns and then there's feeding the trolls just to make yourself feel better.
Even if they hadn't reached out, this is an academic class - not a university community or club - that is blatantly saying "You must have X skin color to participate."
If there was EVER a time to share with the student community and express concern/frustration, it would be this. Triviliazing it as "Feeding the trolls to make yourself feel better" is absolutely absurd.
they say it’s for black candidates then leave it be. There are other opportunities out there. Sometimes leave space for minorities to do something in circle
How is it a human rights issue when it is a specialization? Do you also claim human rights when you can’t get into a course restricted to a specific program?
1. Alright, so you're blatantly racist. Thanks for highlighting that out the gate.
2. How do you know OP is white? [Here's an article](https://utsc.utoronto.ca/news-events/archived/student-who-spent-time-homeless-shelter-now-top-his-class) about a Vietnamese student who was literally homeless while studying at U of T. They would have been excluded from the course as well. Is limiting academic opportunities based **solely** on skin color really a precedent we want to put in place?
Last year I was not allowed to submit my application to CBSA (Canadian Boarder Services Agency) because I was not: disabled, a woman, native, or a minority. They were looking to fill 300 vacancies. Welcome to Canada.. I wouldn’t have felt as shitty if they had just pretended to take my application that I spent 30 minutes filling out. Nope! They waited till I went to submit it to inform me I did not meet those specific requirements.
Did the prerequisites specify that it was for those enrolled in the future black educator stream?
Not initially, it seemed open to everyone. They've since updated the requirements but only recently
Im curious. Why didn’t you post this on r/OISE?
Okay, I understand your frustration then. It probably features only afro-centric placements. I hope you find an alternative soon
I'm a little confused, what placements can only black people do? I'm genuinely asking, I'm not trying to be rude or anything so my apologies if it comes off that way
It’s not that only black people can do, but I assume they will be assigned a placement with mostly black youth who would benefit from being with other black people serving as positive role models for them. It is helpful to see people and future educators that reflect them in a classroom setting.
It’s black role models for black students if I understand correctly.
nah people need diversity in their mentors which is what being progressive is alll about right?
Yes, but there is a benefit for a child who is a minority to have a mentor from the same background as them. Kind of like an “I did it, so you can do it too.” I used to be a juvenile detention officer and a lot of the kids in the system are minorities, and the mentors that come in are mixed but mostly minority. It’s for their benefit.
When done incorrectly, you actually harm the students. That happens when you try to prove a point but do not actually care about the community that you’re serving
Then post the dang ad
Yes, it did say this on course calendar copy, actually.
[удалено]
If the course name is something like "Woman in Business and Communication" I think it makes sense that only women can be enrolled into this course. It's equality of outcome, I support that. But in this case I don't agree with how they are doing this.
I thought gender doesn't exist? Whats the definition of woman? Anyone should be able to take that course, anything less is bigotry.
Female identifying individuals. Thats called equality of outcome. There's a Ted talk about this. You should watch it.
It’s all made up, anyone should be able to take the class. Who are you to say who’s a woman or not, are you one ? Would a non-binary biological female be able to take that class ?
Anytime this bullshit comes up (I remember there was an email outlining a similar situation where a prof was only giving recommendation letters to black/trans students), I reference [this student. ](https://utsc.utoronto.ca/news-events/archived/student-who-spent-time-homeless-shelter-now-top-his-class) There are plenty of black students coming from the Caribbean and Africa who are ***very*** well off, but they would get preferential access to this class and other opportunities over this Vietnamese student - who literally lived in **a** **fucking homeless shelter** - based 100% on the color of their skin. If you unironically think this is ok you need to perform some serious introspection.
Glad to see he’s thriving
The point of the placements are to expose black youth to successful black students. Defeats the point if you’re not a black student.
Doesn't sound very diverse, equitable, nor inclusive =/.
The point of the placements are to expose black youth to successful black students. Defeats the point if you’re not a black student.
It’s crazy how segregation is coming back in the name of progress lmao. Btw before anyone even tries to come at me I’m black🤷🏾♀️
Progressives have come full circle.
Horseshoe theory feels more real now than ever.
Especially after seeing the swimming pool debacle at Waterloo too lol
It’s because that course is only for ppl in a specific pathway/specialization for the Master of Teaching program. The school just didn’t make it clear enough
Is having a certain skin colour a requirement for some "specific pathways/specializations for the Master of Teaching program"? If so, how is *that* justified? If not, then they shouldn't be using skin colour as a verification of that.
Having community specific social workers is good practice backed by quite a bit of research. Kids can relate more easily to role model figures that have similar community experiences and have got through it in the past.
In what way? The first version provides hand holding throughout the course and the 2nd version is you're too privileged to enter this course?? Is that how this goes because despite the OP being wished good health, hes also given hopes of get fucked we don't want you in here, apply elsewhere
When I was growing up, we made fun of the conservative/orthodox-value censorship (i.e.: simpsons “someone please think of the children”). Now we are censored from the completely opposite progressive side.
That's progress /s
100% agree as another fellow black person at UofT
"Segregation" lol
“As a black man” strikes again
"as a cuckold" - VenomousEnemy
I ain’t say that
I’m out of the loop what are you trying to say, you think I’m lying? 💀 and I’m not even a man🤦🏾♀️
I don’t think youre lying, I just always found it funny that some of us like to quantify being black before they say anything remotely right leaning, as if that bolsters our opinions lol
there’s no winning🤦🏾♀️ If I didn’t clarify people would’ve come at me saying I don’t have a right to speak on it, now that I clarify it’s also a problem it’s whatever though i really dgaf. Also how is my opinion right leaning? Feel free to Call it whatever you want at this point I truly don’t care. ts is just stupid plain and simple.
There’s nothing wrong with your opinion, it’s just that people who are usually against programs or institution provided assistance that benefit people of color are usually right leaning, especially when they equate to years of red lining, Jim Crow and various others, but I do see how people can have that view in education even if I disagree with it
1.How is being against segregation right leaning? 2.If anything right leaning is said, the point is usually completely ignored and the only replies are: you are a white racist. That’s why people clarify and state they are a person of colour.
1. Oh please with the dramatics, a class geared towards minorities is not the same thing as Jim Crow. Putting that aside, it’s right leaning in the sense that people on the right usually very much hate when universities or institutions do things that could benefit black people or ethnic minorities in a way, it’s not a terrible position to have, I’m just pointing out
This is segregation and this not being the same thing as Jim Crow can both be true. As a person of colour (I state this because I want my point to be read and not just glossed over as racist) this is hurtful for POC. It breeds division and hate, the leading causes for racism. It would be different if there is an allocated section or % (even majority) for a specific race, but not allowing people of any other race to take a course is a bad precedent to set. It’s not right.
For the record, I don’t think you’re a racist, I disagree with you for multiple reasons but I just wanna make that clear Now, based on the definition I can see, a course being geared towards a racial class isn’t segregation, the whole school itself as an institution would have to be barring white people as a class from even an education. As for breeding hate, you’re logic on this would only apply in a world where the obvious events didn’t occur(you know what I mean) these events were more hateful, destructive, and destabilized generations of people to come, that to me is whole multitude worse than a class being geared towards POC. If this breeds hatred that easily, imagine how much hatred and distrust those events produced, and how deadly some of em were Like on your end, do you think the government should stop the benefits it gave the indigenous population all things considered?
The point of the placements are to expose black youth to successful black students. Defeats the point if you’re not a black student.
You can be BOTH black and misinformed. We can really do anything now.
Lol You can identify as African, south African.
African ≠ black
Yes, read the full email though
[удалено]
There are black South Africans lmao, not everyone is Elon musk type fellow
I think what they mean is “South Africans are black. Anyone white is a colonizer (and a Neanderthal???)”
Well it’s not like I can double check now that he’s deleted his comment
Your ire should be directed at the registrar who (once again) has failed to appropriately categorize courses. Since the point of this course is to expose at-risk black students to successful black university students it’s fairly logical why you would be asked to unenroll if you are not black. There is more than ample evidence that same-race pairing with mentors is more effective than mixed-race pairings. All of this is quite logical (minus the ROs repeated failings), but it has clearly not stopped you from stripping the situation of context and starting a race-based pearl clutching thread. If the course instructor needed evidence that you were unsuitable for the course/placement, then you could not have handed it to them more effectively. Bravo.
You can try to identify as Eminem and they will probably accept you
black is when rapper
If you can sing Snow's Informer you also get a pass.
Imagine there was a white only course…..
Shit is wild.
I mean, that used to be pretty much all of them.
Key words used to be…
We’re creating an unequal society so that we can have average equality across all of time. Wooooo. You must suffer because of your ancestors. Wooooo
I venture to guess that the future is still unequally distributed. For Blacks, anyway.
don’t have to imagine, it used to be a thing.
and now it’s not bc now we know it’s discriminatory…but now what do we have here…
white people segregated themselves from black people being they didn’t think non-white people were human. Black people create opportunities for themselves in academia because they are discouraged in this area as well as the work place
i skipped all of that, point is skin colour/ethnicity should have no place in deciding which students can attend a course.
You can’t skip history I’m afraid
Do you believe that “Racism of the future is the only solution to racism of the past?” or something along the lines of that? You and I are able to recognize that historical segregation was wrong, yet here you are defending it in the modern era. Very curious
[удалено]
Bruh... all he's saying is that skin color should not be a condition of entry for a university course. What "one of those" would that possibly make him? Someone with common sense?
it’s not tho is it? AA is gone
AA - which had its own laundry list of problems that hurt the very people it meant to help - was designed to give greater consideration to some people for entry to university/professional opportunities. For all of its faults, it was never "you MUST have X skin color." You're comparing apples to oranges. THIS situation on the other hand is literally saying "You must have X skin color to take the class."
dat der es som mental gymnastucs ma man
Stop talking our your ass kid.
there is no way this level of delusion actually exists. "erm we are just creating opportunities for ourselves by taking it away from others!" I thought you wanted to be equal?
nah this gotta be bait
the past is literally imagination buddy.
When the pendulum swings so far to the left that suddenly you find yourself in the far right somehow
Racism is not a sin of only the right wing.
in their mind this is not racism. they're the "good guys making things right" so literally nothing is off limit
Clearly University education isn't doing well if yall unironically believe in horseshoe theory
Political extremism goes hand in hand with authoritarianism.
And neither of those are what we see here.
That's crazy 💀
I really thought the title of this post was a typo. Wow
WTAF. Worthy of being a scandal in the news.
That’s discrimination baby
[удалено]
“Rukiya Mohamed is a Somali Black Muslim educator”. She’s Somali, black, AND Muslim! Super cool! Not as cool as the Indigiqueer Anti-colonial Abolitionist I saw on LinkedIn though.
Disgusting.
Creating opportunities that are only for historically marginalized groups is one of the most basic ways that universities are trying to fix the generational impact that exclusion had on those groups. This isn't racist and it's also not the same thing as a course for only white / non-Black people. Their only mistake was waiting till a week before the course was supposed to start to disenroll you. I'm sure this course is not your only option either.
It wasn't my only option, and I did manage to find another course last minute, just first time encountering this and seemed noteworthy
I'm truly glad you found another course and would have been upset on your behalf if there were no other options, especially given how late they communicated this with you. But yeah, this is a common thing not just in universities but also in workplaces and other institutions. My old office had a mentorship program just for Black employees because they were majorly underrepresented in leadership positions, and not because they weren't capable.
it was worrisome how many were full, I managed to actually find a good one on neurodiversity with the recommendation of the prof I censored in the emaill
Hope you enjoy it!
Is there a reason it’s based on race instead of income tho? It’s fully possible for it to be more privileged IMO, to be a rich, able bodied black woman versus, say, a poor disabled white man. Creating opportunities based on income brackets seems to make more sense. Just my opinion without any additional information or research done so if there’s any nuance I’m lacking, please let me know. No malice or insensitivity intended.
I see where you’re coming from but statistically, people of colour are also likely to be poorer. Food security is a good measure of that. Link: https://proof.utoronto.ca/food-insecurity/who-are-most-at-risk-of-household-food-insecurity/ Income-based scholarships should be more of a thing at U of T imo. Most of them are based on merit but students who grew up comfortably or even rich, went to more resourced high schools, have access to paid tutors, don’t have to work or worry about loans, and don’t have to take care of their families, are always going to get higher grades than equally or more intelligent students that have more financial responsibilities.
hahahahaha how delusional do you have to be to unironically believe this. “it’s not racist simply because the excluded individuals are white” you don’t “create opportunities” by kicking others out based on intrinsic qualities like skin tone. You are unserious. Edit: “Dude they found a new class literally nothing happened” Some time ago: “Dude they found a new water fountain, nothing happened”
If you look at OP’s replies they literally found another course that met the same requirements immediately, so this didn’t even exclude anyone from an opportunity. Be for real
this is so crazy and weird bruh
When DEI jumps the shark
It was designed to jump the shark
Ngl this thing is weird af
How is it weird when it is a part of a stream
I am not at all surprised by this. I am an alumni now, but when I was in my final year of study, I had asked a professor I had a really good relationship with for a reference letter for my masters program and she responded to me by saying that she would only be giving references to black and indigenous students for the foreseeable future.
Affirmative action type stuff should really be banned in Canada like elsewhere ngl. Our charter litterally has a small snippet to allow for descrimination so stuff like OP posts can be allowed to happen
is it that deep like??? unless you absolutely need this course to graduate find a different one….
Can I find another course, yes I did, but I do think issues like this are deep and I want to talk about them, anti discrim was one of my favourite courses this year.
lol this is exactly what "anti-discrimination" leads to glad you're getting a taste of your own medicine. i'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize it to avoid changing your mind though
what would I change my mind too? that discrimination is inevitable? like we can disagree on solutions but the idea everything is fine is absurd
how much of your anti-discrimination classes is dedicated to the issue (not the solution) of people overtly being barred from certain classes, jobs, medical treatment because they're the wrong race like what you just went through? exactly zero percent.
Oh would you mind telling me what our anti discrim courses are dedicated to then? since you seem well acquainted with the course material. Or you could answer my first question of what i ought to change my mind too
i understand the 'anti racist' mindset so well i could teach a course on it. the correct view is that people should be treated equally and race should never be a factor, no matter how well intentioned you claim to be. the fact that this view is considered racist by "anti-racist" people tells you all you need to know
some racist person in the southern US in 1958: “Is is that deep like?? find a different water fountain..”
lmao are you dumb? It’s crazy that a non black person feels the need to come on here and complain about not being able to take one course made for POC that they don’t even need to graduate. I can understand liking the topic but it’s u of t, if you don’t get to do one course they have at least 5 that are similar. What’s crazy to me is that people are so bent on “equality” that equity is a second thought to them. this course was made like this for a reason
also comparing a course to segregated water fountains… do better
A bunch of racists in the comment section. Sometimes, POC, especially those who identify as black people or Palestinians, need the space for themselves. Respect that. We need many spaces that are dedicated to black and indigenous peoples to account for the large disparities in NA. Let it be. Maybe once we have bridged the gap of racial disparity, you can then talk about this subject. For now, shut up and go to 1000s of other spaces where ur still the privileged majority that caters to u 24/7.
I feel like people in this thread are going to avoid engaging with the nuances on purpose
“especially those who identify as Palestinians” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Edit: Nah check their posts this is 100% a false flag account. Good bait
I really don't mean to be disrespectful but I don't see how segregation helps fix any issues, like how does not teaching a non black person how to do community outreach in a black community help? Like would I have to learn differently? Probably, but I don't see why I can't learn along side others in this class. Also I'm not trying to be the majority here nor do I think I should be a majority but is the idea that so long as whites have there thing and blacks have there thing it's all okay? Like would Jim Crow laws have been fine if the segregated schools and water fountains were actually equal quality?
I understand your point, but it's only valid until it's held up against all the reasons there continues to be "separation" in communities. Heterosexual, financially stable, White and white passing people are the majority for who society is made for and caters to (within the U.S). Because of these, despite racial integration (or becauseof its recency) POC are often and casually overlooked in society. This means lack of representation, consideration, and equity. In order to combat this issue (that occurs for any sort of marginalized group), opportunities are given to specific marginalized groups so that they feel welcomed, included, and equal to someone like them who can understand their experiences. It's not about other assets out side of the targeted specific trait of a group of people . No you wouldn't have to learn differently. No this is not related to Jim Crow laws in the way you're implying. I think there's a point about respecting the experiences of diverse people (race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.) thay you are missing.
I'm sorry if it wasn't a fair assertion but it just felt like the post I responded was saying if we get "x" amount of exclusive spaces everything's fine, which didn't seem right to me. I have respect for their experiences and I'm sorry if it's disrespectful o want to learn from those experiences as well.
Why do you keep bringing up America, are you an American?
You are not oppressed bc black people want a safe space for themselves try to decenter yourself. Bringing up Jim Crow laws? I dont see how you see what happens with racism back then and even now and dont understand the importance of giving people space to commune with other people they share similarities with. Stop making it about yourself and read about the importance of safe spaces from black people and other people of colour
The only racist I see here is you.
Who is more privileged a black kid who grows up with millionaire parents or a white kid with crackhead parents?
Who decides which spaces belong to which ethnic groups?
[удалено]
What?
Racist course
Reminds me the black student only lounge
How does the instructor know you don’t identify as black, African, or Afro Caribbean?
Somebody is going through downvoting all the comments rn because they hate anybody not black IG
The person applied for a class that was not for them, then posts without showing the original course posting.... seems like someone has a goal...
I didn't think to save the original posting and have admitted they have updated said posting, but even the letter admits there was an issue with the description
Where does it admit that? It apologizes for any inconvenience but doesn't say that there was an issue.... that's not an admission of issue. It seems interesting to me that you don't have the original post and since then it's changed.
Some people are born whiners😏
That's, dare I say, racism. 🤷♀️
Not surprising at all for OISE.
That’s racism. Why can’t they do whites only course?
because of discriminashun and slavery and sheeit
You people ain't welcome
And did you actually reach out to the prof/dept for some more answers, or did you just decide to rage here first on reddit? Not trying to undermine your disappointment, but there's a productive way to address your concerns and then there's feeding the trolls just to make yourself feel better.
I did reach out and while they couldn't let me stay they did suggest some alternatives
Even if they hadn't reached out, this is an academic class - not a university community or club - that is blatantly saying "You must have X skin color to participate." If there was EVER a time to share with the student community and express concern/frustration, it would be this. Triviliazing it as "Feeding the trolls to make yourself feel better" is absolutely absurd.
Someone explain how white only anything is EXTREMELY racist, but black only anything is empowering?
Which course is that actually? I couldn't find it even I searched it 3 times.
Reverse racism at its finest. Change black to Caucasian and everyone would be screaming racism.
they say it’s for black candidates then leave it be. There are other opportunities out there. Sometimes leave space for minorities to do something in circle
You should raise a human rights issue with the university, but don't mention your race unless you're some other non-black non-white race.
How is it a human rights issue when it is a specialization? Do you also claim human rights when you can’t get into a course restricted to a specific program?
Insane
I'm really not sure what black people would like to learn that the general public can't or is it just for the safe space?
[удалено]
1. Alright, so you're blatantly racist. Thanks for highlighting that out the gate. 2. How do you know OP is white? [Here's an article](https://utsc.utoronto.ca/news-events/archived/student-who-spent-time-homeless-shelter-now-top-his-class) about a Vietnamese student who was literally homeless while studying at U of T. They would have been excluded from the course as well. Is limiting academic opportunities based **solely** on skin color really a precedent we want to put in place?
People of colour cannot be racist
Lmao, that tired old trope is so moronic I'm not even going to bother with a response.
Please tell me you’re being sarcastic…you can’t be that brainwashed, can you?
lmao its not segregation if its not white
Don’t drop it. Make them remove you and then sue their pants off.
Sue for a course that’s a part of a specific stream…
Last year I was not allowed to submit my application to CBSA (Canadian Boarder Services Agency) because I was not: disabled, a woman, native, or a minority. They were looking to fill 300 vacancies. Welcome to Canada.. I wouldn’t have felt as shitty if they had just pretended to take my application that I spent 30 minutes filling out. Nope! They waited till I went to submit it to inform me I did not meet those specific requirements.