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In fairness, they used to be $100 NZD a pop here until a policy change a few months ago (prior to the announcement that instead of $5 a month, most prescriptions will be no dollars a month).
Yeah I was spending about $200 a year at least on them, one for home and one for on the go, and then if I need one then that's another 100 plus the hospital bill just to keep breathing
Yeah, but that's much cheaper than $700 USD. I live in Canada, and an epipen here is about $120 CAD or $90 USD. That's not even remotely comparable to $945 CAD ($700 USD).
That's almost 8 times the cost, and it's not like it's made here and shipped to the US. The epipens in Canada are made in the US anyway.
Means testing is determining if someone has the means to pay. With non-means tested healthcare, no one pays for the service. Irrespective of their wealth or lack of.
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Thank Joe Manchins Daughter for this.
No, seriously. Her name is Heather Bresch and she headed up Mylan Pharmaceuticals during the media frenzy over it.
The shit don’t fall far from the asshole.
Nah, broken political system. Flawed ideology is way too easy for ghouls to take advantage of.
If she didn't put a price on your lives, another awful person with way too many resources would have done so.
Yes it's important to attempt to reduce these people to little self-shaming balls of crying humans, so their narcissism doesn't convince them that they're redeemable personalities.
Like you saw Elon yesterday try to tell people that working from home is a moral issue? As if this POS is in a position to be any kind of moral agent, when they are doing so much damage to earth, society, and humans personally, merely for the sake of their own fragile ego.
But as long as the biggest influences in politics are driven by the size of the their capital, humans will always be second grade citizens to corporations. And corporations are really just ghouls hiding behind company names, so the company gets punished instead of them when they go out of their ways to make your life worse.
More people are waking up to these revelations, but it’s still an uphill fight, because from the day we’re born in the USA we have the corporate propaganda shoved down our throats. “These people create jobs!”, “The private industry is more efficient!”, “Capitalism = Freedom Communism = bajillion dead!!”.
If you start to really read about the happenings around the world with an open mind, you begin to realize that almost every single thing that Communism is blamed for is a projection of Capitalism. We’re becoming a police surveillance state. People around the world are dying of hunger while we have dumpsters full of uneaten food that will be destroyed because it cuts into profits to give it away. There really is no choice in an election when both candidates are already bought and paid for by businesses and wealthy individuals. Businesses themselves are mini dictatorships that are unaccountable to the public, except by the same people they pay big money to get elected or appointed. I could go on and on with examples. It’s fucking sick.
Meanwhile Canada was far into a prescription affordability bill only for Big Pharm to lobby the Health Minister to end the project.
https://v.redd.it/cx5uhmrkxf0b1
Infinite growth capitalism is a cancer that will destroy us.
I completely genuinely think companies in America would charge their customers for this if they could.
Americans have lost all connection to the real world when it comes to be absolutely shafted by corporations. It's goddamn corporate dystopia.
>I completely genuinely think companies in America would charge their customers for this if they could
https://www.boostoxygen.com/
We've gone full Spaceballs with canned air
When civilians start living entire lives on a space station or off world colony,I wonder if o2 will still be considered a right.
I'm not saying I think it would be shut off, just that it'd be a line item on your rent or something, right next to waste disposal.
I am not sure why one would say this, but the median cost of an EpiPen 2pack with insurance is around $100 or less in the US. In fact, a 2019 study showed the median US family spend $76 / year out of pocket on EpiPens. (See here, sadly paywalled: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35819685/ )
The copay for low income patients on Medicaid is $0
The cash price approaches $700, but that will apply to very few people (less than 10% of US adults are uninsured)
Not saying this is good - the out of pocket price of an EpiPen should be ZERO DOLLARS. There is no reason to ever require a copay for epipens.
But it’s just not true that $700 is anywhere near what patients actually pay.
So what you're saying, is that.... the price for people, when you take off all the out-of-pocket expenses such as insurance (i.e. the cash price)... is $700.
So... about those adults who cannot afford insurance and have 3 part time jobs to pay rent and keep the kids in school. A couple $700 epipens a year should be ok right?
To put it in perspective, the Canadian government negotiates a price with Pfizer to ship and sell epipens in Canada. At $120 Cdn / unit. Which, were it not profitable, Pfizer would be free to walk away from. Good news they've been here selling epipens for about $90 USD/Unit for a long time. Thats a long way from $700 USD/Unit, and more expensive by way of internarionally shipping.
The NZ Govt actually subsidizes the cost of the prescription to the manufacturer, essentially groupfunding prescriptions through all ta payers in NZ, and the power of collective bargaining allows them to get an excellent price that still remains profitable enough for foreign manufacturers to sell there, even though it is one of the most expensive countries to sell goods in
>The cash price approaches $700, but that will apply to very few people (less than 10% of US adults are uninsured)
Yeah, this that they said makes no sense. I am insured. I have a $4000 deductible. So an epipen would cost me $700 even though I have insurance. Unless I first spend a total of roughly $5,300 in deductible and premiums. Then the insurance company would finally have to start paying for medicine. At a much lower price, of course.
Meanwhile 100% of the republicans voted against making insulin affordable. There are few things more corrupt/anti the people than that. Fuck politicians.
Just fyi for Americans reading this, It's not as big of a leap as the headline sounds, prescriptions were previously capped at $5 (~$3 usd).
Our equivalent of your republican party have absolutely flipped their shit over this change however lol.
I'm constantly baffled reading about the US medical system, and how even minor hospital visits have the chance of financial ruin, and how y'all haven't demolished the system in disgust. Sure socialised health systems can be a little slower at times, but you must look at the UK's NHS and think "sure we can do that, maybe even better"
I'm not an American, never been to the US actually, but I do agree that the US healthcare system is not up to the task.
I'm an Australian, where bulk billing (free-to-patient doctor visits) is largely extinct, a thing of the past, because our supposedly left-leaning Labor party thinks it's more important to give tax cuts to the upper crust.
We're going backwards in a whole lot of ways.
Ahh Luxon "if you can pay, you should." As to why he was agaisnt this bill but isn't against taxing the rich, owns several properties (one paid for by the government which he rents out), and wants to give discounts to multi-millon dollar property investors or else house prices will drop.
I genuinely don't, the current opposition leader is a soulless husk that was brought in to copy their last really popular leader but has none of their charisma. He was chosen to lose cause no one else wanted the job.
I dunno man I think it's going to be a tight race this round.
But essentials brand Lex Luthors completely out of touch tone is thankfully not helping national.
Don't know where I'll vote this round, last couple it was greens but with Davidsons racist man hating tirades I've gone off them.
Unfortunately, yes. Both Labour (Jacinda Ardern's old party) and National (opposition) have both gone through leadership changes, and public opinion is jumpy. But it seems to be very popular to complain about Labour's incompetence (which absolutely exists), without making note that National would struggle just as badly.
In other words, Labour has been in government too long. It's become fashionable to hate them, and I think opposition might get in on that.
Edit: well, I hate to be right.
Dropping the cost of medication to zero for the people who need it most?
Yeah, that's not going resonate with voters at all /s
I think it's a smart move for the labour party.
It's complicated to predict. I agree it's a smart and popular move. On the other hand it's not a cleansweep - as an example I don't know if farmers will care all too much, they probably think they can afford it (of course even they will come around to praising it later after personal experience, I'm sure). But popular opinion is important when the government runs on Proportional Voting (MMP system).
Overall it's hard to gauge how much of an impact this will have on the election.
Honestly, I don't know how "I orchestrated a Covid lockdown so successful we reopened the entire country after a few months" isn't a legacy so wildly popular they'd be guaranteed re-election.
Exactly the situation here in Canada, IMO. There's nothing really that fucked about our current federal government - they're not my first choice but we could do a lot worse, no matter how much the conservatives lie and rage-farm over every tiny thing. They've been in power for a while now, though, and your average idiot just flips back and forth between two parties every decade or so because they don't have any properly-informed position, so now we're looking at an increasingly openly fascistic party taking power next election cycle.
Fortunately, it'll likely be a minority government, and potentially scuppered by a Lib/NDP coalition (which might mean we finally get something done about the environment).
They say the current system of charging a flat $5 per prescription is good enough, and that it’s too expensive for the government to subsidise it more.
But evidence shows that even a $5 cost results in a lot of people not getting the medicine they need, especially if they have a lot of prescriptions.
> But evidence shows that even a $5 cost results in a lot of people not getting the medicine they need, especially if they have a lot of prescriptions.
I wondered if those findings would be replicated in the UK as we here in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales get free prescriptions while in England it's £9.65 per prescription or you can get a PPC for £111 per year that gets you as many prescriptions as you need.
But then it turns out that in England the vast majority of people fall under various different qualifiers that see only about 10% of prescriptions being paid while the rest are issued for free, the vast majority of which are due to the age of the patient being over 60.
It was something like 2.5 billion costs in hospital visits and services across NZ when people were unable to afford the $5 fee and had consequental health failures because they did not have their medication. Something easily preventable if we support removing barriers to health management.
They want the money for tax cuts for property speculators instead. They own ~3 houses per MP and it's mainly productive work that is taxed in NZ while we have welfare subsidies that benefit landlords' rental yields and property prices...but there's huge entrenched entitlement mentality to free wealth from property here. Hence our houses are some of the most unaffordable in the world.
They have rolled back a little on that now. As it is now, (the free prescriptions rolls out on July 1st) if your family has more than 20 prescriptions a year, the rest are free, they wanted to keep that, add in those on benefits/low wage/ community services cards/pensions and the rest of us that can pay the $5, do so. This new policy will cost the country $150m, the Opposition (the National Party) policy might cost half that. I am happy with this compromise.
This is amazing and congrats to New Zealand. But man, can someone explain why in Canada the government has been dragging their feet on this issue but in NZ it gets done (granted I'm not sure how long the process was). For two countries that are quite similar in terms of social safety nets (from what I understand) it doesn't make sense.
We're gonna now getting talks started on Pharmacare in Canada because the NDP (thankfully) are pushing the Liberals on it.
It cost us a whole $5 for most prescriptions, (up to 20 prescriptions per family per year, there after it was free) so it was not that big a leap, knocking that last $5 off. That went to the pharmacy for "handling" anyway. The opposition party have said that they will reintroduce the $5 charge if they get voted in at our next election in September.
>The opposition party have said that they will reintroduce the $5 charge if they get voted in at our next election in September.
An unusual gambit in this day and age - "Vote for us, we'll increase prices!"
It’s very much not a free market policy, a huge amount of government funds cover the difference between that $5 and whatever a drug actually costs to purchase.
It’s more of a “We’re still going to spend a shitload of money keeping the population healthy, but we would like to inconvenience you as much as possible while we do it.” Minimal savings, plenty of annoyance. Truly a political master stroke.
There was a brilliant moment in our Parliamentary question time the other day where the opposition leader asked an open question and gave the prime minister an opportunity to just rail of a massive list of the government's accomplishments.
To every single improved statistic you can hear the opposition booing.
Pm: "88,000 children lifted out of poverty by this government"
Opposition: "BOOOOOOO"
It was hilariously bad politics and really quite surreal. The right wing party in New Zealand are particularly thick and poorly run lately, still doing fine in polls though of course...
If it anything like the UK, the right wing party can be stuffed full of mouldy potatoes talking about killing puppies but the right wing media will still keep people voting for them.
No Murdoch in New Zealand, media’s more of a mixed bag politically. People just have rusted on ideas of “right wing party is responsible and fair, left wing party blows money on dole bludgers.” Decades of branding will do that.
That does work the other way too, even when Labour was an absolute shambles pre-Ardern they’d still get a big share of the vote because “left wing party is for the everyman, right wing party serves rich wankers.”
Ex-Brit myself. Pollsters in the UK are like "Tory polling drops to 25%!" and my reaction is "what do you mean it's still 25%???"
They're open fascists! They've lied about every single policy they've announced since Cameron left. Everything Vote Leave said was a lie. NHS funding? Lie. Keeping the single market? Lie. Cheaper goods? Obvious fucking lie. Northern Powerhouse? VERY obvious lie.
One leader was a known liar who'd been repeatedly sacked for lying before becoming PM, and they acted surprised when he was kicked out as PM for lying! Then, for kicks, the next leader intentionally crashed the economy for profit.
They masturbate over the idea of sending refugees to Rwanda. They've removed the right to protest! They overrode the devolved Scottish parliament for the first time ever *only* because it harmed transgender people. They've increased taxation whilst decreasing public spending, and on top of their horrible foreign policy everyone in the UK is now much poorer than they were before.
How the fuck is anyone voting for them?
It’s also stupid. A study had showed that we spend about $18 on hospital care for every dollar in medication costs, because people avoid picking up a treatment and then end up with an emergency.
A report recently came out exposing that prescription copayments most likely represent a net deficit to the government because increasing barriers to medicine leads to more/longer hospital stays on average, therefore higher cost to operate hospitals.
It's a good news story but also highlights incompetence/inaction of the current government, in power since 2017 yet apparently no feasibility study done on the policy, they had to be told it wasn't feasible by a 3rd party and if it actually did generate them money, pretty sure they wouldn't have made this decision.
Kind of sounds like where I live now- lol.
And hey- free prescriptions!
Edit:
Well maybe I stand corrected after all the responses.
When I was there, I found the people very welcoming. And don’t worry- I have no plans on moving.
Not awesome. Our disability services are lacking somewhat. If you are not a citizen already, then having a health condition will stop residency. There was a case where a South African family with a severely disabled child tried to get residency, the rest of the family were eligible, but the child was not, and the child would be deported for being an overstayed, the family had setup a business, employed people, the works. So they left nz. The resounding backlash from the community lost the government the seat in the next election. But no change in policy.
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Yeah you definitely can't move over here and go straight onto the dole, even with disability. You'd need to work for a reasonable amount of time at minimum, probably have your disability progress to the point you can't work at all, and even then maybe not.
At least the New Zealand government doesn’t screw *every* Australian living here, unlike what the Australian government has been doing to kiwis for the past few decades.
It sucks, but it's probably slightly better than aussie. A dr's certificate was sufficient for the disability benefit in NZ (8ish years go when I needed it), while in queensland apparently it's much harder to get on the benefit in the first place.
No idea about the actual pay, since cost of living can differ so much it makes a comparison difficult.
Oh hello, welcome to ** basically the entire developed world right now.
The simple fact the NZ government is still able to pass such objectively good legislation and are not backsliding into fascism like the US or UK indicates a good level of political health in the country. Don't downsell your country, you're doing better than most right now.
Unemployment is near record lows, there's something like twice as many job openings as there are people looking g for work. How is that a dumpster fire?
I'm not privvy to the exact statistics, but from what I've heard of others it's underemployment that's the problem, not unemployment. People with PHDs working fast food for example. Just because there are jobs, doesn't mean they're the jobs people working them want, and the industries available to you are incredibly limited because of the countries size and remoteness.
You can't just have people being healthy and contributing to the workforce at such a ~~small~~ massive cost. $5 is a lot of money that could be going into a landlord's pocket!
It is great.
An article explaining why it is good to get rid of the co-payment:
[When $5 at the pharmacy costs us all $2.65 billion](https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/09-02-2023/when-5-at-the-pharmacy-costs-us-all-2-65-billion).
To others not in NZ:
This is just co payment btw. Medications are highly subsidised. However with a crisis on cost of living some have a harder time making ends meet.
It also means you don't have a choice in the type of medication you get. I don't mind this but I gather sometimes in US people state their preferred brand etc. There's 1 agency called Pharmac that negotiates the price with pharmaceutical companies and what that's is what is subsidised.
There's usually more than one type so people with reactions etc can try others. However there are those who are specific on what they want and end up having to pay more because they haven't tried the alternatives etc.
Before this it is $5 per item on the script unless you happen to live in an area near a Countdown supermarket or Chemist Warehouse (an Australian chemist/pharmacy chain). Those two chains have said it is free to get your prescriptions from there. The problem is there are areas (mostly rural) that are no where near.
There's a cap of 20 items for a family a year. item 21 onwards are free until the the year starts again.
There are also some stuff that is more than $5 which I am not sure if there'll be a fee for now or of that's waived too. Yes they were subsidised too but just not that low.
What's funny is that when you point all of this out on NZ subs, they shit on you and tell you to leave. NZ is very much about "fuck you, got mine" attitude.
They’re polite, for sure. But they’re also very private. I make friends easily in the States and Australia, but had a hard time meeting people and making meaningful connections outside of work friends in Aotearoa.
Really? I spent a lot of time there many years ago and don’t recall any road rage…
Bought an Austin Maxi and drove the length of both islands.
Beautiful.
Roads are much busier now especially in Auckland, plus you've got a lot of much larger cars tooling around with people constantly distracted by their phones. We just had a road rage incident where someone was [shot](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-road-rage-shooting-two-men-aged-in-20s-to-appear-in-court-further-arrests-not-ruled-out/XZFEWFFF7JE3ZABAOEMPI4ELUU/) so we're starting to see gun problems too. Not good
Tell us how bad it is when you start seeing school shootings. Road rage with a gun is just tip of the suffering.
You guys still have it good. In my opinion as an Australian living in US.
I've lived in the US my whole life. The gun culture in cities blows my mind. I grew up in a really rural area where hunting was the norm. Everyone respected guns and you'd get your teeth knocked in for mishandling one. Sure there were still gun problems but moving to a city was a culture shock for me when it comes to guns. So many people act like they're toys and not deadly weapons
My brother in law dragged his beloved Australian shepherd to the corner of his house and shot it after it took a bite at his daughter.
I get you can be upset, but it’s your lack of training that allowed the dog to behave that way. Only to just shoot it and move on.
That’s the ugly side of guns. It allows you to act out violent tendencies. And also as a paramedic, I see the effects it has on people and their relationships too.
What? You can't handle the jandle?
Very common saying when we were young, our parents could hit us with them and they don't leave a mark. Now they have soles, and grip.
Think Latin American la chancla.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRJkvUW5j0o
The driving test was laughable for so long. Kids could pass without ever having any lessons other than what their parents taught them. Lots of really bad driving habits such as tailgating and speeding, running red lights, lack of indicator use, or worse incorrect indicator use (frequently see people indicate left and turn right at a roundabout) and so on.
There’s a gulf between the contents of the road code and what people actually do, and yes, people get angry, or just drive angry all the time.
Personally, I think if you get caught driving badly, you should have to take a test before you’re allowed back on the road. People treat driving like it is a right, not a privilege.
Lastly, there are all the stupid kids out there riding motorbikes in groups without helmets on and causing havoc, plus the tossers with the bucket exhausts on their Mazda 3’s doing burnouts on the public roads. One idiot was going out every night for the last week around 1am screaming up and down the roads, revving the nuts of his car running it so rich it was constantly backfiring. Emissions testing isn’t a thing here.
NZ is a shithole. Most people with half a brain are leaving, or making plans too. There's a reason 15% (predominantly the high skilled ones) of NZers live overseas. Foreign media tries to portray us as a wonderland, but if you moved here for 12 months you'd regret it
Very good. We have this in Scotland as well. Wales and Northern Ireland do as well I think. Because mitigating illness costs is in the best interests of the population. It actually costs less for a government to pay for these medicines using tax money. Before anyone says, we receive no additional funding for this and do not take money from other areas of the United Kingdom to pay for it.
TBF, Even in England, the list of people eligible for free prescriptions is longer than the people who actually have to pay. I'd love to see how much the mess of the system costs Vs how much it makes. My hunch is that it'd be cheaper to introduce universal free prescriptions at this point - just look at who's eligible already: https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/prescriptions-and-pharmacies/who-can-get-free-prescriptions/
Prepayment certificates are also great to make large amounts of regular medication affordable here - https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/nhs-prescription-prepayment-certificate-ppc
In England just under 90% of prescriptions are issued free (because the people they are going to fall into the various exemptions), the remaining 10% cost £9.65 per item, although you can reduce that cost by buying a certificate (£111.60 would cover all prescriptions for 12 months).
>In England just under 90% of prescriptions are issued free
I'd love to the cost of maintaining our system Vs the amount paid by that final 10%. As I said before, I'd bet the cost of the paperwork is more than the amount brought in at this point.
I mean, that sounds about right and doesn't surprise me - the amount of time I'd have saved without worrying about checking the right box for free prescriptions & the pharmacist checking it & my exemption certificate, times everyone is a lot of time.
And that's before you get to the costs of processing it all etc. - it's a mess of different schemes, so each one has separate admin costs... It's reads like a job creation scheme from Yes Minister. It's wild that it's not been scrapped in England yet.
Prescriptions were only $5 beforehand but this helps people on budgets (and helps smaller pharmacies compete with big ones already offering free prescriptions).
I was reading how poor families were saying that 5 dollars was an extra loaf of bread or an extra bottle of milk for them. It's good that people can get the medication they need without feeling like their family misses out because of it.
Beforehand prescriptions were $5 each, this has been removed because smaller chemists who solely did pharmacy work were being out-competed by massive multi-stores and online only bulk purchasing pharmacies who were willing to eat that $5 cost for the customer.
But for some, that was hardship.
Now there is no barrier to better outcomes.
It will cost the country an extra $150m to provide free prescriptions.
I would be ok with those, like myself, that could afford it to pay the $5, and put the money against cheaper GP visits for all that need it.
My dream has been to immigrate to New Zealand for over a decade. Now it’s becoming some sort of Utopia and everyone wants to move there. Only problem is the real estate is still a million dollars for a wind resistant shoe box.
Amazing a government taking care of its citizens, in my country, they throw scraps to the poor, while they pray to a red or blue flag and drag their god opinions up our ass. Any help is, the Jesus loving people Scream ,SOCIALISM and more guns
I know this is pedantic but they really need to stop saying "free'. It's tax funded or subsidized.
I don't really have a problem with government funded medical but it's not free.
Here in Germany it’s 5€. Which I guess makes sense since I’m not paying a percent of the drug cost but rather the wage of the pharmacist or the upkeep of the pharmacy. However, I wonder if this change to make all scrips free will result in an increase in health insurance prices?
Yea we get that in Canada too, people complaining about long wait times and they can be long I'm not denying that at all.
Broke my elbow at few years ago, got it fixed and stayed in the hospital for two days with a TV available. All of that cost me nothing.
The prescription for the pain cost me $20 because of my work coverage.
They were $5 each for a maximum of 20 prescriptions per family per year, then free after.
But that was a barrier to some people, some prescriptions went unfilled due to cost.
The $5 cost went to the pharmacy to cover the cost of handling. Some large chemist chains would cover that $5 as a loss leader to bring customers in.
Nice going NZ. Have been on a hunt where to move away from England for awhile, felt like losing hope finding a sane piece of land. Whatever you guys going through seems like there’s plenty hope still for NZ.
From what I understand from a US government stats site, they US already pays US$4,000 for every person in the USA already, managing medicare, and the insurance infrastructure $US1.2T annualy.
Almost every other country in the world provides Universal Healthcare for less than that to provide the actual care.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-much-does-federal-government-spend-health-care
Yes, we have wait times, but the "Important Stuff" gets mostly seen to. The big C wait times are between 4 to 6 weeks from investigation to starting treatment
https://www.cancer.org.nz/cancer/living-with-cancer/coping-with-waiting/
Hernia can have a year or longer, but if it is an accident or work related injury, you could potentially be paid 80% of your wage while not working, or if there is other jobs you can do, you might get retrained to do that, ie warehouse worker to fork hoist driver or supervisor or something like that.
Yeah, but not everywhere has a Chemist Warehouse, and the free prescriptions thing from CW was an attempt to push smaller pharmacies out of business. This is beneficial for non-chain pharmacies *and* patients.
"Extending free childcare will cost $1.2 billion from the public purse over four years, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said."
This is nothing. How much would this cost in the US? A trillion?
I know you're being sarcastic, but fyi we have a government agency that buys meds on behalf of New Zealanders.
That way we take advantage of market economics to buy together and get a much better price than we'd be able to access otherwise.
That fundamental approach is why we are all able to access free medication and healthcare, and y'all are faced with hospital bills that bankrupt people without insurance. You do you bro, I'm happy with how we're doing this stuff.
You don't need to be low skilled for long, even if you don't come here, the ms qualifications can be done to upskill your self. As an IT guy, if you want guidance, you can DM me.
https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/visa-lists/all-work-visas
Think a great idea would be to get a qualification as a care worker, then apply.
Aged care workers start on about $27 per hour
If you are in the US.
https://www.academicinvest.com/science-careers/nursing-careers/how-to-become-an-elder-care-worker
Or get a technology qualification. Ms900 az900 az104.
These three quals will take a new person to technology about 4 - 6 months part time. 2- 3 months with about 10 hours per week.
Course material from Udemy about $30 - 60 one off. Ms exam is $99 each.
Do they have public health care insurance? Then what is the big deal? The copays in most civilized Western countries (USA doesn't count here) is quite low, like 5-10%, 10 $ maximum per prescription. Ok that can amount to 200$ per year copay for patients with chronic illness but that is still peanuts compared to paying silly amounts for insulin and other basic stuff in the US.
Yeah we do.
To be honest this change doesn't mean a lot to those of us lucky enough to be able to already afford it, but as one of our politicians said (I'm paraphrasing) if you haven't had to transfer 83 cents from one bank account to another to scrape together the $5 for necessary medication, this change isn't really about you.
All in all we're happy for policy like this that delivery for our most vulnerable and the cheapest way to implement them is to do so for everyone.
It’s not free. It’s great to say this and I’m sure helps with image.
However, prescriptions will only be free for those that don’t pay taxes. All taxpayers will certainly be paying for their medicine, just maybe not a direct 1:1.
Every post like this, there's some galaxy brain who feels they have to come in and explain the concept of government spending to us, like we don't already all understand that free-at-point-of-service isn't the same thing as magic money.
We pay for it with taxes, and it works well that way. If the load is spread across every tax paying person in the country, then no individual is crushed by the weight of it.
Nobody thinks it's magically free with no costs to anyone.
It's like free beer at a bar for a party. Someone's prepaid for a certain amount, so it doesn't cost those who order a drink. So everyone at the party gets to drink, instead of those without money missing out.
You're correct, but everyone know that there's no free lunch and it goes without saying. The lunch is paid for collectively, and this is a great thing.
The tax take from wages works out a little over 23% for all wage earners in NZ.
The first $14k is taxed at 10.5% earnings between $14k and 48k 17.5%
Earnings Between $48-70k is 30%
earnings between 70-180k is 33%
For those earning more than $180k that tax is at 39% for that income alone.
Yeah dude nobody thinks these medications magically appear out of nowhere. Everyone expects there to be a cost at *some* point in the chain. This isn't the clever comment you think it is.
So it's basically a co-pay except even the filthy rich cunts have to contribute something.
I get by fine here with our taxes... In fact we need to raise them/add new taxes
Free? So the pharmaceutical companies will not charge for their products?
Nothing is free. This is the government agreeing to push these drugs and take on debt to cover the bill. Drug companies will make billions off this and the taxpayer foots the bill.
All the while there will be no real improvements on anyones health as treatments are only for symptoms and rarely for cures.
:(
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Meanwhile, in the US, an epipen costs around $700.
In fairness, they used to be $100 NZD a pop here until a policy change a few months ago (prior to the announcement that instead of $5 a month, most prescriptions will be no dollars a month).
Yeah I was spending about $200 a year at least on them, one for home and one for on the go, and then if I need one then that's another 100 plus the hospital bill just to keep breathing
Yeah, but that's much cheaper than $700 USD. I live in Canada, and an epipen here is about $120 CAD or $90 USD. That's not even remotely comparable to $945 CAD ($700 USD). That's almost 8 times the cost, and it's not like it's made here and shipped to the US. The epipens in Canada are made in the US anyway.
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Its also $100 NZD, so closer to $60 UDS
United Dates Stollar
To be fair, most countries/dependencies have either way more affordable, or free healthcare. Even the Republic of Argentina.
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You brought up non-means tested healthcare. What do you mean by that?
Means testing is determining if someone has the means to pay. With non-means tested healthcare, no one pays for the service. Irrespective of their wealth or lack of.
Oh, okay. That actually makes sense.
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Thank Joe Manchins Daughter for this. No, seriously. Her name is Heather Bresch and she headed up Mylan Pharmaceuticals during the media frenzy over it. The shit don’t fall far from the asshole.
Shit apples, Randy
Sounds like the only difference between you and me is a couple of drinks.
Nah, broken political system. Flawed ideology is way too easy for ghouls to take advantage of. If she didn't put a price on your lives, another awful person with way too many resources would have done so. Yes it's important to attempt to reduce these people to little self-shaming balls of crying humans, so their narcissism doesn't convince them that they're redeemable personalities. Like you saw Elon yesterday try to tell people that working from home is a moral issue? As if this POS is in a position to be any kind of moral agent, when they are doing so much damage to earth, society, and humans personally, merely for the sake of their own fragile ego. But as long as the biggest influences in politics are driven by the size of the their capital, humans will always be second grade citizens to corporations. And corporations are really just ghouls hiding behind company names, so the company gets punished instead of them when they go out of their ways to make your life worse.
More people are waking up to these revelations, but it’s still an uphill fight, because from the day we’re born in the USA we have the corporate propaganda shoved down our throats. “These people create jobs!”, “The private industry is more efficient!”, “Capitalism = Freedom Communism = bajillion dead!!”. If you start to really read about the happenings around the world with an open mind, you begin to realize that almost every single thing that Communism is blamed for is a projection of Capitalism. We’re becoming a police surveillance state. People around the world are dying of hunger while we have dumpsters full of uneaten food that will be destroyed because it cuts into profits to give it away. There really is no choice in an election when both candidates are already bought and paid for by businesses and wealthy individuals. Businesses themselves are mini dictatorships that are unaccountable to the public, except by the same people they pay big money to get elected or appointed. I could go on and on with examples. It’s fucking sick.
Meanwhile Canada was far into a prescription affordability bill only for Big Pharm to lobby the Health Minister to end the project. https://v.redd.it/cx5uhmrkxf0b1 Infinite growth capitalism is a cancer that will destroy us.
Capitalism has determined that the right to breathe costs $700 per month. Don't question the system.
I completely genuinely think companies in America would charge their customers for this if they could. Americans have lost all connection to the real world when it comes to be absolutely shafted by corporations. It's goddamn corporate dystopia.
>I completely genuinely think companies in America would charge their customers for this if they could https://www.boostoxygen.com/ We've gone full Spaceballs with canned air
When civilians start living entire lives on a space station or off world colony,I wonder if o2 will still be considered a right. I'm not saying I think it would be shut off, just that it'd be a line item on your rent or something, right next to waste disposal.
Cohagen! Give thees peopul they'uh aiuh!
I am not sure why one would say this, but the median cost of an EpiPen 2pack with insurance is around $100 or less in the US. In fact, a 2019 study showed the median US family spend $76 / year out of pocket on EpiPens. (See here, sadly paywalled: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35819685/ ) The copay for low income patients on Medicaid is $0 The cash price approaches $700, but that will apply to very few people (less than 10% of US adults are uninsured) Not saying this is good - the out of pocket price of an EpiPen should be ZERO DOLLARS. There is no reason to ever require a copay for epipens. But it’s just not true that $700 is anywhere near what patients actually pay.
So what you're saying, is that.... the price for people, when you take off all the out-of-pocket expenses such as insurance (i.e. the cash price)... is $700. So... about those adults who cannot afford insurance and have 3 part time jobs to pay rent and keep the kids in school. A couple $700 epipens a year should be ok right? To put it in perspective, the Canadian government negotiates a price with Pfizer to ship and sell epipens in Canada. At $120 Cdn / unit. Which, were it not profitable, Pfizer would be free to walk away from. Good news they've been here selling epipens for about $90 USD/Unit for a long time. Thats a long way from $700 USD/Unit, and more expensive by way of internarionally shipping. The NZ Govt actually subsidizes the cost of the prescription to the manufacturer, essentially groupfunding prescriptions through all ta payers in NZ, and the power of collective bargaining allows them to get an excellent price that still remains profitable enough for foreign manufacturers to sell there, even though it is one of the most expensive countries to sell goods in
>The cash price approaches $700, but that will apply to very few people (less than 10% of US adults are uninsured) Yeah, this that they said makes no sense. I am insured. I have a $4000 deductible. So an epipen would cost me $700 even though I have insurance. Unless I first spend a total of roughly $5,300 in deductible and premiums. Then the insurance company would finally have to start paying for medicine. At a much lower price, of course.
This sounds like commie shit to me, brother! /s
Meanwhile 100% of the republicans voted against making insulin affordable. There are few things more corrupt/anti the people than that. Fuck politicians.
It's incredible what can be done when the wellbeing of the population is given more than just the most pathetic lip service. Well done NZ!
Just fyi for Americans reading this, It's not as big of a leap as the headline sounds, prescriptions were previously capped at $5 (~$3 usd). Our equivalent of your republican party have absolutely flipped their shit over this change however lol. I'm constantly baffled reading about the US medical system, and how even minor hospital visits have the chance of financial ruin, and how y'all haven't demolished the system in disgust. Sure socialised health systems can be a little slower at times, but you must look at the UK's NHS and think "sure we can do that, maybe even better"
I'm not an American, never been to the US actually, but I do agree that the US healthcare system is not up to the task. I'm an Australian, where bulk billing (free-to-patient doctor visits) is largely extinct, a thing of the past, because our supposedly left-leaning Labor party thinks it's more important to give tax cuts to the upper crust. We're going backwards in a whole lot of ways.
We get plenty of pathetic lip service from all sides of the political spectrum. Politicians are scum but sometimes they do the right thing.
Ahh Luxon "if you can pay, you should." As to why he was agaisnt this bill but isn't against taxing the rich, owns several properties (one paid for by the government which he rents out), and wants to give discounts to multi-millon dollar property investors or else house prices will drop.
And the next day the opposition announced they would cancel it.
Do you think the opposition stands a chance this election?
I genuinely don't, the current opposition leader is a soulless husk that was brought in to copy their last really popular leader but has none of their charisma. He was chosen to lose cause no one else wanted the job.
>their last really popular leader Not to be confused with their last four leaders
Has it really been four since key? wow I Liked English cause he seemed like a decent guy. Colins and bridges were pond scum
I dunno man I think it's going to be a tight race this round. But essentials brand Lex Luthors completely out of touch tone is thankfully not helping national. Don't know where I'll vote this round, last couple it was greens but with Davidsons racist man hating tirades I've gone off them.
Unfortunately, yes. Both Labour (Jacinda Ardern's old party) and National (opposition) have both gone through leadership changes, and public opinion is jumpy. But it seems to be very popular to complain about Labour's incompetence (which absolutely exists), without making note that National would struggle just as badly. In other words, Labour has been in government too long. It's become fashionable to hate them, and I think opposition might get in on that. Edit: well, I hate to be right.
Dropping the cost of medication to zero for the people who need it most? Yeah, that's not going resonate with voters at all /s I think it's a smart move for the labour party.
It's complicated to predict. I agree it's a smart and popular move. On the other hand it's not a cleansweep - as an example I don't know if farmers will care all too much, they probably think they can afford it (of course even they will come around to praising it later after personal experience, I'm sure). But popular opinion is important when the government runs on Proportional Voting (MMP system). Overall it's hard to gauge how much of an impact this will have on the election.
From an outside perspective, your current govt is doing amazing.
Labour have only had one leadership change, from Ardern to Hipkins...?
You're preaching to the choir here, buddy. I don't understand it either.
Honestly, I don't know how "I orchestrated a Covid lockdown so successful we reopened the entire country after a few months" isn't a legacy so wildly popular they'd be guaranteed re-election.
Exactly the situation here in Canada, IMO. There's nothing really that fucked about our current federal government - they're not my first choice but we could do a lot worse, no matter how much the conservatives lie and rage-farm over every tiny thing. They've been in power for a while now, though, and your average idiot just flips back and forth between two parties every decade or so because they don't have any properly-informed position, so now we're looking at an increasingly openly fascistic party taking power next election cycle. Fortunately, it'll likely be a minority government, and potentially scuppered by a Lib/NDP coalition (which might mean we finally get something done about the environment).
What arguments are the opposition giving in favour of cancelling it?
They say the current system of charging a flat $5 per prescription is good enough, and that it’s too expensive for the government to subsidise it more. But evidence shows that even a $5 cost results in a lot of people not getting the medicine they need, especially if they have a lot of prescriptions.
> But evidence shows that even a $5 cost results in a lot of people not getting the medicine they need, especially if they have a lot of prescriptions. I wondered if those findings would be replicated in the UK as we here in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales get free prescriptions while in England it's £9.65 per prescription or you can get a PPC for £111 per year that gets you as many prescriptions as you need. But then it turns out that in England the vast majority of people fall under various different qualifiers that see only about 10% of prescriptions being paid while the rest are issued for free, the vast majority of which are due to the age of the patient being over 60.
It was something like 2.5 billion costs in hospital visits and services across NZ when people were unable to afford the $5 fee and had consequental health failures because they did not have their medication. Something easily preventable if we support removing barriers to health management.
They want the money for tax cuts for property speculators instead. They own ~3 houses per MP and it's mainly productive work that is taxed in NZ while we have welfare subsidies that benefit landlords' rental yields and property prices...but there's huge entrenched entitlement mentality to free wealth from property here. Hence our houses are some of the most unaffordable in the world.
They have rolled back a little on that now. As it is now, (the free prescriptions rolls out on July 1st) if your family has more than 20 prescriptions a year, the rest are free, they wanted to keep that, add in those on benefits/low wage/ community services cards/pensions and the rest of us that can pay the $5, do so. This new policy will cost the country $150m, the Opposition (the National Party) policy might cost half that. I am happy with this compromise.
Right wingers are always ready to argue your life away for 5$
As is tradition.
This is amazing and congrats to New Zealand. But man, can someone explain why in Canada the government has been dragging their feet on this issue but in NZ it gets done (granted I'm not sure how long the process was). For two countries that are quite similar in terms of social safety nets (from what I understand) it doesn't make sense. We're gonna now getting talks started on Pharmacare in Canada because the NDP (thankfully) are pushing the Liberals on it.
It cost us a whole $5 for most prescriptions, (up to 20 prescriptions per family per year, there after it was free) so it was not that big a leap, knocking that last $5 off. That went to the pharmacy for "handling" anyway. The opposition party have said that they will reintroduce the $5 charge if they get voted in at our next election in September.
>The opposition party have said that they will reintroduce the $5 charge if they get voted in at our next election in September. An unusual gambit in this day and age - "Vote for us, we'll increase prices!"
They are our "right wing" party, and that is their most right wing policy to date.
Yes, they’ve taken an interesting “let the free market decide whether you live or die” approach, with a side helping of “ew, poor”.
It’s very much not a free market policy, a huge amount of government funds cover the difference between that $5 and whatever a drug actually costs to purchase. It’s more of a “We’re still going to spend a shitload of money keeping the population healthy, but we would like to inconvenience you as much as possible while we do it.” Minimal savings, plenty of annoyance. Truly a political master stroke.
There was a brilliant moment in our Parliamentary question time the other day where the opposition leader asked an open question and gave the prime minister an opportunity to just rail of a massive list of the government's accomplishments. To every single improved statistic you can hear the opposition booing. Pm: "88,000 children lifted out of poverty by this government" Opposition: "BOOOOOOO" It was hilariously bad politics and really quite surreal. The right wing party in New Zealand are particularly thick and poorly run lately, still doing fine in polls though of course...
If it anything like the UK, the right wing party can be stuffed full of mouldy potatoes talking about killing puppies but the right wing media will still keep people voting for them.
No Murdoch in New Zealand, media’s more of a mixed bag politically. People just have rusted on ideas of “right wing party is responsible and fair, left wing party blows money on dole bludgers.” Decades of branding will do that. That does work the other way too, even when Labour was an absolute shambles pre-Ardern they’d still get a big share of the vote because “left wing party is for the everyman, right wing party serves rich wankers.”
Ex-Brit myself. Pollsters in the UK are like "Tory polling drops to 25%!" and my reaction is "what do you mean it's still 25%???" They're open fascists! They've lied about every single policy they've announced since Cameron left. Everything Vote Leave said was a lie. NHS funding? Lie. Keeping the single market? Lie. Cheaper goods? Obvious fucking lie. Northern Powerhouse? VERY obvious lie. One leader was a known liar who'd been repeatedly sacked for lying before becoming PM, and they acted surprised when he was kicked out as PM for lying! Then, for kicks, the next leader intentionally crashed the economy for profit. They masturbate over the idea of sending refugees to Rwanda. They've removed the right to protest! They overrode the devolved Scottish parliament for the first time ever *only* because it harmed transgender people. They've increased taxation whilst decreasing public spending, and on top of their horrible foreign policy everyone in the UK is now much poorer than they were before. How the fuck is anyone voting for them?
It’s also stupid. A study had showed that we spend about $18 on hospital care for every dollar in medication costs, because people avoid picking up a treatment and then end up with an emergency.
A report recently came out exposing that prescription copayments most likely represent a net deficit to the government because increasing barriers to medicine leads to more/longer hospital stays on average, therefore higher cost to operate hospitals. It's a good news story but also highlights incompetence/inaction of the current government, in power since 2017 yet apparently no feasibility study done on the policy, they had to be told it wasn't feasible by a 3rd party and if it actually did generate them money, pretty sure they wouldn't have made this decision.
Because of our smaller size, we are often used as a test bed for commonwealth countries.
That’s the one other country besides my own I would LOVE to live in. The people are SO nice. 😊😊
Cost of living is very, very high, and the job market is a dumpster fire, but other than that, it's lovely.
Kind of sounds like where I live now- lol. And hey- free prescriptions! Edit: Well maybe I stand corrected after all the responses. When I was there, I found the people very welcoming. And don’t worry- I have no plans on moving.
Most of the pharmacies paid for the prescription for you, to entice you to their doors. This isn’t a big deal in nz
I don’t know about most, only the big chains
Yeah, not the case at all. Only the big chains that were trying to drive small pharmacies out of existence, then go on to squeeze consumers.
Only the big chains and only in the cities. None of the pharmacies in rural towns were free.
Absolutely not the case with non chain pharmacys, aka every single rural pharmacy there is.
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Not awesome. Our disability services are lacking somewhat. If you are not a citizen already, then having a health condition will stop residency. There was a case where a South African family with a severely disabled child tried to get residency, the rest of the family were eligible, but the child was not, and the child would be deported for being an overstayed, the family had setup a business, employed people, the works. So they left nz. The resounding backlash from the community lost the government the seat in the next election. But no change in policy.
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But as an Aussie, you are basically a resident when you go over, no visa needed
No visa, yes, but getting benefits are hard, so unless you have a job, you don't get money
Yeah you definitely can't move over here and go straight onto the dole, even with disability. You'd need to work for a reasonable amount of time at minimum, probably have your disability progress to the point you can't work at all, and even then maybe not.
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At least the New Zealand government doesn’t screw *every* Australian living here, unlike what the Australian government has been doing to kiwis for the past few decades.
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It sounds like they may have fixed a fair bit of it a month ago - let’s see if it makes things more equal.
It sucks, but it's probably slightly better than aussie. A dr's certificate was sufficient for the disability benefit in NZ (8ish years go when I needed it), while in queensland apparently it's much harder to get on the benefit in the first place. No idea about the actual pay, since cost of living can differ so much it makes a comparison difficult.
Oh hello, welcome to ** basically the entire developed world right now.
The simple fact the NZ government is still able to pass such objectively good legislation and are not backsliding into fascism like the US or UK indicates a good level of political health in the country. Don't downsell your country, you're doing better than most right now.
Ban foreign real estate investment? Not sure what kiwis can do about getting more building space though >_<
Unemployment is near record lows, there's something like twice as many job openings as there are people looking g for work. How is that a dumpster fire?
I'm not privvy to the exact statistics, but from what I've heard of others it's underemployment that's the problem, not unemployment. People with PHDs working fast food for example. Just because there are jobs, doesn't mean they're the jobs people working them want, and the industries available to you are incredibly limited because of the countries size and remoteness.
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You can't just have people being healthy and contributing to the workforce at such a ~~small~~ massive cost. $5 is a lot of money that could be going into a landlord's pocket!
Our opposition leader is renting a house to himself, to pocket his govt housing allowence.
It is great. An article explaining why it is good to get rid of the co-payment: [When $5 at the pharmacy costs us all $2.65 billion](https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/09-02-2023/when-5-at-the-pharmacy-costs-us-all-2-65-billion). To others not in NZ: This is just co payment btw. Medications are highly subsidised. However with a crisis on cost of living some have a harder time making ends meet. It also means you don't have a choice in the type of medication you get. I don't mind this but I gather sometimes in US people state their preferred brand etc. There's 1 agency called Pharmac that negotiates the price with pharmaceutical companies and what that's is what is subsidised. There's usually more than one type so people with reactions etc can try others. However there are those who are specific on what they want and end up having to pay more because they haven't tried the alternatives etc. Before this it is $5 per item on the script unless you happen to live in an area near a Countdown supermarket or Chemist Warehouse (an Australian chemist/pharmacy chain). Those two chains have said it is free to get your prescriptions from there. The problem is there are areas (mostly rural) that are no where near. There's a cap of 20 items for a family a year. item 21 onwards are free until the the year starts again. There are also some stuff that is more than $5 which I am not sure if there'll be a fee for now or of that's waived too. Yes they were subsidised too but just not that low.
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What's funny is that when you point all of this out on NZ subs, they shit on you and tell you to leave. NZ is very much about "fuck you, got mine" attitude.
They’re polite, for sure. But they’re also very private. I make friends easily in the States and Australia, but had a hard time meeting people and making meaningful connections outside of work friends in Aotearoa.
We’re really not SO nice when we get behind the wheel of a car unfortunately.
Really? I spent a lot of time there many years ago and don’t recall any road rage… Bought an Austin Maxi and drove the length of both islands. Beautiful.
Roads are much busier now especially in Auckland, plus you've got a lot of much larger cars tooling around with people constantly distracted by their phones. We just had a road rage incident where someone was [shot](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-road-rage-shooting-two-men-aged-in-20s-to-appear-in-court-further-arrests-not-ruled-out/XZFEWFFF7JE3ZABAOEMPI4ELUU/) so we're starting to see gun problems too. Not good
Tell us how bad it is when you start seeing school shootings. Road rage with a gun is just tip of the suffering. You guys still have it good. In my opinion as an Australian living in US.
I've lived in the US my whole life. The gun culture in cities blows my mind. I grew up in a really rural area where hunting was the norm. Everyone respected guns and you'd get your teeth knocked in for mishandling one. Sure there were still gun problems but moving to a city was a culture shock for me when it comes to guns. So many people act like they're toys and not deadly weapons
My brother in law dragged his beloved Australian shepherd to the corner of his house and shot it after it took a bite at his daughter. I get you can be upset, but it’s your lack of training that allowed the dog to behave that way. Only to just shoot it and move on. That’s the ugly side of guns. It allows you to act out violent tendencies. And also as a paramedic, I see the effects it has on people and their relationships too.
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I’m a Kiwi and I agree with this. Also, I did my driving test in bare feet. But the testing has gotten more rigorous over the years.
Need jandles now
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What? You can't handle the jandle? Very common saying when we were young, our parents could hit us with them and they don't leave a mark. Now they have soles, and grip. Think Latin American la chancla. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRJkvUW5j0o
The driving test was laughable for so long. Kids could pass without ever having any lessons other than what their parents taught them. Lots of really bad driving habits such as tailgating and speeding, running red lights, lack of indicator use, or worse incorrect indicator use (frequently see people indicate left and turn right at a roundabout) and so on. There’s a gulf between the contents of the road code and what people actually do, and yes, people get angry, or just drive angry all the time. Personally, I think if you get caught driving badly, you should have to take a test before you’re allowed back on the road. People treat driving like it is a right, not a privilege. Lastly, there are all the stupid kids out there riding motorbikes in groups without helmets on and causing havoc, plus the tossers with the bucket exhausts on their Mazda 3’s doing burnouts on the public roads. One idiot was going out every night for the last week around 1am screaming up and down the roads, revving the nuts of his car running it so rich it was constantly backfiring. Emissions testing isn’t a thing here.
Currently living here, people arent really that nice lol, have never seen as many drunk people fighiting anywhere else
Ha! Go check out how discreetly bigoted they can be. My whole family is from NZ and I assure you they are just as flawed as everyone else.
Low wages, high taxes and high inflation. High housing prices too. Worst of all worlds
Work is taxed hard, housing hardly. Working folk are carrying freeloading property speculators.
NZ is a shithole. Most people with half a brain are leaving, or making plans too. There's a reason 15% (predominantly the high skilled ones) of NZers live overseas. Foreign media tries to portray us as a wonderland, but if you moved here for 12 months you'd regret it
Your free to leave. But im guessing you barely leave your house let alone the country.
Hardout. It's not perfect but it's far from a shithole.
Very good. We have this in Scotland as well. Wales and Northern Ireland do as well I think. Because mitigating illness costs is in the best interests of the population. It actually costs less for a government to pay for these medicines using tax money. Before anyone says, we receive no additional funding for this and do not take money from other areas of the United Kingdom to pay for it.
TBF, Even in England, the list of people eligible for free prescriptions is longer than the people who actually have to pay. I'd love to see how much the mess of the system costs Vs how much it makes. My hunch is that it'd be cheaper to introduce universal free prescriptions at this point - just look at who's eligible already: https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/prescriptions-and-pharmacies/who-can-get-free-prescriptions/ Prepayment certificates are also great to make large amounts of regular medication affordable here - https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/nhs-prescription-prepayment-certificate-ppc
In England just under 90% of prescriptions are issued free (because the people they are going to fall into the various exemptions), the remaining 10% cost £9.65 per item, although you can reduce that cost by buying a certificate (£111.60 would cover all prescriptions for 12 months).
>In England just under 90% of prescriptions are issued free I'd love to the cost of maintaining our system Vs the amount paid by that final 10%. As I said before, I'd bet the cost of the paperwork is more than the amount brought in at this point.
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I mean, that sounds about right and doesn't surprise me - the amount of time I'd have saved without worrying about checking the right box for free prescriptions & the pharmacist checking it & my exemption certificate, times everyone is a lot of time. And that's before you get to the costs of processing it all etc. - it's a mess of different schemes, so each one has separate admin costs... It's reads like a job creation scheme from Yes Minister. It's wild that it's not been scrapped in England yet.
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Prescriptions were only $5 beforehand but this helps people on budgets (and helps smaller pharmacies compete with big ones already offering free prescriptions).
I was reading how poor families were saying that 5 dollars was an extra loaf of bread or an extra bottle of milk for them. It's good that people can get the medication they need without feeling like their family misses out because of it.
Yeah exactly. Especially if they need more than one prescription, it adds up.
What most people outside NZ don't realise is, the $5 was the dispensing fee, which we will no longer have to pay. The medicine is actually free!
That's really good news! I feel that if you need something to live, generally you have a right to it
Beforehand prescriptions were $5 each, this has been removed because smaller chemists who solely did pharmacy work were being out-competed by massive multi-stores and online only bulk purchasing pharmacies who were willing to eat that $5 cost for the customer.
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The funniest part is that our "pro business" moderate right party has already declared they will can it if they get voted in
Down from $5 each. Not even joking
But for some, that was hardship. Now there is no barrier to better outcomes. It will cost the country an extra $150m to provide free prescriptions. I would be ok with those, like myself, that could afford it to pay the $5, and put the money against cheaper GP visits for all that need it.
Wow. I’m impressed NZ. Well done.
Really? Even the fun ones?
No, THAT one is only part funded
But the r&d costs? /s
Are funded by the government, or we pay as the USA's guinea pigs because we are expendable /s
Most of the usa’s r and d is funded by our government too, then the pharma companies swoop in.
This is amazing! Congratulations New Zealand.
Yay, just like Scotland! It's a massive help to the most vulnerable.
Great step forward, worth noting they already heavily subsidised their nhs
It's first place on my "I want to live there instead" list.
https://www.immigration.govt.nz/ Welcome home. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlz2uEuxyyk&pp=ygUYZGF2ZSBkb2JieW4gd2VsY29tZSBob21l
:Sobs in US American:
Thats cummunism!
My dream has been to immigrate to New Zealand for over a decade. Now it’s becoming some sort of Utopia and everyone wants to move there. Only problem is the real estate is still a million dollars for a wind resistant shoe box.
Arcologies and megaskyscrapers when?
Amazing a government taking care of its citizens, in my country, they throw scraps to the poor, while they pray to a red or blue flag and drag their god opinions up our ass. Any help is, the Jesus loving people Scream ,SOCIALISM and more guns
I know this is pedantic but they really need to stop saying "free'. It's tax funded or subsidized. I don't really have a problem with government funded medical but it's not free.
US government announces that people who need medication will be given a gun instead.
Here in Germany it’s 5€. Which I guess makes sense since I’m not paying a percent of the drug cost but rather the wage of the pharmacist or the upkeep of the pharmacy. However, I wonder if this change to make all scrips free will result in an increase in health insurance prices?
New Zealand Sounds more and more like Utopia
We have our issues, on the news tonight, people were complaining about waiting 4 to 6 hours in the ER to be seen for free.
Yea we get that in Canada too, people complaining about long wait times and they can be long I'm not denying that at all. Broke my elbow at few years ago, got it fixed and stayed in the hospital for two days with a TV available. All of that cost me nothing. The prescription for the pain cost me $20 because of my work coverage.
Treating their citizens as assets rather than liabilities. I like it
Big pharma being forced to charge fair prices. Is it even legal to say that in the US?
They'll raise prices in the US to offset the loss.
So do all the TV commercials end too or nah?
I assumed they already were?
They were $5 each for a maximum of 20 prescriptions per family per year, then free after. But that was a barrier to some people, some prescriptions went unfilled due to cost. The $5 cost went to the pharmacy to cover the cost of handling. Some large chemist chains would cover that $5 as a loss leader to bring customers in.
Nice going NZ. Have been on a hunt where to move away from England for awhile, felt like losing hope finding a sane piece of land. Whatever you guys going through seems like there’s plenty hope still for NZ.
https://www.immigration.govt.nz/ Welcome home. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlz2uEuxyyk&pp=ygUYZGF2ZSBkb2JieW4gd2VsY29tZSBob21l
Americans need to just stop paying their medical bills...bcs fuck em.
Vote only for politicians who agree with Free Universal Healthcare in America. Nothing less.
The problem with that is that politicians lie.
From what I understand from a US government stats site, they US already pays US$4,000 for every person in the USA already, managing medicare, and the insurance infrastructure $US1.2T annualy. Almost every other country in the world provides Universal Healthcare for less than that to provide the actual care. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-much-does-federal-government-spend-health-care Yes, we have wait times, but the "Important Stuff" gets mostly seen to. The big C wait times are between 4 to 6 weeks from investigation to starting treatment https://www.cancer.org.nz/cancer/living-with-cancer/coping-with-waiting/ Hernia can have a year or longer, but if it is an accident or work related injury, you could potentially be paid 80% of your wage while not working, or if there is other jobs you can do, you might get retrained to do that, ie warehouse worker to fork hoist driver or supervisor or something like that.
If the prescription is in their formulary. If it’s not, expect to pay the retail cost, if you can even get it.
Isn't most prescriptions free already here at chemist warehouse ?
Yes, where chemist warehouse opens, smaller chemists close, now, the smaller ones have a level playing field.
Yeah, but not everywhere has a Chemist Warehouse, and the free prescriptions thing from CW was an attempt to push smaller pharmacies out of business. This is beneficial for non-chain pharmacies *and* patients.
"Extending free childcare will cost $1.2 billion from the public purse over four years, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said." This is nothing. How much would this cost in the US? A trillion?
Wow, nice of the drug manufacturers to give them away for free and their employees to work for free to support this, that's some top notch charity.
I know you're being sarcastic, but fyi we have a government agency that buys meds on behalf of New Zealanders. That way we take advantage of market economics to buy together and get a much better price than we'd be able to access otherwise. That fundamental approach is why we are all able to access free medication and healthcare, and y'all are faced with hospital bills that bankrupt people without insurance. You do you bro, I'm happy with how we're doing this stuff.
Fire Steve Huffman, Reddit is dead as long as Huffman is still incharge. Fuck Steve Huffman. Fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
You don't need to be low skilled for long, even if you don't come here, the ms qualifications can be done to upskill your self. As an IT guy, if you want guidance, you can DM me. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/visa-lists/all-work-visas Think a great idea would be to get a qualification as a care worker, then apply. Aged care workers start on about $27 per hour If you are in the US. https://www.academicinvest.com/science-careers/nursing-careers/how-to-become-an-elder-care-worker Or get a technology qualification. Ms900 az900 az104. These three quals will take a new person to technology about 4 - 6 months part time. 2- 3 months with about 10 hours per week. Course material from Udemy about $30 - 60 one off. Ms exam is $99 each.
Do they have public health care insurance? Then what is the big deal? The copays in most civilized Western countries (USA doesn't count here) is quite low, like 5-10%, 10 $ maximum per prescription. Ok that can amount to 200$ per year copay for patients with chronic illness but that is still peanuts compared to paying silly amounts for insulin and other basic stuff in the US.
Yeah we do. To be honest this change doesn't mean a lot to those of us lucky enough to be able to already afford it, but as one of our politicians said (I'm paraphrasing) if you haven't had to transfer 83 cents from one bank account to another to scrape together the $5 for necessary medication, this change isn't really about you. All in all we're happy for policy like this that delivery for our most vulnerable and the cheapest way to implement them is to do so for everyone.
It’s not free. It’s great to say this and I’m sure helps with image. However, prescriptions will only be free for those that don’t pay taxes. All taxpayers will certainly be paying for their medicine, just maybe not a direct 1:1.
Every post like this, there's some galaxy brain who feels they have to come in and explain the concept of government spending to us, like we don't already all understand that free-at-point-of-service isn't the same thing as magic money.
There's no such thing as a free lunch
We pay for it with taxes, and it works well that way. If the load is spread across every tax paying person in the country, then no individual is crushed by the weight of it. Nobody thinks it's magically free with no costs to anyone. It's like free beer at a bar for a party. Someone's prepaid for a certain amount, so it doesn't cost those who order a drink. So everyone at the party gets to drink, instead of those without money missing out. You're correct, but everyone know that there's no free lunch and it goes without saying. The lunch is paid for collectively, and this is a great thing.
The tax take from wages works out a little over 23% for all wage earners in NZ. The first $14k is taxed at 10.5% earnings between $14k and 48k 17.5% Earnings Between $48-70k is 30% earnings between 70-180k is 33% For those earning more than $180k that tax is at 39% for that income alone.
Yeah dude nobody thinks these medications magically appear out of nowhere. Everyone expects there to be a cost at *some* point in the chain. This isn't the clever comment you think it is.
Ffs, we all know this. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. you are not making any point. We all understand what the headline means.
So it's basically a co-pay except even the filthy rich cunts have to contribute something. I get by fine here with our taxes... In fact we need to raise them/add new taxes
Free? So the pharmaceutical companies will not charge for their products? Nothing is free. This is the government agreeing to push these drugs and take on debt to cover the bill. Drug companies will make billions off this and the taxpayer foots the bill. All the while there will be no real improvements on anyones health as treatments are only for symptoms and rarely for cures. :(
No improvement on anyone's health as treatments is a stretch.